%#*@ happens. We’ve all heard the phrase and that expletive, or whatever word you’d like to put in there, could be anything in life that catches us by surprise, rocks our world and prevents us from doing our work for a period of time. This can create a big obstacle but as you’ll find out in this interview, we can often use obstacles as opportunities.

Web designer and agency owner Leo Rees-Evans just recently had a traumatic life experience that has caused him to reevaluate his priorities and change his mindset of how he runs his business for the good of both his health and his family. In this episode, you’ll hear about what Leo just recently went through (and is still rebounding from) and how he’s using that experience (obstacle) as an opportunity for bettering his business and life.

For those of you who have had a life-changing experience like Leo has or like I did (when my daughter was in the NICU for 56 days), you’ll be inspired and encouraged with how to learn from it. And for those who maybe haven’t been through something life-changing yet, it’ll be a great chance to think and perhaps prepare for any number of things that life can throw at you.

If this one resonates, inspires or encourages you, please leave a comment on the post and I’ll make sure Leo sees it. I can’t wait to hear how this one helps you out!

In this episode:

05:04 – Greeting to Leo
07:48 – Leo’s story
12:44 – Being individual
16:03 – Perspective
18:26 – Family productivity
25:50 – Changing mindset
27:44 – Bringing value
30:14 – Learning experiences
32:33 – Out of comfort zone
38:29 – Getting lead generation
40:25 – Working with uncertainty
41:19 – Scaling & raising rates
47:46 – Preparation year
51:09 – Healthy balance
59:59 – Don’t get overwhelmed
1:06:07 – Leo’s contact info

You can also view the full transcription of this episode below.

Leo’s mini e-book that he just wrote and is giving away for free (a 30 page pdf) called ‘Identifying Your Customer Personas: A step By Step Guide’ at Straight Up Websites


Connect with Leo:

Featured links mentioned:

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"Josh’s Web Design Business Course has been such a blessing as I transition from graphic design to web design. This info would have taken me YEARS to gather on my own. It has also given me the most important thing I need to get started working with clients – confidence. Josh is a natural at teaching – he explains everything in an easy to understand way, and makes learning enjoyable. I’m so glad I decided to take this course, it truly is the best investment I could have made as I start my web design business.”

Patty S.

“The course is exactly what I have come to expect from Josh – and more. Great content, patient and thorough approach – and no stone is left unturned. Josh will instruct you on everything you’d want to know and also will go over topics you never even thought of. He’s been there and made the mistakes (now you don’t have to) and had the successes (and now you can, too). This course is a MUST for anyone who wants to get serious about making web design into an actual business. Highly recommended!”

Mike H.

Full Transcription

Josh 0:16
Hey, everybody, welcome into Episode 98. And I have got a very, very cool episode for you in this one guys. This is actually one that I was going to release a little later. But I decided to to get this one out here pretty quickly after we recorded it, mainly because this is a timely topic, I guess, at any point, but I just think it’s super relevant. Because we’re going to be talking with somebody who is a student of mine and somebody who I’ve seen take tremendous strides in his business over the past year. And as you’ll hear in this interview, he’s had a lot of mindset shifts that have really helped catapult his business in less than a year. As you’ll hear in this episode, he was actually charging less than 500 bucks on average for websites. And now he’s charging 1000s of dollars on average. So we talked about that. But more importantly, we talk about a really important topic, and that is using obstacles for opportunity. And sounds kind of weird, sounds a little, you know, wishy washy, or maybe something that you’d see in like Success Magazine or something. But it’s a really important topic, because in life stuff happens and my guest in this interview, Leo Rees-Evans, who again is an awesome web design student of mine, who’s killing it with his web design business, has recently gone through something pretty traumatic.

Josh 1:47
He actually, he, as you’ll hear, in this episode, he has suffered with epilepsy. And he had an episode recently where he had a pretty bad seizure. And it was very serious. And it left him thinking a lot about his life and his business. And you’re gonna hear in this episode, a little bit of that story and how he’s looking at life and his business differently since just recently having that episode. And I just want to say, hats off to Leo, for coming on and for being open about this and transparent. We talked about this, but I just feel like a lot of entrepreneurial podcasts and shows tend to keep stuff pretty surfacey. And we hadn’t planned on actually talking about this topic, but I could tell he was so passionate about sharing what he’s learned and what he is continuing to learn as he goes through this. And I just think it’s super relevant. Because as we all know, stuff happens in life. And sometimes, big things that happen in life really make you really reevaluate your business. And for me, a lot of you know, I, my first daughter when she was born, we spent 56 days, and the newborn intensive care. And that experience really reshaped my mind about how I view work and business and providing for my family. And this is exactly what Leo is going through right now as well. So you’re gonna find so much value from this episode, for those of you who just want to be inspired, if you’ve gone through something, or you are looking for some encouragement, I think this is really going to help you. I also think for those of you who haven’t yet gone through something, this is going to give you some good things to think about and help you prepare for when inevitably, there’s a time where you might not be able to work for a little while. Whether it’s something health related, like Leo went through or whether it was something like I went through with my daughter, or maybe you break your arm and you can’t work for a month. And there’s a lot of reasons that you want to have some encouragement to help you get through that. And this episode is really going to help you.

Josh 3:08
Now before we dive in. One thing that Leo talks about detail throughout this episode is he had went through my business course. And that was one of the things that helped catapult him from charging an average of 500 or less to several 1000 or more for his website designs. And if that’s you, if you feel like you’re finding yourself not having the confidence to charge enough for your web design services, I want to help you with that. And I want to help you raise your average for all of your websites to be several 1000 at the starting point. And we can do that through my web design business course. It’s helped hundreds of web designers all over the world. It’s just been an absolute joy to see some success stories for folks like Leo and others who have learned and implemented what they’ve learned into their businesses. And I want to help you get there as well. And the really cool thing is you can no matter where you are in the world, no matter where you are in your business, you can absolutely charge a minimum of two to $3,000 for your website. So join the course today if you’d like to know more about that, and you’d like to see my proven path for running and scaling a web design business. And again, without further ado, here is my man Leo. Thanks to him for being so open and transparent. And I can’t wait to hear how this episode helps you out. Let’s dive in.

Josh 5:04
Leo, welcome to the show, man, we were gonna have a different one here, because we had a whole different topic in mind. And you and I got to talk and before went live, and we’re gonna switch it up, we’re gonna talk about something you are literally in the middle of which I think is super valuable and that is going from or taking obstacles and turning them into opportunities. So let’s dive into that. But before we do, man, do you want to let everybody know where you’re based out of and what you do with your web design business?

Leo 5:34
Yeah, brilliant. Thanks for having me on, Josh. It’s really a pleasure to be here. I’ve listened to so many of your podcasts now. It’s kind of a bit of a dream to be here and and then live with with your fans. I live in Scotland. It’s not just Scotland, though, on the Isle of Lewis. These little islands just off the side of Scotland. I moved up here with my family just over a year ago. And I started my web design business pretty much on an island in the middle of nowhere. So this is going to be an interesting talk. Because I haven’t started up in a city, I’ve had to do generate all my leads to know my clients from an island in the middle of nowhere. So yeah.

Josh 6:17
Well, you have surprisingly good Wi Fi too. So that’s pretty cool.

Leo 6:22
That’s one of the benefits.

Leo 6:23
Yeah. Well, I know what intertwined a lot of that because I’ve seen you, you know, really the past year, I think I think it’s about a year ago that you kind of came through some of my podcasts and then got involved with some of my courses. And I saw you on my Facebook on almost every posts, and then I started recognizing your name. And then we started conversing. And then you know, to have you through through my courses. And then to see you take your business to just a whole nother level within a year is super impressive, man. So just right out of the gate, you should be super proud of what you’ve done. And like you mentioned,

Leo 6:56
Thanks, Josh,

Josh 6:56
You’re not in front of you’re not in the middle of a big city, I feel very fortunate to be in Columbus, Ohio, where business is booming. There’s a lot of startup, there’s all kinds of stuff going on here. You did a really good job with building your client base virtually and remotely and a lot of ways so I’m sure we’ll we’ll factor into that here. But we we decided to shift our conversation here, because you just went through a traumatic experience. And for anybody watching this on YouTube, you’ve got a pretty nasty scar above your eye. It’s still kind of puffy. We were originally supposed to talk what was that a couple weeks ago. And if you’re cool with just sharing, I mean, your wife emailed me just a few hours before we were supposed to talk and she’s like, hey, Leo had a had an incident and we got to reschedule. Do you want to just shed some light on what happened? And then maybe we can talk about what you’re going through right now literally right now is reshaping your mind from a business perspective.

Leo 7:48
Absolutely. And and what I’m about to share, I really hope is gonna help a lot of you out there that maybe don’t have a head start and maybe are going through similar situations in different ways. This scar on my eye here is from an epileptic seizure that I had, just two weeks ago, it was actually the the day that I was going to come on this podcast. And it was really early in the morning. And I woke up in a pool of blood. And it was for the first time in two and a half years that I’d had a seizure. And I thought I was kind of over this illness by now. And on a good amount of medication. And my mindset completely changed. I’m starting to enjoy life without the illness. And it just shows you that you just don’t know what’s around the corner. And there’s many obstacles that can come our way.

Josh 8:44
Yeah. So we were talking before went live. First of all, thank you, man for being transparent and being open to talk about this. And you just said I think it’s, you know, sometimes I think a lot of business podcasts and authorities stray away from like real life, stuff that happens if you want to focus on business and numbers and growth. But we got to look, life happens. And I think it’s really valuable to hear how somebody’s getting through, gets through. And is that you mean you’re you’re in it, you’re still getting through this. So you had an episode. I don’t know too much about epilepsy at all. One thing that was interesting that we were talking about what I asked you before we went live was what are you know, is it triggered by something and you had mentioned? It’s very likely because of some some stuff that you are implementing in your life with with diet and a new routine. Do you want to dive into that? But we don’t know. Obviously we’re not doctors, we don’t know for sure. But it certainly all signs point to some some drastic changes could potentially have triggered that. And then maybe we can talk about, you know how that’s how that’s affected your mind with your business. And we think about it yeah. What what kind of led up to this happening just a couple of weeks ago.

I think as entrepreneurs with the struggle of climbing up the the entrepreneur mountain, we can kind of dive a bit too much into, we can kind of see ourselves as machines, and we lose the personality and that we’re all different. – Leo

Leo 9:54
Yeah, sure, Josh? Well, I I think as entrepreneurs and With the struggle of climbing up the the entrepreneur mountain, we can kind of dive a bit too much into, we can kind of see ourselves as machines, and we lose the the personality and that we’re all different. And we see the success stories on social media. And we listened to the audiobooks. And we, you know, we want success, and we see the success. And we want that. And that’s a great thing in and of itself. But I think sometimes while I know myself, you can kind of forget that we are different. And that success can drive us to do things that maybe we shouldn’t be doing. And in this case, I heard online that there was this diet where you know, a few you go on this diet is called the carnivore diet, and you’ll get lots of energy, you’ll be able to work harder for longer hours, and you’ll be higher performance. And it was really appealing to me, and I thought it’s 30 days, I’ll try it. I’m actually on a high dose of Epilim for my epilepsy. And that’s been controlling my epilepsy for two and a half years now. The last time I had had a seizure, I’ve had epilepsy since I was 15. And I’ve never really had to worry about my diet, because I never went to extreme on it. But I thought this was going to make me be able to work longer hours, sleep better nights and I implemented a morning routine with it as well. And just went and took this advice from this audiobook, and didn’t think of my illness, thought, you know, I haven’t got epilepsy anymore. It’s completely controlled. And I went ahead and I just ate three eggs in the morning, and a steak at night. And I did that for I was coming to the end actually, I think it was on like the 22nd day, and 22nd days of just 22 days of just steak and eggs. You’ll notice that something that’s lacking in that diet is salt. Well, I didn’t actually know that I needed to have more salt with my epilepsy tablets. And I didn’t take that into consideration at all. I was just thinking, you know, this is, and it was, it was really good. It did work for me, in the way that it made me feel really great every day, I cut carbs and sugar out of my diet completely. And all of a sudden, the two weeks ago, I wake up in a pool of blood. And I’m left questioning what’s happened. Yeah, I thought the stillness had gone. And I think it was, you know, a lack of thought about that we’re all different. And actually, what my message is really here with with this part of it really is I know that all of us as entrepreneurs are listening to lots of audiobooks, and we’re looking at all the success stories on social media. But we have to remember, we’re all individual. And we have to take that into consideration. And it’s really important that we take care of ourselves, and don’t jump in and do what the Joneses are doing. Because we think it’s going to bring the same success because we’re all so different. And we need to find our own way. And we need to bring our illnesses, our problems or obstacles in life, and see how we can turn them into opportunities. Not the way that the Joneses are doing.

Leo 13:36
What a great point, Leo, I mean, that is well said it’s so true. Like I kind of think about that for myself, as a coach now and authority in the web design world is I don’t necessarily want everybody to do exactly what I’ve done. Even though, you know, you got the same mic as I got because I recommended it that stuff’s cool. But when it comes to like, you know, like a diet or something, you even implemented a new morning routine where you getting up super early and you have a family if you have little ones. I mean, there’s a lot of changes going on. And what worked for some people would that didn’t have your condition. So that was a really great point that just because it works for somebody, maybe you can take some encouragement and inspiration from that. But it doesn’t mean that you should necessarily do the exact same thing because like you said, You are a different person. We’re all different people, we have to we we don’t have to do exactly what somebody else did. I think that’s a really valuable thought on every level in life and in business. Because you know, this diet that I’ve heard, I’ve heard a lot of people talk about it. And it’s intriguing, but I told you before went live as well. I’ve personally realized I just have to listen to my body and my self what’s going to work and I know you’re in the middle of that right now, you know, with you know, whether it’s diet changes or scheduling or whatever it looks like you have to work around your life and I really, when I became a father, I’m sure you can relate to this, you kind of feel like you’re a step behind other entrepreneurs who don’t have a family because Sure, they can get up early and work, and everything. And then, and then I realized, you know, like, first of all, I felt like if I was hanging out with my girls, I felt like I should have been working. And then it dawned on me, you know what, I don’t want to miss these years. I don’t want to miss these opportunities. I’m not that entrepreneur who doesn’t have a family and is living by the beach and is you know, doing that’s not my life. But and that’s alright, like, I, that’d be cool. I want to go to the beach. But we’ll do it on a vacation like I live in Columbus, Ohio. It’s snowing right now. And I’m gonna play with my girls in the morning instead of clocking in super early. So yeah, there’s just there’s those elements. I say all that to say, hopefully, this is some encouragement that just because you are in your own situation, it doesn’t mean that you have to be exactly like another entrepreneur who is look looking like they’re quote, unquote, crushing it. And it sounds like you’re going through that right now right Leo? I would really be careful of what you’re taking in and what you’re applying Is that fair to say?

Leo 16:03
It’s a great point. And I think it just reminds us as well, that we’re always learning in so many different ways. You know, what you said about the family side of things? That can there’s, there’s a perspective of that, and I’ve actually learned a new perspective on that, it’s actually pretty much Well, it’s why I have followed you for the past, however long, I’ve followed you a couple of years. And it’s why I’ve actually got my business off the ground so fast, is because it’s actually turned into an opportunity, that obstacle which these young, rich successful people may see as an obstacle to have a family and they want to get rich first. Well, actually, that can be our biggest opportunity. Depends how we look at it. Because when we’ve got kiddies, you know, this, Josh, you know, there’s more than we’ve got the risk of not being able to provide for those kiddies. And it becomes more enjoyable working, knowing that that work that we’re putting our heart into, is what’s feeding our kids that are growing up. And it kind of pushes us to work in a different way. I’ve seen it as a huge opportunity. And when I really got serious about all this business, was when I started having a family. And that was in 2018 when I had my first child, and I’ve now got my third child on the way, and I’m feeling even more pushed, because he’s due in April. And we can’t mess around, we’ve got to, we’ve got to do this, we’ve got to invest in ourselves. We’ve got to take this business seriously. And for four years, I was messing around freelancing, making websites, and I never invested in any courses. I never invested in any education for myself. I was only actually when I got married. And I thought from this whole business perspective, that I started investing in courses and educate myself. And that was how I got to be more valuable and and to up my prices. And when things really start going. Well, Josh, so.

Josh 18:11
Well said, Man, that’s, that’s a perfect example of this topic of turning an obstacle into an opportunity, which is sounds kind of weird to, you know, say your kids and family are obstacles, but that’s how I thought before I became a parent, I was like, how am I gonna…

Leo 18:25
I’ve heard it described as that?

Leo 18:26
Yeah, it’s like, you know, you feel like how am I going to get so much done? Or how am I going to work as much as I am now, when I have kids, and whenever one finds out is when you have kids, the kid effect is real, that’s when you really start making money because it just, it gives you this drive. That is you can’t find until you have like you have the responsibility of that person. I never felt daunted or overwhelmed of anything. I just felt encouraged because like you said, Yeah, the there’s much more meaning to it. Because let’s be honest, if you’re you know, I mean, everyone’s life is different. I know we I have a lot of students who are single and just want to have their own business or travel. And that’s cool, too. Just speaking from a as a parent, though, it definitely adds a whole nother level of meaning and kind of gumption into your business because you’re just you’re gonna It doesn’t mean that you’re gonna be cutthroat and, you know, a slimy business person, but you are going to be more confident, you’re going to be more assertive, and you’re just going to get stuff done. Whereas you don’t have that, that push behind you. And there’s a lot of different pushes and pulls in life. But yeah, the kid, the kid in the family thing is is is a big thing where I want to encourage particularly people who are not parents yet and they’re like terrified of becoming parents and staying productive. Leo and I are both examples of two dudes who started crushing it really when we had families because I was the same way. I mean, I was making a good living before we had kids but once we had our first that’s when things really turned around and that’s when I got same here I got I dove into more courses I I realized that my time was more important than anything so I saved same mentality that you had Leah, which is why I was so pumped to have you come to my courses is, you realize whatever is gonna get you from point A to point B faster. That’s what you need to do. And that’s what’s worth your time. So I love that mindset.

Leo 20:12
It’s an investment. Yes, yeah.

Josh 20:13
Not a cost. It’s an investment you, you like practically you took your business from, you know, you were doing websites for for like, around 500 bucks. And originally we were going to talk about that maybe we’ll do another podcast soon about that. Because now you’re charging, you know, 1000s of dollars for your sites. What are you before, before we dive into, because I want to talk about where your mindset is, after having this, this seizure, but practically for your business? What are some of the things that just while we’re on the subject have helped you basically 10 x your prices? I mean, you told me last month before you were you landed a $5,000 project, that was probably unfathomable a year ago, right. I mean, what are some of the things you’ve done to help get your business to this point that maybe we can transition to, to even more so how the seizure is making it, rethink how you’re going to run the business?

Leo 21:05
Great question. I’m not going to say it’s been it’s been an easy ride. It’s had a lot of prayer. I’m a Christian, I believe, the Lord Jesus Christ has a big, he has the influence over anything, everything that happens, and he leads us to the right people at the right time if we depend upon him. And yeah, well, going from $500. So I suppose what pushed me and how I really, when I first invested in your course, Josh, what pushed me was not so much the the money and realizing I hadn’t, for one, I hadn’t worked out the figures. And I hadn’t worked out how long it took me to make a website, and how much I was charging. And was that sustainable for the next five years? I hadn’t thought about anything like that. I didn’t have the business mindset. I hadn’t adopted that yet. I was just seeing, as you know, I love designing. I’m getting 500 bucks. This is great. And when I came to your course, I just gone through a major scope creep. Wow. That’s right. That’s right. It was horrible. You know, these. And scope creep is, is such a horrible situation to be in as a web designer, that will make you…

Josh 22:25
That will make you think about your work, or make you think about business as soon as you get into a terrible scope creep situation for sure.

Leo 22:32
And that was a huge obstacle at the time. And again, you know, you know, going with the name of the show, turning obstacles into opportunities. That was my biggest opportunity in February project kept going, you know, okay, and it was just about the figures, and I was just kind of making it, then maybe I wouldn’t have got onto Joshua’s course, it’s good when most people got into Joshua’s course courses. I’ve been in the community for a while not most of them, I’ve noticed come to the the monthly maintenance plan course first. Well, I came to the web design business course first. And you know, I’m not just saying this, because I’m on Josh’s show. But it actually completely changed everything. Like it made me think, what do I got to lose? When I came to the module, I think it was just like the second module. And Josh said, loud and clear. Go to your website, change up your prices. And it was like, add up your prices right now. And I literally took it, I stopped the video, I went to my website, and I changed my prices. And then I quickly realized, am I worth this? And it made me It forced me to be worth that. You know, whatever I upped it to I can’t remember. I think it was around three grand I upped it from I think it was at 800 100 around there. And then I was selling them for cheaper just to get the deal. And then I upped it to three grand and I thought what do I got to lose? And immediately I started my mindset started changing when I checked up the prices. I started thinking how can I add more value? Am I worth this and we’re going to be worth three grand and what I feel happy, comfortable charging business 3000 at this point, I hadn’t thought about the return that they were going to be making on the website that that they were investing in. I hadn’t even thought thought past that I was just a web designer. As I said it didn’t have that business mindset. And I upped my prices and I started just doing some organic outreach on LinkedIn just with some locals you know I live on an island in the middle of nowhere the capacity of the population here is 20,000 just on the whole island so you know it’s it’s really hard to find. I didn’t think I’d find any deals on the on the island you sort of have to go to Edinburgh. What are the main cities I just sent some messages out to business people that were high up in tourism, and things on LinkedIn. And they one was a lead to my website. So my website at 3000. And this must have been three weeks after Josh that I changed up my prices. And, and he said, I want to meet you for a coffee. And this was at the beginning of lockdown as well. I want to meet you for a coffee, can you come into town? And I just thought, Well, yeah, I’ll come in, I can’t came in we met and we had our socially distanced conversation about. And I was reading your sales tips on the way I literally was going into this situation. This is the first time I had my eyes open to how valuable my services were. I thought someone’s willing to pay 3000. And I close the deal. The project went really, really nicely. He’s a real a client, you know, he’s on my maintenance plan. Now he’s brilliant guy. And the project went so smoothly, and he didn’t, he wasn’t chasing up. He wasn’t lacking trust in my design, which I’d had with all these people who wanted to pay, you know, they’re just out to get a bargain. And they didn’t do a web design, his time and his work and the amount that he’s, you know, the sleepless nights that he’s had, and all that he’s put in to get to where he is to design these websites. He just wanted a website that did did this job book, Tim gotten direct bookings. Yeah. And, and I created this website, and that was the best website I’d ever created. And that was not a coincidence. That was because I knew I had to up my game. And taking that step that Josh and it was the second part of the it was just on the second module, it’s very early and wasn’t a draft.

Josh 26:56
Yeah, the pricing was pretty early on. Yeah, the challenge

Leo 26:59
of getting clients Yeah. And, and it was very early. And I thought, well, if I’ve closed, you know, it was this was the rest of this business course gonna do to my company. So it was brilliant. It’s really exciting. And that was really where my, and I was, like, I’m never charging that little for a website. Again, I’m just gonna add as much more as much value as I can now to my services so that I’m comfortable to charge, charge that and from then on, it’s been, it’s been upwards, I’ve not been thinking about, I’ve not been desperate to close a deal, because I actually value my services as soon as somebody pays. And I’ll say to your audience, Josh, that have a reevaluation of the prices that you’re charging. And think about the value that you’re bringing to when you when you’re making the website for that client? What value is that bringing them and when you start thinking down that, that journey, that one set of the value of the website and what it’s bringing it and the investment rather than the cost that is for them, you’ll quickly up your rates. And you’ll you’ll realize, you know, that actually websites are worth a lot of money. If if they’re even getting a return on their investment in the first six months, then that’s, you know, that’s an amazing thing. Yeah,

Josh 28:15
yeah. I mean, you figure if a business, let’s say, depending on the business model, let’s say, you know, a customer is worth 500 bucks, and they spend 2500. Well, your website only needs to convert five people. And then they made their investment back and then it’s all profit from their, you know, barring website maintenance and ongoing work. So that’s Yeah, it’s a good good practical thought.

Leo 28:37
And the websites that we build with WordPress, and with Divi, it’s an asset. You know, it’s not like Wix, or Squarespace, all of these pop up, that you don’t even own. This is an asset for your company. And, you know, being being a web designer myself, I would say it’s one of your most valuable assets. This is the the drive in Salesforce for your team. And if you use this property, you can scale it up as as big as your business is going to grow. Your website will scale with it. Yeah. As long as you’ve got somebody maintaining it constantly. And doing those updates each month, keeping up with the trends and building in new pages. You know, this can get as big as you want it to again, and for me, that’s a valuable business asset.

Josh 29:18
Oh, that’s awesome. Yeah. I love man. Dude, Leah, that’s so great to hear, man. Oh, gosh. I just love here. And I mean, you know what, we’ve talked about this before. You and I have had a lot of correspondence over the past couple of years here. I wouldn’t you get to the business course. Was that 19 or no, that was 20. It was early. No,

Leo 29:36
it’s beginning of lockdown. Yeah, right.

What a very practical story about how just those little shifts with pricing and value really put you on a whole new trajectory. – Josh

Josh 29:40
Yeah, yeah. That sounds about right. So it’s been it’s been almost a year. A lot of great points you said there and I want to shift to where your business is headed. And again, how this life changing event is shifting your focus towards scaling into building something that’s, you know, going to support you and your family but a couple points I wanted to hit on there. I love the The great that you made about if you do something and you’re kind of comfortable and things are going, Okay, that can actually be a bad thing, because that’s how I felt early, I was doing websites, I didn’t have too many terrible experiences. So and I got pretty good at doing all wearing all the hats and doing everything. So I scaled it a lot slower pace, and I didn’t raise my rates for a very long time, because I didn’t have anyone pushing me Were you really you got that situation where you had some terrible scope creep, which was your obstacle, but, you know, hats off to you, man for, for overcoming that and making that opportunity because you didn’t let that discourage you didn’t stop doing web design, you learn from it, which is key. And I’m so man, it’s like what a What an honor for me to hear how the business course helped you reshape your mind that quickly. But more importantly, like a lot of people have been through the course. But it’s up to the people who go through it to apply. Like, you didn’t just say, oh, that would be cool, you actually stop the video, and you went and raised your rates. And that’s exactly what I was hoping for. Because I think that was the call to action in that video was like, stop right now. And raise your rates. I’ll just tell everybody right now listening to this or watching it stop right now. And raise your rates just like Leo did. And watch what happens. Because it’s amazing. I love hearing that. Not only did that practically help you but the mentality of what that business was or what that website was worth made you think about your business offerings, which is super, super cool, man. So what a great, what a very practical story about how just those little shifts with pricing and value really put you on a whole new trajectory. So for the past year, you’ve been building an app, you’ve been raising your family, you’ve, you’ve really done a lot of great things, you’ve rebranded you, you’ve really got clear on what you do and your call to actions. And now you’re thinking about scaling. And let’s let’s transition back to this life changing event with with your seizure, man. So now that you already you’ve had a year of a lot of mindset shift, and you’re really thinking about your business for the long haul. How do you feel about your business? Now? Since you just went through a traumatic experience? What What does it look like now? What What, what things are? You know, maybe looking differently? Now? What? Let me rephrase that better? Yeah. How did that reshape how you think about your business now.

Leo 32:15
So again, I was probably probably too comfortable. And that can sound funny, because a lot of people they spend, we’re spending our money on comfort. And trying to be more comfortable. And to be comfortable is a good thing. But sometimes we need shaking up and we I think people that live outside of their comfort zone, end up successful. And this broke me outside of my comfort zone again. And it’s made me reevaluate things I was going along and not really thinking very seriously about removing myself from the business so that I can scale things up and bring new people in. And just in this part, in the past two weeks, I’ve been having conversations with web developers, and assistance. And I’m really taking it really seriously, I’ve got whiteboard behind me. And I’m drawing up maps to scale, a roadmap to scale the business, grow it, so that I can remove myself from the company. Because it’s very dangerous if the company is relying on ourselves. You know, I realized the other day, I had to have three days off, and I’ve got projects on the go at the moment. Thankfully, I was actually ahead of the projects on the projects are not behind, we’re a huge thing, you know, I’ve got a couple of people that I can rely on. And they’re really, you know, really reliable, and they would be great to have on hand at that time. But I haven’t actually got people in place, and being serious about scaling. And now I’m just in the past two weeks, since I’ve had this episode, I’m serious about scaling, I’m going to scale this baby up, I’m going to reevaluate all my finances and everything. And make sure that I’m it’s really profitable, but bring new people in and make it so that it’s not reliant upon me. And I would rather have quality designers that I’m making some profit on, and building relationships with, rather than earning 100% of the profit doing it myself, I’ve actually got a copywriter. So that was a service that I added in when I wanted to make things more valuable. And he’s really great to have and that’s just having someone by my side as well in the onboarding calls with the clients and things that’s been really,

Josh 34:49
It’s much less, much less lonely too isn’t it when you actually.

Leo 34:51
Definitely. Even just one or two people, you know, you can just you’re just talking business and when it’s great. Shout out to David And, yeah, so I’m thinking now really seriously about preparing for if that was to happen again, you know, I can’t let my clients down my clients this business model is, is for the long haul, it’s an end to end service, my aim for my business is to make every client that I have at least a seven to 10 year relationship. You know, I’m not building websites, and then just handing them off, I learned a big a big lesson, that when I was working in a marketing company, where we just handed websites off, this is like in 2015, we had no maintenance, there was no long term plan to stick together and to analyze the site and to keep it maintained, backed up secure. But now, it’s completely different. I learned from that failure, and it’s about relationships, you know, we don’t need massive amount of clients as web designers. Yeah, we just need quality relationships with, you know, a client is good. I will add that from your course to Josh about having the clients to be clients and the see clients. And that’s nothing, you know, no judgmental, that’s, that’s not judging where it’s like, that’s just simply a system internally that we can use, right, and really helps us in our communications, you know. So I’m looking for those eight clients, I want to have quality clients that appreciate the work, and that I’m going to be working together for the long haul. And I want to bring on bringing people now that will take over and look after those clients. For if anything like that happens again, to me.

Josh 36:38
So fascinating points there, Leo, you so you are I mean, look, you’ve made a lot of progress in a year, again, you were charging 500 bucks a year ago, and now you’re charging 1000s on average, which is just freaking awesome. So your your mindset was headed this direction, but I love that you said that you got a little comfortable, which is natural, we all tend to drift towards comfort. And you said it, the best things in life are right outside your comfort zone. And that’s true in every area of life. And it sounds like I know, you had told me you know, you were gonna scale one day, but I imagine this episode, I mean, literally woke you up to the fact that you know, particularly in your case, it is different because you’re more prone to this this, let’s be honest, this could happen again, and I’m sure you want to be at the place where if it does, you won’t have the stress of everything on your shoulders from a business perspective, right? So did this really just kind of, you know, seal the deal for you that okay, this is it. This is it like I am scaling for sure is that is that fair to say?

Leo 37:40
Yeah, gave me gave me that push I needed, sometimes I need a little push, I can easily get into just handling the amount of websites that projects that you feel comfortable with. And then even on the sales calls, when you are doing doing your outreach and things maybe you’re a little too comfortable there and you don’t close deals that you you could have. Because you’re feeling comfortable with this amount. And you know, it just doesn’t. When you’re too comfortable. I think in when you’re running a business, not just not as a freelancer, that’s nice. You’ve got your projects, and you know, it’s a secure income. But as a business owner, we do need a constant, we need a constant flow of organic leads coming through. So lead generation is a big thing we need to focus on. Because for me from when they come in for 10 page website, he’ll be around two months to complete that. So I need to see, it’s a tricky one. Because you’re not selling a product where you you get the money, you get 50% upfront, and then you’ve got to time it nicely and have a nice flow of clients coming through constantly. And if you get too comfortable, you’re gonna be stuck in two months, because you haven’t been. But now now I’m willing to scale it. And then I’m thinking about bringing more people in I can focus on sales now. And that that’s really exciting.

Josh 38:59
Is that, yeah, that’s the key for you. That’s what I’m really excited about for you. Leo is over the next like six months or so to see what you do from a marketing perspective, because that’s the the area that most all web designers, myself included, dread was the sales and the marketing. But you do realize, if you’re going to be every hat in the business, you’re going to be every role in the business, you’re going to wear every hat you have to be the salesperson. So yeah, if you’re doing if you’re constantly bombarded with work, that sounds like a really cool thing. But that can be really dangerous. Because if you’re just doing the work and you’re not working on your business and generating leads, that’s really tricky. And those are usually the areas where you have to get out of your comfort zone that that means you’re getting better at communication and working on sales tactics and working on more value for clients and relationship building which is a little daunting for a lot of web designers. But I think yourself and myself included are here as practical examples that if you get out of your comfort zone a little bit amazing things will happen and I love that mindset, because the and I love how you were taking I mean, this is the most practical example of an obstacle to an opportunity because you have, you know, this this underlying health issue that you’re dealing with. And yeah, I’m sure, I can only imagine the uncertainty there, the uncertainty kills me that’s like, that’s the worst thing in the world for me is not knowing exactly what’s going to happen. So I’m sure this is really making you think through your business, think about how it supports your family, and is much more long term based. And I think it’s very valuable. Because a lot of people, you know, we’re again, we’re all different. We all have different situations in life and physical things, we go through whatever, it is really important to think about how your business is going to suit your lifestyle and work for you. That’s actually one of the biggest mental shifts that I’ve had over the past three years, and I can tell you have to Leo is, instead of me just trying to make my business, how can I make my business work for me? Like how can I? How can I arrange it to work around my lifestyle and set us up? And here’s the beautiful thing. Everybody absolutely can do that. It’s literally all a matter of what’s in here, your mindset. It’s all mine stuff.

Leo 41:14
Definitely I can echo that. Definitely. And you mentioned that in your course as well, Josh? scaling, but I wasn’t ready back then. And being pushed, might actually go through and have a look at what you put into your course back then I know you didn’t go too much into it, did you? Maybe that was intentional. But yeah, I hadn’t really thought about scaling back then. It was just making websites and selling them. And this is great. Yeah. But um, yeah, I’ve definitely had a complete mindset change in the past in the past two weeks especially. A little different. It’s not for everybody, is it? Right? The business.

Josh 41:49
So what what a timely Well, a timely question. So yeah, there there are some resources for scaling towards the end. I will link this in the show notes. But I did a series I don’t know if you saw that I did a series before I ever did a podcast or anything with nine other Divi web designers and I it was all about how they scale their businesses, there’s still some serious value in that series. It’s a video blog series, it was actually my first attempt at interviewing. So I’ll send you a link to that, because that’s a good resource. There’s a lot of different perspectives, different levels of scaling. But this episode is going to be I think, 98 and 96, which at the time of recording, this isn’t out yet, is all about scaling a six figure web design business. I’ll send you the link early Leo for you after this. And by the time this comes out, it’ll already be out. But it’s all about scaling a six figure business and then coming up after that. I’m not gonna let the cat out of the bag yet, but let’s just say there’s some freakin cool guests coming up in the beginning of March. And it’s all about mindset entrepreneurialship and scaling, working less, making more a lot of different topics that are going to help in this area. So for you and everyone listening right now who’s you know, thinking about scaling, or really wanting to take their mindset to the next level, make sure you keep on tuning in, because there’s some awesome stuff coming up. So man, I’m super pumped for you in that. And I’ll just say, I mean, you’re already experiencing it, when you scale, if you don’t feel so lonely, you don’t feel so isolated. Because it’s not you, it’s we and I found that really gave me a lot of confidence when I brought Jonathan my lead designer on and, and then when I was working with a bunch of other close colleagues who you all you know, you know, now a lot of them, it just, it made me feel empowered to add and to add more value, like my rates became, instead of me just kind of hoping I was gonna provide the value. Now it was like, Oh, this is this is definitely worth 5, 10 grand, because I’ve got these people who are helping, and they and they know their stuff. So I think you’ll find that I think you’ll find that as you scale.

Leo 43:48
And you will have to up your rates if you scale as well, because you’ve got other other costs of overhead to think about. So that that will really force you to up your rates, then that might be a good, you know, the breadcrumb along the trail to really think about the value of, of a website.

Josh 44:08
You because you can, you can bump your rates up right now. And the same as you know, like I talked about the price bucket. So if you’re charging 1500 just charged 1997. Same amount of people go for that. But for a massive rate increase, that’s where like you said, you have to add the value. Now the cool thing that I’m pumped about for you, Leo is that you’ll find it’s daunting because you have more expenses, and then you’re you know, your profit might not be as much per project. But the really cool thing is is you can focus on what you really want to do and you can grow it so instead of having, you know two or three projects a month and doing everything, you could take on six to nine projects with a couple designers and people help out and you can focus on relationship building and any really any aspect that you want to do like if you still want to be in the design role in some areas, you can absolutely do that. Or you can focus on the sales and then focus on marketing and project management client relationship, circling back around with old clients, which is one of the hidden gems and hidden secrets of successful web design. Because a lot of people tend to think, well, I did their website five years ago, you know, I’m just gonna leave it be well, here’s here’s newsflash, everybody, circle back around with them, let them know what you’re up to let them know your new services, let them know how you can help and I guarantee you’ll close a lot of new projects that way. So I’m excited for you, man, that’s a super exciting step in the new direction.

Leo 45:35
I got a kind of taste of the scaling up with just adding in a copywriter. Because I was noticing how much time it was taking me to do the copy for websites, like at the moment, I’ve got six projects on the go, myself. And what I’m trying to do is, is max out myself, and then bring other people in as I need. And maybe the less local projects, I can bring people in, that aren’t local with remote team. But at the moment, it’s a lot of projects that are really local on the island. And they’re really kind of bespoke websites, luxury, self catering, places and things. But I’ve got someone from England who I struck up a relationship with David, and he’s, you know, taken a lot of the the weight of, so I can just focus on the design, now it’s actually producing, we’re producing better websites, because I was doing the design and then the copy. And I can manage more websites, and I’ll take on more projects. So that’s just been given me the taste of scaling. And imagining that time select five times 10, that’s going to just be it’s going to be awesome. And it’s just going to grow as I as I want it to. And I’m really looking forward to it.

Leo 46:39
The really cool thing is you can start focusing in and honing in on your current clients like that doesn’t mean you need to get 10 clients a month. You certainly can if you want to go it about that route. But it means that you could really take these projects to the next level. That’s the beauty about web design, especially nowadays is even the projects you did a couple years ago, you could circle back around, like we talked about add more value, and even your current clients let them know, Hey, we’re doing more SEO services or, you know, you know, I brought in David who’s my, my content and copywriter we can really up you know your value of your website and get a lot more leads by doing this. So it’s a really cool thing. It’s it’s very freeing, because you can basically do whatever the heck you want. And, you know, like you said focus on your A client’s which is absolutely key.

Leo 47:24
I’ve neglected social media a lot, I suppose. Having Beulah, our second child in 2020. That was you know, I really wanted to focus a lot, the first year is so precious. And I, I suppose I haven’t even really gone in hard on the sales and I’ve just been doing a lot of preparation, I call it my preparation year 2020 it was a strange year for us all. 2021 is my year where I’m going to be focusing more on on sales and figures and things like that, and making sure that it’s actually a real, sustainable business and growing and staying profitable. And I’ve developed my business mindset throughout 2020. And, and constantly invested in myself, you know, I haven’t really spent anything within the business. Apart from I got a nice new Mac 27 inch that was nice. And I can do things like that. But you know, my main, all the money from the business just goes back into self education. Because I just realized how important I am the our minds are just so important. We need to look after these minds and make sure they’re continually developing progressing. And we’re applying all that we’ve learned so that we’re seeing the results. And I think that is just is just huge if we’re seeing ourselves as something to invest in. And that’s push me to scale as well actually.

Josh 48:50
Yeah, that’s it, yeah, you’re, you’re free, you’re gonna free yourself up to be able to work on the business and to learn and grow by scaling. Because there is a point where if you’re a solopreneur, you’re literally just gonna be a hamster in a wheel doing everything. I mean, that’s how what I found myself, I really I couldn’t, I couldn’t scale or I couldn’t really get to the next level until I scaled. It was a little bit different for me just because I had started doing courses and I really blew up Josh Hall co when I started really scaling so had I not had this brand and had I not had the real desire to teach and to do online courses. And this podcast, I would have probably really doubled down with what you’re doing with your agency and scaling it in that matter. But the principles are the same. You Free yourself up to do the work that only you can do and you’re best suited for that you want to do which is which is the super exciting part about scaling. The trick is it’s out of your comfort zone. And not just saying you but everyone the scaling is out of everyone’s comfort zone and it should be like it’s you know, that’s a big decision, but I’m telling you it’s awesome. The best things in life are right outside your comfort zone. So, man, I’m super pumped for you Leo that that’s super exciting. I love where your head’s at where, you know, your focus is. Hats off to you for not worrying about social media during during last year. I mean, that’s okay. Like, your business is doing fine, you scale it just fine. And you spent more time with your family, I’d much rather that than your profits be up by 25%. But oh shit, you just missed out on the first year, your little ones life, you know, that’s the same mentality I have. Sometimes I feel like I should be doing a lot more. And then like, you know what, I’m working 30, 35 hours at most a week right now. And I’m spending time with all my girls. So that’s that’s much more worth it to me. Even even if some some parts of my business are lacking a little bit like that. That’s okay, I’m focusing on the biggest returns. And I want to encourage everyone have that mindset. I love that man.

Leo 50:44
And you hear all of this hustle hard, get it done. And all this, didn’t you but it’s just not for everyone. Like if you’ve got young children, and you want to speed the the beginning of the life, you’re working from home and you have the opportunity. Like you say, we’re talking about this before we came, we came on here as well, Josh, you mentioned, you know, the healthy balance in life that is just huge, like, work out our priorities, don’t get absorbed in business. Don’t become, you know, the love of money is the root of all evil. The Bible teaches us the love of money, you know, money answereth all things it also tells us so you know, the healthy balance with family relationships and you know, these things before our business.

Josh 51:30
Yeah, money is money is interesting, man. My mindset of money is completely different over the past couple years. And I don’t know, it’s fascinating. I want to dive into money more and more, not from a greed perspective. But just the the psycho the the psychology of it. Because I mean, years ago, I don’t know if I ever told you this Leo, I don’t know if I talked about this in a podcast. But I used to think if you made the amount of money that like how old you were, if you made that amount of money a year, you’d be well off. So if you’re 18, you make 18,000 bucks, that’s awesome. 19 19,000 bucks, that would be awesome. By the time I’m 50 50,000, that would be awesome. That used to be my my mindset, I had no idea. Any concept. no concept of inflation or anything else. So you know, the mindset of money is completely different. And I love this, I think this episode was a practical example of how just a couple little tweaks literally changed your mindset of money. And it’s not a great perspective, like, I hate when people view getting rich or being well off as greed. I don’t think that’s true at all. I mean, there are people who just want money, and they get rich and greedy. But I want to have enough money to support my family and do what I want to do in life. And that’s not greed. I’ve everyone who, who has an opportunity to start their own business should have the things they wanted, they worked hard for it, that is totally fine. And I think that’s a really big shift that a lot of people are. I think it depends on where wherever one is in life, but you do have a shift in money. Because if you’re somebody who, who is in kind of like a poverty mindset, where you feel like there’s never going to be enough clients and you’re scared, and you just feel like you’re not worth very much you’re going to be you’re going to be in that place until you have a mental shift.

Leo 53:16
It’s dangerous.

Josh 53:17
Yeah, it’s very, very dangerous. And that’s how I felt for a long time, I could never have charged, you know, thinking about charging of our grand just like you did. But once you get to that point where you realize it’s all about value, and, and the really cool thing where you’re at is you’re making more, and you’re able to scale, not only are you able to provide for yourself and your family, but now you’re giving opportunity to David and other people who are going to work with you. And you’re able to give better products for your clients and have better relationships with them. It really is a win win win. So I didn’t really mean to take us on a tangent of money. But I find it really fascinating and super important to think about, particularly as a lot of my audience are becoming entrepreneurs and business owners from just freelancers. And that’s, that’s a, there’s a big difference between the two.

Leo 54:03
It is an important topic. Because if our hearts in it, it’s where our heart is, isn’t it really, you know, if we if we love money, and that’s why we work because we love money. I think that’s really dangerous. But if we love what we do, and that produces money, and that’s just like one of the things that comes with our money, you know, it liberates you. And I just bought a house in a Dream Island in on the Isle of Lewis and we can do that if we didn’t have money. So yeah, you know, money does change your life. But if you love the money and and that’s what’s motivating you say that’s the dangerous, that’s the dangerous place to be.

Josh 54:38
Well, they say your heart is look at your bank account. And wherever your money is going is where your heart is. And that is the truest statement in the world. Yeah, mine is taking care of these girls for sure. That’s where most of the money goes to which I’m alright with. And I mean, it’s man, it’s true. Like it’s amazing what a mindset will do. Because we just I think you just saw we just went in contract for building our for building a house later this year. Let’s talk about getting out of the comfort zone man. I basically I’ll just tell everyone basically what I made and as gross revenue in 2020 is what I want to take home for my family and 2021. So it’s a big step. Like I basically I am a Christian as well, I truly believe that you give first and I, I’m not saying this out of pride, but I gave, I basically bumped our ties up to give what I want to make. And already it’s been like a game changer with just the opportunities that have come up. If you have that give first mentality, I say all that say, when you have money and you you’re able to build a business, you have more opportunity, you can do more with that money. The worst thing is a rich person who hoarded all the money and didn’t help people out and share that. That’s terrible. That’s great. But if you have the money that…

Leo 55:41
Good parable to support that in the Bible.

Josh 56:00
Right, yeah, if you have to have the means to be able to support your family and help others and create opportunities. That’s what it’s all about. So yeah, totally didn’t mean to take us down that tangent, but I you know, it’s important, it’s important here. It’s important as you scale because when you scale you, you do have to think about money. And you have to think about finances when you scale because if you don’t, it’s just literally not gonna work and something that’s going to be coming up and a couple episodes here I’ll be you know what, I’m gonna let the cat out of the bag. I think it may have already said this. But I’ve got Pat Flynn coming up on episode 100. Talk about talk about an episode that’s about to blow everyone’s mind with a mindset shift. That was huge. One after that, I’ve got my business coach James Schramko, who’s the author of the book love really work less, make more. And it’s coming up, I know, I’m so pumped to release it. He even says this, you have to literally write your numbers out on a spreadsheet, because if you are charging 500 bucks per website, and you want to make $100,000 remember, you got to pay taxes, you got expenses, you would literally have to what how many websites? Is that a year? You know, a ton. That’s, that’s like that is…

Leo 57:14
Getting it wrong now.

Leo 57:15
Yeah, you’d have to you’d have to do a website, like multiple websites a day by what I think two websites a day at that thing and how many days you work. So there it is, like practically you do have to write your numbers out. That’s one thing that James will talk about in that episode. But all that to say, when you think about scaling, turning these obstacles, these obstacles into opportunities. It does have to be done practical. And it does, it does have to be done a lot of times on a spreadsheet. And I would encourage everyone to look at your obstacles and actually think about them. You mentioned earlier, Leo, you were just in that you were going through the motion. Sometimes when you’re comfortable and you’re going through the motions, you don’t sit and think about what’s really going on. So I encourage everyone right now, as we wrap this up, think about your day to day. What do you like about it? What don’t you like about it? Think about some of the problems area? Was there a project like you had Leo that was a big scope creep and learn from that up your rates, go through some training, do something that’s going to help you avoid that, learn from it. And just look at all these different obstacles that you’re going through some sometimes it might be that you’re you’re working so much that you don’t have enough time for your family or you don’t have enough time for you to get a walk in in a day or workout or whatever you want to do. Look at that as obstacles and figure out okay, how can I make this an opportunity? Maybe you’ll stop working at 3pm that was a big thing for me. I used to always work till five I was like what have I stopped I felt weird if I if I wasn’t working at five you know up till five so that was a mindset shift for me a lot of times I’ll stop working at three so do something like that make opportunities out of these obstacles. I think that’s a huge thing. Yeah, I would love to hear your thoughts as we wrap this up Leo on on anything else you’re thinking about now moving forward as you as you’re pivoting from, you know, this mindset shift through through what you’ve gone through.

Leo 59:06
Yeah, so a lot. It’s hard to put it all in, in a few sentences. But yes, it’s growing nicely this this business but I suppose I need to think seriously about growth and not let myself get comfortable again, really. I’ve got so much going on at the moment. We’re actually going through that. We’ve just bought a house, but we haven’t moved into it yet. I’ve got this office here in my rented accommodation at the moment. We’ve got this baby on the way and there’s a lot to go to. There’s a lot going on at the moment and it can be so overwhelming. When you that’s also a danger like when we do stop and think about we might be overwhelmed With the amount of things that, you know, might, we might not really be thinking about properly when you actually put it all down on paper? That’s a good point.

Josh 1:00:06
Yeah, cuz sometimes there’s a, there’s a balance there between getting out of your comfort zone and doing something that’s just not practical, that that’s something we should probably state that there is definitely a balance there.

That’s my aim, I suppose moving forward, is results, and bringing people in to add more value so that we’re 100% going to get those results. – Leo

Leo 1:00:18
Yeah, I suppose it’s adding value constantly to, to the company to ensure that it’s growing, and focusing on profit and reading a great book at the moment called profit first, focusing on the business remaining profitable, keeping up that steady growth, and adding people in choosing very carefully, and trying to remove myself from the from the company and just focus more, I suppose on customer relationships, and really nurturing those customers that I’ve got, building the relationships with them, and kind of removing myself out from the design, and and all of that as much as possible, because it is time consuming. And it can consume you. And it can affect kind of how you look after your clients. You know, maybe you’d follow up more if you had people on your team, looking after that department. So I’ve realized, over this past year, particularly I’ve gone from a solopreneur more towards now an entrepreneur that’s thinking about scaling this business. And I’ve got a couple of other things in my mind that I haven’t, you know, kind of letting onto now. But I’m thinking about niching down, and kind of currently coming up with a business model on how I’m going to do that. What led me to do that was thinking about who I love working with? How is this job going to be the most enjoyable? Who do I maybe want my under this is far ahead thinking but who do I maybe want my children helping out? if they if they take on the business from me, I used to have the business in my name, Rees Evans design, and I’ve just rebranded and Straight Up websites now. But I’m, I’m thinking about how I’m changing their life by coming in and providing the service that I do. And it’s not just yeah, I suppose I’ve moved on from the websites that opened up my mind to what comes after the websites, we need to generate leads drive traffic to this website. And I’m thinking more now about a whole end to end package service that I can produce results for the clients, because I’m so so attached to the results. And I want excellent case studies of the whole, from the beginning to the end. Yeah, and sometimes a website just doesn’t do it. It’s not like you come in. And a lot of the time I’m spending is educating the client, on now you’ve got a website, no need to leave your name PDF, you need to know your customer persona, so that we can actually write the copy so that it’s really personal. We’re going to marry up the content with the design for that particular customer persona. And when they come and they don’t have all of that is very difficult. So those are our difficult clients that don’t have the kind of, you’ll understand Josh, where they come and they don’t really know what they want. Yeah. And you spend a lot of time educating them. And sometimes, you know, it would be so good to have a package where they come in. And you know that when they come in you 100% going to produce results from this website. That’s my aim, I suppose moving forward, is results, and bringing people in to add more value so that we’re 100% going to get those results. And people that can do all the extra things like maybe focusing a bit on marketing, setting up some email marketing, drip campaigns for them. And that that would involve extra people, I can’t do all this by myself. And that was going to be easier to scale a business like that. So that’s pushed me to think about it.

Josh 1:04:06
You can also, as you know, have referral partners for a lot of those things that you don’t want to take on yet. Or maybe not at all, you can just refer those out and take on the aspects that you want to so that’s a beautiful part about scaling. It was kind of cool. I just saw you literally think through what you’re about to focus on over the next five years. And then you did some of that.

Leo 1:04:26
No notes whatsoever.

Josh 1:04:27
I love that though. I like it. I like when it’s real and you know, transparent. So that was actually a good little practical exercise of seeing you literally like try to not figure out how the heck you’re going to sum something up and you did there in the last couple minutes there. So there you go. You just you’ve mapped out your game plan there. So I’m pumped for you, man. You can basically just listen back to this and then write out everything we just talked about. Yeah, just read listen to this and mark that out because there’s your game plan there, man. super valuable Leo dude. Thanks so much for Man, Sharon, some awesome stuff. I know, we kind of took some tangents there. But I really enjoyed this talk. I think it’s all very relevant and important and crucial to overcoming obstacles and making those opportunities, whether it was like we talked about, you know, scaling, the idea of money, obviously, the health stuff that you’ve been going through, thank you so much for being transparent. about that. I know, it just happened. So I figured, you know, I appreciate you being open to talking about that. You’re still going through it, but you’ve really already I can tell how it’s reshaped your mind and really made you refocus a lot of your business, which is going to do a lot of good. I mean, this was going to probably, it’s inevitable with something like that, where it’s going to come into play. So now that you know, you’re almost kind of forced to think through it. I’m glad to help it happen. Now, for you, especially before number three, I know it’s about to get more wild. But luckily, as you scale, you’ll be able to keep on spending a lot of time with family and everything. So So mainly, this has been awesome. Where do you want everybody go to go to check you out, they can check out your website.

Leo 1:06:07
Just come come on to string of websites.com. I’ve got a really helpful lead generating PDF myself on there is a free ebook. And if you come in and and scroll down to the bottom of the homepage, you’ll see the free ebook, and it’s on identifying your customer personas. And I put this together myself and it’s got a lot of value in it. And it basically just teaches you how you’re going to get the most impact for what website. It’s and it’s got a few methods in there as well to identify actually who you’re focusing your website on. So yeah, it’d be great to, for us web designers to to read. And if there’s any of any of you listening to this that is thinking about getting a website and taking the leap, then that’s going to be great to read before. Yeah.

Josh 1:07:01
Well, I just signed up for it as you were just saying that. So here we go. I’m excited to check it out. And yeah, I love I love your new brand. I don’t want to take full credit for the new color scheme, but I’ll take a little bit of credit.

Leo 1:07:12
Oh, I didn’t even mention that. That was awesome. Yeah, for all you that don’t know, I reached out to Josh on the side and said I’m thinking about changing up my brand color palette completely. And it all he jumped to the opportunity. And he gave me actually my brand color palette palette. So I completely add that to Josh. Well, Josh so I upped my rates because of you and changed up my branding colors. So yeah, your your long term friend and yeah, it’s great to be in your community. Everyone is just so great in this community. And you’ve you’ve led me to a tribe that I really feel the vibe.

Josh 1:07:50
Oh, that’s awesome. And yeah, you’re talking about my web design club which Yeah, it’s just become the most amazing little corner of the internet you were one of my first members so man it’s awesome. Having in there to be able to to coach him more directly. And Leo dude, so pumped for you. Thanks for your time, man. Let’s Let’s do this again in about a year and see where you’re at.

Leo 1:08:11
I’d love to. Brilliant Josh, thank you.