In this episode, my guest Augustine “Mak” who is an online entrepreneur, professional YouTuber and Elegant Themes content creator, shares with us the importance of owning your content. He recently tested out using SkillShare for some of his online courses and upon checking out his revenue and stats for the last few months, he noticed all his numbers dropped down to zero. Turns out, SkillShare closed all his courses without any notification, reason or refund.

This is a great lesson as to why you don’t want to trust your content with platforms like that technically own your content and can shut down or close your account down for no reason. Same is true for web designers when it comes to Wix, SquareSpace and other do it yourself builders which is why in this episode, Mak and I explain why using WordPress is the way to go.

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Episode #030 Full Transcription

Josh 0:18
Hey, friends, welcome to episode 30. I’ve got a very special guest for you. And this one, if you’ve been using Divi for any amount of time, it’s likely that this guy needs no introduction, Augustine Mac or just Mac as most people call him. He is one of the prominent YouTubers and tutorial video guys for Elegant Themes. So if you’ve seen any Divi trainings, or any of the official Elegant Themes, videos, you’ve likely seen him. And then he’s also a professional YouTuber, and course creator as well. So he has a whole site endeavor called funnels to income, where he helps people build their web design businesses online. And he covers a variety topic of topics from Divi, to web design, and all kinds of other stuff.

Josh 1:01
But as a fellow course creator, he ran into a problem recently, and it’s the reason I wanted to have him on, because he had a handful of his courses on a platform called Skillshare. And you’ll find out to this talk that he recently logged in to his account to check his stats and to check his income. And he realized that for the past three months, he made zero nothing. And the reason being is because Skillshare straight up closed his courses without any sort of notification or anything, they just straight turned his courses off. And this leads us to the topic of this episode, which is why it’s so important that you own your content. And the way you can do that is by using WordPress. So your we’re going to talk about this in detail. But in short, the reason you want to use WordPress is because Wix, Squarespace, and course creation platforms like Skillshare, and Udemy. And all these they own your content. So it could be turned off at any point, it’s a very vulnerable position to put yourself in.

Josh 2:00
So that’s what this episode is all about. You’ll hear about Mac’s experience with this. And then each one of us go into why this is so important for you. Because it’s not just about being a course creator. This happens with websites too. Again, when it comes to Wix and Squarespace and some of these Do It Yourself builders. They own your content. So what happens if they go down or what happens if they decide to close your account? You’re screwed. You don’t want to do that you want to use WordPress and you’re going to find out why. In this episode. Before we dive in. This one is brought to you by my Divi WordPress beginners course.

Josh 2:32
So if you’re listening to this, maybe you’re coming from Wix or from Squarespace happens all the time. I’ve got so many new students coming in from those platforms, and I love helping you guys out. And that course will help you out from start to finish it will guide you on the most important areas of WordPress, and Divi so you can learn quick, and then you can get going with building websites that you own fully. So enjoy this episode. Mack was awesome. He’s just a true professional. I almost didn’t like having him on because his video and audio quality was so good. It totally made me look like an amateur but awesome having Mac on you guys are gonna love this conversation, absolute gold through and through. So here is my great chat with none other than Augustine Mac. Mac, welcome to the show, man. It is awesome to have you on.

Mac 3:22
Oh, thanks for having me. Thanks for having me.

Josh 3:25
So I’ve been looking forward to we were just talking before we went live. I feel like I know you because I’m an Elegant Themes blog contributor, and you’re a blog and video contributor. So I feel like we should have done this at some point. I’ve been watching you for years now. So it’s awesome to connect with you one on one and have you on the show, man? Oh, absolutely.

Mac 3:44
I mean, I feel like I know you as well, because of your contributions to the Elegant Themes. Blog. So yeah, I mean, we should have done this a long time. So I blame you for that.

Josh 3:54
I will take full responsibility. Yep, yep. Yeah, man. But uh, you know, I wanted to have you on for a variety of reasons. I’m sure we’ll have some future episodes to talk about video and gear and stuff like that. But you just released a video recently with a very important lesson learned. And I’m sure we’ll talk about this. But in short, all of your courses on Skillshare just disappeared, they were closed. So I’m really interested to hear about that. And the topic we’re going to get into is the importance of owning your own content and hosting your own stuff. So really excited to see what you’ve learned and what you would recommend people do about that. Before we get into that though, for the folks who are maybe new to Divi and new in my audience and who may not know you yet. I imagine most of them do because they’ve watched a lot of tutorials on Elegant Themes and stuff but for the for the three people who don’t know yet Mack, why don’t you tell us who you are, where you are and what you do.

Mac 4:46
Yeah, sure. My full name is Augustine Mukachevo. So I know it’s quite difficult to pronounce my last name so I just use Mac.

Josh 4:54
Just that’s an axiom. It’s much appreciated for us simple Ohio boys. Yeah, so

Mac 5:01
I’m an online entrepreneur and also, I’m a content creator with Elegant Themes. So I have my own blog where I create a lot of video tutorials mainly around Divi and how to use Divi. But I also branched into content, creating and creating an online business. And the website is called funnels to income and elegant themes blog is just the Elegant Themes channel on YouTube. So that’s mainly what I do.

Josh 5:28
Yep, Aussie, I’ll make sure we link all that in the show notes and then a year are you in London like the heart of London? Or where are you based in the UK?

Mac 5:36
No, no, I mean, Birmingham. That’s just Yeah. second largest city. Yeah, it’s not as densely populated as London. So it’s, it’s pretty quiet over here.

Josh 5:46
Oh, awesome. I was thinking you were in London for some reason. Okay. Very cool. Now, you’re in an office for those watching on video. Your video stuff always looks great. Like we were just talking about your camera before we went live? Do you commute? Like, do you have a little co working office? Or what does that look like for you? Before we dive in?

Mac 6:05
Oh, yes, I’m actually live about 45 minutes away. So I drive all the way to the studio because I’ve tried working from home a few years ago. And that didn’t work very well, because the kids will be making noise because my my kids are home schooled. So most of the time, they’ll be at home. So trying to record and trying to do work. I mean, it’s just didn’t work. So I decided, You know what, let me just find my little studio and do all my work in there. And it’s worked pretty well, for me to be honest.

Josh 6:32
And you have a handful of kids, right? If I recall, I think I heard your denomination talk.

Mac 6:37
Yeah, yeah I’ve got five kids. Oh, wow.

Josh 6:40
What are the ages? My oldest now

Mac 6:43
is I’m not very good with the ages. And so I’m sure I’m into trouble now. But my oldest is 17. And the youngest is about nine or 10. Okay, I think Yeah. So it’s for boys and one girl.

Josh 6:55
So yeah, I could see the past handful of years being very difficult working from home for sure, then.

Mac 7:00
Yeah, no, it’s very, very difficult. Yeah.

Josh 7:03
Awesome. Yeah. I was curious, because your studio has always looked very legit. So I think I had heard that before that you were in a studio. When you worked at home? I’m actually I’m just curious. Did you have your own home office? And was that still really difficult? Or what did that look like?

Mac 7:16
Um, we had a four bedroom house. So I used one of the one of the bedrooms as a studio. But to be honest, it didn’t work very well, because I tried to use the shed as well as as a studio. And that wasn’t very good either, so..

Josh 7:34
Yeah, gotcha. I know. We’re trying. I’m in my home office right now. And I’m gonna milk it here as long as I can. But I’m sure eventually I’ll be doing something similar. Yeah, yep. Well, let’s get right into it, man. So you have you have your courses in a variety of places it looks like but most importantly, you you sounds like you kind of experimented with putting it on Skillshare. And why don’t you tell us what happened? I’ll link to that video. But I would like to know just kind of what happened here recently.

Mac 8:02
Yeah, it’s crazy. In fact, you know, with my courses, I think I was one of the first guys to create a course on on on Divi. And this is going back way back. I think it was Divi 2.4. So this was on Udemy. So my courses were fine, there, everything was okay. And then they introduced this thing where they just changed the price on you, and you can’t do anything about it. So that was really annoying, because I put so much effort in trying to promote that course. And then when they cut the price to about $10, slide coming, what profit you make from that, and you still have to pay them a percentage as well from from all of that.

Mac 8:42
So that was really annoying. So I said to myself, You know what, let me try and host my courses myself. So I started hosting all my courses by myself on my on my own website. So what happened is, I had so many plugins going on. So it was just all a mess. And I got frustrated. And I thought to myself, You know what, let me just choose a year, let me just choose one of these companies that host your courses for you. So I started off with Skillshare. So I put all my courses there, everything was okay. And I think it was two weeks ago, I logged into my account, and all the courses were canceled. It was I couldn’t believe it. It was very frustrating. I mean, it’s I mean, I wasn’t making a lot of money from it.

Mac 9:26
But you can imagine, I mean, that covers like part of my rent here, it covers my hosting. So that in itself was very frightening. So I thought to myself, You know what, let me do a tutorial about this. And, and let people know that it’s very, very important that you keep your own content on your own domains or your own platforms, because by doing that, then you own everything. You just have to worry about the marketing. And before the Skillshare thing happened as well. I had moved my courses to teachable and I went over there There were a lot of limited limitations. But I mean, we can speak about the teachable situation as well, because that was another. That was another thing that I experienced as well. Yeah.

Josh 10:09
Oh, I’d love to hear about that. Yeah, cuz I have my courses through WordPress and LearnDash, which I’m sure we’ll talk about, because you still have Did you move from LearnDash to teachable? or Yes, yes. Okay. Okay. So yeah, let’s hang on to that, because I’d love to talk about that. I’m curious because one of my one of my new mentors, Pat Flynn, I took his podcasting course and it was through teachable, but I could tell as a designer, it looked very limited. And while yes, learn to ask can be tricky. I love being able to customize anything I want, which is awesome. But yeah, like getting back to this the Skill Share your courses there.

Josh 10:43
What was interesting in the video you put out, which I’ll link below is you show your numbers it went from I think, what was like 2500 or something like that to nothing. And that’s a big thing. It’s not like one course was closed, they shut down all your stuff, dude, that is insane. For no reason. Like, you didn’t break any guidelines or anything. It’s just and, and from my understanding Skillshare and a lot of these other self hosted platforms, not even for just courses, but Wix and some of this other stuff. They are very hard to get ahold of. Oh, absolutely. Looking for customer support as a show for lack of a better term.

Mac 11:18
Yeah, to be honest. I mean, you saw the courses that I that I that I showed them the on the video, it was WordPress Divi. So I was scratching my head thinking, What could I have done to get banned? And till today? I don’t even have an answer.

Josh 11:36
So they never told you like, you know, this is why or there was no notification that your courses were going down. No,

Mac 11:43
I saw something. This was going back. About a month ago, two months ago, we said you had a constant strike. But I tried to get in touch with them to ask them like, what’s the strike for? And no one got back to me. So I thought, You know what, I’ll just ignore it, you know, you know, it’s nothing. And then when I logged back in now, when I did that video, that’s when I realized that all my courses were pretty much offline. I couldn’t do anything to them. I can’t repost them. And I’ve lost pretty much everything on that.

Josh 12:12
Wow, what now? What is a content strike? Is that something that Skillshare went through? Or? Okay.

Mac 12:19
Yes. Skillshare has their own sort of like rules, because after I saw my courses, banned, pretty much. I went to YouTube to see if anyone had same experience as me. And there’s quite a few people have bad had a similar experience. And what they mentioned, one guy actually mentioned that one of the reasons is if you talk about making money online, you could get a constant strike. Yes, but there could be other reasons. So in my case, this was just WordPress. And this was just.

Josh 12:52
Yeah, cuz you didn’t have like a make money online course or any I mean, your brand is funnels to income, but even that that’s not like, you know, that’s not a shady sounding, make money quick online kind of thing?

Mac 13:04
No, not at all. Not at all. So the videos that got banned, actually, were me teaching people how to use WordPress, and the other one was Photoshop. And I think it was Divi, yeah, and other Divi course as well on there, and how to create landing pages. So pretty much that was it. So everything is gone, so.

Josh 13:23
Now how long? How long had you had your courses there, because from my understanding, it sounded like you just kind of experimented with that right? Just to see if it would be a good additional revenue for you like additional source of income.

Mac 13:35
My Skillshare accounts was on for about I think about two years. And the courses were there for about a year. So I just add that I just put my courses on there. I just left them there for you know, just to see what could happen, so.

Josh 13:49
And unfortunately, I mean, you checked it out, it looked like they were gone for a few months, right or three months, because you hadn’t logged in, you know, which that’s I do that kind of thing all the time. Sometimes I don’t log into my stuff, you know, depending on what it is for a while later, I’m like, Oh crap, you know, but that I mean, you said it in the video. And this is a big point, this is something I want to make sure we hit on right away. If you have your entire income relied on a platform that you don’t own, you put yourself in a very, very vulnerable position, like if Skillshare was your main income, that it went down to zero.

Mac 14:22
Absolutely. And this is, you know, a hard lesson and I’ve actually gone through the whole process. So it’s good to let people know your audience as well that I mean, this can be done using you know your own plugins like LearnDash or lifter LMS to set up everything on your own website, because pretty much what these guys are doing Skillshare and Udemy biggest hosting of videos for you. And you can do that absolutely by yourself. And the key here, like you’ve mentioned as well is, if that’s your own, that’s your only source of income. You’re done. You know, way away is your your normal day to day stuff that you pay for, where’s the money gonna come from, if that was your only source of income and trying to build it, it takes a very long time to get to the point where it starts making money. So it’s not something that you can replicate right away. So this is why you need to get it right, right from the get go and get it all hosted on your own services on your own website.

Josh 15:21
Good point. Yeah. And then for folks who might be new to web design, or new to WordPress, just as kind of an FYI, WordPress is what’s called open source, which means you own it. When you do your own WordPress site, you own everything on there. Now, it is on WordPress. But the way WordPress works is you have a database that has all of your content, all of your pages, all your post types. And the cool thing about that is like I have automatic backups set up through manage WP, so God forbid, my site goes down or something, I have the entire site, I have everything. And I’m never going to be locked out of it. I’m never going to be closed from the content, like I could move my entire site to a whole different host, you know, something else, and I can have all the content. Whereas if you rely on Skillshare, or Udemy, or one of these, like you experience Mac, your content? I mean, did you still have access to the courses? Or was it like blocked? Or did it just um, it wasn’t live?

Mac 16:13
I still have access to the website to my account, but I can’t do anything to the courses.

Josh 16:21
Absent Wow. I mean, that’s just brutal, man. And yeah, to your point. And, you know, kind of a part two to this is learn Das, which is what I use. And there’s lifter LMS and a couple other good course platforms for for WordPress. Yes, I build the course content through there. I do all the lessons and the videos and everything. But it’s the same thing. Like when I backup my website, it backs up all of my LearnDash posts as well. So LearnDash is not going to shut off my account. Like it doesn’t work like that. It’s not like Udemy and some of these other ones where they are literally hosting everything. And this is why it’s so important to use WordPress, use some of these other tools where you own it. This is one of the benefits.

Josh 17:03
This is actually something I tell my clients just as you know, something for my audience. A lot of my clients have said in the past like Well, should I use Wix or Squarespace and I tell them the same thing. I’m like, listen, those platforms, you don’t own the anything like they could for one, they could shut down, you could lose everything. They could close your account at any time you are relying on something that is not yours. Like you’re basically you know, you’re putting yourself in a very vulnerable spot. So yeah, WordPress, you know, may not everyone listening is a course creator. But the same principle applies to just your web design business.

Mac 17:39
Oh, absolutely. I just wanted to add to these platforms like Wix and Squarespace. Now let’s say you had a business running on Squarespace or Wix. And it gets very popular and you decide to you know what, I’m going to move my site over and get it hosted somewhere else. Basically, you can’t take their platform with you, because that that’s their intellectual property. So you live with nothing, pretty much because they own the platform in the service that helps you build a website, whereas with WordPress, you design it however you want.

Mac 18:14
And you can take that anywhere you want. You can host with Flywheel, you can host with WP Engine, Hostgator, whatever it is, you can just move your site wherever you want. Whereas these other platforms, once you put your content on there, I mean, all your SEO, everything, it just goes to their services. So you’re not building your own your own platform, I mean to say so that’s where the disadvantages are. And I think we need to make a lot of these videos to just let people know why it’s important to host your own websites with WordPress.

Josh 18:49
That’s a great point, man. Yeah, I actually have on on my video list. Why you should choose WordPress over Wix and Squarespace and some of these other ones. And it’s exactly what you’re talking about. Because I have had my business website. This is my third host, I first I had them on Bluehost and Bluehost. Back in 2009 was awesome. They were like they were great. And then they got sold a while back end and then went downhill. And they’re still downhill all my clients. I tried to get off GoDaddy and Bluehost. And then I moved it to a different company called Arvixe, which was kind of like a kind of, I don’t know, you’ve heard of them before. It was a lower tier hosting company. And they were awesome for a year but then guess what happened? They got sold to and then they went downhill so port used to be amazing, then it was non existent.

Josh 19:35
But I found SiteGround once they became popular and they’ve been amazing for me ever since. And so I moved all my site and everything over there. Now what you just said is exactly the most important point. I was able to move my website from host to host it didn’t affect my SEO all my pages were there all my content was there because I used WordPress which is open source and we own it. Yeah, if you have a square based website and they go downhill or you’re upset with their service or you feel like they’re nickel and diming, you for every little add on and you want to go to Wix. Good luck, you’re gonna have to literally copy and paste all of your content and download all your images and recreate an entire site with a whole different platform. So, yeah, I think people are finding that it’s just so interesting, because their marketing is such a ploy. It’s like, you know, build your own website in 10 minutes, and do it for 10 bucks or whatever. And then people realize pretty quickly how costly it actually is.

Mac 20:31
And oh, absolutely, absolutely.

Josh 20:34
Yeah, so man, huge, such such important point. So, with Skillshare, were you able to like, where’s it at right now? Have you? I mean, I imagine Have you sent in some sort of complaint? Like, have they got back with you? Are they gonna refund you anything? Or what does that look like?

Mac 20:51
Um, to be honest, I sort of gave up on it, because I’ve sent a few emails haven’t got anything back from from them. So these I mean, those courses, there’s, I don’t think they’re, they’re going to enable them and run them as normal, maybe after hit after listening to this podcast they could.

Josh 21:12
Get by shows that popular yet. But I think you have a better chance of them seeing your video online. But yeah, and what’s interesting is, in the beginning, you talked about you to me about selling your course for like 10 bucks. And when I started doing courses, I still get this all the time. I can’t tell you how many people said, Are you going to do your courses on Udemy? So you know, they’re not as expensive? And I’m like, No, for a number of reasons. The biggest reason is what we’re talking about. I know, like I, I’ve been in the business long enough to know that I’m not going to trust them to host all my content, my courses, because of this type of situation. What if they just close it down? For some reason? Or what have they decided? What if they went through hardships and closed a bunch of their courses down?

Josh 21:55
Number two, is what you talked about, they tend to drop their courses down to 10 bucks, and I am not going to put you know, my information in my courses, like 95% of my content is free with all my tutorials and my videos and stuff. But my course content is at a whole nother level. And I am not going to devalue that and let somebody you know, bring it down to 10 bucks when it’s worth hundreds. Well, it’s actually I think it’s worth 1000s. But I keep my pricing down to help web designers like that’s the other reason is I don’t trust that and it sounds like you experienced that as well, even with Udemy

Mac 22:27
Oh, absolutely. I mean, with Udemy, you can imagine creating these courses, you know, it may seem like it’s very straightforward, you just go on camera, and you just record. But there’s a lot of planning that goes behind the scenes. I mean, on average, it can take you three to four months just to create one course a detailed course. And as you mentioned, imagine all that work that’s going in there just to say for 10 bucks. I mean, it’s it’s not worth it. And you don’t have a say in that. And this is something that affected a lot of course creators, because at first you could name your price, and everything was okay. And this was changed overnight. And so you can imagine, what can you do as a course creator? You just now you’re I mean, all your profits have really gone down, just like that, and you can’t do anything about it. So yeah, it is tough to use these to use these platforms where you don’t own your own content.

Josh 23:18
Yeah, now, so with WordPress and LearnDash. We’re both familiar with that. And it’s still what I use, I’ve really enjoyed it. As you mentioned, in the video that you put out a couple weeks ago, it is a little trickier to build courses through that depending on what theme you use, there’s more work involved. But as long as you get it set up, or you have somebody build it, it’s I mean, it’s worth the investment to have somebody build it correctly. You’re good like your, your setup, and you can have full control. So I’m curious, let’s talk about the whole teachable thing. What made you to decide you wanted to try that out instead of LearnDash? Or what did that look like?

Mac 23:51
Um, what I normally do, in fact, the reason why I set up funnels to income is to, because I’ve been listening to a lot of gurus online. And to be honest, I’ve been very frustrated, because sometimes they make it seem so simple, like oh, just do this and just put this there and you’re gonna make money, and haven’t been very successful, to be honest. So I said, You know what, I’m going to stop listening to what all these guys are suggesting. Because even right now, if you go online, and try to look for information on how to sell courses, there’s a ton of ways you can set up your system. So as I said to myself, You know what, I am going to try out all these different ways of doing things and experience everything myself, and then I’ll be in a better position to actually talk about it. So that’s the plan with my website funnels to income. So I saw even like now I can speak about about Skillshare because I’ve gone through it because it’s very frustrating. There’s so much information out there.

Mac 24:53
So with Skillshare I mean, to be honest, when I first started I was like yeah, this seems like a very nice platform. I can use this too. to earn my income, but it wasn’t a matter of me choosing that over LearnDash. Because LearnDash has always been really, really good for me. But the only issue that I had was my marketing was very weak. And even right now, it’s something that I’m trying to improve on to get, you know, to market my courses, and get a lot of people coming to my website. So I thought to myself, You know what, let me use all these established platforms. Maybe that could make me a lot more money. But even then, I going through that process, I still noticed that I still have to promote my courses on Skillshare. Myself.

Josh 25:41
Yeah. Oh, sure. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that was, yeah, that’s a great point. Yeah, cuz I look, I was tempted. But the same thing, I was very tempted. I was like, well, like, you know, I’m selling my courses, generally anywhere between 50 and one of my business courses, 500. So the average course I do is about 250 to 300. That’s like an average cost course. So I have a huge a big profit margin. Now, it’s time, like you said, it’s very time intensive to create a course that’s actually good. But the profit margin is there. Whereas Yeah, you have to market it yourself. That’s the downfall.

Josh 26:13
But I had thought about that I was very tempted with you. To me, I was like, Well, if I did, if I put one of my courses on there, even though I make less, it could be in front of hundreds of 1000s of people potentially. But I’m so glad I resisted the temptation, because I’m closing in on 500 students, which isn’t a lot in the long run. But now this has become basically my full time courses are my full time thing, which is amazing in less than two years. So I would much prefer less students and have quality students than the people who are searching for something free or for five bucks. And again, it goes back to the ownership thing, like I own every piece of content that I have on my WordPress site through learn das with courses.

Josh 26:56
So yeah, there’s a big temptation for that. But what I like that you’re doing Mac is it seems like you’re kind of putting yourself in the guinea pig role where you’re giving all these things that go, which is very valuable, like we’re able to have this talk because you experienced this. And luckily, you have other income streams, and it’s not, you know, killed you. I imagine if that was your only income stream, we wouldn’t be doing this talk right now. Cuz you’d be scaling. I mean, you’re doing I know you’re making you’re probably doing pretty well with YouTube money. You’re working for Elegant Themes with their stuff. And so you’ve got all these different streams. And

Mac 27:29
yeah, that’s Well, yeah. Affiliate affiliate marketing market. Yep. Yeah. So that’s, that’s doing well, as well. Now, there’s something I almost want to mention. With the with Skillshare and Udemy. Now, you mentioned a very good point where you said you’d rather have less students and provide no quality support. Now, when you put your course and this is what a lot of people don’t realize, when you put your course on Udemy, it may get a ton of signups. Right. But the problem is, you’re going to do a lot of support. And you know how frustrating it is, you’re going to be doing support for only 10 bucks. And people want the full support. You know what I mean? Like? Think about that? Yes? Yes. That’s the challenge you’re gonna have. So you’re gone.

Josh 28:18
Oh, sorry. I didn’t mean to cut you off. What about like, you know, when somebody comes a student on Udemy, do you have access to put their email into your own CRM? Or that’s the other component? Like, what can you do with that customer’s information or does Udemy own that?

Mac 28:33
That’s the problem. Now, that’s another problem as well. Now, when someone signs up for your course, on Udemy, or even on Skillshare, you don’t have the details. You don’t have the emails, you just have a chat system on their platform, where if they ask questions, you have to respond to them. And pretty much that’s all you have. So you don’t have a way to communicate with those students outside these platforms. And you know, in marketing, having your own mailing list is very, very, very important. In fact, I talk about it email.

Josh 29:04
It’s the most important thing, email like so it’s funny because email has become, it’s kind of circled back around to where people are realizing like, holy crap, email, having an email list is the most important thing. Like that’s my highest converter, I send that campaign out for my courses. Email is 75% of my income, oh, Facebook ads and anything else?

Mac 29:27
No doubt. So that’s another massive disadvantages of using these, these self hosting platforms.

Josh 29:33
So you could get 200 value or you could get 2000 students in your course. But your email list is still at zero for that course. Like that is wow, I really didn’t even think about that. That’s that’s another reason Udemy and these other ones wow, like, yeah, like my mail, I use MailChimp. And every time somebody buys a course, they get automatically uploaded into MailChimp and I can tag them I can either tag them or I can send out segment emails. So and that’s big for updates. Some courses to like I’m about ready to update a bunch of my courses here after my next as my SEO course comes out, and I can just send segment emails out so I can just tell MailChimp, anyone who purchased my Divi beginners course, email them this. So yeah, that’s a huge aspect,

Mac 30:18
I could tell you something else that I do with my mailing list as well is because I have a membership website on funnels to income as well. So anyone that has bought my Divi course, they also have access to my live training. So I do like Q and A’s on Saturdays, or even sometimes during the week. So I can send an email out to the existing students and say, hey, you know, you fancy a q&a, if you have any issues, you know, join the during the last session, and that has worked really well. Now, with these platforms, you can’t even do that. So basically, you just have your course there. And you just have to pray. They don’t change their terms or something goes wrong. Wow.

Josh 30:58
Gosh, it’s so yeah, it’s it’s crazy, man. Yeah, that’s huge. As a massive, massive part about this, you got to build that email list. And what I found too, is a lot like a high percentage of my students are recurring. So they like one course they come back. And now I have a bundle option. A lot of my students are now doing my bundle option. And I always give them a discount, and they’ve already bought a course or two. So that’s been huge. And if I were to host my courses on Udemy, that would be non existent. Like I wouldn’t have that option. The lifetime value of a customer is $10 on Udemy. And it’s potentially 1000s. For me, you know, when you host your own stuff. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, man. So yeah, the teachable thing. Can you just talk about that real quick? What did that look like? Like? Did you start to go from LearnDash to teachable and we have, what’s your experience? I see a smirk. And so what’s the experience, the experience been so far.

Mac 31:53
Now, that was a crazy one as well. So what happened is, I, I created a course on on LearnDash. And so on my own website. So what happened is I was trying to get funnels working, and I was trying to get WP fusion to tag everyone that’s buying. So there are a lot of plugins that we’re working together. So I didn’t set it up correctly, to be honest. And that was the fault of mine. So one day, I just woke up and people were complaining, someone had just bought a course and they don’t have access. So I had to go in manually and try and fix things. I was getting frustrated. And to be honest, I was getting tired. You know, I was really getting tired of this. So I said, You know what, that’s a dangerous position to be in.

Mac 32:33
So I said, you know, what I’m done with, with the WordPress LearnDash. And all of that, I want to go to teachable, because to be fair, they do a very good job marketing, teachable, so I went over to teachable, moved everything moved everything over there, you know, did my domain pointing and everything. And after about two days, I realized like, wow, the design of the landing page is so limited. I couldn’t even do much on it, you know, and the the builder. I mean, being used to use them Divi myself. It was so it was useless. Let me put it that way. I mean, I couldn’t even do anything on it. And to make matters worse, if I wanted to upsell my course I couldn’t. Oh, yeah. Cuz you were using cart flows. Right? For Exactly, exactly. And the landing page, the sales page was so basic. I mean, it was so frustrating. And to be honest, within a day, I had to do another video to say, Hey, guys, I’m sorry. I’m back.

Josh 33:33
Back to learn that. That’s funny. Yeah, man. I mean, it’s Oh, isn’t that funny? Like, you know, inevitably, you just go back to what you can control at any point.

Mac 33:44
And to be honest, I sent an email out to all my students. So I said, Look, I’m really having problems with the system. And I want to better support everyone here. So I’m going to try LearnDash and they were like, okay, Mack, go over there. Let’s see what happens. And when I came back, I was so like nervous because I thought like was some of them had already subscribed on to teachable. Do you see what I mean? So I thought, like, wow, I’m just bouncing them between two platforms.

Mac 34:11
So I did a video. And I just said, I mean to all the students like guys, look, I really want to provide a good service for you. But I’m trying to find a way to really make things work. So it looks like I really have to sit down. So I need some time. I need about three, four days, where I shut down the website, build everything and make sure everything is working. Okay. And to be honest, I got a lot of support from that. And everyone was saying, Look, Mike, we don’t want you frustrated because we loved your content. So go ahead, shut it down for four days, fix everything up. Once everything is running, then you know, open it up again. And right now. I’m glad to say yeah, I’m back on the WordPress WordPress platform and I’m hosting my own melon courses.

Josh 34:52
Awesome. What great lessons learned and you know, that’s the kind of vowed like that’s the trust that you gain with students when you host it yourself. And I’m sure you don’t have that with the skill set of students because they paid for a course and they can’t access it and you can’t do anything about it. Absolutely. You know, like, at least at least you have full control to be able to engage with your audience and let them know. Yeah, that’s valuable. So valuable. I know, I just like with anything custom that comes with its ups and downs, and LearnDash has been great. For me, the one issue that I had ongoing was, I had so many people asking about payment options, because some of my courses are 345 100 bucks.

Josh 35:31
And I decided to do that. So I use WooCommerce, I have all my courses linked with WooCommerce. And there is no way to do a subscription without using whoo subscriptions. So I didn’t we implemented that. And there was a lot of I had one of my subcontractors shout out new Well, we had a, we had quite a bit of integration to do. And it worked pretty well. But I kept on having the issue you just talked about which was students would like randomly be kicked out of the course they were subscribed in because they use a subscription. And then it was very confusing because it said subscription in the invoice. And I had to keep on telling people you know, it’s, it says subscription, but you get lifetime access and stuff like that.

Josh 36:10
And it got to the point where recently I was like, You know what I’m done with subscriptions, I turned it off, I made sure all students that had subscriptions were made sure they had full access lifetime access to the courses. And I figured, you know, it’d be nice to do payment plans. But right now, it’s just not worth it. And it’s funny, all the people that asked about payment plans, like a lot of them, either didn’t go for it, or there were a handful, like, I think I’ve had 12 or 13 people do a payment plan, and then their credit card was expired after the first payment. And then I never got that second payment. So I had to boot him out of the course because I never got paid in full. So that seemed to be an issue to a lot of the people that were wanting things and Payment plans are cheaper, became the most difficult kind of people who are just like clients, like sometimes the people who want it for cheap are the worst people to work with. Oh, absolutely.

Mac 36:59
And I mean, to be honest, I mean, what you’ve done for the community, I mean, the way you’ve done your free tutorials, and all of that, people that are serious. And I mean to want to learn how to design websites, I’m pretty sure they will, you know, put that money to the side and just pay for it. Because they know you mean, you’re doing a lot to promote yourself, even with this podcast. So people know who you are. And there is no like question of, Am I going to get a good course or whatever it is because they’ve seen your, your tutorial and everything. So just like myself, I’ve just cut out the subscriptions because I was I had a headache with that as well. So it’s just no one price. And that’s it, you know? Yeah. And it? Yeah,

Josh 37:40
it’s a great way to go. It really is. Yeah. And it’s not that, like, if I had a $2,000 course, because some of these mastery courses are 1000s of dollars. That’s a lot. Like that’s a lot for me. And, you know, we’re we’re, you know, on the upswing here with our businesses, like that’s still a lot. But yeah, it’s like, my most expensive course is 500 bucks, which, you know, if you can’t invest 500 bucks to build a six figure web design business, there’s a problem there. You’re not ready, you’re not ready to have a six figure business?

Mac 38:09
No, absolutely. I mean, some of these courses, even the plugins, I mean, I get this all the time, oh, cart flows is so expensive. It’s $300. I mean, it’s $300 a year. I mean, if you’re interested, any other business out there, surely you be spending way more than that. So I believe that people that are serious about wanting to learn and start their own business, going through your courses is you know, super valuable, because you you do the stuff for a living, and you just teaching them what you’ve learned over the years. So that’s an investment. And that’s why, in my opinion, you know, the prices are reasonable, because from what you get from that from from that course, you can do a lot more down the line. So it is an investment, and it’s to be taken, you know, just like any other business.

Josh 38:56
Yeah, and it’s really all about quality over quantity, I would much rather have 500 Awesome students than 5000 that are, you know, gonna complain about spending $10 For all my my value and my content and then have nonstop support, like you said, yes, yes, yes. Now your your membership, what are you using for the membership portion of what you do?

Mac 39:18
Right, so for the membership, I use a plugin called WP fusion. So it’s a tag based system. So when they sign up for the membership, it’s through WooCommerce as well. They get tagged in ConvertKit. And that gives them access to whatever course it is that I mean, whatever subscription that they sign up to. Yeah, so currently, I just have like one subscription. So that says, No, it’s okay. It’s not, it’s not too bad. But I think the courses in a way much better because of the subscription. I’m giving access to everything and it’s quite confusing for everyone as well. And it doesn’t make sense because if you actually add together like all the courses I have on my site. I mean, it gets to about, let’s say, maybe a grand right for the courses. And my membership is only $19. And you access everything. So there’s a conflict there. Like, why would I pay $500 for a course. And I’ll just pay $19 Get all the acts that I need. And I’m done. You know, right? So I’m reconsidering the membership.

Josh 40:28
Yeah. And you know, it’s funny, I’m right in the middle, like, I’m in the beginning stages of planning out my membership. And my biggest question was the same thing. I’ve gone back and forth, like, should I have just done like a membership, where it’s 39 bucks a month or something and just keep on dumping my courses in there. But that point is, is absolutely correct. It’s like, the problem with doing a full course. And a membership is a course is really a standalone thing. Like, like my courses, my business course. For example, point a point B here is how to start, build, grow and launch your web design business like that, that content in a membership would be really hard, because each lesson and I’m sure you experienced this as a course creator, when you create a course, it’s kind of like, you’re building a staircase, like, there’s one step here that gets you started, then there’s the next step, then there’s the next one. And there’s like a clear end, you know, there’s like light at the end of the tunnel, that kind of thing.

Josh 41:22
Yeah, and with a membership membership is more ongoing. And what I’m looking at doing, what I’m in the beginning stages of is my membership is going to be more community forum and coaching based, and then I will do live trainings as well. And what I’m looking at doing is the membership is going to have more things for like email marketing, Facebook, ads, advertising, marketing, stuff like that, that’s outside of the realm of my courses. Now, I could do a course on email marketing, but I feel like email marketing, for example, is probably something that could lend itself to like a little series in the membership, as opposed to a full course.

Josh 42:01
Because my courses are just like yours. They’re Divi specific, or, like my upcoming SEO courses, like a point A to point B, you know, guide for SEO. So yeah, I just say that to say I’m with you. Like, I’m glad that I’m going to keep my courses separate, because I’ve got I’ve had so many people say hey, would you open up all your courses for like a monthly charge. But the problem with that too, is I don’t want somebody to devalue it and spend 19 bucks and then grab all the content and then disappear and spend 20 bucks on something that’s worth 1000 You know,

Mac 42:32
and that’s what I’ve noticed as well on my on my membership. So someone would sign up for the course, go for my main web design formula, because that course as well teaches you pretty much the point A to point B of designing a professional looking website. So I cover things like color theory, photography, typography, so everything that’s involved in making a professional website, so you can imagine someone who just paid $19 Sign up for one month, go through everything. And it’s bye bye. So that’s that’s the that’s the problem. And I’ve noticed that people are cancelling cancelling the the membership but I’ve so this is something that I’m definitely going to change and restructure all these courses. They’re just gonna be like paid courses. And then I can just support everyone in there by doing like, live q&a s and then just keep it that way. Yeah.

Josh 43:26
That’s great. Yeah, you just reaffirmed what I was thinking about because literally, I was on a walk yesterday and I was thinking about all this and that usually my walks are my thinking time. And I’m like, you know, how do I want to structure this and I feel better than ever now about having the membership be its own forum, mastermind, good community with quality people. And then advanced trainings, they’re not courses, but they’re trainings for certain things. I’m thinking about bringing experts like yourself to talk about certain topics, whether it’s professional, like I could have you on and we could talk about professional video and audio gear and stuff like that, you know, so yeah, awesome, man. Yeah, I’m happy to do it.

Josh 44:04
I’m excited. I’m excited about that’s the plan. Probably summertime, I’m going to be launching that. So hopefully the whole Coronavirus stuff gets done, you know, at least back to normal thing in the next couple of months. So we can get to that. So yeah, sure, sure. Yeah, man. That’s great. Well, man, this has been awesome, man. What a great talk super, super valuable. I mean, it’s all about owning your own content. That’s and again, most people listening aren’t going to be a course creator. yet. I think a lot of people have the ability to be course graders but as as you found out as well, course creation is no joke. It is a lot of work. If it’s gonna be good. If it’s gonna be good. There’s a lot of work. There’s a lot of planning, there is the marketing and the I mean, really, that’s half of it. That’s maybe more than half of it is marketing the courses I’d be happy to share with you what I’ve learned too. Maybe we can do a separate talk on that.

Josh 44:52
Oh, yeah, cuz I’ve learned I’ve learned a lot over the past two years. But now that my courses are into the six figures, it’s like it’s Pretty cool, man, I’m excited. I’m kind of getting out of my web design business and full time into courses, and YouTube and stuff. So it’s pretty exciting times. But it really goes back to like this stuff of like, well, what platform should I use? And we’re in the same boat, like a lot of people getting started. You know, they’re like, what platform should I use? How should I structure this? We’re in the same boat, even as authorities, because there’s all these different options. And it’s very tempting to try different things out, and we want to be diverse. But at the end of the day, this talk has made me realize owning your car, owning your own content is priceless.

Mac 45:35
Oh, it’s priceless. Absolutely. And I’d also like to say something. I watched a few of your podcast episodes. And to be honest, I’m inspired. I’m really inspired. So I was actually thinking of setting up my own podcast, you know, and didn’t have you on there. Because there’s a lot that you know, because you see it with my, with my tutorials. Mainly, I’m just talking, I’m just saying, well click here, do this, do that, click here, do that do that. But I feel like people don’t really know who I am, you know. So having a podcast and listening to your podcast is very inspiring. And I was thinking, You know what, maybe I could have a podcast, where I can talk about even more of my experiences and things that I’m doing, or even experiments, like put myself forward to say, look, I’m going to spend $500, a year on marketing, and let’s see what he does. And then it’s like, I use myself as the example. So yeah, those are like my ideas to the podcast.

Josh 46:32
Dude, I couldn’t encourage you to do it enough. It’s awesome. I mean, it. It’s one of those things where it can be very time consuming. I really, you know, I spent a lot of time the first couple months getting it going and creating my graphics and my flow and my system. But now I’ve got it down to the point where, after this talk, I actually plan on editing this today, because I want this to release this coming. But we’re recording this on Thursday. Excuse me, I want this to go out on Monday. Because it’s such a timely talk, I should be able to get it done and edited today, and then wrap it up tomorrow, like it really only takes me a couple hours now with my templates in place to do the video and the audio.

Josh 47:07
So with your video skills you could do you could keep it just audio, it would take a lot less work to do it just audio. But video is powerful, too. You know what’s interesting is because a lot of people say don’t put your podcast on YouTube. And I agree with that. If you’re just doing audio, you don’t want to do an audio podcast on YouTube. But if you make it a video show, my YouTube numbers are almost just as much as my downloads on the podcast download. So like a lot of web designers, I’ve done that before when Divi nation was at its heyday, all the time, I would watch a video and just have it on the side while I’m building building a website. Yeah, and I love like looking at people, I love looking at what the guest looks like or you know, you just get a better feel for their mannerisms and stuff.

Josh 47:48
So, yeah, man, I couldn’t encourage you to do it enough. I think it would be awesome. And I’ll tell you one thing about podcasting, I encourage everyone, if you’ve got something to say you want to bring a community together, do a podcast because we talked about this before we went live, it just builds trust. And that is not found in any other medium. It’s not found in a blog post to your point, the tutorial, the tutorials I found are a great entry point. Like they may find Oh, there’s you know, here’s a tutorial on making a LearnDash site. Okay, this guy Mac always seems pretty cool. Seems like he knows what he’s doing. But unless even if they click one of your links, and you get a kickback a lot of times that’s it. But if they go to your site, and like always got a podcast, and they say always got some really good topics here, that they listen to you for an hour, not just a 10 minute video, that’s where it really becomes powerful. And it’s interesting. I’ve had a lot of people I’ve kind of kept track of people who reach out who get into my courses.

Josh 48:46
And this is the typical pathway, they find me on YouTube for a quick tutorial, then they realize that I have a ton of tutorials. And then like oh, cool, then they realize they have a podcast and they start listening to the podcast. And then they’re interested in a course. And then it’s multiple course sales. And now it’s like once I get my membership going, then it’ll be on because that’s the other thing too. Like the idea here is for us not like not we don’t want to just do a quick, like we don’t want to get a quick sale on run, we want to help people. And it’s really hard to do that when somebody just disappears after they purchase something.

Josh 49:20
But one reason I’m really excited about a membership is I want to like keep track of my students I want to make sure there’s more like and that’s the problem with courses too is a lot of time somebody will take a course and then they might just disappear. But I want to like circle back around and help them and that’s where I think the membership portion comes in. So absolutely. That’s kind of my that’s a little peek into my game plan here moving forward and yeah, the podcast man in there’s a lot of personal growth into it too. And, and to be honest, like it saves me like this talk right now. I don’t have to try out Skillshare because I can talk to you and find out well, what went wrong, you know?

Mac 49:56
Absolutely. Absolutely. So yeah, it’s it’s great. I mean, it’s very inspiring when I saw you’re doing these interviews and your podcast was like, wow, this is this is really cool. Because, like you say, creating courses, I mean, it’s a matter of similar to how we create our YouTube videos, that can be, you know, you can learn that that’s not very difficult is the marketing, and having a podcast and doing, you know, like an online show or stuff like that. That’s part of the marketing and people need to know trust and, and pretty much have rapport with you, in order for them to buy from you. Because you can’t just pop up there and say, Look, I have a Divi course and people buy, they have to have I mean, they have to know you, like and trust you. And the only and the best way you can do that is either you know, video or having a, like a show or even like a podcast in this case, because you can get to talk about even deeper stuff about you know, yourself people get to know you, you know, yes, your ups and downs and your you know, your troubles. Know. Exactly.

Josh 51:02
That’s a great point. Yeah, I know, like and trust are the big three for any business. If you want to have success, your clients have to know like and trust you. And yeah, I found what tutorials, they might like you and they might trust you. But they don’t get to know you like you can’t, it’s barely hard to do a 10 minute tutorial and talk about something deep in your life that’s impacted you. But you can do that on a podcast, because a lot of people are just listening to you when they’re driving. They’re cool to sit with you for an hour if you have a really good talk. So yeah, that’s been the other thing is I can talk about a lot of these personal type of things that I’ve gone through as a web designer. And then family like I’m very open about my family life and work life balance. And I don’t know if you know, but a couple years ago, my daughter when she was born, we spent two months in the NICU.

Josh 51:46
So we have 56 days in the NICU and I talked about how I tried to keep my business going through that time. Like, those are the kinds of things that I can’t put into a tutorial, but a podcast lends itself perfectly to that I would encourage you to man, aside from the interviews is to do solo episodes, too. Because, you know, like some of your videos are like that. They could almost be a podcast, which I’m actually repurposing some my content as podcast episodes. So yeah, you’re man, you could, you could, you could have an incredible show. Now you do have a now when i starts web design, in my podcast app, I see you I see your face. It’s the funnels to income podcast, but it’s it looked like it’s a audio like, look right now. So if I go to you, if I go to iTunes, and maybe you can do this too after if you want, if you have a web, if you type in web design, and Apple postcasts.

Mac 52:39
Just sorry, sorry. Sorry, before before you continue. How’s your daughter, by the way? Because, you know, what I saw was just you posting on on Facebook. How does she know?

Josh 52:48
Thank you, man. Yeah, she She’s good. She has ensure a developmental like a chromosomal it’s called a micro chromosome deletion, which just means that her development is behind on some areas. And what we’re finding she’s just she’s just petite, she’s really small. And she’s about six months to a year behind on like speech and walking and stuff. But she’s doing great apart from that. And she did have a cleft lip and cleft palate. So we’ve gone through three surgeries over the past two years. It’s been wild. It’s been a wild journey. But she is awesome. She’s amazing. So yeah, we’re still kind of in that journey. And we’re not sure exactly what it is going to look like moving forward as far as the developmental stuff. But I mean, she’s, she’s just incredible. And then I have a four month old now too. So it’s wild. Yeah. It’s all it’s all kinds of wild.

Mac 53:38
Yeah, that’s awesome. That’s awesome. I’m glad to hear that she’s okay. You know, that’s, that’s, that’s great news.

Josh 53:44
Thanks, man. Yeah, and you know what, and I’ve talked about this numerous times on the podcast, but that’s what it inspired me to start my maintenance plan. And well, my main his main course I had my maintenance plan going and then going through the NICU really inspired me to like boost my maintenance plan for that recurring income. And then I built my maintenance plan up to cover our bills. And that’s when I was like, Alright, I’ve got to make a chorus out of this because it’s, it’s too valuable to and that’s the other thing with course creation like what Val you know, you learned so much and a handful of years doing web design, why not give back your experience. And this is the other thing I’ll say with course stuff. You and I have very similar courses. I have similar courses to like David and Tim over WP gears. The thing is, though, we all have different experiences. So you could take the same Divi business course but the the different instructor, you’ll have a whole different experience because yes, you get to hear from their their perspective. Yes, that’s the other big thing.

Mac 54:39
And also I mean, even though the the courses may seem similar, people probably I mean, we’ll buy from Josh or buy for Mac because it’s Mac you know what I mean? Right? So that’s that’s why the marketing is also very, very important. So even me with the way I looked at my courses, I don’t look at it like I’m in competition with you. Because, I mean, there’s so ton of people out there that want to learn. So it’s about choosing which instructor they I mean, teach them, you know, the best thing they want. Maybe I’m too all over the place and too loud. So they want someone who’s a bit calm. Maybe they want Josh, so.

Josh 55:14
Though, right though it’s like, yeah, like it’s coopetition. And that’s where that’s where being an affiliate is big too. Like, I’m an affiliate for David and Tim’s business course. And that was great for me. And same thing for you. Like, if you have courses, that I don’t cover those topics? And absolutely, I know, like, and trust Max, I’m going to trust to send my students there and vice versa, like, yeah, if I have some courses that your student you don’t offer, then you can join my affiliate program and then send them over to me. And so when we’re all.

Mac 55:41
I mean definitely, I mean, we can work something out and, you know, help each other out. And I mean, that that way that that’ll be Yeah, absolutely, man.

Josh 55:49
Yeah, but I appreciate you asking about Bria my first daughter. Yeah, she’s, she’s awesome. It’s definitely been a journey. But she’s incredible. Just makes it all worth it. And I, and I meant to mention, so yeah, if you search web design, and at least I when I search it into my apple podcast app, your face comes up first. And it’s WordPress user TV. So Wow. I don’t know if you I know. Yeah, uh, you somehow you must have set something up to wear because it is interesting. Even when I look at the episodes, it shows like a little TV icon. So I don’t know if it was something with your YouTube channel. But yeah, you absolutely. If you if you type in web design, you come up with red background, your face and it says WordPress user TV.

Mac 56:36
That’s very interesting because I set up a podcast, not like a podcast, podcast podcast, like what we’re doing right now. But I set up a channel this is going back like, what, seven years, eight years now. So what I was doing was, I was just posting my YouTube videos on there. You see what I mean? So I guess this is?

Josh 56:56
Yeah, definitely ID. It’s got to be it. Let’s see there’s a well there are some from 2019, Divi Summer Sale free WordPress mastery course these were in July, how to build your own online course. Divi WooCommerce design looks like those are all posted in July. So yeah, I guess somehow that was fed into the podcast.

Mac 57:16
That’s yeah, weird. So I’m ranking for web design.

Josh 57:19
Dude, you’re number one. Yeah, you should check it out. Yeah. And it’s probably because you’ve been so consistent. I mean, it looks like there’s 100 episodes that have popped up and they date back to 2015.

Mac 57:30
Yeah, there you go. So 2015 is when I set it all up. So I was just adding all my YouTube videos on to the podcast thing in in Libsyn. So that’s what I was doing. It’s not it was it’s not really like a podcast podcast. So if you go to one of those episodes, yep. It’s just a copy of my video on YouTube. That’s all it is.

Josh 57:51
That’s exactly what it is. Yeah, I just clicked one. And then you just popped up. And it just brought like it popped open A. Let’s see. Yeah, it just pops opened my iTunes player as a video. So you go see? Yeah, so you were posting those and through Lipson and messages Yeah. You you technically have a podcast going it’s just not a audio. It’s a video podcast.

Mac 58:11
Wow. That’s super interesting. So I’m definitely gonna go with this idea though.

Josh 58:16
Yeah, I can’t Yeah, I’m really excited for you, man to do the podcast. I took Pat Flynn’s podcasting course which was invaluable I can give you a there’s a cheat sheet to a free download cheat sheet. I’ll send you to a really worthwhile it’s because it’s just like anything with a website design. It’s good to think through it. And the other parts of the podcast is like you can overthink it, like I overthought my title, my artwork everything and and I was like, You know what, I’m just I’m going with it going with a Josh all web design show. I was at war with myself whether it should be Divi specific or should I have like, I just didn’t know I was like, Nope, I’m just gonna cuz you can always change it. You can always change a title or change something.

Mac 58:56
You know, I’ve changed so many names. I had WordPress user TV, I had Divi University, then that’s right, yeah. University and then now I’m just like, You know what? I’m done with this. I’m just gonna call this funnels to income because that way it’s broad. I can grow with it. I can, I can talk about different topics in there. And also talk about my journey in trying to be successful online and tried to be financially independent because right now I’m still on that journey. I’m not I’m not on the six figures yet. So. So I’d like to teach you know, what I’m learning through the journey and share that with you know, the audience.

Josh 59:35
Really, it’s so valuable and it like so they just get to know you like, you know, you see you on YouTube, but how anyone does that how many people know you have five kids? Like that’s, that’s crazy. That’s, you know, that like, sadly, and I think that breeds the trust in it, too. When somebody gets to know you and know your experience, it’s like, okay, this is this person’s legit. Cuz there’s a lot of scammers out there. And yeah, yeah, I see it. I’m excited for it, man. That’s awesome. Cool. Well, man, Max has been a great talk. Hey, I know. I know your time is super valuable. And I know you actually have a limited time in your studio. Right? You get booted out at some point.

Mac 1:00:09
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. What time is it now? So I have about 45 minutes, but I still have to do a bit of work, catch up with my emails and stuff like that.

Josh 1:00:17
Gotcha. Well, hey, man, I’ll let you go here. Thanks for your time. Hey, do you have like a final thought for anyone in this top? Any I guess anything we’ve gone over, but particularly anything would like owning your content? Any any final thought you’d like to share?

Mac 1:00:29
Yeah, sure. What I’d like to say is when it comes to creating constants and constants right now, is very, very valuable. So making sure you have your content on your own platforms is key. I mean, even when it comes to websites, funnels, your courses, it’s best to have it on your on your platform. So just to give you a few examples, like let’s say for example, when it comes to hosting your website, these weeks, I know we spoke about this Wix, Squarespace and so on. Now, the alternative to that is obviously WordPress, and even the Divi, if you buy Divi and use that to mean you have the license, and you can use it on as many websites as you want. So yes, there’s a, there’s a, there’s a learning curve, but it’s priceless. You know, once you learn how to do it, there’s a ton of tutorials out there, once you learn how to do it yourself, you’re good.

Mac 1:01:18
When it comes to courses, you’ve created the course I mean, the videos anyways, so why put them on a separate platform, which is going to own your content. So again, it’s just a bit of a learning curve, set it up with LearnDash, or lifter LMS and have it on on your own website. Now the advantages to that as well is if you have your courses and your blog, on the same website, you can promote your content to your courses through your blog. So if you had these separate, you can see you’re putting you know, you’re getting traffic to these platforms that you don’t own. And if something goes wrong, like we mentioned, they have the the popularity from your SEO and all your hard work for promoting those courses going to different websites. So you’d rather have it on your own website. And this can help your website rank as well.

Mac 1:02:05
So that’s the that’s one thing. The other thing as well with courses is having upsells and down cells also helps you make more money with your courses. And some of these platforms not even offer that. And your prices can be you know, reduced. And you can be banned on these platforms. And once that happens, pretty much you’re done. So this is why i i highly recommend that anyone out there that wants to build courses or even want to build their own websites, try and look for solutions where you can host your own your own contents and your own websites. That way you own everything. So the only thing that you need to worry about is hosting and that can be done very, very easily. Yeah, so that’s, those are my last thoughts on that.

Josh 1:02:52
That’s great, man. That’s gold. Yeah, I was gonna put some input into that, but you just said what I was gonna say. So yeah, that’s awesome. Well, Matt, thanks for your time. This has been a great chat, man. Definitely keep me posted on your podcasts. And if you want to have me on I’d love to man. I’ll share everything I’ve learned with courses or whatever you want to chat about man.

Mac 1:03:08
Oh, fantastic guy. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.

Josh 1:03:11
All right, man. Talk soon, buddy. All right, take care.

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