I’m thrilled to have the godfather of Divi tutorials, whitelabel web design expert and all around awesome person, Geno Quiroz, back on the podcast!

As the dude behind popular Divi tutorial site quiroz.co and CEO of web design agency MontereyPremier.com, Geno has an incredible journey so far in web design and over the past couple of years, has had to pivot, make changes and evolve both businesses.

In this episode, we dive into what he’s been up to, what he’s learned (which will be GOLD advice for you to learn from) and we have a little coaching style session about podcasting for web designers because he’s considering adding that as a marketing channel for his business.

While this is the longest episode to date, I think you’ll agree that time spent with Geno flies by! I have no doubt you’ll enjoy this one and pull so much value from someone who’s a real pro in the WordPress community.

In this episode:

00:00 – Introduction
04:49 – The apprentice and the Padawan
10:00 – Passion come to life
15:15 – Who’s going to pay for maintenance
20:56 – Adapting to the subscription model
28:37 – How to take care of 20 new clients
34:01 – You must stay in your lane
41:39 – Conversation joy
45:18 – Lessons learned from conversations
53:48 – Be intentional
55:21 – Be authentic when connecting
57:18 – Utilizing the podcast opportunity
1:16:02 – Scheduling in bulk
1:29:06 – You’ve already put yourself out there
1:40:14 – Changing the end goal
1:48:55 – A new start

Podcast Episode #015 – White Labeling Your Web Design Services With Geno Quiroz


Connect with Geno:

Featured links mentioned:

Episode #144 Full Transcription

Josh 0:15
Hey Friends Welcome into the show. This is Episode 144 with one of my absolute favorite people in the WordPress realm and particularly the Divi realm, this is Geno Quiroz. If you’ve been a Divi user for a long time, you know he needs no introduction. If you are new to WordPress or particularly Divi and you’re not sure who Geno is, he is what I like to call the godfather of online tutorials especially for Divi. Geno was a freelancer and an agency owner and created his personal site at Quiroz.co, which sounds kind of familiar to mine because Geno was a huge mentor and impact on me. And then when I started getting into tutorials, I basically took the playbook that Gino wrote out, and then created my site at Josh Hall CO and you’ll hear about that in this interview.

Josh 1:02
But he is somebody who has a wealth of experience and knowledge in both the online tutorial space but also with his agency at Monterey Premier, which does mostly white label Divi web design. So his first episode, this is actually the second time he’s been on the podcast, I highly recommend you go back to Episode 15 to hear his first episode if you are interested in white labeling. And this one, we just have a good old friendly chat about all sorts of stuff. Primarily then the reason I wanted to have him on right now is because I saw a post that Geno was interested in perhaps doing a podcast or like an interview series for his business to attract clients and to create deeper relationships with clients.

Josh 1:44
Obviously I’m a big proponent of that podcasting has changed my life I’d highly recommend everybody consider doing either a podcast or an interview series with clients. That’s a lot about what we talk in this episode. We also dive into different marketing strategies and really explore a lot of what Geno has done with both of his businesses because he’s had to make some changes he’s cut some things off and pivoted in his journey over the last few years and I just wanted to have him on to really dive into all these subjects in more which we do because in this episode, I think this is by far the longest one which is awesome I think it’s almost two hours and I had an absolute blast so looks like two hours looks like a long one but I think you’ll agree with me and saying that it goes pretty quick because Geno was freaking awesome.

Josh 2:25
He’s just one of the most lovely people you could ever meet. I can’t wait to meet him live one day still never met him but I consider him a really great friends particularly in the Divi and WordPress realm so I know you’re gonna enjoy this. I also know you’re going to get a lot of value and inspiration from Geno’s experience and I hope everything we talked about helps you and your journey as well.

Josh 2:43
Now one thing we do talk about a little earlier on and you know we didn’t mean to really go down this rabbit hole too far in the beginning but we really talked a lot about hosting and maintenance plans and the changes that Geno’s making in his business with taking recurring income with hosting and maintenance more serious so if that’s you want to build recurring income as a web designer The best way to do it is by creating a hosting and maintenance plan. My course on creating this for your business is open right now and available for you I’ve helped hundreds of students all over the world with creating their own maintenance plan I would love to help you as well you can check that out there’s a link below in the show notes here at Josh Hall co slash 144 you can get access to that and if you have any questions let me know hit me up Josh Hall co slash contact I will personally hit you up with a response and let you know any answers if you have questions about that and more. And now here’s Geno let’s have some fun we’re going to talk about all sorts of good stuff that’s gonna help you in your journey. Cue the intro Here we go.

Josh 3:45
Geno my man. Welcome back onto the podcast dude. So great to see you really excited about chatting with you.

Geno 3:52
Likewise Josh I’m excited to be back thank you so much I appreciate it. I’m looking forward to this chat.

Josh 3:58
We’re just fine Yeah, I was gonna say we were just talking before we went live we’re gonna have a fun one on this one because it’s it’s a bit wide ranging we don’t have a bullet list that we’re going to cover with taught you know, a topic I just, I think you’re a really interesting place with your business and you’re somebody who has a lot of experience over the years of building web design, your web design agency, and obviously you’re a Divi guy tutorial guy, and I’m pumped about this because you got a lot of ideas about marketing you’ve been through a lot and your journey particularly it sounds like the last year or two. So I’m excited to dive into that. And yeah, you mentioned it has been a while. Dude you are Episode 15

Geno 4:36
What do you have like you’re like on episode 300 now?

Josh 4:39
We’re not quite that far. I think you’ll be in the one. I will probably be in the 150s 140s 150s so it’s

Geno 4:49
Really cool about this Josh is um, I’ve watched you grow and just been watching what you’re doing and I’m actually like that I’m in our to be on your podcast right now because I’m just really impressed like with how you’ve grown and what you’ve done in the community and what you’re doing with your Facebook groups and just you’re just really impressed and I feel like I become the apprentice.

Josh 5:21
I knew we were gonna get a nice Star Wars reference there yes

Geno 5:26
I’m the Padawan now

Josh 5:29
Well, let’s give credit where credit is due man and I often I honestly forget about this sometimes but you are the godfather of teaching online and sharing tutorials particularly in the Divi community. I mean, I think a lot of people either forget or maybe don’t know if they’re newer to web design and Divi your site at Quiroz co was the first free tutorial site like you just started giving away what you were doing on websites which was like fairly revolutionary in some cases I mean, I think the WordPress ecosystem as a whole is very generous and people did start posting their code and stuff like that but I don’t know at that point if anybody had a like site dedicated to hey here’s the what I’m doing on projects here it is like for free no lead gen here’s the code like that. That was really revolutionary now I think that started the the trend in the Divi community in particular for sites like mine sharing what we knew so credit to you man I mean you were really the genesis of this i i was i got your tutorials all the time like I got to your site numerous times when I was building sites so I looked at you as like oh my gosh, Geno. He’s like the you know, he’s the man so for you to say that man. What an honor. It’s It is really cool to to you know, to be able to take what you started and and just kind of put my own flair on it and do what I do. So thank you, man. Thank you Brother.

Geno 6:57
I remember our what you when when we first started connecting separate with before everything took off and you were asking me about .co What do you think about having dotco? And I remember that and you know that’s that’s, I really appreciate that. And but I do want to I want to say that’s I think what makes Divi stand out, is that community, even like, there’s a lot of great page builders. No, I love them all. They’re all great. But I think that’s what that’s why I still stick with me is that community is is huge. Yeah, we all have Facebook groups that have like 20k members or more. And and there’s like 20 of them. You don’t see that with some of the other page builders or software products. And but yeah, you took it to a whole new level, bro.

Josh 7:47
That is true. That is true about Divi man, it really that’s one of the things that have kept me with it as well. I’m not against Elementor oxygen as some of these other pages. I have a lot of students who I would actually say about half of my audience and my members and my students are using other page builders, or they use Divi along with other page builders, which is fine, but nobody tells me dude, the Elementor community is the best I’ve ever heard. Like, I’m sorry, I’m sorry if anyone from Elementor is listening. But I still know nobody’s ever said that to me. But I do hear all the time from Devi, folks. So very well said yeah, I think I think that’s a really important aspect to the tools you choose. And with this conversation of how we market our businesses, and then how we connect online which is more important than ever. That’s huge man. So I guess actually, for the folks who don’t know you, Geno, who might be new to Divi or the WordPress ecosystem, do you want to let everybody know first off where you’re based out of? And what do you do with your with your business at Monterey premier premier?

Geno 8:49
Sure, great question wasn’t prepared for it. But uh, it’s been a while I’m in Monterey, California, Monterey Bay, kind of Monterey premier. That’s why I named a business what it is. I’ve been passionate about web design and graphic design in general all my life. It’s always been a dream and passion of mine to get into web design. I remember when I was 19 years old, which is a long time ago, I was a graphic designer just on paper. And my whole goal was to be able to put that online and just kind of share my art with the world. Then I realized like, well, web design is art. It is it is exactly what I was passionate about. So you know, that’s kind of how I got into it. It’s always been a side thing of mine until finally I felt it was time to just go full forward and go with it. So right now what we do is we focus on web design, and and hosting and maintenance. And really, it’s all about for me just working with somebody closely and taking their ideas, their vision and putting it to life. If and and I realized that’s my passion I you know, there’s lots of products and other things we could do in the community but come full circle, I realized that that’s my core passion is just taking somebody’s ideas or their their their business their idea their they got a business, but how do I make it? How do I design it and make it come to life for them. And that’s kind of my passion. And that’s where we’re at right now at Monterey premiere. I did that squirrels. And, you know, I’m just a big fan of Divi, obviously, and I’ve been using it for a while. And I still that’s still my passion is teaching others as well, and consulting and just helping, just like you, you know. So that’s kind of where we’re at right now.

Josh 10:47
Well, I like that you, you’re kind of bringing it back to like the basics of business, which is just the passion and the creativity part of it, because I feel like as we get further along in business, at this point, I could see you saying, you know, here’s exactly what we do. This is what we focus on maybe more of a numbers approach or, or something like that. But I love that and and maybe it is where you are in life, and maybe some of your recent experiences that maybe is that safe to say you kind of maybe have recently just gone back to the heart of why you enjoy building websites and what you do.

Geno 11:17
Totally, totally, I mean, and and it can’t say that it’s strategic or planned for something I had in mind, I think, really, for me that it’s, it’s a spiritual thing. Or Gods kind of brought me back to what is my passion? What is my gifting What is my calling, I went through the season where, expand, grow, build this large agency, we were doing social media, we were doing a lot of things we were we had a marketplace, as you know, before elegant teams came out with their marketplace. So we were selling other people’s products, we were creating products. It was it was awesome. It was great, but but kind of what I’ve come back to is, what is my passion? What do I really want to do, and it’s really become more about To be honest, more about the business, less about the business and more about life. More about my family more about my kids. And you know, I’m right now, I’m 46 years old. I’m kind of old for the game, but uh, I’m glad to be in it. And I love it. And I’m passionate about it.

Josh 12:26
Now I have a student who’s 72 How awesome is that? Like, oh, that is really cool. There are folks who are like retiring or bored or they’re just they want to do something to fill in the gaps with preparing for retirement or have something on the side. So man age is just a number that’s for sure.

Geno 12:45
Right? And right and even right now like what I’ve learned with with everything going on in the country, and just right now the times more people are realizing that they can do that. And yet you know, I’m doing more consulting work than I am web design. And it’s just that it’s people are learning that and I’m all like go for it, do it you can do this, you can do what I’m doing. I’m not I didn’t do anything special. just dig in be passionate about it. And that’s what I love about Divi and WordPress is you really can’t, especially right now, because everybody’s realizing like universities and teachers and stuff are realizing, hey, there’s more stability and creating your own business and doing your own thing right now that there is relying on unemployment. And the benefits are great, yeah, I balance it.

Josh 13:32
I actually love the landscape for both the online teaching side, which is what I’m doing. And I know you still have an active hand in some of that. And then also the online services side, which is really, really empowering for web designers. Because So as of course greater, more and more people are open to learning from a dude who just is sharing his knowledge with whatever that looks like or, or a gal who is a female entrepreneur who you know, has learned a lot and is a stay at home mom or something and is sharing what she knows through an online course, people are very open to that rather than traditional academia. Which is awesome, because I don’t care for that at all. I mean, depending, you know, depending on the industry, I don’t want my doctor watching YouTube videos, trying to figure it out. But you know that that’s my thoughts on that.

Josh 14:19
But Same, same thing for the services side too, though, like a lot of people I think, maybe 20 years ago or so. Even in just the digital marketing side of things went when websites became more popular and social media came up. At first it seemed like agencies had the upper hand. Yeah, now it’s flipped. Now, freelancers in small teams have the upper hand because no client wants to treat be treated like a number. They don’t want to necessarily have to pay more because this agency has overhead and payroll and expenses and 20 some employees with terrible turn coming in and out. They would rather work with the Monterey premier A small team or my agency and transit studios that has a small remote team Like Or freelancers when I was a solopreneur people loved having me as their guide or webmaster. So I love it. Man. I think the the landscape right now is more exciting than ever.

Geno 15:15
Yeah. And you give me the chills in that in because I think all you nailed it. You’re right 100%. And I’m sensing that here at Monterey premier. It’s like, now that we’re getting into the maintenance and hosting and doing like recurring revenues, which is great for us as a business model. But people, I was intimidated at first by charging high prices for that, right, like monthly maintenance. Like, I have a web designer who’s gonna pay 150 bucks a month for maintenance, right? Like I wouldn’t, because I do this for a living. But what I realize is that, right now people want that relationship they want somebody they can turn to they can talk to somebody that trill In fact, I just had a call with a good friend of mine, Kenny Lang, who I did a lot of work with in Texas. And he’s got a he’s a he’s got a great business and and our conversation was it’s just they were learning right now just be more real, that’s professional, more real, more open have opened, like the whole zoom thing, right? Everybody’s in the zoom, right? Because of the COVID. And all that, which that gave us an opportunity to just be me.

Josh 16:24
Dude, the entire world in turn the web design freelancer, we’re

Geno 16:29
Totally, it was like we were we were there. ready for it?

Josh 16:34
Yeah. It was our time to shine, man. Yeah,

Geno 16:38
totally. And so like, I do this on calls with customers all the time. I haven’t been on the podcast, like over a year. But I do this all the time with my clients. And I just I tell you, I love it. That’s why I’m like more about instead of like chasing down the next big thing. It’s like, let me just nurture these relationships. and have conversations like this be friends be a consultant, I could talk ministry with some of my most of my clients, actually, I can talk about my faith, and we’re just open, they could talk about their faith. Having that. I’m an introvert, just see. So this is kind of hard for me, but what I could just feel like, you know, I’m just gonna be myself.

Josh 17:18
You never know that. By the way, I would never I would never know. It was funny because we were before we went live, or maybe maybe we just when we started the intro, you said you’re nervous to come on. What’s so funny about how the tables have turned is that when I followed your site, and I went on Divi chat The first time I think you were on and I was like, Oh my gosh, I get to chat with Geno, you were like a rock star for me. So it’s so funny man, how, you know, things evolve, and things grow and change? And I don’t know.

Josh 17:49
But overall, I think you’re totally right. I think definitely right now, the world is starving for authenticity, authenticity. And businesses want to have somebody they know like, and trust. And there. I just think it’s all I think it’s awesome. Yeah, there’s a lot of changes. But there is such a powerful, powerful opportunity for web designers in particular, to do what we love to do. And the cool thing is, is we can scale up or down with whatever we want to do. And I think one reason I’m really excited about chatting with you, Gino is because you have had a lot of iterations in your business, and you’ve done a lot. And I’m sure there were some awesome aspects about that. But I would imagine every time there’s something that is really complex and is growing, there’s also a flip side to that, with how you manage it and time and balancing family life and everything. So I’m sure that’ll come into play here.

Josh 18:40
But I just all had to say authenticity is so important. And right now web designers are in a really, really unique spot because we can be ourselves, we can attract your vibe attracts your tribe, it’s one of my favorite quotes ever.

Geno 18:53
I love Yeah.

Josh 18:54
And that is so true with clients as well. I mean, that’s huge for somebody like me doing courses and a podcast and stuff. But as a web designer, you start getting clients who you attract. And once you get to a point where you you don’t need to say yes to every project, you can start saying no, and then really refine that down. And yeah, charge more. And I think one thing that’s really important that I was thinking about as you were talking about rates and your clients being willing to invest in services. I think one important one important thing to remember is that all of the changes that we’re feeling as web designers and entrepreneurs about how we’re maybe working less and being more intentional about subscription services and stuff like that. So are our clients, a lot of them like they are just because you may not pay 150 bucks for your website because you know, maintenance and hosting and WordPress, they don’t. And if they’re going to save four hours a month, then absolutely it’ll be worthwhile for them to invest in that. So I think it’s interesting. And on the idea of subscription models, something that’s come up more and more on the podcast recently is how the world is used to subscriptions like I have a subscription for like almost every everything in my life. So there’s no difference with that in business, which is.

Geno 20:05
And if you know what that brings up a good point, you know, I, one of the reasons I kind of been out of the picture for a while is a few years ago, I joined our local Chamber of Commerce ended up being asked to be president. So I’ve been president of our local Chamber of Commerce for the last three years, and I try to try to get out of it about a year ago, but it’s a lot of work. But what it’s done is it’s helped me have a tip, I didn’t do it for business, because business was good. You know, I don’t have any local clients. But I wanted to connect with my community. And the business guy wanted to meet other business leaders.

Geno 20:38
So that’s why I kind of joined the board of directors for the Chamber of Commerce. I didn’t need the business. I don’t do local business. But what it did for me was it gave me kind of a feel for other businesses. And so like right now, what’s really interesting is, we have new, for example, we there’s a carwash coming into town, and they’re going to do the subscription model. So instead of paying for each carwash, just join our membership, and you can get a car wash as much as you want. And I’m realizing like, even local, brick and mortar businesses are adapting to the subscription model.

Geno 21:16
It makes sense, it’s solid. But who would have thought that like a carwash would would, you know, join our membership $5 a month, and you can come and get as many car washes you want. We’re in California, there’s a lot of fog. We’re near the coast. People get a lot of car washes out here. A lot of fields and farms and stuff like that. But it is really interesting. People are adapting to that. And it surprised me because for for anybody out there listening that has, like why would anybody pay me $150 a month to take care of their website? Listen, people do and they would it surprised me. But that security, that assurance that it’s been taken care of, I had one client who has been my claim for a long time and I’m gonna I’m gonna name drop if that’s okay.

Josh 22:02
Hi, my name drop away. I love a good name. If it’s something bad that you want to call,

Geno 22:10
One of my favorite, he’s been my clients since I started. And he’s he does all his own stuff. He only calls me when he needs me. But the conversation we had yesterday was like, dude, I easily paid $300 a month to have somebody deal with CloudFlare by hosting company and Divi, you know, and elegant things, right? Because when you deal with hosting, you’re like, well talk to the theme developer. The theme developers will talk to CloudFlare CloudFlare is like we’ll talk to your hosting, right? And so this is it. Having somebody like us come in and just we know the routine. We know how to talk to flywheel. We know how to talk to GoDaddy, we know how to talk to we know how to tell them where they’re what they need to look at. It’s because it’s easy for us. But our clients are you know, they don’t they shouldn’t have to deal with all that.

Josh 23:01
Yeah and I do think I think a lot of clients tend to try on their own and then they’re like, okay, yeah, Gina take care of do, which is actually a great sale, great sales. Tax, I teach in my maintenance plan courses, if somebody passes on your plan, don’t make them feel stupid or bad. Let them learn the hard way. And then they will come back to you and they will pay whatever they you right.

Geno 23:26
On that note, I do want to name drop one more time. And I don’t know Kyle van dusen. Personally, he has a group called the admin bar, Facebook, and he has this thing called hwam. I can’t remember like, what Guam stands for. But basically, it’s a letter you send to your client, like when you’re they’re not ready for maintenance or hosting. And so it’s like okay, these are all the things you have to be responsible for. Yes, like a checklist of stuff.

Josh 23:52
Yeah, actually, it’s funny I just so at the time of recording this, the the new version of my maintenance plan course will be out version 2.0. What’s so funny about this is I was at the time of recording this I was literally at a coffee shop, tweak, tweaking and solidifying that I call like a liability clause that they sign off on. So it’s not to say it’s not to say that again, you don’t want to make your client feel stupid, but just let them know you by them not signing up for hosting and maintenance here is what they are responsible for. They assume responsibility for the following website updates, website backups, security monitoring, when and even when a client or a website gets hacked. what’s what’s the plan of action? What are they going to have to do? All that all that kind of stuff reported? optimization,

Geno 24:39
Do you sell anything like that? Do you have something on on the site that like that people can download and purchase and that would be awesome. It’s good.

Josh 24:48
So it’s in my main is playing course and it’s what we have in transit. Yeah. So it’s a part of the course that liability clause. And maybe I’ll just give like, maybe I’ll even do an episode or something. You know, kind of just maybe given some parts of that or something because that is really important when it comes to subscriptions, but I think overall though the really cool thing about that for clients now is it’s a lot different now and 2021 than it was even when I started my maintenance plan back in 2016 or even before that, because even then a lot of clients were a little apprehensive of paying monthly for something so even in the past five years have you seen this too like I’ve seen a dramatic difference with people being much more down with paying monthly for a subscription rather than big one time type of thing?

Geno 25:33
Yes yes. Especially now because they when you bring up like I use the analogy with my clients the iPhone right that they have software updates all the time we have to Microsoft we have to update all the time you never know what’s going to break and and when I explained to them like the dynamics of WordPress how it allows us to scale but the security updates are good you know the fact that they’re updating maybe we got 10 plugins on a site and they’re updating every every month you know that’s a good thing you know, because we’re constantly moving forward but there are risk involved with it you know, like

Josh 26:10
Right

Geno 26:11
It’s gonna crash you don’t I have my son just realized that we can’t update his iPad to the new version of Apple because of the age of the iPad right so yeah, you know, so it’s the same thing with our software we have to look at all the different the hosting the PHP levels we’re at right there’s just so much more to it now and and obviously I’m still just a big fan of open source like yeah, you can go to Wix you go to Squarespace nothing bad about them. I think there are certain clients that’s the perfect fit for them but it’s closed source and we want open source we want that freedom we want the ability to own our content. And so that’s why this whole open source community is so great because people take their own responsibility but it takes somebody like us to kind of be that middleman and say hey, like this is

Josh 27:02
Yeah, so you know, I’m curious with this topic that we’re on a maintenance plan and recurring subscription services for both our clients and us as web designers. It sounds like you’re reinvigorated with this Gino I mean I know you’ve always had a maintenance plan shoot when I got started with my maintenance plan and when I got started in Divi I looked at your site to kind of model some things off of your maintenance plan what made you recently want to kind of focus on this and focus on your best clients rather than some of the other service the services you adding coincidentally like was there something happened Did you get a break Did you hit a breaking point with all the numerous services you have with social media and the marketplace and everything else? And what made you decide to almost like simplify things? I mean that’s kind of

Geno 27:47
That’s a good question. I wasn’t prepared for that. I was not prepared for any of these questions. You know what actually because because I’ve been doing it for a while and I never push it really hard. I was not one of those guys that said you have to join our maintenance plan for me to do your website I just did websites in fact, most of the websites I did work for other agencies white label stuff like say alright, so they did all their own hosting and maintenance and that was great for me because I didn’t have to do any marketing they just kind of kept sending us jobs. But what happened a couple of years ago it

Josh 28:22
Real quick sorry to cut you off to you know our first episode for anyone who hasn’t listened to Episode 15 was on white labeling your web design services. So definitely for everyone listening go back Episode 15 you’ll you’ll hear all about how you did white labeling so sorry I just

Geno 28:38
Forgot that that was our topic. Yeah. And what am i white label partners in Texas, Paul Fleming another name drop because I just love the duty I appreciate him for doing this. He reached out to me I did a lot of work for him and he reached out to me said you know I’m getting out of the web design business, going into print media. I’d like to give you my clients I’d like to work something out so we work something out I acquired maybe about 20 monthly maintenance and hosting clients and for me that was the the kicker that was it because all of a sudden I have an opportunity to get like 20 clients that I I built most of their websites and that’s why he reached out to me so I knew them but they didn’t know me and and so I did my research I changed my hosting I figured out okay what do I got to do to do this legit to do this right? Take care of them and I did that.

Geno 29:34
I was nervous about it, but it ended up being so what was happening in 2017 I think was my peak year with the Divi marketplace. Elegant marketplace had just come out and I created an alternative to that elegant themes hadn’t quite. They talked about having a marketplace but they weren’t ready for it. There wouldn’t be yours. Obviously it just came out last year so it was several years. So things were kicking We were doing social media. We were doing a lot of marketing services. We had a very large team. But as I saw the Devi product market flood, I saw, prices go down. And it really wasn’t worth it for us to. I always told Jerry Jerry, another day drop Jerry Simmons, best developer I’ve ever worked with.

Josh 30:24
Yeah, he’s awesome.

Geno 30:26
So we used to talk about like, really the marketplace is more of a traffic. It’s kind of like a blog, right? It’s, it’s we get traffic, we’re not making money off of it. It’s a break even. But we’re getting a lot of traffic, we’re getting 1000s of visitors because they’re looking for Divi products. So that was why we maintained it for as long as we did. And we had products of our own, but you know, product support. I was really impressed with like people like WooCommerce and and lifter LMS Chris Badgett, what am I guys I look up to how they were able to turn their web design services into a product based company. And I look, I look towards that I really looked up to that. But I realized that a product supports not my passion, and I love the recurring revenue. But I like the creativity side of new builds.

Geno 31:18
So we kind of shifted away from marketing that and so I saw those monthly recurring revenues go down. And just as as Paul said, Hey, take over this monthly maintenance and hosting, which I used to avoid, because I hated hosting issues. I never found a good host that I can rely on. But I learned that I can’t In fact, Kenny Kenny, that I was just talking about earlier is the one who turned me on the flywheel. And I just learned to work with them. And that’s what got me into this and then ended up selling his business and given me a lot of his clients and now all of a sudden I have like 40, 50 monthly maintenance clients eautiful and that’s that’s what I had to learn through that that this is really cool. I like my regular clients that tired of the chasing another project.

Josh 32:06
And so yeah, that’s why I think maintenance and hosting plans coincide perfectly with with your type of personality, Geno, and everyone who likes the people aspect likes working with people and having clients for life and not just a one and done project. It also I mean, there there’s the recurring income aspect, which is huge. But it is definitely one of those things that I learned early on where whether you like dealing with hosting companies or not you are going to so you might as well get paid for it. That’s what I learned.

Josh 32:39
Like, I actually one of the big regrets I ever had in my business was I started hosting. And then I decided I was like I’m sick of being the middleman. I’m not going to host anymore. But guess what happened? When I had my clients sign up for their own hosting accounts, they would get cheap, terrible hosting, I would still get the call. They’d be like, hey, that’s my hosting. I’m like, well, you signed up for them. They’re like, well, I don’t remember Do you have a log in? Like No, I don’t have the login yet like that it was so much more stressful, not taking on hosting. So I certainly didn’t mean for this conversation to go too far into maintenance and hosting. But it is a bit it is a really big opportunity for us. And I think it’s a really important thing for our clients to have now and in the grand scheme of your other services.

Josh 33:19
Geno, I think maybe for people who don’t know your business or didn’t know it back then I think it’s important to know, your agency was a little bit different than the typical web design Freelancer or studio agency you are big on white labeling in your position as a Devi and WordPress expert, which really opened the doors for a lot of these white labels. And that’s why you had your marketplace. But my question is what happened more recently in the last year or two? I know you told me you really went through almost like a burnout stage. What happened leading up to having all that going on and eventually if you’re open to sharing about maybe a breaking point that you hit or what made you want to change some of these these service offerings?

Geno 34:01
Yeah, you know that it’s a great question. And you know what, I think what happened for me and maybe people can relate to this is and watching people Okay, so I have a passion for what I’m doing and there was a moment where I was in the spotlight Yeah, I admit it I got lucky I was in the right place at the right time. I got to be on Elegant Themes website, they did a video on me

Josh 34:30
I still see you all the time.

Geno 34:34
As reckless threats, I know strategic thinking and but what happened was, I think it was hard for me to like, I’m in the spot than watching everybody else. Rise above that spot, but I didn’t have that capability. I wanted to I I watched everybody in the space you included. You, David in Cory over at Aspen groves. And, you know, even Steve, when he handed over Divi space to, you know, the folks at Aspen groves and I just watch all their stuff going on and I felt like I wanted to compete. And that’s what burnt me out. It’s like I felt like I had to, I had to maintain this level of where all my where I feel like now my competitors, but my colleagues, my peers, yeah, we’re like going these cool directions and inside of me I was I felt like I could. And I actually I know I probably could have but at what cost?

Geno 35:47
And that for me, I was you know, I got involved with the chamber. I started a Home Ministry and in fact, when I started when I when I talked about planning a church several folks from the community reached out about buying Monterey premier.co very people I respected and actually considered I mean, another danger of Tim Strifler I love what he did and I really actually wanted to give him everything I did to get into ministry because I was at that place where I felt like I couldn’t compete the more and so it kind of I guess that’s kind of the burnout part where it’s like well I can’t do this anymore but then I realized what kind of one of the things God showed me over time was like well stick to what you love stick to what

Josh 36:32
Yeah,

Geno 36:32
Don’t try to don’t look to everybody and try to compete Don’t try to be what everybody else is doing I’m good at what I do. I may not be the spotlight the more but it’s not about the spotlight if my customers are okay with me and they they like me they keep coming back that’s all that matters right? And and this world right now where like yes, being online is important and you know you know last year when I tried to do the quick tips I was following your your role model You’re my role model and that I was like I could do that too. But it wasn’t my thing you know, I wasn’t I needed to focus on my clients and five stay in your lane.

Josh 37:16
That is sad that this is such an important point Geno because you It sounds like maybe on the outside those of us who were on your tutorial site at Kira ko every day or every week and seeing you on Devi chat and stuff it looked like from the outside that’s what you wanted to do like you wanted to be an influencer you wanted to be an authority but coming to find out doesn’t sound like that’s at all what happened that was all byproduct of you just sharing your stuff and like you mentioned right place right time you happen to be close to Elegant Themes and California may not close but you know they they got with you and featured you and you were early adopter of Devi and Devi chat had started you started getting on that.

Josh 37:55
But what is really interesting about all that is what I see as an outsider looking at this that’s kind of accidental success but you get to a point where it just if I’m kind of just analyzing this it looks like you realize Yeah, you didn’t necessarily want to be that guy or that person and I understand that comparison trap and the comparison game particularly when you have a brand like we do which is very similar we are Co Op petition. I really struggled with that to man when I started Josh Hall co my full intention I don’t know if you know this, Geno, my full intention was to do child themes, and maybe eventually plugins, I had no anticipation of teaching in courses.

Josh 38:40
So I had really thought about I was kind of keeping track of the designs I was doing because I was still running my business and I was gonna make a bunch of child themes. But similarly, I saw that marketplace get really competitive and really saturated. And then I also realized something I’m not a plugin guy, I just I’m not a coat like I’m good with CSS and I’m good with WordPress and that’s that’s about it from a technical perspective I’m much better on creativity and content and what I realize and this kind of segue I think back to what you realize what you stay in your lane, I realized that I was really good and really energized by three things, overall, helping people and I really enjoyed helping my clients too and it’s also why I loved helping people with tutorials.

Josh 39:25
I realized I was really good at teaching when I started doing tutorials which was a total test I just tested out doing tutorials I didn’t know what I was going to do with it how far it was gonna go I just I was like okay, what would Gino do I’m gonna do some tutorials and then I realized I’m actually really good number three a connecting people. I found that I was really good at connecting people with each other and even in my personal life. I looked back at like, a lot of my circle of friends. I was like wait a minute, I connected them and them and I connected them and am I actually a good connector.

Josh 39:57
So I realized how can I put All this together and it kind of sounds like maybe that’s what you’ve done over the past year or two is what are my strengths? What do I enjoy doing? I can’t look at everybody else and compare myself because that’s not me. That’s not what I want to do. And likewise, they don’t want to necessarily do what I’m doing. Like, a lot of people have said, I want to do it, you do. And I’m like, I don’t know, if you don’t know, if you do, I really don’t know if you should try to do what I’m doing. It’s what I’m suited for. And it’s what I’ve worked to do. I don’t know, if you’re going to like doing tutorials and doing a podcast every week. I don’t know, you know, you can try it. But do it for a month, and then let me know if you really want to continue to do it. So I say all that to say,

Geno 40:41
Because that’s true. It is,

Josh 40:42
it’s a really important point, we have to be so careful of comparison, whether it’s other people in our industry or colleagues. And obviously, as web designers, this is the big thing for web designers, we look at somebody else’s work, and then we’re like, oh my god, there’s so much better than what am I doing? I can’t design like them, I can’t code like them. It’s really, really dangerous. So I think this is such a valuable point of focusing on what you enjoy and what you’re suited for. And I feel like it doesn’t mean that you can’t grow into those areas. But if it’s something you just really don’t want to do, don’t worry about it like and I think for you Geno, what’s interesting is everything that you built up with Quiroz.co, and your involvement with dv chat and the way you have scaled up and scaled down and done different things with your business. It still got you to where you are today. So it’s not like any of that was wasted. You know, like, by building up keynote, CO and my premiere, you attracted all your white label clients, which sounds like are still a big bulk of your business today, right?

Geno 41:39
Yeah, absolutely. It absolutely is and on that point. I’m thankful that I got to go through those experiences. So like, even I think what initiated this is I made a comment on Facebook that I’m thinking about interviewing some clients and, and and, you know, I don’t I have not. I know like, like you just said, I know, like I’ve done the podcasting. I know, I’m not like that kind of person where I can commit to doing like what you’re doing regularly on a weekly basis. But I enjoy those. I enjoy these conversations, right. So like, I want to do that. And I do.

Josh 42:17
I was just gonna say my thinking is Geno. And maybe I was planning on getting into this later. But maybe it’s a perfect time to talk about podcasting, because we did talk about basically like me giving you a little coaching session on podcasting here,

Geno 42:28
Which I was looking forward to. Because because at first I was like, I don’t want to do a podcast, but if he’s gonna coach me, and I could ask questions, that’s totally cool.

Josh 42:36
I was gonna say is you’re doing it anyway, you’re having these conversations with clients, why not repurpose it? Like, I think interviewing clients from a service provider perspective, is the single most underrated and best way to build authority, have a lot of content to repurpose, and use it as a sales tool over and over and expand your network and learn and grow like, give me a half an hour, I’ll give you all the benefits to doing an interview series. So

Geno 43:06
You did he just kind of figured out my scheme, right? In the back of my mind, as much as I want to do that. You’re right, it is. I would I would say this, like, I think it’s an untapped market, talking with our clients and getting them and be able to do this. And it is a huge sales tool. I think it’ll help out our authority. Like my thought was doing it wasn’t because of that. But But I think in the back of my mind, I thought about it’s like, well, there’s a lot of benefit to that for my business and getting out there.

Geno 43:41
So I don’t have to do like this, this podcast interview thing, but I talked about it what on zoom, which I think everybody is doing right now with their clients. And I’m fascinated by what they’re doing. I have one client in Florida. Do you want to jump? They had Mike Rowe over to do what’s that dirty jobs? Right? Yeah. Interviews with Kevin. And it’s a great client and I’ve done three West they have three businesses. Okay, name dropping Guana control Comm. Check it out. These folks are great. And I’m like, how do you get into this business and you have Mike Rowe doing interviews with you and he’s impressed with what you’re doing and I’m impressed with what you’re doing. Another one of my clients is out in Georgia, they’re the national infantry museum. I’m impressed by what they’re doing. Like I learned so much about what’s going on in our country just by listening to what they’re doing.

Josh 44:32
And these are just happening when you just you happen to be talking with them talking to

Geno 44:37
My regular clients and and it’s like, I wish I I want to take those stories and share them with the world. You know, these are great, fascinating stories, and I have access to them. You know, people we like even if you’re just a web designer, and you’re freelance and you’re small time Think about your clients and what they’re doing. They have a story to tell. And I think it would help others just as much to we have a story to tell. And that would help you build authority. I mean, because I’m learning from it, but I feel selfish, like I’ve learned from all these people, but I’m doing nothing with it. You know? Go ahead go for Oh, no,

Josh 45:16
No, please go ahead. You know, I was

Geno 45:18
Just gonna say, I feel like I’m doing nothing with it. But But this could help somebody else. Maybe I’m not a dentist, but listening to their story and how they made a successful practice like fg dental, which I just did a redesign in Texas, Rockwall, Texas, I listen to their story, and I’m fascinated by it, how they grew him, like, you know, just entrepreneurial spirit chip, you know, just their their stewardship on how they take care of their employees, just so many things to learn from our clients.

Josh 45:47
Yeah. And they don’t need to be in the same industry, it doesn’t need to be like a lot of people just focus on like coaches or online consultants are saying, it doesn’t need like. So I say that, because one of my one of my close students, Marie, who’s in the UK, is, well, at the time of releasing this, it’ll probably be a couple months out there, but she’s doing a podcast. And she exclusively works with like female entrepreneurs, in a certain age range, a lot of stay at home moms and empty nesters and stuff. So for her, she knows her key demographic very well. So she knew when putting a podcast together, what type of challenges they have, what type of talks would resonate. But the interesting thing about just a open interview series with clients is that it doesn’t matter what industry they’re in a lot of the basic business principles apply to anything, right? And it can be really inspirational. I just, I don’t know, I’m happy to dive into my thoughts on this, Gino? Because and actually, I would love to hear from you. What was the jettison of this? was it? Was it just the fact that you were having these amazing conversations and you were like, man I want to share these are? Or was there any other hidden factors to thinking about doing some sort of interview series, either video or podcast?

Geno 46:56
That’s a good question. I want to hear your thoughts too. I don’t know that there was a can’t like pinpoint any significant aha moment. But I will tell you that being involved with the chamber this last year, and I’m seeing a lot of like, brick and mortar mom and pop shops close up shop because of everything going on, and just, you know, a lot of restrictions. I live in a small town. And so that got me really I got into listening to their stories. And, and that hit a soft spot in my heart, you know, it’s like, yeah, I wish I could do more. And you know, I did what I could to help as, as the President of the Chamber of Commerce, like I kind of went outside of my boundaries by helping them with social media just kind of giving them free services, or like, I really shouldn’t be doing this, but because they’re all reaching out to me, and I’m seeing what they’re going through a really just I think that was part of it, maybe, um, it’s just just totally outside of my scope of work. Totally not web design related. These, these are just businesses, and I’m trying to

Josh 48:07
It will and will be web design related. And well, because honestly, though, did it because when I’m amazed that the like different ways to get clients and filter them into web design, and a lot of that can be story driven, or seemingly unrelated, by doing any sort of podcast or client interview series, or sprinkling in case studies, or just sharing experiences, about their business and their strategies. And if any of you can, you know, work in web design and how they’re usually realizing their website, or even, that’s just a small fraction of the conversation at the very end or something, there are so many things that are gonna elevate you or anybody listening who is interested in this as the authority and the trust of person to to help.

Josh 48:56
And so my thought with any sort of interview series, what before I maybe get into some some things as far as why I think it’s awesome. There are a couple scenarios that I’ve seen this play out in real life that have been really helpful. One was one of my clients was an insurance agent. And he’s actually kind of an awkward guy. But he wanted to do it. He had just branched out on his own and started his insurance agency. And he was fairly well connected and are kind of like uj Gina, like, in the chamber of commerce in a Lions Club. He knew some people locally, and he knew a lot of stories. And he was like, one thing I’m thinking about doing this is when I was designing his website, he was like I’m thinking about doing like an interview series and just like once a week, featuring somebody local be a 10,20 minute conversation.

Josh 49:47
And that’s what he did. He had me on and one of the first episodes and we talked about a couple website tips. And so we’ve interviewed a bunch of people, different industries, and that single handedly exposed him to a massive network of people because everyone who was interviewed shared their interview and then I’ll name drop this guy Ed my client became the dude he became the insurance guy. And then suddenly he looked more likable and approachable and trustworthy and he was featuring other people. It wasn’t it wasn’t like hey, I’m new hire me, it was, Hey, I’m I do insurance. But let’s talk about this one of my clients or one of my colleagues, and what they’ve learned and all of a sudden, he became the trusted resource.

Josh 50:29
So that single handily I think he only did like 10 or 11 episodes and then he stopped because he couldn’t keep up he got so busy. So he ended up just it’s just kind of out there now as an old, you know, piece of content, but that really did expose him and boosted his network dramatically. I did this I don’t know if you realized, you know, remember when I did a series on scaling your web design business, you were one of the areas that was 100% a test on what I liked doing some sort of interview series, or what I liked, like it was like a test podcast almost, because I thought about doing something like that.

Josh 51:08
I did nine episodes, you were one of them still on my website, by the way. It was awesome. I learned so much. I gained huge traction in the community because you and others shared the episodes. I boosted my authority. And coincidentally I ended up hiring two people who have done eventually Jonathan, my lead designer came through one of your I think it was actually maybe your interview a couple others. I just had mentioned at some point that I was starting to scale and I was looking for help and I attracted to really great people who ended up being a big part of my team there for a little while.

Josh 51:43
So that was a great example of just doing an interview series it was just you know nine episodes see how it goes in so many benefits and then actually Eric, who is now the CEO of in transit studios who took over my business he did the same thing. Yeah, he’s on Divi chat now. Divi chat he he did a interview series with his local Chamber of Commerce and it really helped boost his web design business so there’s a lot of different reasons for it. But practically here’s I know a big part of this is like okay, how the heck do I actually do this? Like, how does it not fizzle out? How long do I do it? What’s the goal? Do I do a video do I need fancy gear? I guess I’ll turn the table over to you Geno we’ll have our little coaching session here again this is like a three in one type of episode it’s it’s good chats it’s lessons learned as a little coaching what what are your initial questions about this like?

Geno 52:39
Yeah, and you know before we get into the questions I just want to on your point I think I got this inspiration as you were talking you know how we kind of blended into the Divi world at the right time right place to part of its luck part of its you know, strategic.

Josh 52:58
I forced my way and let’s be very clear about that. I emailed David and said, Hey, I’d love to be on Divi chat sometime. I didn’t get found I forced my way.

Geno 53:08
All I know is that you were on the Elegant Themes blog. And they were they were like how’s this guy like suddenly connected?

Josh 53:18
Was a cool

Geno 53:21
How do you become the Yoda of Divi what I thought I was?

Josh 53:25
That’s true. That was that was a that was a little bit a slight luck although I don’t completely believe in luck because you have to follow it up and you have to do a good job. But it just so happened that Nathan the elegant content major lived in Columbus so I just reached out I just said hey man, I’d love to buy a coffee and that’s how it all started.

Geno 53:43
And that’s a good point. And the reason I bring that up is because there is intention oh that we have to take we do have to take that that step but what I love about what you’re saying right now is like you don’t have to be in that lucky spot like so a lot of our listeners are web designers, right? A lot of your listeners a lot of your subscribers. In fact I told a couple people weeks ago that I was gonna have a call with like Josh Hall really you’re gonna be on there like we have no Josh, we’re buddies. They’re like really

Josh 54:14
That is weird for me to hear. Man, that was weird. I don’t like that.

Geno 54:20
Cool, but but I think the thing is like, we don’t have to, like be at the Divi world or the web design world to get on the podcast to get familiar. So people like me, because they know, they see my face. I’ve been on some videos and so they kind of have an idea of who I am before we call most of the time, not all the time. Because that really helps. Like, if they’ve seen me before they know me they know what to expect and they’re already kind of open. So by doing the local stuff, even if you’re not like like a podcaster or you’re an introvert, just getting your face out there and finding an easy way to do it. Like sometimes we Do the facebook live streams or there’s all these recommendations right how to be an influencer, but just be yourself hop on a call with somebody recorded share it, you know, obviously ask them if you can share it. Right? That’s really that’s a simple start, because then that gets your face out there. And people see how you interact with somebody else. And that’s Gosh, that’s gonna be the biggest, like sales point that you could ever be.

Josh 55:21
Right, exactly. And I think going back to what we first talked about, with the new economy, the connection economy and stories being so important authenticity. The biggest thing, remember is that this is like the best way to cut through the ads. And the noise is, it’s organic, it’s real, it takes the pressure off you because you need to sell, you don’t need to be like, hey, hire me, here’s my prices. It’s just, hey, let’s talk about your business. By the way, this is what I do, I’d love to help you out. If you’re a good fit, boom, that’s all you do. You don’t need to sell past that, all you have to do is, is just talk to people and learn and grow.

Josh 55:58
And I think the really cool thing about any sort of like interview series or anything like that, because I know people listening might be like, Okay, this sounds great, I’m inspired. But how do I do this, I’m nervous, I’m not an interview, or I’m not good on camera. This is the thing to remember, you are already doing this right now. You’re just not recording it. And you’re not putting it out there in any other way. And you’re not let it you’re not utilizing it to sell you more and more.

Josh 56:22
So I hope I don’t mean to be judgmental on that. I’m just saying that is literally what’s happening because I had to tell myself that. Well, even before I started my podcast, I was having incredible conversations with folks like you and other entrepreneurs and web designers. I’m like, Man, what a shame that I didn’t record this, right. And somebody else can’t learn from this. Like I remember having a fuse, kind of just like strategy calls with folks like you or Tim and for with Wi Fi and David and some other folks. I’m like, man, I should have recorded that that was so good. Like it’s a shame that only I heard that. And I’m probably gonna forget about it and a half an hour like, I can’t remember I can’t go back to the timestamps and everything.

Josh 57:03
So yeah, yeah, I think there’s a lot of opportunity for that. And like I said, builds authority builds trust. The big thing is, though, is what channels you do it on. Yes. So podcasts. There’s a huge opportunity for podcasts. Because it’s the Yes, there are more and more podcasts out there. But the thing to remember is that if you do a podcast, most podcasts out there are active so you may do some but then it just kind of sits there and a lot of the algorithms don’t like podcasts just like a website. They don’t want to Google doesn’t want to favor a website that’s been out of date for three years and has nothing new published they want new, relevant alive. Same thing with podcast so yeah, there might be a lot of competition in some areas, but there aren’t that many people who do it consistently consistency is the key with podcasting.

Josh 57:55
Yeah, I actually heard that recently on a couple podcasts that listened to him the guy that makes a ton of sense. And Case in point I hate to throw out well I’m gonna name drop anyway. But our friends David and Tim, who run the WP podcast, WP the podcast, it I don’t know when the last time they’ve updated an episode. It’s still out there. But the reason my show and a couple other Co Op petition competitors are ranking higher is often because it’s more it’s rare. It’s like consistent, it’s coming out live. So there is a lot of power and I know that they are going to I think they’re going to reinvigorate that podcast but it’s just a good premise. It’s a lesson learned that consistency is the key Now, the trick is though, with interview series, you’re busy running your business I’m sure your question Geno would be like, how am I gonna have time to do this?

Geno 58:44
Well, totally, totally.

Josh 58:47
If it is going to I think there is a difference between a podcast and just a interview series or like a book of interview series. So what I would say is if you’re just gonna have conversations with clients, it may even be better and more impactful in the short run as just like a video series. That you could feature on your site on your blog. I’m not against making a podcast as well which that’s the beauty about like our conversation this is a audio podcast and it’s it’s going on my YouTube channel because we’re recording the video. So there’s a little more work involved with editing and post producing both of those but it’s a multi purpose thing this conversation.

Josh 59:31
So that would be one thing that you’d probably have to have a little bit of strategy on is like okay, I can make this a podcast but are you know, ever going to do it consistently or should this just be like a 12 week, or like two month you know, interview series that that could potentially help with deciding where you put this out which the cool thing about the interview series, like on YouTube or whatever is you’re not going to try to grow a YouTube channel off it but what you’re going to do is you’re going to use it to connect your clients and share their stories and build your authority. And you can always reference it like a year from now, you might get a lead that’s like, you know, we’re a dentist shop, we were interested, but we want to, you know, we’re looking at different options, you can be like, Well, one of my clients, I actually did an interview with them, here’s the interview, we talked about their business and the strategies they employed, and how we’ve helped them with their website. So it’s content you can use for a very long time. Whether you do that consistently week to week, or whether you just do like, a block of interviews.

Geno 1:00:34
That’s great. And that’s actually very encouraging to me personally, but that’s great advice. And I think you nailed it. It’s, I think, I think for somebody like me, it’s like, we’re afraid of that commitment. Do I do it and call it a podcast, but then I’m not going to do it anymore. I love that, you know, we’re just gonna do this video series. It’s not a podcast. You know that if it turns into one then great, but I think like you said, you were testing the waters with your first interviews.

Josh 1:01:06
I was just thinking, do you Geno You could do it in seasons. So the guys from Gravity Forms actually just recently launched a podcast for Gravity Forms. It’s called input. I was happy I was on one of their early episodes. I was interviewed with him, which is really cool. And the thing about that, though, it was interesting is they are doing the season approach. And James, that host, told me straight up, he’s like, I didn’t want to have to do something once a week forever. He’s like, yeah, I’m the opposite. I’m like, All right. So I don’t say yes, too much. But when I do, oh my god, I’m gonna do this once a week for a very long time. So that’s a gift and a curse for me, but

Geno 1:01:51
Well, for me, cuz you were persistent. And you are very accommodating. So I appreciate that. We were supposed to do this, like three weeks ago, things come up, and you’re like, Well, I have a busy life, too. So this works out good. Yeah,

Josh 1:02:05
That’s right. Yeah, we’ll do it. That’s the thing about consistency with scheduling is those these things do come into play when you’re doing a lot of interviews and stuff. And I know that’s an apprehension for people. They’re like, Oh, my gosh, you know, interview, it’s a whole different ballgame. But I think to start out simply, what I would do is I would do like a, even if it’s like a nine, like if you have nine clients or 10 clients who have great stories, just do those like set those up, just do like a, you don’t have to record one once a week, you can record them in bulk.

Josh 1:02:40
That’s honestly, if anyone wants to know how I do one podcast, actually, we do six podcasts a month now, for interviews. And to solo, the way I do that is I do them in bulk. So at the time of recording this genome, I’m like two months out right now, on podcast. The only way I did that, though, is because I do a lot of them in bulk. And then like, over the next 30 days, I think I have one scheduled because I just don’t need to record that many this next month or two. So you could absolutely do them in bulk. You know, take a couple weeks, record a bunch of the calls, and then boom, there’s your content for two or three months that you can schedule those out, you don’t need to worry about scheduling calls again for a while, you can just do them in bulk.

Josh 1:03:22
So I think overall, if anyone’s doing any sort of interview series or something like that, I definitely am a big proponent of podcast. But consistency is where a podcast will really grow. Because people do want to hear that consistently. You could do in seasons, that’s totally fine. But what I would probably do myself is just start out with like an interview series. And do you know just 6,7,8, 9,10 whatever interviews, do them over the period of a few weeks or a month. And then once you have them, schedule them out. And then you know, once a week, once a week, schedule them out, that’ll give you time to promote it and to let them share it with their people.

Josh 1:04:04
And again, make sure you put it on your website though that and I’m not I’m not telling this to you Do you know this? But for anyone listening who’s like, why do you need a website nowadays? Well, none of my listeners think that but their clients do. That’s it. That is the archive it is you can refer back to these all the time. Try it out. If you like it, you’ll get better at interviewing, you’ll get better. What’s really a trick to interviewing is just to be curious. That like I used to I used to remember remember when we did the interview series, this was like, I think we recorded it and maybe at the end of 2017 because I released it in January of 18. But remember I sent you like a list of questions. Like here’s some questions we’re gonna hit. That can be helpful, particularly when starting out but I never do that anymore.

Geno 1:04:48
Really? I was wondering like what am I going to get my list of

Josh 1:04:55
Every once in a while I’ll do if it’s a topical type of You know, topic or if there is a case where we want to stay on point with something or have an end goal, I will maybe make a list of questions that I might have just a reference. Sometimes I’ll send them over to a guest, but that’s pretty rare. Now generally, we just I just have a combo. Honestly, the best thing you can have, as any sort of inner interviewer is just curiosity. And again,

Geno 1:05:23
That’s a great question. And I meant to ask you that, since you get interviewed a lot, now you’re on a lot of podcasts. I try to follow them all. But do they send you questions? Or is it kind of like what you’re doing with us right now? Just open conversation?

Josh 1:05:36
When they come on my podcast?

Geno 1:05:38
No like when you’re invited onto other people’s podcast? Do they send you anything in advance or?

Josh 1:05:46
Depends, I don’t do that many interviews right now, mainly because I just I don’t push it. Eventually, my plan in 2022 is to write my first book. So once that comes out, I will do a push to like get on other podcasts.

Geno 1:06:00
I didn’t know that you were gonna bring that up but that’s kind of one of my goals, too.

Josh 1:06:03
Here we go. Let’s talk about that next. This is dangerous See, what our to do lists are gonna like to do lists are gonna be huge. And you’re gonna wake up at three in the morning and say, dammit, Josh, you gave me a you gave me too many ideas. Nobody’s as far as like being interviewed. It kind of depends on the show and our relationship so they may have a topic in mind and I’m like, absolutely, I’d be happy to talk about that. I think in most cases sound like when I was on the gravity forums, the input podcasts recently they actually gave me a topic the host James had in his his mind, he was like, I would love to talk about this type of topic and do it with your experience.

Josh 1:06:47
Do you have experience in these and I was like actually Yeah, I was like, that’d be really interesting. It’s kind of cool because it breaks up my typical spiel because I do have a I have a media page if anyone wants to check it out. Just go to Josh Hall co slash media and you can check us out if you want Geno it’s literally a page of like, here’s my headshots here’s a short bio here’s a big bio. Here’s a bunch of topics that I’m interested in or can talk about you know without a list of bullet point list and I learned that because I get sent those with guests. Now sometimes they’ll send me to their immediate page and I’m like oh I like that same thing with podcasting like it is in web design you build your website and then you just rip all your friends off into your sweet website and there’s business lesson no one rip everybody off until you look awesome.

Geno 1:07:39
Inspiration man inspiration that’s what I call it

Josh 1:07:43
A much nicer way to put it

Geno 1:07:48
I in fact I made my whole start ripping off Kenny Sing over at Elegant Themes and learning what he was doing with his designs that’s why I love to look at themes was actually because of his design and all my early tutorials were ripping off what he did with like monarch when they came out with the plugin and they made away so I ripped off how to do all that stuff which eventually became Divi you know like built in the hiding header and stuff like that and and having like like images offset off to the side where you see half the image and all those things I’ve ripped off from his stylesheet with inspiration man.

Josh 1:08:25
That’s great look You and I are a prime example of ripping off because I delco I’m Josh Hall co It doesn’t get any more doesn’t get any more plain than that so honestly man I think ticked kind of put a cap on the interview podcast stuff there is a lot of room for Gino and I think because you’re having these conversations you’re just a lovely guy to talk to you would have no problem you know having a really good I mean you’re you’re having these conversations again it’s like like you mentioned earlier what a shame What a shame that no one else hears that story so the big thing is though here there a couple couple important points on this which eventually I’m hoping to do a pod of course on podcasting.

Josh 1:09:09
I just it’s obvious as you know it’s a lot of work to build a course I would need to make sure the audio I have the audience to buy that many courses to make it worth the time but I will give a couple points on podcasting. The The more you over produce and over edit, and the more you add in with show notes and everything like that, that’s what kills you like right? Yes, production is what will kill people sell. A lot of people try to cut out arms and ahhs and use fancy software and I don’t do any of that. The only time I cut anything out is if there’s a long pause or we need to take a quick break or something or like if I’m doing a solo episode, and I need to take a drink of water. I’ll generally will cut that out. But the the overproduce overproduction is a killer so keep it raw, keep it organic.

Josh 1:09:56
Honestly, I think it’s better that way. Who wants to have Like we’ve all listened to podcasts and videos where there’s no Dead Space there’s no second of pause it’s always chopped out it’s it’s noticeable that it’s it’s like an auto tune song It’s like they’re not really singing they’re not really singing that that’s totally totally we want it real we want it Raul we want to just authentic. I think it also gets down to what is a podcast or an interview. It’s just a conversation. So there’s no need to make it there’s no need to over produce something and make it is like if you’re gonna do a promo video or tutorial video that’s going to be found on YouTube. Yes, I edit those more I produced those more odd visuals but this conversation Gino, here’s exactly what I’m gonna do. I’m gonna export this, once it’s done, I’m going to throw it in our Drive folder, I’m going to write up the show notes.

Josh 1:10:52
While I do now because I have a VA who does the actual production of the distribution of the episodes the outlines and transcriptions. Then I have Nathan here you saw on social media, my editor, I just give them the file, I write the title, a quick intro about what the episodes about any, any special links we mentioned. And that’s it. Well, we have an SOP a standard operating procedure in place where they do the rest. Now, it didn’t start off that way. I did everything in the beginning and it was a lot but even the podcasts in the early days at the end of 2019 it was way more simple than it is now. The show notes were very simple. I didn’t have timestamps or an outline or transcriptions it was just fairly simple. So I think overall, it’s so so important to start off simple and then add complexity later on.

Geno 1:11:40
That’s an important because yes, does folks like us, we look at what you’re doing and it is a How do you do it? It’s it’s like yeah, it’s very impressive. And like you said the show notes and the timestamps that’s a that can be intimidating. Yeah, I started

Josh 1:12:01
I don’t do any I don’t do any of that shout out to Kam who’s listening to that right now and then and the timestamp she’ll she’ll put how awesome Am I you know, how awesome is Kam and

Geno 1:12:11
You know, it’d be cool if you can put some links on this episode on some of the those because that’s one of the other things too when I did Divi chat and we’re just getting started out I didn’t do any of the backend work I just kind of joined the cast but I remember Leslie and, and David and Cory and all the stuff they did behind the scenes and it was over my head like all the stuff that’s alive to get it out in these different channels and all that stuff. So that would be cool to I’d actually really be interested in if he did an episode on that like just setting all that stuff up.

Josh 1:12:46
Yeah, well there really isn’t. There isn’t any fanciness with linking and outlines. I mean we The reason I implemented transcriptions a full transcription of the episode is because First off, I started ripping my mentors off and they all had transcriptions. And there’s not that many people who read the transcriptions but because I have a global audience, this is the difference between probably what you’ll do with interviews with people in the states versus a global audience. I do have a lot of people who don’t speak English as a first language so a lot of people reach out to me and say they love the transcriptions because now they can read it they can read it and listen or follow along.

Josh 1:13:27
I had one student who actually told me she’s learning English by listening my podcast which terrifies me because I I’m not the person I’m not the person that take English lessons for every podcast I usually make up a word so but you know, it really it can be that thing where you can overdo it with the outlines and the tenant timestamps and stuff add that in later if you want Yeah, that’s my podcast is a massive massive part of my income now because it’s it has grown to the point where it’s a huge converter for my courses. It’s the number one converter for my courses. So I’m gonna invest I’m happy to produce at least one episode a week I invest you know and my VA Kam who does all the episodes and does the pose and invest in my editor Nathan because it saves me so much time.

Josh 1:14:20
But again start out simple and I think when it comes to the daunting this of like a once a week thing, again, just do a series or just do a season one have a light at the end of the tunnel for me Do you know when I did tutorials, this one was one reason I was able to grow my YouTube channels because I just did 12 tutorials I committed once a week. I’m gonna do a tutorial some of them were a little more intricate. Some of them are just a quick five minute here he’s a Divi tip that I I use. Kind of like you did with Kira ko and a lot of times I linked back to your tutorials. I was like, I got part of this from here, check out Geno’s tutorial for the rest or you know Here’s some other options. That’s a big one here similar tutorials which now we’re getting into the SEO realm. Yeah, you start linking to other sites as you very well know and you probably teach your clients and stuff. You get backlinks and internal links and those are all really good for SEO. So yeah, we haven’t even talked about the benefits of SEO.

Geno 1:15:22
We could go for hours.

Josh 1:15:25
For Joe Rogan, this could be a Joe Rogan podcast Three hours later here. But yeah, that that really is that’s that’s a crucial part of it. So you know, my putting on my coaching shoes, I would do like a 10 part series, scheduled all the interviews out over a few weeks, maybe a month, it you don’t even have to like get the show ready, you could record all those interviews first, and then promote the show because you really don’t need that much lead time. Like, you don’t need to promote a show for three months, you can have a bunch of interviews ready and then you know, you whether you just added on Monterey Premier as a blog category. Do you guys have a YouTube channel?

Geno 1:16:03
We don’t do much with it. Well, now with the interview series, I will let you know my biggest takeaway right now is I don’t know why I never thought about this before, but I treat social media that way we’re like, I’ll spend the day working on all my stuff for the month. Right? And it kinda is what your what, what you’ve revealed to me is that we can in a similar way, do that with our bodies and just kind of do them put them all together, then schedule them out. You don’t have to do one, put it out, do one and put it out because a guy where I, I accomplished something I wanted out there right away, like I wish this episode would go live today.

Josh 1:16:42
I know it’s gonna, it’s gonna kill me having to save this one.

Geno 1:16:48
But but this is the biggest takeaway for me is, that’s a great idea is just being able to, you know, just just do them, you don’t have to have that weight of putting it out. You don’t do it and just have like several and decide which ones you’re gonna do and schedule them out. That’s huge. That’s a big takeaway for me.

Josh 1:17:05
And I have to remind my self that to like my YouTube channel for a while I neglected doing any new videos or tutorials other than just the the podcast, the video version of the podcast, because I did feel daunted over it. So I still feel those feelings, too. But I realize it’s such an important aspect of my business that what I decided to do. And what I do remember remind myself is I don’t need to literally record a new tutorial every week, I can record a few tutorials one day, if I wanted to, if there are 10 minutes tutorial, I can record it, put some links in place, then record another tutorial, then record another one, then there’s three weeks of content that I can schedule out there, it really is a great reminder for any sort of content marketing.

Josh 1:17:46
So yeah, that’s what I would do. The podcast aspect of that could be really beneficial. The other thing I wanted to mention that with podcasts in particular, is you have to be really clear about your your audience and who’s listening, because with business owners, they generally aren’t going to be listening, and they will they listen to podcasts, but they probably aren’t going to listen to it as much as web designers and creatives. So you may get a little more bang for your buck with just YouTube video. And then they can share it on LinkedIn, or all these other social media or in a chamber or an online community.

Josh 1:18:24
Like, I think you should put those on your YouTube channel. Don’t expect the YouTube channel to grow by the 1000s of people just because you put interviews on it, it’s likely that there there might not be that many watches but there’ll be quality watches, and they’ll share it and again, you can reference it back over and over and there’s something powerful, powerful about video. And here we go Geno, here’s my favorite exciting part. You could whether you have a video editor who would want to do this or you can go to splashy seo.com I’m not sure if you’re familiar with that.

Josh 1:18:59
There’s a there’s a bunch of tools like this where you can put videos in and you can create like a segment and it’ll give you a nice it’s flashy, calm, I still use them along with my video editor Nathan, depending on what the video is, you can you can cut part of your video and it will you can add like a custom title. And it’ll do the subtitles and little progress bar automatically. All you have to do is put it in there you can choose what colors you want whatever theme you can add your logo if you want and within 24 hours didn’t lead they’ll send you the video and then you can post that on Facebook, Instagram, whatever. And what I would do is just a segment of the interview that has like a really good snippet use that to really promote it and that’s one of your clients one of your clients stories it’s it’s a great way to repurpose the content and just put those bite sized pieces out there. So

Geno 1:19:53
And it benefits the client as well. I mean that’s that this is a cool tool. Thanks for sharing this but you can check it out right now.

Josh 1:20:00
Too it’s really the cool thing about that as well for your clients is like if you’re upset okay so your client Steve, I just made up a name but I’m sure you have a Steve mentioned to Steve a little bit yeah, so

Geno 1:20:12
We’re not saying what you see is this

Josh 1:20:17
Random Steve, you do an interview with him and you’re like Hey Steve, your interview is live here you go well if he shares it to his professional audience, and it’s just the video yeah, a couple people who really like Steve might be interested but they may not you know, want to spend a full hour but if Steve shares his little snippet that is 50 seconds long that is just you and him. And that snippet is a really good point that he made then somebody is like, Oh, actually Steve I really good point. Maybe I do want to check that out. They check that out. They get to hear Steve’s interview. They’re like, wait a minute, who’s Gino? Okay, Gino has this agency actually our website freakin sucks. Maybe I like Gino. The trust is already there. So that’s how that all fits in. Right? It is definitely worthwhile particularly if you’re just going to start with like 10 episodes or whatever to do those repurpose those little snippets you splashy Oh Lord there’s a bazillion tools online for repurposing content now but that will definitely help engagement it’s it’s something I’m doing as much as I can it’s definitely a time commitment if you’re going to like look through the episode export it out but it’s really worthwhile to do that.

Geno 1:21:27
Right that’s a great tip and this goes back to freely sharing what you’ve learned and what you do and that’s huge that that right there is like gold to me I you know.

Josh 1:21:39
Here’s the other big benefit I got to throw in there all the benefits are just coming to life for me now as we

Geno 1:21:46
Bring it brother here’s here’s

Josh 1:21:49
here’s what I’m extra excited about and one reason why I I’m able to do as many episodes as I do now you’re not responsible for creating the content right all you do is ask questions and learn like that’s the beauty. Now sometimes with my podcast I will have an idea and I’ll mention it to somebody and say like hey like let’s talk about this maybe or we have a like recently I had Tim Strifeler with Divi life on to talk about the five his five step guide for speeding up websites Yeah, that was really tactiles like Tim Would you be willing to come back on and share this.

Josh 1:22:26
But in a lot of cases if you’re just going to talk to your clients maybe you can have an end goal or something you know that you know they did really well that you want to sprinkle in there but a lot of times it’s just listening and just being curious and learning from them and there’s your episode so there’s it’s actually way easier I think to do interview stuff because like you and I know Gino, we don’t need to plan out a bunch of blog posts and write it all out and link it and create the video and then edit it like it’s honestly a lot easier. It is draining to do an interview in the beginning for sure. But there’s a whole different approach to content creation because you’re not literally creating it, you’re just hosting it you’re you’re just literally asking questions. So I hope that’s freeing as well. When you do these 10 or 10 interviews, or whatever it is you don’t have to write out 10 topics and you don’t have to put bullet I mean you can basic approach if you want but you don’t need to write 10 blog posts and do your all you need to do is to step the call and ask questions and learn that’s it.

Geno 1:23:28
That’s totally what what drew me into going into interviews instead of trying to do a podcast because I’ve had friends that like we should do one and other people that are more driven that I’d love to be part of a with Debbie chat, you know, Stephanie’s she’s always reaching out to me saying, hey, you’re always welcome back on anytime, any topic, whatever. And they’re great over there. And I just kind of, but this is different. You’re right. It’s like this is a little bit more. I guess one thing I want to say is for a lot of us that are doing this are introverts. I think a lot of web designers web developers are that’s why they gravitate to this kind of role. But but doing it freely. Like I think a lot of us are like, I can’t do that I but I am an introvert. I’m not an extrovert. I can’t be on this. But that’s the great thing about this approach is that it’s even better because if you’re an introvert, this is a better way to put yourself out there before you get the call. So that way you don’t have to sell yourself on the phone because you’re already out there.

Josh 1:24:27
Exactly. Like first, like I said earlier, you’re already doing it. If you’ve ever done a call with a client on zoom, you have done an interview. Totally That’s it, record it and put it out there. Now the other thing is, when you sign up, do an interview series or a podcast. You’re not booking out a stadium or going to a auditorium and sitting in front of 1000 people. You’re doing everything that you’re doing in your home office, so I definitely I understand the introverted extra thing, I have my own areas of introversion, for sure. And in the beginning, I was terrible on camera. But what I realized is that I was really good one on one with clients. And then when I started doing more calls and stuff, I mean I was I didn’t really do any zoom calls as a freelancer into later on in my career. It was very different in 2012, and 13, and 14, what I realized is like, if I can do this with a person in a coffee shop, why can’t I do it over zoom or on a call?

Josh 1:25:30
I get really, and then the end? Yeah, you get better and better as you do. You’re no one’s gonna be amazing, the first time they do something, you’ll get better at asking questions and doing interviews and stuff. But at the end of the day, you’re already doing it. Yeah, make it work for you. Like, right, instead of, instead of having these amazing calls with a client and learning a lot this, you know, share it out. And if you just add a little bit of intentionality, there’s so many benefits that that come back, I think a really important point, I want to cap off on this, in particular, add a light at the end of the tunnel, just do you know, 10 a golden, have a goal, try it out, I promise it’ll be worthwhile. Even if that’s the only series you ever do, you can it’ll be a great little boost of business, and you can always refer back to it. It will spur other ideas on. But there’s literally no there’s no like no downside to it there honestly is like no downside, there’s a downside to doing a big marketing plan and running ads, you might lose a lot of money and you may not get, there’s a downside to going to a networking event. You may spend some time and spend some money and not land anything. And it might be a waste of time. There is no downside to doing an interview series you’ll grow, you’ll learn and you’ll you’ll make deeper connections, I will put my money on the fact that you will build authority and likely get some work. So I think I think that’ll be huge man.

Geno 1:26:54
For anybody that’s still on the fence. If you’ve landed one client, you’ve done it. If you’ve been able to learn one client that’s that’s that’s your that’s your right now I’m saying that you’re, you got it, you can do this. Because if you lead one client, right, that means you have a person of all ability to relate to somebody. Yeah. And they connected with you. They like you so he would have all you’ve had as one client. That’s enough reason to say that, hey, I can do this.

Josh 1:27:24
Absolutely. Yeah, it’s kind of like a sales rule. In general, if you sell one you can sell to you sell two, you can sell five 5,10 10 100 and so on, you know it really like yeah, I I think the I think it is a very untapped lead generator and traffic generator. One question I would have for you, Gino is, who is this for that’s another big thing we talked about with, you know, when it comes to putting out your content, because the danger that a lot of web designers face is when they do content, they end up attracting other web designers or di wires, and you don’t necessarily want to do that. That’s one thing I advise Marie with her podcast, she’s in my web design Club, which is my membership. And we do weekly calls, and she came on at the time of recording this, this was yesterday that we talked so it’s perfectly fresh for this conversation.

Josh 1:28:11
But I advised her like you got Gavin, be careful of getting the DIyers that are never gonna pay you for anything. So cater your content towards your ideal, you know, people. So I guess to you, who would this be for? Is it for white label partners? Is it is it for maybe expanding? You know, honestly, for you, Gino, I would think you’ve already got some great clients, How awesome would it be to get into their networks? Because they are they will likely no other really good clients? So it’s like, it’s who you know, what’s the old sales thing? Like, if you get a really good client, you want to try to get more people like them? And they probably like or they probably know people who are similar to them. So you that’s one of the best organic referral ways in the name this can really help. So is that kind of what it’s all about? Maybe more clients who are in your zone in your network that might be on the outside? What do you think about this?

Geno 1:29:06
I will say this, I will say that right now that’s not ultimately my goal. But I will tell you this that because of the videos and the podcast that I was on Originally, it was a super blessing to have clients call me that felt like they already knew me. Like I get on a call and it would be so outgoing and they say hey, by the way, I’ve been following you for a couple years I’ve seen your video and and then it’s like, oh, this is great. I’ve already saw I don’t. I’ve had people tell me like I don’t even care what your price is. I’ve already sold on you. I’m going with you. You just tell me how much it’s gonna cost me. And that’s because of the videos, the podcast, just being myself being out there.

Geno 1:29:47
So yeah, I mean I think if you’re just starting out and your goal is to grow your business, just putting yourself out there helps. Helps that first sales call if they’ve been able to see your video or something like that. So if I’m just starting out that I would be targeting my clients locally, so I’d be doing interviews with my local clients and putting it out there it hashtag Monterey hashtag Monterey Bay, you know, and I do that right now with the chamber. So I realized that it’s really easy to get a local following. And but right now I think for me, my goal right now is, I think maybe this is a segue and I know we’re almost out of time.

Geno 1:30:27
But I think I’m kind of gearing like you towards writing books and thinking about the next step of my career. I want to see Monterey premier grow and but I don’t think I necessarily need to be a part of that. I think I want to see it go kind of like you did with a transit where you’ve realized like, I could let this baby go and grow and still be a part of it. But I don’t need to be in the day to day operations. And I know I thought about doing courses that I will one day but I think for me right now it’s about gathering insight and knowledge. So like when I do put together a book, which I’m really, really thinking about doing I’m working on my writing skills right now is be able to share just what I’ve learned experience, you know, and it doesn’t have to come from my experience. Just we have unlimited resources with the people we work with, uh, you have amazing resources, you have so many, so many people in your courses and in your groups that you’re talking to. You’re going to put out a book before me I know and I’m going to read it inspired by it to even move faster on that.

Josh 1:31:33
That is a good race have a nice friendly competition for us.

Geno 1:31:40
Each Other let me do a review for the for the cover of your book. And I’ll ask Hey,

Josh 1:31:47
I would love to have a foreword by Gino are. Absolutely Yeah. The thing was hanging with the power of connecting that that really is where it’s I think that’s another big thing of the interview series that you connect a lot of people with each other, you will be a connector. Again, there’s just no, there’s no bad things that can happen from it.

Geno 1:32:07
I can’t do it. And we do this like for a living. So this is not too foreign for us. But for them it is. And so for them, this is a big deal. Right?

Josh 1:32:16
That’s a great point. That’s a really good point, when’s the last time your dentist client was did it interview you know, but one thing that is actually really cool about that is sometimes when you get somebody talking about their business they don’t like most local business owners are in an online community. Or if they’re not in a networking group, maybe they are a part of the chamber, maybe it’s like a once a month thing. Most people don’t really get to share about their business and what they’ve learned. So it really won’t take much for most people, if you just ask them tell me about your business, they will work they you know, they will just it’ll all be pent up and they’ll just they’ll just go for it. So that’s actually a really powerful thing and they’ll be excited and then they’ll share it like the strategy for marketing and promoting it is fairly easy to because just let them promote it like share it and then share it with who you think would be really good. Obviously the socials an email blast, but let them share it. It’s a really great way to do that.

Geno 1:33:16
It takes it takes a it’s a load off you it really is because yeah, it is that they’re they’re marketing for you. Yeah, it goes back to the whole white label thing.

Josh 1:33:28
Honestly, you know, that would be my challenge for you is just to do a series, I wouldn’t worry about making it a podcast yet. Although I love podcasts, I think you in particular in your case would get a little more bang for your buck just with the organic, you know, referral sources and traffic and stuff like that with a video that could be shared and spliced up put on LinkedIn different places. I really think that’d be pretty powerful and I think you’ll find out it’ll be it’ll be pretty awesome. So

Geno 1:33:57
That’s cool stuff. I appreciate that. I’m gonna definitely that’s that’s the plan. I’m gonna do that. I’m gonna do that.

Josh 1:34:07
Sweet man. I’m pumped. what’s the what’s the book about?

Geno 1:34:12
I’m not sure yet. You know, but my thought was I’m gonna start writing I’m gonna on my own blog on the Monterey premier blog. I’m gonna start doing leadership topics and I kind of think it’s gonna I don’t know exactly but I think it has to do with leadership just kind of what I’ve been through you know with the chamber, with Divi, the Divi community, some of the Facebook groups I I lead and having burned out being in ministry and stuff like that. Um, sometimes we fall into being a leader and we don’t realize it like you are right now you are I don’t know whether you think of yourself as that but you are leading the community. You’ve kind of feel like you’ve taken the realms of the Divi community that The, the you’re leading the charge in the Divi community right now and it’s really exciting for me to see.

Geno 1:35:07
So I kind of want to talk about that too like being able to hand off would be encouraging to those who are taking over where where you left off and being stoked about you got to be a part of it. So we’re investing now in the future and kind of goes back to my, my hat you know, encourage the next generation that kind of goes back to ministry to it’s like we all have to be thinking about the future and it’s not going to rely on us and not just our family, not our business but the community we have a great community and I’m learning how to let go and get my blessings and be okay with that mentally and emotionally. You know, knowing that stay in your lane what’s your lane you know, what is God have for you? So I think that’s what my books gonna be about. I think that’s just where my life lessons are right now it’s like how do we be good leaders and how do we end well? How do we finish the race well, right we don’t want to burn out we don’t want to become one of those angry irritated old people frustrated complaining about everything right how do we get past that and and and the race well?

Josh 1:36:22
The one another great thing to have on your business website to your own book. Like that’s something my business coach recommended to me He’s like, you should write a book and I was like, Alright, if you know I’ve learned that if somebody who’s really successful and is like way ahead of you in the journey they say to do something, I’m gonna take that very seriously so it’s

Geno 1:36:42
Gonna be about?

Josh 1:36:43
Well and I just want to say real quick for us you know, I think that’d be awesome because it really encapsulates everything that you’re passionate about and what you’ve gone through in one and for those who aren’t watching but are listening your hat says teach learn build love If I were to make my own hat it would say learn build teach love because that’s kind of what how my journey ended I learned web design and build a lot of websites I teach it now I love it so either way however you put those words in there but yeah, it’s interesting to hear you say that I you look view me as like the the main Divi guy, because I don’t view myself like that.

Josh 1:37:20
Now, where what going reason being is because like half of my audience doesn’t use Divi. Yeah, that’s what I realized. And this is why I’m so good because I almost did the whole brand is Divi web designers calm I almost made that like my brand. My brand that’s my facebook group is the Divi web designers Facebook group, which is now basically just a huge Divi support group. But I almost made my whole brand around that and I’m glad I did. I’m still a Divi guy, I still use Divi, but I did recognize that when I started teaching, I got a lot of people who weren’t actually that far into a tool they were into the business side of things, the idea of like staying in your lane.

Josh 1:37:59
For me personally, that’s what helped me get out of the idea of doing plugins and child themes that I didn’t want to compete with Tim Tim is one of my best friends in the Divi community. I don’t want to be the next dibela I can’t keep up with him. He’s way better at what Cory was did with Divi space and has been grow. There’s no way I want to compete that that’s not my area of interest. What I am good at is again the the the interviews, the podcast, the the teaching aspect, I love doing courses I get in the flow when I’m doing courses. So I realize this is this is what I’m going to focus on all sprinkle in Divi in tools and tips and tricks and stuff like that. But at the core, I’m much more catering to web designer, business owners and web on there’s actually a new category that I found over the last year that I’m debating on like really, I don’t know what I’m gonna do with it. But the web entrepreneur.

Josh 1:38:52
Entrepreneurs who maybe come from what I’m really excited, I’m trying to figure out what it’s kind of the new category of courses that I’m getting into, because I want to do a course on a podcast, I want to do a course on video marketing and email marketing. All of these are not really web design courses. These are like entrepreneurial courses. But what I found particularly in my web design Club, which is my private community, which anyone can join, most everybody in there is a web entrepreneur, we do websites, but we’re doing much more than just web design. A lot of the members are doing email marketing and whether it’s social media or whether it’s different marketing strategies.

Josh 1:39:29
Some are doing courses there it’s much more kind of like what you like what what you pioneered with I don’t just build websites I have a tutorial site I give back I do this I you know, so I think that that’s really reinvigorated me to to know who I serve and how to help and I’m still always going to cater to people learning web design and web sites but the reality is, I don’t know websites for clients now so I’m much more on the higher. I sound like a total douche saying that only focus on iPhones. Yeah yeah, it’s much more high level business strategy that kind of thing rather than like how do I tweak this menu item on Divi. Right so it’s kind of a little bit of a yeah like a difference

Geno 1:40:14
I’m glad you brought that up because I’ve been in the same boat you know I run the Divi community Facebook group and it’s got like 25k members or whatever, I’m not in there every day anymore and I haven’t been for years I got great moderators and shout out to Terry Hale and everybody else has helped me moderate that group. But what I find myself I’m in that place right now where are you saying ketose co for my Divi tutorials and moderate premiere for more business general stuff, right? But I find myself writing for moderate premier more than ketose co now because it’s non Divi topics and I am touching more I did some tool tutorials like I’m into Canva there are a lot of I tell my clients about Canva because they’re not into Adobe so here’s some things on how to get started with it how to make featured images and stuff like that right and so I’m getting more into just outside of Divi and you’re right that’s what’s great about I love that there’s so many people that are moving on past Divi but still part of our community.

Josh 1:41:15
Yeah, that’s what’s cool. Yeah, for you with these other builders and stuff like that, that you might attract these other people is you still have the ability to do anything you want with heroes co n with Monterey premiere, like the fact that it’s not Divi. Divi do calm you know you can branch that out kind of like I did with Josh Cohen

Geno 1:41:35
Yeah, totally I remember our first conversation was about that like how do we everybody you know, shout out to Divi life and all everybody that’s Divi specific, but I think you had me we’re in that place where we positioned ourselves to ask me groves to to position themselves to where they weren’t just focused on on Divi,

Josh 1:41:53
And there’s pros and cons to both like the good thing about what Tim and David are doing with Divi space and Divi life is they attractivity customers and it’s there’s a stats a cell right there they know the danger of doing like themes for a lot of different theme builders is like what do you really know and like is this gonna be supported well there’s a there’s a lot of power and having a specific brand around a product but totally I think for you and I we definitely and especially what I’m doing with like the courses and stuff it really is it’s it’s theme agnostic, it doesn’t matter, right? My business course doesn’t matter what theme use I share my lessons in the Divi community and stuff but you don’t need to use Divi to actually the only the only course of mine that is completely Divi specific is my Divi beginners course everything else I use Divi, I’ll show you you know, if I build something I’m going to use Divi but you can use Elementor or something else. It’s an interesting yeah,

Geno 1:42:50
And it goes back to like even when I think about my calls with the client, I’m not talking about Divi on any of those calls right right they have no idea what Divi is or they can I bring it up like hey I’m going to use the world’s most popular theme right now and add your you don’t have to pay for it so it’s kind of a can be a selling point but at the end of the day my calls revolve around social media blogging, why you should have a blog How do you rank What are keywords and people kind of mocked me because I might discovery calls are free but I’d like that teaching part I like giving him everything I know in that first hour so that they’re like Tim we’d never got this much and talking in layman’s terms not talking like like key like using all the big words just explaining them I’m basically giving them a free one hour consulting call like you’re doing with me right now and it’s it’s it’s because that’s what I love I love what I do

Josh 1:43:48
I actually I think you could really invigorate your YouTube channel for Monterey premier based off of your your free consult calls. Like you could probably I mean right now Dino I bet you could fill up a year’s worth of quick videos that are DB specific that are just like Like I said, social media strategies keywords and stuff you could write a blog and then do a video encapsulation of it. But based off your the main questions you get that way you don’t have to repeat yourself over and over and the cool thing about creating videos on the main questions you get this is just a content marketing principle in general.

Josh 1:44:22
If you create a little section of videos, it doesn’t mean that you want to grow a YouTube channel to millions of followers and views that’s not what this is about. This is just about having a catalogue of videos that you can share when you need them. That’s like an archive of what you know because with a console call, I guarantee you’re answering the same question a lot of times over so what have you or like what have you just hit this the the surface on the column back? Well, I actually just you could say I don’t want to take a half an hour of our call. So you know here’s what I recommend. I actually have a video that’s 10 minutes that will encapsulate everything on this topic. Now tell me about this. It’s actually really powerful to be able to use use that for like, for those those consulting calls to

Geno 1:45:04
And that’s great you know and I, I am going to start because of what you just said I’m going to so like what I’ve been doing like even just recently somebody one of my coaching a guy who’s learning WordPress for his client, helping him build the site, he had a question about Google Analytics and I knew it kind of might have been overload so I wanted to tell him about micro analytics, which is something I learned about in the tab admin group. And and so it’s like, you know, instead of like, doing a writing it up, I’m just gonna write an article a monitoring premier with a step by step tutorial on how to set it up and how it’s different from Google Analytics and did a little bit of keyword research and put together a quick article because I know that I’m going to be sending this to every client who has a question about analytics. And but you’re right like if I if I just encapsulated that with a short quick video to kind of summarize the article it would be huge and I just

Josh 1:45:58
That’s what that’s what I’m doing Yeah, that’s what I’m doing is like a big post that I might have I’ll just do maybe 10 to 15 minute version of it. And then that video is because people can read it or they can watch the video and yes, it takes time to do all that but you could probably apply the same principle of the series thing with like a set of tutorials you could create like you know 1015 little training videos answering the main questions that you always get. Boom there you go do those in bulk have those out there with your blog, they’re suddenly great content you can repurpose it’ll save a lot of time moving forward, build expertise, you sprinkle your interviews in there man,

Geno 1:46:37
I tell you what, I’m gonna apologize to my clients right now I know it’s two months after he do this recording but if you know why I was late on projects back in September, October is because I decided to get into video recording some of my posts so I’m gonna put some projects off in the next couple of days. But don’t be surprised if you see something on Facebook tomorrow.

Josh 1:47:01
This is this has been a good timely talk I might I maybe I’ll move this up and replace this fall on my solo episode spots so we can get this out sooner than later because a lot of people are doing this and they’re either curious about this so I think it’s really really important and it’s a great time to to jump on it. So yeah, man. Well, we This may take the cake for the longest podcast to date, so

Geno 1:47:25
I tend to do that. I’m sorry.

Josh 1:47:28
That’s what we clear. We cleared two hours for this because I knew it was gonna be good, man. I mean, I think we could have a good three and a half hour chat with no.

Geno 1:47:36
Good. So we’ll have to have a part two maybe.

Josh 1:47:39
Like I want to follow up on this for sure. I would love to hear you know how this goes. So yeah. And in honor of you being guest on the podcast. One final question for you, Geno. But where would you like people to go to to find you and connect with you?

Geno 1:47:53
Sure. Right now our website I’m mostly on the west at Monterey premier.com I am on you know we do Facebook at Monterey Premier, Instagram, Monterey premier at Twitter, Monterey Premier, but mostly you’re gonna catch where I’m at on my blog. So check out Monterey premier.com and pay more attention there because everything else I really don’t pay much attention to

Josh 1:48:19
that. We can’t. That’s the great another great lesson we can’t be everywhere. Forever, buddy. That’s something I’ve learned. I have one interesting question for you Gino. So you’ve got you you know you’ve gone through a lot in your entrepreneurial journey in business and everything what you’ve had seasons have a lot of highs and a lot of lows. You’ve been very open about some of your health struggles and burnout, stuff like that. But I do feel like you’re in a reinvigorated aspect of your your business. It seems like you’re about starting a new chapter. So what are you most excited about? After this conversation and and just maybe reflecting on this year?

Geno 1:48:55
That’s good. You know, I think the thing that’s most exciting for me is, is I feel like I’m getting a new start. But I feel this time around, I had to go through all those. It’s the emotions, the ups and downs of growing, competing, being a part of something big and then having to let that go not finding my identity in any of those things. Oh, that’s my identity and who I am as a family, man, what are my priorities? What are my goals? I have to admit that and when everything was taken off with Divi and I was, you know, meeting with the guys at Elegant Themes, and Nick Roach and we’re having those big word camp meetings in Southern California and bringing everyone together and those were exciting times. traffic on my site was huge. I was you know, talking to Nick Rhodes, I mean, those are good times.

Geno 1:49:46
But I found my identity in them, and I shouldn’t have I so my big takeaway is my identity is not in my business or my career or my popularity, my identity. is now in my relationship with my clients and that has reinvigorated me like I’m okay simplifying and letting go of some of the other stuff like I understand setting by my very first by baby by plugging my first plugin Divi staff I realized I got a sense of it and it broke my heart because there’s so many users and and so by the time you release this I probably will have announced that it has been acquired acquire hashtag acquire press calm it’s been acquired my whole goal was to hand it over to somebody who I knew would take care of it.

Josh 1:50:35
That’s cool.

Geno 1:50:36
It’s gonna be packed web house calm facade has been one of my developers for many years he’s helped me keep that plugin going and updated and maintained. He does other white label stuff for other companies. You’ve probably worked with almost every Givi developer but I said hey man, I just I don’t want to let my customers like don’t have a product but I can’t maintain it no more and so we work something out and it’s like letting go of these little things that my identity were in that was my baby baby step I was I tell my clients about it I felt that me plugin and I’ve done one of the first child themes ever aside from Melissa love that’s right that’s yeah so so I was the first one to do that outside because I followed Melissa love she was the first one to do it. I was the second one but let it go that goes but kind of hard but I realized that some identity anymore My identity is is in my relationships with the clients and just that

Josh 1:51:30
That that is a biggie man sorry I had to replace my headphones here my ears were dying on me the loss of identity thing man talk man I went through that big time when I sold my agency.

Geno 1:51:43
I want to talk about on our next call oh my

Josh 1:51:45
Gosh well hey what when you do your interview series have me and we could talk about what lessons I’ve learned with selling a business and let’s do it I’d be happy to do that man yeah man talking about loss of identity that was a that was a tough one because even though I was doing Josh Hall co to hand my clients off was it was a big big thing and I love that I kept a consulting role of the business so I’m still involved but yeah, I mean I don’t you know, when a client needs an update, they don’t email me anymore so that was a big that’s a big shift. That’s that’s tough to get through.

Geno 1:52:18
So everybody watching this, keep an eye out for my interview with Josh on that because that’s a big topic and I can’t wait to talk about that. And that’s gonna be my you’ll be That should be our first my first interview.

Josh 1:52:32
I would love to. I really would love to count me in count and again, set you know, just get a few lined up and let’s do it man. Like, it’d be so cool to see that come to life. Yeah,

Geno 1:52:42
That’d be cool. Awesome, man.

Josh 1:52:43
Well, Geno, thanks for your time, man. We’re at almost two hours. Oh, no, sorry. This is the beauty about podcasts man. Somebody might listen to this over three or four sessions so it’s that’s another big thing too. You don’t need to you know keep it to 20 minutes so yeah a lot of cool things man I really enjoyed this chat Gino was great great having you on again thank you as always for your transparency and again another thank you for really truly and honestly being a massive massive impact for me with with what I’m doing because I literally followed the Geno blueprint and like you said earlier I stayed in my lane I did what I wanted to do did my own thing so you were a huge inspiration man and much appreciated.

Geno 1:53:28
And you still are an inspiration to me right now so I appreciate it. Thanks for having me on this call and getting me back out of my shell I know I need to get back out of my shell I’ve been in the shell for a couple years. And this just know that this was the first step in that happening and I thank you for that.

Josh 1:53:45
Awesome Geno. I can’t wait for the next few months, man I’m so pumped.

Geno 1:53:48
Likewise, brother

Josh 1:53:49
Cheers and Thanks.

 

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