Collecting content from clients can often be the most frustrating and draining aspects of web design. If not done correctly, it can delay projects by weeks and months, confuse and overwhelm clients and derail projects completely.

In this episode, I’ve brought my colleague James Rose, founder of ContentSnare.com and who I consider to be a master at collecting content, back onto the podcast to share best practices on how we can collect content successfully.

In This Episode:

03:48 – Welcome to James
06:02 – Love saving time
09:35 – Why clients stall
11:11 – Manage expectations
12:32 – Empathy for the client
14:55 – Making it easy for clients
19:19 – Break it into bits
23:44 – Written content assistance
29:25 – Image size issues
35:27 – Communication is key
42:43 – Reminders are easy
47:00 – Keeping momentum going
50:09 – Don’t be a 24/7 designer
51:09 – Worst case scenarios
54:00 – Tool recommendations
1:00:12 – James’ final thoughts

You can also view the full transcription of this episode below.

The methods and strategies we cover in this talk will work with no matter what tools you use but if you’re interested in trying Content Snare out for yourself, be sure to use code JOSHHALL at checkout for a special 20% OFF as a listener of the Josh Hall Web Design Show podcast.

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Connect with James Rose:

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No one says “I want to wake up and remind people to send me images”. – James

Josh 0:16
Hey, everybody, welcome into Episode 57. All right, in this one, we are going to be talking in depth about how to…brace yourself, because we’re going to talk about two words that most web designers fear and just dread and that is collect content. Yes, we’re going to be talking about collecting content from your web design clients, but more importantly, how to actually do it well, and how to efficiently get that content. Because I found that there are really two main areas of web design that are just like the bane of our existence as web designers. One we tackled a handful of episodes back on episode 50, which was how to limit revisions. I found revisions and feedback to be one of the biggest aspects of web design that can be draining and drag a project out for a long time. The other aspect of it is collecting content. And that’s what we’re going to tackle in this episode. And for this talk, I’ve brought in somebody who I consider to be a real master at this subject, and this is my colleague, James rose. He’s been on the podcast before he was on the podcast awhile back. We talked about how to automate aspects and areas of your business. But the thing about James is that he’s really big on this idea of how to collect content from your clients. In fact, he got so familiar with it and learn so much about it that he ended up creating a software called Content Snare, which is all about collecting content from clients in order to help speed the process up and make sure you don’t you know, devastate yourself during a project. But the cool thing about this is what we cover in this episode, it doesn’t matter what tools you use, we lay out practical and actual proven, real world tested strategies for collecting content. No matter again what project management system you use or whatever tools you use, that are really going to help you. So I can’t wait to hear how this episode helps you out. Now, if you’re curious about a little more about my methods with how I’ve collected content from clients over the years, I do share quite a bit in this interview. However, I really take it to the next level in my web design business course. So if you like this interview, and you really want to learn more about how to collect content, you’d like to see what I’ve actually done like real world examples, and screen flows or screencasts of me like walking you through how I have all my templates set up and you want to get access, actually, to my email templates and everything. I’d love to provide that for you and we can do that through my web design business course. And I would love to help you and your web design business, particularly in this area of collecting content. But without further ado, I want to get right into it because James is just a wealth of knowledge in this subject. And again, he’s the creator of Content Snare, but that’s just one tool of many that you can use and collecting content. So no pressure on that. I want you to enjoy this episode and apply all these principles. However, if you do want to go with Content Snare, I’ve arranged a special deal for you guys as my listeners. And you can use promo code “Joshhall” all one word for 20% off Content Snare and the cool thing about it is they have a free trial so you can always give it a go, see how it goes, get used to the platform, and then when you move forward just be sure to use that code Joshhall for your 20% off. All right, guys, well enjoy this episode on collecting content and then be sure to let me know how your content collection goes after implementing all the strategies and processes that we cover in this episode. I want to hear how it helps you out. You can just leave a comment on the show notes for this episode. Enjoy. Apply. Let’s have some fun.

Josh 3:48
James, great to have you on the podcast again, man.

James 3:52
Josh, good to be back. It’s been a little while.

Josh 3:54
Yeah, it has been a little while. Yeah, you are one of my earliest episodes, and great to have have you on again, this time, we’re going to be talking about a subject that, look, let’s be honest, web design has a lot of amazing and fun things about it. Personally, I love the ability to have the freedom and just to create whatever life I want and work when wherever I want. The creativity that comes with it. The fact that you can do meaningful, impactful work is just amazing. However, there’s a couple things that aren’t so fun in web design and one, one biggie is collecting content. And the reason I wanted to have you on to address this, you know, big challenge that we all face as web designers, is because you are like a master at this, and I’ve seen you talk about collecting content for several years now. And every time I hear about it, there’s always something new that just resonates with me. So I wanted to have you on to officially tackle this beast of collecting content. Before we do that before we dive in for folks who didn’t listen to your first episode, which I’ll make sure I link in the show notes, why don’t you let everyone know where you are in the world and what you do.

James 5:00
Yeah, well I’m in Brisbane, Australia, which right now is coping fairly well from the whole COVID situation. We have closed the borders to our state, much to the dismay of everyone not in our state but everyone here is very happy about it. But yes, so Content Snare is our main thing right so I guess when you were saying that, you know, you’ve heard me present on this and quote unquote “master” I was like I friggin want to be after doing this like having your main product collecting content from clients for three years or whatever it is now. Yeah, it’s it’s been a huge part of I guess what we do. We we’ve learned from agencies and people that aren’t getting content, I don’t do it myself anymore, agency is pretty much non existent. So yeah, it’s just that and then have a blog on the side. Jimmy rose told me all about productivity automation, and that’s just I love that stuff because I’ve saving people time. I guess that’s kind of the same thing that contents net does. I just am kind of tired of people doing too much work all the time. I see it all the time.

Josh 6:08
Yeah, I love that man. I mean, the first episode I had you on, that’s what we talked about was automating your business to save up your, save yourself, basically, and your schedule and free time up. We hit on content a little bit, but I knew we were gonna follow up with this episode, because this deserves its own episode with the strategies that you’ve learned. I think before we dive in a quick backstory on how you created Content Snare and why you created that I think it’d be really beneficial, like, did you so you ran an agency and you had the same issues that we all have with trying to get content? And did you reach a breaking point that you were like, I’ve you know, like we’ve got to create something to help out with this? What was the origin of Content Snare?

James 6:48
You know, I wish it was as you know, I wish I could claim responsibility for it to coming Oh, yeah, this is good. This great idea. Let’s go and build the thing. I actually had my heart set on another product. We’ve been in software since 2010, so we always wanted to create another software product, we’d sold the previous one, Silver Siphon. And we were just looking for something else to do and I stumbled on this, like, I don’t know what you call it, but just this methodology of asking people what their problems are. And I had this idea for something in web design. And the whole idea is to go into meetings with people with no preconceptions not like trying to feed them, the idea that you have in your mind, just talking about what the biggest bottlenecks in that process are, or your biggest problems they face. And out of like, this is something like 15 or 20 people I interviewed, every single one of them mentioned something about getting information or content as one of the biggest problems they had. So that’s when I went, Oh, this other thing I’m thinking about now that we’ve got to work on, it was a briefing tool, but it’s long gone now that, you know, the content clearly was the biggest issue that people were facing and then it was really just like sitting down and going, Yeah, well, we have that problem too. Why didn’t I think of that? And then trying to create a solution that worked and testing a few things.

Josh 8:10
Gotcha. Gotcha, that makes sense. And then when Content Snare took off for you, did you decide like, I want to do this, you know, full time and take this to a whole other level and get out of the agency work or what did that look like? Just out of curiosity.

James 8:24
Um, to be honest, I was kind of getting over the agency stuff anyway. It’s just my personality doesn’t really gel well with like, a lot of one on one work. I do a bit now with like Zapier and automation consulting, but that’s kind of it. I’m not a project work kind of person. I guess, maybe it’s because I’m so over it from my engineering days. But yeah, so it was always a case of like, if we can make this work, we will drop the agency and at some point, you know, it became a big enough source of income for us that we could slow down the agency side. So we still have one big client that just pays it’s like a monthly retainer and that helps us grow Contact Snare faster. And by, like, by that, I mean put in better features and spends more on development than we make in revenue. Thankfully right now, but uh…

Josh 9:16
Yeah. That’s awesome, though, man. I mean, that’s great. You’re making a big impact on a lot of people. And, look, let’s talk about how we can impact everyone listen to this man. Let’s start off with why clients stall. You mentioned this in a presentation you recently did on the Designer Boss summit that I was a part of. And I love the way you said that like, why clients stall because there’s some psychology with that, too. And why it’s so hard with collecting content. I mean, there’s a lot of practical things you can imagine like first of all, just say, and I’ll share some of my experience with this too. If you just tell a client to give me content, it’s probably not going to go well because of all the reasons you can imagine. They’re going to send it to you on Friday night through text or through a Word doc, you need it. tell people how to do it. But before we talk about the process and stuff, yeah, why don’t we just talk about why clients stall. Like, why is it why is this such a problem for web designers?

Say it early, reiterate often – James

James 10:09
Yeah, totally. Well, the main thing is that it’s just too difficult for them. And the easiest way to sort of think about this too is if you’re in your client shoes, and you’ve just been through, I’m sure everyone listening has hired someone to do something before. And it almost feels like once you’ve made the decision to choose this designer or this person to work with, it feels like the works done. You’ve been going through this like process you’ve like looked at the proposal, you’ve looked at multiple designers maybe sign the proposal, pay the deposit, it feels like you’ve got this huge load off your shoulders. And then the first email they get is heres 100 page Google document for you to fill out or like, here’s like 100 items in an email, you can reply to and type some stuff in. I need images and files and all this sort of stuff. So if that’s the first thing they see. It’s immediately like a terrible experience for them, because they thought they just got this load off. And then you’ve just made it, like put it all back on them. And the biggest way to sort that out is just managing expectations, right? Like, I feel like it’s a really, it’s fairly simple to do, right? Just make sure it’s mentioned upfront, in whether it’s like a briefing form, or in your initial call, when you’re talking to them. It’s the kind of thing you need to say early and reiterate often, I don’t know whose quote, I’m stealing there, but it’s, you know, it’s you need to say it in multiple places, whether it’s, you know, your page on your website that says how your process works, it needs to be there. The biggest holdup we have in every project is waiting on content. You know, here’s the timelines in the proposal. These are how long this is how long you have to get back to us. For content for design, feedback, whatever it is, you know, asterisk. This is where the biggest holdup is. So making it really clear to them and also give giving them options for help with content, right? Like if you say, you’re not gonna have the time to do this, we can help you source a copyright out. There’s an upsell opportunity there for you to make more money from that client. So, you know, and get their project on foster help them out, you know, it’s not, I don’t know, I feel like that’s just such an easy fix, in a way just so they expect what you’re about to lump lump onto them.

Josh 12:24
I love two things that you said there. Oh, I loved it all. But I love to do two things really stuck out to me. And that was, first of all, you put yourself in your clients shoes. Most web designers struggle with that. And I did too. I had to really start to learn to be empathetic to their situation and put myself in the shoes of a business owner who’s busy running their own business. And they’ve got a lot of crap on their table and then eventually, yeah, like you said, when they move forward with you, you’re likely not the first person they’ve talked to. And that’s a big decision, particularly if you’re going to drop you know, several thousand dollars or more on a website. There’s a lot that goes into that mentally. So by the time you get around to this, as a web designer, you want to make it as easy as possible. So I love that you are empathetic. And then I also love that you address the fact that this is the challenging part for the client, like you can’t just be mad at the client, because they’re not sending you a client, well, you probably didn’t set those expectations and guide them through that. And I also love that you talked about mentioning things in the beginning and consistently like don’t overwhelm him with it, but just a little astericks, just let him know, hey, by the way, you know, collecting content is a big part of this. And I talked to, I really recommend doing that with maintenance plans to like, same thing with maintenance plans, you want to at least drop the hint there and drop a seed. That way, once you get at the end of the project, you’re like, hey, if you don’t sign up on a monthly plan, your site’s gonna get hacked eventually, then they’re like, Wait what? Like, I didn’t know there was something recurring that we needed or should do. But in any case, with the content stuff, this is huge man. And I think one of the hardest aspects of content collection is that it’s different for every project. It’s not a one sided I think, I know we’re going to talk about the process here and you can do a lot of things the same through every project. But as you know, with web design, there’s projects are just different shapes, different sizes, people are different. Some people are just really scattered and unorganized. And they work wild hours. I personally love working with military people, because I find them to be very time sensitive, and they get stuff done on deadlines, and they’re organized. I’ve had like, the most amazing experience experiences working with people from the military, whereas they’re in certain industries, mostly artists and creatives. It’s just all over the place. So I think that’s where, you know, we understand why it’s so hard and what the challenges are for our clients. But I guess there’s

James 14:42
One thing I should probably add there before we talk about the process, because you actually mentioned it there and I didn’t. It’s literally just the fact that it’s too hard for them. So that’s the other part the main piece of this as we just talked about setting expectations, but it’s also making it easy for them because they’re not going to do it. If it’s a super hard task, you know, like if the first thing they get, even if you’ve told them to expect that they need to write the content, if you just send an email and say, send me a homepage content, they’re going to be Like what? Like, what goes on the home page? You know? So that’s what we’ll get into.

Josh 15:15
Yeah. So what does that look like? What the process like do you? Do you recommend people let clients know of like, the tools you’ll use to collect the content? Is there like a step by step approach that you find that has worked best for for your agency from years ago, but then also, for people using Content Snare? Like what’s the best way to think about your process?

James 15:35
Right. So with regards to letting him know what tools yet actually, I’d probably recommend doing that up front, like, again, as part of the proposal or whatever, as part of that setting expectations, right. And you actually also made a really good point on proposals there and like letting them know about what comes after the website like maintenance and marketing, really good opportunities to mention that stuff as well. And not like buried Terms and Conditions as well, like that should be on the front page. It’s like, you know, the biggest risks to the project is getting content or you’re not sending us design feedback. And you know, here’s the timelines. And like, here’s what happens after, you know, that’s like the really important stuff to me. But anyway, the process itself is, so it’s really just making it easy for clients, right? So generally, like if you send them a message that says, give me a homepage content, they don’t know where to start. They don’t know what to write, or what it will look like. They’re kind of the three major things that you need to address with your clients. You just need to like, overall, you need to make the process really easy. That’s what it comes down to. But if you think about your client who’s not a designer, you know, they haven’t seen they haven’t been involved in the process of building 100 websites before you have and you can visualize what a website it’s gonna look like before you’ve they’ve even signed the proposal. You’ve got some ideas in your head. But it’s going to look like and that kind of thing. But they don’t if you just like you can go, okay, homepage, we’re going to need like a hero header, we’re gonna have a button, we’re gonna, you know, an image on the side or background image. You know, we need a headline, maybe a subhead and then we can have a section after that with some, like logos and social proof. Like you’re building that picture. They don’t have any of that. So if you just guys send me a homepage content, they’re gonna go What?

Josh 17:26
I remember getting like a headline or a title that was literally like three sentences long. And I’m like that that’s the first paragraph of the page that is not a title. So yeah, and then same thing like if you use verbiage like that, like “hero image”, 99.9% of clients aren’t and have no idea what you’re talking about. Maybe the one who dabbled in web design them themselves at some point. So yeah, and I think that’s important too, right, like making the verbiage relatable, like talking to their level when it comes to this kind of stuff. And I think Yeah, you’re talking about visualizing it as well, which is probably key.

James 18:03
Yeah. So there are a couple of things. And just before that there are two sides to how people use Content Snare, what kind of content you collect? It isn’t necessarily always the exact content that’s going on the website. Some people do that, you know, where the client writes all the content. Sometimes it’s more of like a questionnaire about like, what are your goals and missions and values and blah, blah, blah, blah. You can still people, you still use Content Snare for that kind of thing where they get the initial information and then craft that into the actual copy, you know, like, what’s a one sentence statement of what you do? Or what’s the one sentence benefits or whatever that your clients getting? Then they brought that into the copy. But if you are writing exact, like getting the client to write the exact copy, yeah, so you mentioned it there with the three sentence header. If you just had a little image, like a mock up of what the head the head is going to look like, you know, and this doesn’t have to be the exact image of what the website is going to look like. It’s just gonna be a mock up, you know, a classic UX style wireframe sort of thing and say, this is where the head is gonna go, this is where the buttons gonna go, and then have a box for them to type that heading in with some actual guidance around how to write a heading. Like this is the so these are the things I’m always saying break it down into bits. Number one, so heading, image, button text, whatever it is, put some guidance along with each of those items. So here’s how to write a headline, it should aim for six to 12 words, no fluff, it should describe, you know, for someone coming to the website for the first time that it needs to capture their attention in three seconds, blah, blah, blah, maybe even link out to a guide on how to write headlines like we literally have done that before. And the third piece is visualization. So actually having that mock up to say this is what it’s going to look like when they can see that it makes it so much easier for them to get like build that picture of what’s in your mind. Because they don’t have that picture. You’re trying to get that picture out of your mind, into their’s, and then they can look at it. Like you might even label the picture and say, number one, he’s the heading. And then the box says heading, here’s how to write a heading, put it in here, and actually limit that to like 150 characters so if they talked over, it doesn’t let them submit it.

Josh 20:16
Yeah, and I know we’ll talk about tools because you could do this obviously with Content Snare, but you could also do some, some free and practical ways with like Google Docs and some other stuff. But this is I mean, we’re talking about probably the worst case scenario for collecting content. And by that I mean somebody who’s like really doing a lot of the content, like a lot of my clients would just give me you know, a paragraph or a page and then I would work with that and add on to it, or we get some copywriting help or we’d kind of my for me personally, website redesigns and clients that were fairly hands off were the best, but those who really wanted to have a lot of control which is going to happen in everyone’s experience, we need to be prepared for that. So this is where like having this type of process is huge. So that makes total sense man making it easy for them and doing it and would you say bites or phases or chunks like you don’t want it, you don’t want to tell your client to you don’t want to send them over a 20 page website, basically, that they’re going to have. That’s a lot of work for them to do. But if you could do it in sections, and even like my web design process, the way I do it, is we’ll do design, we’ll design the front page, and then usually a sub page or like a product or something, and then send that over for review. And what a perfect time to like get the content for the first space for those pages. And then once that’s done, and we’re working on revisions, then they can fill out the content for the other pages. And by the time you have the revision ready and the front page is agreed upon, then you have the content for the rest of the pages. That’s that’s how it’s worked out well for me and I imagine with this type of process, that’s what would work.

James 21:48
Yeah, and if you are doing design first, it’s super easy to literally like just copy out that header that you’ve designed and whack it into whatever tool you know Contents Snare, Google Docs and that goes a long way to helping them visualize what they actually need. Yeah, it all just comes down to making it easy. Like, if you ask for, if you send an email, it says, Okay, now send me the content for your homepage about page services and contact or something. You know, that’s just way too, they don’t know where to start. So but if you send a thing that says, send me your content for your homepage, and it’s a document or a Content Snare, or whatever, that has all the different bits and pieces, and they can work through that one at a time, so much easier. It’s like, it’s like if a mortgage broker or loan officer I think you guys call them in the US, comes to you and says, Give me all the documents you need to get a loan. Like what do I?

Josh 22:37
That is a great analogy. That’s a great point, man. Yeah, that’s absolutely yes. Yeah. I mean, and again, putting yourself in the shoes of the client, like they don’t know anything about web design or best practices or anything. And and let’s be honest, some people are really good with words and content, others are not so having that guidance that would show them like okay, you know, I just need to limit myself to a couple paragraphs here, not a 10 page story about, you know, something that is going to be on the homepage, that’s not going to work well, so that that makes total sense, man. Now what about the clients that really are just not wordsmiths, but they’re providing content? Do you have any tips on helping them out? Other than getting a copywriter? Like, is it seeing the amount of words or asking them certain questions that make them think about their services or their business? Because I imagine we’re not talking about SEO. But if your client sends you a couple paragraphs for the homepage, and it’s not gonna do anyone any good, you’re gonna have to revise it and get some help in that area. So yeah, what do you have any tips for helping clients with content? I guess that’s my question.

James 23:42
Yeah. So that you’re always gonna have that kind of trouble. We try to so with concepts now we have this like client success pack, and it’s literally just a bunch of different guides on how to write different things like how to write headlines or sub headlines or how to write a good About page. You No, and you can go to any level of this and tell them how to do. You can give them all kinds of guides, information, videos and training, but there are some people that are still going to struggle with it. And at that point, you know, you kind of have to draw a line and go like, Guys, we this is terrible. Maybe say it more diplomatically, we really recommend getting someone to write this, what you should absolutely not do that I see so many designers doing is just rewriting it for free. Yeah, like you haven’t charged them to do that. But it’s like, if you just chuck your hands up in the air and go, like, we can’t, you know, we can’t publish this or whatever. I’m just gonna do it for free. Like, don’t do that to yourself. The amount of designers that do that it’s not good. It’s an opportunity for an upsell. And I guess it at some level, you might have certain clients that are just push back and say just publish what we’ve got. Look, maybe that’s just client selection.

Josh 25:01
That’s been a rare, rare in my experience. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. If you do one that you’re just not proud of, yeah, take the money and don’t put in the portfolio. But yeah, no, that’s that’s a good point, like there are, you know, for me, in my experience that was rare to where somebody wouldn’t be receptive of that. But there were a couple circumstances where I’m like, I just don’t know what I’m gonna, what am I gonna do with this, like, I do, let them know, we’re gonna have to do something about this. And same thing, you need to definitely protect your time and charge for it accordingly, or get some help on that. That should be talked about earlier. And inevitably, even if the client says I’m good, I want to write the content, then that’s where you may just mention like, and kind of an alt in there somewhere in the proposal, that it does need to comply with best practices and standards for SEO rankings. Like if you want to get good SEO rankings, but your content is not built for SEO, we’re gonna need to optimize that. So that’s something that people could do as well. Just kind of protecting your your own butt there by saying, you know, You’re welcome to do the content, but we may need to optimize it if it’s doesn’t comply with best standards, and we’re doing this for you, like we don’t want to spend all this time and have you spend this time writing a bunch of content that’s not going to work, not even aesthetically, but like literally for Google. So

James 26:16
Yeah, that’s the kind of thing you can look he said have it in that proposal upfront and have it as an option like a copy review or something, you know, you may even build that into your prices. It’s like that’s just part of our process. You know, if you do not work with an expert, like an actual copywriter that we’ve recommended, then we need to review every page you might have some exceptions for that but.

Josh 26:37
Yeah, I mean, I think I always did it was it was a it was a deliverable. It was a line in my proposal because inevitably you are going to tweak your website content for your clients there again, they’re not copywriters, some of them might be good at writing, but writing for letterhead and for stories or whatever is completely different than websites particularly because a lot of clients when it comes to conversion based design. This is a little aside, but people scan websites, they don’t read websites. So that needs to be factored in particularly for the front page. So there’s a lot of area where I feel like that should be standard at least optimizing the content. So I would definitely tell everyone to make that a part of your process and just let clients know you know, in order to make sure it’s your site is built for best practices and for SEO purposes, we’re gonna just optimize the content to make sure it’s as good as it can be.

James 27:31
Yeah, I love that you said that like writing your letterhead isn’t the same as writing you know, like a homepage. It’s so funny. The copywriting industry is just awful like that because everyone calls themselves a copywriter. But it does that mean sales copy like landing page copy email, copy blog posts, like about pages, everyone’s got their own sort of thing and they’re all copywriters. But I can tell you, you shouldn’t get a blog post writer to write your you know, email copy, for example.

Josh 27:59
Good point, man. It really is. It’s all very different. I’m kind of learning that myself. I’m like in the thick of it with that right now. Because the way I format and do a blog or podcast show notes page is completely different than how I would do a tutorial. And that’s different than how I would do a blog on Elegant Themes when I write for them. It’s also way different than I would format my homepage, and it’s way different than I would do social and email. So it’s it is it’s like, I never really thought about that. But yeah, it’s like 10 different styles of writing.

James 28:30
It’s awful. Yeah, I learned that the hard way just hiring someone who said they’re a copywriter to do sales copy, and I was like, this is a blog post.

Josh 28:37
Yeah, well, and the same thing can be said for clients for website content, like the way you want to have words on a homepage is very different, like on a services page. That’s where you can really get into the weeds of something and have some decent paragraphs. And if you have an About page with the story of your company, sure you can have a couple pages. I mean, my my about page on my site, It’s like several pages long, but it’s an About page. It’s my story. So yeah, it’s not gonna be the highlights, you know. So there are different styles of pages for website content too. And I think that’s where having that process and having those guidelines however you do it, whether it’s Content Snare, or Google Docs or something in place. That’s, that’s great, man. That’s key. Now, I did want to ask you about images and like media content. What have you found because clients have no idea and I’m not blaming them, I had no idea how big images were until I became a web designer. Most clients are going to send images over and then they’re gonna say, Ah, this is too big for email. I’ll just send Josh, one image at a time I’ll send them 20 emails with an image each email. I wish I could say that didn’t happen, you know, numerous numerous times. But before I had my process in place with Basecamp, and Dropbox and stuff, I had to learn that I’ve got to at least guide my clients with how they should give me the content and with images in an ideal world, a client would optimize them and it’d be ready for web. I just learned that I didn’t trust my clients to do that. And they’re not using Photoshop or Bridge or any of these compression tools. So I would generally just set up a dropbox folder with in some cases, all the images they want to give me for the site. If it’s like a five to 10 page brochure style site. In some advanced cases, we would set up the pages as folders in Dropbox and then I would just have them upload all the images there. If there’s certain galleries or stuff like that. Do you have any tips on images because this is a biggie? I see this all the time with my students who struggle with like, how do I get the media and the content from from clients, particularly if they want to send like a video over? What does that look like?

James 30:45
Use Content Snare. No. So your process is pretty much on it, right? Like most people don’t even go that far. Right? If you’ve got a good process written out, that says, Here’s how to provide you know, for each page is a folder wack ’em in there. You know, clients are probably still managed to screw that up, unfortunately, but it’s about the best you can do really, you know, unless you have like a naming convention where you say, like, for homepage, right home underscore, you know, pretty much any manual method of, of getting images from people is going to have potential ways they could screw it up, which is why people use Contest Snare because it’s just like drag and drop the image into this box. And, you know, we have the option to either rename it as the page that it’s on and the section that it’s in more keep the original file name, depending on you know, what you what your process looks like. But for what you would like your process, it sounds like you’re way ahead of most people already just having a decent like a folder structure, instructions on how to do it. Now as for optimizing for web and so now one big issue is file sizes right as in too small, usually like they give you a logo that’s like five pixels high or something. So having some constraints around that that’s where any forms based tool can help you out like, you know contents. Now you can obviously choose minimum width and maximum widths and heights and whatever forms tools like Gravity Forms, if you’re doing it that way. If you’re using Dropbox or online storage, you don’t really have that luxury. It’s really just a case of if they give you the wrong thing. Hit them up for another one.

Josh 32:25
Yeah, because usually, the common problem is that they send an image that’s like 10 megabytes, and it’s just massive. However, you hit the nail on the head, there’s the opposite problem where they send you know, they have a nice hero background image they send over, it’s 100 pixels wide. So you have to let them know like, it’s gonna look terrible when we blow this up. And they’re like, Well, what do you mean it looks fine, like well, then then you can get a really technical conversation, then you’re going to overwhelm your client, which you don’t want to do. So it makes total sense that you want to have some prime parameters at least there. Yeah. Now I never got too technical on that. It really was fairly rare. If that would happen, the more common issue for me was the big images, in which case, we would just optimize them. And then we delete the original images they sent over to save space.

James 33:09
Yeah, and the big ones, the big image is actually fairly easy to, to sort that a lot of a lot of designers still don’t want to, you know, that’s why we brought in those image constraints, image size constraints, but when we were doing this, I just used a batch resize tool. You know, there’s literally a shell like it puts it on the right click menu in windows that they literally called like image optimizer or image read bulk image resize, I can’t remember what it was. But you literally just got a whole directory, right click resize as maximum this and it would go right. Yeah, scripts like that in other Photoshop type tools.

Josh 33:45
Yeah, I use Adobe Bridge for bulk photo editing, which is very similar to like what you could do with… Photoshop, I tried it I always found that a bit clunky. So because Bridge is like a photography type of program, and once I learned that man when a client sent me over 200 images, I wasn’t afraid anymore because I could go in and I could segregate them and their different folders. And then I could batch optimize. And it was amazing. Like, you could even change the URLs in a batch. But there’s a free version for this too. There’s, there’s, like you said, there’s a ton of different tools. I’ll just link to those in the show notes, though, because the free tool is what I gave my clients if they ever did images, but yeah, that makes sense. In any case, sounds like it’s the same methodology. Give them some guidance, or even some guidelines.

James 34:27
Yeah, you can get you can get pretty complicated with that batching too, right? Like I remember we had a wine store that had literally like 2000 wines. And they gave us images that were like, you know, landscape and portrait and like it was unbelievably all over the place. And we ended up writing a script that would you know, open them up sent to them and like reduce the width to like 1000 and then crush the the high end as well and then put like a black, whatever the color box around. It wasn’t all of that was bash scripted to do like 2000 images and it was amazing.

Josh 34:59
Yeah, we just recently, couple months ago, we wrapped up on a big e commerce project with over 10 hundred or 200 products. And that was one of the issues was, they did a good job of providing content and all the separate folders, but we didn’t really specify the ideal size, which I don’t know, they could have done that anyway. So we had to basically manually do those. So I know Jonathan, my lead designer, probably have nightmares and flashbacks from that one. But, uh, but yeah, that makes sense, man. Yeah. So it sounds that you know, it’s all again, going back to communication, making them as you know, guide them again, you just need to guide them, you need to be their guide. And luckily, when it comes to being the guide, you can have a lot of this stuff in place in a document so you don’t have to literally do it every project.

James 35:40
Yeah, if you do have the folder structure like you had as long as they have a really easy to follow guides, like step one, like click this link, whatever it is how they, if it’s a Dropbox link, like step two, for your home page, put it in this folder here. Like, this is how we want you to name the folders is again, it’s just super super easy instructions for them.

Josh 36:01
Yeah, and in for everyone listening who’s already getting overwhelmed by this, just keep in mind James and I were talking about like the worst case scenario, I feel like with really in depth projects, in depth clients who are detailed, the majority of my web design projects did not need this much detail with the content collection. Most of them if it was a five to 10 page, brochure style site, usually one folder would be fine. They’d send me like 10 or 15 images, they’d give me all the content, sometimes they’d separate it by page, which was great. And then I could roll with that. But in extreme cases, we’d have to get more detailed, particularly if we were doing more content more SEO. But I wanted to transition and ask you two things here, James, about deadlines and reminders, because these are two very overlooked, but super, super important aspects of good content collection. Let’s talk about deadlines. How important is it to give our clients some sort of deadline not as in some like militaristic No overbearing type of designer trying to keep them going. But just for the sake of like, it’s good for them to to have some sort of deadline.

James 37:09
Yeah, so I’m kind of a fan of militaristic ones that are getting but there are varying levels of this, like how far you’re willing to, I guess push it, because sometimes you do need to be a little bit more aggressive. Obviously, deadlines are very important needs to be communicated in the proposal. And also, what needs to be communicated is what happens if they miss that deadline. Like if you give them two weeks for content collection, what happens then? Now, the typical thing I my absolute favorite way to handle this is a clause that says, If you miss a deadline, you know whether that’s for design feedback for content, whatever it is, your project gets, like depends what the wording you want to use. You could say archives, or we just say we stopped work on your project and it goes back into the queue and they might wind down.

Josh 38:00
I was gonna say backburner, but that didn’t sound as good as back at the queue.

James 38:04
Yeah. Well, so so well, yeah. So generally what we say is it goes back bonus. Yeah, I don’t know what the best word is but we just said, we stopped working. And then when you give us everything we need, then it goes back into the queue. So it doesn’t just go back to the queue. It just sits there on the side. And you know, right now we’ve got quite a few projects in the queue. So we can’t promise when we’ll get back to that. So that that line, oh, man that gets people moving.

Josh 38:33
I love that because I know I don’t know anyone personally, who has done this, but I’ve heard examples of agencies, probably the militaristic type of agencies who treat clients like numbers on a spreadsheet. That they would like charge them a fee if they miss their deadline, or they would have a much more harsher approach. But I like the idea of letting them know like, listen, this deadline isn’t for any other reason than for your benefit. Like we need to keep the project moving. And in order to do that, and to get it done on time, we need to get the content we need, we need as quickly as we can. And by this deadline, because this is in our schedule. So I love that analogy in that verbiage of saying, you know, if you miss this, it’s your projects just going to be on the side. And it’s going to be, you know, at the bottom of the queue, or we’ll put it in the queue when we get your content because that and it should be that’s, that’s the killer. That’s the killer of so many projects.

James 39:25
Yeah. And I mean, it, they should understand to like, a lot of people are actually quite understanding of that a lot of clients. When you say, look, we’ve got a business to run, we can’t just stop work and wait for you to give us the stuff. So we’ll start work and then we just put it to the side and then when you’re ready, get the stuff to us and we’ll put you back into the queue. Right now there’s six projects in the queue so we can’t promise like all of our deadlines, original deadlines will change. Based on we’ll give you that new date when when you give us all the content, and you can do that very diplomatically and still scare the hell out of them.

Josh 39:59
Yeah, because that’s most clients that’s one of my biggest frequently asked questions is, how long does a project take or website design take? And I usually always say 30 to 45 days, once we get all the content, because that’s when it just it all depends like some clients don’t send content for 30 days. And of course, it’s not going to take 30 days if we don’t get the content. And then there’s been a couple situations in the past where I remember clients didn’t send the thing over. And then two weeks later, they’d reach out and say, hey, how’s the website coming and be like, it looks like a blank page, because that’s you haven’t sent me anything. I didn’t say that to them. But that’s what went through my mind. And I had to let them know, you know, yeah, I just had to say that we can’t, you know, we’re not going to hit the deadline, without us getting content in time. And then they need to understand the most do. Like said most are very understanding that if a client doesn’t send you content for a month, you’re not going to bust that site out in that 45 day deadline. There’s there’s no way so I think that’s really important to have in that clause. Just letting people know is you know, really the way the project is gonna go as far as meeting the deadline is up to you. Like, it’s really as long as you hit our deadlines, we’ll do our end of the bargain, but you got to do yours. And I want to say this because I think it’s a super important statement for you to relay to your clients. And that is that deadlines are good for them. They are necessary because I’m a big fan of deadlines to man, you’re James, you’re a course creator. And you do a lot of like projects that you don’t really like need to do, or you could take as long as you wanted. But I’m sure you’ve experienced this when you trance transition from the agency world. If you give yourself a year to do something, you’ll take a year to do it, you’ll just figure out how to drag it on and make it more difficult. Whereas if you give yourself a self a deadline, you got to get it done. And that’s what’s so good. And there’s a lot of freedom in that too because it’ll make you not overthink things. I actually I just had an episode a few episodes back on episode 50 talking about feedback and revisions and deadlines where really big part of that too, because it forces the client to give you something within that timeframe. Whereas otherwise they could just overthink it. Like if you just tell a client Give me your content, No wonder it takes three weeks and they disappear because they’re overwhelmed. And they’re overthinking and they don’t know what to do.

James 42:18
You can get them to create their own deadlines. Right. That’s, that’s part of the briefing in that project set up in the beginning is when do you want this live? And then you can work back from that. And then it’s like, it’s not like you imposing deadlines on them. It’s their own deadlines. So you’re not going to look like the bad guy. The other part of that you asked two questions about deadlines and reminders. I mean, the reminders part is pretty simple. It’s literally just remind them regularly. You know, and there are plenty of plenty of tools that can help you with that, like any email follow up that I use follow up then, as a, I use this for everything right? This isn’t just for getting content. It’s anything that I need to follow up on people with no, I just send an email to someone like if I was like, Josh, I want you on my podcast. I’m just gonna assume that you’re gonna forget that email.

Josh 43:07
James yeah, I would never forget. I would be honored and thrilled. But yeah, your average your average schmuck who’s gonna forget? Yeah.

James 43:16
I just assume everyone is gonna forget. It’s got nothing to do with the person. It’s got a good way to go.

Josh 43:21
Yeah, yeah.

James 43:23
They’re a human like, and then probably dealing with tons of email and it might get buried, it might get spammed like it, who knows? Just if you’re sending it basically, if I’m sending an email to someone, I use a tool that’s going to bounce that back to me. If they don’t reply, and I like follow up then because it’s like super cheap for the with the response detection or free without it, and it works without any browser extensions or anything. It’s literally just you BCC the address, like seven days of follow up, then calm and it bounces back to me? Love it. But yeah, so I pretty much It’s a shame if I’m sending an email to someone. They’re not going to reply. So I just always BCC something like that. So I get that get that bounce back and it applies to content as well. So you need to make sure you’re on top of your clients. It’s really that simple. There’s various ways, you know, you could, you could have a project management system that’s just automatically sending them a reminder every week.

Josh 44:16
Yeah, we have that with Basecamp. I was gonna say because I know you have that with Content Snare, where it’s like automated, but again, you could do it in a variety of different ways. And I think not only is it good for you as a designer to see something like okay, where are we? Did we have the content or not, but for your clients every once in a while like if they have two weeks to do something, they’re likely going to wait like a few days before they need to do it’s just like anyone with a paper in school or something. You’re always gonna procrastinate more than likely. So even for them like if they get a reminder well in advance, like just a reminder in one week, like Oh, crap, yeah, let me just go ahead and bust that out. Like it’s, it’s a great way to go about it now. That I feel like that’s obviously very common for the first round of content, but what about the ongoing process? Like as content continues in other different levels of reminder? Like, are there reminders for content versus images or what have you seen in the web design agency world? Like, are there different types of reminders that you’ve seen work well, or?

James 45:17
Yeah, that’s really dependent on the agency and what kind of clients you’re working with, you know, whether it’s professional type, you know, super professional kind of messages, or you need you want to go more personal or more aggressive, you know. Like, in Content Snare, for example, one of the examples I use, it’s kind of funny when I’m doing video demos. It’s like, there’s the normal follow ups and then there’s the aggressive follow ups, like he just said, a different schedule, but clients need it. So some people like to separate content into stages, right? So it’s almost like what you were saying before, so stage one might be the homepage, just home page and then it might be you know, about and contact and then it might be services or products, whatever. You know, actually breaking those down into sections, just so at least then you get one thing done at a time and you’ve got the reminders specific to the homepage. You may overlap them. So you start sending the about page request before the home page is done. Yeah, so we’re actually expense experimenting and contents now now we’ve made the percent complete available as a variable for emails, so you can send out the due date is here, and you’re only 50% complete.

That’s what kicked off the momentum for me. – Josh

Josh 46:32
Yeah, so you can even do that manually, though. Even if you just feel like you’re about, you know, three fourths of the way there with their client, just let them know, like, hey, we’ve only probably got about a fourth left. Can you just get us you know, by the end of the weekend, do you think you’d get us this content cuz we’re almost there. Just let them know. And one thing I wanted to say this is big for Content Collection, but also just web design projects in general, particularly because you’re working with different clients and it’s a person to person type of project. It’s really all about momentum. And anytime you can build that momentum, this is big for creativity, like, I always found, when I got going with a website, I would inevitably look at it and just be like, I’ve got nothing. And then I would just push through it. And then I’d feel like it just sucks, then I’d come the next day after sleeping on it and then I’m like, Okay, you know what, this isn’t that bad. Let me tweak this and tweak this. And then all of a sudden, I’ve got a pretty sweet design. And that’s what like kicked off the momentum for me. And then I was able to design the next page and the next page. And the same is true with content I’ve found, particularly for clients, because again, they have no idea what this content is going to turn into if they can see the homepage done, or at least, you know, a really nice design they might be like, wow, that little word doc that I filled out or whatever that had the title and the subheading, and a couple paragraphs. And then they asked, you know, Josh and his team asked me for a bullet list of services like look how they added graphics to these services, that very well may encourage them to get going on the next stuff because they got some momentum. So I think that’s another big thing with deadlines and just for me doing it by phases, just building that momentum, get them getting pumped up, because you’ll likely get content a lot faster that way.

James 48:11
Yeah, I’m glad you mentioned that because this kind of big thing that I’m always encouraging is it’s like that bite sized pieces thing again, but also encouraging them to get a couple of pieces done. Like not saying, We need all your content in one go. One email like homepage, about page everything all in one, go, boom, that’s, that’s all you can do. Now, it’s like, they should be allowed to start on the homepage and do a couple of little bits here and there and, and then come back to it later. That’s where generally forms as a tool kind of fall down because they have to do it all in one goes overwhelming. That’s what actually like if you have documents where they’re allowed to come in like a specific document for them, they’ve got a little box where they can type in. Then they can come back next time and do the next box and do the next box as long as like saving on the fly, obviously Content Snares the same, try to display one thing at a time. As they type it, it’s saved so they can come in and complete more things one at a time, you know, lot. It’s just it’s less overwhelming that way.

Josh 49:14
And that’s the importance of not collecting content through email, or through God forbid text, or something like that, where, you know, they’re digging you like if your client wants to work on Friday nights at 1030, then they can if it’s in Dropbox, or Content Snare, which I’m much more empathetic to that now too, because I realized that clients are doing their businesses all day and some of them have families, and the only time they get to work on their own business might be 1030 on a Friday night or Saturday morning. So like it I used to get mad about that when I hear from clients and then I just realized, I don’t need to look at my email on Friday nights at 1030 they can freakin wait till Monday morning like that. I don’t need you know, I didn’t need to put myself in that 24/7 on call role because that’s really big with collecting content. I’ve stressed myself out so many times unnecessarily by being in that 24/ role where if Yeah, the clients were fine, like they can, you know, they can submit the stuff. I don’t want them texting me, but they can submit the stuff and then I’ll get to it Monday morning when we’re at it.

James 50:18
Then the downside of that is the hundred emails you might have.

Josh 50:22
Yeah, that’s, that’s true. That’s where like having that those guidelines and like, you know, if you look, we’ve got five folders set up for you. You can put your content in there whenever you want, wherever you want, as long as it hits our deadline. And then by the time we log in, there it is. Yeah, that’s getting out of the email thread for sure. Yeah, no, I did want to ask you James like, worst case scenario, we’ve laid out we’ve got the process we we’ve got our expectations, set their expectations set, we’ve got our reminders in place. We’re using Content Snare, we have our own process with Dropbox or Basecamp or Asana, whatever we’re using, but the client still just isn’t provide content. What have you seen in worst case scenarios? Like, is there a point where we just have to stand our ground and charge more or charge a fee? Or just put the project off completely? Or what have you seen in that regard? Like when things just because inevitably, there are some clients who just, for whatever reason, drag their feet completely and it can really, the problem with that, aside from the obvious is for me, I just lose steam on the project. Like, I lose all excitement. If a project goes past a month or two, and we’re still waiting on content. I’m, I’m done. Like I’m mentally done with that project. So have you seen anything like that? What would you suggest that we do when we get into that? Because it’s gonna happen at some point? Yeah. When likely it’s gonna happen.

James 51:45
Yeah, look, um, I mean, the main thing is, like we said before, the whole system where it goes to the back of the queue, and it can just go there indefinitely, even if you’re not excited. Maybe you just play a little bit more hardball if it if it goes on for six months, and then it’s like, no, you’ve got gotta have everything like perfect before we’ll even start on this project again. You know, if they’re still emailing you and carrying on then at some point, you probably need to invoke and charge some kind of fee. Because obviously, if this goes on indefinitely, and you’re still doing little bits of work here and there, even if that’s just responding to emails and saying you haven’t sent us everything, we’re looking through some more crap that they’ve given you, that’s your time. So at some point, you’ll need to charge and some element of that needs to be in your contract book so that you can charge um, reactivation fee.

Josh 52:36
Yeah, everyone has been through my business course has seen what I have in mind, which is basically a clause that states if we haven’t heard from you or waiting on content, it’d be one thing if they just owe us a homepage or you know, an about page or something. Of course, we’re not going to, you know, be that strict but if they’ve just disappeared then at six months, basically what I say is we have the option to charge more for the project. We have an additional percentage that will add if you know, it’s been six months after a year, if we haven’t heard or we’re just, you know, you’ve just disappeared, then we have the option to cancel the project on our end, because after a year, that’s, it’s just and that’s a problem like that it happened to me before years ago. I remember I had clients disappear, and then a year and a half later, they’d come back like, Hey, we want to continue on. I’m like, I don’t even remember what the heck we plan or what we talked about for this project. So that’s got to be in there. It’s, I know, that’s a little bit outside of collecting content.

James 53:30
No no. And it’s a really good thing because it’s a problem that’s associated with collecting content when they drag their feet that much so yeah, like hundred percent totally okay to do that, and, you know, you can have it in your contract. If that happens, you still keep the deposit, you know, and that’s Yeah, just exactly what it is.

Josh 53:47
Yep. Well, hey, man, I know you’re getting close on time. So we’ll get to wrapping up here. I wanted to ask really quickly about tools. Obviously, the obvious is Content Snare we’ve talked about some sort of project management system like Basecamp or Asana, you can collect content there. However, if it’s really complex content or a lot of it, that’s where I’ve seen, like Google Drive or Dropbox be really beneficial. Are there some other tools that you’ve seen or would recommend for people, whether free or premium?

James 54:16
Yeah, so I mean, we have covered most of them. One thing I would say is like, try not to require your clients to login. That’s generally a big problem with project management tools. I know a lot of people come to content snare from like Asana or Basecamp, or whatever, where they’re trying to use almost like a client portal kind of aspect where the client has to remember a password and login. If you’ve got a password on things, it’s generally your clients are going to screw it up. They’ll Forget it, they’ll come to you again, it’s just more friction that you don’t need. So anything that doesn’t require login. So Google Docs can work, but it obviously requires a Google account, and we have had many reports of clients struggling with that which is surprising. You know, like as being you with with you and I should probably shouldn’t say that right?

Josh 55:05
I am not the one to ask that.

James 55:07
Yeah, I don’t care. I prefer to say it the wrong way just for fun to annoy the people that it bothers.

Josh 55:12
But don’t come to Josh and James for grammatical correctness, correct sentences.

James 55:22
Absolutely not.

Josh 55:22
We’re simple folk.

James 55:24
Yep, absolutely. So, um, yeah, so but if you do want to use Google Docs, and that can work with a lot of clients, I found a little trick is to almost emulate forms to just put a one by one table in the form. So in the document, sorry. So then you can have like a heading one which is like homepage or something, all the documents called homepage. A heading one is like this is the header. And then you can have district like descriptions under that, like have some text in the document that is your guidance, you know, how to write a headline or whatever, and then have an actual one by one table that is your like, this is the box you type into don’t type anywhere else. Because if you give them freeform access, they’re going to put crap all over the place. They’re gonna, I mean, they still probably will with Google Docs, they’re going to highlight things and say, put it in red italics and say can you please link this word to the about page or something? It’s the classic problem with Google Docs. But it really helps constrain that it’s a good little trick. One system I’ve seen that works really nice put it in landscape and then have like guidance and images down the left hand side as I say, Sorry, again, a table here. So you’ve got a two column table where the left hand side is instructions and the right hand side is where they’re typing stuff in so then you can kind of see it as you scroll down. Ah, I like that system. But yeah, I mean other tools I mean, there’s forms if you want to, if it’s a small amount of stuff and you think they can get it all done in one go, you know, any forms tool can can help you.

Josh 56:58
Gravity forms or Calderas.

James 56:59
Yeah, the saving continues and those kind of things generally don’t work very well or clients will screw them up. So generally only small amounts of content that they can do in one go. Yeah, uploading things to Google Doc, sorry, Dropbox or Google Drive that can work, any file upload system. If you want to accept Word documents, obviously, you’ve got to deal with versioning problems, then if they send multiple versions of the same thing.

Josh 57:25
Windows versus Mac, there’s always been some fun with that, too.

James 57:28
Yeah, um, what else? I mean that those are the main things other than Content Snare, like there is no other. Pretty much every designer is using some combination of shared folders, a document online documents, shared folders like Dropbox forms, you know, and then content snare is the one we tried to I mean, that’s literally why we built it is because the all those other systems tend to have some kind of drawback. So we built it into one tool.

Josh 57:55
Yeah, that makes total sense, man, this is great. Well, James, man, always great stuff with you always pick up something new. It’s just such gold that you dish out particularly in this subject of collecting content. Because I know you’re so passionate about this because we want to free ourselves up and enjoy our work. And we also want to help our clients. And I think let me just recap so we talked about making it easy for clients good communication, you really got to cover your own butt with having a lot of this stuff mentioned. And the proposal stage and contracts, talked about creating that your own process and utilizing the tools that you want to use. Talking about, you know, how it’s going to go down, setting those expectations, deadlines, reminders, helping our clients, you know, get past all that but then also, again, going back to disclaimers having that in there just in case we have that rare client that does drag their feet. We talked about some tools and yeah, man, I mean, that all leads to a much better web design experience all around and I just have I’m gonna ask you a final thought here. Mine would be just too just let the client know that this isn’t set in stone. Like they don’t need to press it themselves too much with the content because websites can always be updated always be revised like yes let them know this the homepage for now but it’s not particularly if clients are used to doing like billboard ads where they’re locked in for a year with this billboard hopefully it works like with a website we can try this out. You know don’t don’t stress about that’s that’s what I would say to people talking with their clients do you have any kind of final thought?

James 59:29
Yeah, I really I really like that one one caveat on that is I would say that that’s part of the maintenance plan after you launch or like a phase two because if you allow them to update it while you are trying to get the website live that’s like a big no no, because then you end up in these…

Josh 59:45
Exactly, I’m talking like let them know you know, when three months from now if you decide you want to revamp the front page or add you know, more content then we can do that, you know, we can change what we have.

James 59:55
A reason I brought that up is because like it’s literally why we built the approval feature in Content Snare, so I wanted to prove they can’t go and change it on you and say, oh, but that’s the content. No, no, this is what we agreed to. But actually, for my final thoughts, I mean, it’s really, um, just steal two things. You just said, we want to enjoy our work and make our clients happy or help our clients, you know, and that and that’s, the content collection is such a good opportunity to do both. Like good, sorry, backup content collection really can help make you not enjoy your work. It’s like an enjoyable part of you.

Josh 1:00:33
There’s two things, revisions and feedback together and then content collection. Those are like the bane of every web designers.

James 1:00:40
Yes. And and so that’s why content collection can really help you. Like getting a good process together can get rid of that and help you enjoy it work. And the whole like…

Josh 1:00:51
I didn’t mean to cut you off, I think wasn’t in your designer boss presentation where you were like no designer gets into web design because they’re like, I want to wake up and remind people to send me images. Like no one wants to do that they want to design a website. So, like you can spend way more time doing that if you’re not careful with this type of process. Yeah, why this is so important.

James 1:01:10
Yeah. And if you can get that off your plate using some kind of system or process, then you’re going to be so much happier. And the second part is helping your clients and making them happy. So if you can make the process just dead simple for them, it makes you look like an absolute pro. That’s Yeah, like I’m stealing your the things you said as my final thoughts. But it’s perfect. Those two things, man, like, that’s where content collection does, like, that’s where it helps so much. And those two things are really big deals.

Josh 1:01:39
Yeah, that’s awesome, man. Well, James, thanks so much for your time for sharing your ever continued nuggets of wisdom, man, I’ve really enjoyed, you know our relationship over the past few years and I learned something from you every day, man every time we talk.

James 1:01:54
Right back at you man. Thank you so much for having me.

Josh 1:01:56
Great to have you for everyone watching on video James is looking really good nowadays. He’s got his new new camera all set up background man, I missed the drum set. I do miss the electronic drum set.

James 1:02:08
Yeah, it wasn’t, wasn’t a very good background.

Josh 1:02:10
This is like, this is like James this is like professional James 2.0. No more drum set in the background.

James 1:02:16
I know like it was a good conversation started. That’s why I wacked the skateboard there. Hopefully someone talks about that. But you know, the new lens actually blurs the background, so you can’t see anything there anyway, so I don’t know.

Josh 1:02:28
All right, James. Well, hey, man, I know you got to rock and roll. So thanks again. I don’t think this will be the last time we’ll have you on again here soon.

James 1:02:35
Absolutely not. And I’m sure we’ll have you on Agency Highway at one point as well.