In this special episode of the podcast, it’s a privilege to bring in one of my students, Shannon Morris, who is early in her web design journey but has had an AMAZING first year and plenty of invaluable lessons to share.

She was a former school teacher who wanted a career change that offered more freedom and flexibility and that’s when she discovered web design. And within a year, she pivoted from teacher to full time web designer!

In this interview, she opens up about the steps she took to learn web design, start her business, start getting clients and more importantly, how she’s managed to push through the highs and lows that inevitably come when starting a business.

If you’re interested in a career change or finally taking your web design side hustle full time, I hope you can pull from Shannon’s experience and gain the confidence you need to get started with your web design business so you can have the freedom and lifestyle you want!

Enjoy 🙂

P.S. I want to help you in YOUR journey just like I have with Shannon so if you’re ready to become a well rounded, full time web designer join my Web Design Course Bundle today so we can begin to fast-track your journey as well!

In this episode:

00:02 – Podcast Prelude
05:07 – Welcome to Shannon
07:09 – Career change
12:50 – Decisions
20:00 – Just getting started
24:33 – Growth mindset
25:16 – Figure-outiveness
26:15 – Feeling fulfilled
28:14 – Introvert networking
35:08 – Keep trying
38:10 – Work can come quickly
40:22 – Start comfortably
43:51 – Celebrate victories
47:39 – Comfortable with sales
52:54 – Feeling frustrated
56:34 – Vulnerable time
59:50 – Hoping to travel
1:01:55 – Self analysis
1:03:51 – Finding Shannon
1:05:21 – Why invest in courses
1:08:00 – Helping Josh

Josh’s Web Design Course Bundle

Connect with Shannon:

Featured links mentioned:

Episode #136 Full Transcription

Josh 0:15
Hey, friends, welcome into the podcast. This is Episode 136. And I’ve got such a special episode for you here and I really, really great interview with one of my newer web design students who is early in her journey but has done such a great job with building her business. And sticking with it and doing a really good job at creating beautiful websites and starting to get clients in her first year. I wanted to have her on to share what she’s learned in this first year of her journey. This is Shannon Morris. And what’s extra interesting about her is that she pivoted from a completely different career. She was a former school teacher, and one of the do more traveling and wanting to work remotely and when and where she wanted.

Josh 1:00
And you’ll hear in this interview, she was doing some traveling at one point and teaching online for as a school teacher. And then she found out that a lot of people traveling and kind of having a more nomadic style life, were in web development. So it piqued her interest to start web design. As you’ll hear, she kind of shares about how she came about my resources. And she in this interview dives in to her entire journey on how she started her business, how she learned web design. And I think more importantly, we get into not only the highs that she’s had, and the confidence boosters that that she’s experienced, but also the low points because we all go through highs and lows, particularly that first year of starting our business. But as you’re going to hear, Shannon did an incredible job at sticking with it and persevering through some of those tough points. She shares how she does that in this episode. And more important than any of this.

Josh 1:55
When Shannon started her web design business, she and she talks about this later on in the interview. But she realized she needed to, if she was gonna fast track her journey and not take years and years and years to learn everything she wanted to learn from somebody who had already done it. And that’s how she came across me and Shannon joined my web design course bundle, which is all of my web design courses wrapped up into basically one little mini Academy. And that is the quickest and most most effective way to fast track your journey to becoming a well rounded web designer just like Shannon. It’s going to teach you a design, it’s going to teach you the basics of coding, it’s going to teach you the business aspect of things, how to build your maintenance plan, Shannon decided that she wanted to go through that. And as you’ll hear in this interview, not only did she learn how to do all that, but she actually implemented it, which was so cool for me to see in here. So if that’s you, and you want to learn web design, and you’re ready to start your own business, join my web design course bundle today, it again will teach you how to become a well rounded web designer just like Shannon. So you can start your business and grow it and get to the next level, especially for those of you who are coming from a different career path. And you’re just terrified to get into web design.

Josh 3:06
So I can’t wait for you to hear this one. Shannon was so great, so transparent, and sharing her first year of her journey. And I do want to mention before we dive in, it was funny, after we stopped recording, she was like I told I should have mentioned this one we were alive. But she said I took some other courses after I take yours as well just to get some other perspective. And she was like another course I took didn’t even compare to your bundle in your business course, because it was surfacey. It didn’t really teach me that much didn’t power me, she said with your checklists and everything that you provide, and the practical lessons that really helped me feel confident to actually start my business and start making money. So I just wanted to share that because that’s what this is all about. I want to help you in your web design journey, just like I was fortunate to do here with Santa. And so check out my bundle, there’s a link below. And without further ado, here is Shannon, you’re going to hear how a former former school teacher went full time web design in less than a year. Enjoy.

Josh 4:05
Shannon, welcome on to the podcast. It’s so great to have you on.

Shannon 4:10
Thank you for having me. I have listened to your podcast for a long time now. So it’s cool to actually be on it.

Josh 4:17
It’s been really cool to see your journey so far. And we were talking before we went live here. The previous couple episodes to this are with some experts in the web design industry. But I think it’s just as valuable to hear from somebody who is early in the journey. And I think you’re a prime example of somebody who has come from a different industry. And you’ve worked your butt off in web dev web design and just over a year, and you’ve done a really good job at sticking with it, building a nice site, solidifying your services and I think really, really exciting things are ahead for you. So I think it’s awesome to have you on. Thank you so much for taking some time. Before we dive in here. Do you want to let everybody know first off where you’re based out of and I know you’re in a networking group now. So when somebody in that group asks you what you do, what do you tell them?

Shannon 5:07
Yeah, so I am based out of Charleston, South Carolina. And my Well, my networking groups feels a little bit longer at 60 seconds. But I usually start with I design, build and maintain beautiful websites for small businesses.

Josh 5:24
Beautiful. And I think pretty much what your website says to write something short and sweet. Nice headline very, very clear. And being in Charleston. Are you working primarily with just businesses locally? Are you doing stuff abroad? I know you’re doing some white label stuff, too, right?

Shannon 5:40
Yeah, I I’m not doing anything abroad. But I am. Most of my clients have been local small businesses in Charleston, but I am doing some white label work through people that I’ve met through your club. And that has been in other states as well. But most of my, I think all of my clients are here in Charleston.

Josh 6:03
Yeah. Well, let’s get right into it here, Shannon, because you have a really cool path and journey to into web design. First question I have for you. Is it wild to think about you being a web designer? Like do you wake up sometimes and just think, I can’t believe I’m designing websites?

Shannon 6:21
Yeah, sometimes. I mean, if I yeah, I guess if I really reflect on it, because this time last year, well, last school year, I started the school year as a teacher. So this school year. Yeah, it was just been a whole different career, a whole different lifestyle. And yeah, I love it, though.

Josh 6:46
Yeah. Well, let’s take us back to beginning of 2020. So you’re a school teacher. What happened that made you even be even before you got into web design, and we got together with, you know, my courses and stuff? What was the jettison of that career change, like, what made you think about not being a school teacher and changing paths?

Shannon 7:09
Well, I didn’t hate teaching. And it wasn’t COVID. So I know the timing of it, it sounds like it. You know, COVID, especially has been really hard for teachers. And I just have so much respect for all the teachers who are sticking with it. But it wasn’t COVID that made me decide it was actually. So just to take it back a little further, I taught Spanish and English as a second language, because just always my interests have been around language and traveling, among other things, but that was just what I had chosen to do. And so a goal that I had since high school was that I wanted to live in Spain for a while. So I taught for four years in Tennessee. And then I took a year off and travel mostly in Spain while I was teaching online. And so that was before COVID. That was the 2018 2019 school year that I took off teaching online before everyone was but that was like, it was just not a sustainable career. For me, personally, I didn’t really enjoy teaching online, it didn’t pay very well. And yeah, it just was not, I knew it wasn’t gonna be forever for me.

Shannon 8:25
And what I did really want to do more regularly was travel and have a flexible schedule. So I when I was traveling that year, I met a lot of other digital nomads who were traveling and working remotely. And so through conversations with them, I just knew that a lot of them were in the web development software development space. And so that was really the first time I had even considered it. thought like, why not? Why not consider something in that field. And so I just started searching that year, online for different opportunities, what you know, trying to figure out what I could possibly be good at or interested in. And I kept coming back to web design. And that is really how I decided to do it at that point is at some point there is when I found your courses, so I don’t know if you…

Josh 9:20
Yeah, I was curious how you stumbled across my stuff, because I think it was spring of 2020. If I recall that you came through the courses, so I was trying to remember. Yeah, that sounds about right, because I had wondered if it was COVID related, but it just sounds like that’s kind of a coincidence. As far as timing goes.

Shannon 9:37
I started looking. It did take me a little while to find your courses. I had looked into other things. I certainly wasn’t thinking I would quit my teaching job so soon. I came back after that school year, and I moved to West Virginia where my boyfriend lived. And I got a teaching job there for that school year. And that was that was the beginning of In March as my COVID happened, and so I was still kind of searching online for other career opportunities. But I had, I had kind of been trying to focus on, you know, teaching my students and stuff. And so right before COVID is what I found you through your Elegant Themes blog series, how to be a web designer with Divi and WordPress. And that’s how I originally found you. And I was like, This guy teaches very, like, I liked your communication style, you were just helping people start a business. I don’t know, I just felt like you explained things very well. So I, you know, that’s how I found your courses. I went to your website, and, and then as I right before, you know, I was just looking at it, I wasn’t sure if I wanted to invest. And I think you were just getting your course bundle finished at that time. And so I knew I needed to buy all of them because I didn’t know anything about web design. So I was like, I need all I need to learn all of the things. But then we got shut down from for COVID. And I had so much time teaching in rural West Virginia, a lot of students didn’t have like access to internet. And so

Josh 11:11
I didn’t even think about that. Yeah,

Shannon 11:13
So it was really, they really decided to focus on the core subjects. And so I was teaching Spanish at that time. And so I really didn’t have much to do as much as and that’s awful, because so many teachers work so hard. But I found myself with a lot of extra time. And so that’s when I took the opportunity to find your courses, took them all and just threw myself into it.

Josh 11:37
You may have been one of the first students who completed all the courses in that amount of time, like, I remember, you basically went like ham on all the courses, you know, all day, it was really cool for me to see because like the timing of that is wild. I’ve completed the bundle, which my SEO course was the final course in that bundle in beginning of March 2020. So and I sir as heck didn’t plan that it just kind of happened that I had that course ready to go then so it was like, just in perfect time for you. So here’s a valuable lesson two is when you have an opportunity where you do have some time, make the best of it instead of like you could have just sat on the couch and felt sorry for yourself or just wondering what to do. But you were proactive and did something which is awesome, Shannon, like I could tell you where to go get I know you don’t probably be yourself like this, but you are a go getter and a doer from the get go. So hats off to you first of all for, for taking that time and doing it because it was really cool to see. And I was actually curious, like, in the in the in those early days when you started learning web design? Did you think about just doing web design to be able to have something to do on the side? Or were you pretty serious about like starting a business from the get go with this?

Shannon 12:50
I think at first, I was thinking about doing it on the side, but I really wanted to find a job that I could eventually have as my full time job. I don’t know if I have really considered owning my own business and everything that that would entail at that time. But it’s definitely been a fun challenge ever since I decided to do it. And yeah, I think I was I was more thinking about just like freelancing. But I mean, I still am basically freelancing. But it was just, I felt like as a teacher, I knew that I would come home and most teachers bring you bring work home, you think about how you can do things better, all the time, like when you’re really when you really care about your students. And I knew that it was going to be really hard for me to continue to teach, but do this on the side, which I was also getting really excited about. And I knew it was going to take my attention. So that’s, yeah, that’s when I decided.

Shannon 13:52
So at the end of that school year, I had just been like, you know, building a site, a few sites for free, and like learning through your courses and all that. And then we my boyfriend, and I moved from West Virginia to Charleston, South Carolina that summer. And I had the choice whether I was going to, you know, find another teaching job or just see if I could do this. And I just felt like, again, I didn’t want to try to do both. And I remember you told me you advise me when I talked to you about it that to think about what’s the worst that can happen. And for me, it was well I’ll just get a part time job doing something that is not as time consuming as teaching. So maybe it would be like working in a coffee shop or what I actually did end up doing was a part time babysitting job. And so you know, you just make it work. If that’s what you want. And I mean, I think everyone’s situation is going to be different mine was that I before I traveled I had, you know set this goal of paying off all my student debt. student loan debt, my car debt. So I had already taken care of that. And I didn’t have a mortgage, I didn’t have kids. So for me personally, it was okay to take that risk of just being like, well, if I don’t make enough money, I can get a part time job or you know, that that’s it, like, it’s no big deal. But for everyone, that’s not feasible. So I totally understand the struggle there.

Josh 15:24
Well, I was curious what the risk factor looked like for you, then I, I do remember that because I remember you saying, you know, you and your boyfriend, were thinking about moving to South Carolina, because you want to see the beach. And of course, I was a little jealous, because my wife and I want to do that one day at some point, but we’re not gonna leave family, because they’re all here in Columbus, Ohio. But I one thing that was really cool about that time period, is I think back on that is, I think it was maybe an interesting opportunity for you because you realize I could do web design anywhere. And it’s not location dependent. So whereas teaching, if I guess, you know, like you were teaching online, so you were a little more used to remote work. But for the average person, that is a huge barrier to think about the fact that you are not tied to a location with web design, even if you do have a lot of local clients. If you move, you can get other clients from where your new location is, or remotely, there’s so many different avenues for it. And I know we’ll talk about some white labeling that you’re doing with other designers as well.

Josh 16:23
But it was really cool to see that you kind of embraced Charleston, this this new, you know, new city new experience. And how did you come up with because I want to talk about how you started getting clients locally. But walk us through like when you decided to make a business and how did you come up with your business name because I kind of remember some of this but how did it What were you What was your mindset when you actually were like okay, I’m gonna do this, you look at the risk, worst case scenario like you said you’d, you’d get another job you did some nannying on the side to help out with some costs. And obviously, you didn’t have all the risks that somebody with a family might have. So yeah, take it to the business setup. What did that look like for you?

Shannon 17:07
Um, I mean, I didn’t really, I didn’t want to spend too much time on it because I knew it was something I could potentially spend weeks on, like, deciding on a name and a brand and designing the website and I did spend a decent amount of time on my website, but I, I just forced myself to decide I’ve made a list of of names that I could potentially use. And I ended up going with Turia, because at the time that I decided to really look into web design was when I was living in Valencia, Spain, and there is a river bed that the city has turned into a park, a park that wraps around the whole city called the Turia, which is spelled Turia but no one’s gonna say Juliana and in the United States, so just call it Turia. But so it was meaningful to me that I lived next to this park. It’s a really beautiful, peaceful space that I loved going to every day when I lived there. So

Josh 18:05
That’s awesome. I didn’t know was behind the name. I should have asked that all the times we’ve talked, I never asked about what was behind the name. Do you have that on your website? Where the meaning behind the name?

Shannon 18:15
I don’t I I guess I could, but

Josh 18:17
I think that would be cool sand, if you had like, on your about page, like what’s behind the name, which, you know, not every client is super interested in the meaning of a business. But that is really cool. Because it’s personal. It’s like, you can you can give a little snapshot of your past and your experience with teaching and listen, clients just for everyone’s heads up. clients love getting to know who they’re working with on a deeper level. So if somebody finds out you are a teacher, and you care about teaching, and like, what a great way to build some trust and likeability there, so I would totally encourage you to kind of have what’s behind the name and maybe throw a picture of you when you’re traveling through Spain or something. I think that would be so cool.

Shannon 18:57
Yeah, that’s a good idea. I, yeah, I’m kind of going back to like just deciding on like, building my website and deciding on everything. I mean, well, first of all your courses, I based everything that I started my business on from your business course, just all of your courses helped me so much with that, especially the business course. And like I even some of the wording I took from you and then just made it my own, which you gave, like you give your students permission to do that. So but in the beginning, that helps so much, because I think some people spend so much time just deciding on these things, and they just never get started because they think oh has to be perfect, but I just was really grateful for like the resources that you gave and your business course for like just some pages to get you started and what should be on your website and how just how the marketing tips and things like that. That all helped me get my website up quickly.

You can just paralyze yourself in decisions and perfectionism and the reality is, it’s better just to get something up. – Josh

Josh 20:00
So awesome. I remember seeing your website at first, well, it’s funny because I figured you would come back and you’d still be like wrestling with a name. And then you’re like, here’s my site, it’s up and I was like, holy cow, Shannon way to go, like, you hit the nail on the head there. That’s a really important point. You can just paralyze yourself in decisions and perfectionism. And the reality is, it’s better just to get something up. And to just do it, and then revise it, tweak it, you know, kind of go from there. Because Yeah, I think a lot of people don’t even get to the point where they get started, because they just kind of lock themselves and limit themselves with this analysis paralysis. So again, you did a really good job with just getting out the door. And it still holds true today, like your initial design is what you have a year later. And it’s a beautiful sight. And I know you’ve done you’re done some awesome work. I think you had an interesting design approach. Like, I feel like you were pretty darn good at design right from the get go. Did you have any other background in design? Where did it help when you were doing courses and teaching? Like, did you? were you doing presentations? Did you have any sort of eye for design? Because I really feel like from the get go, I was like, Wow, you’re a great designer?

Shannon 21:12
Thanks. Yeah, I think, of course, I did presentations, everyday teaching. So that probably helps. But it was one thing that I chose, because it’s an interest that I have, like, just any any opportunity when I was teaching or just in my life to do something artistic, I took a lot of art classes, as electives in college, and just really enjoyed that. But I never knew I’d never even considered be having any any type of creative career. I don’t know. It’s kind of a long story, like how I ended up teaching instead of but, but yeah, so that was one thing that really, I was excited about in web design was when I was looking at potential careers, that it was something that combined, like art and creativity and being, you know, the graphic design kind of side, but also all these other skills, there’s so much to it. There’s like business and marketing and UX design, development. I mean, if you want if, if you are wanting a career to be challenged in that’s you’re always going to be learning and you’re never going to get bored. I think web design is a great career for that. Because there’s just so much that you can, you can learn,

Josh 22:29
Certainly never going to get bored. That’s for sure. And I think in the case of all my courses in my bundle, as I’ve kind of thought about that, the goal is really to help you and other web designers around the world become well rounded. So you feel good about your business. You know, Davey, or whatever theme you’re using, you feel good about even just a little bit of coding with CSS, I know coding isn’t your favorite thing, Shannon, but you got dangerous enough to where you’re able to do some really cool stuff with it and fix stuff and figure stuff out. Got a little dangerous with SEO got a little dangerous with cPanel and other things. So the goal is to be a well rounded designer. And I think what you’re probably finding out now is you can really dive into these areas and much more expertise in detail if you want to. But you don’t have to, like I was actually curious, what is your? What is your strong suit in your business? Is it design? Is it copy? Are you like an SEO? What’s some of your, you know, favorite aspects of web design being that you’ve been doing it for almost a year and a half now?

Shannon 23:29
Yeah, I actually do enjoy the coding. I, it was something completely new to me. But I loved your CSS course that was something just really exciting to me to be able to see. I don’t know how to how to do that. It was just way more you you made it way more accessible than I realized. And something that’s very learnable. It’s like a language that you can learn. So actually enjoy the challenge of that now. But probably the design is still my favorite part.

Josh 23:59
I haven’t Think about that. I I didn’t realize you enjoyed it as much as you did. So that’s interesting. I think potentially, since you do or you are versed in different languages. I’m sure that helps with coding because it is literally a language like yeah, literally, like if you can learn Spanish in English, then I’m sure you can learn CSS in a couple different languages, code wise, because it is very much the same. I don’t know. Have you thought about any of the principles that apply? You know, with learning different languages, if that translates to code, but that’s an interesting point. I didn’t really think about that. But I guarantee that helped you pick up on that.

Shannon 24:33
Yeah, I think the the main thing that has helped coming from like being a teacher is something I focused on, aside from the language thing with my students was just having a growth mindset, like anything that you want to learn. You can learn and so I don’t know me trying to instill that in my students helps me in trying to learn anything like if something seems like it’s just something I never thought I could do. Well, I can figure it out. And that is really useful in business in general, and starting your own business is just knowing that you can figure it out, and you can learn how to do anything.

Josh 25:10
Great point, I think, in the club, but you and I were messaging and I told you the ability to just have like, figureoutiveness, if that’s a term, we’re gonna, we’re calling it a term here, I’m gonna trademark that. That is the most crucial thing you can have as a web designer, and as an entrepreneur and a business owner just to figure it out. So yeah, you kind of had an early mindset with that, which is really cool. So I do want to talk about business and how you started getting your first clients. I’m sure you recognize early on. And hopefully I taught you this in the beginning, which was not only what is web design a great way to have the lifestyle, you want to live and have freedom, but it is fulfilling work. I mean, it comes with its hardships, and its highs and lows, but it is you’re helping businesses grow. And you’re, you’re helping somebody be proud of their website, that feels really cool. And I’m sure when you got out of teaching, I would imagine, I don’t know if you felt like you neglected students, or you were, you know, bailing on them. But hopefully web design was maybe not, maybe not as equal is that but at least somewhat fulfilling? Would you say that’s true? When you got going with your business?

Shannon 26:15
Oh, yeah, definitely, I did have a little bit of guilt strangely, like just leaving teaching, I don’t know if that’s common for teachers to feel when they leave that they’ve just they’re giving up on their students. But it wasn’t. I mean, the more I thought about it, that’s not what it was, it just wasn’t the best fit for me. And I do feel fulfilled. And that’s something that I really enjoy about web design is the fulfilling part is just helping businesses, when that’s like the best, the best clients to work with are the ones that have maybe had a bad experience, or they’re just they tried to do it themselves. And they are frustrated, and they spent hours, and it still doesn’t look good. And then you can deliver something that they’re so excited about. And they’re so thankful, and just helping their business grow. It’s just really exciting. I think, yeah,

Josh 27:07
Yeah, that is, that’s one of the best one of the best parts of web design is, particularly once you get something done and out and they’re pumped about their new website, and they’re excited about the work that you’ve done. I mean, I’m sure you had students that you helped, but I’m sure you had a lot of students where it was like, is anyone listening to me? Are they taking anything for this? So to see somebody on the other end is like a client have your work in their hands, and they can spread it, you know, to their network is so cool. So getting clients. here’s the tricky part. And I remember when you join a networking group in Charleston, and you went for it, you went for, you know, I didn’t I know you stepped out of your comfort zone to I know that sales is not your favorite aspect of the business. And I know you’re, you’re kind of introverted, a lot of ways which you came onto this show. Thank you so much. It was so funny, because when I invited you, you were like, Oh, my gosh, I’m sweating already. But I love that you’re, you know, branching out of your shell getting out of your comfort zone. That’s a whole nother level when you start getting clients. And tell us about what was what did you get your first local client was that through the networking group that you joined?

Shannon 28:14
It was Yeah. So when I first moved here, I did do another free site for someone that I met through a book club that I joined. So I was prepared to do that for a little while. I had, you know, some savings. I was like, whatever I need to do to build my portfolio to just get my name out there. I have some time. And so but I joined a bunch of different networking groups when I moved here. And one in particular, I’ve actually there were three that I joined. And I’ve quit two of them because they’re the one that I joined that has helped the most was called BNI, business, networking International. I’m sure a lot of people have heard of it. It’s all over the world. Some people love it. Some people hate it. It’s, it can be very rigid. There’s a lot of rules. It’s kind of expensive, but it has just worked for me. So yeah, the first the first meeting I had, I was just visiting that group. And it was all virtual, by the way, which was really nice for me. Okay, easing into it. So it was all on zoom. We’re in person now. But

Josh 29:17
So you didn’t have to go to your first big networking group in person feel like an imposter. You know, everyone’s wearing suit and ties and they’re professionals. And you’re like, oh, what am I doing here?

Shannon 29:28
So it was like, it actually is really nice for some people like me, who are introverts who don’t really enjoy the idea of like, just wandering around the room and finding someone to talk to and like, you know, just, I don’t know, thinking of what to do with your hands. It’s like, all of that like it was it was a nice way to ease into it. But anyway, the first meeting that I had, I met someone who asked me to go to coffee and she had a business on the side, she was an insurance agent in the group. But she had a side hustle. As a she, she made Korean dumplings and Korean mundu and delivered them locally. And she she already had a very successful side hustle doing this. But COVID had really helped her business doing like local deliveries. And just, I don’t know, it was just she did really well during COVID. And so she wanted a better website and a better system. And so like, for my first meeting, we started talking about that. So like, that ended up being my first paying client. And it was this kind of complicated ecommerce site. So that was fun.

Josh 30:39
That’s right. I forgot that was e commerce. Yeah,

Shannon 30:42
Not, she doesn’t have a ton of products or anything. But it was there just a very special circumstances doing local delivery. She also had a separate page for her pop ups that she does like and food trucks type situation. But anyway, that I knew that that was going to be a good group for me to join that client has given me soaping referrals. Her in particular, she’s like, she is a networking queen. So she’s helped me a lot. And yeah, so mostly, it’s been through BNI that I’ve had most of my clients. And then she also and a few other people in the group have connected me to like graphic designers, logo designers, social media marketers, locally that specialize in those aspects of digital marketing. And that has been a great partnership for me to have both of those connections have, like we give each other work a lot. We work together on projects. So that has been really helpful as well. So looking for those types of partnerships, in addition to just going to networking meetings.

Josh 31:47
Yeah, well, a couple of important points there. First of all, the networking groups, I think it is good that you joined a few and then decided which one you wanted to stick with. Because I did the same, it’s really important to try a few different groups out because when we say networking groups, it’s people. So some groups, I remember the organization I was a part of my group was awesome. We had some really great people, I visited other chapters, and they were terrible. Some were like, good old boys club kind of thing. Some were just, you know, it just it wasn’t a good fit. My I was lucky in my chapter where we had some really good, serious entrepreneurs and stuff, which is really cool. So great lesson, do a different a few different groups, I would say to maybe you’ll back me up on this, not to judge an organization just by one group. Sometimes you do need to go around a few different groups, because it’s people see what resonates with you. I think the other important thing that you figured out Shannon was it’s not just the people in there who are going to be your clients, but it’s who they know, it’s that the gal you work with, it’s her network, which is now a huge referral source for you. So that’s the beauty of any professional network is, is you get to meet maybe 15 20 people, suddenly your network is instantly expanded by hundreds of people. And you have access to these people. And it’s a much more warm way to go than you know, Shannon, calling local businesses cold calling, saying, Hey, I’m Shannon, I’m new. Do you need a website? It’s,

Shannon 33:13
I did do that. Like, one day I spent I did some cold emails.

Josh 33:18
Did you? All right.

Shannon 33:19
Didn’t hear back? That was before I really did anything with the networking. And I will not do that. Again. I felt icky. I didn’t like it was not for me.

Josh 33:29
Yeah, if you know if like, if lovely Shannon can’t get through with it with a cold email. I don’t know what hope anyone has. Because that I just think it’s a very dated approach. I mean, maybe it works. If you do it in scale, and you do hundreds and 1000s of blasts. But yeah, networking and organic is totally the way to go. So I love to hear how that started for you. And I know you had some highs and lows in the beginning as all business owners do. Because you get a few projects you’re you know, we talked before we went live, you’re in seasons where you have a lot of projects and then it seems like they drag on or you have a little projects Tell me about like when you kind of turn the corner to like, Okay, this is like, I’m going to continue doing this because I know you started the business but if you didn’t get any projects for a few months, it could be something where you’re like, Alright, it might not destined to do this, but what Well, I guess the question is like, what were some of those moments that gave you some confidence early on to stick with it?

I had invested in tools and your courses like, I just was not going to stop. I just knew that I needed to keep trying. – Shannon

Shannon 34:27
I didn’t have a lot of confidence early on. I think I just knew that like as far as being reinforced by the massive amounts of money I was making like that did not happen. And it’s still like just you know, I’m getting to the point now where if I have a slower month it’s okay because I I’ve had a few really good months and my for my standards. And but like in the beginning. I think it was just me knowing that the only thing the only option I I had because I had done so much work I had invested in tools and your courses like I just did was not going to stop. I just knew that I needed to keep trying. And I did have you know, like a few months where I had relate my savings had dwindled. And that’s when I ended up getting a part time job doing some nannying. And it’s very part time.

Shannon 35:23
So I and I’m so thankful that I didn’t go out and just get like, a job that had a lot of hours because actually work one day a week for her. And if I had it was actually just like a month later that I got tons of work. So it changes it can change so fast. Even next week for me, I’ll be feeling really stressed one week, like, I just finished these projects I was you know, I’m I don’t have very many lined up, or the ones that I have. They paid months ago and they’re not responding and there’s the drag on. So that can delay your you know, you finishing the project and getting paid again, you’re just like that inconsistency can be really stressful. But just if I just feel like the only thing I could do was just to keep going. Yeah, and then I guess the months that I did have that were really good months, obviously fell awesome, and are now allowing me to not feel so stressed. If I do have a little bit of a slower month. I’m okay. And I’ve had I don’t know how many clients now but because I did your maintenance plan course, every single one of them, I think every one of them is on a maintenance plan.

Josh 36:39
That’s awesome.

Shannon 36:40
Yeah. So I’m super glad that I knew about that from the beginning and did that because that it’s really good for the client. And it’s good for me, they don’t have to worry about their website there. They don’t want to have to maintain it. So I can help them with that. And it’s recurring income that I know is just going to keep building. So that has given me a lot of security and confidence to just keep going.

Josh 37:03
Yeah, that’s so great. Shannon, what a great little case study of that season of your life. Because I remember that, I remember you, you expressed to me that you were a little down just because you you know, worked your butt off learning all the courses, going through the courses, setting up your business, had some good opportunities, and you just weren’t leading that many clients in the beginning. Although I do remember one time I asked you how many proposals you sent out. And you said one, and I was like, Alright, Shannon. One is not enough to feel bad about yourself, you need to get 10 proposals out before you start feeling bad about yourself. So we had a little bit of you know, back and forth in the beginning there to help get past past that point. And I do remember you saying I think I’ll take a little part time job. And I don’t remember what I said. But I assume I said like, that’s fine, do that. And then as you know, I’m glad that you still made sure you had the time to devote to web design. Because then I forget if you just randomly reached out or if I checked in with you to see how things were going. And you were like, by the way, remember, like last time we spoke I was you know really kind of down and was hoping to find some clients Well, now I’m like slammed and I don’t have enough time to get all this stuff done. So it can change on a dime like that.

Shannon 38:13
And I would say if if you can, if you do have a part time job, and you’re not, it can be hard to just not focus all the time on getting more clients. But they’re the first few years especially if you’re coming from another career and you’re just learning everything, I think it can be really nice to not be slammed is so that you feel you really have time to make every project, the best that you can do that you’re learning something on every project. So like during those slower months, you know, you can just be taking the time that taking advantage of those to learn if you’re not stressed about financial stuff.

Josh 38:52
That’s a great point.

Shannon 38:53
It’s nice to have the time.

Josh 38:55
Yeah, that’s the perfect time to to refine your systems and your processes and make sure when you do get a wave of business, which is going to happen, you can handle it and you can build sites faster than you would have because it’s almost I mean, I know that’s it’s tricky, because I know it’s a very, and I remember this feeling when you’re like low on projects. It’s a terrible feeling. But at the same time while that’s a challenge, what’s an even greater challenge sometime is having too many projects, and then just not being able to fulfill them. And then doing bad work or rushing stuff or just not getting, having a good experience with your client. Like it’s almost better to, like you said have fewer clients in the beginning and do really good work. have a really good experience from start to finish. Make a client for life. Get them on your hosting and maintenance, get a nice review, get some referrals and let it grow like that.

Josh 39:46
So sounds like you’ve learned all those lessons, you know, pretty early on and I’m sure, look, finances do come into play here. I don’t know what the average school salary school teacher salary is, but I’m sure when you came from that world, when you look at web design, you know that I taught you, you should start at 2497, on average for a typical site, that at any point, were you looking at web design and thinking like, wow, I could potentially make in a few months what I made as a school teacher that, you know, early on to that inner in and entice you to, to stick with it from the business perspective?

Shannon 40:22
Um, I don’t think so. Because I think I think I saw over time how I could, I definitely will have a lot of offers more opportunities financially in web design. I’m really excited about that. So yes, I guess I should say, but for the first year, I did not see, like, for me, personally, I did not start my sites at 24 $2500 websites. So to overcome imposter syndrome for myself, I felt better about doing lower priced sites. And so that is partially why, you know, I might have struggled, but it may have also helped me get more clients in the beginning, I don’t know. But now that I’m busy, I’m able, I was able to raise my prices to more like what you’ve recommended and beyond for for projects now. And I will see that growth. So I think, for me for the first year or so it was just like I didn’t, I had to kind of step back and realize, Oh, I can’t actually, I’m not going to make my teacher salary this year for me. So other people might be able to do that right off the bat be able to be super successful. But I wanted to, like do a really good job on all the websites. I took a long time on all of my websites. And I didn’t charge as much as you recommended, that’s probably terrible advice. But that is just how I that’s how I got through this past year. But I’m really, really excited for the future years to see how that can grow.

Josh 42:03
Yeah, and that’s all right. I mean, yeah, I do recommend Yeah, I think you probably would have landed most all the clients still at a $2500 range instead of the, I think you’re at about 1000 or 1500. For some but 15. Yeah. But that’s still fine. And it’s still enough to where like 1500 bucks for a website, compared to how much you would have how much work you had to have done. And as teaching to get to that point, I’m sure, you know, at least planted the seed to realize like, wow, there’s a lot of opportunity here. And it’s not from a greed perspective. It’s just from a realistic like, this is an industry where the sky’s the limit. It’s really it’s it’s totally up to you, which is terrifying in some way, but also super empowering and awesome. I would love to hear if you’re open with Sharon. Shannon, like, I know, recently you had about a $6,000 month. What, what the heck happened? How? Like, that’s really great. How was that just one of those were like all projects seem to close and start at the same time. Was there anything special that happened then? I’m sorry, that was a confidence booster to write to be like, wow, this can be really cool.

Shannon 43:04
Yeah, that was really exciting. For me, I messaged you and told you about that. And that was just because I yeah, I had several projects end and another one began, maybe it was I can’t remember now exactly what happened. But it was just a good month of finishing things and starting another one. And I have recently raised my prices and been really excited to see that yes, I do still get clients after I’ve raised my prices. Yeah, so yeah,

Josh 43:33
That’s awesome. Yeah, great for you. That’s so cool. I remember when you let me know about that I was pumped because it’s those moments that do make up for those, those low periods. And those those bummer months, or those bummer weeks, where you’re just kind of down on yourself, you want clients and then when something good happens, I think it’s really important to number one, celebrate that. And then also reflect on that and just remember, like, remember, the impact are making and remember those those good moments because those do tend to, you know, to it’s easy to look past those if you’re worried about finances, or you’re stuck on a project or something. negatives always outweigh positives, it seems like so, I think being intentional, you know about that to help your confidence. I don’t know if you intentionally did that. But I’ve definitely seen you, you know, be very sturdy through this whole this whole first year of your business, which is really cool.

Shannon 44:24
Yeah, and I just wanted to say that so that if someone is you know, like thinking they’ve just started your courses or thinking about switching just to know that you there may be months where I don’t know and that might be bad advice from you cuz I know you you encourage people to start charging more. But for me, it was just like, I had to struggle for a while before I got to that point. And so just be prepared for that maybe if you’re if you’re not the best at sales and if you do want to start your prices like And to get more clients than just being prepared to work hard and not make a whole lot for a little while before things start to compound with maintenance plans and getting more clients. So being able to raise your rates. That’s how it works for me. And so I don’t know, sometimes I just felt like listening to your podcast, I heard a lot of people that did get me really excited. They like made $100,000 in their first year, I think he did a podcast episode about that. And it can be a little disappointing when you don’t even come close to that. But just to not let that discourage you. Because that doesn’t mean that you won’t have that year, next year or in a few years. Yeah,

Josh 45:39
Great point. Yeah. And I, it is kind of tricky. And it’s one reason I wanted to have you on because you are early in the journey. And I look back at a lot of the episodes I’ve done. And there are a lot of like, top tier experts and folks who were you know, doing really well in and out of different areas of web design. But the reality is, even if you’re making 2030 grand, that’s still awesome. Like, that’s a great foundation to take to the next level, it’s a heck of a lot more than you’d be making work and fast food or, you know, even a lot of industries like did you listen to the episode with Lee Blue from Double Stack recently? I don’t think I’ve heard those yet. So it was it was about product height, or it was about selling your strategy and the results over just like commodity type services. But the reason I mentioned that is because he was taking his daughter to colleges to visit colleges. And I guess Virginia Tech famously says their average earning of a student is $60,000. Which, for four years of higher ed college education, potentially hundreds of $1,000 in debt for 60k a year. That just sounds it’s insane to me, like you could 100% make that in web design, if you really work hard within a couple years, maybe under a year. If, again, if if you have the systems in place, and if you do your pricing, and you love sales, whatever. But I say all that to say the sky is the limit. So it’s really cool to see you even you know, on the lower end, still stick with it and kind of have those little confidence boosters that have helped put you to this point, because I think where you’re at now is really interesting. Shannon, I think you’re like on the cusp of really taking this to the next level. I actually wanted to ask you about sales. Have you? Like do you like sales more? Now? Have you learned any sales strategies that have helped you not dread sales? I mean, it seems like you’re more confident in what you provide. Any any thoughts on sales now that you’ve been doing it for over a year.

Shannon 47:36
Um, I think just getting more comfortable with, because I didn’t realize how many, how many, like discovery calls to sales type calls that I would be making. And just getting more, it just took me time to get comfortable with those and being able to just help people and talk about, like, learn about their business, I think, actually being a really good listener and just being able to really understand what they’re saying that they need and being able to offer solutions to that is what they really want instead of just a website. So I don’t know, I’ve listened to a lot of your different podcast episodes about people who just are helping people selling people, I can’t remember what episode I or maybe something else that…

Josh 48:27
We talked about yeah, we’ve talked about it quite a bit. Yeah, it’s, it’s educating and educating helping people. That’s the best sale it really like it beats being that sweaty used car salesman, because nobody wants to be that it’s it feels desperate, it feels icky. Like the cold calling thing you did. And if you just share what you know, and you genuinely, you know, genuinely want to help. And I know you do, like, I know you have a care for your work and for your clients. And I’m sure that comes across in the networking group and any other avenues you’re doing. So yeah, I was hoping for you that early on, you would you would kind of have that mindset because I know how daunting sales can be. But if you just flip the script, and just serve and share, that really is that’s the that’s the key to it. So it sounds like you know you’re doing that. How are you doing that practically? are you presenting in your networking group at all? Are you doing like consults or meetings with leads? How are you, you know, sharing your expertise with potential clients.

Shannon 49:28
I do our networking group. Every week, we do a press like a quick one minute presentation just explaining our business and then we rotate. Everyone does a 10 minute presentation. So I do that like once every three months. I’m just like going into more detail about my business and what I can offer but mostly sales for me has just been when I get a referral or when I get a contact form submission from Google or wherever. I just schedule a call and we’ll Talk to them and learn about what they need and learn about their business and just try to get as much information as possible. And then I’ve just been going through like a series of questions in the call. And I know it can be helpful to to like weed those calls out, like you teach in your course, I still do that sometimes by like, kind of sending them a pricing page, so that they know like, the ballpark of what my services cost, and then they can schedule a call after that. But sometimes if I know, like, if it was a referral from the group, I will just go ahead and still have a call with them. And then if I can help with, even if they don’t end up going with me, I just try to come at it from like a perspective of I can help them just kind of seeing what they need, and maybe help them not go to explain why fiber or like a, I don’t know, cheap website might not be the best option, if that’s what they’re wanting, and just being able to focus on helping them find the right solution. And yeah, at the end of that call, I’m usually able to give them a ballpark so that they know, the general pricing. And then if that sounds good to them, I’ll send them a quote that was more specific. And then, you know, yeah, with that kind of stuff in place and everything. That’s great.

Josh 51:15
Yeah, that’s the way to go. Yeah, really proud of you for for sticking to that and having that type of mindset. I’m curious, what is the biggest difference between Shannon? We’re recording this at the end of August 2021? So what’s the biggest difference between you from a business perspective? From Shannon August 2021? From August 2020?

I kept doing things that were not comfortable for me, like networking, and things that I’m not super comfortable with. It gives you more confidence to keep doing harder things in the future. – Shannon

Shannon 51:37
Oh, that’s a good question. Um, I think I do have more confidence in my just that I am like, really hard working and strong. And I will figure it out. If, you know, through, like the times where I was really stressed and things were not going so well, just pushing through that and seeing what I was able to do just because I kept going. And I kept trying, and I kept doing things that were not comfortable for me, like, networking, and just, you know, all the things that I’m not really super comfortable with. I think on the other side of that you just feel really proud. And you know, it gives you more confidence to keep doing harder things in the future. And you know that you’re going to succeed if you just keep going.

Josh 52:25
That’s great. Wow, what a nice little motivational snippet there. That’s awesome. How’d it like practically? When you were in some of those low points in those stressful times? What did you do personally, to get through that? Do you? Did you like just shut things off? And go for a walk? Did you? You know, get out? I know you’re living by the beach. So that’s not that luxury that everyone has, unfortunately, like, what did you do to help change your, your mental state and get out of some of those low points?

Shannon 52:54
Yeah, I had a few days that I particularly remember just like, the low points where I would cry and just like, let myself feel frustrated and feel that I you know, just, I would mostly I would talk to my boyfriend who I live with and just be like, I don’t know what I’m doing. And not you know, maybe this was a terrible idea. And really talking to someone that you trust that sees you and sees the hard work that you’ve done. And the success that you have had is really helpful. Like, he is always reminding me whenever I’ve had moments like that. Like, hey, like, a lot of people will say you don’t even make a profit in your first year and you have made a profit or like you, you know, look, look at this awesome project that you’ve already done in such a short amount of time, or just having someone to remind you of the things that you just sometimes forget, because you’re focused on what it could be. That’s really helpful. And yeah, just, of course, going to the beach, if you can.

Josh 53:57
That’s awesome. Hey, it’s great that you have a support system like that. And hats off to your boyfriend, too for for that support. Because that’s that’s tricky. Like, my wife has done that for me sometimes in low points where she is sometimes the voice of reason and it is easy to get down on yourself. Often we’re our own worst enemies in that regard. And I think it’s natural as business owners and as entrepreneurs we’d we you do kind of have to keep an eye on that the worst case scenario kind of stuff and you want to limit that. And inevitably, you’re excited about some stuff and you’re worried about some stuff at the same time. But to have you know, some support system and some some tools and tactics to get out of those.

Josh 54:36
Those points are really good. And I think what you did there with just let yourself cry it out. I think that’s totally fine. Like for everybody. Like if you feel like you’re a failure for because you want to have a good cry when things aren’t going well. I’m here to say that it’s 100% Okay, sometimes it’s good to feel it and then move fast and move on and and just change change your change your mental state and stuff. So it sounds like I would advise you to do that. Same thing. So I’m really glad that, that you had that in place. And it sounds like you’ve already, maybe you built some of that muscle to handle those type of situations. Now I know I have in my journey, those low points, as much as they suck, when you’re in them, those end up being like the best teaching moments because you learn from it. And you know, like, when you start feeling like that, again, I kind of know, all right, I’m gonna feel like this for a little bit, and then I’ll bounce back.

Josh 55:26
It’s even interesting. I don’t know if we talked about this in the club. But I always, always, always have a pretty big low, like a drop once I launch a course. And you would think it’d be the other way around. You think I’d be like jazz that, of course, is out there, and I’m pumped. But there’s something weird about and I don’t know, maybe you’ve experienced this with projects, but then I’m something that like you’re, you know, like, you know, super depressed or something. But there is an odd like, low feeling sometimes when your creation is done and out, is I don’t know what that is. But I definitely feel that with creating courses. Because the first the first couple of courses, I was like, What’s wrong with me? I’m making money off this thing that I’ve been working so hard at Why do I feel weird? And then now I just realized, it’s just maybe there’s, I’m sure it’s been documented somewhere or research where once you create something and you get it out? Maybe it’s like, you’re done with it? And it that part leaves you I don’t know what’s buying that, but I definitely felt that did you? Did you ever feel anything like that, like, foot projects or anything

Shannon 56:26
Funny, it almost sounds like postpartum depression. But like, yeah, just, I feel very, it’s like a very vulnerable time. whenever you’ve created something and you’re kind of waiting for. Or especially for me, it’s like when I’m finished. And I’m waiting for feedback from the client. That is a nerve wracking time.

Josh 56:46
Oh, yeah.

Shannon 56:46
Gonna, you know, love it or be kind of like, okay with it or hate it? I don’t know, you know, it’s just you never know what people are gonna how people are going to react. So yeah, I would say that I feel. I don’t know if I feel it after, after the site is completely done. I think I might just be really relieved. But for me, it’s mostly like when I’m waiting to hear how the client will react. That’s like the hardest, most vulnerable time for me. Yeah.

Josh 57:13
I think we all feel that. Yeah, it is. It is a little bit different with projects. I didn’t feel quite that way with web design projects, as I did, you know, doing courses and stuff. So yeah, it is kind of interesting. It’s like a post course partum depression. So yeah, we may have coined another term here. I’m very curious about this. Shannon, what is your family? Think about this? Like, did you have support from parents and relatives? Because that can be really tricky. When you go full time. I know you moved too like you had a lot of I know, you’re already traveling before that. So it may be a little bit different. But it as much as you’re open to sharing like, did you how Yeah, what what’s that? Like? Because I’m always fascinated with how families sometimes react to a career path change and, and what you’re up to now, what what did that look like?

Shannon 57:58
Yeah, my parents have always been pretty quietly supportive. Whenever I I choose to see it like that. Anyway, they really didn’t say a whole lot. They just kind of Listen, and they are like, all right, I honestly can’t remember what they said probably because I didn’t say very much. But the fact that they didn’t, they didn’t discourage me. They, I think I think the reason for that is because I have, even before I took the year off when I was a teacher, and during the summers, I would travel alone, pretty frequently, just because I wanted to go on these long trips. I had no one else had the time. So I would just call myself. And they were always like, my dad especially would voice that he wasn’t comfortable with it, that he didn’t think I was a good idea. But I always made it happen. I was always responsible. I think just seeing all the things in the past that I’ve been responsible with that I have been independent, self sufficient. I don’t. I think at this point, they were like, well, so she’ll be fine. Yeah. So they really didn’t say much. But, you know, they’re either excited. My mom might be slightly disappointed because she’s a teacher. And my, my sister also used to be a teacher and she quit to do something else. So, but she doesn’t say she doesn’t say it.

Josh 59:16
I mean, they have to be like, well, Shannon, you get to work where and when you want and yeah, you could travel if you want and still, I mean, that’s Yeah, I’m just I’m sure it’s, I’m sure there’s gonna be points where they’re gonna be like, wow, that’s that’s pretty dang cool. So, yeah, is it? Oh, go ahead. Sorry.

Shannon 59:30
I was gonna say that so far, it has been, you know, very focused on Charlston because of COVID. And just different things mean things, things are kind of opening up but getting hard at the same time again, for traveling. So I just have been taking advantage of the local but you know, really throwing myself into the local community, but in the future, I’m hoping to travel and work. That was really one of my main goals for switching careers. So hopefully I’ll get to that. Yeah,

Josh 59:57
Well, you’re laying the foundation and your journey so far. Really, it sounds like it’s kind of put you in a place to handle that, like, with how independent you were in traveling, I’m sure that helped you, you know, learn quickly and push through that the first few months and everything. So that’s really cool. And I know you’re doing white labeling stuff as well, meaning you’re working with other web designers periodically. Was that mostly through my club? I know, I introduced you to a few folks like, yeah, how did you go about white labeling? What did that look like for you?

Shannon 1:00:28
Yeah, that was, um, that has been really helpful just to have something else consistent. And yeah, I’ve done it with three different people. And all of them. I’ve met three, well, the first I met for you and the other two, through your club. And the who just reached out to me in the club. But yeah, that has been awesome. I mean, it’s you have to find a good, like relationship with someone that you guys work well together. But it’s been, it’s been really helpful. I’ve enjoyed it. You know, I like having both I like being able to have my own clients and help out and just to have something else that is consistent that somebody else is doing the sales, they’re doing the part that I don’t really like, and I do kind of just get to focus on design.

Josh 1:01:15
Yeah, it is interesting that you like the the operator point, you know, part of things, and a lot in the business with designing the websites and everything, which is cool. And I know, like I said, you’re getting more and more confident with sales. I know I see your cat wanting to get on the show. parts there. But hey, everyone’s welcome on the Josh. Well, let’s wrap this up saying this has been so great. Your your points have been really cool. I I was curious, because I have one final question. But I am curious, what is like what have you learned about yourself? In this past year? If you could give yourself an analysis? Like, are you proud of yourself for sticking through this first few months? Like what have you learned about yourself as a first year, as a business owner?

Shannon 1:01:55
Yeah, I think I am just proud of myself, I think that I have learned about myself that I will just keep going when it’s hard and that you really have to you don’t have an if you want to do well, that’s the only choice that you have. And that, you know, if you keep going, then you will eventually get what you want. So I think that just knowing that about myself that I can be I can be determined and persistent. And I don’t know just overcome the the struggles that maybe I have with being introverted or things like that, and also the strength in introversion, like the strength that that can bring to business. There’s a book called Quiet that I really recommend for anyone else who just isn’t sure what that how that will play into being, you know, your work environment or being a business owner, you can really bring some valuable aspects of your personality to your business, just being a really good listener, and being an empathetic and things like that.

Josh 1:03:03
So that’s great advice. I’ll make sure we link that in the show notes. I want to check that out. I think I’ve have heard of that, particularly from folks who are a bit of a, you know, not the typical, like, loud type a super charismatic type of personality, that, you know, you don’t want to go to networking group, and you like All right, how many hands can I shake this morning? You know, so I think that’s great that there really is a whole different approach you can take, which is awesome. And let’s be honest, too. Sometimes, I think now more than ever, a lot of clients would prefer that they want somebody who just is going to listen and do the work rather than somebody who’s going to be the quote unquote, perfect salesman. So Wow, that really, really valuable point. Well, Sam, this has been awesome. Where would you like everyone to go to check it out? Do you want them to go to your website? Like you’re on Instagram or something? Where would you like or want to head to?

Shannon 1:03:51
I haven’t really done business accounts on social media very well. Probably just my website, Turia web You can email me and submit a contact form or anything like that to contact me.

Josh 1:04:05
Awesome. Awesome. Yeah, of course. We’ll have that link in the show notes. Everyone can see your beautiful work. Alright, last question. Okay, so Shannon, August 20 2022. Where do you want to be in one year?

Shannon 1:04:21
I want to be working less hours. And I want to be more just having certain income goals. You know, I don’t know if I want to say like the exact numbers but just having just being more relaxed so that I can work less and just have a better pace. That is my goal. I just kind of have a relaxed life. I want to go surfing on Fridays maybe and not work on Friday. That would be awesome.

Josh 1:04:53
Good for you. You totally can do that. Here’s the good news, Shannon. So phase one was learning and I’m actually curious, I’ve meant to ask this earlier, when you decided to go through my course bundle for all the courses, what made you want to invest in yourself? Did you? Did you realize? And did I convince you that you got to go through, you know, some courses to fast track your journey instead of taking 10 years? What made you want to invest in yourself for that first phase?

Shannon 1:05:21
Yeah, I mean, definitely, I would have had no idea. It just, it almost felt like a degree to a small on a smaller scale that, that I could get, you know, I wasn’t sure if I needed to go back to school or like, I just had no idea what the next steps would be in terms of starting a new career in web design. So it just for sure, fast tracking and giving me all the foundations and every aspect of web design, having a web design business. For sure, just fat, fast tracking that and learning from someone who has been successful, and it’s like a proven, you have proven processes, and already been through the hard stuff, and kind of came out the other side. So that has been so helpful.

Josh 1:06:10
That’s awesome. Well, I was curious about what major you don’t want to do that. Because some people just want to take the googling route and the life experience route, which you can, but as you know, it’s extremely costly in every aspect, and it can take years, whereas you, you learn for a handful of months, and you came out of the gate flying, and you’re only a year into your business. And it’s it’s going well, like yeah, you’re you have plenty more you want to get to but that’s not too shabby for one year, you’d have done it yourself, you probably still would have been trying to figure out what CSS is a year and a half down the road. So super proud of you for doing that. And what I was gonna say was phase one was learning. Phase two, which is the hardest is getting started and implementing. So your past like your past the worst of it, which is really, really cool.

Josh 1:06:58
You got a foundation, this next phase this next year, I’m super excited, because now you can refine your processes, scale up on your your sales and everything, figure out, you know, well first of all, raise your rates. So here’s the next challenge, raise your rates, again, Shannon, time to raise them, refine all that stuff. And then you can start cutting back on your time. And as you build faster, I mean, you could you could start off with just clearing half a day on Fridays right now, and just getting more done in the morning and go surfing, or whatever you want to do. So that’s I’m really, really excited for you. Because now you’re at a really exciting part, you’re still early in the journey. So there’s still a lot of work to be done. But you’re definitely this next year, I think you’ll find is probably going to be the most satisfying and exciting because you don’t have to learn as much. You’re building some confidence. And now you can you know, you can work on you and refine your business and, and control your time. So I hope you’re excited. I’m definitely pumped for you.

Shannon 1:07:52
I am Thank you, you’re always good at reminding and I don’t know getting me excited and encouraging me for the next up.

Josh 1:08:00
Awesome. Well, you know, that’s what I’m here for and everybody listening, you can be the next Shannon like, that’s why I have my courses and my web design club. And, you know, it’s just, it’s really honestly Shannon, for me, it’s been really cool to see you because I don’t always see everyone’s journey from start to finish. And I’m gonna finish but a lot of people just tend to disappear, you actually intentionally reached out to me quite a few times, which helped me keep track of where you were until I started the club. And of course, we had Facebook groups for a lot of the courses before we had my students center. But I appreciate you using those resources to keep me informed because this is why I do this like they see your journey in this first year and a half is like the coolest thing for me like the feeling you get a finishing a website and being fulfilled. This is the kind of thing that fills me up. So likewise, thank you for keeping me posted and for sticking with it because you are definitely a really I think you’re a great example of somebody who’s who’s doing it level. You’re up to Shannon, super excited for you. Thanks so much for taking some time to chat with us today.

Shannon 1:09:01
Yeah, thank you for having me.

Josh 1:09:03
All right, Shannon. Thanks.


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