Full Transcription

Josh 0:16
Hey, everybody, welcome to the show. And what a special episode I have for you in this one, guys for a couple of reasons. Firstly, this is our centennial episode. That’s right, we are at Episode 100. And before we dive into this, I just have to say, personally, I am so grateful for this podcast, I have learned so much from all the guests. I’ve been fortunate to interview up to this point, I’ve got so much great feedback on the podcast as it’s now been around for about a year and a half to this point. So I hope you’ve enjoyed it. I’m excited to say that we’re not going to be slowing down. There’s a lot of really cool things right up ahead here. So if you’ve enjoyed the first 100 I know you’re gonna enjoy the next 100 even more. So really excited about continuing on with this. And part two of this as I’m extra excited about a very special guest who is joining us for this special episode. This is somebody who has been a real mentor for me. Over the past couple years. He is a world class entrepreneur and I’m bringing in none other than Pat Flynn. If you’re not familiar with Pat, he is first and foremost a father, a husband and an entrepreneur who lives in and works in San Diego, California. He owns actually several successful online businesses. He’s a professional blogger, keynote speaker, Wall Street Journal, best selling author, he’s the host of one of my personally personal favorite podcasts called the Smart Passive Income podcast. He also hosts Ask Pat, which is a personal podcast of his where he asked questions. Those podcasts have earned a combined total of over 65 million downloads. they’ve received multiple awards, and they’ve been featured in publications, such as the New York Times, and Forbes. He’s also an advisor to a lot of startups and a lot of really cutting edge companies these days, including ConvertKit, Lead Pages, Teachable and Circle, which is the platform that I run my membership off of. So needless to say, Pat is the man. I was so stoked to have him come on to the podcast.

Josh 2:25
And in this episode, we dive into what it takes to become a successful entrepreneur. And you know, a lot of you I know, my audience are mainly web designers. But at heart, I know that most of you are entrepreneurs, you’re starting your businesses, you’re running your businesses. And I’ve learned over the past really the past year in particular, that a lot of people who are enjoying the podcast and going through my courses and now my my web design club are at heart entrepreneurs. So you are going to get so much out of this episode, Pat was very transparent and real. About a lot of tough questions I asked him about things like fear and anxiety with going full time and dealing with risk and, and loneliness. As an entrepreneur, we get to hear how Pat went from a past that was not entrepreneurial, and how he broke through those barriers and became the person he is today. which is again a world class entrepreneur who has an incredible following and has made a lot of great impact all while being a family man. So needless to say, you know, it was an absolute bucket list item for me to get pat on the podcast, I was so stoked to be able to talk with him directly. And I know you’re gonna benefit from hearing everything he had to say. Now, one thing that pat and I talked about is that entrepreneurialship is often very lonely. And the best way to combat that is to surround yourself with an incredible community. And this is something we both talk about, you know, your family can support you, but they don’t really understand you. They don’t know what it’s like to be an entrepreneur and have your own business and to be a web designer. So if that’s you, if you feel like you’re alone, I want to encourage you by saying that you are not alone. And I want to welcome you in to my brand new web design club. This is a brand new place where we’ve created this incredible community already of web designers all over the world where we encourage each other, we build each other up, I do weekly q&a, as we do monthly trainings. It’s set up to where you can really thrive and be empowered and supported as a web design entrepreneur. And if that sounds like you and you want to try it out, I want to encourage you to check out and join today. You can there’ll be a link on the show notes for this episode of Josh Hall co slash 100. Or you can just go to Josh Hall co/web design club and that’ll take you there. I’d love to welcome you in All right, guys. Without further ado, I don’t want to waste any more time I want to get right in to having such a special guest Pat Flynn, who is going to share what it takes to become a successful entrepreneur. Let’s do it.

Josh 4:50
Pat, welcome to the show, man. It’s so great to have you on for our centennial 100 episode.

Pat 4:58
Let’s go Josh! Congratulations on episode 100. As podcasts for myself, that is a huge feat I know. And definitely a milestone worth celebrating. So on behalf of everybody listening, well done, and thank you for what you do.

Josh 5:13
Well, thank you, Pat, man, I mean, honestly, and I, I mean this in full sincerity, my podcast would not be where it is, without the help of you and your mentorship through your course. You know, I’ve, I’ve been a fan of you for a while. And I decided to take the leap and go into your podcasting course. And it really was the perfect kind of proven path for me to follow to get the show off the ground. And more importantly, it set me up for the long haul. So a year almost a year and a half into it. And I don’t feel stressed out. I’m not burdened by it, I still love it just like it did day one. And that’s a big thanks to you. And you’ve been a huge mentor man for my for my journey so far. And I want to hear from you in this talk. If you’re willing to share as much as you can about your some of the biggest lessons that you’ve had in your entrepreneurial journey. So I’m excited to get to it, man. Let’s dive in first, though, I typically ask people what they do with their businesses. I want to rephrase the question for you, though, Pat, because you do a lot of things. And I would like to know, when somebody who doesn’t know Pat Flynn, inevitably asked you, so what do you do? What do you tell them?

There’s a lot of things that happen up here in the head, not just what’s on the keyboard or online, that matter when it comes to your success. – Pat

Pat 6:16
I usually start with Well, I do a lot of things. But it’s start started with the time I got laid off back in 2008. And I do tell that story because it provides context, if I just say, I’m an entrepreneur, that can mean anything, right? Am I a Gary Vaynerchuk type, or am I somebody who’s more, you know, building a collection of products in the basement to sell on Amazon, and nobody knows who I am, right. So there’s a there’s a whole spectrum of different types of business owners. So I do like to provide context and the idea that I had gotten laid off in 2008, from my dream job as an architect. And from there, I took some knowledge I had about an architectural exam, published it online, created a study guide to go along with it. And that was the start of my entrepreneurial journey. And then now I’m mostly known Smart Passive Income.com, which is where I talk about my entrepreneurial journey and share all the wins all the failures, the losses, and all the mistakes made along the way to help others who want to do the same thing. And also believe that it’s possible for them to because I didn’t believe it was possible for me. And there’s a lot of things that happen up here in the head, not just what’s on the keyboard or online, that matter when it comes to your success. And for me, I always mentioned the idea that, you know, this isn’t about the money, the money is a byproduct of serving my audience. And it also has allowed me for not just financial freedom, but for freedom with my time because I have a family of two kids at home, 11 and eight, and a beautiful wife who’s there, as well. And we spend most of our time together as a family. And that’s that’s the beauty of the business that I’ve built and the way that it’s framed and the way that I’ve built a team now to help support it as we continue to grow. And currently, I’m doing everything from writing best selling books, to speaking on stages, to selling online courses, and podcasting, of course, now YouTube as well. And just having a ton of fun doing it and trying to inspire others to do whatever it is that lights them up and can help them live the life they want to live to.

Josh 8:03
Well, that’s great. And it was a bit of a selfish question, because as you know, I just recently went full time with my personal brand. And dude, I’ve had to be honest, I’ve had a very hard time explaining what I do, because I’m like, Well, I’m a, I’m a course creator, and also a coach, but I’m not 100% a coach, but I’m like, I also am a YouTuber, but I’m not really a YouTuber, but I have a podcast, but I’m not really a podcaster. So I’ve had a right, yes, yes, it definitely depends on the right, similar to you, what I’ve learned is that I just didn’t really say, Well, I ran a web design business, I sold it. And now I teach people how to do the same. That sounds like a condensed version. So that’s great. I love hearing and it was actually the next question I was gonna have you get into was about your journey, because for any of my audience, most of my audience knows who you are. But yeah, you got laid off, I actually wanted to hear about the beginning of your entrepreneurial journey. Did you start doing a blog and doing some of the freebies and stuff like that? Did you know that you were really going to go full time pretty quickly as an entrepreneur? Or did your journey just kind of did you kind of fumble your way into it? What did it look like in the early days?

Pat 9:09
Fumble is a good word for sure. Because I definitely dropped the ball a bunch of times. And I’ve made a lot of mistakes along the way. But it was definitely something that I wasn’t like, okay, now I’m going to be an entrepreneur, boom, here we go. It actually was an interesting story, because I had built a website as a study tool for myself and my co workers. And that’s it. And this was actually when I still had my architecture job. There was this very, very difficult exam called the LEED exam, which stands for Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design. I had just moved to Southern California from Northern California, which is where I went to school and had an architecture job and I went to a sister office in Southern California. And so I was building this resource essentially for the company to help us pass this exam. And after I passed the exam, it was just sort of sitting there and I had no more use for it. I was moving on to the next exam and eventually it was going to get my architectural license and, you know, do the thing and June 17 2008 Roll by and I got laid off. And that was really hard. Because I didn’t have a plan B, I actually was begging to get back into architecture. I had gone through a little bit of the MLM sort of, I had been asked to go to this meeting that eventually turned into this MLM thing that I eventually escaped, thankfully, but, you know, I was hurt. I didn’t know what I was going to do. And I’m very grateful that I’ve discovered podcasts at the time, it was actually a podcast that changed my life, it was called Internet Business Mastery. And on one of their episodes, it was hosted by two guys, Jason and Jeremy, they interviewed a guy named Cornelius Fichtner, who was helping people pass the project management exam, the pm exam, which I didn’t know what that exam was about, or anything, but the fact that he was teaching an exam was, you know, piquing my interest. And then he said, “I was making six figures a month doing this”. And I said, What are you crazy, like, That’s insane. To me, I wasn’t even making six figures a year, doing the architecture thing, like, this isn’t even real, like this can’t be possible. But it really showed because this guy was genuine.

Pat 11:00
And I went to the website, and I saw what he was doing. And I was like, wow, I might be able to do something similar with some exams that maybe I took. And then I remembered that I had built this website to help people pass in my architecture firm, this particular exam. Now it wasn’t set up beautifully. It was just literally just kind of like, it looks like a textbook really more than anything. So I went back to the website, and I was like, Can I just take this and restructure in a way that looks more a little friendly to the people who might be visiting this? So one of the first things I did is I put a tool called Google Analytics on the website, which many of you, you know, probably know. And I checked the traffic The next day, and it was like 6000 people visited. And I was like, that’s not real. Like, there’s not 6000 people in the firm. All these hits are coming from all over the world. I was like, did I check the website 6000 times? And is that why it’s counting that many. And I dug a little deeper and I found out that this website that I had created online was actually getting ranked for certain keywords about this exam. And it was actually ranking really high. Digging even deeper, I found that I don’t know a few people found this and then started sharing it on forums. And we’re like, Hey, I found this random website. I don’t know who’s the creator, but it’s a resource that we can all use to pass this exam. And I was like, Oh, my gosh, I’ve actually already been doing this without even knowing it. Because I actually initially created it to be a helpful resource. I didn’t even think about sharing it with other people. But thankfully, it was done in a way online. And that was the only way you could because I had blogging experience before that was like an easy answer for me to share the information was just Oh, go to the blog, right. And I had XANGO blog back in college, a personal blog. And that’s kind of where I knew about that kind of technology. But it didn’t look right. But what I found out other people were visiting the website turned on the comments, I made the page look a little bit better. And then all of a sudden, I just started getting flooded with questions. And actually, I started to get very overwhelmed. Like, I don’t know the answers to all these things. I’m sorry, like I shouldn’t like I turned on the faucet too much. But then I started to go, Wow, this actually means they need help. And I could find out the answers to these questions. I could write articles about these questions. And of course, the more I wrote about these questions, the more I got ranked even higher, and I started to see, you know, eight to 10,000 people visiting the website, you know, every day, who are needing help with this exam. And, you know, to make a long story short, eventually, I got wind that I could write an E book to put this information in. I sold that for $19.99. And then in October of 2008, I had sold that book and it made $7,908.55. So that was life changing for me like money coming in that was two and a half times more than I was making when I had my architecture job. But then I remember that month making my first few sales very excited. Immediately the mind started, think about all the bad things that can happen.

Josh 13:44
Yes, I was just gonna ask that. Yeah, like, What do you know? That’s a pivotal point, right?

Pat 13:48
It was and and and I started telling myself stories like, Oh my gosh, what if everybody asks for a refund? And it’s terrible, because I’m not qualified. Like I I’m not somebody who works for a study guide company. I’m just like a random dude, who took this exam. Now I’m sharing that information. What if people get upset? What if I get sued, right? What if the FBI comes in, like, arrests me and takes me away from my family? Like I was literally thinking those kinds of thoughts. But then I started to get responses from people who were actually taking the exam after using my study guide. And they’re all like, Oh, my gosh, you help save me so much time I got a promotion. Thank you so much. One woman named Jackie said, Thank you, you helped me so much. I got a raise. I’m now able to support my family. I’m a huge fan. And I was like, huge fan. Like I literally just helped you pass an exam. Like I wasn’t making that connection. I didn’t understand it. But then I saw the impact of what a fan could do, because she convinced her entire office to each buy a copy of my guide, and I had raised the price to 2999 and she was able to convince 30 other people to go and get it and that one person who I helped really turned into 30 sales and that showed me the power of Helping an individual get something that they didn’t have before? And what that could potentially do for you and how that can potentially scale what it is you’re building. So, again, always questioning even in March of 2009, I was making $25,000 a month with this little exam website. $25,000. I was I don’t know if you even know this. Josh, I still went in for architecture, job interviews.

Josh 15:21
No, I didn’t know that.

Pat 15:23
I still sent my resume. I still went in to take CAD tests at people’s offices in San Diego.

Josh 15:29
And what was that? What was an average salary like 100 150 200?

Pat 15:33
For the position that I was 60,000?

Josh 15:37
Oh, my gosh,

Pat 15:38
A year.

Josh 15:39
Wow.

Pat 15:40
Right. And so when you put it that way, it’s like, why would I even do that. And it’s because I just didn’t believe that that was the path I was supposed to be on, I was almost kind of hanging on to the last, I don’t know, five years of schooling and architecture plus three years in that career, climbing the corporate ladder quite high. And I love this analogy of a ladder, because this is exactly what happened, right? So I climb the corporate ladder. And of course, what happens when you climb a ladder higher, you grab more tightly, right? Because you don’t want to fall. And so I’m grabbing really tight, and all of a sudden, I’m about to get laid off. And so Okay, here’s this new ladder, this architecture, turn entrepreneurial ladder, I see it up there, I grab one hand, I’m selling my book, I grab another hand, my business is growing, I put one foot on it. And I’m sort of like straddling both now, right. And there’s no way that I could climb this new ladder, until I finally let go of the old ladder. You know, and there was a moment where I actually remember letting go, and things started to grow. From there, I started to climb higher money started coming more more opportunity with Smart Passive income. And all this stuff started rolling in once I committed to this new venture.

Josh 16:45
Yeah, that’s funny. I’ve seen the same thing with my personal brand when I was selling my web design agency, which for me, I very much echo what you went through. It’s like, this is what I’m used to. It’s like a mental barrier that I had to kind of push through which it sounds like you did as well. For both of us though, our new endeavor sounds like was paying us so much more probably wasn’t that risky to to do that. And one thing I an analogy I love in regards to that is like swinging from one vine to another. And if you’re swinging to a new income vine, you want to make sure it’s sturdy, so you don’t go plummeting to the ground. So in both of our cases, that sounds like it was the case. But what was interesting about you, is you are you sounds like you’re on a pretty good trajectory in the corporate world. And I imagine mentally, like, you probably really had to break through some mental barriers with that. What? I’m just curious, Do you have anyone inside your personal family or professional network at that time that were entrepreneurs? Or did you feel lonely? Did you have to like, because I’ll be honest, there’s not that many people around me and my wife and I’s family who understand our world of being an entrepreneur and a business owner, so they just don’t get it. They’re in that salary mindset. So for you back then, did you have to kind of push through that yourself? Or are there any mentors or resources that helped you?

Pat 18:01
1,000% I felt very lonely. And I’m thankful that I joined a Academy, the internet business mastery Academy, again, remember internet business mastery podcast, they had built this academy. And for $97 a month, I could join and be a part of this group. And I tried it for a month. And it was great because I connected with other like minded people. And I think that’s really important, because in my personal life, I didn’t have anybody who understood this world. Yeah, I’m very thankful that my fiance who later became my wife, she was very supportive, but she just didn’t know what I was doing or understand it. So I couldn’t like feed ideas off of her and she could like if she wasn’t in this world, or knew anything about it, either. And then my dad especially he was very traditional. I grew up in a very traditional home and had a very traditional path to what was supposed to be success. Got straight A’s, all throughout high school, graduated UC Berkeley magna cum laude, a in architecture got this beautiful job coming out of that, that was gonna be you know, it was I was, you know, crossing my T’s and dotting my eyes all the way through. And yet still, I got let go. So when I got let go from my, my position, here’s what here’s what was my dad’s advice. He said, You know, it’s okay, this happens. We’re in a recession right now. And this is a perfect time, you can go back to school, to get your master’s degree, so that by the time we all get out of this, you will have more education be able to get a better and higher paying job. And the crazy thing was, I knew he was right. He was absolutely right. That’s totally what I could have done. But it just didn’t feel right to go down that path. So I had to fight that I had to fight my path that I was supposed to be on that I thought I was going to be on all the visions I had for being you know, 45 owning my own architecture firm, being principal of that firm, and then eventually retiring at 65. Like I had, I had my whole life planned out, right? Retirement income, all that stuff, and then it was swept out under me. So in addition to getting let go for my position, in order to go into this new space, I actually had to let go of who I thought it was supposed to be. And it was hard because my parents paid my way through architecture school, was I letting them down was that going to be a waste if I went down this new path, so I almost felt committed because of that. And there’s, there’s so many layers to this, right? But I knew deep down that I just felt so betrayed, if you will, not by anybody in particular, but just circumstances in general, having gone down the path that I was supposed to that everybody told me, I was supposed to go down, and yet still having it not work out. And that told me, okay, I could go down this route, again, go get my master’s degree, and who knows what’s going to happen that will have been outside of my control, or from what I’m learning about this business of entrepreneurship, I could, yes, there’s other external factors at play that can have an impact. But ultimately, it’s up to you as the entrepreneur, to decide your fate, and to learn how to pivot and to learn how to deal with that. And, you know, I quickly learned that in order to grow into entrepreneurship, I had to let go of who I thought it was supposed to be, and get motivated by others, and help and get support and mentorship to determine where I need to go and where I can go.

Josh 21:05
Well, what a timely message man, especially you know, we’re recording this in early 2021, just after one of the most wild years, in a very long time. And when it comes to pivoting, you know what I do as a course creator and a coach. Now, so many of my students have had to pivot from careers that were quote, unquote, stable. And I think I love hearing that story about what you went through. Because it it like you mentioned, it’s very complex, there’s a lot of levels there. I didn’t even think about that. For people who are in a position where their parents are paying for school or helping that you probably feel a little obligated to follow through with that. And to be able to, to kind of go on your own and really embrace, especially back then I mean, what 2008 2009 entrepreneurialship looked a lot different than it did now. Now it’s easier than ever to get your own business online. And you could probably say that, and I’m sure you got a lot of interesting looks from family and friends back in those days. So you took the plunge. Now, at that time, were you engaged when you got laid off? Is that right? You said it was your your It was a fiancé when you got laid off? And then you started?

Pat 22:13
Yeah, the timing of this whole thing was just not great, right? I propose to my girlfriend on March 31 2008. Okay, June 17 2008, is when I got let go. And our wedding was planned to be in February. And a little bit about me and my wife, we’re both my wife is full Filipina, I’m half Filipino. When you have a Filipino wedding, you invite like the entire country of the Philippines, by the way. And so we were trying to support our families and, you know, respect to the elders and our, you know, it’s very traditional, right, in terms of like a Filipino type wedding. And so we were going to invite all these people, and we were going to have to pay for it. And we got some help from our parents too. But, you know, we ended up moving back to our respective homes in San Diego to save money. So I was living with my parents, you know, here, it was on this trajectory of being a what I was hoping to be a world famous architect. Now I’m living with my parents, right. It’s like complete reversal of what I had wanted. So I think, and in the end, that actually worked out in my favor. And the reason was, because, I mean, I love my parents, but I didn’t want to be at my parents home. I wanted to live my life. So I was motivated every day. I mean, I was literally working 14, 16 hours a day, on this architecture website, helping people and I remember, in addition to building the website, a lot of people go, well, How’d you do that? I built a website, but it’s not really going anywhere. I spent most of my time in forums. And I was in forums, answering every single, like, annoyingly answering every person’s question, because I wanted to be the one that showed up. Not ever asking for anything in return, the only thing I had in returned was a little byline in my signature that drove people back to my website. And then what I ended up finding was happening was just even after a month or two of doing that, I would sign on in the morning, like I usually do. And I would go find out who had questions. And I would see other people answered before me. But their answers were, oh, just wait till Pat wakes up usually comes in and helps out.

Josh 24:12
So you can close that guy and those forums. You became the helper,

Pat 24:15
Exactly in that was kind of cool. Because when I think about it, I actually wasn’t, quote, unquote, an expert on this exam. I just got perceived, or I had been seen as one because an expert really is somebody who just who just knows a little bit more than somebody else who needs that help right now. To be honest, and, you know, I just was the person who would crank harder than others to look up the answers to those questions. And I knew answers to a lot of them. And of course, you know, I took the exam and I did pass barely, but I was still able to help somebody who had no idea even where to start. Yeah. And, you know, there was so so many things and I you might enjoy this story because as things were rolling in, and as a course creator, you might enjoy this or maybe cringe a little bit. I don’t know. We’ll see. But I had when I started having money rolling in, I had paid a company to build a online course platform. Within my WordPress website. This was back before, you know, teachable and all these other course creation tools existed. So I paid a company to build a course creation platform where I could create modules and lessons and, you know, attach videos to it and really have behind a paywall, students come in and get my material. And I had planned to take my book, which was very successful, and turn it into an online course with some videos much more valuable. I could charge way more. In fact, a lot of competitors who had courses that were more from those, like professional course companies, they were charging upwards of 900 to $1,000 to go through like a week long course. So I was really motivated. But then I had built a tool spent 2500 $3,000 building that tool was ready to go. I never uploaded one lesson. Because I was too afraid of making too much money.

We hear about this thing called the fear of failure, right. But there’s also a fear of success. – Pat

Pat 26:03
Honestly. I was so scared of what that would unlock. I was not used to this kind of success. And I was almost complacent. Oh, this is going so well. Like, is this actually greed? is this? You know, there we hear about this thing called the fear of failure, right. But there’s also a fear of success. And I think that I was a little bit too afraid to take that next step. Because partly, okay, what if I do make all this money? But secondly, again, same same questioning, like, what if this isn’t good enough? What if people don’t like it? I think I just feel safer, just like not touching it at all right? and feeling safe is good. But if you’re an entrepreneur, and you’re trying to feel safe all the time, you’re not going to get anywhere. That’s that’s what I eventually learned. So I lost out on a lot of potential money that Yeah, money’s important. But what I could have done with that money to help others, it makes me feel bad that I just kind of got in my own way.

Josh 26:56
Well, I was just thinking too, you probably had, you probably felt like, maybe that wasn’t even in your, in your deck of cards to have that kind of money, right? Like, for me, the thought of being a millionaire a couple years ago, I would have never, ever thought that I would have my eyes set on seven figures, but I’m not there yet. But like the past year, probably less than six months, actually, that seriously on my mind. So I’m almost becoming a different person, I literally wrote out a list of what I would be like, as a person, if I was making seven figures, and that’s my list, that’s gonna help me determine how I shape my business moving forward. So was that kind of something you had to war with? Like, is that even me to make that kind of money?

Pat 27:42
You know, and part of the struggle is all I mean, there was a lot of, again, multilayered, right? A lot of mental conversations happening. I mean, part of it was I saw other people who were very successful, who were just like jerks, right. And sometimes I associated like, rich people online with a lot of money with like the snake oil salesman, and I didn’t want to go down that route. So I kind of was afraid of going down that route, too, which, of course, is under my control, I get to do I get to behave and choose how I want to behave online. And, you know, ultimately, it’s my choice. But I was just, I didn’t want to be put into that bucket. Number two, I think, you know, a part of it was honestly, when it came to thinking about actually getting behind the camera, and filming these videos, that scared the crap out of me too. So I think that in my head, I was like, Ooh, this is gonna be a great idea. And if I executed on it, it would have worked. But I just don’t think I was mentally prepared for all that it would take. And also the potential outcomes of that I was thinking about all the negative things that could happen. Versus imagine how many more people would pass this exam and have raises and get promoted if I were to actually do this, right. Because not everybody has the time to read a book, but they can during their lunch hour, watch a little video, while they’re, you know, sitting in their architecture office or something. I just man I lost out. But I definitely learned from that because in the future. Now when I have these feelings, I think about who it is that I can make an impact on and that if I were to give up, that’s who I would be affecting, so I actually push through now.

Josh 29:12
Sounds like he really struggled with a lot of maybe not self doubt, but fear and worst case scenario type of stuff. Do you do you? Do you still feel like that every once in a while? Or do you feel like your journey has really helped you get past those feelings pretty quick.

Pat 29:29
I still have those feelings. I try new things all the time. I just started a new YouTube channel in a hobby space, a hobby that I’m very interested in. And I still have the same feelings, right? I remember what it was like when I first started. However, I now know that number one, a lot of times this discomfort, the resistance if you if you want to call it that there’s a book by Steven Pressfield called the War of Art that points this the resistance, sort of like Star Wars, right? It’s actually a sign right that there’s potentially something amazing on the other end That fear shows up when it is in a place where you’re outside of your comfort zone, which is where all the growth happens. Right? So now I’m quick to take those feelings and rewrite that story. And I also have understood a lot of the science behind it too, right? Like, the same parts of your brain fire. Like if you put you know those little things on your brain tissue, what fires and what doesn’t, the same parts of your brain fire up when you’re excited. And when you’re fearful or scared. It’s just a matter of how do you want to take that energy or that those those electrodes firing? And how do you want to, you know, interpret that. And so now I interpreted as Wow, okay, this is something I can get excited about, this is new, this is going to get get me juiced up. And if some if this works like great, I’ve also understood that failing is a part of the process, like this is something that as an entrepreneur is required. And that was also a very hard thing for me to deal with mentally because when I grew up, remember 4.0? student.

Josh 30:49
I was just gonna say, yeah, failure is like the worst thing ever.

Pat 30:52
And that was the worst, I was trained to hate failing. And to give you a quick story, I remember coming home from school with a 97% of my math test, right, nailed it. Almost, I go home, I remember this vividly. I give the paper to my dad. He goes, What happened to the other 3%, like literally first words out of his mouth. And we worked for the next three or four hours painstakingly, through what had gone wrong. It’s just a terrible time. He’s making me feel like I’m an idiot. I love my dad, by the way, but that’s just as a child how I felt at that time. And I’m very grateful that he helped me to understand how to fix the things that maybe weren’t where they should be. But at the same time, there was no sense of, Oh, you got most of it, right? Like, great job. Let’s now see if we can consider working on those few things that you got wrong, right? It was just like, Ooh, that’s wrong. Let’s work on that. Because that’s not good. And again, I love my dad, to like, he’s a huge fan of my work now, which is pretty cool. He’s seen me speak on stages in front of 1000s. Like it’s been, it’s been really cool. I love my dad. But that didn’t help when I got laid off. And wanted to start a business because I wanted everything to be perfect. And as a result, I didn’t take action wrong on a lot of things or things took a lot more time. I had a lot more doubts, etc.

Josh 32:16
Yeah, well, something you said a little bit ago that has just really resonated resonated with me there was that fear and that feeling of unease and anxiousness. Because this way, I just did a presentation recently in my membership, about how to get better on camera, because I’m encouraging all my students do stuff on camera, because if you do short videos, it just separates you from the competition and everything, for sure. And I one of the biggest points I said in that was, if you feel anxious, are a little afraid to get on camera, that is okay. But you can use that energy to help your enthusiasm. And to help just kind of give you some energy and not necessarily paralyze yourself. I love that man. And that you could take that on a macro level or a micro level, whether it’s being afraid to go full time and to do this or being afraid to step out and go to a networking group or something like that. So that’s such a great point, man. Let’s talk about something really quick. And I actually want to ask you the same question that you asked me, I was honored to come on your podcast recently for Episode 456, for the SBI podcast. And you asked me what I would recommend to somebody who has a little more risk in their situation before going full time, particularly for those who have a family or have a mortgage or something, there’s definitely there’s a lot more that goes into going full time and the entrepreneurial path and web design or whatever industry when you do that, so you asked me that. And I’d like to ask the same thing to you. What are some of the most important things or maybe a couple important things that you would recommend somebody think about before they make that big decision?

I often flip the script really quick, and I go, well, what’s the risk of NOT doing this? – Pat

Pat 33:47
Yeah, I mean, the first thing I often do is flip that mindset, right? Because when people go will, you know, this is risky, like, you know, there’s there’s some negative things that can happen here, right? That’s often where we go first, right? Which is, which is great. That’s our biological security system, if you will. And that’s important because we can reduce the risk, which keep us safe. But I often flip the script really quick, and I go, well, what’s the risk of not doing this? Right? I want people to think about what happens if they continue on the same path. And if we take a little trip at the DeLorean in the future, and we consider ourselves at from this point forward, we have two choices. We go this way. Or this way. Let’s travel into the DeLorean into both scenarios, into the future and see how we feel after each of these. And what we perhaps either feel like we missed out on or we might regret. You know, for me, I often like to live by this phrase. And that’s I’d much rather live a life full of Orwell’s than a life full of full of what ifs. Right so so so that that’s important to me, right? I want to see if it works. And if it doesn’t, at least I know it doesn’t. versus when I’m older sitting in my you know, Grandpa chair or whatever thinking wow, what if I had done that? And just like that eating me all day eating, eating my brain all day, I don’t know. So that’s it. Kind of where I often have my students start when we start thinking about this, like, let’s flip it to potentially the positive, what could actually happen if you do this?

Pat 35:07
So that’s number one. Now, there is risk, obviously, you might have a family you might have, you know, some other things going on you. Often we, as you, as I’ve already demonstrated, we often think about the worst case scenarios, right? So, if we step back from the situation, we go, Well, what is actually the worst thing that can happen if I were to give this a shot? Yeah, a lot of times, it’s not even close to what it might be. Right? You might find that Well, actually, you could just go get another job back to the thing that you were doing before. If that’s, in fact, something that, you know, didn’t work out on this new path, you can go back, like I could have gone back to architecture eventually, and have no problem, right? If the business thing didn’t work. And I didn’t even think about that. I was just like, my life is over. What am I going to do? You know, I’m going to end up naked in a ditch somewhere, like, you know, just like our brains are crazy like that, the same time, even on that on that front? No, because I have some friends and family who if I were really, really struggling, they would help me, and they would support me, and I have advocates in my life. And so that’s really key too. So honestly, there’s a lot of things working in my favor to take this risk. Now, obviously, if money is an issue, then you could potentially build a little bit of a bankroll. First, just to kind of keep yourself above water in case things take a little bit more time than expected. And many people want a little bit of a safety net as well. And that can help reduce the risk to I think, also realizing that there are people out there who are likely doing the things that you are hoping to do. And they’ve done them already. And I’ve already gone through a lot of the mistakes and could shave hours, days, weeks, years off. Yeah, decades of a learning process. Yeah, right. So this is why when I’m trying something new, I often go Okay, who’s done this already. Right. I’m like looking around, and I try to find somebody This is ever all parts of my life. From the time I committed to running a triathlon, I found a person who knew how to do it, hired them to help train me. And you know, the part of that that was interesting, because he had a business too. And I was able to get a good deal because I was able to kind of pro bono a lot of that too, which is pretty cool. When I’m learning a new platform, okay, who are the big players on this platform right now? And what are they doing? Well, that’s working and who’s teaching about this stuff, so that I don’t have to go and fumble like I did in the beginning, I can just go to a person who’s done it before me. And that reduces the risk. Because part of the risk is taking too long to figure things out.

Pat 37:29
Now, you will stumble, you will make mistakes. But if you can cut that in half, or by, you know, three quarters, because somebody else has already gone down that path first, hey, then it might even be worth investing into that, or at least investing time into doing the research. So that that’s important too. And then the big thing that I often recommend for people starting out who feel like this is a big risk is, you know, also remember that it’s not always just a binary choice, like I’ll have to go all in on this or all on on this, you can actually slow roll your way into it, right? Like a lot of people, I’m sure many of your students also continue to have a nine to five job while doing the web design stuff on the side. And that’s, that’s great, too. There’s a great book by Chip and Dan Heath called Decisive, that really unpacks this idea that we as humans, we just like, we just think A or B or Yin and Yang, or you know, two, there’s only two sides of the coin. But there’s often in the decisions that we make moving forward a whole spectrum of things that can happen in between. And it’s important to consider those options too. And there’s likely a less risky option in the middle somewhere for you.

Josh 38:31
Yeah, that’s great. Yeah, what a great answer, man, it’s funny cuz I listened back to the interview I did on your show. And you asked me that, and I kind of wish I would have gave you I gave you the right answer that I generally say, but I didn’t really explain the point is articulate as I would have liked to, because my two things are just what you said, look at the actual worst case scenario, because it’s usually not near as bad as you think it’s gonna be, like I said, I mean, most people are afraid to fail, they’re terrified of so they’re never going to start their business. But in reality, it’s probably you know, the worst case scenario, you’re not going to be living on the street more than likely. And then once you think about that, you’re okay with it, move forward. And then the other thing for me was the big takeaway that you said, learn from a proven path, learn from somebody who’s already done it. That is, that’s key. And that’s why I think both of us enjoy what we do is sharing what we’ve learned to help expedite, I mean, dude, the podcast is the perfect example. I would have been fumbling my way through this podcast for a good three years to get to the point where I’m at right now, but your course helped me get there in a matter of months. So I love that and there was one thought I wanted to hit on real quick before we move on. When you talked about the risk of not doing something of not moving forward. I didn’t tell you this when you interviewed me but my the cabinet making job that I got laid off from they actually called and said I could have my job back six months later. And I had to really war with myself because I was getting into design and web design and started making a little money on the side. And they said, Hey, Josh, you know It’s company, we’re think we’re bounced back, and we’re ready to have you back. And I was like, I followed my gut, my gut, I just felt like if I go back, that’s it, like, I’m gonna, I’m gonna have a whole different path. I’m gonna get stuck to this. I think it was $11 hour and a job at that point. So I didn’t do that. And I went for it. And that was it. That was like the moment for me and my mom, similar to your dad, bless my mom’s heart. She’s kind of a worrier. She’s a traditionalist, she’s, you know, she’s in a corporate job, salary mindset. But she was like, I just think you’re crazy Josh for not going back to that job. And it’s just a whole different, it’s a whole different game we’re playing in the entrepreneurial world.

Pat 40:40
Most entrepreneurs are considered crazy by people on the outside, that’s, that’s for sure. But that’s a sign if you feel at all, you might be crazy, or other people are calling you crazy, you’re probably you know, doing the right things. Because those are things that those people wouldn’t have even the guts to do or just can’t imagine doing. And that’s the difference between leaving a more freedom and fulfilled life, or being tied down. Not that working for others is bad. But just if you want more freedom and want that financial freedom and time freedom, then you know, entrepreneurship is the right thing to do. Yeah, but it is kind of crazy. To be honest, it’s it is a crazy thing.

Josh 41:18
It is wild, it’s definitely I think it’s a pool that if you feel it, it’s for you, if you don’t feel it, my brother, for example, he’s happy working a job he likes. He’s a software engineer, computer guy, he likes working from somebody clocking in and clocking out and going home. And that’s it. That’s cool. Like, we’re just different wired. So I love that I love that idea of the pool.

Pat 41:37
I mean, it’s interesting, though, because when I think about before I got laid off, I absolutely loved it. Right, I enjoyed the nine to five. But it wasn’t until I got like go that I realized that there were other options for me out there. And I find that this I like better. And so this is something that me and my wife are trying to do with our kids is just we want to share all the options out for them out there. We don’t want them to be entrepreneurs, we don’t want them to work nine to five, we want them to do what makes them happy and gives them joy. But we just want them to see they have all the options. And they can choose their own path once they start to discover themselves and who they are and what their skill sets are. And their superpowers are. So I’m so grateful I got laid off.

Josh 42:13
I’m so yeah, isn’t that wild? Yeah, it’s like the best thing that ever happened to us, man. I love that too. Because Yeah, my daughters are two and one right now. And we have the same mindset, my wife and I were like, we’re gonna let them know that there’s all kinds of options, they can do whatever they want. Like if one of my daughters wants to be a plumber, by golly, just be the best damn plumber and do it and excellence and have a blast. And, and, you know, make it awesome. So what would you say? I mean, I know you’ve got so much experience in your journey as an entrepreneur, Pat, I would love to talk about routines and time management, all that. But I want to focus on some of the bigger things right now. What would you say are some of the most important aspects to focus on as an entrepreneur, I mean, most of my audience are web designers. But what I’m finding is most of my listeners are at heart entrepreneurs. They’re business owners, they’re managing a lot, and they want to make a lot more and work a lot less and spend time with their families and have freedom. What are some of the most important things that you recommend people focus on? Is it delegation? Is it focusing on what you do best high level tasks? What? You know, I know, it depends on the industry. But are there some like general things that you just recommend people focus on that are more important than others, especially now? In 2021?

Pat 43:26
Yeah, I mean, I think the most important thing is to know what you want. And I know a lot of entrepreneurs who are working hard, and they’re doing the thing. But they’re kind of not aiming toward anything, they’re just kind of in the routine. And without a goal, you might run out of gas, right? Just like in the navigation system in your car, unless you’re knowing where you’re going, you’re kind of just driving around aimlessly, and you know, you’re going, but you might end up further away than where you actually want to end up. And so this is why my book, will it fly, for example, the first few chapters are about you, and where you want to go and what your path is, and that needs to be defined. Or else. Why are you doing what you’re doing? How are you going to guide your decision making processes? How are you going to say yes to or no to an opportunity without knowing how that opportunity makes sense for the ultimate place that you want to end up? So I think it’s important to, although we’re often in the day to day and grinding and working hard, especially if you’re just at the start having an idea of the kind of life you want to live. Three years from now, five years from now I know we don’t even know what things are going to be like then. But what would a typical day be like to you that would make you happy and spark joy? If you are understanding that, then it’s going to be easy to say yes to things. And it’s also going to be easiest to say no to things. And that’s one of the hardest things to do as an entrepreneur is to say no to things. And once I learned how to say no to things, all the things I said yes to have been that much more powerful.

Josh 44:52
It right and is that the type of work because I know a lot of people when they think about the goal, the immediate thought As money well what I want to make this year, but I’ve learned to really mean that can be a factor I’ve found but more important, I think what you’re hitting on is, yeah, what is your day to day look like? What is the type of projects and clients look like? Because if you just have a money goal, you’ll likely take some terrible projects on that are not in line with your vision or your daily routine. Is that kind of what you mean by really having a path in mind?

Pat 45:24
Yes, exactly. Not it’s not a money goal, though money can be a part of it, like you said, but I have a lot of conversations with people who want to start a business. And when I go, well, what’s your goal? I want to make seven figures as an entrepreneur. Okay, that’s a that’s a cool goal. Why? Because, you know, there’s just a lot of things I want to do, I think that’s gonna be enough to support me and all the goals I have. Okay, but what are those goals, and when we, when we really unpack it, we begin to realize that they actually only need to make $150,000 a year to get that a business that’s making a million dollars a year is way different than a business only making $150,000 a year. And it’s going to be much easier, obviously, to get clients or to do the work or to say no to things that would help you get to the goal that you need. And imagine how much more freeing and more time that you’ll have now that you only need to get to here instead of way over there. And I think it’s hard because we live in this world where we need to grow as big as fast as possible, right. It’s just how we are as people in this world today. And there’s a lot of factors involved with that. But there’s a really good book by me named Paul Jarvis called Company of One. And

Josh 46:33
Still got it on my desk here.

I think understanding your superpowers is very important. – Pat

Pat 46:36
I see it. There’s, there’s not, it’s not like you only need to be yourself in your company. That’s not what it means it what it means is really the thesis of the book is like, grow because you know, you want to grow and you have goals don’t just grow to grow. Yeah, and I think that it’s okay, if you don’t want to grow, and you just want to sustain. Because when you grow to grow, you might end up going beyond where you want to work as it were, or how much you work or levels that you don’t even need to get into. Yeah. So that I think is really important. Another thing is, understanding what your superpowers are and where your zone of genius is. And realizing that it’s okay to let go of things so that others can support you. That was a huge realization. For me when I initially started, I wanted to do everything myself. And I don’t know if it was because I only felt I could do it that well. That was probably the case for some some things. And then in other cases, I just felt like it was almost cheating to have other people do things for me. In other cases, there was a sense of pride when I did the whole thing. And it wasn’t anybody else helping me. And I find that that was just the wrong mindset. Because I’m at a point in my business now where I get to do the things that I know only I can do in the business that have the bigger impacts to grow the business like relationship building, or, you know, the podcasting and you’re getting behind the microphone, I’m no longer editing my podcast, I no longer putting the words into a blog post and hitting published, I’m no longer actually even worried about the team and their responsibilities, because I have a person under me who’s focused on that. So I can fully put my zone of genius where it needs to be. And I think understanding your superpowers is very important, so that you can ultimately end up there. Now, if you’re just starting out, you might not have the ability, or it may be irresponsible to just spend a whole crapload of money on hiring other people right away. But I think easing into it starting small with writing out all the tasks that you do and understanding Okay, which of these tasks can only I alone do? And which of these tasks are things that other people could do? or other software a lot of times software can solve a lot of problems and take a lot of time away from you? or seeing Okay, what are the things that I’m doing that actually aren’t even required? Right? We often over complicate everything. And a big question that I’ve learned to ask myself lately, and I got this from Tim Ferriss is, if this were easy, what would it look like? And that guides me so much, and a lot of the things that I’m doing if this were easy, what would it look like? And I just tried to do it that way?

Josh 49:08
What a great answer. Yeah, it’s funny, because that’s kind of what I’m going through right now, particularly with my podcast, I have a VA who does the outlines and distribution, but I’m still currently editing it. And my next step is to hand that off. For me. It’s probably just a little bit OCD, a little control freak in me that’s like, I’m so terrified of it going live and it being messed up, which is probably something you experienced as well when you when you get going through that. But I’m really excited because I found that mindset when I scaled my web design business, as soon as I offloaded some of those design tasks and a lot of the admin stuff, it just freed me up. I mean, once you get a little taste of delegation, it just frees you up and actually wanted to ask you on that note of hiring out I think you laid out a really good point there. You don’t want to like go too far into it too quick because you could end up losing a lot of money, but you’ll find that if you sleep If you have to pay some money to take some of those tasks out of your way, you have so much more room and time and freedom and mental energy to do high level stuff. What would you say to somebody who’s leery of offboarding stuff? Because they’re just terrified to pay somebody?

Pat 50:14
Yeah, start small and think about this as an investment, you are investing money into somebody who could do these things that you normally do. So that blank, what are you opening up as a result? Are you just, you know, getting more time to watch, you know, Queens Gambit? Well, in which case, well, maybe it doesn’t even seem like that makes sense to invest in something like that, just so you can have some time to watch Netflix. But if you understand that, now, this time is coming back. So you can spend more time on more coaching programs or developing your next course, imagine the ROI of that, right? Imagine the ROI of you investing in somebody to take some stuff off your plate that you hate doing to now have more happiness, and more weight lifted off your shoulder, how much more joyful you would be every day, how much more grateful you would be how much less stress you would have, imagining investing in somebody who then takes stuff off your plate, so that you have more time to invest into your family into your kids, however, you want to use that extra time, you got to realize that it’s an investment, right. And it’s not necessarily a pay this person this much money. Now I make three times more kind of investment. But it’s oftentimes a mindset investment and creativity, investment, a lifestyle investment. And that’s really important to understand to start small. And I would start on a particular project to kind of vet and see what that’s like. And then you can expand from there. For example, I hired a person to help me with my email because I was drowning, under 10,000 unread emails at one point, or her name’s Jess. And now she’s my executive assistant and does so much for me to take things off my plate, everything from booking travel to booking podcast guest to fulfilling merge to like, all this stuff is is just taken care of by her now, but she started with the one thing I needed to help with at that time, which was email. I hired a person Mindy to help me edit my ask Pat podcast back in the day, and like you said, I got addicted to handing things off, because I saw that, that saves me about three hours a week. That’s 156 hours a year. That’s days of my life given back. Yeah, as a result of that. And then I was like, okay, who else gonna hire and for what? And I was just like, let’s do this, because it’s time that I’m getting back as great.

Josh 52:33
Did you hate any of those tasks? Cuz I gotta be honest, I still kind of like editing the podcast. I think that’s where I’ve probably delayed on this because most of my tasks now are on the camera, high level stuff. So every once in a while I still kind of like being the freelancer do I just get in and I’ll just crank some tunes and go for it. But I realize I’ve got to stop myself at some point. Because I cannot get to the next level, like I talked about earlier, looking towards a seven figure mindset. I can’t get to that point. If I’m stuck editing my podcast.

Pat 53:04
I hated email, that’s for sure. So that investment makes sense. But here’s the thing and why I waited four years to have person edit my show. Because it was the exact same thing for me, Josh, I loved editing my podcast. But in order to grow, if I wanted to be the CEO of my company, I shouldn’t be in the weeds editing my podcasts because that is actually although I enjoyed it. As far as where my time could be spent. How much? am I helping people editing a podcast, versus taking that same amount of time being on a call that’s recorded that can help somebody and also get pushed out into YouTube and all these other places? Right? What can you do with that time is really what makes the most sense. So I enjoyed it, too. But I made the decision to let go of that. And yes, I was like, you know, kind of a hawk at first to make sure it was done correctly. And I found out Guess what? Maybe you could do it better and faster than me. Right? And so I was like, wow, this I should have done this way earlier. Right now, there are some things that I do in my business, I absolutely enjoy that. I’m like, No, I’m not handing off. I think it’s important to still have some joy and feel maybe like you’re, you know, like I do my slides for all my presentations still because I have a little bit of a design background. I enjoy that.

Josh 54:27
And I was even thinking with your courses, you probably have to stay up on set some technology right with some of the weeds on the technical tools that you teach on.

Pat 54:36
Oh, yeah, for sure. For sure. And a lot of my team realize that because I give them the responsibility to do that. And that’s that’s a big tip when you when you start to hire your own team, whether it’s starting out as a contractor or basis, which makes it a lot easier. I was actually working with an agency for six years until I finally I just bought the company essentially and I now have all of those people working for me and their employees now Which is a whole new level of sort of HR and like that kind of stuff, which is a little bit of a headache, but it is worth it because I found that when I brought them on, and they’re now a part of Team SPI, they’re fully committed, they feel like they’re a part of the company, versus before, they were just like a company I hired. And there’s just a different sense of showing up in service to my audience, that feeling from every single person in the company, which is really amazing. So it’s a big step. But it’s, it’s been amazing. And the fact that you know, even like Mindy, who I mentioned, she had a kid a couple years ago, our company paid for her whole health insurance, right? And so she could have a safe, you know, birth and like, that feels really good. That feels really good. We’re supporting other people’s lives, too, in that way.

Josh 55:41
That’s beautiful. Pat, what a great answer, man. Hey, man, I got two more questions. I want to be respectful of your time here. I would love to know, because the entrepreneurial journey, as you know, is filled with highs and lows. And a lot of my students have made really great progress. But every once in a while you get into a rut where clients are down, or there’s just low points. I would love to know, have you ever I’m sure you have what was a low point that you had in your entrepreneurial journey, either early on or maybe later on? And how did you get through it?

Every second you waste on a hater is a second that you’re taking away from everybody else who needs you. – Pat

Pat 56:10
You know, there was a lot of low points for sure. This is not a straight shot type of thing. It’s a roller coaster. And there was a point in I think 2012, I had started to gain some momentum with smartpassiveincome.com and started sharing my story a lot. And I was on other people’s podcasts written about on other blogs. And I go to check my blog, and I see that there’s a comment. His comments are really nasty. This guy is tearing me down talking about how I’m a fraud. I’m a fake, I’m a scammer, or whatever. And it’s like 500 600 words in length, I mean, really getting into it, and how I look and how I dress like really, really nasty. So of course, like many trolls on my website, just delete it. I just don’t even worry about it, because that’s what I was trained to do. And it still gets to me a little bit, right. I’m still like, irked about it. But you know, they’re out of the picture now. Well, later that afternoon, I check my email, and I see maybe 50 or 60 messages from some different friends of mine, who all are seeing the same thing. It bad. This guy’s leaving a really nasty comment on my blog, the one that you were featured on, and like, What’s going on here? Can I help you like what’s what’s going on this guy had copy and pasted that message to all the places online where I was mentioned. And I fall into a deep, dark place. I stop working for an entire month. I don’t blog. I don’t podcasts. I don’t do anything but think about this person. And the more that I think about them, the more I start to believe that maybe this person’s right. And it wasn’t until I got I got I got to give a big shots. My friend Derek Halpern, who reached out to me because he texted me and said, Dude, are you okay? You like disappeared from the face of the earth? And I’m like, Yeah, I don’t know if this is cut out for me, just this guy’s saying really nasty things. And he might be right. And, and Derek got really upset at me. He was like, and he’s from New York. And he’s very just in your face and aggressive about things just how he is. And I’m very thankful for that. Because he basically sent me straight. He said, Are you are you telling me that this one single person who’s saying these nasty things about you is stopping you from helping the 1000s of people who need you and the 1000s of people you’ve already helped none of that you do not care about those people that you’ve already helped, like, this person matters more to you than that. I’m like, No, this person matters at least. And he’s like, you’re not demonstrating that. Because you’re thinking about this person all day long. And now as a result, you weren’t able to help anybody. you’re you’re you’re you’re needing to come back now. And he said, Every second you waste on a hater is a second that you’re taking away from everybody else who needs you. And when he said it and framed it that way, I was back super fast, because…

Josh 58:47
I love that man.

Pat 58:48
I love that, you know, and and I eventually got the courage to reach out to this person and asked him why he did this. And just to basically tell him that was really hurtful and that I was, you know, falling into a deep, dark place. And I wanted him to understand really what was happening for me mentally. And he apologized. It was a very short message back but he said, You know, I’m sorry. I just thought it’d be a you know, you’re very popular out there. And I thought it’d be an easy way to get traffic back to my website.

Josh 59:17
Oh,

Pat 59:19
Bro.

Josh 59:20
Man. Yeah, bro. I’m sure that wasn’t the word that popped into your head.

Pat 59:25
Yeah, bro is not the word. But that just I am grateful because in my learning about how the brain works and how emotions work and such, I started to feel really sorry for this person. Yeah, like that something must have happened in this person’s life to believe that this is okay. And I started to get worried about this person. Now, I never wanted to talk to this person again. But that made me feel empathy for trolls and haters who come back to me now, and there are many still. And the more you put yourself out there, the more vulnerable you are, the more you You’re going to attract certain kinds of people who may have had things happen in their life and they just see you as an easy target. And I’m very grateful that I have a tribe and a community who steps up too often, you know, back them away before I even see them. But that hurt me a lot. But it taught me a lot too. And I’m grateful for that message that I got from that, because I’m now able to pass it on to my son, who is on YouTube has gotten some haters and knows how to deal with it now and comes from a place of empathy too. So,

Josh 1:00:25
Boy, what an important message man for social media for anybody. I mean, yeah, hurt people hurt people. I was just gonna say that, because I’ve heard you say it before. I love that that obviously, I mean, you just gave me goosebumps with what I do. Being on YouTube and stuff like that. Don’t have too many haters. But every once in a while, man, that was awesome. Bad. Gosh, has been so great. I have one more huge question for you. Like, I think all entrepreneurs and listen to this, before I asked that, though, where would you like my audience to go to find you, you can find Pat Flynn everywhere. Is there maybe a book that you would point them to? Is their, you know, certain podcasts or resource? Where would you like my audience to go?

Pat 1:00:59
Thank you. Well, since you’re listening on the podcast app, potentially the easiest thing to do would be to go and subscribe to the Smart Passive Income podcast, whatever app you’re in right now. That’d be great. You can also check out my book Superfans, which I think every entrepreneur, especially somebody who has clients should read to help provide the best experience so that you get not just referral traffic, but you get these people continuing to want to support you in all different kinds of ways. Again, super fans available on Amazon, and all other places. And you can just find Pat Flynn on YouTube.

Josh 1:01:26
Awesome. I’ll have that all linked along with some of the links that you mentioned, from books and stuff. My last question. Again, this is I think every business person needs to think about this. What is your favorite episode of Mandalorian?

Pat 1:01:39
Oh, dude, the last one. I’m not gonna reveal what happened at the end. But the last one in season two was incredible. unexpected. It gave me goosebumps I literally cried after I was on social media for like three hours talking about it with people it was awesome. So the last one because of there’s a very cool thing that happens that was unexpected.

Josh 1:01:57
And I mean, by the time by the time this comes out, I don’t think that will be a shocker. Yeah, my wife and I cried at the end as well. I don’t have to say I’m just gonna say it the Boba episode. That’s up there that’s out there for me.

Pat 1:02:09
So all the time. So I mean, if you’re watching this on video, or you happen to be ever see me on video, you’ll see a Mandalorian helmet right behind me. So yeah.

Josh 1:02:16
I’m right there with you man awesome dude, thank you for your time. Thank you for this just incredible, incredible set of lessons that you’ve dished out. Thank you so much coming on, so pumped to have you as a mentor. Man, thank you so much for everything you’ve done.

Pat 1:02:57
Thank you.