There is a bigger demand now more than ever before for web designers. The COVID Pandemic has shown us how important it is for businesses to be online and have a successful website and digital marketing strategy which means the need for businesses to have a trusted web design guy or gal or digital agency, is greater than ever.

Despite this, I’ve still seen many common objections and questions about whether or not web design is truly a career where you can make a good living and they really boil down to 3 main questions which are:

Is web design a variable industry for the long haul?
Do you have to be the exception to be successful being that it’s a saturated market?
Do you have to be lucky to be successful in web design?

These questions were actually posted to me in a recent email from someone who was interested in my courses but wanted to make sure it was a career worth investing in so in this episode, I’ll share my thoughts on each point and explain why yes, you really can make a good living in web design now more than ever before.

In this episode:

01:36 – Featured Review Shoutout
03:37 – Three main questions
11:16 – Oversaturation
19:51 – Building organically
22:51 – Quality over quantity
23:33 – Success
24:39 – Feelings on luck
32:09 – Recap and courses

You can also view the full transcription of this episode below.


Featured links mentioned:

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Josh 0:02
Hey, everybody, welcome into Episode 70. So recently, I got an email from somebody who is now one of my web design students. And shout out to Caleb, who I know listens to the podcast, but he sent me this email. And he asked some really good questions in and around the topic of, can I make really make a living doing web design these days? And he had this as kind of an overarching question, but he had some sub questions that he asked in this email that I thought were really good. And they’re things that I want to address in this podcast episode, because I’ve got a lot of questions similar to these over the past few months particular in the age of the COVID pandemic, and everything. So what I’m gonna do in this episode is kind of break down some of the questions he had in this email to share with you for those of you who are either new in your journey and are hoping this can really work out or maybe a lot of you who are maybe dipping your toe into web design to see if this is something that you can actually do to make a good living and so really excited to dive into this. Now I will say I don’t have a whole lot of notes on this. Generally, when I do a podcast episode, I have a pretty decent amount of notes to follow. I’m going to kind of just riff on this one and talk with you guys to share my thoughts on this subject because I think it’s really really timely and poignant. Before we get into it, though, I do want to give a quick shout out for another feature podcast review. This comes from amber McKee, who is one of my newest star students who’s really doing great with her business. At PikaDesign.co, and Amber, I will link to your website in the show notes for this episode. So just as a reminder, if you guys give me review, make sure you mentioned your website, because I’ll likely mention it here and put it in the show notes for some SEO juice. But amber says inspiring I’m a big fan. I’ve listened to every episode at least once I enjoy josas interviews as well as his solo episodes packed with relevant information. I’m also a student and have taken all of his courses. Josh is well spoken organized and so genuine, he shares his own real life experiences and mistakes. So we don’t have to go through the same headaches. Because of Josh’s quote, unquote, coaching. I was able to organize my website business quickly and it’s growing strong. I’m so grateful. Josh will be offering a membership slash mastermind club soon. I’m looking forward to signing up. Well, thank you so much Amber, for the review. I really, really appreciate it. I’ve loved seeing what you’ve done in your journey so far. And this is just the beginning. And to that last note that amber mentioned there. Yes, I am opening up my membership club very soon. Actually, by the time this is coming out, I have already opened it up to founding members. So if you’re curious about that, you want to know more and you want to maybe potentially test the waters with the first group of people in this amazing community that’s building into get private coaching and in connection directly with me. Just go to Josh hill.co slash membership. And that will take you some more information. Because I’m not officially like doing a big public launch yet. But I am now accepting founding members and oh, it’s awesome. It’s awesome. Guys, I can’t wait to show you what I’ve what I’ve got cooking with that. In any case, thank you so much Amber, really appreciate it. If you guys would do me a favor and leave a review. Wherever you listen, that would be massively appreciated. Now let’s dive into why I think key Yes, you can absolutely make a living doing web design web design these days now, more than ever.

A lot of businesses that didn’t have websites or didn’t prioritize their online, really experience or online presence, are now realizing how important it is to do that.

03:37
So there’s kind of three main questions that were in this email. The first one was, is it really something that you can rely on to make a living? So you could also I’ve been asked that a few different ways. Some people have asked it in the form of like, is it viable? Is that something that’s actually going to last? Like, is it a career that is going to be there for the long term? And I will tell you guys, yes, yes. Yes. And yes, yes to all the above. So I did freelance web design for a long time. And then I grew my freelance solopreneur business into a small team. And now it’s a legit agency. And we actually just October 2020 was the 10 year anniversary for my company InTransit Studios, which I just did an episode recently on with some of my top learnings. But yes, it is absolutely, totally a long longevity type of career. The one thing I love about web design two, apart from many things, is it’s not just building websites that makes it something that’s going to last a long time. It’s everything in and around web design, because web design does evolve. Like when I got into it in 2010. I was building sites with Dreamweaver and doing HTML and custom coding and pretty much everything. I still do some code and love CSS, but now it’s a whole different ballgame with WordPress and themes like Divi and you can do a lot without technically coding. So even though the industry changes, it’s still the heart and soul of it is still, you know, a businesses or somebodies mission online, like what can they do to get digital and now companies are needing to get online and to get their stuff. digitalized digitized, is that the right word, more so than ever. So I say that to say there is no better time than right now to get your web design going web design game going, because COVID has shown us that no matter what happens, people are going to be online. And a lot of businesses that didn’t have websites or didn’t prioritize their online, really experience or online presence, are now realizing how important it is to do that. We’ve had a lot of clients come to my business in my agency, who kind of had like, okay, web design presents, or maybe it was just there. But now they’re taking it very, very seriously, because that’s the only way they’re getting traffic. This is also really huge for anything that’s ecommerce related. So if you’re interested, and the e commerce space and building online stores for sites, even if it’s not something you’ve thought about doing, I would encourage you to seriously think about it because there is no better time than ever for that. And a lot of clients and a lot of people who are doing in person services and B2C like customer kind of stuff, are now forced to get their clients online. So there is no better time than right now businesses have realized through the age of this year of COVID, that you’ve got to be online. And there’s no better time right now for us as web designers to serve this crowd. Because there’s so many people, there’s an influx of people who are dying to get their websites online. And they’re dying, dying for a trusted partner to do that with them, which we’ll talk about here as well. So there’s really no time practically to do it. There’s also no better time, as far as an opportunity for somebody to be a trusted web design person.

07:00
So like I said, there are there are all these companies and businesses now who are pivoting in need to get online, and some people are going to do it themselves. And some people may be savvy enough to figure out Wix or Squarespace. But most businesses, if it’s a serious business owner, they’re going to really value their time more than anything, which means they’re going to hire those services out. And if you can be a trusted web design guy or gal, to just a handful of businesses, that is going to set you up to make a really good living in the long run. Because web designers you’ll find out is something you can do, you can really do one step at a time and build it, you don’t have to kill yourself getting new clients over and over. There’s a lot of different strategies we’ll talk about here for recurrent recurring income, and you can essentially just be a trusted web design person, for just a handful of clients, you really don’t need that many clients. That’s actually another thing that I love about web design is you don’t need to be hustling, selling every day over and over and over. And you don’t need to put yourself in this feast or famine rut where you get a new client, then their projects done, and then you have no money, then you gotta get another client then their projects done, then you have no money. That is a very painful, bad spiral that a lot of industries have. But in web design, there’s these two lovely words called recurring income, which you can build in a variety of different ways, primarily through hosting and maintenance plans, but also through SEO services, and ongoing content services and stuff for web design. There are so many avenues for recurring income I actually have an episode on that I did a while back if you haven’t listened to that episode, that was Episode 40 I would highly encourage you to go check that one out. Because that will give you some really good ideas and inspiration on how to add recurring income in your business. And really the idea of making a living in web design the tough thing about that question is that kind of just depends on where you are in life. So for example, when I was a single dude and I live with my dad, I didn’t need that much money to technically make a living for the you know for the season I was in a lot of people that you make 25,000 to 50,000 then that’s all you need for right then but myself now as a husband and as a dad to two girls living in Columbus, Ohio I need to make well over six figures to make quote unquote make a living now if we want to maintain the lifestyle we live right now which live an exuberant lifestyle but we have a Honda Odyssey van in a Honda Accord car like that’s car payments, we have a nice house that’s a big mortgage payment we take baths and showers and we have a big water bill. You know, there’s there’s a lot more now that I need to make a living. And the really cool thing about web design is I’ve been able to scale my business and my businesses in web design to meet the need where I’m at. And we’ll do an episode eventually on what I call the kid effect. But I will say once I started having kids, that’s when I really started making a lot of money because you just have to value your time and you just have to make more money. So you just figure stuff out. So for those of you who are going to be parents one day, or maybe worried about having kids and getting a lot done, don’t worry, you’ll be amazed at how much you’ll get done when you start having kiddos.

07:11
But in any case, I think a general rule for making a good living living in web design is 100,000. It’s six figures. And and I’m talking about this from a perspective of somebody who’s in the Midwest in the States. If you’re living in different countries, you may not need 100,000 to make a living a really good living. But for my audience, who is mostly in the US and the UK, and Australia, we need to make at least six figures to be quote, unquote, you know, having a good living. So I do actually have an episode about that and a little more practicality. That’s Episode 41. So Episode 40, was on recurring income 41 was on how to practically make 100,000 a year or more in web design. So if you haven’t listened to those, I’d invite you to check those out. Because those will give you some more like practical ideas on how to implement this in your business. But yes, guys, number one, can you make it can you rely on web design to make a good living for you? Abso-freakin-lutely! There’s no better time than right now.

11:08
Now, number two, is another really good question. And he said, more specifically, this was kind of a follow up to the first question. He said more specifically, I’ve heard from other people that being successful in web design is more of an exception to the rule than due to over saturation. Now, that was an interesting question. So there’s kind of two there’s kind of two parts to this. So let’s break this down. Let’s start with the oversaturation, actually, because is web design an oversaturated market? Absolutely. It totally is. How many times have you seen web design companies? There’s DIY builders like Wix and Squarespace and even WordPress and a lot of themes are claiming they’re DIY builders, when they’re really not. You need a professional to set up a website, a WordPress website. Good. So there’s all these different tools in the market itself. You know, how many times have you seen SEO companies, digital marketing agencies come with ads, whether it’s on your Facebook, or you just see it around town or, you know, companies who are being bombarded with that stuff. So yes, it’s totally oversaturated. But here’s the good news, the market still cannot keep up with the oversaturation of providers. And that was a really corporately boring way to say the need of businesses for web designers is still outweighing the actual web designers who are in the market and the agencies who are in the market. Now, there are some agencies who are doing things at bigger scale to where like a digital marketing agency that has 100 people, well, they’re probably built to take on thousands of clients, you as a freelance solo webdesigner are you as just a small team, or maybe a small agency, you don’t need thousands of clients, you don’t want thousands of clients, all you need is a handful of really good clients. And actually, so as a solopreneur, my rule of thumb is that if you get a dozen clients as a solopreneur, then you are well on your way to making a good living, you’re likely not going to make six figures with just 10 to 15 clients, but you’re probably at that point, you should be able to make 15 2025 k with that. And a lot of that can be recurring. Now, if you get a couple dozen clients like 20 to 30, then you’re going to be in the ballpark of making more like 50 to 75,000 per year, if you do what I tell you in all my courses, with how to set your business up and how to set your pricing and what to focus on how to build your recurring income, then you should be in that range. So that should be freeing in itself. Because if you can get to a couple dozen clients, you’re going to be close to getting to that six figures range. Now you can actually you can 100% get to six figures and more with 20 to 30 clients, but you’re going to have to be offering a lot of value, you’re going to have to know a lot more about copy and SEO along with design and development and likely be doing some e commerce stuff. But here’s the kicker. Here’s the really cool thing. As far as oversaturation. Even if you if you want to hit 100 k at least like 100 to 200 k annually, then 50 clients should be more more than enough to do that. I actually think 50 clients, you’d be more like quarter million range as far as like really good clients cuz that’s what my agency is right now we’re on track to do a quarter million. And it’s like, it’s probably like 30, some a clients, another 20, some B clients and then a handful of C’s in there. So it’s it’s really in between the 50 to 75 range of clients that were ongoing taking care of a lot of those came from InTransit because I’ve been building it for a decade. And then Eric, my CEO, when I merged with him, he brought a couple dozen clients as well. So we’ve kind of merged this but we don’t have hundreds and thousands of clients. It’s quarter million ish right now and it’s again 50 to 75. So you can absolutely do this on a practical level without having to build this massive Empire business and I’m hoping that that is encouraging for you. For those those of you who want to travel, or maybe you want to just stay small. I’m actually reading a book right now I’ve got it beside me. Shout out to Amanda Lucas, one of my colleagues, who recommended this, it’s called company of one, why staying small is the next big thing for business. I’m actually just starting this, so I can’t wait to go through this one. And it’s, it’s absolutely true. There’s no better time to make six figures while staying small as a solopreneur. Or with a very small team, which is you and some subcontractors. That’s what I did for years. So I would not worry about oversaturation at all. Because even though something is oversaturated, it doesn’t mean that you can’t make a big dent. And again, you don’t want to be in an industry where you need every person who has that need to come to you. And I’ve told a lot of people that they’re like, Are you worried you’re gonna run out of clients? And I’m like, Well, I only need a couple dozen really good clients to make 100,000 or more. And I don’t like literally I remember, I think it was at a networking event somebody was talking about, like, well, who have you worked with, and they were asking about, like my marketing strategies, and they were surprised that I wasn’t cold calling more. And I wasn’t hustling for clients. And I told them, I was like with web design. First of all projects take 20, 30, 40 hours or more. So I literally don’t have the time to bring on a new client every day. It’s not like a realtor or some of these other realtors because they do a lot of work. But it’s unlikely that a realtor is going to spend 50 to 100 hours on something with one client, it’s going to be in chunks of like a couple hours here a couple hours there. So there’s a lot of industries that don’t understand how long it takes to do web design good, which is why you need to make sure you’re raising your rates and focusing on your really good clients. But the oversaturation thing it doesn’t matter. Like I’m in Columbus, Ohio, I did not want everybody in Columbus, Ohio, who needed a website to come to me, I would not have been able to handle that. So I started networking, and I started making, you know, just small connections one step at a time and it was all referral related. And that’s how my business grew one step at a time one to two leads a week was General for me. So for those of you who are only getting like one call a week, and you’re all bummed, don’t worry about that, just do more with converting those that one lead. You do want to try to get more leads in the beginning for sure. But you’re going to get to a point where you don’t need to hustle as much You don’t need to sell sell, so you can just focus on doing really good work. So don’t worry about the oversaturation thing. That’s that’s really big. That’s a really, really big, you know, hurdle I think that most people kind of trip themselves over when you don’t need to worry about that. Who cares? Who cares if it’s over saturate and there’s a couple of examples I want to finish this thought on as far as oversaturation.

17:42
One is my Divi web designers Facebook group, so when I got into the Divi community, I had no idea how number one big The community was. And number two, how many Facebook groups there were. So this was in the fall of 2016. I was like, You know what, I had joined one other Divi Facebook group, maybe another one. And I was like, I want to have my own group because there were some things I liked about those groups. But there were a lot of rules, it was really strict and rigid. And some of the members just weren’t very nice. So I was like, I’m gonna start my own group that’s built around constructive criticism, criticism and sharing work and just really empowering each other building each other up. Instead of tearing each other down. That was the motto. And I started the Divi web designers Facebook group, well, four years later, actually, yeah, just over four years later, we’re at 22,000 plus. So we’re the second biggest Divi Facebook group out there. And we are blocking still 40 to 50% of all requests that come in. So my group could actually be well over 40,000 right now, but I tried to keep it, you know, quality over quantity. But I say that to say I had no idea how many groups there were, they were actually like, I think 50 or 60 Facebook groups for divvy, but I started it. And by just focusing on the mission of the group, and just being consistent and being helpful in that group. slowly over time, I was able to really create a lot of good engagement. And then Facebook recognized that this Devi webdesigners Facebook group has a lot of people who are really engaged. And guess what happened. My Divi’s group started showing up before any other Devi group when people search that. So it was very similar to my approach to SEO. So this is another example of oversaturation. And an example of you know, me getting into a very oversaturated market and then capitalizing on it. So you can do the same with web design. If you’re in a town where there’s a ton of web designers, who cares, just be the best you the best version of you. You can be work really hard. take it one step at a time and then every client you get make their day and make them a client for life. And you don’t need to get a client or two every day you can get a client or two every month and it will take a lot of stress and pressure off you.

I want you to have that same mindset when it comes to quality, over saturation in the market. Quality over quantity.

19:51
And then finally, one other note on oversaturation. I wanted to mention is my brand here at JoshHall. co what I do as a web design Coach and teacher in podcaster is in a highly competitive and very oversaturated market, there are a ton of people teaching web design, SEO didn’t even didn’t even just like the subsets of Divi and WordPress. And WordPress itself as a huge market, like I’m in a very competitive market. But what I did is my brand is 100% SEO based. And it was through the same approach I did with the Facebook group, I just shared what I knew with my experience. And instead of worrying about being the biggest YouTuber, or the biggest web design course creator, I just focused on one step at a time helping a small group of people. And then it started expanding and expanding and expanding. And now it’s what I do full time. Now it is three years later, like it did take three years to get to this point. But I still once I started doing courses, I still took it to a six figure business in the first year once I started doing courses. And I basically took everything I learned from my agency experience that I told my clients to do, like be consistent, post good stuff on relevant content, know who your demographic is, don’t worry about super advanced SEO stuff, just focus on what you would search for I took all the things that I would give my clients as resources, and I applied them and I built Josh Hall co big time, you know, in less than a couple years. But I say that to say it was in a very oversaturated market. Now, there are people who do things similar to me like one of my good buddies is Darrell Wilson, who has a very popular YouTube channel millions and millions of views hundreds of thousands of subscribers at this point. So he’s getting like big numbers. But that’s kind of what he does. Like he does YouTube videos, he doesn’t do courses, and he doesn’t have like a membership or anything like that. Now if I compare myself to him, it can be a little tricky, because I do have a YouTube channel and I do a lot on there. But my youtube channel right now is fairly modest, particularly compared to that my Youtube channel is I think, 19,000 subscribers right now. And I’m closing in on 2 million views, which is pretty cool. That’s pretty awesome. Don’t get me wrong, but it’s nothing compared to Derek’s channel. So yes, it’s very oversaturated. But what I’ve done is I’ve managed to build a really good six figure business with Josh Hall co here, focusing on the small like, you know, that’s pretty cool numbers. But that’s not huge. And with my courses, the same thing goes for that. So I’m closing in, I actually just crossed over 700 students now, which is amazing and awesome. And that’s, you know, that’s pretty amazing. That’s pretty cool. But I have a lot of competitors, and a lot of Co Op petitions, who have like thousands of students. Now granted, a lot of these people have free courses. So of course I could get you know, 10s of thousands of students in a free type of thing. But these are like actual paid students. So that’s pretty cool. I was able to focus on quality over quantity like I don’t want, I don’t want to display I’ve got 20,000 students, because it’s likely that most of those came through a free course No, my students are actual people who have invested in their future who are serious about web design in their business. And it’s all because I focused on quality over quantity. And I want to I want you to have that same mindset when it comes to quality, or excuse me over saturation in the market quality over quantity.

23:18
And last thing real quick. We talked about the two points initially with his question, which was oversaturation. And then he also talked about B being successful as more of the exception. Let me just hit a quick note on that before we move to this final one. As far as being successful being the exception, that is true in every industry, look at any industry, you can think of the successful people have some different traits than your average people. And I don’t mean to sound mean like that, but it’s just true. Some people are going to be more successful than others, they could have the exact same background, they could do the exact same things. But some people are just going to work hard, it really comes down to working harder, if you apply yourself and if you work harder, you will be more successful and the guy or gal next to you, it’s really all about how successful successful you want to be. It also depends on what success looks like for you. So again, some people need to make at least $100,000 a year because they have a family. If you’re a college student, and you just want to make 20 grand, then you can be very successful at that and web design doing work on the side. So it really you know, I hate to use the term successful because that is very fleeting. And it’s very relative to the situation and somebody who is living in the Philippines could be a very successful web designer and they don’t need to make 100,000. You know, again, the it’s much different with the cost of living there compared to here in the States. So don’t worry about that. I would also say again, you know, yes, there are some web designers and agencies who do really well and some who struggle but that all goes back to work ethic and how much somebody is marketing and innovating their business. It comes down to belief it comes down to are they investing in themselves and investing in the business or are they just stuck in the business. And it also comes down to personality type too, are they somebody who’s worried and fearful and is just very reactive? Or is somebody who’s proactive and actually doing stuff, even during a pandemic like this? So, yes, there’s always exceptions, compared to averages of people, but that’s in every industry. Look at, like, look at hockey, I love hockey. So how many people who play hockey make it to the NHL, not that many. It’s the people who work really hard and have some talent they capitalize on. And it’s people who commit to doing it full time, and don’t want to just have assets. So the same is true in business, definitely in web design. But don’t worry, don’t worry about that. Don’t worry about that at all.

24:39
And then finally, let me just hit on this third question really quick, because I thought it was really interesting. And I’ve heard a lot of people ask something similar to this. And that is, do I need to get lucky? And here are my thoughts on luck. I personally do not believe in luck. I think luck is kind of bullshit. I think it’s a crutch for a lot of people. And I personally despise when people who are in a successful type of position say I was lucky. Now, that said, I think there are lucky breaks. And I think there are, you know, semblances of luck that can happen. You might meet somebody at a networking event, it was like, Oh, that was a lucky chance, like this person is really, you know, this is somebody who really might be a good fit for me, it really might open the door. I’ve had some lucky breaks over the years. But here’s the thing. Right now, like I’ve had people in and around my personal/professional network, who have said, like, Oh, you’re so lucky to work from home. And so lucky to be making a good living doing what you’re doing. Let me tell you something, there is zero luck in what I’m doing right now. I’ve worked my ass off to get here. And it kind of makes me mad because it kind of diminishes the term luck diminishes the amount of hard work that you’ve done in your career. So imagine, imagine you work your butt off for 10 years doing something, and you’re making a good living, and somebody says, Wow, you’re so lucky. Well, I guarantee you’re not going to say yeah, sure am. I’m lucky. No, you worked your freakin butt off to get there. So I don’t mean to get all heated up. But I definitely I want to be careful about this term luck, because luck is. Again, there are lucky breaks, you might have some lucky breaks. But it no matter where you are in the world, no matter what situation you are in, you are going to get some lucky breaks. But here’s the thing, it’s up to you to capitalize on that. So nobody gets super successful off of luck, unless they just happen to like win the lottery. But would you consider a lottery winner successful I wouldn’t. And most people who do win the lottery don’t do very well. So if you are, if you are successful, in any sense of the word, professionally, financially, with a family or whatever, it all has to do with your work ethic, and what you do in and around those lucky opportunities. And what I wanted to mention with this is that, so let’s say you do get a lucky opportunity. Yep. And meet somebody that is a really good fit. Well, if you do a really good job, and it works, and they end up being a great referral source for you, and you end up making thousands of dollars in the long run. Because of that, it could be very easy to say, wow, I was lucky that this happened. But the fact is, that lucky break would not have happened if you didn’t pull through. So a lot of people get lucky breaks. And then they screw it up. If you get really lucky break, and then you don’t show up on the meeting and the time, on time. You aren’t, you know, professional, you haven’t done your homework, and maybe you just haven’t invested in yourself to know enough to do a really good job, then that lucky break could have gone south and then well, then you got bad luck right there. So you see where I’m going with this. You don’t need, quote unquote, luck, to get ahead and to be successful. You need to make yourself successful, and you just need to work hard. You need to be smart about as many decisions as you can in business and in life. So don’t rely on this crutch of luck. Anyone who is in a position of authority or success hat did not get lucky. They work their freakin butt off and they capitalize on those lucky breaks. That’s the big thing. Now, it does. I was just gonna I was just thinking because I remember some some people I’ve looked up to have said like I you know, I’m not being enough to feel I’m lucky, or I’m not ready enough to feel like I’ve done it myself. I feel very lucky. And I just don’t agree with that. I don’t agree with that at all. I think lucky breaks come but you have to capitalize on them. Because there are a lot of situations where like one hit wonders might get a lucky break. But then you never hear from them again. Just think about how many bands and artists you’ve heard that have like one big song, and then they disappear. And then five years later, they’re not a band or they broke up or whatever that so what did they get? You know, did they get lucky with that one opportunity. Maybe Maybe they met like a record producer or somebody like that who got them in the door and then they had one big hit. But if the rest of their music suck and they weren’t consistent, and they didn’t work really hard, then they’re going to fail. So I wouldn’t consider them lucky at all, like they had a shot, you know, they had a lucky break, but they didn’t capitalize on it. And that’s why nobody would say, you know, man, you’re lucky to be successful in this because they didn’t capitalize on the lucky opportunity. So little soapbox there. But I say all that to say, I don’t think luck is a thing. And I think again, you get that breaks, but you got to capitalize on those. So don’t get hung up on that don’t feel like you need to be lucky to be successful.

30:28
The truth is to be successful, it comes down to three things know, like, and trust clients, are people, businesses are people, and they need to know you, like you and trust you, in order to feel comfortable with working with you. And if you want to know more about how to be likable and trustworthy, and how to be known. I do have an episode on that as well. It’s Episode 52. If you want to reference back to that, so So there you go, guys, those are my thoughts for these kind of three big questions. So shout out to Caleb for sending that over. And Caleb, I’m really excited to help you. Because I know you’re in all my courses now. So we’re working through his journey early on, but I just wanted to mention that because I thought he had some great questions.

32:09
Number one was, really is something is web design is something you can rely on to make a living. Number two, do you have to do or excuse me? Number two is being successful is more the exception, because it’s very oversaturated. But you heard my thoughts on that. And then number three, do you need to get lucky? No, no to that one, for sure. And that all kind of goes back to? Can you really make a living right now? and web design apps? freaking literally? Yes, you can. And for those of you who are like Caleb, who might be interested in working with me more directly, and maybe you’re interested in some of my courses? I would love to answer any questions you have about that. And to top this off, he actually in the same email, he had a final question, which was, do all of your courses everything cover everything I need to know. And I will say I do have you didn’t know, I have a course bundle that has my nine, current suite of web design courses. And yes, that covers pretty much everything you need to know, for making a successful web design business, from the technical side of things into the business side of things. And I do have a post that overviews all of my courses, which I’ll link to as well, if you want to get a feel for what I offer. Because Yeah, there’s of course, web design is a really advanced complex industry. So we can dive into the weeds on certain topics. But that will pretty much cover everything you need to know to build your business. And a lot of my students are building their businesses to six figures or more right now. So if you have any questions on that, let me know I would love to help you in your journey as well here is to making good living doing web design particularly, and the age of this pandemic. And man, I’m excited for you guys. I want to help you. And if you have any questions, let me know the other aspect to this too, before we wrap up, is the nine courses I offer right now really do cover a lot of the practical things and a lot of subjects in particular like Divi and WordPress or like a maintenance plan, like the business side of things like cPanel, like CSS, but there’s a lot of things and questions that you might have in and around these topics. And that’s one reason I am launching my membership, which is actually like I mentioned open right now for founding members. So if you are curious about that, I just want to remind you go to Josh Hall co/ membership and you’ll have an opportunity to be a founding member and I will coach you directly one on one there. Have a private chat ongoing so I can answer your questions and help guide you. But without further ado, guys are to wrap this up. I just wanted to say yes, the answer is yes, you can make a living doing web design. I want you to do it right now. Cheers on this one. I’ll see you guys on the next episode.