012 – Selling A Service Based Business with Doug Dibert

Josh 0:16
Hey, everybody, welcome to episode 12. This is an interview with a local colleague of mine, Doug Dibert, he has done something that a lot of people aspire to do. And it might be something that you are interested in one day, or maybe you’re just curious about, and that is selling your business. Or more specifically, in this case, we’re going to talk about selling a service based business because that’s exactly what Doug did. He had a videography business that he ran for years. And then he had an idea for a product, a SaaS product, a service as a software subscription product. And that really picked up some traction. And he was able to sell his service based video business and transition to running this app this product full time. And it’s called magnify, it’s actually the tool that I use to capture all my video testimonials. And it’s interesting because Doug and I have been colleagues for a long time, we’ve actually worked with each other for years I did, I was kind of his trusted web guy. And he was my trusted video guy.

Josh 1:17
So we were passing referrals back to each other for years. And then again, more recently, he actually sold his business. And then I became a customer of his with magnify as I use it. And then he actually hired me originally to design the site. And we still do some maintenance and things for himself.

That’s been our relationship. And this talk, we actually get into the weeds of selling that business because I for one was very curious about what that looked like like the mindset, the ins and outs of selling a business, you’re going to hear all about that you’re going to learn some really practical things to look out for if you’re interested in selling your business, you’re going to hear about some things that you should definitely do if you want to eventually pivot yourself to be able to sell your business. And you’re also going to hear some things some some kind of lessons learned that Doug is very real and transparent about that I know are going to be super valuable.

So if you’re interested in selling your business, you are going to love this episode, even if you’re not to that point yet, or you’re not even thinking about selling your business. But maybe it’s just something you want to learn about that way if one day, the time comes where you can sell your business, you have a reference point, this is going to be a great episode for you. Before we dive in this episode is brought to you by my web design business course. Since we’re talking about selling a business in this episode, my business course will be the best opportunity for you to be able to learn how to start, build and successfully grow your web design business.

And it’s based off of everything that I’ve learned and my decade of experience up to this point with building and running a successful six figure web design business. We cover everything, all the ins and outs from start to finish with this course from proposals, contracts, invoices, project management, collecting content, revisions, feedback, client relationship. I mean, everything that is involved in a web design project from the business side of things is covered in this course, I also offer a what I like to call my client roadmap, which is a checklist from start to finish, from when a person becomes a new lead to be in a client to the whole project management process on the client side, to handling revisions to off boarding and all sorts of things.

And it will be a checklist that you can use because if you are going to want to sell your business one day, things have to be documented. Things have to be very organized and you need to have some solid systems and processes in place. And that’s exactly what my web design business course will provide for you. So check that out, if interested. Alright guys, enjoy my interview with my colleague, Doug diver on how he sold his service business. Cheers. Enjoy.

Doug, welcome to the show, man.

Doug 3:56
Well, thanks for having me, Mr. Josh Hall and hello to all though the let’s see. Josh Hall co the Joshua holics. I guess I haven’t heard that. Josh, the Joshua holics. Man,

Josh 4:10
You may have come up with an unsettling new term for my following.

Doug 4:17
A little Yeah, a little Yeah. Josh Hall Co.

Josh 4:21
Well, I tell you what, man, this podcast is has been a welcome and cool addition to somebody left a review and said the podcast, they love it, adding it to the Josh mix with tutorials and blogs and everything else. But I’ve had a really fun time doing it so far. And I’m really excited about talking with you right now. Because we talked about this before even I even launched my podcast I said, I want to have you on and talk about what you’re doing right now because you did something that a lot of web designers are probably interested in or maybe they’re just curious about, which is selling a service based business.

So you’re running magnify your doing which is more of an app based business right now, which I know we’re going to talk about. But let’s let’s just get right into it, man. Yeah, crossing river studios, your, your previous company that you sold. Tell us about that. And then, like, Did you did you set out knowing you wanted to sell that one day? Or what happened there?

Doug 5:17
No. So like, so I started crossing river Studios back in January 5 2005. And took on way too much debt too. Because to me, it’s a it was is a crossover studio was a video producing video marketing agency, right. So produce videos for clients, but then also show them how to bring those videos into the real world. Right? So, and cerana for a long time, and I eventually wanted to make feature films. But eventually what I want to do is get into filmmaking. And I have a bachelor’s in film minor in theater. So that’s kind of the path I wanted to go to. And so it really originally kind of changed for me when I decided I wanted to get a business coach.

Right. So like, because I had reached a level, in my, in my business where it was just, it was just kind of me, right? I am sure a lot of your your listeners can relate, right? It’s just them, right? And I’m like, Okay, I’ve plateaued and what I can do myself. And in order to go to the next level, you you don’t know what you don’t know. Right? So hiring that business coach really helped me expand my mindset. Right? Because that’s the biggest thing that holds any business owner back is just mindset. And getting that business owner mindset, not a not business practitioner, right, you know, you have, you can do all this stuff yourself, right, and you’re the best person at doing it. And my business coach really helped me, um, expand my mindset to find people that are better than me at specific aspects of the business. So hiring somebody that or in my case, we we didn’t have any employee, there’s all contract people. And because for me, I found that the the MySpace was not the MySpace app, but it might be yours.

Yeah, it MySpace, um, the most talented people are the kind of working for themselves. And so by the guy who I hired to do a lot of the higher end filming, and study director photography in London, and super good, like, blows me out of the water. And guy that I hired to do. Editing or animation and graphics, when to bind crossover. That’s, you know, the point that story, but I hired him to do all that stuff, right? Because it could I sit there fiddle with it for forever. It takes me like 16 hours, you know, two days just trying to do one thing where you can just go boop, boop done, right? So, um, I got to the point where I was, like, I said, my business coach, I said, you know, I could care less if I could, if I ever made a video again in my entire life.

Because I liked really like the sort of like the business aspect of it, helping clients develop that strategy, helped them create the, the outlay for what the video would look like, and then have the team to piece it all together. And maybe your your, the people that are listening or watching right now are in that boat, right? Where maybe they’re, they’re good at the laying out of the site, right. But when it comes to specific styling, or becomes to copywriting or if it comes to branding, there’s other people that are more talented than you to put that together. Right? Because I guarantee you are not the best person in the world to create that Divi platform to create,

Josh 9:01
Or to do or to do every role on the business.

Doug 9:05
Right. And then that is it’s it’s a weird mindset to shift over right to admit that somebody is better than you at doing that. That the the Divi platform the putting that site together, right. And that’s the first step to realizing to getting out and getting yourself out of the business. Right. So I bought that team together. And so for me, I was always looking at the future of where video was heading. Right. So maybe it could be what where’s the future of, of your website? Business? Where’s the design business is going right? Do you do you want to sell this or do you want to get to the point to where you have that team in place, and you’re not having to worry about the day to day you’re more strategic you’re you’re going to networking events, you’re your business strategic partnerships with other companies to bring in more additional website design work, right? Building, you move from practitioner to building those sales funnels, including.

Josh 10:11
From working in the business to working on the business.

Doug 10:14
That’s exactly yeah, yep. You’re you’re hiring somebody that’s better that doing the the coding for the site, that’s better than writing the copy that’s better than then you the finding the right images and doing the exact stuff right there. You’re not to go between, you know, anymore, right? You’re, you’re the you’re the you’re working on the business as opposed to in it. So I started, I got the idea for magnifying just kind of driving down the road and to out of town client. And because again, I like the business aspect versus going to shoot stuff and edit stuff. I could care less about that stuff. And maybe your listeners want to listen to at that point or like yeah, man, I could. Gosh, if I don’t have to deal with another, another quick.

Another quick tweet, or tweet to a site? Yes. And air quotes there. Yeah, we as you know, you and I have gone back and forth Thunderbird, quick tweets, and it quickly expand into other things. That same thing with video rights. Very similar, right, you know, quick tip, can’t you just do this real fast? And do this? Oh, yeah, we can just magically wave the wand over it and instantly gets done, right. They don’t realize all the the painstaking editing or you guys the painstaking coding and things like that to make it look nice on mobile, on desktop, on tablet, on Firefox on Chrome on safari and all that kind of stuff. Right? Which I know a lot of now, since I’m kind of in that world, right? And so I think I lost my

Josh 11:47
Well, you were talking about like, once you get to that point, what it’s, I like what you’re doing, because you’re setting up for, like what to do in that that situation. And I talked about this in my business course, which is you get to a point as a freelancer as a one man or one woman shop, where if you’re cool with doing that, and content with that, that’s fine. But eventually, and that was the same way with me. And it same way with you. It sounds like it sounds like you enjoyed that work for a while. But then you get to a point where something changes, something shifts. And for me, it was that same thing, I realized I wanted to be the business owner.

And oddly enough, that’s when I did the business coaching plan, which we went through the same company action coach, you’re at a different tier, a higher level, but that’s what helped me become a business owner. Same as you. So yeah, that was a good, you know, good, good start there to talk about, you know, you get to the point, because if you’re gonna sell a business, you have to do that. So yeah, continue. I didn’t mean to derail us.

Doug 12:41
You’re absolutely right. Yeah. It’s, it’s so it’s really that tipping point is, is, is that craving to get more knowledge? Because again, you don’t know what you don’t know. So learning from somebody else that has done it knows how to structure it for you. So you can step out of it a little bit more, right? Even if 50% More like how much would your mobile your life open up to other possibilities? Cuz that’s what happened to me was that yeah, I was, I still did a little some editing and some shooting, but I had my team working on their stuff, which opened my open the doors to start magnified.

Josh 13:18
How long did real quick how long? Did you do it yourself? What do you was it about a decade or so?

Doug 13:25
Yes, for myself, I’m probably around. Let’s see, I started oh, five. And I sold it two years ago. So 12 oscillators that are.

Josh 13:40
So yeah. Yeah. Over the well over a decade by itself.

Doug 13:43
Over a decade. Yeah. And because again, that’s that’s kind of how I thought I wanted to live my life. That’s is great videos. And again, got that point, I was like it’s it. It’s time for it’s time for a change. It’s you’re doing your own self a disservice by doing it all yourself. Because, you know, God forbid something happened to you. Right? You know, who’s gonna keep the business going? You know, you really haven’t. You’re working for yourself air quotes, but you really just created a job for yourself with lots of bosses.

Josh 14:16
Oh, that’s a great point, man. That’s Oh, that’s so true. Yeah, that’s something I tell my students all the time like, you really have to be careful of putting yourself in a vulnerable position, making a job that you don’t like, because that can be very, very well happen if you’re not careful about all that now. So you you had the idea for magnify this awesome video testimonial capturing platform, which is what I use for all my video testimonials. Yeah, you had that while you were on a way to a client. You mentioned you were driving and had that idea. Now, had you already gone through business coaching to that point, or did that come first?

Doug 14:50
So yeah, so I was doing business coaching. I had a business coach, while I still have one up too. So it’s been like, what, four years now? Okay, so that first year, she really helped me get to the point that it gets to that point right to have to build that team, which opened up more freedom to pursue other business opportunities. Right. And I have that. That entrepreneurial mindset, right, I like to start other businesses, and I’ve done a few things before that didn’t work out. Um, and magnify started to take off. And I’m like, Man, this is where we really want to go. And I wonder if it’s right time to sell it. And that’s kind of where that started to happen. Right was was magnify, I was doing magnify. So we magnify and crossmember at the same time for about up to about a year. So doing both, and that was definitely very busy. But again, so the team that I had in place was helping take a lot of that load off. So I gave, you know, work on magnify stuff and pitch it to clients and, and use it as a tool to, to, you know, to grow, and it started getting legs. And yeah.

Josh 16:11
And it’s interesting, because we’re in a similar boat to where, like, I’ve scaled my business to where I’m not doing really any design work anymore coding, and I’m working on more of the proposals, client facing stuff, project management, things like that. It sounds like you did the same. And what’s great about that is as you get yourself out of those in the roles of the business and work on the business, yeah, that will leave you that will open up some time. I mean, thank goodness, you did some of that business coaching and freed yourself up when magnify, you know, when it came along, because one of magnify happened four years earlier, when you were doing everything with crossing river, it probably would have taken a lot longer to get where you are now. Or maybe it just would have fizzled out because you didn’t have time.

Doug 16:53
Exactly. So I would say the time thing, right? For sure. So, because yeah, I mean, we can I can go off in our subject. But uh, so yeah, so So what’s what do you want to know what net? Well,

Josh 17:08
I’m, I’m curious about? Like, how long did it take you to sell the business? From when you thought about it? Was it like, did you really have to be intentional about setting up your internal systems, documenting things, getting your client information numbers? And like, how long? Yeah, how? I guess that’s the question How long before you were like, I might want to sell this to I sold it?

Doug 17:30
Yeah, so it was really it was like probably three, four months, it wasn’t a very long process. Um, I was very, very lucky, lucky, blessed and fortunate to have someone who was already working for me, I’m be interested in buying the business. And it was a perfect transition. Right. And so what I did, so I knew that I wanted to get to that point, right. So I had obviously systems in place and things like that. But what I also did, especially with a service based businesses, I have contracts in place, and okay, all pipelines so that when someone they bought the business, they also they paid the sum to purchase the business, but then they also knew they had they had contracts in place that income, that accounts receivable on the way.

So that helped with transition, right? You know, I plugged that person in, to help out with it with those specific projects. So they got to know that person got to learn about that person. And we, obviously for those clients, right, we didn’t say, hey, this person owns the company now, I’m just kind of flying, you know, with them, it was more like they got brought up as a partner, so to speak. Okay. So that way, there was no that way the person that was buying the business wasn’t kind of getting like cut off, right? Because they can, because I wanted to make sure it wasn’t like, Hey, we’re working with Doug, we don’t want to work with this new guy. We’re not familiar with him.

So we that’s how we transition it was I was I worked with him on a few projects, even after the company sold just to help him with that transition. And then obviously, he has my number like he can call me and text me if he has any questions, I would say, I want to see him take it to a level that I could never take it to.

Josh 19:18
Gotcha. That’s really valuable advice. So you essentially groomed him and kind of brought him in as a partner. Got him familiar with all your current clients, or all the projects were going on. And then as the transition happened that way, it wasn’t like, you know, they reached out to Doug. And this guy named Nathan pops up and says, Oh, by the way, Doug’s disappeared and sold the business on the new guy. They’d be like, What the heck? Yeah. Right. Yeah. I mean, I think that’s good that you were very intentional about that.

And your client focus with that because yeah, yeah. And they Nathan’s actually, I hired him to do the intro and outro for this podcast for the video. And yeah, he’s doing a great job. And yeah, like to your point I can tell he’s a stickler Old craftsman with video like that. And you are I’ve known you for a long time Doug, you are the idea guy you are an entrepreneur, through and through. So I’m sure that you are killing yourself for over a decade having all these ideas that could never, you know happen before why you were running the day to day your business.

Doug 20:18
For the mindset now of letting smarter people do stuff. So but yeah, but I knew for sure, like, whether it was him or was somebody else, I knew that to get somebody interested in buying the business was showing, you know, three years of what we what was earn over the over the course of three years legacy that steady growth, okay, but also having a good we had a good three to six months worth of clients and income coming in a pipeline that was nice and filled. Right? Because if they’re looking at your business to buy, they’re gonna see the, they’re gonna see all the clients that you have are currently working on, right? They don’t want to get a a business that has nothing happening within that to start from scratch. Because what’s the point of buying your business?

Josh 21:07
Right? Did you guys have any recurring income? Because I know video is primarily project a project? Did you have any contracts that were either recurring or maybe like to your point like, like several months in advance, then is that how that worked? Yes.

Doug 21:21
So like, typically when we take a client, right, so there, they would split their payments out over the course of you know, three months or four months on a project, right? Because they’re larger, some larger some funds and some would pay you know, a front some would pay half and half so just what are we kind of worked out so but as far as reoccurring income over the course of a year? No. It was definitely in quarterly usually is about in quarterly chunks. Right?

So you got a project they split that out over the course of three months, then you’re filling that pipeline up right? So when you’re going out and prospecting right but so he had all those tools and, and systems in place, you just have to kind of follow it. So really, if you’re going to tee up your your company to sell especially if you’re a one person practitioner, right, you’re gonna definitely want to have to want to bring them on as that as that partner right so they can learn your clients get to know that person and then that’s that transition happens really nice and really easily because then because one of your clients maybe will reach out to you at for a question and more high level you can defer you know, hey, you know, this person is now in charge of this certain aspect you definitely want to get a hold of that. Yeah, that’s a little scary at first because they’re gonna stop or they’ll they’ll go oh, okay, cool. Yeah. Oh, no message him, so.

Josh 22:44
So Is it is it safe to say that you transitioned yourself to more of like a consultant role when you sold it to make sure things were running smoothly? And are you still doing any of that? Or are you pretty hands off with it?

Doug 22:55
Yeah, it’s it’s it’s been a it’s well it’s it’s been just over a year so yeah, it’s pretty hands off he’s kind of running running and doing his own thing and it was pretty much that way for you know, for Riot to kind of get go so um, he he definitely took it in RAM but he’s always come back obviously for advice and things like that, which I’m more than happy to give right? Because I’ve known him for a long time and.

Josh 23:20
And bought your baby it’s kind of it’s probably we I can’t imagine the feeling of like, it was only for so long and then like, holy crap, it’s not mine anymore.

Doug 23:28
It was very that part was very weird getting the sitting at the the attorney’s office you know, you’re signing the documents and then you know, you get that check and I went and set my car I’m like, This is really weird. You know, I’m not gonna do this anymore. And magnify is it hope this thing works out?

Josh 23:51
Yeah, yeah. I mean, you went for a man magnify was only what a year old when you went full time with it.

Doug 23:56
Yeah, magnify. So I was doing both. So like I was so magnifies just over two years old. And so I’ve just been working in magnify full time for just over a year, except is I sold in August of last year. And I took, you know, three weeks off after the summer rest of the summer off to just have fun and play with the kids and think about the next steps for magnifying and hit it hard in September. So it’s definitely been a a amazing growth over the past year. And I will tell you, if you’re going to if you’re going from one business to another, there’s one thing I wish I would have done first, but hindsight is always 2020 Whichever i Listen, this podcast is magnified.

So I chose to reinvest all the money that magnify has made to the company and that way the company has zero debt, which is putting us in a really awesome position for the new version of magnify, we’re calling magnify plus and so Which it’s allowed us to give a really cool price point that makes it really affordable for somebody to have to utilize magnifier to get, you know, unlimited video testimonials branded video content, case study video functionality, which is setting them three questions they answer those three questions on video, the platform produces a video without having to have any experience producing or editing a video, then the other one that people are really loving is video, email, send a video email out. So but it’s a lot of supposition that price point really affordably. And I was..

Josh 25:35
All due to that was all due to you. Basically, you know, saving the money from you selling the business using that as living expenses. I imagined it and investing, reinvesting the profits of magnifying into the business to keep it going.

Doug 25:49
Yep. So I lived, I lived off the sale of that company. So I can take all the money I’m making off name if I reinvesting it back to the to the company. So we have no debt. But I wish I would have made sure to establish another income stream if it’s just consulting. Right. But at like consulting and video projects, which is what I do a lot of now, so I do the do I do video marketing consulting for clients that either want to leverage magnify, or if they want to produce a video that’s higher end, that man if I can do I do those as well. And then I utilize the guy who bought a crossing river to help make those videos because I don’t want to do that anymore.

Josh 26:30
Yeah. And how cool is that, though, that you started a new business in the same realm. Like it’s different because with magnify, it is an app, it’s a service, or it’s a subscription based platform software as a service SaaS, but it’s still like you can utilize your old business when those opportunities come, which I think is super cool. Now, one question I had, because I think that was a super important valuable tip was, you basically made enough to live off for a while with the sale of your old business, the sale of your old business, and you were reinvest. Because magnify, let’s be honest, I know it was not cheap to start that you you develop a custom software, it’s not like you built something off of tools that were already there, you had the idea. And I know all this because I built the Magnify site. And I’ve been very involved. I’ve seen the the ins and outs of it.

But I know that you had the idea of like this custom software, and then we got you know, you paired up with someone here locally who developed it custom, that ain’t no cheap thing that is a investment. Yeah, one of my questions is because I don’t want to I don’t want to lose this, cuz I think this is great. Did you have a number, like when you thought about selling your business, and we don’t have to talk about actual numbers, but like, how did you come up? Like, did you just think, Okay, this is what I think the company is worth and what it could make over the next couple years? Is that how you came up with a number to sell it?

Doug 27:54
Yeah, yeah, yeah, roughly. So I came up with a like a, whatever it made it typically in a year, I times that by three. Right. So I had a number in mind that I wanted for it. And um, that’s in I told the person that was interested in buying that’s kind of number that I’m looking at. And it was a little less than what I originally was going to go for. But I thought, one He’s perfect for it. And in two, it’s like, I don’t have to if he’s, if he’s interested in wanting it, then I’m not. I don’t have to try to go out find a broker because he got like a business broker. They’re going to take a percentage of that anyway. Sure. Right. So yeah, I mean, like I said, I was very blessed and fortunate to, to be in that position. And the guy has the same heart for video and filmmaking that I had when I first started crossing over. So it’s literally it was a perfect transition.

Josh 28:57
That’s cool. So if so whatever you made, you know, the the recent year times three, that’s Yeah, yeah. Now was that to give yourself a buffer as well, just in case magnified, didn’t make any money that you’re like, I could fall back on that. And then, you know, does that because you have you have four kids, you have a family? And yeah, there’s a lot of responsibility. It’s not like you were young, and you could just, you know, you didn’t have any responsibilities, like Yeah, family.

Doug 29:21
For mac and cheese, and whatever, right is a single person, but yes, yeah, that was it. Was that right? So I knew I could, at least if I was conservative, could live off it for at least a couple of years. Um, but I mean, I went, I went paying off some stuff. And you know, it’s amazing how quick it goes.

Josh 29:39
Well, I appreciate you mentioning that because I wanted to ask you about that. And our networking group. You mentioned that it was a couple months ago, that lesson learned with that was that you need to be careful with that, even though it’s a big sum. It can go pretty quick if you’re paying off debts or whatever. Yeah. Is that kind of something you learned?

Doug 29:57
So I had more of a steady cash flow right? cuz like, I mean, my my so my mind is the platform is gonna take off, you know, quicker than I thought it would. And it did take off quick. But again, I chose to put all that money back into the platform instead of taking it a bank loan. Right? So I’m not I’m not beholden to a bank for the making that that payment, right, I did that when I first started crossing over, then I had this giant payment that was hanging over my head that I had to hit every month. Right.

Josh 30:28
Gotcha. And with magnify, are you making money from it? Now? Are you finally at the place where you’re,

Doug 30:35
I’m reinvesting it back into there. Right. So but yeah, I mean, the platform itself is I mean, definitely, it’s been self, it’s been self sustaining since day one. It’s just we started off with, if you’re thinking about doing your business, we started off with the MVP, the minimum viable product. So if you have an idea for a new business, you know, think about what is the MVP? What is the bare bones, minimum viable product, that or service offer you can offer just to see how it does in the marketplace. And when when we you were one of the first people to hop on to the beta test, magnify and all that stuff. And then when the first month, we had like, 3040, people sign up for the platform, which is really cool.

So then, two months after we launched, we had people sending themselves requests for video testimonials. And we’re producing videos other than video testimonials, which is where that branded video functionality came into play. So people can film their own branded video content. So we really let we let the the users dictate what they wanted in the platform, which is what birth case study video functionality in video, email. That’s cool. But you really let let the customer the user dictate it because it’s the other way around, say, Hey, I’m gonna make this product and I’m gonna make everybody buy it. Right? What’s the MVP, see what the the customer will do with it? And then change it to where change and morph into what they want what they’re gonna spend money on?

Josh 32:10
That’s cool. Yeah, cuz I’ve seen you make those changes with magnify to where it went from just a video testimonial capture platform to like said case studies. Now you’re looking at video email, which is a super, super cool feature, I’ll definitely take advantage of that, like sex it. Yeah, there’s all these like really cool. Not manipulations, but just additions and revamps, you’ve done that business. But it’s iterations. Yeah, but it’s still stayed like, despite all those changes, it’s still at the heart. It’s easily capturing a video, however, however you want to do that.

Now, I’m interested to, I’m sure we’ll talk about the difference between the two business types, because that was dramatically different from service to software as a service business to a product style business. But did you like when you were going through these changes, because you you changed pricing around a little bit subscription to like buy in bulk options? Did you did you almost have to get a certain number of clients before you felt like you’re ready to sell crossing river? Like, did you essentially just make sure that there was enough coming in with magnify that you’re like, Okay, this, you know, I can do this? Is that kind of?

Doug 33:20
Yeah, that’s that’s literally kind of how it kind of got to the point. It’s, it’s, it’s a leap of faith point. Right? I mean, in order to grow the way, you know, I wanted to grow, I need to go after it full time, not just part time, and doing what I was doing with with crossing the river. I just didn’t want to do it anymore. I didn’t care to go out and prospect videos and try to talk somebody into making a video anymore, man. And it’s like, I think it’s just time to let it go and move on. And that’s that’s the thing that I wanted to go to now maybe your some of your listeners are like, I still love web design. Right? I just, I would rather move to be more of a more of a consultant type job, right? That’s me, you essentially start to replace yourself and all those different aspects. Just like

Josh 34:12
Yeah, and it’s interesting, like for me, one of the reasons I scaled in transit was because number one, I kind of had to I got to a place where I remember last year we had 23 projects going on at once. I was like there’s no way I can do this just by myself. So that was one need. And the other thing was I also felt like I was becoming the business owner but starting this Josh Hall co endeavor which is you could probably tell like it’s my passion. I just love this stuff. And it’s not that I don’t like designing websites and not that I don’t like CSS and sales and stuff like that but I just love this so much more and maybe that’s how you fell about magnify with like your entrepreneurial mind like now you can really put it to use on a day to day basis with magnify because you can make these changes, you can have these ideas, and you don’t need to sell to a certain client or you know, like a service based business. So like, it’s kind of like that.

Doug 35:09
Yeah, I wanted to help more people utilize video because like, for for crossing river to do a Magnify does all automated at minimum to send a person out or even to myself to film a video, at minimum we’d have to charge 550 bucks to film a video testimonial. What magnified does automated right spit turn people like Oh, it’s too expensive. I can’t afford to do that. And so what what was kind of funny when I was thinking about launching it is I had, I had a potential prospect call from I think it was Idaho or Iowa, one of the I, one of them and they’re like, Yeah, we want to get a video testimonial from a client, but they’re way out in the middle of nowhere.

So like, closest town was in Grove City. And it was a small town in Ohio, it taken like two and a half hours to drive there to film the video. And he’s like, he goes, Is there a way to like somehow, like have them recorded off their phone and like you like capture it? I’m like, eventually. Nice. So putting that all together. So it was like this little cues like that, you know, um.

Josh 36:19
Because that was the need and identify the need. And that was probably the where the light bulb went off where it was like, Holy crap. Cuz it was like, I know, there’s other tools that are similar, but there’s nothing quite like magnify to where it’s I mean, like, the the intentional setup of what you guys have developed and what you continue to develop, like, I imagine you just found a need. And that’s that’s interesting. Was that was that the birthplace of magnify that call?

Doug 36:46
No, it was it was one of the really cool confirmations you got along the way that was kind of this is the right way to, to go. Right. Okay, gotcha. But with the guy that bought the company coming into play, and then I had some other things that we’re working on the back end that were also code to fruition at the same time, and it just everything just kind of fell together. And that’s kind of what happened. Yeah.

Josh 37:15
Well, you you hit on a really interesting point there, which is something that everyone I’ve talked to who has started their own business or started a new endeavor, basically said that they came to a point where they realize they had to give it 100%. Because if you don’t, it’s just it’s half assed, like, you’re going to give 50% here and 50% here, those are only going to go so far, you really have to buckle down and do it take that leap of faith, which to your point, like you know, you sold crossing wherever you had enough to live on for a while, there is interest and actual money being made with magnify, which is huge. And I imagine you worked a lot more run, you know, starting magnify, also working on crossing river until you finally sold it and where you’re at now. But I think that’s a really, really important point. Because to jump ship on something if there’s like no viability with a new product that’s dangerous, and probably just not smart.

Doug 38:07
Yeah, make sure you do that MVP that the minimum viable front end sun keeps going. Oh, you’re good man. Still the MVP? You know, it’s the start out with that minimum viable product, the waters out and see if it’ll go right. That’s that’s, that’s definitely a first way to go.

Josh 38:27
And I imagine the cool thing, like in that case is like God forbid, magnify didn’t work out. Did you have the thought like, I could always go back to doing video if I really wanted to, or, you know, you have all these skill sets that you developed? I imagine there’s plenty of plan B options, not that you focused on those, but it’s like, you’re never going to end up on the streets.

Doug 38:46
No, you’re on the streets. And like for me, I’m when I sold it. I said, Okay, again, go back to that you don’t know what you don’t know. So I hired so not only did I have a business coach, I also hired a sales coach. So a guy that was really experienced in sales, because I knew that’s when we I wanted to launch like the white label version of it, because we started getting digital marketing agencies wanting to white label the platform for their own in house video service. That’s a scalable tool. And I said, okay, if I’m going to do this, I’m going to go after it with everything I got. There’s no, you know, there’s no Plan B let’s, you know, burn the ships, you know, yeah, we’re here to we’re here to stay man. So magnifier has been going strong. February, this coming February will be two years. Right.

And we saw flush magnify in November of 2018. Yeah.

Josh 39:42
Wow. I can’t believe it’s been that long. Well, you put the sales. Yeah, that’s right. March. We started. launched in March.

That’s I remember. I remember. I remember working on in the beginning of 2018. Yeah. Which funny enough magnify was the last All site that I built. Yeah, yeah. So can

Doug 40:05
you help the logo just made the logo, I think there’s like the last note he made to me. Like, we are sitting at a local coffee shop and just like drawing and sketching, trying to figure out what the heck and so I wanted to be really, really cool. And then I got with you, we kicked ideas brown back and forth for a while. And then everybody loves the logo, manga complex sciences stay still. So

Josh 40:30
I know it’s so fine. And for anyone who sees this on video or wants to look at the logo, I know one of your clients was like a really like the two people shaking hands. Yeah, I am. And I didn’t even think I didn’t even recognize that until I saw it. Yeah. So I’ll just say that that was design genius by myself. But yeah, I certainly plan that now. Oh, yeah. Question. There’s a stark difference between service businesses and a product style business. What does that look like? Have you really had to adjust from going from a service base, you know, work environment to product base? Like, what’s that been like? Its day to day is completely different.

Doug 41:10
Yeah, yes. So like, obviously, I’m not editing any videos, right? Because people like so like, when I talked to white label, they’re like, so when someone makes a video, like, do you guys like taking, like, edited? And like work? And I’m like, No, we don’t have any open loop is like in the in the system? It’s all automated. You’re like, oh, my gosh, it’s badass. Yeah. And so really, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s more, it’s definitely more strategic, right? Because my team is essentially the platform, you know, they’re, they’re taking care of all the the, the the day to day, and I’m more building partnerships, looking for unique ways to leverage the platform, you know, with the white label, you know, it’s the one to many model, right, so Well, yeah, it’s many people.

So I get to focus on that. And then utilizing my knowledge and video and video marketing and video, right now, it’s exploding, I mean, and it’s just gonna continue to grow and grow and grow. And so I get to utilize my knowledge in helping digital marketing agencies or reputation marketing companies, um, implement video, with their, with their business. So because that’s really cool, I read a consult that

Josh 42:21
I like that that you have taken from your previous business. And again, going back to the fact that this business is in the same realm of your video business, like you taking what you learned from there. And now you can apply it to a product and consulting that can, like you said, can be done one to many, which is like, that’s one of the beauties about courses that I found that was just knocked me off my boots was when I, you know, and from going from one to one for so long with web design, which I still there’s so much value in that. And I love that, and I have learned so much from that. But the ability to go one to many is just incredible, for a lot of different reasons. Now, having said that, there’s a lot of different headaches with that kind of view. I mean, do you do you do? Do you feel like you do more work with magnify than you did with crossing river? Or would you say you see you keep to a certain amount of hours a week? Or? I mean, I know, it’s probably tough to turn your mind off with running. Yeah,

Doug 43:15
I mean, that’s the thing is, I mean, there’s an as an entrepreneur, and a business owner, it’s like, it’s, I do, obviously, I keep things separate as much as I as much as I can. Right? And but your mind’s always turning on stuff, right? Because like my developers were, you know, they’ll work on stuff on tweaks and changes in the evening, while people aren’t as active on the platform, right.

So we’ll do the tweaks and changes in the evening time. So occasionally, I have to jump on like a line, check changes out, test them to make sure they’re good to go to deploy, for people to utilize in the news, a little tweaks, you know, sometimes in the weekends, I have to do a little bit of tweaking stuff like that. But, um, it’s coming to a point now, where I’m not doing a lot of that stuff on the evenings or weekends anymore. And when I first started it out, Oh, absolutely, man. It was, you know, it was selling and marketing during the day in partnerships during the day and phone calls and emails during the day. And at night, it was polished platform polish the code polish the platform polish the code for a good salad. I mean, we’re, since we’re launching plus here, pretty quick. Um, and well, but but tiny lies this, this it’ll be launched.

Josh 44:36
You know, one thing I was interested about magnify was that you have all these iterations and, and I was kind of curious. Yeah, like you listen, you listen to your, your clients, the people who are using it your customers, because well, we’ll call them customers versus clients clients more of like service, whereas customers are more SAS the software as a users or users. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, you’re listening to them. And then yeah, you’re launching This will come out probably shortly after you launch with magnify. But so let’s talk about those iterations real quick. So you listen to your clients. I mean, did people have ideas that you were like, that’s just not a good idea? To implement? Okay. So yeah, we’re only taking you’re only adding the things that are viable, that makes sense that are probably practical that can be done.

Doug 45:24
Exactly. Yep. And I get them, like all the nice fish from the white labels. And because it’s their own version of magnify, right, so they have their own ideas but like the heart and core man, if I’m always careful to hold on to is keeping it the the user interface and the the system itself, easy for the person has zippity doo to experience producing video because like me, you are, I’m sure your listeners, we’re all very tech savvy, they could probably hop into a and maybe a little more of a complicated software and service platform and figure it out pretty quick.

The average person but that’s not in any sort of any form of digital marketing or that would be video web. What have you. They have no clue is zero clue. And I want to make sure we keep to the heart of that. So like with video testimonials with branded video content with case study videos, right? Send three questions, they record those three answers, magnified produces the video, and then video, email even making video email, a simple process because there’s obviously other video email platforms that are that are cool, right? But they’re, they’re definitely a lot more. There’s a lot more bells and whistles, the more complicated, right? The the average user, they just want to send a video email to somebody. And that’s it. They don’t care about drip campaigns within a video email, like the larger marketing agencies, they may care about that. But the average user, they just want to send a video email.

Josh 46:54
And the cool thing about what you’re doing with magnify feel like is it’s kind of like almost like a one stop shop for it’s becoming a kind of a one stop shop for all your video needs. Like Like I said, you can do a variety of different styles. I know one thing I loved about I’m so glad that magnify came for me at the time I started doing courses because I would have to have done that same thing. Like if I wanted a video testimonial from a student who went through the course, they would have had to like record it themselves, they would have to bin it because a lot of people even web designers like video is a whole different ballgame.

Just like your you know your video then you find out web design it like they’re similar, but they’re very different to where like it’s been so great for me, because I don’t even send people the link anymore. I just have the link in my courses. So at the end of the course they have the option Yep, every one of my courses at the anybody who’s listening to this one of my students who have who have submitted a testimonial, a video testimonial, you’ve gone through magnify, like you just click the link pops open your camera, wherever you’re at, you can record it and then I get it, then I can publish it on my YouTube or wherever.

So, you know, I think as a customer because I still am a customer of magnify, it’s been really cool to see the iterations because I think one thing that’s really important with the SAS product, which is again, software as a subscription, or whatever, as it is, as a service, yeah, innovation and marketing is like key because the last thing I would want as a customer magnifies for it to just be the same thing and then there really be no movement. Like you really kind of I imagined it’s a little bit different for you as the owner because with crossing river you could keep up with trends with video and stuff like that, but your services video Yeah, they were primarily like you you had the main services you know, whereas magnify Him I’m imagine you really it’s a whole different ballgame to like stay on with like the vision in the in the vision casting of a moving forward, right?

Doug 48:51
Yep, yep, so Exactly, man say, Well, that’s what crossing river. I mean, I we were doing a lot of 360 video when 360 video was really, it’s still it’s pretty hot, right? Especially with VR now with the Oculus and all that stuff. But then 360 video was cool, but we’re keeping up with that. And like we said, we did a lot of very story driven videos, video testimonials really itself, but what we did a lot was was utilizing real people and video so magnified is essentially systematize that and again the goal is just to keep it easy for that person to utilize.

Josh 49:30
Yeah, yeah, that’s awesome. And I love that it’s very customer focused and customer centric and it’s very clear that you actually listen to the needs of people and of course you’re gonna you’re gonna weed out the ones that are like there’s no way that’s a terrible idea but it’s solid ones it’s it’s really cool that you you know make time for that and you know, if there’s a need there it’s very possible.

Doug 49:51
Anybody that submits like a guy will get the you should add this or you should do this. I love those because I may I may be like yeah, no thanks for Apple can’t do that blah, blah, blah. But when you’re getting those, I mean, that means are they they care about your, your business to the point to where they’re recommending something they actually care about it?

Josh 50:13
Yeah, and I know I’ve experienced the same thing with courses if a student says, Hey, I really enjoyed this, but I would have liked to have seen this, you know, like on the course or on the site. Oh, yeah, I should have done it. I did that with like, for example, my first couple courses I did, I didn’t have like a resource list of all the links that I mentioned, and a couple of students emailed me and were like, Hey, I can’t remember where that link was, in the, you know, in one of the lessons or something, I was like, oh, I should just make like, a resource, like a master list at the end of the course that has every link I mentioned.

That way, they can just go through and they could see it. And yeah, same same thing. You listen to your customers you come up with, with a product form now. With magnify moving forward, do you have like goals as far as users? Do you have monetary goal? I know it’s probably different monetarily. Because you’ve, you’ve changed from a subscription to you’re going to be launching plus, and you’ve got a couple different, like, yeah, how does that work with goals with a with a product like this?

Doug 51:13
So for magnifies, so my goal is to essentially, in three years, I want to replace myself, or get to the point where I could sell that move on to something else. Nice. If that’s kind of that’s, that’s my, that’s my goal, right? That’s as an entrepreneur, I want to move on to something else, or you know, get even skated to run by itself, right, especially now with the growth we’re getting right. We’ve have experienced and we’re getting ready to experience me we’re getting a lot of amazing traction for Magnify Plus, I think it’s gonna be it’s gonna be a good it’s gonna be a good year next year.

Josh 51:48
Yeah, I’m excited about it. Because what’s the price it like?

Doug 51:52
37 bucks. That’s 3737 Up 37 bucks a month to get dunked on everything. So you have 37 bucks a month for unlimited video testimonials, branded videos, case study videos and video email.

Josh 52:05
Yeah, that’s a steal, man. I mean, yeah, viewer to, it’s huge, because you can do videos from someone across the world or whatever. But even like, locally, if you were to your point you talked about earlier, if, if you just wanted to hire somebody to film a legit testimonial, it’s gonna be at least 500. And if I want to do Yeah, yeah, any sort of like editing or any I mean, then you’re talking several 1000. I mean, yeah, it’s that possible. Yeah, there’s huge Yeah.

Doug 52:32
Because it’s expensive to do video, right, right, to hire people, you know, sound and lighting and video camera, that editing and all that kind of stuff. So these are, these are, these are simple style videos, right. And the number one will get too complex all the time. It’s, these videos are authentic, we get that a lot. They love the authenticity, especially in a video testimonial. Right, it’s doesn’t feel scripted, they’re looking at a camera on their phone or tablet computer with a webcam. But then it’s also we get a lot of it is easy to use, we can figure it out really easily how to utilize the platform.

Josh 53:08
One thing I’ve loved too, is seeing a student or even some of my clients who I’ve only emailed with, like actually seeing them and hearing them talk because now that we have clients all over the US and all over the world, I’m not going to meet with those people face to face, like all my local clients were, you know, couple years ago, everyone’s local. So it’s been really cool for me to like, I love getting a video testimonial. And because it’s cool, I can’t wait to see it.

And you get to see the person you get to hear them. And then sometimes like with my students, I let I try to recommend writing a review first, and then using that as like a script almost for the video testimonial. And that’s worked out really well. And I’ve loved that because I might see a review come in, and I see their thumbnail or whatever. And then I actually see the video and it’s like, you get to hear their mannerisms or tone. Yeah, I don’t know. I just love it. It’s been it’s been super, super cool. Yeah.

Doug 53:59
Especially now in a very competitive and I don’t care what business you’re in. It’s competitive. Right? And if you’re at a business that you say has no competition, you’re that means there’s no market, right? Yeah. Um, what that’s taken right from Shark Tank, right? So when people go on Shark Tank, and they ask who’s your competitors and they go, we don’t have any competitors. They’re all like, well, I’m out because there’s no market.

So to stand out in a crowded marketplace, it’s even for magnify weak, we regulate the weak. We utilize our own platform we’re getting as much as we can. And branded video we’re making I do expert videos, at least three to five times a week. And the consistency in doing that is huge, like I see just dramatic results from doing like one video a week to doing three to five a week, just especially on LinkedIn. LinkedIn video right now is just exploding and It’s just Yeah, LinkedIn is definitely a great spot to go with. With video now for sure.

Josh 55:05
Good point. Yeah, for designers in particular who are doing any sort of video, you know, any expertise videos or things like that? Yeah, I know, I’ve heard LinkedIn is on tap, particularly because it’s kind of a dated corporate style platform. So if you can get in there with some of the fresh video.

Doug 55:20
And he thinks they think it’s like, you know, the data, corporate platform, but it’s, it’s very much. Not that,

Josh 55:28
I guess I just mean, from like, the demographic standpoint, like

Doug 55:32
it’s very b2b, right? Yeah. So especially for that web design industry, right? Your, your clients, our businesses, and a lot of them are hanging out on there. So less than 1% of the people that are on LinkedIn actually contribute content. So you’re either a thumb scroller, or you’re a content contributor. So if you’re a contract, content contributor, you’re seen as a thought leader and as an expert, and you will not like that, like, oh, you mind, if you do it like this? No, I, I can pretty much guarantee you, you sign for 95. Plus, you start making three to five videos a week on Expert Tip videos faithfully, for a good solid week or two. You will get comments you will get likes, you will get direct message, Link direct messages from people who are interested in doing business with you.

Josh 56:26
Yeah, and it’s not even LinkedIn. I mean, LinkedIn is huge, obviously. But other platforms as well. I mean, I’ve seen that with Facebook. I did I forget when I launched it, I think it was late spring of 2019. I did my Tuesday, quick tips. And I committed to doing a quick tip every Tuesday, this year. And it’s been huge. Like, yeah, to your point, like video is just there’s something about when you’re selling a service, or when you’re sharing your expertise, it really just puts you in that role of like the guide, the expert, the expert in the business, and it just creates an amount of trust that you don’t get in other mediums. When people see you, they hear you, they can get a sense of who you are as a person.

That’s what the power of video is just huge. So yeah, I echo that for show like interests for sure. Yeah. Well, Doug, this has been great, man, we’ve covered some really awesome stuff. We talked about what you did with a service business and how you built that up to get it ready to sell. And it’s interesting. I thought you had thought about selling in a lot longer. I didn’t realize it was only three or four months that.

Doug 57:30
Yeah, like three or four months, man is probably was thinking about it. Yeah. But to take the action, it was probably actually three to four months from like, a bringing it out like I’m interested in selling it to sold.

Josh 57:46
Yeah, gotcha. And then of course, of course, you had magnify it was going it was already generating money on talked about the importance of like, you know, in your case, you sold it for whatever you made that year times three. So you had some money to fall back on and bank on important lesson that you talked about there with not, you know, maybe being a little more careful with that, because I’m sure a big sum of money looks like oh, man, we’re rolling. But yeah, that, you know, keeping.

Doug 58:14
Set aside some splurge money, right, which we did, but obviously living off of it. And but I the the caveat to that is yeah, I didn’t take the time to maybe set up more consulting, right where I had that release had enough to at least cover half of my reoccurring bills, right that that would send that out. But like at the same token, um, I wouldn’t have been able to go full bore that first year, because I had to go do some consulting right now doing it. But I have got a lot of processes in place and learned a ton like said, this 2019, for me, has been one of the greatest learning years in my life. And it’s been utterly amazing.

So like, I follow like, action coach guy, Brad Sugars. And he’s a phenomenal, phenomenal guy. He’s got some great books. And I recommend another great book too, for thinking of starting a another business. And he see he has a quote where he says, Your greatest year of earning is always preceded by a greatest year of learning. Whew, I like that. So all because you’re you’re learning in that year, and then the next year applying all that knowledge that you’ve learned the year previously.

Josh 59:34
Nice, nice. What’s that book called that you payment?

Doug 59:37
So he’s got I mean, he says that a lot of what love is speaking stuff. But he got a lot of just just google search Brad Sugars are going to Amazon is Google Search Brad Sugars. And he’s got a lot of a lot of really great books there. But a really great book that I really loved is actually by Daymond John called The Power of Broke. And it’s a really great book On essentially the scrappiness, you need to have when you’re first starting a new business from scratch, right? Because the the trapping get into is, is throwing money at a an issue a problem you want solved, right? But if you take money out of the equation, how are you going to solve that problem with no money? How are you going to do it at the the MVP to accomplish that same goal?

Josh 1:00:24
I like that. I like that word scrappy, because I think that you need to have that mindset anyway, in business as a freelancer or an entrepreneur. But yeah, particularly when you’re launching something on a shoestring budget, or something that you know, you may not have, because you had built up a business previously for a decade, whereas this was less than a year old, you know, by the time you went full time with it. So yeah, that’s really cool. I’ll link to that in the show notes. I’m going to pick that one up as well. That sounds awesome.

And you had mentioned the importance of a coach, I think that’s worth mention that again, because I I went through see your I think you’re like on the second tier of the coaching platform with an action coach, I went through like a six month plat program. And yeah, my biggest tech takeaway was it made me a business owner, I was very apprehensive initially. And number one was because I just didn’t feel like I was ready to take those next steps. But once I got to the point where I did, it really helped me become the business owner and feeling more comfortable with delegating. Instead of doing everything myself, which is the trap that most of us fall into.

Doug 1:01:27
Getting it very much is definitely a I would say is a good first step, whether you’re you’re hiring somebody, um, where you’re meeting with them two times, like I, my coach, I met with two times a month. And through through a zoom call, we did coaching over that we do email and phone calls, but like, the one on one stuff was done via via zoom, and then I hired a sales coach, as well. So I had two people helping me grow and then obviously reading like crazy on when or I’m using Audible, I do audible a lot, just driving from point A to point B, do audible, right?

Josh 1:02:06
Yeah. And it’s I know, with a coach, I meant to say that one reason I was a little apprehensive about doing that program was because they weren’t website designers. They were just business coaches in general. So I was like, how can they really help my business when they and this was just a thought I had? Yeah. Which I would tell you know, those folks that that was one of my thoughts was I was like, how can they really help me when they they don’t know anything about web design? Or what it takes? Well, yeah, yes.

But there’s a lot of broad stroke strategies and tactics that are proven that can really help. And there’s such value in getting another set of eyes on your business, to where they could like, just yesterday, I met with a local mentor, and he had an a couple ideas for my Josh Hall.co stuff, because I’m probably going to be by the time this comes out, maybe I’ll even have more details on it. But I’m looking at doing like a membership more like a mastermind with developers who want to take things to the next level with more accountability and coaching and things like that. And he gave me some strategies. And I was like, Oh, my gosh, why didn’t I I never even thought about that. Like, it’s so clear, you know, like plains day, I could have done that. But when you’re in your business, you just you don’t see all those things. So yeah, the value of a coach. I mean, I I’m in I have an online coach right now I’ve been with for over a year. And yeah, he’s from Australia. He’s an online marketer.

But the cool thing is, he he had one reason I went with him is he’s dealing with very high end clients like multimillion dollar clients. So I’m getting access to some of those top tier ideas that are filtering around to me, but he also had an SEO and a website business that he sold. So I kind of know like, he knows that my struggles with this, whereas another business coach might not but yeah, don’t mean to derail us but value of a coach is huge. I loved hearing about what you’ve done with magnify up to this point where your customer focus, you know, went from just capturing video testimonials to white label, which for those who are unfamiliar with that term, the white label clients, Doug’s referring to essentially means that a company that wants to collect video testimonials for themselves, like they can use the Magnify platform, but it doesn’t say magnify, it’ll say whatever that company is.

Yeah, because the customer would have no idea you know, where they’re getting that from. So very valuable. I think the plus thing sounds really, really option. I’m sure a lot of my audience is gonna get a lot of value from that. So definitely check that out. Man, we’ve covered some really cool stuff with with selling a service business and some really good just business things in general. Do you have like a final thought or anything that you would say to people who maybe are thinking about selling a business or who you know, might want to consider that?

Doug 1:04:35
Um, yeah, so first thing I would do is, is sit down and just begin to flesh out that idea, get it on paper, right, because it doesn’t become real unless you get it out. Get it, get it down on paper, right and do what you and I both did. We got mentors, we got business coaches, that helped us grow helped us to get to the point where we could do Another business owner could pursue another endeavor right? Could doesn’t have to be another business? It could be, you know, um, you want to do more speaking engagements, right? You know, how are you going to? How are you going to get more speaking engagements if you’re in the day to day all the time, right? So which can lead obviously to more business opportunities for your business? So get it down on paper and get yourself a coach that could really help you grow so.

Josh 1:05:24
Awesome. Awesome. You don’t know what you don’t know, that’s probably a good model. There’s no know what you don’t know yet. You could find it out the hard way by learning yourself over a decade or you can just find somebody who knows it and then expedite the process, Right?

Doug 1:05:37
You could take you could take the 1000 foot staircase or you can take the elevator and push a button.

Josh 1:05:44
I think that’s a perfect place to end well said, man. Dude, thanks so much for the time. Thanks for being transparent and congrats on what you’ve done with magnify and cheers to what’s been an awesome 2019. So let’s see if you did if you had an amazing year of learning this year, the 2020. Maybe we’ll do this interview next year at this time, and we’ll you’ll see on the beach. Sounds like a plan. Ilike it. Yeah. All right. Thanks. Thanks. All the all all the Joshua holics out there.

We’ll see if that term catches on. All right, cool. All right. Cheers, man. Thanks.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai