104 – NHL Broadcaster Bob McElligott on How to Get Better on Camera

Full Transcription

Bob 0:11
To kick off a pass in the neutral zone, Riley Nash on the left side, Emil Bemstrom, back over to Nash he shoots! AND he scores!! Riley Nash goes top shelf and buries it. And the Blue Jackets have themselves a two to one lead. Oh flapjacks on a ferris wheel.

Josh 0:35
Classic, absolutely classic. Welcome everybody to Episode 104, who you just heard, right, there was the voice of the Columbus Blue Jackets, the radio play by play announcer a Bob McElligott. For those of you who know me, you know, I’m a big hockey fan. And I’ve been listening to Bob for years, not only on radio, with doing the games, but also he is the host of the official Columbus Blue Jackets podcast, which is called CBJ and 30. And needless to say, I am so stoked to bring him on for the podcast today, to talk with you guys about two things primarily, getting better at communication and getting better on camera. These are two aspects of your business as a web designer that are going to separate you from the competition immediately. And guys, I’m telling you, they are crucial to your success, you need to know how to communicate from start to finish from the sales process, to onboarding, to working with clients to offboarding them. And as you know, probably no surprise what I’m gonna say next, because you’ve been following me for a while, you know, I’m a big proponent of getting on camera, when you’re comfortable on camera. And when you put yourself out there, you will build trust, you will build likeability, and you will close clients at such a higher rate than people who just stick to email, or other threads. It’s such a powerful means of communication. And it’s more important now than ever. So I wanted to have Bob on to talk about again, communication and getting better on camera. And wow, was he freaking awesome in this episode. We really dive into the weeds on how to better communicate. And it’s interesting because Bob is somebody who came up through the ranks and minor league sports and now professional sports as an NHL broadcaster, mainly on radio. So it was mostly his voice, he perfected his voice as you found out just from listening to him really briefly there. He’s a very entertaining communicator, and you have to be as a radio guy. But what’s really interesting is that Bob does more video than anything now. The podcast I mentioned is also a video show, he’s on video pretty much every day, so he’s gotten better and better and better on video. In this episode, he shares his tips, his tricks and his secrets to getting better on video, and getting better at speaking, which I’m still currently struggling with. So, again, for me, it was a great kind of fanboy moment to get Bob on the show, and I had a blast talking with him and come to find out he actually really enjoys teaching. So I could tell he really enjoyed this episode. And he really enjoys sharing what he’s learned about communicating and getting better on camera with you. And again, it’s going to help your business in so many ways. So super excited for you.

Josh 3:10
Now, speaking of communicating with clients, one of the best things you can do is have some sort of monthly contact with your clients to stay top of mind, to stay engaged with them. Because a lot of times clients will forget about you if they don’t hear from you. And one of the best ways to do that, apart from the recurring income you can build is with a monthly maintenance plan. It’s one of the best ways to stay in touch with your clients every month, even if they don’t actually actively talk to you, or you don’t send them a video every month, they at least see your name and know you’re working with them constantly. And it’s a great way to build likeability and trust and a deeper relationship with your clients. So right now, guys, if you’re thinking about launching a maintenance plan, but you’re not sure where to begin, or maybe you have a maintenance plan for your clients, and you’re ready to take it to that next level, I want to invite you to join my website maintenance plan course today. It’s open right now, it’s helped hundreds of students all over the world with building recurring income and being able to communicate better with clients and build that deeper relationship with which is key for your success. So if that sounds interesting, join that today. I can’t wait to help you build a maintenance plan. And without further ado, here is somebody who again, I’ve been hearing in my ears several times a week for over six years at this point. I was so excited to get him on the show Bob McElligott NHL broadcaster invoice of the Columbus Blue Jackets to get ready to get pumped because we have some fun in this one. Let’s dive in.

Josh 4:33
Bobby Mac, welcome to the show, man. It’s a pleasure and an honor to have you on.

Bob 4:39
It’s kind of nice being on this side of the microphone instead of you know, you asking the questions I have to answer we could reverse this thing. So I’m very excited about it. Thank you for the invite. I really I mean that I think this is I think it’s a great opportunity and I want to see what you do and learn about it. So looking forward to this.

Josh 4:58
Well, it’s really cool to have you on This is a different type of episode, I’ve been listening to you probably more than anybody else in the world for the past about five or six years whenever you started the CBJ and 30 podcast, which is the the podcast for the Columbus Blue Jackets. So I’ve been listening to you a lot over the years. So it’s really cool for me to talk with you one on one and have you on. But I view you as an expert communicator, I’ve actually learned a lot from you before I ever started my podcast. My podcast is about a year and a half old right now. I’ve really kind of gleaned a lot from you with how you talk and your approach to communication and you do often a solo podcast. And that’s not easy. Sometimes you have to talk to yourself for half an hour, 45 minutes that there’s some talent there. So I’ve been doing that as well with this podcast was solo episode. So needless to say, super excited to have you on and I’m excited to pick your brain as a professional communicator to share with my audience, you know, some things we can do to to communicate better and get better on camera and stuff like that. So before we dive in, I’d love if you could just let everybody know what you do with your role and as your job with the Columbus Blue Jackets.

Bob 6:09
Well, my title is the radio play by play announcer. But as you can imagine, I think in any line of work today, there’s not just one thing that everybody does, right, you’ve got to do multiple things, which for me, because I honed my craft in the minor leagues, and both minor league baseball and minor league hockey. You know, I’m used to doing numerous things from the time that I first got here in the fall of 2009, when they had me as the radio color analyst, I was also hosting the pregame show and the postgame show and the intermissions. Then when I moved over into the play by play chair, it’s not like anything stopped. There’s still web video that needs to be done here, whether it’s interviews, whether it’s features. So you know, I do all of those, I do the bulk of the web video stuff for the team. The podcast started, like you said, probably five or six years ago, you know, it doesn’t seem to me like it’s that old. But I remember when we first started it, we started doing it as a live YouTube show. That was like before live YouTube shows were cool, to be honest with you. But we were trying to do it around lunchtime in lunchtime. When you’re not in a pandemic and you’re in the normal season. It’s like the worst time to try to do something because the team skates at 1030 in the morning at home and 1130 in the morning on the road. And I would be in all these buildings on the road trying to set up some makeshift thing where my computer on top of a garbage can and yeah, right backdrop behind me, you know,

Josh 7:42
I kinda have to be honest, I forgot. I forgot. That’s how it all started.

Bob 7:46
I didn’t forget I remember being in New Jersey trying to frame up a shot with a computer on a garbage can going. What am I doing here?

Josh 7:53
Well, I remember you guys were right behind the glass sometimes and pucks would be whizzing by and you’d hear ping right right behind you guys. Yeah, yeah.

Bob 8:01
You know why you hear that? Because when they see you’re doing something by the glass, they miraculously hit the glass.

Josh 8:07
Oh, I’m sure you guys I’m sure you guys are great target practice for those.

Bob 8:10
Guys think that’s funny. But so, so yeah, now I do I do the the podcast. You know, we do that two times a week we do a radio show once a week. Jodie Shelley and I, and whatever else comes up. And and I’ll tell you, it’s funny that you want to talk to me about being on camera. because ever since a pandemic started, I’ve been on camera more than ever. And I’m sure that’s true for a lot of people. And you know, whether it’s just, you know, your meetings at work that used to be in a boardroom now are virtual meetings, and you got to be on a camera. So, so yeah, I spent a lot of time doing this, all my interviews, unfortunately, are no longer personal contact through this. And so you figure it out, and you find a way to make it work and you just pray for the days that things go back to normal. But But yeah, you can’t look at my title and say all radio play by play guy must show up on a game night and call the game and go home. Yeah, I was like that back in the 1970s. But 21st century, you got to be a jack of all trades now.

Josh 9:10
It is is is different, and I didn’t think about that. But with the pandemic, you have been on video nonstop. I mean, I see you across my feed every day and even the podcast CBJin30 podcast is video.

Bob 9:23
Video show we figured why not are sitting right there anyway, right.

Josh 9:27
It’s cool to be able to repurpose media, like that’s what I’m doing with my show now, because my solo episodes are still audio, but these interviews are video as well. And now I’m working on splicing them up to make little clips and stuff like that. So there’s a lot of value in that. But that’s an interesting point, Bob. And I think my audience of web designers and entrepreneurs have found this as well, that not only are they on camera a lot more just because you have to be in this pandemic world where you’re on zoom all the time doing calls. A lot of people are doing short videos now which I highly recommend all my students do. To get on camera, to send videos to clients and to keep engaged. And it’s really interesting, because a lot of web designers get into web design, and they’re like, I didn’t sign up to be on camera, I just wanted to build websites. But you find out in this day and age, if you’re going to run a business, you got to be able to communicate and being able to do it on camera, and articulate your points is huge. So, see, let’s dive into it. Man, I actually wanted to find out. I’ve a question for you. And maybe this could maybe add some context for everybody. But, you know, again, you’re great on camera very well spoken. Have you always been like that? Like when you were growing up? Did you talk a lot? or How did you get into media? Did you have to, like really work to to get better at this? What did that look like for you? Or has it been a natural kind of talent for you?

Bob 10:46
I think I did talk a lot. I as I look back on my life, I think that I’m very fortunate that I knew at an early age what it was that I wanted to do. And I’ve tried to make this short for you. I don’t want to bore you to death with this long story. But so I was born in Pittsburgh and when I was just one my parents moved east to Pittsburgh to the Laurel mountains of Western Pennsylvania. And they did that because that’s where they had met. Their grandparents had cottages in the same development. That’s where they met so they didn’t want to live in the city and raise a family they want to grow up in the country.

Josh 11:21
Side note that was Somerset, Pennsylvania, right? That’s correct. That’s, I have my aunt, my aunt lives there. So I know the area a little bit.

Bob 11:27
That’s crazy, small world. So yeah, so they wanted, they wanted to raise their family in the country. So where I grew up, we had a small house on seven acres, and there weren’t very many. There weren’t very many, you didn’t have neighbors really, and there weren’t that many kids around. So when it came time to go to school, there was a lady that drove a 15 passenger van and she circled up and around the mountain where we live. And there were only enough kids that you know, to fill up that van. And then she would drive it back down to the main road. And then we would meet the regular yellow school bus and get on the bus and go to school. So and I know this, this story already makes me sound really, really old. But oh well. But when we when we were in this van, she would always be listening to the radio every morning. And she listened to Katie k out of Pittsburgh. And Jack Bogle was the morning guy there at the time. And I used to listen to that. And I used to think these guys are having so much fun, this must be the greatest job in the world. Because they were just always laugh and carrying on and joking and, and that’s what I wanted to be. I wanted to be a morning radio guy. That was, that was my first thing to do. Then, a little bit later, I got a job at the local station in Somerset and I was working Saturday mornings from five to nine. And I found out I really didn’t want to be a morning guy. Because to turn, you know, to be on at five o’clock you can’t get there at 4:55 right? So, but anyway, so I knew I knew that I wanted to be in radio, I love sports. And you know, I played sports in high school, and primarily baseball was my thing. And, and by the time I realized that I was not a very good hitter, and my baseball career was going nowhere. I figured that, you know, I would always listen to games on the radio, growing up baseball games, hockey games, football games. I was listening to games, of course, they were less on TV at that time. So radio was the preferred medium. Whenever if there was a baseball game on, I used to remember fighting with my mother on a Sunday afternoon to stay inside and watch a pirates game if it was nice outside because she was always like, get out of here. You’re not sitting in here and watching TV. It’s a nice day. And I’ll be like, come on, I want to Can I watch the game because my dad would always say watch the games on TV, watch what they do, watch how they carry themselves. And that’ll help you to become a better player. So she would begrudgingly let me sit there and watch the game. But I don’t know where she would hang out. But I’m telling you the minute the last hour was recorded, she was right there shutting off that TV and throwing me out of the house every single time.

Bob 14:00
But so when I figured out that, you know, I wasn’t going to be a player of any kind into college or anything like that. You know, I figured out how to merge the two things that I loved. And the two things I wanted to do. I wanted to be in radio, I wanted to play sports. I wasn’t going to be good enough to play sports. Maybe I could do the radio thing. And I ended up getting a part time job at the local station in town because I knew that going through high school they did all the football games, basketball games, wrestling meets and you know everything. So I went in there with the hopes of getting to do sports. I started as a one day a week, disc jockey. I go into 330 on Saturday afternoons, and I would play country music from 330 to five. And then I would play pre recorded stuff from five until 11 do a sign off newscast and that was the end of my night.

Lo and behold, when we got done, he said, he just looked at me and he said, You know what, you do this better than a lot of guys that are doing it for a living right now. – Bob

Bob 14:49
And eventually, like three or four guys got sick our we’re on vacation and they needed somebody to do a football game and and I got my opportunity and you know that led into doing more and, you know, then I was fortunate enough, it would have been, I don’t know 90 91 92 something like that. The Pirates they had this offseason, it was I know now it’s a season ticket campaign is what it is. But they had in February, they would have this gathering at the convention center. And they would, you know, bring in players for autographs and all of those things. One of the things you could do is you could you could pay to do play by play with one of the actual announcers. And I went one year and I did it. And I did it with Jim Rucker, who was a former pitcher. And you know, that was fun. And that was the end of it. I went back the next year, and they had it again. So I paid to do it again. And I and I got one of their play by play guys. And I was like, mad because I wanted one of the former ballplayers one of the color analysts, you know, so it would be real to me, even though it wasn’t real. But the guy who was working with his name was Ken DeVonish. And we’re looking at a, you know, video of an old game against the Dodgers, and I’m calling it and he’s not saying much of anything. And I’m sitting there thinking, why is he not saying anything? I must suck at this, I must be terrible at this whole thing. But lo and behold, when we got done, he said, he just looked at me and he said, You know what, you do this better than a lot of guys that are doing it for a living right now.

Bob 16:18
Oh, and he had me go back and do it with Steve Blass who was color analysts. And you know, he had me go back and do another one with him, so that I could have a good demo. And he was the one that taught me how to get involved with, you know how to get in touch with minor league baseball teams. It was pre internet at that time. So he told me about the baseball America directory, which listed every team in the country and had their, you know, the contact number for the general manager and all that stuff. So that I started sending out stuff like that. But my break in pro sports came when, in 93, when a new owner bought the Johnstown chiefs of East Coast Hockey League, and he wanted to do some new stuff. And one of the things he wanted to do was create a mascot. And so he was having mascot auditions and, and I went I audition for the job. And I got the job. And you know, it was simply just try to get a foot in the door and let people know who you are. And, and I ended up getting an offer for minor league baseball that year. And I left in February and the owner of the team wanted me to come back in September when the baseball season was over. And I told him I needed a job. I couldn’t just work for 30 bucks a night, as much as I love that job. And he made me the director of group ticket sales. So I got in the office started working alongside the radio guy there in Johnstown. He had some high school games he had to do. It took me under his wing. We did High School games together, we eventually I started doing color on road games with him. And a couple years later, he moved up to the American Hockey League, and I took the play by play job in Johnstown. So after two years there, I got a chance to go to the American Hockey League. And right before the Blue Jackets came into existence, we affiliated with them in Syracuse, and, you know, eventually, 10 years later, I got a chance to come here to Columbus. So it’s, you know, and I can make that story way, way longer. Believe me. I know it was long enough for you.

Josh 18:08
Oh, no, that was a good summary of what was that decade about 15 year journey, something like that.

Bob 18:14
It’s a long time. It doesn’t seem that long today’s it did when I was going through it, you know?

Josh 18:19
Well, a couple of valuable points there already, though, Bob, as far as First of all, you did something that you were just kind of naturally good at. I think that was really interesting. That he said, You know, you’re actually really good at this. You’re better than guys. You’ve done this for a while. I think that’s a really interesting point. Because you found something that I imagine it It felt pretty effortless, right? Would you say you just I mean, I’m sure it took a lot of work. But, you know, I feel like once you do something that you just feel like doesn’t feel like work? Generally, that means you’re probably cut out to be pretty good at that.

Bob 18:51
Yeah. And it was for me, like, That day when I was sitting there calling that off a video. I had listened to so many games, I had watched so many games, I was just doing it like they do it. Because that’s what I knew. And and I thought I was doing it right because of that lo and behold, I was so look, whatever you do, let’s be honest. You’re looking to do it like people that you think do it. Well, you know, if you’re going to, I’m sure if you’re going to design a website, you’re going to go look at something that you think has done really well. You’re not going to go and say, Boy, this really stinks. Let me see if I can copy this right. You’re going to go and try to get the best example and go off of that. And that’s what I felt I was doing that day and and you’re right. I loved it. I you know, I’m I’m sitting you’re talking about a baseball game. And even though it was a game that was played a long time ago, and it wasn’t going on right then in there. For me it was in the moment I was on a stage. There were people standing there and they were listening. I had to get it right. I didn’t want to look stupid, who wants to look dumb when they’re when they’re up on a stage in front of people and when you’re sitting next to a pro Who’s in the field? You know, it was, it was a challenge for me just I just wanted to prove to myself that I could do it. So that’s, that’s all I was thinking, I’m just gonna do it like these guys have done it. And I think I’ve listened to enough of these and I know what goes on. And and I don’t mean that arrogant or cocky, I just, you know, I was just trying to emulate what I knew.

Josh 20:23
Well, that’s a good point too, there’s, there’s a confidence that comes with something you know pretty well. So you know, if you didn’t know sports very well, and you went for that job, I’m sure it would have been a whole different ballgame. But the fact that you know it, you had a passion for sports, and I just liked it, you know, it sounds like he just, you know, like the idea of something that you already knew pretty well. And I think that’s what a lot of my students are finding with getting into web design and business is, the more they, they get to know about the processes and the systems. And I think, where most web designers struggle with sales and communication, because that’s something that’s a little harder to get to learn as a part, as opposed to just learning web design. So there’s kind of a bunch of different aspects to that, which I’m sure like you’ve experienced, you went from just play by play to more radio, more media and you learn you grow. And that’s what I’m excited to dive into here, too, particularly the video kind of stuff. The other thing you mentioned that I wanted to hit real quick, was that you got your foot in your door in the massively go for a mascot position, there’s some different ways to, to open up opportunities. And I think that’s a very valuable point for everybody to keep an eye out for, especially in the COVID era, because whether it’s getting on camera to host a webinar, or do a training for local clients, there’s all these different ways that you can really grow your business and make a name for yourself that are a little unorthodox and a little different. So I just wanted to make that point that that’s an interesting thing you hit on there, Bob, sometimes it might take a different route to get to somewhere and now you’re the voice of the Columbus Blue Jackets. So super, super cool story, man, I, I do want to hit on going from, you know, radio to video and the differences between that because this strikes a chord with me as a course creator, and now a podcaster and a lot of the media that I do because I started just for your reference doing tutorials, I taught people how to design websites. I was never on video, my face wasn’t on video I just talked. And I found out going from just voice with a screen to being on camera is a whole different ballgame. So when did video really come into play for you? Is that more of the past? What five years or so? Or when did video? What did you kind of go from radio to more video kind of stuff?

Bob 22:37
Well, when I was in Syracuse and the American Hockey League, before it was spectrum, it was Time Warner and they had an all sports station there. And we would do maybe 10 games a year on TV. And and then I did the triple A baseball there too. And we would do probably 10 I actually think we did more baseball games on TV. So that’s when I really started to make that transition because of that. And, and that was different than what it is now. I mean, now just like you’re saying, and just like we’re talking here, so many, almost everything is the video. It’s not just audio anymore. So that’s where I was getting broken into it. And again, when I told my story, I never said anything about going to college, because I didn’t I mean, that was my intent. And my grades sucked when I was a high school senior. And I couldn’t go where I wanted to go because I because my grades weren’t good enough. So I was going to take a year off, and I was going to go back and then I ended up getting you know, through part time jobs, one of them being the radio job. And I started to do what I wanted to do and, and I got extremely lucky. And again, that’s a long, long time ago, you I don’t think you can take that path today, as I did back then. So, so I wasn’t trained to do it. You know, I didn’t go through class to learn to do it. You just, you just did it, and you learn through doing it and going back and watching the game. And, you know, when it came to audio, I was comfortable with everything that I was doing. When it came to video, I would go back and watch it. And this is probably going to be true for the people that we’re talking to today. I would go look at it and I’d say how do I address the camera? Am I looking at the camera enough? Am I looking at my color analyst enough? Am I looking at him too much? Am I acknowledging my audience, you know, to make them feel like they’re there and like they’re a part of it. Because when you’re working with somebody, and if you’re constantly just turned this way listening to what they’re saying, and you’re not looking at the camera, you’re not drawing them in. So that’s what I would go back and I would study I would study those kinds of things. You know, it wasn’t the like the game part of it when when the game was on and what I was saying I wasn’t worried about that. I I know I can do that. But it was it was that on camera presence.

Bob 24:59
And the other thing For me, I do so many games by myself. And even today, I do so many by myself, the adjustment to me is when I’m working with somebody else is to pull back and make sure that they get the room that they need, then on video, you know that like in my job on radio, I’m the star on radio, because I’ve got to paint a picture for you, I have to constantly talk to tell you what’s going on. If I’m doing TV, it’s different, my color analyst is going to be the star there because you can see what’s happening, I’m still going to tell you and I’m going to identify players and all that. But you know, there I always say like this, I am the who and what color analyst is the how and why. So when you’re doing TV, you can cut back a little bit on the who and what, because there are pictures, but the how and why is so important, especially with replays and breaking it down like that. So, you know, when I do TV, I view myself as a traffic cop, I’ve got to get it from this commercial break to this commercial break. And I’ve got to do it, making my partner look like a star because you know, they played the game. And that’s, you know, they are the star. So I got to make sure that that they are like that. But yeah, the on camera stuff for me really started there doing those games. And then of course, when I came here, the web video was just it was still in its infancy. But it was getting bigger, and it was getting bigger every day. So I found myself on camera a lot ever since I arrived with the blue jackets. And again, it’s still that same thing. I still go back and I look at the clips and I go tie wasn’t straight. Why didn’t anybody tell me? Couldn’t the camera guys said to me I needed to adjust that. I was looking at a reflection in a piece of glass. I thought it was fine. It wasn’t. Why did I look over there? I’m looking off camera. There’s something going on over there. And I shouldn’t have been looking at it. And I was hoping it wouldn’t show but it does. You know all of those things. So they may sound trivial until you start doing it and you go back and you review your own video, you’re going to very quickly figure out the things that annoy you. And if they annoy you, they probably annoy the viewers. So you’ll learn to clean them up.

Josh 26:58
Probably tenfold. Yeah, I’ve totally found that to be true. That’s a lot of good points. You just set in there. I was gonna ask about reviewing yourself looking at yourself from even you know, just a recent video two years back…

Whether you like to see yourself on camera, whether you like to listen to your voice, that doesn’t matter. It’s you know, the perception that you’re putting out there to your clients. – Bob

Bob 27:08
I don’t enjoy it by the way, Josh, I don’t enjoy it. I don’t I don’t enjoy it. You know how people always say, if you play back something they recorded, they go, I don’t like my voice. Look, I don’t have a problem with my voice. I just don’t want to hear it. I hear it in my head all day long. I don’t hear it again, I need to hear it. But I don’t want to. I don’t enjoy it. But But these things are, are, they’re really so important to go back and review it. Whether you like to see yourself on camera, whether you like to listen to your voice, that doesn’t matter. It’s you know, the perception that you’re putting out there to your clients.

Josh 27:38
Yeah, and I found so for folks who are not in a media type of world, or they don’t again, they’re web designers. Maybe they’re starting their own business, and they feel like oh, wow, I actually need to get better on camera and communicate can be very, very daunting. But I have found, particularly when it comes to reviewing yourself, first of all, I don’t want anyone to be discouraged. Like if you do a test video, and you’re just god awful, I don’t want you to be discouraged. Because I will tell you from you know, from my experience, I was terrible on camera just a few years ago, I have a web design club, a membership with a lot of folks and I just did a presentation on how to get better on camera. And I showed two videos from a few years back. One was one of the first videos I did for like a training video where I was on camera and off camera, I’d be smiling and be myself. And as soon as a camera was on me and the light was on behind it, I would stiffen up and I would my with my smile would drop. And I would become very robotic and just nervous. Like it was like the nerves took over and prohibited me from being myself. And it took just repetition and doing things over and over to kind of loosen up. And now I can talk on camera like I would talk if you and I were sitting in a coffee shop, which hopefully we could do one day after COVID. So it gets better. Now I looked at a video from years past like probably five or six years ago, I did a video for the Chamber of Commerce here in Grove City when I just started my business, and they put me in a swivel chair. And one thing I learned was if you’re sitting in a chair like this, because I’m swiveling right now, a lot of times when you’re getting going you don’t think about the little things, but you just said, Bob, it’s the little things that can make a big impact of reflection and a glass or a swiveling chair. I mean, I was swiveling. I don’t know how I didn’t fall over. I was sweating. I was nervous. So I was totally my fingers. And I was swiveling and I I found that a lot of guys for married guys. We play with our rings. So I really had to work on that as well. I would play with my ring while I was talking. So little stuff like that, you know, I learned to judge myself and get over and learn from it. More importantly, I didn’t try to get down on myself but I learned from it. So I say all that to say hopefully that’s the same mentality everyone will have is you do a video. If you’re terrible. That’s okay, learn from it. And then just get going. I want to ask you what are some of the tips you have for getting better? I mean, for me, it was repetition. It was just playing just doing it over and over. Is that one that you would echo Do you have any other tips for getting better on camera in particular?

Bob 29:59
That’s the biggest one It’s the more you do something, the better you get at it, right. And as you said, if you do the first one you look at and you were terrible, you’re supposed to be terrible. This is not something you do on an everyday basis, you’ve got to learn, you’ve got to practice. It’s like, you know, if you’re working out, or if you’re playing sports, when they talk about muscle memory, this is the same thing. You have to go through it and you have to learn. You have to learn as you just said, to be yourself. And that sounds so weird. But it’s true. I work with a lot of students, I go over to the video production class at Bishop partly high school here in Columbus, I work with kids at The Ohio media school as well. And there when I, when I go into the high school, it’s kind of touch and go, right, because they’re their high school kids, and you don’t want to scare them off. But at that school, in particular, they all have to wear a lanyard with an ID on it. And I saw more than one person doing a report. And as you just said, They’re, they’re grabbing ahold of that, and they’re playing with it the entire time. Right. And they have no idea they’re doing it. And, and I saw right away, and I’m like, Listen, watch this. I am so distracted by what your hands are doing. I’m no longer listening to what you’re saying. Okay, so, yeah, you’ve got to figure out what’s comfortable for you, you can talk with your hands, that’s fine. But don’t, don’t constantly be be moving. You said whether it was swiveling or whether you’re moving your hands and, you know, grabbing your shirt playing with your ring, whatever it is, it will distract from the viewer. So you’ve got to so sometimes I would say early on, especially look at it yourself, and see what you get that annoys you, or that you need to get better at. But play it for somebody else and play it. You know, I would say played for somebody that’s close to you, that’s going to be honest with you. And, you know, don’t pick out things to go, oh, Why’d you do that? You’ll go, Ah, I didn’t see that. So yeah, that’s really important. But But Josh, here’s what it really boils down to this. When you’re talking to the camera, and you alluded to this, you are more yourself, that camera is nothing more than one person. When you’re talking, whether this is audio or video, and whether there’s a microphone in front of your face. And you’re doing just audio or whether there’s a microphone and lights and the camera, it is the same principle. It is one person talk to it as though you are talking to one person. And I always tell kids, especially whoever you are most comfortable talking to in your life, whether it’s your parents, whether it’s a sibling, whether it’s your grandparents, I don’t care who it is. But get into that mindset, pretend that camera is that person, and pretend you’re talking to that person. Because when you do that, then you are you’re going to be talking to me through the camera, you don’t want to be talking at me, you want to be talking to me, because when you’re talking at people, they’re going to figure it out, they’re going to turn you off, whether they literally turn it off, or whether they turn it off in their brain. same result, right. They’re not listening to what you say if they’re not grasping it, if they don’t care what you’re saying, because you’re too busy fiddling with your ring and looking all over the place. And if you’re distracted, they’re distracted. So you and the camera right into it, and talk to that camera, like you’re talking to one person and to somebody like not somebody that you don’t like, obviously.

Josh 33:30
That that’s a great, great practicing tip for me that that became so true for me when I was in a networking group. And I was terrified to present at first, but I got better. And I got more comfortable with speaking in a small group. And as soon as I was comfortable and speaking in a small group, I thought why am I so afraid to get on camera because again, it still seemed like even though I got pretty good at communication, I could get my points across. And I’m a personal guy, I’m personable guy, I enjoy conversation stuff. I still was nervous on camera. And then it dawned on me just what you said, Bob, just however, I would talk to a group or a person, I just kind of have to imagine them behind the camera, like the camera is just the vessel that gets that message across to them. I know, I’m so glad that you said that. Because that was a huge turning point for me with how I communicate on camera was like right now I’m looking at a camera, but I’m talking about in the galgut. And I think one honestly one thing that’s kind of weird, is in the span of human existence. This is brand new. So it’s kind of weird. Like, it’s kind of weird that we can talk into this little device and you know, we’re being broadcast somewhere else. But that’s the way you have to look at it is somebody whoever you’re talking to envision them and I wanted to ask you to about, about that between talking to one person and talking to a group. Because when you do the play by play, you know, you’re already I don’t know what the numbers are, but your audiences to you know, 1000s and 1000s of people, whereas when you do cbj and 30 it’s a it’s a different approach to communication. How do you do that? Do you think you kind of envision who you’re talking to as to whether it’s gonna be a broad audience versus a smaller group versus, you know, a more intimate talk like, how do you how do you communicate that way? And how do you? How do you do you change the way you talk with different audiences?

Bob 35:18
No, I don’t think so. I think I’m, I think when I do a game, I’m trying to do it as though I’m just doing it for you. You know, and same with the podcast or whatever. I always, in my mind, well, I’m just talking, right? Yeah, but I’m talking like I’m, I’m talking to one person. And I want to follow up on one thing that you said too, about looking at the camera. case, in point, like, right now, I’m doing this on a tablet, and I know where the camera is on this tablet, okay? So when when you’re out there, and you’re doing your video, if you don’t have a separate camera, if you’re just using the camera on the device that you’re using, know where that camera is. And look at that camera, because I’ll tell you, like, Josh as you’re talking to me, and I’m looking at the camera, I see you in my peripheral vision, right, I’m not looking directly at the screen. And watching you as you talk. If I do that, my eyes are going to go down and be looking somewhere else. So whether you’re in a in a conference with people, or whether somebody is just watching back a presentation, if I’m looking into the camera, I’m looking at you no matter what, okay, I’m not distracted. And it’s very easy, because, like I can see every movement that you’re making, but I’m not focused on you specifically, it’s very distracting. You’ve got to mentally override What the heck you’re doing. So that you’re not looking down. But just think about it. Think about when you go back, when somebody goes back and watches it, do you want them looking at you, especially if you’re to the point you’re trying to sell something, you want to be looking into their eyes, right as you’re trying to sell it? Or do you want to be you know, off somewhere else looking at something else? And am I gonna trust you to buy that thing, if you can’t even look me in the eye when you’re talking to me about it, and you’re not even doing it on purpose. This is all just getting used to the surroundings, like you said, I mean, this is still it’s been going on for 10 months, but it’s still relatively new to many people. So that’s just one of the little tips. It’s distracting. It’s frustrating. You want to look at the other person, you want to see their facial expression and all of that. But you know, what is the end product when you go back and you play it back later, and you’ll watch it back later? It’s going to look so much better to you. And it’s going to look so much better to your clients if you’re looking right into that camera. But again, when I do again, Josh, I wouldn’t say the same thing. I talked just the same way when I’m doing a game, just like I’m talking to you. Right here. I never The only time I think about the size of the audience. In you know what I do? It’s the potential size. I have no idea. I never know. Like when I when I say to people, they can send me a tweet and tell me where they’re listening from I I’m shocked sometimes and how many come rolling in, right? Because I can’t see them? I don’t know. But the only time I’m ever concerned with the size of the audience is if I’m in a live setting, and I’m doing a live presentation in an auditorium or a classroom or something like that. That’s the only time I know. So there’s no need for me to change. Because I’m always just talking one on one, whether it’s conversation, or whether it’s game description. It’s really the same approach for me.

Josh 38:22
Well, I love that approach. I asked that question in almost a devil’s advocate kind of standpoint, because a lot of people ask me about that. They say How should I talk on a podcast versus sales video. And I always tell them just talk like you’re talking to one person generally. Now I’ll often imagine a group of people or a small group, but even the way I talked to a small group could be, you know, it could basically take that same approach to a one on one conversation. And I hope this is some encouragement to folks too. Because I realized I was great one on one with somebody, I would go to a Panera or something and have a sales meeting. And we’d it would be great. I’d be really comfortable. But again, as soon as I got on camera, I would get nervous. And then my mentality switched, when I realized just picture that person just like you said, Bob, just picture that person or one person behind the camera. That is a great approach to have. I think that’s absolutely key. And you’re kind of challenging me separately, because I look at the camera when I’m talking with my current setup. But I tend to look at you on my screen because my camera is off of my screen. So you’re challenging me and thinking maybe I’ll adjust my setup. So I’ll definitely consider that. So I’m looking at the camera constantly instead of looking at you while you talk.

Bob 39:30
Yeah, it’s just it’s just the appearance when you go back later, right? I mean, so you look in the camera when you’re talking to me, and then I started answering and you want to see me while I’m answering. So you look away. That’s fine where you are, but when you go and play it back, you know the perception is this guy even listening to his answers. Lucky keeps on looking away every single time. The other guy’s talking, right? And you and I both know that. Yes, you’re paying attention. In fact, you’re trying to pay more attention by looking off screen at where you Have this coming back at you. But the fact of the matter is it creates a false perception amongst the viewer and depending upon who it is, it could be distracting.

Josh 40:09
Alright, challenge accept accepted, I’m gonna, I’m gonna stare at the camera, the entire rest of the conversation. So we are seeing in a live case study experiment here, tips from Bob McElligott. Get on camera. So we’re gonna do that. Great stuff so far above any other ideas and tips on the camera, specifically, because I want to talk about radio and just getting your points across. But I think it’s very valuable to talk about camera because it’s so important. We talked about repetition, talking about looking at the camera and visiting who you’re talking to, do you have any maybe final tips on camera related stuff that other than distractions and things we’ve already talked about that might help?

Bob 40:44
Well, you know what, I’m not a I’m not a technical guy, as far as you know, whether you get an external webcam, or whether you use what’s already in the device that you have, or anything like that. I know plenty of people that are like that, they’ll be like, Oh, you gotta get this. I got this happen. Yeah, I tried to hook an external webcam up here. And then my color was all messed up. And I you know, I just get frustrated. So you know, the heck with it. Would you know it as far as what your surroundings like? I think you have a great setup there. I mean, the first time that you sent me a question for my podcast, I was like, look at this guy’s got a whole studio going on. Which is good in keep that in mind with the background that you have when you’re on camera. And I say that. For this reason, if you’re trying to talk to people don’t have stuff going on behind you, that’s going to distract them while they’re watching it. You know, if you’re sitting in front of a window, where there are people going by outside or cars going by outside, you know, it can be distracting look at look, if you watch the today show, or one of those shows where you know, they have the windows to the street, ever find yourself looking at those windows and go What is that guy doing?

Josh 41:53
That’s true. Yeah.

Bob 41:54
Right. And then and you’re, you’re totally like, I don’t know what they just said, because I was worried about what that guy was doing on the street. So you know, try to try to be mindful of where you are, and where you set up. And what you do. You know, when you get to a certain point, lighting is important. Because if it’s, if it’s shadowing, and again, I’m talking about if you’re trying to do a presentation, and you’re, you know, like you are Josh, if you’re talking to a group of people, or if you’re trying to do sales or something make, especially if you’re using it as a sales tool, never forget, the perception of everything that you’re bringing onto, onto the camera is factoring into your pitch, right? You know, the, the detail, and maybe I’m just talking for me, but when, when people reach out to me, whether it’s for advice, whether it’s to listen to something, whether it’s to try to sell something, whatever it is, I am automatically evaluating everything about them from the time that the conversation begins on right. Yeah, and and if it’s on video, then there’s even more evaluation. Because of those types of things.

Josh 43:04
I was thinking even from a sales perspective, if you send a video to a client a lead, and your desk is just a, you know, a shit show of papers. Is that client gonna trust that you’re gonna keep their information together? Have you got papers everywhere, and it’s just an absolute disaster. So even though…

Bob 43:22
It is right, I mean, it’s one of those people that thinks all man he’s got a mess there. So he must really be doing a lot of stuff, then sure, but you’re right on the other side, some other people are gonna go, Well, I’m gonna give this guy my stuff. It’s gonna get lost in that.

Josh 43:35
Right? Yeah, those are good tips. Oh, man. That’s great stuff. I have a couple detailed questions about speech and talking. Like I just did, I did a little what we call filler word, um, So, those right is a big one. I hear a lot of people in the entrepreneurial space. Now they say, right? Well, they’ll say, you know, blah, blah, blah, this this this right? They kind of ask you that that which is a filler word. I don’t know if I’ve ever heard you say a filler word. And the five or six years I’ve been listening to you for cbj and 30. So my question to you is, as it always been like that, or did you do any type of training to help you Nix those filler words? Because those can be very distracting as well?

Bob 44:15
Well, you’re very kind because I know I’ve used them and you’ve just glossed over them.

Josh 44:19
So yeah, just glossed over. Yes.

Bob 44:22
I Well, here’s the point. I, I don’t do it enough that you notice. That really is the point. And I can tell you this from working with students. I can pick out their trigger words or phrases, their go twos when they don’t know what to say, very quickly, because they are they jump out at you. Case in point I was working with a guy a couple of weeks ago. And I counted the number of times he said um, and he literally said um like 13 times in 32 seconds. Oh, wow. Because his brain and again, he was new at this, he was just doing it for the first time he was trying to do a show about college basketball. So he was doing something that he was passionate about. But he was trying to put his thoughts together. And he didn’t know it. I finally said to him, I said, I want you to stop that. I want you to back it up. Now, I want you to start playing it. And I stood right in front of them. And I went 1,2,3. And that sounds mean in maybe it’s mean that look, it’s just like coaching, right? You have to know who you’re talking to. You can’t just do that to anybody because somebody might get offended and, and not take it the right way. He did take it the right way. And I knew he would, because he wanted to get better. And he really honestly wanted to know, the things he was doing wrong. And we counted them. And he said to me for the next week and a half every time he did something, Bob, I really worked on getting the ums out of there. I think it really went down. And now he’s doing a show every week. And that is not a problem.

Josh 46:01
Oh, that’s awesome.

Bob 46:02
It’s just, it’s knowing again, you’ve got to go back and watch your stuff. You’ve got to listen to your stuff. Because those types of phrases are going to jump out to you. As you said, people saying right, that that jumps at you because you see it right away. In most cases. Those people have no idea they’re doing that. Yeah. And once they know, like, like you as a coach, you got to tell them, Look, you’re doing this, you got to stop it. I don’t care to come up with something different. It’s just like, for me doing a game when I, I filled in one time doing a hockey game in Johnstown, because the guy that was the regular radio guy had bronchitis. And he, his voice was shot and he couldn’t work that day. And he sat in the office, and he listened to the game. And I did the game. And when the game was over, I went downstairs, you know, I felt pretty good about myself, because I just did an East Coast hockey league game. And I, you know, I didn’t know if I’d be able to do it. And Doggone it, I just did it. And I got down to the office and he said, Hey, you really did a good job. And he handed me a piece of paper. And he had critiqued the game, he had broken it down while he was sitting there. And I couldn’t tell you how helpful that was for me. Oh, and here’s just one case in point. I said, the word moves all the time, when a guy was skating with a puck, he moves it on the right wing side, he moves it back to the middle, he moves it down below the goal line, he moves it to the blue line, moves, moves, moves, I didn’t know, I didn’t know how many times I said that. But then, that was a great example to me that you have to have more descriptive words, moves it, he slides it, he passes it, he throws it, he dumps it. You know, there’s so many different ways to say the same thing. And that’s going to be the case for the people that you’re talking to as well. If you have phrases that you always go to as your safe phrase, or your safe word, or your safe space, whatever you want to call it. You know, think of ways to say the same thing differently. Yeah, because even if you do that, it’s not going to jump out as much.

Josh 48:10
That’s a great, that’s a great, so just

Bob 48:12
just but but again, you don’t know these things. Until you go back and you honestly, self evaluate, you have got to honestly self evaluate, or it’ll continue. And if it’s something that is annoying people, it can affect your sales, it could affect the people that want you to talk to their group. And you will not even know it. And unless somebody points it out to you, I was fortunate somebody would, that guy cared enough about me to sit there and critique that game, and help me get better. I was doing his job, think about this. I was doing his job for the day. And he broke it down for me not to be a jerk, not to be like, Hey, I’m way better at this than you are to legitimately help me. So help yourself by listening to yourself by watching yourself. And as I said before, have somebody else that you trust, do the same thing for you and listen to the criticism, whether it’s from you or whether it’s from somebody else, don’t be offended. If you take offense, you’re not going to get better. Okay? You just need to suck it up. Figure out what they’re saying. And I say this to people all the time. And this is whether it’s coming from a coach from a boss, whatever, take the information, sort through it in your head, the stuff that you think is pertinent to you use it if there’s stuff in there that you think is extra or maybe that doesn’t really apply or Yeah, I knew that and you don’t need to tell me that I’ll you know, get rid of it. Yeah, simple as that. Take the information and sort out a bit you know what is best for you whether you want to hear it or not is not the point.

Josh 49:54
But it actually want to ask you about how to articulate your thoughts before doing a video here, but I I wanted to hit on a couple things you said there, which I loved. The filler word thing is tough because like you mentioned, self evaluation is key.

Bob 50:07
I think it is the toughest thing, to be honest with you, because you don’t realize you’re doing it.

Josh 50:12
I think in culture now, we’re just so used to hearing people say like, and and so that people aren’t as well spoken as they used to be, let’s just be very honest about that people used to really focus on communication and written word so much differently than now. However, there’s a really good opportunity for us, for those who can talk better and a lack of a better term, really stand out from people who dropped the ums and SOS non stop. For me, I joined a Toastmasters group, which for anyone who doesn’t know is a public speaking type of group to where you do presentations, you get better at speaking. And one of the most helpful things for me, Bob was basically what it sounded like you had was somebody give me a critique of my speeches. And in that in my Toastmasters group, we tallied every filler word. And there’s a bunch of different practices and methods for doing that. Some people would like pay $1 each filler word. So, you know, after a presentation, if I said, so three times, and I’m six times crap, that is my lunch, this much money right there, I’ve gone out. So that’s a pretty drastic approach. But there’s the ways to go about that. But I think that’s very valuable. Mark your filler words out. And one thing that helped me because then the question is, well, how do I stop that because it’s tough when, especially when you’re in front of a group. So I think first of all, being self aware, practicing by yourself is huge. What I found to be super helpful, apart from what you just said, Bob, which was adding more words to your repertoire, which is absolutely key, because you could put in different words there that aren’t filler words. The other thing is, you can just not say anything, there’s a lot of power in a short little break. Even that little one second break I just did right there. A couple years ago, I probably would have said this power in a break, um, you know, and then dove dove into something else. So just cutting out those filler words. And putting nothing there, I found actually gives people a chance to hear the thoughts and take it in. Because sometimes if you talk talk, talk, talk talk, and there’s no break. This is huge, particularly with what you do, talking by yourself all the time. But even what I do with videos, is that sometimes if you don’t give any breathers there’s no chance to think about what the person is saying. Did you ever have to, to experience that as you were doing play by play or anything you were doing?

Bob 52:28
Yeah. especially early on, because you feel like you have to talk all the time, right? You feel like what you just said. And here, I just did it. So you told you. And you don’t have to talk all the time. You can take a break, there can be a breather, and you’re right, I think you make a really good point. If you’re talking constantly, it starts to turn into droning. Yeah, especially if you’re in a seminar or you know how many people like to get into a work call, where somebody is just, you know, you have to log into it, and you have to be on it. And this person is talking and it just goes on and on and on. And they’re they’re not funny, which, by the way, I think is another really important part of speaking. I think you have to engage people. You don’t have to be a stand up comedian, but you have to make it interesting for them. I joke all the time and say that, I’m going to go up to the Josephinum and teach a prospective priest how to give a homily because there’s so many better ways they could get the message across today, right? First of all, shorter. Hello. Second of all, a little more interesting, and with a little bit more humor. And I’m not saying I’m just saying that because that’s how people listen, you know that? Yeah. Three minutes now has an attention span, right? So like, in that case, you’re gonna need

Josh 53:59
30 seconds for folks now and after 90. Yeah, yeah.

Bob 54:03
But so in that case, sure. You’re gonna you want to talk for five minutes or more? Well, you’ve got to bring people into it. And you’ve got to make it interesting for them. And so a little bit of humor is is never a bad thing. Even if it’s self deprecating humor, like I just did you and I said on. I said, Well, there it is. I did it. I told you. But it’s, it’s just again, to me, it all comes back to the foundation of just be who you are. Just talk how you talk except for as you alluded to really well. proper English, for lack of a better term, proper English. I was working with a guy last week he was doing a high school basketball game. And he said, they’re gonna bring the ball down the floor. And I said, Listen, you might think that I’m being a jerk, but they’re going to bring the ball down the floor. It’s it’s very simple and maybe Most people wouldn’t notice but you know, when you’re doing this stuff, be a pro. Yeah, do it to a higher level because people are going to respect you doing it at a higher level, especially in today’s world where people shortcut everything and you know, they talk slang and they’re not being proper about thing you stand out. When you do that. Yeah, don’t worry about looking like a prude or something like Oh, look at this guy. He’s just going to an not gonna. No it comes across in this venue. It comes across in this medium.

Josh 55:33
That’s a grand challenge. Yeah,

Bob 55:35
It is.

There was a quote, years back, I heard at a seminar that is stuck with me and that is “The quality of your life will depend on how well you communicate.” – Josh

Josh 55:36
It’s tough because I’ve it’s I think it’s a it’s a thin line to balance when you’re being yourself, but you’re also maintaining some professionalism. But that’s honestly it’s funny. You mentioned that Bob, I didn’t think we’d go here. But that’s been one of the most biggest challenges for me over the past. Probably six months, is now that my podcast is growing. Had one of my students, Mariela, shout out to Mariela, who listens frequently. She’s learning English. And she said that my podcast is one of her tools for helping early learn English. And I’m like, oh, man, first of all the pressures on me and I, I’m notorious for making up words when I splice them together or mix something where I’m not sure if that’s, that’s for sure a word. So I thought you might want to do that cautiously. But it has honestly and challenged me to cut out the filler words to communicate better, and to watch my slang and also to pronounce things more clearly, I tend to talk a little faster and muddle some kind of muddy some words up together. So just the idea of slowing down and talking a little more clearly has really helped me and I’m telling all the stuff we’re talking about. I hope everyone’s realizing this is absolutely crucial for sales and talking with clients and everything on a day to day basis. There was a quote, years back, I heard at a seminar that is stuck with me. And that is the quality of your life will depend on how well you communicate. And I love that quote, because I was like, oh, not only is that so true in business, but for anyone who has been married or, you know, has a family, I think that’s probably very, very true, or you realize

Bob 57:16
Communication is modeled anyway.

Josh 57:20
Yeah, but man was that like the most truest type of statement, whereas like, I mean, it’s ever even just, you know, how you phrase your, your message on your website, if you don’t communicate that, well, somebody is gonna leave. So in a sales meeting, or in a presentation, if you don’t communicate well, concisely, they’re gonna tune you out. So I love that quote, it’s, it’s been something I’ve really taken to heart over the past few years. And I think everything you’ve talked about, Bob has has helped us with that with getting video and I want to be respectful of your time. I know we’re going on an hour here. Got to make sure I get you out in time for the for the game tonight as we’re recording this, but…

Bob 57:53
I want to I just want to interrupt you for one second. We’re talking about how you’re a fast talker. If you are a fast talker, and you are right, you’ve got to slow down. I work with a guy who we have on as a guest, frequently on intermissions. And he’s a fast talker, and he knows it. And I tell him the same thing every time will you just slow down? Because what you if you’re a fast talker, keep this in mind. If you just back it down slightly. I’m not talking about this. If you back it down slightly, what’s going to feel slow to you is going to feel normal to the people that are watching you. Okay? So keep that in mind. If you are, if you are somebody that tends to really want to get to your thoughts really quickly, and you want to tell me everything that’s going on. Just get to your thoughts really quickly, and tell me what’s going on.

Josh 58:46
It was a great point because it feels slow for you. Like for me when I really settled in on that it felt slow. But then I realized I talked a little faster on camera because I was nervous because I was feeling a little nervousness. Well, what I realized that was really crucial. And what I tried to do was take that energy but use it as excitement and enthusiasm instead of speeding up and looking like a drone because I was nervous. slowed it down. It felt slow for me. But then when I listened back to it going back to the self evaluation thing, it did sound normal. And if you you can take that energy. That’s another question I had for you. We were going to come into it but I was gonna ask you what do you tell people who are nervous? Do you recommend a channel channel it differently? I know it’s easier said than done. But again, for me, I took my nervousness and I have learned to use it for enthusiasm and excitement rather than, you know, paralyzing fear. there any tips on dealing with nervousness?

Bob 59:43
Yeah, I think that well, first of all, I think the biggest tip is that whole get relaxed, just envisioning that you’re talking to one person so you’re not worried about talking to a million people right now. Oh my goodness. Okay. To me, that’s always the first step. But the other thing is it what you You said now you you channeled it into trying to be more enthusiastic. I would say inflection inflection is such a big part of these presentations, and how you do them. So if you’re, if you’re nervous in sometimes this is a double edged sword because I don’t want to give people too much to concentrate on because if you do that it can add to their nerves. But let’s say you just pick out one thing. And if you’re one thing is, hey, that cameras one person, okay? That’s what I want you to concentrate on today. Is that camera being one person or maybe it is, Hey, don’t don’t drone today, let’s, let’s concentrate on better inflection today being a little bit more energetic. I think sometimes, if you give them one thing to work on, it distracts from their nervousness because they’re thinking, Okay, I want to do this. So if you give them four things, then the nervousness gonna shoot through the roof, right? Sure. So again, it’s just give them a little at a time, if somebody can handle two or three things, okay, fine. But give them a little bit of time, distract from the nervousness, and work on this. And if working on inflection, then has them talking faster. Let’s just say let’s say one, as you’re trying to fix one thing, it affects another thing, okay, fine. Because now at least you can say, Alright, listen, all is not lost. Here, we’ve accomplished this. So the next time we’re going to take this, we’re going to take the same inflection. But now we’re going to slow this down just a little bit, we’re going to put this all together. Again, it’s in many ways, it’s like, it’s coaching. Well, it is coaching, it’s life coaching in a way. But it’s just like, when you’re coaching in sports, there are going to be mistakes made. How can we minimize the mistakes? How can we get people to learn from their mistakes. And for the nervousness, I, again, I am just such a big believer that if you can envision that you’re just talking to one person, and it’s a person you trust, that takes a lot of that edge off. Not all of it with some people, but it takes a lot of it off. And then you know, just give me a little distraction, what it is, concentrate on working on this, I don’t want you to do anything else different. But think about this. And before you know it, or before they know it, they’re gonna go back and watch it and say, I did it. And really, as a coach, that’s where you want to get to right? You want them to go, Wow, well, first of all, you want them to say, well, you were right. And secondly, now really, firstly, you want them to believe in themselves, your job is to help them to believe in themselves. They can do this, they can do it well. And then you can just start working on every little part of it. So if you’re nervous, it’s understandable. You know, pick, pick something you want to work on, on that particular day and just knock away at it, you know, one piece at a time, until you get to where you want to be.

Josh 1:02:53
I love the one step at a time approach that I think that’s the best way to go about anything in life pretty much because yeah, we’ve covered a lot of ideas and tactics here. And if everyone tries to do all at once it’s your mind’s gonna explode. So one step at a time.

Bob 1:03:07
Listen to your first video, you’ll never do video again. And you guys are idiots and that’ll be the end of it.

Josh 1:03:13
Right? Yeah, but that one step approach reminds you of a quote you just recently had was a trip the Hurricanes Yeah, Trip Trace my play or color now analyst. And I love to quote he said in that he said do less better. I think that’s the perfect quote, to take this and make it actionable. You know, just one, one week, try one video. Picture somebody instead of the camera. The next week, count your filler words and check out your filler words, the next week after that, look at your motions. Look at your hands. Don’t do your swivel. I think everyone just took you know, one step at a time. That’s a great approach. And then just like me, the more you do it, the more you get comfortable before you know it. People are asking you how to get better on camera and you’re like, Oh my gosh, I have gotten better on camera. Look at this from you know, Josh from seven years ago. I’m swiveling. I’m talking super fast. I don’t know how the heck I started the business back then. And did some videos on ally anyone bought from me?

Bob 1:04:07
But luckily, nobody knew better than Josh. So like today, now they’re gonna pick all that apart, right? Yeah, you came along at a good time.

Josh 1:04:13
A perfect, perfect. Well, Bob, man, this has been awesome. I want to be respectful of your time here. This was a blast to get a chance to talk with you and dive into some of these tactics and strategies for communication and just speaking better. Again, I think we really made a lot of good points about not only from a business perspective, but just from a life perspective, just being able to communicate better and really being cognizant of how we talk and how we communicate because it really is a law star. I’ve been really challenged by that. Over the past few years. I think even with CBD and 30 with your podcast. It’s interesting to see people come out of their shells with sending videos in and getting voice questions. I know I love that you’re pushing that. What was really funny is now I send you a video question frequently for the show and I’m super comfortable but even last year, I was a little bit nervous to send one to ya. So even just within a year, I feel like I’ve made pretty good strides with that. And I would encourage everyone just to keep at it. So I love that man. Do you have any maybe like a final thought? Or maybe a last word of encouragement to people who want to get better on camera and know the importance and are just, you know, what? The one some encouragement maybe they could refer back to?

Bob 1:05:22
Yeah, well, first of all, I want to say thanks to you, because it is people like you that send the videos in, in help other people to, to get courage to do that. And and you’re right, it’s, it’s starting to come along more for me on the most recent episode, I think I had four voice questions. And, and I think that’s important, because to me, it’s like doing the talk shows, right? Calling shows that I grew up my entire life listening to call in shows, you know, people pick up the phone, but then you ask him to record something and send it to you. And it’s like, a total foreign concept notes, the same thing. It’s the exact same thing. The only thing is you could play back and listen to it and say I sound stupid, don’t worry about that. Just record it and send it, it’s all good. It’s all fine. But the final thing is what we’ve talked about here, the biggest thing to get better is repetition. And as you said earlier, record a video, you don’t even need to do it for a presentation. But you need to practice and you need to do it. So pick a subject and do it. And go back and look at it and see what you think and be again, be honest with yourself, let somebody else look at it. And you don’t even have to have somebody else to look at it until you feel that it gets to a point where you are good with it. You don’t have to give the first one to somebody, you don’t have to give the second one to somebody, get it to where you’re happy with it and you feel you’re doing a good job and then give it to somebody. Because they will very quickly tell you you’re not doing as good of a job as you think you are. And that’s going to make you better. Again, what’s the saying? You’re never as good as you think you are. And you’re never as bad as you think you are. And that is absolutely true. Yeah, in this area. It’s just something that’s new to you. It’s not something that you’ve done in everyday life up until now, it’s going to take practice, it’s going to take repetition, and it’s going to take willingness to change, and to work and to communicate. And if you are willing to put that time in and that effort in. This is like as you said, Josh, this is like anything in life. If you’re going to put the time and effort into it to get better, you’re going to get better. And if you just want to turn on your camera and knock something out, then you know, you’re going to get what you get. So it really is up to you. There’s nothing that we can say that’s going to make you better, we can give you tips to get better. But it’s really going to be up to you to put these things into play and into practice, and do them. And if you do them, you’re going to get better. And and I have so much enjoyed talking about this, like when you asked me to come on. And you know, you said I think you’re a great communicator, I’d like to talk about that. I thought, this guy’s just being way too nice. Like I don’t what am I? What am I going to tell anybody. But as we’ve gone through this, and we broken it down. I don’t talk about this. It’s funny, I talk for a living. But I don’t talk about how to talk unless I’m instructing students. And and you’re right, there’s an art to it. And I’m not saying I’m an expert at it. I learned stuff every day it every day that I do it. I’m still doing repetition. I you know, I’m doing it. Because number one, I have to number two, I’m getting paid for it. Actually, I think it was a reverse. But anyway, it is. It’s something that I’m doing all the time. And I’m still learning and I’m still trying to be better at it. And it’s fun to talk about. So if anybody has questions, if you get questions after this and people want to know, specific things, reach out to me or have them reach out to me I what I found is, by accident, I found this I love to teach because I didn’t know that I could teach and and I guess I can to some extent, just from the experience that I have in life, so I really appreciate you giving me a form.

Josh 1:09:14
This is great. Bob, I would be the first one to sign up for McElligott communication one on one. I would love to see the website course. Yeah. Hey, I got a bunch of people. We can hook you up. Yep. No, it’s great though. I’ve really enjoyed this talk. Man. This has been a blast that and I mean, look, let’s just call it what it is. You are a professional communicator and one of the top levels you could possibly communicate at I mean, you’re the voice of the Columbus Blue Jackets and NHL team that’s up there. I mean, there’s you know, that’s that’s pretty freakin cool. So, you know, it was honored to pick your brain about this stuff. I think a lot of this was very practical, practical and actionable. And, man, I got a kick out of this and I’m super excited to hear how this is going to help everybody. I just wanted to follow up with a final thought on your final thought you just said it. Repetition, you have to do it, you can learn and you can watch. And you can hypothesize things. But until you actually do it, it’s not gonna matter. And we just saw Jack’s game where Patrick line a had to absolute nasty bombs of one time or shots. Do you think Patrick, when he was a kid had that shot, probably not, he had to go out there and work at it over and over and over and over again. So there’s my hockey analogy for everybody, work on your camera one timer.

Bob 1:10:28
And keep this in mind, too, if we were having this conversation, when I broke into this business a long time ago, to get on camera would mean what you’d have to go buy a video camera, and you have to figure out how you’re going to set it up. And you would have to make sure that it was turned on. And then you would have to get out to what you thought was a good spot to stand in front of it. And not knowing if your shot was framed or not. Okay, here’s my point. In today’s world, you can take your phone, you can do a video, you can take your tablet, you can do a video, you can take your computer, you can do a video, you can do it with a cheap camera, you can do it with an expensive camera, it doesn’t matter. But you can do whatever you want. So much easier today. So Josh, when you’re talking about the repetition, and just do it, you can do it anywhere. It’s it’s not a major production as it would have been not that long ago. So it’s easy to practice. You know, we’re not asking you to go out and you know, book time at a television studio so that you can go in and practice in front of a camera, you can do it in the comfort of your own home, you can do it outside, you can do it in your car, it doesn’t matter, you actually own the tools to practice, maybe it’s not the tools that you want to put out your actual presentation when it’s all said and done. But the practice tools, he carry them in your pocket every single day. Don’t let them go to waste.

Josh 1:11:55
Well said. And that’s a big encouragement, because a lot of my students are like, well, do I need to get a big mic like you have and lighting? I’m like, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. Unless you want to do a fancy video show and podcast, which most people aren’t going to do. A computer is fine, maybe a webcam, if you want to get you know, fancy and maybe one light just to make sure depending on the lighting, it looks good. That’s it. And then again, the tool we have in our pocket now is the perfect practicing tool. And you can use that for social media and short videos and all kinds of stuff. So I totally back Yep, on that, Bob, listen,

Bob 1:12:26
if I can set up a basement studio with a with a mic, which is out of view, by the way. And I like how you have yours. And I I should probably set mine up like that, but I feel distract. So I just have it out of the way right now. If I can set it up with a mic with a couple of lights that I didn’t pay a lot of money for, with a green screen that I can change my background anytime that I want to, and put me somewhere else in any given moment. If a If an old radio guy can do all of that, and adapt to the world that we now live in, you can do it too. And many of you are younger, so you can probably do it a lot better.

Josh 1:13:05
Don’t forget, there’s hope for everybody. Yeah, I only use this for podcasts primarily, I still have a little blue Yeti mic, which isn’t as as legit, but it’s you know, sits on my desk for the average video. So yeah, hopefully this was…

Bob 1:13:20
$100 or less, you can get a mic that’s gonna make you sound a lot better.

Josh 1:13:24
Oh, totally.

Bob 1:13:25
You know, again, we’re not asking you to break the bank by any means to do what you’re doing. And almost everything I have in this studio saved for the tablet that I that I use, you know, was a online purchase. And not for a lot.

Josh 1:13:41
I didn’t think about that. But think you know, just what, 10 years ago, you wouldn’t have the ability to get a light and a decent mic for 100 200 bucks, you’d have to you know, imagine the CEO of a business recording a video had to go to a studio and rent time and then they’re pressured to get their message across because they’re, you know, paying by the hour or something that’s, that’s terrifying.

Bob 1:14:03
Lights at an auction for crying out loud. I literally I did two lights on the stand. I got them.

Josh 1:14:07
And I really thought I thought that cbj would take better care of you, Bob, but maybe maybe you can pull up.

Bob 1:14:13
They reimburse me but I just haven’t found it.

Josh 1:14:15
Okay. You know,

Bob 1:14:16
We’re in a pandemic we’re not selling tickets, Josh. I can’t just go on buy top of the line.

Josh 1:14:20
Oh, man, I would have been top of the line. Here you go, guys.

Bob 1:14:23
If I didn’t tell you that how would you know? And that’s really the point. That’s the point to any of your students that are out there. I mean, this is Yeah, it’s is it gonna cost you something to do it right. Sure it is. But is it going to cost you a boatload to do it, right? No, it’s not. It’s really not. So, you know, again, do your investment with getting better. That’s your first investment. Okay, that one costs nothing. That investment is your time and learning the craft. And then once you’ve invested that, if you feel like you’re good enough and if you feel like it makes sense for you, and if you feel like it’s going to help your business Then go make a little investment to get the tools to make it better. And then if it really takes off, and if you say, Well, I could do even better than this, and you have the money to do that, then go do that. But starting in all of this, you know, your time investment is free, you can step it up for just really not much money whatsoever. And then if you get big enough to where you’re buying expensive things, then Doggone it, you’ve done it right.

Josh 1:15:29
Well, and it’s an immediate payoff. Just quick example. I know apologize. I’m, you know, this is like my third or final thought. But one of my students just last week messaged me and I encouraged her to do a video with her proposal. So she sent over the proposal for this new website build. And she sent a video with it, she outlined the proposal and did like the front of the camera, quick video, and then showed the proposal. And they went for and they said they loved the video, they were like, Oh my gosh, nobody else sent a video. So if you start doing this stuff, again, like we talked about Bob, you will stand out from the crowd immediately. And that was an instant ROI for her because she just got several $1,000 contracts signed just off of you know, that video really helping her get her point across, and it just separated her. So it’ll be an instant ROI for anyone who takes this to heart and just implements things one at a time, which I love.

Bob 1:16:22
And again, in that video, I’m assuming that the person that was sent you got a chance to see her for her to hear her message coming from her. And you’re right, do it before everybody starts to do it stand out before it becomes common. Take advantage of that. Yeah, you know, let let people hear from you. And this is the way the world today, Josh, this isn’t like, if I get a if I get a video emailed to me about it doesn’t matter. What about if somebody’s trying to sell something? And there’s a video attachment? You know, the question is, am I gonna open it and look at it? Or am I not? I’m not saying why would they send this to me? I know exactly why they’re sending it to me. It’s the way the world? It’s what we do.

Josh 1:17:04
I mean, ask you, Bob,

Bob 1:17:06
Were in a new world now? Right?

Josh 1:17:08
Yeah, absolutely. I actually, why have you? I’m just gonna keep it rolling. I was gonna ask you this after, when I sent you the request to come on the show. I sent you a little video. What did you think about that? Was that different than anything you had seen before? Because I thought about just email. And yeah, hey, Bob, you want to come on my podcast? But then I thought, what have I said Bob a quick video? Because I think that would make a bigger impact. What did you What were your take? What was your take on that?

Bob 1:17:32
Well, My take is you’re right. And nobody ever has done that before. I always get, you know, direct messages through Twitter. And I always get to emails or you know, in some cases, somebody is able to track my number down, I get a text and I get asked, so you were the first to send a video asking me and yes, I was impressed by it. And it did make a difference. Because you know, what it shows me is like, I’ve already seen your setup, when you send questions for my podcast. But what it shows me is like I didn’t know, I know you as a guy that is sending hockey questions to me looking for an answer about what happened. I didn’t see you as a guy that is helping web designers and you’re doing a podcast and you’re trying to help people to to get better and communication. But with that video I did. Because you explained yourself, you reached out. And you asked me to go on and you told me exactly why and I’m able to, you know, look you in the eye and see what you’re talking about when when people can see your passion, whether it’s face to face, or if it has to be through this medium. That’s fine. It just it comes across. So when you sent that to me, I’m like, Well, first of all, you know, Josh didn’t just send an email he took a couple of seconds to, to record a video. And even though it’s obvious that you do that, and it didn’t maybe it didn’t take you as much time as it would take a newbie who’s just learning how to do it doesn’t matter. You still took the time. You probably trimmed it a little bit, you know on either end. So I know that takes time. So there was you cared enough to do that to ask me to do the show. So yes, that made an impression with me. And to be honest, I would have said yes to you anyway, but the video really, really helped you. It takes all the questions out quite honestly. Yeah. It just takes out all the questions. You know, when let’s just put it this way. You read a text, you read an email, how much? How much communication is or confused? communication is there in life because you can’t hear inflection or phrasing. When you’re reading something that somebody says.

Josh 1:19:44
Oh, that’s huge.

Bob 1:19:45
How many times I know I’ve called a person I’ve uh, what the hell was that? And they’re like, well, what Well, that’s not what I meant. Right? But doing it this way. There’s less question Yes. You know, there’s it’s it’s that was A personal invite, and it was like, Look, here’s what I do. And here’s what I’d like to have you on. And I know you’re busy. But if you had the time, it would be great. And it was just a genuine.

Josh 1:20:09
Two quick thoughts. I really appreciate that, Bob, that’s awesome to hear. I hope everyone sees that and hears this and understands, when you do that with a proposal or something with a client, it will help them to get to know, like, and trust you, unlike any other medium video is so powerful for that. Because then they’re like, you know what, I like this person. I feel good. And then they’re like, Oh, my gosh, this web designer sent me a video for the proposal.

Bob 1:20:32
How many times are people buying what you’re selling? Over buying you? If they’re not buying you, they’re not buying what you’re pushing? That’s That’s just a fact. I’ll tell you right now. And I’m, I’m terrible at that. Because I’m a quick judge of character kind of guy. And in very seldom Am I wrong. I have been wrong. But usually my I’m a first impression guy fair and unfair. So if my first impression is is not good, then oh, well, so yeah.

Josh 1:21:01
I think that’s a Midwestern. I think it’s a Midwestern thing. I feel the same way. I mean, I’m from Columbus here. So yeah, we’re wired the same way.

Bob 1:21:08
Yeah. But if you if on that video, you know, if I look at it, and and I believe you, you know, if you’ve sold yourself to me, okay, then what else? Are you trying to sell me? I don’t want to buy something of somebody, that’s a jerk. Because what’s going to happen is, it better be a really, really good product. Otherwise, I’m going to go find the same thing from somebody I like that. That’s just the bottom line truth when it comes to me.

Josh 1:21:35
100% especially nowadays, people want to work with people they like, it’s more important than ever, that people would much rather pay a little more to work with somebody they enjoy working with, then just look for the cheapest deal and work with a jerk. Totally. I mean, that’s lead as x that’s not an opinion. That is a fact. That is what’s going on right now.

Bob 1:21:53
Think about going to buy a car, right? If you get that car salesman that you know, as a car salesman, and you’ve read them right off the bat. Like they’re all trying to sell cars, but some of them are, you know, you get one of those old school. Hey, you gotta love this. I got something for you right here. This is the best. And this is totally loaded. And you’re gonna I don’t want that guy. I don’t care if he’s a top sales guy in the entire place. I don’t want Give me the new guy that scared to death to sell a car. And it’s just gonna be honest with me. I’ll take that guy, or gal doesn’t matter. Yeah. Yeah, it’s the same thing. It’s the same thing when you’re selling over video. It’s the the transparency, the believability, and the trustworthiness that comes across just by you being you.

Josh 1:22:37
I think that’s a perfect, perfect way to end it. Bob. Well said, Man, thanks so much for your time. This was an absolute blast. Hopefully, we can do this again sometime. And I hope to be able to take you out for a coffee or sometime one day, man, that’d be a blast. If we can get back to the arena one day.

Bob 1:22:50
That’d be great. I would, I’d totally be in for that. You don’t have to send me a video and ask you already did. So we’re good. Whenever that can go back to being the case. But again, thanks. Thanks for asking me to do this. Because especially during the season, and I get into my everyday routines and things that I have to do. It’s a really nice break. And it’s really fun to talk about not different things for me and talk about what I do every day in a different way. And if it can help anybody, and I hope that it does, so I hope that people that you deal with get something out of this. If I can help anybody in any way it’s it’s a bonus. And you know how it goes sometimes you don’t even know that you that you’ve helped somebody, but I guarantee best teaching Yeah, best. But here’s the thing. You’re never going to help anybody without doing this kind of stuff. So thank you for asking me and give me a platform to do it.

Josh 1:23:41
You’ve been a big help man. Let me know when you’re ready to make your first course I’ll give you the I’ll give you the path to follow up.

Bob 1:23:47
Sounds good.

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