lot has changed in the world of SEO over the past couple years. From Google Algorithm updates/changes, to Google cracking down on spammy sites and shady “black hat” SEO techniques, to an emphasis on page speed and load times, to average time on pages and more.

I’ll be honest, it’s tough to keep up with it…

So instead of burning hours of my time trying to research where things are at, where they’re headed and how to keep up with SEO, I’ve brought in one of my trusted SEO colleagues to share what he’s seen with recent SEO trends, best practices and more!

Founder and President of Local SEO Search, INC. John Vuong is back on the podcast with a look at the current SEO Landscape and how things have changed over the past couple years so that you can learn how to get better rankings for you and your clients!

A quick note for those new to web design or those terrified of SEO (like I was), the good news is, once you understand the BASICS of SEO, you can feel more confident about onsite SEO optimization and you can actually do some “good SEO damage” with your site and client websites. It really isn’t terribly complex.

So even if you have no desire to be an SEO person, you still need to know the fundamentals as a web designer and this episode will help give you some confidence 🙂


In this episode:

00:00 – Introduction
02:41 – SEO Course
04:32 – Greeting to John
07:12 – Added wisdom and leadership
11:36 – 2021 SEO landscape
16:30 – Adding value for long term
18:07 – Some client strategies
21:49 – Importance of site speed
24:36 – What Google is looking for
27:46 – Content that gets attention
35:47 – Do more, give more
40:16 – “Short term” generation struggles
43:08 – Biggest challenges
46:50 – You pay for what you get
53:48 – Different ways we consume data
57:51 – Treat the way you want to be treated
1:01:56 – Helping in the Google fight
1:07:55 – Doing things properly
1:10:51 – SEO advice for web designers

Local SEO Search – YouTube

Connect with John:

Featured links mentioned:

This Podcast Episode Sponsored by Josh’s SEO Course

Episode #152 Full Transcription

Josh 0:14
Hey, everybody, welcome to the show. This is episode 152. In this episode, I brought in a repeat guest, somebody who I definitely consider to be a bonafide expert in the SEO field. This is John Vuong. He was back on the podcast in Episode 86. When we talked about local SEO strategies, I wanted to bring him back on to the podcast now, as we get closer to the end of 2021, to take a look at the current SEO landscape, because the reality is a lot of things have changed with SEO over the past couple of years, particularly since 2020 and on.

Josh 0:52
I’ve seen a lot of changes, not only with Google algorithm updates and stuff like that, which I’ve actually got an episode coming up fairly soon on algorithm updates in particular, which is pretty fascinating. But there’s a lot of other things that have changed with local listings, there’s things that have changed with what’s called white hat and black hat, black hat, SEO techniques, which basically means there’s kind of a good moral way and ethical way to do SEO, like organically. And there’s also a not so moral way to go surprisingly, right on the internet, with SEO techniques.

Josh 1:25
And I wanted to bring John back on because like I mentioned, He’s really He’s such a great mind when it comes to SEO. He didn’t know he is the founder and president of local SEO search Incorporated, you can check that website out at local SEO search.ca. He’s outside of Toronto, which is the CA it’s not ca California, CA Canada. For those who are new to web design.

Josh 1:46
Anywho. He is awesome. John is just a wealth of knowledge with SEO, he’s seen a lot because he helps a lot of businesses, both local and global and national, because there really is a different technique with local brick and mortar shops with their SEO practices versus a website like mine that is not location based. And it’s 100%, organic and national global. So what we do in this episode is really have an in depth look fun casual chat about where SEO is where it is right now. So you can both help your website to get better rankings. And you can more importantly help your clients because you really you’ve got to know the basics of SEO.

Josh 2:24
Even if you don’t have any plans of offering advanced SEO services or being an SEO expert, you as a web designer have got to know the basics. So this episode is going to be really enlightening for you. John is just a really great guy and has a lot of passion for this industry. So I’m really excited to hear what takeaways you get from this episode.

Josh 2:41
And I would love to help you with SEO, if you are new to web design, or maybe you’ve been at the game for a while. And maybe you’re like myself, where I just I didn’t learn SEO till later on in my journey. It was like the last thing that I really understood the fundamentals of I would love to help you with that I actually have an SEO course that is a it’s a beginners course. But it goes pretty advanced and pretty technical as well. What I found is that once you know the foundational aspects of SEO, you can get pretty intricate and pretty complex after that. So my SEO course is really going to cover the whole spectrum from the fundamentals, the foundational law, knowledge all the way to helping you with on site SEO, and then taking your site and your client sites to next level with SEO. And for those of you who do want to offer SEO as a recurring income service. We talked about that as well in the course.

Josh 3:30
So you can check that out right now you can actually just go to Josh hall.co/s e o, and then there’ll be some resources there for you. I would love to welcome you into my SEO course. And I would love to help you learn the fundamentals. That way you can start getting better SEO results for you and your clients. And without further ado, here is my man John, we’re going to have a lot of fun talking about the current SEO landscape. And I’m excited to help you out with this because SEO while it seems Skatey Sherry and terror shady and terrifying. It’s not that bad guys, it’s not that bad if you know the basics. So without further ado, let’s kick in.

Josh 4:10
John, welcome back on to the podcast, man. So great to have you on again.

John 4:14
Well, thanks a lot, Josh. I’m excited once again to be on your podcast because the first time we had so much fun, and hopefully the audience members learn quite some tips and tricks and you know, some things that they were able to implement on their own journey and website.

Josh 4:31
Yeah, our first combo was awesome. I got a ton of great feedback on that. That was episode 86. Where you talked to we talked about local SEO strategies for small websites, business websites, so if anyone has not heard that first episode, I highly recommend going back to that I wanted to have you back on because I think it’s a perfect follow up to that because let’s see, when did we Okay, so we launched that episode in the beginning of this year in 2021.

Josh 4:59
While something Things have changed. I mean, some things have stayed the same. But I think a lot has changed with SEO. And you are somebody who was in it daily and you have a lot of kind of insider knowledge. And I’m super excited to chat about the SEO landscape particularly with with certain countries and areas still in lockdowns. And I think SEO has changed a lot. I think business obviously, we know business has changed. And consequently, SEO has changed. So needless to say, I’m so excited to have you on again for updated chat about where SEO is and where it’s headed. Before we dive in, man, do you want to let everybody know who maybe doesn’t know you? First off where you’re based out of? And if you could summarize what you do with your SEO agency, what do you what do you tell people?

John 5:43
Yeah, definitely. So my name is John Vaughn. I’m the Founder CEO of a company called Local S E O search. We’re based in Toronto, Canada. And what we are is a full service boutique SEO agency servicing the SMB marketplace, where we touch every single pillar involved in the entire process to ensure that clients get optimal results and the best ROI in terms of their SEO campaign.

Josh 6:13
Beautiful, that was a nice little 10 second elevator pitch for a networking group there, if you can tell, you can tell him somebody that a seasoned professional when it just comes out so natural, there’s no thought. So that’s perfect, man. And for those of you watching on YouTube, because these videos are on YouTube, the interviews, you’ve got quite the new setup with some books and stuff before we went live. You’re saying you’re you’re like reading one book a week now? Right?

John 6:37
Yeah. So it’s more on things I’ve interest in? Yes, business was one of the biggest pillars for last couple years. But as you evolve in life, your your interests change at different stages of your life. So for me, it’s all different, right? Health travel Bucket List of relationship, and just trying to always learn right and grow?

Josh 7:03
How has I’m going to completely derail us right from the get go, how has your reading of different topics impacted the business and your leadership style.

John 7:12
So I have different perspectives. I’ve been able to grow in, pass on Lyle, a lot of knowledge to my team, and where I am much more hands off of the actual doing of the work now, but more about leadership, where I’m working on building and scaling the business for growth. So systems processes, engagement with the team collaboration, making sure we have the best software stack, making sure we’re constantly growing and evolving like all the other major agencies globally. And what are they doing? So that’s more what I’ve been working on the last six to nine months.

Josh 7:55
That’s awesome, man. Yeah, I think it’s, it’s changed even since we talked earlier this year, because I think at this point, you were kind of heading towards this direction. But it’s really cool to touch base under a year later to see that you’ve actually followed through with a lot of this stuff, which is you’re a seasoned entrepreneur and you you’re a go getter John, I love it, man. It’s It’s inspiring to me, because I think your your mindset and your, your implementation on this stuff is what a lot of people need to see. Because it’s one thing to want to work on your business and be the CEO. And it’s another thing to actually do it. So that’s pretty cool. And I’m curious, like, in regards to the SEO type of stuff, are you I know you’re not in the weeds of the business doing a lot of this stuff. Now? How are you keeping up with this stuff? Are people is your team relaying some of the top tools and practices? Are you tinkering around with anything on a high level? Just to to see what are you looking at results with some of your best clients? How are you staying in the know on a lot of this?

John 8:54
Well, I am still at the pulse as CEO of the business where I always want to be in, right because when you’re totally off out of the game, then you lose that same skill, right? That you’ve been developing for many, many years. Just like in sales, right? When you don’t do it for many months. You’re kind of off game right? So I still want to be at the pole. So I still ingest tons of content. Part of a lot of active communities still do a lot of you know events and speaking and trying to be a part of our discussions with not just internal teams, but managers and understanding like results. How can we improve what’s what is our solution? What are some of the best practices, what have we done and I’m really trying to get all my leaders, all my managers to uplevel their game so that they become better at the way I thought things through right like so that they can learn and make mistakes as well. So that Everyone improves and grows.

Josh 10:02
That’s awesome. Man. I know personally, I was one of the biggest apprehension apprehensions I had with selling my agency was to be out of touch with web design. I was like, I don’t want to be that coach, that was like, Well, you know, 15 years ago, this is how I did it, because that ain’t gonna fly, especially in web design. So I worked it out very carefully to where I still oversee my agency, and I’m kind of a consultant. So they I’m getting, you know, constant reports of the newest kind of stuff. I can design stuff if I want to. And then of course, I have my web design club and all my students. And I’m getting the number one challenges, and I’m able to stay really fresh like that. And of course, I run my own website, and I’m working on my own website every day. So it’s interesting to know that, you know, if anyone gets into some sort of consulting role or teaching role, there’s a lot of different creative ways to stay on top of stuff, which is pretty cool.

Josh 10:53
So speaking of that perfect segue into staying on top of SEO, let’s just, we didn’t have any bullet points. This is not like a, you know, one, step two, step three step, we’re just gonna have a casual chat about SEO. As we know, John, the pandemic changed everything for businesses locally, everybody realized they needed to get online, it was a whole different influx of changes with SEO through 2020 2021. What is the landscape look like? With SEO? Do you feel like businesses have really taken to that and realize after last year, like, they’ve realized, I’ve got to get my business online? What is what is that? What I guess the question is, what is 2021 looked like, for SEO so far.

John 11:35
So it all depends on the business type, and segment and how it impacted their life livelihood during this pandemic. So the state that I see is, all my clients are fairly active in the role of, they’re still operational, they’re our service base or higher ticket item. And they run a well oiled business that they’ve been implementing for the last 510 20 years. So they have to look at themselves to see if they plan on continuing or exiting. So when you look at like mapping out their life plan, they could be near the end of their life plan where they want to just sell and live the best rest of their lives by just cashing out, right.

John 12:23
However, if you look at a lot of newer businesses, a lot of new business owners don’t have the same patience. As people that have been in it for 510 20 years, they want results today, they are quick to make decisive decisions that will harm them. But because they’re not seasoned business owners, they don’t know what it’s like to put in the time to put in the hard work, the effort to grow, you know, the hours that’s required to really understand their business, their clients are pricing, the value, the you know, everything that’s involved customer service, training their staff, suppliers, everything.

John 13:08
So what I found is new businesses who have joined us, they’re very fickle, and very nimble, right, like, I always have to be very close to them first couple months, the ones that are, you know, usually our sweet spot type of clients, they are not sure to commit yet, because of the uncertainty in this global landscape. Where, you know, yes, everyone’s getting vaccinated, yes, people are more inclined to get back to normal wanting to spend in support local, the challenges there. They’ve been frustrated for the last year and a half, right? Because the government restricted them on certain things that can do, you know, barriers, they had to put install and invest a lot of money on, just making sure that they stay open. Right.

John 13:09
So all these things have kind of, it’s a weird world, right. Like in terms of the SEO component. Yeah, we still sniff a lot of the trends, different keywords, different, you know, attributes and different finals and different types of opportunities exist, the challenges for the business owners, they’re not as inclined to take on that new risks of wanting to do something long term because they don’t know. You know, what’s gonna happen? A lot uncertainty.

Josh 14:36
That’s a good point. I know. It’s a very open ended question. I think that was a good look at like some of the challenges that not only you go through as an SEO agency, I mean, we face it as web designers because even a website design isn’t going to be instant results sometimes although it is kind of nice to have like a bad dated website design and then boom, here’s your new fresh design, and maybe you start getting more calm. Contact leads the next couple of weeks SEO, a whole different ballgame. Often it takes several months or even longer, depending on the content strategy and the keywords and the competition.

Josh 15:10
So I definitely feel for you on the, you know, that end of things. But for the business owner, you raise a really good point, John, it’s like, they may not know what to invest in, or be sure that they’re they want to invest in certain strategies, if they don’t know if things are gonna change. And I’m in Ohio. So we have, we don’t have near as many regulations and restrictions right now, currently, as you do still in Canada and Toronto. However, I’m still I think everyone’s kind of on pins and needles as to see like, what’s gonna happen here over the next end of 2021, and 22? Because we don’t know like, I can’t wait, I’m wearing my blue jackets. Sure. I can’t wait to go to hockey games this year. What’s that going to look like? Is it going to be 2000 people in the arena again? Or they’re going to shut down completely? Is it going to be full capacity? We don’t know.

Josh 15:58
So it’s a good, it’s a good reminder that businesses are feeling this too. And that needs to maybe be addressed in some ways. We talked to our clients like maybe we have to let them know, I’m thinking ahead for you. Because we’re going to be prepared from an SEO perspective, from a design perspective that things might change. And, you know, we can be prepared for that. I guess that’s the next question I have for you. How, as an SEO agency, do you try to combat that? Or help clients prepare for that? Do you have a couple different strategies for like, content, ads, etc, that can help them depending on the situation?

John 16:30
Yeah, so most of my clients have been very accommodating. And they understand that we’re doing what we can to support them. So we’re fully engaged with clients, we talk to them, we email them, and we give ideas, we’re very proactive, versus the ones that are very reactive, because by doing that, it shows that we actually care. Also, we always collaborate. We have newsletters, we have different video segments, we have things to make them eager and optimistic. At the end of the day, yes, we’re adding more value to every single client, because I know where we need to improve and where we need to invest. So we’re adding new strategies constantly, to help them achieve better and more at the same price point. So even though they don’t see what we’re doing, we’re producing better results. And that’s what clients want to know and care about, right? Like, if I’m paying X amount, are you delivering X amount more in return, and if you are, then they’re gonna stay with you. Like, there’s no reason for them to leave. So if we constantly improve, we know where gaps are where we can improve, then clients will stay for good times and bad times. And that’s what we’re really after.

Josh 17:54
And what are some of those strategies? John, is it Is it like keyword research? Is it better content? Is it on site, things that you guys are helping to improve? What are some of the strategies that you’ve seen that have really helped clients right now?

John 18:07
Yeah, so again, I know in our last episode, we’re very active on technical SEO, as well as looking at competitors and gaps in opportunities. We’re a full service agency. So we’re also doing link building, we’re also doing reputation management. We’re also trying to clean up bad spammy sites, right, and toxic links and keyword stuffing and all these other things that make a huge impact on the search results page. And the more we are providing better user experience, user intent focus for Google, they know we’re on the right side where we’re helping them provide better results for our customers, but most importantly, the user experience. So they come back to Google searching and seeking information.

John 18:57
So by doing that, we’re on their good books. And then our clients are getting better results. And because all the spammy stuff like very rich anchor text, heavy backlink, you know, maybe it’s stuffed links, right? It’s not even branded anchor text. It’s really not the way that’s more authentic, right? Like not earn, you’re paying for that stuff. So understanding all that, and doing it the right way. So we’re always looking at the gaps, right? Like what works, because Google’s algorithms constantly changing. And in order to do that, you have to stay on the pulse right of what’s working today probably didn’t work three months ago. So what do we need to strategically do for the next couple months? Or next couple of weeks? Right?

John 19:46
Like we’re constantly looking at why did this customer drop? You know, do we do it specific action because there’s 200 Plus signals that we do a 301 redirect? Do we change the URL title do we implement but not ping it so that it’s not indexed first and crawled. There’s so many factors behind it. And then we drop some links when it was launched, do we amplify on social? Like, what was the engagement like, all these factors? And that’s why it’s hard to just do one. There’s so many different components?

Josh 20:18
Well, I know it’s kind of a hard question to answer, because it varies. It’s different on every site and client and a new site is completely different than a site that is a redesign with domain authority. So but there’s a lot of good little tips, you hit in there with the different strategies that might need to be implemented for SEO. And there’s a lot of things that we do as web designers on site. And there’s a lot of things that this is why you kind of need to partner with an SEO agency to handle all that stuff, because I sure as heck can’t keep up with all that.

Josh 20:47
But you did mention something about Google. And and the user experience. And I know the hottest term right now in web design is site speed, and what Google is looking for in regards to site speed, I will say, John, I am I kind of take the the site speed results like GT metrics and some of these sites, I encourage my students to not kill themselves ever trying to get an A plus site, because sometimes you have to, you know, lose some really good conversion based stuff or some some cool things you did on a site that’s going to help somebody convert in order to just get a better letter on a site speed.

Josh 21:25
So while I’m, you know, I definitely encourage people to optimize their sites and speed things up. I also don’t want to lose the, you know, the conversion tactics with design and things that will help a business grow. So with all that said, What have you seen that Google is favoring and looking for in regards to, you know, site speed, I mean, is that as important as a lot of web designers are making it now?

John 21:49
Well, let’s say speed is definitely very important aspect, just like mobile friendly websites, like making sure that the user who is clicking on the website stays on your website. And first off, you need that click in the first place. So you need to be optimized on SERPs to get an organic traffic click to then want them to stay longer than 30 seconds, a minute, two minutes, however long, right?

John 22:12
So if you look at data, and this is where when you drill deeper into Google Analytics, and you start looking at the behavior flow of how people go to different pages, that homepage above the fold is purely on hitting them with that exact same problem that they want to then you’re solving their issue, right with a solution that they can’t solve themselves. And that’s why they’re going to check out a couple websites. And if they it resonates with them, what compelled them? Was it that first graphic image, was there certain case study, was there certain, you know, words that really compelled to them? Was there a video.

John 22:53
So understanding that maybe it’s not trying to get that one second load. But if you then incorporate a video that actually gets people to stay for two minutes, that’s probably more important, because that two minute will lead to a lead or a client versus that one second, will not even get you any clients for months, or hey, like, look at what really matters. If it is all about results, which is profit sales revenue, then look at that metric. Don’t look at just be because Google is asking you to look for speed, right? Look at what truly matters for your business.

Josh 23:32
That is such a great response. It’s what I was hoping for, honestly, John, because my, my fear was you were gonna say, Josh, you’re you’re preaching false things. You know, Site Speed is the most important thing. So I’m glad to hear that you agree it’s a mix you got you know, you will, of course, you don’t want a site that’s gonna load for 30 seconds, you want it to load quick. But at the same time, I think I do feel like there’s a wave of folks who are combating the one second load time if it’s going to, like you mentioned, like, if it if somebody wants a site that’s going to load in a second, but there’s no good conversion metrics, there’s no video, there’s no good, great call to actions. And a person’s not going to do anything. What’s the point? I’d rather have somebody wait a couple seconds, but then be really engaged. So I love that point. That’s, that’s great. So good. Good to hear. What were like practically, it was this year that Google started favoring sites that were more optimized, right, like I, I had heard quite a few different things that I don’t know what it was called, or what the update was. But what happened in 2021 that made this such a big deal.

John 24:36
So Google is actually looking not just on titles anymore, but h1 tags, h2 tags, and they’re gonna decide which ones resonate more for the users right and display it. So I know a lot of people are keyword stuffing, title tags description. And that’s probably not what Google wants because they want authentic content. That right resonates with the users. They don’t want people to then click on the listing on the SERP on the first page, because the title and your URL and the description matches the exact keywords that people want to read. But what happens is when they click the content has nothing to do with what they’re trying to optimize for.

John 25:21
And what is more important for Google is they are tracking bounce rate. They’re taught, tracking how long people are staying. And if they know that, well, it probably makes sense to use a certain section in that page, which is the h1 tag, which resonates more for the keywords that they want to optimize for. That’s what they’re gonna use. So understanding all that, you know, make it authentic, right? Like don’t focus on stuffing keywords knowing that it’s a High search volume keyword that’s broad, and maybe a lot of people are searching, look at like the user’s intent, like if you were searching for a keyword, like a specific problem that you have, what websites would you actually read?

Josh 26:04
Yeah, right.

John 26:05
Like, think about it?

Josh 26:07
Well, it’s funny, you mentioned that because when I started this endeavor, with my personal brand, and Josh Hall.co, I didn’t have really any sort of SEO strategy. All I did was I made tutorial videos, and I made posts, and I created titles that I would search for. And because I was a web designer, I knew the challenges and I kind of knew what I would look for and what I wanted help with, you know, maybe a few years ago. So that’s what I made articles on.

Josh 26:32
I didn’t do any fancy SEO work. A lot of those posts, I use SEO Yoast as my SEO plugin. A lot of those I didn’t even put a keyword in, I just did the title description and you know, made organic contact or content. And then suddenly, that’s what’s pulling up on Google left and right. And as I built domain authority, Google started favoring a lot of my articles over some of these keywords, stuff ones, like you mentioned. And it’s funny, because I get a lot of questions about, you know, advanced SEO tactics and stuff.

Josh 27:00
I tell a lot of my students, honestly, I just wrote good content. And I’d say I love that you said that, John, because it is a very dated approach. And I think it’s worthwhile letting everyone know who’s maybe new to the web world, that maybe a decade ago, or 20 years ago, you could just stuff the heck out of keywords on pages, and Google will rank them, but it is different. Now, Google, like you said, I’ve heard a lot of SEO experts say Google wants good content. And would you say maybe that’s even more important now because more businesses are online, and there’s more competition. And Google’s just flooded with? You know, and there’s a lot of spammy sites now. Like, do you think that’s one reason Google was looking for good authentic content now more than ever?

John 27:46
Yeah, like, if you think about content, it comes in different forms, right? Video, audio, images and written, but we’re going to talk about written where most people write blogs, 500 words to maybe 5000 words. And you being the user of someone that you want to find information for, you’re going to type in a Google search with a question query. And you’re going to read a couple of the blogs or a couple of search results that appear at the first page. Are you going to read ones that are spun AI driven, that is thin in content has no depth? No personalization, no research? No references and resources? And it’s just to satisfy the Google algorithm? Or are you going to read one that provides images, graphs, infographics, videos, podcasts, rich content that actually has case studies? And, you know, personalization? Based on your perspective, what we you read? Right? Yes, you put in a little bit more time? Yes, it’s gonna take a lot more research and evolve with different team members. But what’s gonna resonate with the user is that type of content.

Josh 29:03
Great rule of thumb and to this topic and what you hit on a little bit ago, bounce rate and time on page, I have found that all of the platforms, whether it’s Google, whether it’s YouTube, whether it’s Instagram, Facebook, everybody wants and seems like everyone is favoring time, like they, they want to see how long they can keep somebody there. And that’s what they’re gonna favor. It’s interesting, because when I got into YouTube at the end of 2017, it was a little bit different than to where longer videos warrant favored as much they wanted more like quick bite sized videos that would lead to another video. Well, it’s completely different now. And now these longer form videos where there’s more time on watch time and stuff. Those tend to get better organic rankings.

Josh 29:51
So I’m actually kind of working on my own content strategy, which is SEO related with my videos where I’m going to sprinkle in some shorter videos, but I’m also going to really work at like some longer form videos that should kind of appease the Google. So I think it’s really interesting and really important for SEO like, Yeah, I think stuffing keywords and trying to make the cert page the, you know, the, to get a click, it really isn’t going to matter if there’s only 200 words, and it’s not something it’s beneficial. It’s much better to have a 1500 word like meaty good, not not fluffy, but good, meaty, rich article, right? I mean, is that is that fair to say that it’s better to have a really good article that maybe has a little bit of keyword optimization and intentional writing, rather than something that’s 100 words and is just stuffed with with junk.

John 30:01
All we invest the time in quality versus quantity. And all the people that are spending time on producing good content, right, they understand that maybe it takes months to produce one really well written article, right? And that’s okay, because that junk that you’re writing, Google’s gonna disregard it anyways. So you can spend years writing that junk, and none of it will rank. But you spend a couple more effort time in producing good quality content, it’s actually gonna get picked up right. And time spent is so important, understanding the medium that you’re trying to attract customers from.

So always have internal links throughout scattered throughout your website to keep them engaged and wanting more on your website. – John

John 30:43
YouTube video, time spent watching videos to then watch other videos that you have related, right? It’s so critical to eventually have them subscribe to your channel. You it’s so similar to your website. Once they read that blog or service page or homepage, what are some of the internal pages that you want to keep them relevant and related to So always have internal links throughout scattered throughout your website to keep them engaged and wanting more on your website. So when you talk about bite size videos, it’s great for Tik Tok and Instagram and maybe Facebook because the type of profile of people consuming content there are short attention span, right? So it makes sense, it depends on the platform and media that you want to push the content out to. Because there’s a different persona, different audience type different person that you want to attract using that kind of form of media choice to consume that content.

Josh 32:28
Yeah, that’s a good point. We’ve talked about that a lot in the podcast with very different type of topics. In regards to knowing your audience and knowing where they are like a YouTube video is going to be often very different than an Instagram, under a minute video, like, you can promote the video on Instagram or maybe give one tip. But if you’re going to do a 20 minute video that’s a little more in depth. That’s where YouTube comes in. It is kind of interesting, though Facebook is even I know changed over the past year where they’re favoring now three minute videos that are maybe kind of in between, it seems like to where they don’t want the 32nd videos, often they want something that is going to keep people on a little more, and then might lead them to something else.

Josh 33:08
So that’s all really important when it comes to content strategy. You’re actually really challenging me, John, because as I am looking at my content strategy, I committed to for the rest of 2021 doing one like tutorial style YouTube video, along with these podcast interviews. And I’m currently doing six podcast episodes a month for interviews and two solo episodes. But I am definitely challenged heading into 22 with thinking about quality versus quantity, and maybe really evaluating, okay, how many posts do I want to do for podcasts versus videos. And maybe I’ll do less, but just more rich in Meteor. And I’m really curious, I’m going to kind of make it a case study. And I might try it like for three months, maybe all I’ll hang back on a certain amount of videos or content and do one bigger type video and kind of see how that works.

John 34:04
My suggestion for you is maybe reach out to your community and ask directly from your audience who are consuming the content, what they want. And that will give you a better insight on the topics on who they would like as a guest, and where the gaps are that they would like to see. So that you’re catering to the people that are loyal customers of yours. And that’s who you want to resonate with anyways more of them, right because they’re telling you exactly what they want. So if you can do that, it would be great to just get feedback from your existing base.

Josh 34:40
That’s a great point. And I didn’t really think about doing that with like, who you would like to hear from or what topics necessarily. I did ask my website design community my premium membership. My club, I asked them how many episodes do you like listening to because I was doing just one a week for a while and then I tried a second Where I did two a week. And the consensus was one a week wasn’t quite enough. And two a week was too much to keep up with. So I ended up kind of finding a happy meeting medium of six. But I’m definitely going to try that out with like, what type of content are people looking for? And I, that’s a great challenge. I think that’s really good for people to think about for their own businesses as well. And for clients. Like, if you ask that question to clients, they will think the world of you and what a sales tip just to ask your client, like, let’s do a poll with your, with your customers, and see what they’re looking for from you when it comes to content. And what are they asking about? I guarantee most business owners aren’t thinking about that. So what what a great tip, John, I love that man, I think everyone could use that, particularly as like a sales type tip.

John 35:47
Yeah just being open, right? Like, understand that, if you were on the other side paying for a membership? What value are you bringing? And can you constantly up that value? Do more, give more? Add more value, right? And that’s what I’m all about, right? Like always listening, be on the polls, look at what’s going on and other agencies and provide more for the people that I’m trying to support, right, like those SMBs in all aspects, because they’re the hardest working individuals in the world. Right. So they’ve been hit hard. So I just want to keep giving more value.

Josh 36:26
Yeah, that’s great. A lot of good stuff. So far, particularly, I think, I think the most important thing with the changes of Google and a lot of these other platforms is the the retention, the time on page, bounce rates, those are really, those are metrics that are so important to look at. I am curious, what you’ve seen as far as competition with SEO, particularly, because so many businesses were forced to go online. Did that change things with ads and keywords? Like I would imagine, a lot more people are trying to boost up their SEO game. And that’s going to create more competition. Is that true? Have you seen that in a lot of different industries? Yeah,

John 37:07
I I’ve noticed, you know, I’ve been at this for eight years. And the last, I would say, two years, it’s been interesting, I would say because the type of profile of clients are different, reaching out for SEO, because their expectations are far greater than real realistically, what typical SEO agencies would do, right, like answer, so they want results yesterday, but that’s not realistic, because they saw a social post guaranteeing results in X amount of days, or your money back or something, right?

John 37:47
Well, and I always thought back to them, and I’m like, Okay, if you’re a business owner, you know how hard it is to be an operation for X amount of years to stay in business and be profitable? Do you want to bring on new customers if they’re not willing to pay you? Right for your service? Because now you have all these, you know, expenses as well as you have all this? Sure, you know, experience over these years, right, like you can pass that along to clients.

John 38:15
So understanding that and just listening to the pulse of the different communities different like I do a lot of speaking different associations learning on where the gaps are what’s going on in specific industries, right, like the dental, the optometrist, the naturopath, the chiropractors, and learning what is their major challenges were who are coming in as a new practice owner, who are, you know, and then product play, like, there’s a ton of people that are Spotify. I mean, Shopify business owners, now they have a product, they want to scale and grow, right. But they have no business background in marketing in sales background, but they want additional revenue, but they don’t want to pay for additional revenue. And so then it’s more like, Okay, I always push back and say learn how to run a business.

Josh 39:07
Right. So the interesting point, John, like, so the past couple years, you’ve seen an uptick in that. What do you think’s behind that? Do you think there’s just more people getting into entrepreneurialship? Do you think there’s more people starting side hustles and stuff like that? Obviously, the delayed gratification is not something the generation behind us seems to have. And I’m only 34 But I’m already like kids these days because I like I don’t know any kids that have had the same job for more than about six months.

Josh 39:39
That was not the case when I was in high school, just you know, not even 20 years ago and I think it’s completely different from our parents generation where you just had a job and obviously entrepreneurialship looked way different technology didn’t allow for what we can do now. What all that to say the delayed delayed gratification thing is is what I think the up and coming big business owners are lacking. But yeah, what do you think’s behind that? Is it younger people getting into business? Is it again, just more entrepreneurs? Is it ads? Is that our ads? What’s, you know, creating these people who have the two month expectations? What do you think is behind all that?

John 40:16
I think there’s a lot of factors, right, like, generationally, yes, they are short term. They’re trying to get what they can as soon as possible, because they’re uncertain themselves. There’s so much uncertainty in the global landscape, right? From health, wellness, to relationships to, you know, family, and obligations, like commitment to not just business, but you know, just expenses. Like if you’ve ever rented versus own a home, like people would rather rent short term, right. So in the mindset, it’s always, I want to see if this business is gonna happen. But with SEO, it’s more like you got to know your business before you invest. And a lot of people don’t even know if they’re true business owners yet.

John 41:02
So they spend, spend some money in ads, thinking Facebook is the holy grail, when they only spend $500 1,000 a month, and they get nothing, they get some clicks, I’m sharing some comments, great. But they’re like, it didn’t pay. So I don’t believe in paid ads anymore. So they give up. And they’re like, it’s not for me. But that’s the whole world of freelancing. And, you know, being a contractor, I think a lot of people are very, you know, fast to react, but they don’t really think through strategically, their longer term goals, because I just put together a 10 year plan.

John 41:40
And I don’t know if a lot of business owners at you know, 30, or 25, would put together a three year plan, let alone a 10 years. And I’ve been in business for eight years. And, you know, if you look at like, experience and expertise, you got to put in 10 years at whatever given skill that you are in to be an expert. So if you’re not even putting that commitment in, how many hours are you doing it on daily basis to know it inside out to be that expert to then charge someone for your product and service? Like, you know, yes, one person out of a billion might have grown and scaled their business, but what’s the odds that you will as a new entrepreneur? So a lot of mixed messages out there.

Josh 42:28
Sure. Sure. So a lot of the the leads and new clients that you guys have seen over the past couple years? Would you say there are a lot of like startups? Are they freelancers? Are they like, you know, one man shop kind of businesses or? Because I would think with the pandemic, you might see the opposite. You might see a lot of businesses that were Mom and Pop kind of shops that barely maybe didn’t even have a website. But suddenly they’ve got to get online. Did you see a lot of those or was it a mix? Or what? Or in that case? If it’s the mom and pop shop? Yeah. Maybe they don’t know anything about this online world? Yeah. And maybe they’re, they have to learn? Is that kind of the mix of what you’ve seen?

John 43:08
Yeah. So there’s a lot of different avatars that you just mentioned. So in the b2b space, trade shows non existent, right, so a lot of people had some funds allocated for different ways to promote and get new customers. So there’s opportunities there that reach out, as well as small, medium sized business owners, mom and pop, but the challenge for them is a year and a half of no revenue. How can they then invest money on a new platform with no predictability? Right.

John 43:42
And so that’s the biggest challenge. But I’m also doing a lot of mass media, to not just hit digital people who are seeking out services because yes, we’re an SEO world. And yes, we’re optimized for a website. It’s a different platform digitally. But we’re also doing radio, we’re planning on doing more speaking, when things open, we’re working on a book like hitting people at different content consuming spaces, right? Because the people that are reading a blog or watching a YouTube video might not be enjoying that type of format. They rather listen or watch TV or, you know, other forms that are mass media.

John 44:21
So it’s just understanding where you’re at in your business lifecycle and trying to hit people at the right time with the right message with either a hook or offer that resonates enough for them to take action. Right. And that’s where a lot of trial testing, but having fun along the way, because this is the evolution of entrepreneurship and business ownership. You got to keep moving, trying, pivoting, growing, you know, adjusting, see what works, what doesn’t. And this is same with SEO.

Josh 44:52
Well, I’m sure that’s why you’ve had such a growing business over the past eight years and had so many clients because I imagine you tell them that That’s kind of thing like they’ve got to try some different stuff and experiment. And you know, those are those are really important points from an SEO perspective, rather than 99 bucks a month, you’ll get on the first page of Google because that I think most people are wising up to that now, but for clients who are intrigued by those ads, maybe that’s where that’s what’s really throwing them off.

Josh 45:21
I know, for web designers, what really made us have to tell clients and make them understand our value was the whole like, build your own website in an hour or Wix where you know what Squarespace website, whatever it is, or you know, your own website, and for $1 a month, a lot of those marketing channels really shifted business owners mindsets to not understand the value of websites. Luckily, I think we’re already at the tail end of that to where most business owners have already tried that. And they either get no results, or they realize that web design is way more complex than they should be dealing with themselves. Or they realize that if you get a spirit, a Squarespace website or a Wix website, you don’t own anything, and you’re completely locked into their terms and stuff.

Josh 46:09
So I actually think what’s really interesting is, at the end of this year, and heading into 2022, I think web designers and SEO folks, digital marketers, I think we have a really, really unique time period in front of us where I feel like we can really capitalize on all this stuff that we’re talking about about being helpful, building good content, and this is all going to relate to web design, SEO, everything. So I completely derailed my own thought, but it is really interesting that there’s a different approach here than just the throw money at this stuff with some keywords or make an ad and then it’s gonna it’s gonna work his customers are different now to like, we’re all we all know, when somebody is trying to sell us something in a sleazy way.

John 46:50
Yes. And I think you you hit something there about like you pay for what you get, right? A lot of people kind of understand that in life. Now. You know, in health, especially during this pandemic, it’s like, you’ve been eating a lot of fast food or stuff that is probably not nutritional. Maybe that reduces your immunity, because it’s going to have a lot of impact in the future. But now it really impacted you because maybe you got the virus or no, you know, someone that did, and that kind of really changed your mindset of, okay, I got to make some changes, drastic changes in my lifestyle.

John 47:29
So as a business owner, it’s the same thing. You build a website, Wix, Squarespace, Shopify, whatever it is 30 bucks a month, a buck a month, whatever. And you expect it to, you know, do everything or you hire someone 99 bucks a month. And it’s like, okay, I keep spending, nothing’s happening, what’s going on? You know? And then you kind of like, okay, is this for me or not, let’s call real experts, right? They call some local people that actually know what’s going on. And that’s why I found a lot too a lot of people have tried a lot of people from different countries. And they got really poor results. So I just go in clean all the toxic links and spam and all that stuff, and do things properly. But that’s what you get, right? Like, just like when you have a plumber or roofer or window guy, like, contractor you pay for what you get. So that’s the difference.

Josh 48:23
Well, those are some of the best leads I’ve found are the people who tried to do it themselves, because they’re like, alright, just whatever, I’ll pay, whatever, you guys just do it. Those are some of the best. And if they didn’t do the DIY approach, if they did hire somebody for super cheap, I’ll never forget one of my best clients, one of my a clients, she was so sweet. I gave her a quote. And it wasn’t a huge project. It was like a $2,000 website or something. And it was just like an author, portfolio style site. And she passed on it because she didn’t really have much of a budget. And she’s like, I was gonna try this other agency, they could do it for a lot cheaper. I really, you know, enjoyed work, you know, talking with you, but I’m just gonna go this route. And I was very careful to say no problem. The door’s always open, if you want to come back.

Josh 49:06
Not two months later, I should have kept this voicemail because she left me a voicemail. And she was like, Josh, I just want to apologize. He’s like, I went the cheap route. And I got what I paid for. And she was like, if you’re open to it, I would love to move forward with you. And I’ll pay you in full right now. And she had been a great client. So I didn’t even have to it I didn’t even have to sell it ended up being one of the best sales tools ever for her to go the cheap route and have a terrible experience. So I think we’re probably all gonna see a lot of that. And I think about the business owners who maybe they had a GoDaddy Website that they built themselves five years ago, COVID hits, they’re like, Oh, crap, now I gotta get online.

Josh 49:43
So they try to do it themselves, or they try to hire somebody quickly. They get it, they try to get an instant result. And and now they’re kind of like spiraling out of control. And then I don’t know it’s interesting, because while that can be a nightmare for us as service providers, that can turn into a good opportunity, right because If they finally do come to an expert, or somebody who at least knows a little bit about what they’re doing, suddenly we can tell them. Okay, calm down. Let’s start here. Let’s work on this. And then we’ll help guide you. And I feel like we as web designers, SEO folks, digital marketers, I feel like we can be the voice of reason for a lot of these business owners spiraling out of control. Would you say that’s true?

You got to go out there, work under someone, learn the ropes, get some experience. – John

John 50:23
Yes, as long as you’re in it for the right reasons, because there’s a lot of businesses like, there’s so many people that claim to be experts, as web design designers or SEO is without any proven track record, or without any, you know, case studies and years in, right. But they know that they need to get in somehow, right. So it’s interesting, but I know you have to start somewhere. And I always tell people, like you got to go out there, work under someone, learn the ropes, get some experience, doing yourself having some sort of proof, right, that you know what you’re doing, because just like in any business, first couple years of rough, it’s challenging, but the ones that, you know, continue doing it for 510 20 years, you know, they’ve been tested.

John 51:13
Ebbs and flows, a lot of challenges from operations, marketing, sales, you know, staffing, suppliers, everything, website design every every challenge, but they overcame in persevered, right. So then it’s more like you pay every one like people you treat them? Well, you make sure that you maintain that relationship, because you never know who they know, and who they’re going to recommend. And as long as you have very good values, right in life, where you’re more of a giver, and you want to help and, you know, provide the most out of the service that you’re offering, but also help in any other aspects that may be beneficial for them, because they they’re just challenged in certain areas, and you can provide that different feedback or direction, or advice or help them, you know, contact this other person. That helps as well.

Josh 52:09
Yeah, that was that. For me. There’s a lot of good points there as far as starting a business and helping folks out in these type of situations. Because when I started, I didn’t know much about web design, I wasn’t a great designer, I didn’t know anything about SEO or copy or conversions. But I really cared. And if I didn’t know something, I would be upfront about that. And I said that I would either figure it out. Or if I couldn’t figure it out, we’d find somebody to help. And honestly, that’s all it took for me to get started those first couple years.

Josh 52:36
And as you know, John, the reason I’m so passionate about getting back on my experience and sharing what I’ve learned mainly through free content, and through my courses, is that you can start your business and go through all my courses. And suddenly, you’ve got 10 years of experience that’s filtered down through you and you’re suddenly not a deer in the headlights kind of look, when you’re going to a networking group, you’re like, Alright, maybe I’m brand new, and I got a lot to learn. But I at least know all this and this and this and this. And I think that is the value of, of, you know, training and investing in yourself early on in particular, like, Why do something that’s gonna take you 10 years when you can learn from somebody and fast track your journey.

Josh 53:16
That that’s definitely the approach that I have now, especially like, I’m always going through a course before I do something. I’ve done that through my podcast, this is how you and I got connected through Pat Flynn’s community. I went through his podcasting course before I started my podcast. I just recently went through his webinar course before I started doing master classes and webinars. And I’m about to go through his email course before I really revamped my email game. So yeah, very, very well said. And it sounds like you’re a student of that as well. Right? It’s probably why you’re reading once a day.

John 53:48
Yeah. Books, compress experts in a format that if you like consuming reading, it’s a great format. You like taking courses, visual audio, that’s how you consume content and ingest that. And there’s people that love communities, right be and there’s masterminds out there. There’s different ways people consume data in information. So if you like learning it, and this is business ownership is a lifelong learning. Like you cannot stop and be successful, you cannot stay stagnant because someone’s gonna overtake you. And you’re constantly not able to do everything like short, tight enough time to do everything that you want to do. And once you think you know everything, there’s something new that pops up and you want to learn it. Or someone new that is coming up with new software stack and you want to be a part of it. Right?

John 54:43
That’s the whole journey that I love businesses that get it right they’re always constantly trying to uplevel themselves up level the team up ladder map, more value, new new products and services, you know, new equipment, new whatever. It is because that’s life. If you’re constantly trying to get better in relationships, you know, your family or friends or wherever you’re at in your life, then at least you have a purpose that you’re driving and striving for. Right? But if you stop, it’s hard, right?

Josh 55:18
That’s a good point. That is a really good point I do. I know people in my life, whether it’s close family, or friends, or whatever, where they just kind of stopped, like, all their learning was done at 20. And they’re never going to read a book again. They’re set in their ways, they’re never going to expand their mind, they’re never going to grow empathy towards different people, or whatever that looks like on, you know, whatever that looks like I, I do that that’s really interesting. John, I tend to have so much more respect and attraction to people now who just don’t stop learning and are constantly growing.

Josh 55:54
I’ve found that to be more and more valuable. And if we bring this back to a business perspective, particularly when it comes to SEO, this is extra, extra important, because as you well know, SEO is changing. I mean, I don’t know what daily, weekly, monthly, definitely at least monthly. So it’s so important to think about the strategy and the content you’re producing, which is one reason I wanted to have you on because I think we’ve already hit a lot of really important points when it comes to even just tactically like bounce rate, retention, content strategy, when and where you’re going to post stuff quality over quantity. I’m just kind of rethinking some of the things we’ve gone over so far.

Josh 56:32
This is all really important in regards to SEO. And as it gets more competitive, as it gets more fluffy. I think probably an overarching thought to this. And I’m curious to see if he’ll back me up on this is the importance of of that good, just quality content. Because it’s interesting when I was featured on SPI Smart Passive Income blog, I googled the article. And I saw probably a dozen or so ripped off fake spammy articles that had similar names. But the keywords were different. For example, my name being Josh Hall, there was an article right below the main one that was Josh corridor. And I didn’t even know that kind of thing happened online to where on these popular blogs. They’ll do these repurpose, like spammy articles, and they’ll take a name like Hall, and they literally put corridor because it thought it was like instead of Hall put corridor, it was like this shifty, weird way to get a click like, I’m sure you’ve seen this in the SEO world. I was I was exposed to that, which is wild. But would you say one of the best ways to combat all those spammy links and all this fluff is just good real content,

Do the real thing as in, treat people the way you want to be treated. – John

John 57:50
Do the real thing as in, treat people the way you want to be treated? Focus on building, right the proper relationships, because it takes time to get a backlink get on podcast, joining communities, helping others see value. And producing content is so awesome. Like I’m producing YouTube videos now. And I’m actually launching it very soon. My channel and it’s a lot of work. So imagine all these people doing all this, they got to invest their time, effort, expertise, strategy. And if you do that properly, and you do it the best way you can, at least you can sleep at night, as opposed to trying to do these Blackhat shady stuff fast, quick, you know, short term, or spammy links and trying to try to spin articles. I mean, yes, there’s gonna be a lot of people like that out there. But do you want to be associated those type of people? And if you’re trying to be in business for 5 10 20 30 years, like, look at the future, look at what you want to be known as in the industry? Do you want to be known for those shady articles, or ones that are producing good, relevant, rich content that actually serves a purpose for your audience members?

Josh 59:11
And what like, out of curiosity, I imagine these black hat, you know, auto generated spammy type of sites. I imagine the only way they’re making money is to get a few clicks, and then hope that their ads on their site are going to generate money. Is that right? Like, what Why, yeah. Why are these sites here?

John 59:32
Purely ads, trying to just get more guest posts that people are willing to pay? But the real industry people like people that are in the whole space, they know the difference because we

Josh 59:48
Like, if somebody goes to Josh corridor and sees that article, they’re gonna know well, maybe they even don’t know me, it’s pretty clear that it was like ripped. So when I would bounce from that I would be able to tell immediately if this was jank or not. And you can just tell by the site design and the ads. It’s like, you know, this isn’t a good site.

John 1:00:07
But but it’s not for the purpose of Josh corridor, it could be someone that is paying for an SEO campaign. And people are doing shady stuff on behalf of the company. And as a business owner, they don’t know any different. But they’re using Blackhat techniques, but they’re already monetizing from someone paying for service. Right? So there’s a lot of different things people do out there in the world, right? And I always say, do it things that you know, are the right things to do that you could sleep at night. It’s a guy. And you would, you know, be proud of whatever you produce, right. Everything you do is more about longevity.

Josh 1:00:48
Yeah. And yeah, I mean, obviously, I stand by that mindset as well, I, I just can’t imagine, I can’t imagine being these folks who are creating these spammy sites and going to bed and be like, Wow, I ripped off a few sites today. I’m so glad that I, you know, like, can you I just, it’s a whole different mindset, I guess. And there’s a lot that goes into that. But it is really important in the SEO world, because this, this is the issue now is it’s so gunked up with crap. And look, I’ll be honest, hat’s off to Google. I don’t know if anyone from Google’s gonna listen to this. But if they do, I applaud you for trying to weed out that crap. And I think all of the the, the tactics they’ve taken with speed optimization and cutting down the keyword stuffing and spam, I think it’s great. I know it can be challenging for SEO consultants and web designers, because we have to keep evolving. There’s often more work to be done. But I think that is good for the long term. I mean, I guess I’ll throw that question back to you, John. How do you feel about Google? Do you think they’re doing a good job at what they can with combating this stuff?

John 1:01:56
Yeah, there’s a lot of spam still. People are trying to always beat the system faster, quicker. And, you know, like the Google three pack, for instance, people are keyword stuffing at a title or name, right. And then creating a fake address and optimizing and putting a ton of backlinks with anchor text or exact match with the keyword. And Google is trying their best using their AI, right, automation. But it also brings it back to the people who are like us that are spam fighters or people that are trying to just do things the right way. They’re reporting things when they see things that are wrong.

Josh 1:02:36
And yeah, that’s where like, that’s where the retention comes in. I’m sure too, right? Because Google knows, okay, this article looks really similar to this article. But this article, people are spending 10 minutes on this one, the average is 30 seconds. So do you think Google’s looking at that as a huge metric as well?

John 1:02:54
We’re sure. Because when you’re looking at like, you know, authority of a site, it makes no sense if it’s a high authority site, but no one’s actually, you know, reading the articles. And there’s huge bounce rates, how relevant is the content? How rich and how user intent focus, is it to satisfy the people seeking out that that article, and Google knows a time they’re like, you know, just like Apple, rightly, they’re the biggest brands in the world, they they hire the smartest people of experts, and they know everything about you and me, and they track behaviors. There’s they’re listening on Google Home, if you have a Android device, I’m sure they’re sniffing every behavior and action IP address or tracking everything. So you, as a user of some of these tools and search engines, you just have to understand like they’re trying to put ads at you wherever they can to monitor Yeah. And for us, it’s like, I just want to provide Google with the best results for my clients to make sure that they get good results by making sure that Google likes what they see, and positioning them as leaders in their space.

Josh 1:04:10
I’ve, I want to save a final question for you here as we wrap this up, but I am curious, what are you excited about from an SEO perspective? Like, is there something that all these changes despite all the challenges, is there something that excites you about maybe the changes to come in regards to SEO?

John 1:04:26
Yeah, Google is constantly changing, right? Like you mentioned, there’s always new updates and they update daily, by the way, and I think two years ago was like nine times a day, but some site or some major updates every month, there’s usually a major update. That’s a core update. That affects industry specific, like the medic, one or different industry, service providers, etc. But being on the polls is important, but always just want to do the right thing, right? Like I always look at the The customers that we are dealing with, are they good? Humans, good business owners. And if they are, those are the people that I want to work with.

John 1:05:09
If they are cutting corners, and they’re trying to do things, or they worked with people that I don’t really trust, then why should I support them and want to help them. So it’s same thing with Google, right? Like, you know, which websites are probably doing some spammy stuff, and, you know, taking bad action. So you should report them should be doing things to clean things up so that whatever you’re trying to do actually makes a difference, so that the users aren’t impacted. And it’s or us as yours to just work together collaboratively as a community. And there’s, it’s a global community of 1000s and 10s of 1000s of SEOs, from individuals, agency owners to contractors, and we, there’s a ton of good white hat people out there. But there’s also the same amount of people that are doing black hats.

Josh 1:06:06
More maybe a lot more or more.

John 1:06:09
And we’re just combating that, right. Like we’re trying to filter and help Google clean things up. And it’s, it’s a battle and going and I don’t think this industry is going anywhere, because it’s still the number one search engine, and where people trust websites. And when they’re searching for a product and service, right. And they’re still in control. And, you know, Facebook tried to do search, but it’s still a pay to play paid ad platform, right? YouTube is more video centric, and a lot of website owners can’t afford are not comfortable creating content on video. So that’s a huge segment that doesn’t produce a YouTube channel. So understanding websites are still affordable to produce. And they’re still mass potential, because a lot of business owners still having built a website, low, low, wanting to optimize. So it’s still a huge marketplace of people searching and wanting the best results. And that’s why it keeps us employed, because there’s always demand of potential customers out there.

Josh 1:07:18
I agree. That’s one thing I’ve been telling a lot of my students, particularly if they’re getting started is now’s an amazing time because somebody can throw all the money ads they want, but where are they going to send them if they don’t have a website? Nowhere. So the website is the hub that is the foundation and then you then you build out your content, your SEO, your videos, your digital marketing, etc. So I agree, I think that’s really exciting. I have one final question for you, John. But I am curious, where would you like my audience to go to check you out? I know, you mentioned you got a YouTube channel coming out soon. Is there a certain resource you’d like us to link to and mention for my audience to go to connect with you?

John 1:07:55
Yeah. So right now, the main websites local SEO search.ca. So we’ve revamped the website a couple times since our last call, podcast. And also the YouTube channel will be live by the time this gets live. So you can check it out, go on YouTube, local SEO search, I’ve invested last six months on really hiring two experts to then produce script and then hire a videographer to produce it. So all this awesome, I’ve never done this before, but I’m going to do it properly. And right.

John 1:08:26
Just like when I do an SEO campaign, I might as well invest in the people expertise, and do it properly the first time. And then it’s always adjusting right tweaking, I’m also working on a community as well, just like yourself. It’s called the Business Sphere. And it’s going to be a lot of fun, because it’s more about business. Just trying to build a business. And it’s, you know, there’s gonna be a lot of different topics from mindset to, you know, how to run a service based product base, how to procure supply chain, and ensure that you take care of your clients operations, accounting, bookkeeping, this gives me a lot of fun. And these are things that keeps me going, right, because if you’re able to serve as many people in touch as many people as possible, we still have our podcast. So that’s a lot of fun. But there’s a lot of things apart,

Josh 1:09:19
What is the podcast called, by the way?

John 1:09:21
So I rebranded to the Business Sphere as well, so called the business sphere, the community’s gonna be called the business sphere. But the YouTube channel is still local SEO search.

Josh 1:09:32
Okay, cool. Cool. Yeah, we’ll link all this up in the show notes. I’m definitely excited to check that out. Should be super, super cool. Man. I did hear recently that I don’t know where they’d studied this or what the metrics were on this but it sounds like out. After about seven years, most business owners and entrepreneurs tend to pivot or add something or tweak their services or scale or do something completely different. So it looks like you’re or you’re about right on that Track about seven years in, you got more entrepreneurial, and maybe, you know, got out of running the business and as an operator and became the owner and you know, scaled, and now you’re branching out in a broader business kind of stuff, I definitely found the same for me, it was about seven years when I scaled, and then a few years after that, when I started teaching and going full time with this, so that definitely, that’s interesting. That makes a lot of sense.

Josh 1:10:22
Then I am curious, my final question for you, man, if a local business owner or web designer is like, Okay, I want to get serious about SEO. But where do I start? What would you advise for them? Would you advise them on like, what type of content they enjoy? What’s the starting point for somebody who is has the right mindset, they know, it’s not going to be an overnight thing? They know, they’re not gonna, you know, hire you guys for three months, but they’re serious about the long game? What What, what’s your initial advice for them?

John 1:10:51
So depending on if they want to do it themselves, so they want to hire an expert that has a proven track record. And if they are trying to do it themselves, there’s a ton of content out there, I would go with the biggest players Search Engine Journal, Moz. H refs has good reference blogs out there. I mean, there’s tons of information out there to learn. And I would say, join a couple webinars and get comfortable with terminology and expectations of what are the major pillars. So once you get some knowledge behind it, then you can ask the right questions when you’re looking for a service provider, because you don’t want to act like you don’t know anything, because they’re gonna walk all over you. And they might not even want to service you properly, because you don’t know what you don’t know.

John 1:11:41
So be knowledgeable to a point that you will ask the right questions, that they’re a good fit for where you’re at in your business, because there’s different price tiers and different service offerings that agencies provide. So look at what you need, and find people or agencies or companies that serve what you’re looking for. And they have to match based on where you’re at in your business journey.

Josh 1:12:09
Gotcha. That’s beautiful. That’s well said, man. I love that I couldn’t have said it better myself. Um, that’s a great, great advice. So what a great way to cap this off. John, thank you so much for your time today, dude, really, really enjoyed talking with you again, and I’m excited to see why you you know you’ll be into by this time next year.

John 1:12:27
Thanks a lot, Josh. It was my pleasure. And thanks again for you and your audience members for having me back.

Josh 1:12:33
Absolutely, man. Keep at it.


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