Terrified of public speaking or presenting in front of a group? Do you turn into a completely different person when a camera or light is on you? You’re not alone.

Luckily, there are a lot of easy and practical things you can do to get better and as a web designer, this is imperative because you’ll quickly find out that you’re going to be in places (whether a business meeting, website presentation, networking group, etc) where you need to be prepared to speak in front of a small group or camera.

For this episode, I’ve brought in my colleague Renee Vidor (Author, Speaker & Entrepreneur) who is an amazing public speaker to help us web designers get better at speaking, presenting and getting comfortable in front of a camera which is HUGE for social media as all platforms prefer video and will feature your ads over your competitors who aren’t using video.

In This Episode

00:00 – Introduction
03:58 – Greeting to Renee
06:45 – Create your platform
08:10 – Speak your passion
11:19 – Words can be powerful
14:21 – It isn’t always natural
20:24 – Where to start speaking
26:44 – Have a message
30:33 – An accountability group
35:11 – What is distracting
39:25 – Power of the pause
41:50 – Slow down
46:41 – What to do with your hands
49:29 – Staying relaxed regardless
59:41 – Don’t compare to others
1:01:34 – Plow through roadblocks
1:07:08 – Healthy self-critiquing ideas
1:12:40 – W.I.N against comparison
1:19:47 – Renee’s final thoughts

Connect with Renee:

Links mentioned:

And be sure to sign up for her upcoming book at:


Episode #017 Full Transcription

Josh 0:17
Hey, everybody, welcome to episode 17. I am very excited about this episode. And I’ve been looking forward to getting this one out to you guys, because we’re going to cover a topic that I’m very passionate about right now. And I’ve been working really hard at over the past few years. And that’s getting better at public speaking and presenting. So for this talk, I brought in a local colleague of mine, Renee Vidor, who is an author, a speaker, and entrepreneur, and she heads up a lot of communities here locally where she does all kinds of speaking events. And Renee is an incredible public speaker, I actually our paths crossed when I joined a speaking group of what was called a Toastmasters group, if you’re not familiar with that, it’s basically a public speaking group. It’s kind of like a networking group, but it’s based around speaking and presenting and communication and leadership. But I met her through there. And she was one of the most outstanding speakers in that group. And she really gave me so much good advice when I was in that group.

Josh 1:17
And I wanted to bring her on here to share with you guys how to practically do things to get better at speaking, presenting and more importantly, get better on camera. And I wanted to do this talk for you guys. Because, well, for a number of reasons. But mainly, as web designers, you’re going to find that you are going to be in positions where you’re going to have to present things talk in front of groups, whether you’re showcasing your website designs with a business that you’re working with, whether you are invited at any sort of like meetup or group, or a lot of times, you’re going to want to do social media videos. Because side note, video is huge for social media, Facebook, Instagram, every platform prefers video now. So you’re gonna have a leg up on other web designers, if you do video. So feeling comfortable on camera is really, really important.

Josh 2:07
But again, there’s a lot of other reasons why you as web designers need to start feeling more comfortable with presenting. And I know this question has been posed to me numerous times recently by students who are starting or running their businesses and want to get better at speaking in front of groups. And I mentioned this in the episode, but at one point, years ago, I went to a meeting with a business I was working with, and I had no idea that they were going to have their whole board there, I thought I was just meeting with my client that I was working with directly.

Josh 2:34
Well, I show up and there’s like seven or eight people and they’re all in suits. And I was completely petrified. And I had to do, basically a presentation of the website. And I was nervous and I was shaky. And that was one of the catalysts for me to get serious about this subject. So it’s gonna happen to you more than likely, this is why I wanted to get this episode out to you and you guys are gonna love it. So so many great things that we talked about Renee is just awesome. Now before we dive in this episode is brought to you by my website maintenance plan course, if you guys are struggling with the feast and famine of web design, which is what we all go through where some months are really good, some months are really bad. The way to put it into that is well one of the ways is a nice, recurring income website maintenance plan.

Josh 3:17
It changed my life changed things for my family, my family, and I ended up creating my first course on how I built my plan. I’m going to show you guys how you can build a plant of your own and market it and sell it and you can start building recurring income, which I guarantee will change your life from day one. So if you’re interested in that, check out the link below on the show notes for this episode, and I would love to have you in my course and guide you to create a plan of your own. Alright guys, without further ado, please give it up for my guest or enable the door and we’re gonna talk about get you better at public speaking and presenting. Alright, enjoy guys. Rene, welcome to the show. Thanks for taking some time to chat today.

Renee 3:58
Hey, my pleasure. Thank you so much for asking me I’m excited to be here.

Josh 4:02
I’m super excited to I’ve been looking forward to this talk for a while not only to catch up, because it’s been a while since we were in our speaking group together. But we’re talking about a subject that I’m really passionate about. And I’ve really worked hard at over the past few years. And that’s public speaking, present presenting, and just communication in general. And I think it’s so valuable, particularly for my audience of web designers to be comfortable with speaking particularly in small groups, if you’re presenting your website designs or you know, anything you’re presenting, giving talks. And then as you know, as well as I do video on social media is huge. So I think you know, being comfortable on camera is really, really important. So really excited to kind of pick your brain and to share with my audience what you’ve kind of taught me about public speaking and stuff. But before we get to that, I love for them to get a chance to know who you are and kind of what you do.

Renee 4:57
Sure, absolutely. My name is Renee Vidor. And I live in the Columbus, Ohio area. With my family, I have two teenagers, and they’re definitely a big part of my world and my husband, Josh. And what I am doing more so now has been completing a book that is due out, I’ll have the release date here soon. But that has been a huge project. I mean, especially for someone who wants to be out speaking more so that I can’t be as much. It’s been a big project. And then I also have been creating a hub for women to be able to come together in a global community, which has been my big project, and I’m loving every ounce of that, I will say, because I know that you started out on your own my husband, I also do a business together. So that’s, I’m telling you what I what I’m doing and my passion projects, but I also have the half two as well. And so running that is also a full time slash part time business. So I do stay pretty busy. And I just love to be part of the community and helping to connect others and, and so you’ll see me around.

Josh 6:06
That’s awesome. I didn’t realize you worked with your husband, what is that business? What type of industry is that in?

Renee 6:11
That is in the property management company. And we do a lot of real estate. And I do a lot of that office side and people in person.

Josh 6:23
Gotcha. So with the the whole author endeavor, you know, your passion, did that star as kind of a byproduct with you, you know, getting into more speaking arrangements and things like that with your other business? Or did you find that, you know, wanting to put out a book that forced you to kind of get serious about public speaking and things like that?

Renee 6:45
Well, it’s interesting, that question, I have to see neither, because I actually started with the book because of a topic that was really resonating, which is the topic of comparison. I know as a speaker, as it doesn’t matter if you’re a web designer, entrepreneur, we all deal with that. So it’s a common denominator.

Renee 7:06
But with that topic, I realized, okay, this is something that I need to put out there I need to and when I was offered the opportunity for the book, that is when I went ahead with it. So it does connect with speaking, because now I have more of a I’ll say a platform, a topic to be speaking on more so than I did before. Okay, so connected. And I have been speaking on that topic, which has been wonderful. Because before this, this project with the book, honestly, I had the desire to speak, but I didn’t have the platform so much. I’ve been honing those skills as you and I both know, because we were in a speaking group together. But I didn’t have the place to really, like I said, the platform of which to speak.

Josh 7:53
Gotcha. Yeah, that makes sense. And I’m sure it’s so much better when you’re speaking about something you’re passionate about. Not that you’re not passionate about property or real estate, but I’m sure it’s a little bit different if you give a presentation on real estate versus comparison or something, you know, pulling from your own real world experience.

Renee 8:10
Absolutely. And I honestly am not very passionate about the other one, it’s, I’m happy that we haven’t I feel blessed, and I’m grateful. But at the same time, yeah, my passion spot is definitely helping people to overcome more of a long term thing that’s going to help them in all aspects of their life versus Yes, everybody needs a home and a place to live. But those you can come by not a big deal. Whereas that self development and really honing in our skills and our ability to overcome some of these topics. Are is surpasses so much more than just that, that small need.

Josh 8:47
Yeah, it’s so true. And it seems to just filter in every aspect of life, right? I mean, self development. I know for me personally, once I got serious about it, and you know that alongside with speaking better in public and getting more comfortable and camera, like just communication in general has just it’s changed my life in so many ways. From from business, to marriage to family relationships. Yeah, it affects everything in the most positive sense.

Renee 9:12
I know that you’ve been on this journey for longer than even I know, you and I can’t remember it’s been at least a few years that we’ve known one another. How long? Yeah.

Josh 9:20
Let’s see. It was Yeah. 2017. And what’s funny is I joined that Toastmasters group, and I’m dying to get back. Are you still in it? Are you still in that group?

Renee 9:31
I am. It’s been wonderful. It’s been such a supportive and helpful. It’s really grown in a great way.

Josh 9:36
Yeah, I really I’m really excited to get back. My thing right now is just with my two daughters. Now it’s about a half day for me to drive up there and to do the group and I just, I haven’t been able to have make the time for it and my schedule, but I do fully intend on getting back to it because I did find it so valuable. But yeah, I mean, since we it was funny because I joined that group.

Josh 9:58
And I think you might remember I think were there that day when I did my first little. It was like a quick, I forget what it’s called, but they put you on the spot. And they asked you a question. I think mine was like, What am I excited for hoping for in the near future? And I had like three minutes to answer something. And I said that we were up at that point tried for our kid for almost two years. That was on a Thursday. And then that following Tuesday, we found that we were pregnant. So how, and I had to keep it secret, too. So I wanted to come in the next week and be like, I want to tell you guys, but we want to make sure you know, everything was good before we announced but but yeah, yeah. So it’s been, it’s been two and a half years now already. Yeah.

Renee 10:36
Well, I just have to brag on you for a moment, because I know you have built an amazing audience here. But when I first got to know you, Josh, I saw so much. I mean, you already had done I’m sure a lot of prep work when it came to communication. And just within we each do, but you had such a spirit behind you with a message to share. Because you’re passionate about what you’re doing. You care about your audience, and just so much to share. And you can tell you’re a little timid to share that. But gosh, just from that first time and watching your family grow, watching, like with Emily, and just like getting to see her on Facebook, haven’t met her in person how to do that sometime.

Renee 11:19
Just being able to watch you grow as a person as a business, you know, entrepreneur, and just to see now you doing the podcasting, and I get to catch those, it’s been remarkable to see that improvement. And I just think it’s so neat that when you invest some of that little pieces of time, and you speak into the world, and just like you spoke about what your desire was, I think it’s something like that, what is something that you’re looking forward to? Or some question like that, yeah, comes to fruition. I mean, words are so powerful, and how we use them, and what the skills that we learned to use them even better impact our business, like you said, our relationships. And it’s just so powerful you as a great example. And I love that you’re leading the people that are listening and watching to be able to do that better with whatever they’re doing with web design as well.

Josh 12:12
Well, thank you so much for that, Renee. I really appreciate that. I mean, that’s it’s such a good kind of first point. Because, yes, what you speak, it just, there’s so many different versions of the idea of like, what you speak will come to fruition or at least affect the things around you for good or for bad. You know, that’s why people who often complain, are always in a spot where things are just negative. And it seems like nothing good ever happens. And I believe that a lot of that has to do with the words they speak whereas Civ speak positively. And you’re intentional about professional development, you know, personal development and doing good in the world. It does, you know, it makes a big impact.

Josh 12:51
And, yeah, I really appreciate the access, certainly, you know, worked hard at that over the past few years. And you in particular, in that group, you gave me such good feedback. One of the reasons I love that Toastmasters group was because it was not only a chance to get better at just public speaking. But it was just communication and leadership in general. And it was a chance one of my favorite segments was when we did like feedback or reviews of each other speeches and you I think I still have it, I have my little Toastmasters folder still. And you would give me such golden advice with just presenting tips, how to come across more comfortable. And it’s really made a big difference. I don’t know if you can tell, you know, by the videos you see me do now as opposed to back then.

Josh 13:34
But in just a couple of years, it’s night and day, I have a video that I shared with one of my students recently from 2016. From my business where I did a short little presentation, and it’s night and day, I was, first of all, I was like rocking in my chair, I was uncomfortable. I was not very assertive, was very just kind of like bland and moto tone. And yeah, it’s amazing. Let’s just a little bit of emphasis on just communication in general, you know, can do so my question to you right now is you’re such a great public speaker, I learned so much from you. And you just have a great, charismatic way about you particularly on camera with all your social media. Have you always been like that? Or did you have to work at that as well? Because I definitely I had to work to get comfortable. Yeah, what do you feel about that?

Renee 14:21
Okay, I’m gonna be vulnerable here and share with you the truth because I think it’s really important. I like that you still have videos of yourself from before you were comfortable because you like you said, you can see the difference. What I have to compare myself with in a positive way that’s helpful is to go back to let’s say 2015 I was nominated by a few friends to be in a pageant, a Mrs. International project, and if you know me well at all, I’m not the pageant kind of person. This is not my personality. I’m not it’s not my thing.

Renee 14:59
But When, when you have nominations, by the time the third one came around, it was like something is here that I need to pay attention to. And so I went ahead, I checked into it. And I realized I had a couple of words for that year. And they were clarity and growth. So every year, I have a word or two words. And personally, I feel like it’s a God given thing. And I don’t pick them. They come to me. But I already learned about what the clarity was supposed to be. But I realized that this opportunity ended up being and hindsight the growth.

Renee 15:35
Now here’s the clincher when I went up on stage just to practice just to walk and I had to say, my 32nd speech, or whatever it was, I completely hyperventilated and froze and could not speak at all at all. And I was there. Like, I It was awful. I mean, it was so terrible. It was embarrassing, even though it was just a small group. It wasn’t the real audition or whatever. But I realized, wow, I need to grow in this area. And I was petrified I could walk that was no problem, but to speak, speak. It was awful. So what I did was I reached out, I was in a group. And I reached out and said, Hey, I’m really struggling here. Does anyone have any suggestions? Because I don’t know what I’m going to do with this. I already committed to be in this.

Renee 16:24
And it’s actually Chris Boerhaave. You know, Chris, yeah, he’s the one who entered, he invited me into this Toastmasters group, he said, Hey, you should come check it out. And so I went, and it completely changed my life completely. Because I learned how to have that confidence and how to, there’s that diamond in the rough already, I’m sure there was some kind of skill behind or not skilled at slung something behind, because most of us do have something within that needs to come out, but didn’t have the confidence or the skills in order to make that happen. So honestly, it didn’t go well, my the pageant thing when I spoke, I hadn’t, I didn’t have enough yet have that confidence or that skill. But that is the catalyst for what got me to where I am now to where I’m grateful to be on a stage. I love to be behind a microphone. It’s not that I don’t get nervous, because I feel like that Healthy Nervous thing is a good thing. But that was what it was. So the answer is, yes. I think that there’s always been something there. Because one on one or without a microphone, it’s been great. But there was a big need, I needed a lot of help and work.

Josh 17:35
That’s so funny. You mentioned that because yeah, that was the issue with me was like, I could do a presentation for a couple clients, or a small group. And it was great. It was fine. You put a light on me with a camera and I froze up, I was not myself at all. I was like somebody completely different. I remember, this is probably back in like 2015 Since sorry, by the way, you’re probably seeing the sun come in on my face, but I could never do anything about it at this time when I record these. But I remember I did a video for a networking group and the video guy, you know, we had hung out before and once I got on camera, he was like, Are you alright, man, he seems super nervous. And I just changed completely because of the camera. So I know we’re gonna talk about some things to help with that which is, which is huge.

Josh 18:16
But I just wanted to mention, it’s funny. You talked about like the the three things that were kind of like a sign for you that like, okay, maybe I should do this pageant, which completely changed the trajectory of your professional and personal career sounds like and the same was for me with Toastmasters. I read a couple books, I was on vacation, I was reading a book about communication. And the author mentioned Toastmasters. And I had seen it previously. And Chris, who you mentioned was a Facebook friend. And I knew he was in a Toastmasters group. So I was like, I feel like that’s a sign that I should maybe take the leap and just try this out. So I connect with him. He got me in the group. And but I kind of news to your point. Like I knew there was a reason that I wanted to, I felt like a calling for that.

Josh 18:58
Because I couldn’t do what I do right now with my Josh Hall co stuff if I wasn’t comfortable on camera, and if I wasn’t, you know, getting better at communicating in general, podcasting is a great method, a great platform for getting better. I’m already trying to, like shorten my, you know, be more concise, shorten my sentences, although I’m probably rambling on now. But it’s all work in progress. But yeah, totally true. You hit some really good points there. So it was interesting that you kind of had an event that Yeah, cuz I didn’t really have any of those type of situations where I may be completely froze up either. I did have some uncomfortable situations with certain presentations.

Josh 19:35
And I think for web designers, one reason I’m so passionate about this is because a lot of times we’re in positions where we have to present for a group. And like I know for me there was a couple times where I would have a website design ready to show the client, they would invite me out to their business. I had no idea there was gonna be like eight people in the room. I thought it was me one on one and that there was a couple situations like that that made me go I need to be prepared prepared for this. And a lot of my audience does, too. So, so yeah, with that in mind, like, you know, joining a Toastmasters group, which is a global community is something I’m sure you and I both recommend anything that’s speaking related or communication related, but maybe to get started with some practical things like where would you suggest people start when it comes to getting better at speaking and you know, better on camera, just communication?

Renee 20:24
That’s a really good question. Because you and I both did start in the same spot with Toastmasters, which is a great organization. I’m sure there are plenty of other organizations as well. I know in Columbus, there’s something called speakeasy. And I’m sure you could Google and there’ll be plenty of places or organizations that you can try out like that definitely putting a plug for Toastmasters. But I know that there’s a lot out there. And when I think about other ways, I think about the fact that it really means doing it getting out there. And it took me being forced on a stage, it took you taking action and putting yourself in the position to be able to recognize your needs and what where you could improve.

Renee 21:11
I think for any of our listeners, right now, it could be formatting or like formulating your own group, put something together, have a videographer come in, if you’re in a networking group offer to do a presentation, put yourself in the position to find out and it can be a safe position, it could be just a few friends, maybe you whether it’s a networking group, or whether it’s could be your family, whatever it is, put yourself in that position, and have a camera, have a microphone, even if it’s fake, it doesn’t matter, have lights on you. Because it does make a difference. There’s something about that stage presence, but put yourself in that position, and have a safe place where you will get valuable feedback. And I think that is where Toastmasters are super helpful. Like you said, the construction, the criticism that you get constructive criticism is going to be so beneficial because you trust you know, the people want to help you improve. If you don’t have those people around you, I don’t think that we’re going to improve no matter what industry we’re in.

Josh 22:17
That’s a great point, man, you just got me inspired to like start a whole public speaking course or school or something. Because I was like, I would love to help people with that. Like, I know, some of my students have asked me about that. And I’ve told them because they want to get better on camera, they’re starting their own web design businesses, and they know they’re going to be presenting, they’re going to be meeting people, they’re going to do videos for social media, and they want to get better. And they asked like, how do you get better. And what you just said is huge, you just have to do it, you have to do something, you don’t necessarily have to speak in an auditorium in front of hundreds or 1000s of people.

Josh 22:49
But by simply turning on a camera and putting a light behind it or even just your camera, just your phone. And just Yeah, doing like trials, just testing it out. Because that was for me. Again, I was so comfortable in a groups like a smaller group setting or one on one. And as soon as there is a camera on me, I get really nervous. And I think I’m not sure why I mean, there were certainly some self conscious and self esteem issues there. But I think more of it was like, the idea that I’m being recorded. And everything I say is going to be repeated or you know, like combed over. Now, I don’t give a crap about that. But back then it was very, that idea was daunting, you know, particularly when it comes to something being repeated and watched over and over and over again. But you get over that really quick when you do any sort of videos or, or social media or anything like that. So that’s huge. Yeah, getting in front of people, or, you know, getting in front of a camera, I think is number one, that’s probably one of the best things you can do.

Josh 23:46
And then you can watch it over and judge yourself which we’re all our worst critiques. And it has its pros and cons. The cool thing about doing it in a group setting and having that constructive criticism is when you do it yourself, you might just be like, Oh my gosh, I suck. I don’t even want to ever move forward with this. Whereas when you do it with a group that’s giving you constructive criticism, you can think like, Oh, I was terrible, but they might see things like you said, like you saw something in me that was inspiring, you know, and maybe I was I wasn’t near as polished as I am now. But there was like some really good.

Josh 24:21
There was there was a lot of potential there. And I think that’s where having some sort of group would be huge to now like the networking group. Same thing for me. That was another area where we did presentations, like every couple months, and my first few presentations today. They were rough. I was you know, I had a piece of paper delivered it. Oh, that’s right. That’s right. I tested one Yeah, yeah, I tested one and it was terrible at Toastmasters. And I did awesome the next day because I like I got the rust off and I you know you guys gave me such good criticism and I do really good the next day. But yeah, even before that, I remember my first few presentations, because it’s one thing When you talk one on one or with a small group, but once you get to like 15 or 20 people, and there’s, you know, 30 eyeballs on you, that’s, it makes you feel a little, a little fuzzy inside, you know, not in the best way sometimes.

Josh 25:11
So, I think that’s huge though, because you know, it’s important to think about this. So yeah, getting, you know, just practicing in front of a camera, I think is huge. Everyone can do that. We all have cameras on our phones, and we can just, you know, test it out. Any chance you get to join a group, any sort of, you know, where there’s constructive criticism, or a group mentality that’s supportive, that’s huge. A situation that’s a little more legit, like a networking group where you present or maybe at a Chamber of Commerce event or something like that, where you have to present that’s always good, because you kind of want to get comfortable, you can kind of put it on the line, and it may not be perfect, but will be a step in the right direction. But yeah, I think that’s huge. I mean, would you have any other thoughts as far as some of the initial things that people can do?

Renee 25:55
It just dawned on me, what I typically tell people when I’m coaching them on this, is to challenge them to just do Facebook Live. And when people think about live, they are so scared. But the reason to go live is because you cannot stop, you could stop it, but you’re not going to stop it, you’re going to keep going regardless, you’re going to be more natural, you’re not going to keep hitting the stop button to get the perfect video there. There is no perfect video guys, like at all. And people are forgiving, especially in a live community, but allows you to become more comfortable. So I challenge people to go ahead and do that for five days a week, like set, set a goal, and say I’m going to do this and have a message.

Renee 26:45
And as a web designer, you have a message, you’re doing this for a reason. It’s not because oh, just everyone needs a website, and I might as well do it. No, you have a purpose behind it, you have your own flair, you have some kind of a passion behind it, and a reason that you’re doing it more than just paying the bills. So discover what that is. And then share about it. You have things to offer, do five different lessons. And they’re just tips really simple. And just like Josh does, pull those out, go Facebook Live and practice. So even before you have the Chamber of Commerce, because I think that that’s probably a step that you’d be thinking, yeah, right. I’m not going to go do that right now. Good point, get out there and just do Facebook Live, or Instagram TV, or whatever you use. I’m kind of old school. So whatever you do, just do it live and make yourself do it. Don’t go beyond five minutes that way you and you’ll feel like wow, that’s a long time at first, if you are not typically doing this, I just have a tip and keep practicing.

Josh 27:49
That’s a great, that’s a really good idea. I did my Tuesday quick tips, I did a tip for almost every Tuesday of 2019. I did not do them live however I did because some were more like tutorial based. So I did like screen shares and stuff. But you got me thinking that maybe I’ll do like a live segment because I have only the only live thing I’ve ever done are webinars for some of my courses. And you’re right, that is a completely different ballgame. Because when when I do a tutorial or a video, I’ll often screw up the intro multiple times, and then I’ll file I feel good. Once I feel good, then I just keep it going. Now what’s interesting about that, and then maybe I’ll link to this in the show notes for this episode. But I have a behind the scenes video of me putting one of my courses together. And the reason I say that is you’ll see me mess up some of these video intros multiple times.

Josh 28:38
But what I’ve found is I’m always a little rusty on that first video. Like if I have five videos I want to knock out for a section of a course. The first video always takes me a few tries to get going. And it seems like once I move forward, I’m locked in. And so it’s interesting, like and then I could bust out five videos very quick. And I could you know, I never recreate an intro or anything. So I found that to be the case. And even with the podcasting, you know what we’re doing is not live technically, but I didn’t, you know, start an intro and say, Well, let me stop and do that better. Because you’re here to your time is valuable. And I don’t want you know, you waiting on me to make the perfect intro. So that’s kind of a thing to like, even when you do interviews or anything that’s more person to person or live base Yeah, forces you to just kind of to do it. And if it’s not great, you just move past it and learn from it.

Josh 29:27
But great, great idea, huge for businesses on Facebook to because Facebook loves. Not only do they love video, but they love live, because anything that you can do side note just as a social media thing. Anything you can do, that is engaging people on is live and is on the platform, so you’re not redirecting people to YouTube or somewhere else. It’s huge, huge. Facebook is gonna bump you up in their algorithms to show you to people of your life. So yeah, that’s a great idea. Really, really great now, when people are starting to feel more comfortable. Maybe that’s a good time to segue to Some of the more advanced things that people can do, like, obviously, getting in front of a more professional audience or a bigger audience is huge.

Josh 30:08
Maybe putting together more like serious videos, or I know for me doing when I got into doing tutorials I did, like I said, a 12 tutorial goal, I was going to do a tutorial a week, and it forced me to do it every week. So I just didn’t, you know, try on camera once and then forget about it. Are those some tips? Or would you have any other tips that you would recommend for people to take the next step with all that once they start feeling a little more comfortable?

Renee 30:33
Yeah, I like your idea of being held accountable. So again, it takes me back to Yeah, maybe we just start this group for web designers are getting their content out there. But having some kind of accountability group to where you are presenting, and it needs to be done at this point. If it’s not within your own industry, maybe you are going to be doing it for a client and you’re setting up specifically, no, I’m going to give content to my clients on a newsletter or a link, something like that to where it is keeping you accountable. And you’re going to keep improving and getting better. But you also can continue to learn. And you can invest in yourself, whether it’s watching with that, without watching AI, instead of just watching just to learn about the topic that you’re watching of YouTube videos, or people that you look up to watch and see what they’re doing. When they sound really smart. Maybe it’s not just the words, maybe there’s something else that you can glean, you can learn it might be that pods, it might be that they’re using their hands, and they have a visual component.

Renee 31:40
But there’s these these deeper skills that as one improves, they can continue to pick up on those and add them into their their toolbox, instead of just speaking. But again, I think I think that once you start speaking, and you get more confident, and you can breathe, then those things come natural. And once you’re learning and you’re in tune with them, like the arms and the eyes and my filler word of choices, typically. So you’ll start to notice those and then you can feel comfortable going back and looking at your weekly or whatever, you’re making content. And you can listen for those things. And you can start to check mark and say, Oh, I only said five of those filler words this week. Or look, I’m starting to use my hands and look, my facial expressions are coming out and I look more alive. People are more interested in watching. So those are some of those as you progress and feel more comfortable and confident. Those little skills that you can be adding in there.

Josh 32:45
That’s great. Yeah, I was excited knew we were going to talk about filler words. And I’m very excited because that’s something that I’ve struggled with and I’ve continuously tried to get better at. And Toastmasters really helped out with that. Because for dang it. There’s one right there. For people who aren’t familiar with Toastmasters, you’ll get like a well that was a filler word right there, you’ll get generally a report that will tell you Okay, Josh, you said like three times, four times. So a couple times, you know, is a big one. That’s probably the biggest one that I struggled with when I listened back to the podcast, just to your point. I don’t listen to it to say like, Man, I am just I am speaking good. I’m listening. Because I want to hear how can I get better? Am I rambling? Am I using too many filler words? I’ve already noticed in all my conversations that I say you know a lot, which is a filler word.

Josh 33:36
Another big one in the entrepreneurial space is right? Before like, you know you want to do this, right? That is a filler word unless it’s used in a different context. If you say right, looking for acknowledgement, a lot of times that is a filler word. So there’s all these little filler words that you may you probably don’t even recognize you do until you see yourself or hear yourself on audio or camera. But to your point, I think that’s so valuable what you said, which is to look at it with a learning through a learning lens instead of just eating in yourself, obviously, but what other people are doing just just to your point, and I know I started doing that unintentionally. I watched people give tutorials. And I thought that’s really good. I like how they do that. But I feel like I could do this better. Or maybe I would do it a little bit differently.

Josh 34:21
Same thing with podcasting. I listened to so many podcasts for a handful of years now. And I kind of took what I liked and what resonated with me, even just the format of the show, and how I talk and how I come across and I’ve tried to kind of put that into this show. So wow, what great advice. Yeah, looking at it through a learning lens, not a just a consuming lens or however you want to call it. Now with filler words. Let’s touch on that more practically. I think that’s huge because, again, particularly if you’re just getting started out you’re gonna have a lot of filler words more than likely. Yeah. What are some tips that you would recommend that would help with that? Obviously, we talked about it group, if they like, give you accountability. They you know, that’ll help. What are some other tips for getting rid of those likes and ohms and SOS and you knows and rights and all those filler words.

Renee 35:11
Good! Double edged sword for myself. But when I am listening to other people, I remember when it first became poignant to me and I was, I was watching myself looking for them, I would go to a church service. And I’m like, Oh, my goodness, this pastor, I can’t even focus anymore, because he says, like, all you can hear is the filler words. So I don’t necessarily think it’s the best idea to try this at church or at a place where you want to pay attention. But if you are paying attention to other people, and you start listening, what are other people’s filler words? What is it that is distracting, and what’s not distracting? If you want to have a conversational type of either podcast or tutorial, and it’s your personality, my personality is not super, super formal.

Renee 36:03
So I’ve learned that for myself, I have to know how I want to speak. And I need to know who I am, in order to know how I want to be seen, and you know how to convey myself. So I think that getting to know your type of speech. And what you want it to sound like, is going to be helpful, because then you can be a, you can be a positive critic of yourself, instead of just like, Oh, my goodness, I said, like two seconds ago, and I started it again and getting consumed with it. So there’s that there’s that critiquing yourself listening to other people to be able to hear what’s distracting or what isn’t. And continuing to get better knowing what some of those filler words are, knowing your own is huge.

Josh 36:47
Really good point. It is interesting, because we all have our own tendencies for filler words. And it may be like, one of the things I was just thinking about was why even worry about filler words, because it seems like society in general, it’s not the 1920s anymore, where everyone has a certain way of talking. And there’s probably not as many likes or sows or arms, people I think took communication a little more. Just like you said, you know, kind of stuffy in a way to where it was a little more proper. It’s a little different now, but there’s so much value I’ve found with getting rid of filler words even it’s just on a subconscious level for clients and for people in the professional world. You can sound like a little kid, when you say like and and so too much. And I think for me personally, I don’t know about urinate. But that’s one reason I wanted to get rid of a lot of these filler words is because I felt like it made me a little more unprofessional, but also just, yeah, just it didn’t give me that expert status that I was looking for. Are there any other reasons you think it’s good to kind of try to work towards getting rid of filler words?

Renee 37:54
I think it allows for larger words, better vocabulary to come in many times as filler words, let’s kind of consider them like cuss words. It’s not I mean, some people are fine with swear words. And I’m not here to judge one way or another myself. I don’t typically use those. But when I hear other people say them, I think hmm, that’s just it’s not only unprofessional, but it doesn’t allow for it just looks ignorant. There’s so many more colorful, wonderful ways to be able to say that. And filler words are the same. They add in those filler that fluff instead of bringing back to the main point, like you said, rambling, we all tend to do it. I know I can be a Rambler sure I’d have even in the last few minutes. And that being said, if I’m more cognizant, and I’m thinking about it, I’m going to ramble less. And I’m going to get rid of some of that filler junk. And hopefully you some better words that are going to resonate better with people instead of just like so. And, you know, it’s really important

Josh 38:58
to be intentional about it, too. I was just about I could tell I was gonna say something and I was just about to say, you know, which is a filler. Just being more intentional about it just this conversation is forced me to kind of rethink about that. That’s a great point that you get a chance to put in better words more articulation. And yeah, I agree with you. A lot of times, I feel like cussing is kind of a lazy way out of something. The other important aspect is something you touched on in the beginning, which was the power of a pause. Sometimes, a little silence in the conversation or presentation goes a long way because it allows your audience or whoever you’re talking to your client, your customer or an audience if you’re speaking to them, it allows them to process what you’re saying. And it gives them a chance to put their own thought into it before you move on. Whereas if you fill that up with filler words, or you just keep on rambling and rambling point to point to point to point and give no sense of a chance to like breathe the conversation That’s a really big one too. And I think somebody mentioned that the Toastmasters group, and it’s it’s stuck with me ever since the power of the pause,

Renee 40:09
has and slowing down. Typically, when we first get started, we feel like we need to hurry and get it all out there. But being able to slow down to think, and allowing ourselves to is going to be powerful as well. So sorry, go ahead.

Josh 40:28
Oh, no, no, absolutely, please. I didn’t mean to cut you off there.

Renee 40:31
No, I was just thinking when we pause, that not only many times, it’s when we would be putting in another sentence or word or filler. But it allows us time to not only look more professional, but to collect our thoughts and to think. And then also our audience gets time to think and collect their thoughts and think about what was just said. So it’s kind of threefold there.

Josh 40:57
That’s a great point. It’s funny, when I started doing tutorials, one of the first comments I got that was a little more on the negative side was it wasn’t terribly, like trolling negative, but some dude was like, Dude, you talk way too fast. And my first reaction was to be upset. But then I was like, You know what? I think he’s right, I am talking a little fast. And it’s natural, particularly if you’re not comfortable yet on camera, or speaking in front of people. If you’re nervous, your system is amplified, and you’re just gonna talk faster. So that’s a really, really good point, just two deep breaths, slow it down. I know, that’s, I don’t know if you have any tips for slowing down. But I know, just like taking deep breaths and be intentional, you may feel like you’re talking really slow. But chances are, you’re probably talking in a normal pace. If you’re really nervous and amped up. Have you felt? Have you found that in your speaking to divers?

Renee 41:50
I know for myself, when I’m picturing myself talking, I used to be the person that was because I was so nervous. And I remember Bill, if you remember Bill, not to tag him on that. But he helped me so much as my mentor. And he would say, slow down and putting that visual image and thinking of him sitting in the audience thinking, Okay, what would he be saying right now? Would he give me a thumbs up? Or would he say that was helpful for me. The other thing is, I’m a note taker. And if a person is talking super fast, whether it’s a tutorial, if I have to keep hitting pause, over and over. And if I’m unable to take notes when I’m at a presentation, because they’re speaking so quickly, that’s I’m losing a lot of the content. So even though they’re giving wonderful content for me to absorb, I’m not absorbing it, that is a good motivator for me to make sure that I’m slowing down and circling back to the main points.

Josh 42:55
That’s Wow, that’s so so poignant to something that I just did, because I did a presentation last week. And it was five points on how websites how to better convert websites, and a handful of people were taking notes. And I literally thought about that I was like, I need to make sure that they have time to write these down. And I’m not busting through them too fast, or they’re not comprehending what I’m saying. That’s a really, really go. And I was just gonna say it’s a golden thought. Because as a web designers, if you’re meeting with a client, and they’re taking notes on what you’re presenting, yeah, you have to give them time to process that which is huge. And this is why I love this already. Because I knew we were going to cover some really super important things that web designers can apply. Because these are all things that I’ve experienced.

Josh 43:41
And I’ll be honest, when I got started in my career, number one, I didn’t know I was gonna start my own business. So I didn’t really think about taking this too seriously. But a lot of this stuff, I really didn’t dawn on me until several years in that I have got to get serious about my communication, I’ve got to get serious about how I come across when I present. And I heard a quote, years ago that has stuck with me ever since. And it’s something to the effect of the quality of your life will depend on how well you communicate. And every every everything in life, right? Whether it’s business, whether it’s relationships, marriage, less you communicate worse, things are gonna be straight up, which is why a lot of times I think you see so much strife and anger in people who just don’t communicate or maybe, you know, low incomes, places that just don’t have the opportunities that a higher income place will have to learn better communication and things like that.

Josh 44:41
By golly, now I’m going to be excited that start something for other people, you know, like, I just think it’s so so important. And I can already hear myself saying like, so I’m already excited to get back to this conversation and they all want to kind of do better. But, you know, to your point with the whole slowing down. I’ve thought of that when I listen to some of these conversations. as well, and I know that’s something that people can, can really take a hold of. And that’s something that’s easy to apply, because it’s really all about being intentional and just slowing down. Now, one thing you mentioned, Bill, one thing he really helped me with, and obviously, no one knows who Bill is. But he’s an older gentleman who is, he is just awesome. He, he would get up there, he could have nothing prepared and kill and half an hour presentation. And he was like a total pro.

Josh 45:28
One thing he really helped me with was what to do with my hands. And it goes back to that Ricky, Bobby thing, I don’t know what to do with my hands when he’s in an interview. And when you’re sitting down, like right now, my hands are hidden, pretty much. So I can play with my wedding ring, or I can move them in the chair. But when you’re standing up in front of people, and this is a big one, too, that I found practically, I would get presentation to clients with my computer. And I was fine, because I was typing and I was showing them.

Josh 45:56
But if I was in a situation where I stood up in front of the board of seven or eight people, my hands are free, or I’ve got a clicker. And then I’m like, Oh, I don’t know what to do with this my big thing. And what a lot of dudes struggle with is this. And for those of you not watching on video is twiddling your wedding ring, if you have one, or playing with any sort of, if you have any bracelets or anything that you can kind of Finnick with fidget with that’s that’s a big one. He really helped me with that. And his solution was just let your hands dangle. Just let them be a part of your body. Did you have did you find that you had a lot of things like that, where you had to really work on situations that may have been different if you’re holding something versus your hands are free?

Renee 46:41
Absolutely. And it was it was one of the skills that came later. It wasn’t just the very first you know, Facebook Live, get out there and put something out there or table topics, which is where you just have that one to two minute talk to answer a question. But as I became intentional, and as I continued to hone in Yes, I struggled with I didn’t have the wedding ring thing. I had more of the poll, I think I’d held my hands like this. And it looked very, like I’m I’m very nervous, or I’m holding it all together.

Renee 47:16
The other thing is if there’s a lectern, many people are hiding behind the lectern. And once that’s removed, they don’t know what to do, which is okay to start with. But as you progress, and as you get better, and as you’re not behind this computer screen, or the microphone, that’s just sitting there kind of covering up, you need to figure out what to do so that you are competent. Again, I think a lot of this goes back to once they know what to do. We can, like you said, breathe, we can be ourselves, we can be confident we can speak to 600 people or six people or just one person and have it be, hey, this is who I am. This is me. I have something valuable to share with you. I’m going to do that right now. And not have to be any different.

Josh 48:04
Yeah, that’s so valuable. I was just thinking back to a few months ago, I spoke at a web designer meetup. And my presentation went pretty darn well, all things considered Now had I not gone through Toastmasters. And had I not really worked on this, it may have been a different story, I probably would have been a lot more nervous. But even my wife was like, wow, cuz she came and she was like that was I can’t believe you were able to present like that. And it’s because I was intentional. But I say that to say at the end, we did a q&a session.

Josh 48:36
And even when I was giving my presentation, I still get those nerves, which maybe we can talk about that next because it’s not necessarily a bad thing. But I found that when I did the q&a, I was completely relaxed. My limbs felt more relaxed, my hands were natural. And it was because I was more conversational. And that’s one thing that I’ve really tried to take in with all my videos and everything I do, whether it’s a tutorial, whether it’s a vlog, or whether it’s a course video, is to try to be more conversational with it. And to your point earlier, you have to find who you are like how do you talk? How do you talk in real life? That’s how you should come across. In camera. Not everyone has to sound like you. Not everyone has to sound like me. We need to be our own. But I know for me, my goal was to be more conversational in general. And I think that’s a really big one. Did you find that you had a certain flair when it came to presenting?

Renee 49:29
Yeah, I’m just like you if I can have that conversation, if I can engage with the audience. I do so much better. And that’s why we were having I think off camera here we were having a discussion about podcasting versus video versus you know, different ways that we can communicate whether we’re web designer or author, speaker. Whatever we do, we’re going to have to communicate and we just need to pick the best way for us. If I am speaking in a podcast format, I am not as aware of myself, if I can see another person’s face, then I feel more engaged.

Renee 50:07
And I’m more myself, I love to engage with the audience, I love to get feedback, I like to be able to ask questions, and see and read my audience and know where they are and how they’re either receiving the information or if they look confused. Those verbal, or I’m sorry, those, those facial cues are very helpful for me. So that’s what I appreciate most is when I’m in a large group, and I’m able to ask questions, I can even go walk the audience and ask for feedback and have them raise their hands, ask questions during the speaking. So that’s my preference. But that’s not always the we’re not always able to do that.

Josh 50:44
Yeah, I was just thinking one of my courses recently had I did five, yeah, five webinars. And I found webinars as much as I enjoyed them. I’m so glad I did this stuff before I got to that, because webinars are a completely different ballgame. To your reason being is to your point, when I started the camera up, and I went live, I saw, I think the first one there was like 16 people watching. But I don’t see those people, I have no idea how they react. And I don’t know if they’re smiling, or they’re enjoying it. Or if they’re going, Oh, my gosh, when’s this gonna be over? Or are they just gonna sign off? It, it was pretty difficult because I had to have a really engaging conversation with myself until their questions came in.

Josh 51:27
Now, the way I did, it was a presentation, I spoke on like a 20 or 30 minute topic. And then we did a q&a, which worked out pretty well. But just wanted to say, yeah, there are different forms of this. And it’s, I think it’s important to be well versed to all of them. So if you’re just doing an audio call with somebody, you kind of know how to handle that being that you can’t see him, or vice versa, if you need to be on camera feeling more comfortable and feeling good about that. Now, with that idea of starting to feel more comfortable. One thing I’d love to get your take on is the nervousness, the anxiousness that we might feel whether it’s getting on camera, like I mentioned, before, soon as a light and a camera was on me, I just froze up and I turned into somebody I did not recognize, I still feel a little antsy when that happens. And I feel much more anxious when I’m in front of a group.

Josh 52:18
However, what I’ve really worked on and what I’ve tried to do, and I’ve heard this in a number of different videos I’ve seen and some books that I’ve went through, is to take that energy and use it from a negative to a positive. So it’s okay to get in front of the group and feel these butterflies. If anything, it just means that you’re excited about that. And normally, you know, that could cripple you and your case, like maybe you just you didn’t know how to handle that anxiousness or anxiety. But if you can turn that into good positive energy, express yourself with it, I found that to be super beneficial. Do you have any other ideas on using that energy in good ways?

Renee 52:58
That’s really good. I like that. And I don’t know if I’ve heard specifically that as an explanation. I really like that. I know for myself, I typically give myself some space before I speak. And I personally, you know, I’m the prayerful type. So I’m putting myself in the position to where I’m reminding myself of why I’m speaking, I’m giving myself that that boost of there’s a reason for this, there’s power in what you’re going to say, there’s an audience that needs to hear this message. So go give it your best. They need this, they need you they need to know about for you, you’re their website, they need to know what options are, what I’m going to share with them is going to impact their business, it’s going to impact their income and their influence. So they need to hear this they need.

Renee 53:49
That’s one thing that helps me to feel powerful to be able to get past the nervousness in a negative way. And yes, I do also feel that too. A few months ago, I had the opportunity to speak before guests about 600 businessmen and women and international people from all over the world. And I had been not feeling very well. I felt a little intimidated in some ways. Especially because of the content I was going to be speaking on. It was the first time speaking on this very sensitive topic. So when I went up there, I felt like, Okay, this is it. It doesn’t matter who is out there. There’s somebody that needs to hear this. And I am just going to give it my best. I gave myself some space beforehand for about five or 10 minutes alone quietly, went up on stage, and just gave it my best and it turned out to be wonderful, so much great feedback. And I feel like part of that is because of the preparation. If we rush into things we’re taking we’re taking energy and just mushing it all together versus really honing it in to where it needs to be.

Josh 55:06
That’s a very powerful thought with the idea of you being more like a vessel or a conduit to, you got to kind of get out of your own way, right when it comes to getting a message across. And I’ve never really thought about that intentionally. But now that I think about what I’ve done with this endeavor, and with my tutorials and courses is those people like my audience may enjoy hearing what I have to say, but the majority of them don’t want to just hear me ramble, they want to be impacted by a certain topic, or they want to hear something from my lessons learned or my experience that will benefit them. And that’s totally fine. That’s why they’re here. And that’s what my job is, like, I need to get out of my own way, and convey that. And that is something that’s helped me when I started doing my tutorials. I was a little self conscious of how I talked or whether I was going too fast and my filler words and all that.

Josh 55:55
But as soon as to your point, I thought about, okay, they’re gonna watch a 10 minute tutorial. They want to know this, this and this, and this is the result they want to get, how quickly can I get this across and make it entertaining and fun and be who I am. And that was it. I really, really helped me feel less nervous, because I got out of my own way. And I was like, you know, what, if they liked me, awesome, they don’t all get a bad YouTube comment. And I’m not going to think twice about it. So that’s really powerful that thought of, you know, you being more of a Yeah, I guess, maybe there’s a better terminology for but you know, you’re just a conduit for getting a message across the you know, they’re not necessarily just here to gawk at you. They want to hear something impactful. Question for you. Is that the most? Is that the most amount of people that you’ve ever spoke in front of? The 600? So

Renee 56:44
I believe so at least as a me being the topic I’ve been in front of onstage probably have more people. But as me being the speaker, correct?

Josh 56:57
Did it feel any different than a Toastmasters? You know? 20 group 20 People group?

Renee 57:03
Yes, absolutely. When you have videographer and camera in your face, when you can’t see the audience very well, because the lights are that bright when you have a slideshow that you’re running and hoping that everything goes smoothly and you don’t hear from.

Josh 57:19
Yeah, no pressure.

Renee 57:21
Feel. But I will tell you that we have been speaking quite a bit over at the Abbey Theatre with the Toastmasters group, and that is on a stage. And it’s the theater seating. It gives a great feel. And we have had a great photographer with his name’s Mark, Mark and Shelley photography, give kudos to him, he’s great. And helping us to be able to have those kind of opportunities so that when they come, you’re comfortable with it, you’re not hiding running away from the camera. Instead, you’re engaging, and you’re learning how to have lots of different things going on, but still keep your focus. And the main thing on the main thing.

Josh 57:59
That’s interesting, I didn’t realize it was in that type of setup. Now, when I was in the group a couple years ago, it was more like what I’m accustomed to, where if I go into an office, there’s going to be some conference tables. And I’m going to have a projector, or I’m going to be in one end of the conference table and talk like that. But that has a whole different feel to your point than being on a stage and there’s lights. And I that’s interesting about the idea of not being able to see the audience do you like that? Or do like, I feel like I would just feel a little weird if I couldn’t see the audience, although maybe that’s a little more to what I’m accustomed to now, because I talk to myself all the time. Every time I do a video, I see a bright light and a camera and I’m just talking to myself. Maybe I’m used to that now. But yeah, does that feel different?

Renee 58:45
It feels different to me, I like I said, I do prefer to have the ability to walk out in the audience, too. And I did have the the ear I didn’t have that help the handheld microphone, I had the ear buds, so perhaps I could have but I don’t believe it would have been beneficial for what I was doing at that time. But I do think it’s very different to not be able to see the audience, I prefer to be able to see that interaction. But again, it goes back to being comfortable with who we are really is the important part. I like how you simplified it into Yes, we are just a conduit. But even more than that, I think it goes back to remembering why are we being so self conscious? What is it that we are doing? We’re comparing ourselves to other people, to our own expectations to others, other people’s expectations of ourselves.

Renee 59:46
And those are the kinds of things that stop us. And I would be curious to know if we could do a poll right now. How many people would be nervous to go on Facebook live right now? And what would the reasons be and my guess would be if you’re a female, I’m not dressed, right? I don’t have makeup on or my hair is a mess. Typically, it’s going to be something along the lines of the physical when it comes to video. So if that is you, then I challenge you. Who cares? Is it what you have to say? Or is it how you look? Do you really care? If people think, Oh, she doesn’t have makeup on today? That’s it doesn’t matter. That’s not who we are. If it’s not the physical than many times, it’s the assets, which is another aspect of comparison that we get stuck in. It’s Oh, my microphones not good enough.

Renee 1:00:39
Or my video, it’s not the best. Or perhaps it’s, I’m in an atmosphere that is so dumpy looking, I don’t have the perfect pristine office. Again, I would ask you to figure that out if that is what’s stopping you. And make yourself do it wherever you are getting the practice of just stopping those role plays of what are people going to think. And that will help. And the last type of comparison roadblock is the Oh, yes, the abilities and the achievements. And you might be thinking, Oh, I’m just a web designer, what do I have to share? Or Josh is so much better than I am? And he already has, he has all these awards? He has all these clients, I only have two clients, who am I what do I have to share? We’re comparing ourselves against other people’s achievements. And I would say just stop it.

Renee 1:01:34
Stop comparing yourself, get your act together to share something that’s going to be a value to someone, don’t worry about the masses, don’t worry about what anyone else has already done or achieved. And just think about what is something right now that you have that you can share with somebody else, and speak to that one person, speak to your former stuck self, if you didn’t always know what you know. So you have something that’s going to help someone speak to that person, do it, practice it, and you’re going to you’re going to plow through those roadblocks.

Josh 1:02:07
Just gonna say you’re, you’re dropping the mic here, Renee, it’s you’re dishing out such good advice for not only video and speaking but just, I think the power of sharing what you know, even if it’s to the former you from a month ago, that is so powerful, because there are people who were there who were in your shoes just a little while ago that you can be impactful for. And of course, I’m a huge proponent of that, in my you know, what I’ve learned, in my experience with giving back to the community, I gave so much information away for free for so long that a lot of people are like, you’re giving so much away, like what’s the end goal with this, and I, maybe it wasn’t the best business decision financially. But I’m glad I did what I did, because I gave so much away for free for so long that it did build an audience that now I can engage them. And it’s kind of paying off through courses and stuff.

Josh 1:02:58
But that idea is so so crucial. And something else I don’t want to forget that you mentioned there was the idea of like, why don’t have the best gear or my office is you know, whatever. Let me tell you something, and you can I’m sure he’ll back me up on this. People are starving for people to be genuine. Yeah, and that non fake. It’s just different. Now, maybe 20 years ago, it was a little different to where people wanted more professional, pristine, but now, whatever type of medium or video you do, you can do it with this right here with a phone that is the majority, like a lot of people are putting really good content out with just that. And yeah, like I have a professional mic and a ring light. Even this stuff is fairly low cost. Like I’m not in some fancy studio. It’s just a couple lights in my office and a decent mic. But even that is high end for what I do like a camera phone is fine doing video like that. So yeah, you really don’t need it’s not about the tech to get your message across.

Josh 1:03:58
It’s about your mission and how you’re going to get I mean, how many videos are viral? Not because they like Did you see that microphone? That is? Dang, it’s no it’s the it’s the message. It’s what somebody has to say. So gosh, that’s such such valuable advice. I think particularly for people who are nervous or self conscious, which I think at some point we all are for whatever reason it is the image thing was interesting. You mentioned you talked about that because yesterday I had on my schedule to do a video that I just published. It’s about six tips for taking an online course. And I didn’t get a chance to shave and I am not blessed with the beard jeans of others.

Josh 1:04:38
So when mine comes in, it’s like straight trash. It’s not like a nice Ryan Reynolds. You know, handsome rugged look. It’s like oh my gosh, where’s the trailer? Josh needs to go back there because it is it is patchy. We we just watched Joe Dirt the other night and it cracked me up because like oh my gosh, he talks about it growing and patches and I’m like I’m in the patch club. But uh, but I say that to say like, I almost didn’t do the video because I didn’t get to shave and I guess I could have shaved beforehand. But I was like, You know what? I’m in my office, the girls are taking Mom’s got the girls right now it’s a good time. That’s another thing with with babies and family, as you know, you got teenagers, you got to work when you can work. But I was just like, you know, I’m going to do the video. Maybe I’m a little scruffy or a little trashy looking. But if somebody comments on it, I’ll have some fun with it. And I just went with it. Yeah, maybe it’ll make a negative impact for some people. But yeah, it’s it’s different nowadays, isn’t it?

Renee 1:05:34
I think that anytime it would make negative impact, that wasn’t your ideal audience. So you just dismissed it. It doesn’t really matter. It’s not something whether it’s a YouTube comments, I’m sure no one’s going to give a bad review. Because I didn’t do my hair or because you didn’t shave. Most typically, if anything, they’re going to give a positive review, because they’re going to be paying more attention to what you have to say instead of looking at amazing hair and a baby smooth face.

Josh 1:06:03
Yeah, good point. I love that’s great. Yeah, cuz, you know, going on YouTube, and posting a video, you’re going to get negative comments. I don’t know, do you do anything on YouTube? Or is it mostly all through Facebook?

Renee 1:06:16
Mostly through Facebook? I have a couple things out there that you won’t find.

Josh 1:06:20
Gotcha. Yeah, YouTube is just, you know, it’s a breeding ground for awful comments. But I’ve learned I learned very quickly not to internalize those, and just to disregard them right away, just because it’s not the Yeah, yeah, those aren’t the people you’re you even want to talk to, you know, hopefully, you encourage them in some way. Because I do think that everyone, you know, needs to be reached to at some point. But if they’re going to leave a terrible comment, or just bash me for something that isn’t even worth bashing, it needs to, you know, I have had low moments before where I got into a little I started looking at negative comments, and I responded to him. But I had to learn from that very quickly, that that is not the way that those comments are still probably out there where I commented negatively, negatively to somebody but super important not to let that internalize in you.

Josh 1:07:08
Now, the idea of constructive criticism, how I was gonna ask, like how you can be constructive for yourself, I mean, the idea of like, learning from your past videos, or what you know, and the idea of speaking is to learn from that. What are some other ways that we can kind of critique ourselves in a good way, because I think that’s a dangerous and I think you kind of alluded to this earlier, it’s, it can be dangerous if you’re critiquing yourself, because you can get very negative and you can kind of put yourself in a spot where you don’t even want to worry about it. What are some ways that you’ve learned are a good way to critique yourself?

Renee 1:07:44
What I’ve learned is an analogy, driving a car. And typically the people that are listening are going to be drivers. So when you’re driving a car, where do you need to look, you always are looking out the front windshield, that is a no brainer. You’ll look out the sides a couple of times, because you need to pass safely. You need to see what your surroundings are. But those are going to be glances. You also will need to look from time to time in your rearview mirror. So you’re looking up in your rearview mirror. But if you focus on that rearview mirror, you’re going to crash. Nobody can just look in the rearview mirror, if you want to go forward, you need to look ahead and only glance side to side, which if you look at the analogy that would be looking at other influencers or looking at other people that are on your same track or lane, you glance you glean something, but then you look right back into your own forward windshield.

Renee 1:08:41
And for yourself, you look into the rearview mirror a couple times you think, Okay, I’m going to take just a second, I’m going to look at my old videos, and I’m going to have a focus. There’s a reason I’m looking in my rearview mirror. It’s not because I’m going to try and stare in it. So I would have a specific focus, I would think, I wonder how I’m doing on filler words. Well, let me pull up this one from two months ago. And compare the two to see how I’ve improved and perhaps I’ve gotten worse because there are times where I take one filler word out and I implement another so we can learn and we can glean from those.

Renee 1:09:18
But I’m not going to stay there because that’s that’s reverse that’s to help me go forward. It’s not to get me stuck or to stay where I’m at. So that’s an analogy that has helped me be able to ask myself, okay, right now I’m having these thoughts. Is it something that is helping me go forward and put the fuel in the gas or am I putting on the brake getting stuck? Am I in reverse right now because all I’m doing is staring in the rearview mirror and looking at how I did something terrible in the past or great in the past and now I’m not doing it? What’s going to help me go forward?

Josh 1:09:55
That’s awesome. Wow, that’s beneficial because hey, it is so easy to look at The rear view mirror isn’t it constantly, particularly when you’re judging yourself and it is good to be your, your, your worst critic a lot of times, but it seems like you could just critique yourself over and over and over. And then it could just go nowhere. And for web designers in particular, I’m sure you’re experiencing this with writing a book, you can probably edit that thing until you die one day, you know, like, you can edit that for years. But at some point, you just got to move forward with it. And I know, for web designers, the big thing is, like, if we work on our own site, we could go back and forth over and over, it’s the typical problem of like, well, I need to redo my site, but I could just never get it done, because I can’t move forward on it. So you know, eyes in the in the front. That is a huge, huge thought, I love that, I think that’s gonna be super beneficial.

Josh 1:10:46
If you have a couple minutes, Renee, I would love to just kind of wrap up, because we’ve talked about some really good things for ways to get started with either being more comfortable on camera, whether it’s presenting, you know, the big thing is just going for it, we covered some kind of intermediate intermediate steps with whether it’s getting involved with a support group, doing live things like that. And we’ve covered some things for more advanced speaking, whether it’s a big group, or whether it’s ways to combat filler words, or what to do with that energy and all that stuff. I would love to just kind of wrap up by Todd, by touching on the comparison stuff that you talked about, because I think that’s so so important. With the idea of speaking, particularly like you said, with web designers, and just creatives in general, I think we tend to look at other people’s work, and we’ll get inspired and then immediately get depressed.

Josh 1:11:37
Because it’s like, wow, that’s awesome. I could never do that, or I’m not that good. Yeah. And I’m sure you’ve experienced that, whether it’s other books or, you know, whatever, whatever outlet it is, but I know I’ve experienced that, and I still will kind of have to combat that. And I know, particularly when I built up my web design agency, I saw some other people who started around the same time I did. And they’re like, crushing it, they have an agency downtown with 10 employees. And part of me was like, Ah, I should I be there, then I realized that you know what, once my girls came, came into play, then I realized that I took the right path for me, because I can work at home, I work whenever I want. I’m kind of working part time right now to enjoy these moments with my with my babies. So I say that to say the idea of comparison is huge on so many levels, but particularly for speaking, can you kind of recap the I think you had like three points? Was it for for comparison? Or how to avoid that or something? Like, can you kind of just touch on that? Because I think that was really valuable? I’d love to hit that topic again.

Renee 1:12:40
Yeah, there are three different roadblocks of comparison, okay. There’s many different ways that we compare, we can really funnel it down into three different ones. And they’re all A’s, which makes it simple, but appearance, assets, and achievements. So when you start to feel those feelings of, okay, I’m not going to be good enough, or Gosh, someone has it better, does it better, or I should be where they are, which we all have felt that way. I’m sure when you’re looking at other people’s websites, you’re constantly thinking, Oh, why didn’t I implement that? Or if only I had that on mind, I should go redo everything. Those are the kinds of thoughts that are going to stall us out. And we need to be able to know what our mission is, we need to know, the way that I put it is, I need to weigh my cost.

Renee 1:13:35
Which means I need to know why am I doing this? And what does it cost me? If I’m not doing it? Is it costing me income? is it costing me and you have to ask yourself, that’s going to be different for each person that like for me, if I don’t get this book out, this message isn’t going to be in other people’s hands is also going to keep bugging out. My mind is driving me nuts like it has to get out. It’s a stress. And there’s other things was related as well for you. It might be kind, I really feel like I need to do either a podcast or a newsletter or a video or I need to speak once a month somewhere, whatever that is, What’s it costing you to not do it. And that’s the W I’m going to give you a formula. So it’s called when so weigh your cost.

Renee 1:14:22
Next, innovate your identity, know who you are, who are you as a person, who are you as a web designer, who are you as an entrepreneur, if you are or an employee, whatever it is that you do, who are you and then innovate that identity. There’s parts of who you are that you may not really like. Perhaps that would be something like you’re not confident, and that’s part of who you are right now. That’s your current ID, your current identity. But innovate that identity and innovate who you are, which means figure out what it is that you Feel like you’re supposed to be, who are you created to be, what kind of what mission, what mission was your business created to do, and have a picture for who you are and what you’re supposed to do. So innovate your identity, know your identity.

Renee 1:15:15
And then n is navigate your journey. This is the behavioral modifications, when it comes to comparison, as an employee, as a business owner, whatever you’re doing in life, personally, relationships, if you don’t modify some of your behaviors, then you’re going to be stuck in the same spinning your tires. However, if you start with that, I guarantee you, you’re not going to get very far. Most of the books, most of the teaching that I’ve heard, and researched has to do with that navigation of knowing our journey and, you know, get off all social media, or just don’t do it, don’t compare, or just stop it. Whereas what I think first you need to do is know why it’s keeping you from what your goal is, weigh your cost, know who you are, so that then you have a correct measuring stick to measure yourself against.

Renee 1:16:13
So no longer are you worrying about the person downtown that has a bigger agency, you’re measuring yourself against who you know you’re created to be, and the business that you are designed to do, instead of somebody else’s. And lastly, if you’re navigating that journey, that behavioral modification, that may mean that you’re not going to look at that person anymore, that you’re not going to go to their Facebook page or their YouTube channel, that you’re going to take a break from that and just focus where you’re not putting ourselves in the position of comparison, because we do have to navigate our journey. If I continue to look in Instagram at all the fitness models, and all the all these people that I’m comparing myself to appearance wise, what am I going to feel like I’m going to feel terrible, I’m not going to care about what my real ideals and my real identity is. So I need to navigate that journey. And that’s how you win in a world of comparison is by winning your cross innovating your identity and navigating your journey.

Josh 1:17:19
That was awesome, are they I think we could take that few minutes right there, that segment will pull the captions down. And there you go. I’m imagine you had that written out in your book. But that was a chapter of the book right there. That was awesome. That’s super, super practical. I love that. It’s funny, you were talking about the Navigating thing, it kind of reminds me of the idea of motivation. It’s huge in the entrepreneurial space. Now people just want to motivate it, but I think it was Jim Rome. And some other people I’ve heard say basically like, well, motivation is a key part. But you have to know you have to have the knowledge and you have to have the purpose. Otherwise, you know, if you got an idiot and you motivate them, you got a motivated idiot running around, you know, so like, it’s the same idea, even just with this kind of stuff, you need to kind of start with the foundational approach, and then, you know, really, really move forward.

Josh 1:18:04
So wow, that was awesome. Renee, well, I want to be respectful of your time, I know you got plenty of things to do. So I would love to Well, first of all, just say thank you so much for your time, and for dishing out some really, really good information and sharing your experience and being vulnerable and transparent to with what you’ve learned. So I knew you had an interesting story, I didn’t realize that you were on stage and froze your pageant. And that’s what kind of was the, the catalyst for for launching this. So I appreciate you sharing that and giving us some really good tactics and practical things that my audience I know is gonna love. I can’t wait to check out your book. I’m definitely going to register for that. So I’ll make sure I link it in the show notes for this episode. But everybody, definitely check out Rene’s site and then I think they can just like get on the waitlist or something right? Or get on your email list.

Josh 1:18:55
Okay, cool. Yeah, yeah, def, I’m gonna join that after this. I can’t wait to to read everything and a little more detail and put it to use and I’m sure a lot of other people are going to be excited for that as well. Just to say goodbye to everyone, for for somebody who was Josh, five years ago, who is like, you know what, I want to get better on camera. I want to get better at speaking. I don’t I’m sick of being nervous in front of groups. And I’m terrified to present. I think a lot of people are afraid to start their business because of this. Because there they may particularly in web development. All web designers, there’s the majority of web designers and developers are not super, I mean, some of them are really good at communication. But there’s a reason people like to do code which is sometimes to not have to deal with people. So if somebody is like that and they want to take the next step. Do you have like a parting thought that you would encourage them with?

Renee 1:19:47
I think it goes back to knowing that you’re here for a reason that you have a purpose that it takes all different types of people and the your identity of who you are, is created for a reason and a purpose. And, therefore own it. Don’t try to be somebody else. Don’t try to have different expectations for yourself. Instead, really own it. And then do your best of being who you are based off of who you are. Because there is no one like you. And coding is awesome. It’s something I cannot do. i It is not the way that I am wired. And we need people from all different aspects, we can all learn a skill, that’s one thing, but when you have a gift, and when you can really do something, there’s a reason that that was imparted to you. So do it to the best of your ability, and use it for good.

Josh 1:20:39
That’s awesome. Great way to cap off this conversation, Rene. Thanks so much for your time. And for a really, really great, actionable list of things that I can apply in my audience can apply. I know this is going to be super helpful. So thanks so much. I’m sure we’ll do this again, because this was a blast.

Renee 1:20:54
My pleasure. Thank you so much, Josh.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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