If you’re interested in starting your own web design business this year or finally going from side-hustle to full time, I’m willing to bet you’re probably super excited and completely terrified at the same time…and that’s ok!

I remember well that my apprehension came from viewing other professional web designers and agencies who are so far along in the journey and are talking about 6-7 figures and I was just wanting to know how to get started.

Well, in this podcast episode, I’m so excited to bring in one of my amazing students, UK based web designer Jamila Jones, who is early in her journey but is making ALL the right moves.

In this chat, we cover her tactics for starting her business, how she started getting her first few clients, how she learned web design and refined her processes, how her mindset has already started shifting as a business owner and how she’s balancing a new business while working from home.

While it’s awesome to talk with seasoned entrepreneurs, web designers and business owners, it’s equally valuable to get into the mind of someone who is early in the journey and Jamila is such a great example of how to get started in web design THE RIGHT WAY. She shares some invaluable tips and lessons in this chat that I wish I would’ve heard early on.

If you’re just starting or even if you’ve been at it a while, I know you’ll walk away with so many great takeaways from this one!!

In this episode:

00:00 – Introduction
03:54 – Greeting to Jamila
09:05 – Start with personal network
12:45 – Charging right away
16:39 – Discover what works
18:43 – Research in the slow times
20:14 – Superpowers
23:40 – Invest in yourself
27:50 – Increase self-confidence
30:53 – Set goals
32:21 – Are you ready to scale
36:59 – Have a marketing strategy
41:17 – Mindset can make or break
52:03 – Learn sales techniques
55:29 – Take a failure and grow
1:00:28 – Top lesson learned so far
1:04:14 – Rewards
1:08:09 – Thoughts to get started

Josh Hall Web Design Club

Connect with Jamila:

Featured links mentioned:

Are you ready to start your Web Design Business? Start Here!

Episode #161 Full Transcription

Josh 0:14
Hello, friends, welcome into the podcast. This is episode 161. So if you are somebody who is thinking about starting your web design business, or if you have a side hustle that you really want to take full time, especially this year, because this episode is coming out early 2022. This is your episode, I’m super excited to bring in one of my web design students who is early in her journey in her career in web design but is killing it and doing such a good job. She’s actually she’s doing such a good job in her first year of her business that I wanted to bring her on the podcast to share what she’s learning in real time.

Josh 0:53
This is Jamila Jones, who is a freelance web designer based out of the UK. And as I just mentioned, she’s doing an incredible job. And the reason I wanted to have her on, particularly right now to kick off this year is because, you know, I’ve had a lot of recent guests on the podcast who have been seasoned entrepreneurs. I recently had Troy Dean, who is a WordPress legend. He’s been in the game for decades now I’ve had James Farmer who is the CEO of WPM you dev he was on recently, as well. So I’ve had some, you know, really seasoned web design entrepreneurs.

Josh 1:24
But what I find equally valuable and equally as important is to hear from somebody who’s early in the journey, because when you get to running a business decade, like a decade or more, I find that sometimes those first important lessons in the first year or so of your business, they get lost, they just they evaporate over time, or you just can’t remember quite what it was like when you’re just wanting to get your first client. You know, a lot of people talk about getting the six and seven figures. And for those of you who are just starting, I remember this feeling like I don’t even I can’t even fathom seven figures, I just want to get my first client. That’s why I wanted to do this episode for you.

Josh 2:00
Jamila is doing such an amazing job in her business, which is called the Virtual click, I actually highly recommend checking out her site, the virtual click calm. For some inspiration, you’ll hear a little bit more about her brand name and why she chose that name and her background. But she was awesome. She talks in depth about and really opens up about her experience with getting her first few clients house he learned design and the web design process and what resources she’s learned from, as I mentioned, she is a student of mine.

Josh 2:28
But she’s also learned from a lot of other web entrepreneurs as well, which is great. And a lot of colleagues who have subsequently been guests on this show, she’s taking their courses as well. And she’s really learned so much and elevated her brand and elevated her first year for business, I just think she is a shining example of how to get into web design and how to do it right in year one. So you’re gonna take so much from this conversation, I know it from getting clients, to running your business, to, you know, scaling on a lower level, to processes and all sorts of things I’m excited for you to take from this episode. So really, really excited.

Josh 3:05
Before we dive in. I do want to help you if you are interested in again, either starting your web design business or going from side hustle to full time and you’re just a little terrified. And you’re it’s daunting, you don’t know what to do where to go. I do have a 10 step free action plan that will help give you the proven path I recommend when starting your business. Just go to Josh Hall co/start. And you can pick that up, you can just let me know what email and send that to and I will send you my 10 Step action plan which is free it is what I would recommend the path that you follow to get started in a web design. And without further ado, here is Jamila. Get ready to have some fun and get ready to learn a lot specially for those of you who are early on in your journey. Enjoy

Josh 3:54
Jamila, welcome onto the show. awesome to have you on. Thanks for taking sometime today.

Jamila 3:59
Oh, thanks, Josh. I’m so glad to be here.

Josh 4:01
Or thanks for having taken some time tonight. Right? It’s almost getting close anything time for you. Right?

Jamila 4:06
Yeah, it’s four o’clock the center be setting soon. So yeah. Yes. 4pm

Josh 4:12
4pm. Okay, awesome. Yeah. I appreciate you taking some time later in the day. Let’s start out with that Jamila, maybe where you’re based out of and then I’m curious now that you’re fairly new into web design, when people ask you what do you do? What do you tell them?

Jamila 4:25
Right, so yeah, so I’m Jamila. And I’m based in the UK United Kingdom I live in a city called Leicester City. And I tell them that I’m a freelance web designer. And I help small to medium business owners to get online get more visible online by building high converting websites so they can get more customers. Notice what I tell them

Josh 4:48
What a great little condensed, concise elevator pitch I love it. Yeah,

Jamila 4:53
It may change down the road you know, as I keep changing my niche and wherever we live or no,

Josh 4:59
Of course Of course, yeah, but what a great way to start actually meant to ask I tend to emphasize the AI in your name. Jamila, do you? Do you pronounce it Jamila? Is that right?

Jamila 5:10
Yeah. Jamila some people say Jamelia, but it’s Jamila. Okay, okay. It means beautiful in Arabic. Yeah.

Josh 5:16
Oh, awesome. Awesome. Yeah. Now I’m curious, based in the UK have have you been in? Have you lived in the UK all your life? Or what has your story looked like?

Jamila 5:25
Yeah, I was born in the UK and I can I was born in Bristol. And now live in a city of less like I said, but yeah, I was born here. My parents are from the Caribbean of Jamaica, in that. So yeah. Oh, right. Yeah.

Josh 5:40
Awesome. That is on my bucket list. I have Jamaica. Ever since I watched Oh, ever since I saw Cool Runnings. I like I want to get to Jamaica sometime. That’s for sure. Awesome, awesome. Well, that’s that just encouraged me to maybe put that in the plans here. As soon as we can leave the kiddos for a little bit. Well, awesome. Jamil. I’m so excited to chat with you about this. You’re early on in the journey. It’s been really cool for me as your coach, and you’ve been through some courses, and you’re part of my web design club. It’s been really cool. Seeing what you’ve done so far, early in your journey.

Josh 6:15
Like I said, before we went live here, I really enjoy talking with people all across the spectrum from, you know, advanced experts in the industry to people who are, you know, a few years into it, and people who are just starting because I think sometimes the best lessons you get early on, you can kind of forget about or you’re so detached from those, which is why I think it’s so important to hone in on some of those first few lessons learned when it comes to building sites, getting clients and building your business. So I figured we’ll just have a fun open chat about that. I think it would be great to get a little bit of context from you, Jamila, when did you officially start your business? And what were you doing before you got into web design?

Jamila 6:55
So I officially started just before COVID? Yeah,

Josh 7:02
I thought it was about a year ago.

Jamila 7:05
Yeah. Alright. So before that, I was actually in the travel industry, I I built a website, I was in a partnership with somebody. And then because of COVID, as you know, I couldn’t get any more bookings. And that so I had to change. So I thought like, what can I do? So I thought I was going to I’m going to try and start building websites. So I started off actually as a virtual assistant.

Josh 7:35

Jamila 7:36
Yeah, I went into the VA, I thought, let me try do some admin because I’m my background is an admin in business. And I love tech. So I took a course on how to become a VA. And then I had to niche down, you know, like, they said, pick a niche, and I thought websites, I like building websites, I’ve I like WordPress, I’ve done a few. So I thought I’d give it a go and see. So that’s when I officially said right, I’m gonna, I changed it from so that’s why the name is virtual virtual click. Because as a virtual assistant, but now, you know, it’s the same name, but I’m a freelance web designer.

Josh 8:13
That’s what’s cool about your brand name, though. virtual clinic, which is your website is the virtual clinic.com. If anyone wants to check it out. What’s cool about that is you’re right, it does work. It totally works for really anything online. Because click you click

Jamila 8:25
Yeah, I did put that thought into actually, you know, I did actually have I want to work from home. I want it to be virtual. And it was just the mouse should have seen my first logo. It was awful. It was the mouse with a long lead on it, you know, but yeah, so I took some time thinking about the brand and all that and came up with that nice logo. And yeah,

Josh 8:48
Well, and I was curious, too. So when when you thought about web design more seriously? What was your experience up to that you had said that you had messed around with WordPress and done some sites? What were that was that just like, like Hobby just playing around since you enjoyed tech? Or did you do anything for friends or family before that?

Once I started to really take it serious, like I said, I got work from friends and referrals from them and that really sort of, that’s what happened. – Jamila

Jamila 9:05
Yeah, I, I came across WordPress back in 2019. I was teaching at the time and I wanted to put I wanted a blog. So I can put my resources on there. So I did that. And then I’m also involved with a charity. So I said, Yeah, I can build you, you know, and a go at building a website. And that didn’t come out too bad. Although there was I didn’t know anything about strategy or anything like that then, right. So I did that. And then once I started to really take it serious, like I said, I I got work from friends and referrals from them. And that really sort of Yeah, that’s what happened.

Josh 9:44
So that’s kind of the advice there right is when you when you start a lot of people always ask and I understand the question, how do I start getting clients? You did it the right way. You start with your personal network people who already know like and trust your friends family. Yeah. They may not be the best ideal clients, but by golly, it’s a great way to start. Yeah, often it’s who they know Did did you find that as well that once you started getting jobs through your personal network that people they knew became clients? How is it kind of how that started?

Jamila 10:15
Exactly. So that a friend of mine, she lives in Kenya, and she used to live in United Kingdom and she moved to Kenya. And she saw that she saw my Facebook, I’d put it on my social, I put up my profile that I was building websites now. And then she told her sister, and their sister contacted me. And that’s how I got her and I built a website for a WooCommerce website, e commerce website. Sorry, yeah, but I went for her. So in Kenya,

Josh 10:43
See, this is this is why I love hearing real examples of this, because I preach it all the time. I tell people start with your personal network. I’m sure you’ve heard me say that over and over. Yeah. But to hear it actually play out for you. Just like that is awesome. Because it works. That’s an actual case study example, you, you put it out on Facebook, your friend of yours, her sister reached out and boom, there’s a paying job like that is literally how to start getting clients. It’s honestly as simple as that, isn’t it?

Jamila 11:13
Yeah, most of the work that I have obviously is few referrals. And then I decided, because I could, I could only do so many at one time I decided to put out when I when things were a bit slow. I put out on WhatsApp, I’m in a business group on WhatsApp. And I put out a little thing that I’m doing websites, you know, we’d like a website and I got two people came, came back to me. And one of them came became a client, you know, the construction industry. So yes, that was how I got my first proper client,

Josh 11:47
I put in I do I want to talk about that particular project, we did a website review on that one in the web design club. And I was really impressed with your design aesthetics, and the conversion-based copy that you wrote, and everything, I just want to dive into that. But I don’t mean to say it’s, you know, super easy to get clients. But what I meant by saying that is just that you, you just have to put yourself out there. And that is the best way to get started. So I’m so glad that that you did that. And that was a good example of that. Now, I am curious, before we talk about some of the things you implemented to your business and how you actually started, you know, getting some of these first few clients. When did you feel comfortable to start actually charging for your designs? Because this this is a tricky thing. When you get started. It’s like, well, how many sites I do for friends or family or freebies before I feel comfortable? And like I’m offering enough value to charge for it. How long did that take you?

Jamila 12:40
Oh, god.

Josh 12:42
Yeah, to be like, exact by month or days.

Jamila 12:45
Okay, no, I actually, I started I did start charging. It was a very small amount. But I did charge right. So. So one of the first websites I did I think I didn’t want to, I don’t want to say the price is embarrassing.

Josh 13:01
My first one was 300. So

Jamila 13:03
Okay, well, it was just a little bit and at that time, I said to myself, I said to myself that I’m going to get it. I’m putting it out there so that you can come back to me. So I got testimonials for it, you know, and also to build up my portfolio. So that was the reason I had to start from somewhere, you know, so, yeah. So I would say for I started getting out of No. Like I said, I think from the very beginning I was charging Josh, right. But then why did I started to for each one, I started to increase I put more on I started to increase and like, you know, but I still have a problem. Sometimes I think to myself, you know, I have I don’t have imposter syndrome or whatever. Should I be charging this amount? And it’s probably I should be charging more really, but I you know, I still struggled pricing your what my value really is?

Josh 13:58
Yeah. Well, I know we talked about this because we had a chat in the club about this with the construction site that you mentioned that I did review, it was a beautiful site. I think I told you this sucker is at least or a 3500. And I forget what you charge for it, but it’s okay. Like even even if you’re you know half of that you’re still fairly new to the game you’re getting your feet wet you’re feeling you’re you’re really kind of finding yourself and who you are in the web design game and what your strengths are, what you enjoy doing. So I think that’s totally fine.

Josh 14:27
I mean, honestly, when it comes to pricing, and I think this is a good rule of thumb for everyone just starting out, you’re probably not going to feel too confident in your rates until you do it a few times and and until you land a bigger project. But what that shows you and what it showed me was the projects that I was building out for 500 To 1000 to 1500. Those same projects companies did pay me three to four to 5k and it didn’t bat an eye. So it did show me that. You know, once I felt comfortable to actually put that number on a proposal it can’t happen. And there’s a lot of confidence that comes when you do land one of those, you’re not gonna land all of them. But there’s something about like, wow, instead of me hustling and trying to get five websites done and 1000 now suddenly, I have one website, I can focus on maybe for a month or something, and just focus on that.

Josh 15:16
So I, you’re at a really exciting tangibility, because you’re at like this, this cusp of, you know, you’ve, you’ve done a lot of great work in the in the first year. So your business and now with where you’re at with your design, your copy, and just your tactics for building sites, you are definitely at the place where you can be charging the three to four to 5k. And I say that because I know we’re kind of this almost like a free coaching segment as we get into this, but which I guess is kind of cool. It’s a really fun chat. You when I saw your design, I wasn’t sure what to expect, because everyone has different backgrounds with design and tech and everything. But I was honestly really impressed with your that construction site. And I was like, wow, I was not expecting it to be this good.

Josh 16:01
So I’m kind of curious. Within I mean, that is let’s just say what you design within about a year for that construction site took me probably a good three to four years to get to that point. How did you do it so quick gets shed some light on the tips and tricks. Maybe we can Are you comfortable? We link that in the show notes or do you need to keep that that that project or do we need it? Does you need to keep that hidden for client purposes?

Jamila 16:27
No, I think he’s, I think he’d be okay with it.

Josh 16:29
Okay, cool. Yeah, well, we’ll link it in the show notes in case anyone wants to see it. But how did you learn how to build such a nice site in such a short amount of time? That’s the question. Oh, gosh.

Jamila 16:39
Okay, so what how did I start? I started off actually, like I said, I was I’ve been building for a while I started off my first sight was with WP WP bakery. Yeah, yes. Builders. I tried Elementor as well, but then okay, I found Divi. Right, so Divi, so basically I think that using Divi and I and you know customizing and looking at ever the templates and trying to emulate them or try to work out how they put them together. So I think that’s how I what I did and just practicing just practice, practice, practice Joshua, like, you know, so, and then finally, I took a course as well, I took a design course. I don’t know if I can say who with

Josh 17:31
Oh, sure.

Jamila 17:33
I took the design course with Divi Lover.

Josh 17:36
Okay. Oh, yeah, I was gonna say only my courses will be mentioned here. No, no, you’re welcome to. But yeah, Anya with Divi lover is awesome. She is a great designer.

Jamila 17:46
Yeah, yeah. So I took that. And I learned so much. So I applied a lot of what she taught when I was building the actual website is, which is a big difference to the ones that I’d built before. You know, so once you know about the hierarchy, and the typography and the space and all that, so yeah. So I think just practice practice, like I said, not you know, so

Josh 18:10
Did you model like, did you look at example sites because the term practicing I think it’s worthwhile talking about what that practicing is because you can design things over and over. But I think unless you have a clear roadmap of how to practice or what to design that that can be tricky. For some people, I always found a lot of confidence and just mimicking designs. Like if I saw a site that I really liked, I would just recreate that in Divi and then use that for a project. And then they loved it. And I was like, wow, it actually works and they love it. So let’s keep on Is that kind of what you mean by practicing?

Jamila 18:43
Yeah, yeah. So that’s what I would do is I would look at different types of websites, different ones. And if I saw something that I liked, then you know, I would try to blend it in with what I was doing that that’s at that time. So yes, that’s exactly what I meant.

Josh 18:58
Gotcha. Now, as we all know, in web design, there’s so many things you can learn from design, conversion, SEO, copy content, PageSpeed, all these other things. You’ve talked a little bit about tools. I do want to get into that. But I’m kind of curious. Did you feel overwhelmed, even like last year when you started learning web design, and how did you decide on what to focus on in the beginning of what to learn?

Jamila 19:26
Overwhelmed? Oh, I’m always feeling overwhelmed, Josh. Yeah. So what did I decide to focus on? I started to focus on web design and SEO, I fell in love with SEO. And then I picked another service that I like, all the things that I liked doing. Basically, I focused on two, which is web design, SEO, and I like writing as well. So I want so I’ve incorporated that into my services, which is content writing.

Josh 19:55
Okay. So how did you decide how did you how did you discover that you enjoyed those? Did you just play around with all sorts of aspects of web design and come to those, those three that you really enjoy? Because that’s, that’s something that I found out later on in my journey. How did you come to that so quickly as far as what you enjoyed working on?

Jamila 20:14
Okay, so when I was designing the website, obviously, as you’re going on, it’s like I had to learn the SEO. Because I remember a while back, when I first designed a website for myself, I had, I’m always going to look at businesses, I had a lot of business, it was called cumulus accessories. And this was years back, I built a website. It looked great. It was fantastic. But at that time, I didn’t know anything, Josh, about SEO and Google or any of that. And that was it. I didn’t realize that Google, you know, I had to connect it with Google.

Jamila 20:48
So now for Don, now, when I’m building, I started to learn more. And then I found out that with the with, when you design a website, you have to have SEO, otherwise, no one’s gonna find you. Right. So that’s how I found out about it, then I found out about keywords and optimize it, optimizing the pages so people can find you, you know, so fast what I liked, I like that actually putting all that together. And so not just designing the website, but designing a website, like I said, which couldn’t be, can be found. And so when I talk to customers, when I talk to clients, I could then tell them so that I not only build websites, but I can also, you know, optimize it for you. So you can get found online. So yeah, and I like and I think that’s, that’s what I liked about it. So I can combine the two, you know, so upgrade my services that way as well.

Josh 21:40
And you’re right, they they do go hand in hand. And the good news is is like I don’t love SEO, honestly, I don’t love that aspect of it. But the basics, like the fundamental things that you need and should do on a website are pretty easy. Would you back me up and saying that that once you know the basics, it’s actually pretty common sense, right?

Jamila 21:59
Yeah. Yeah. Well, if you don’t know, nobody, then yeah, yeah. You see, because like I said, I didn’t know at the time when I first started. Yeah, you know? Yeah. I didn’t know anything about SEO. And I didn’t know that then. But now I know. Yeah.

Josh 22:15
And how did you How do you know? How did you learn what? Because you said you started learning. I know a lot. I’m sure a lot of this is trial and error, and Google and maybe articles you’re finding, but were there any supportive groups that you were a part of? Was there any training that you took for SEO? How did you learn the basics of SEO?

Jamila 22:33
Yeah, so Google and YouTube and and just Yeah, I took a course as well on SEO online.

Josh 22:41

Jamila 22:42
So I saw I like, that’s why I liked it.

Josh 22:45
What was the SEO course he took?

Jamila 22:48
It was with Chase. Chase Reiner. I can’t remember Chase Reiner. I think his name is yeah, I took a course. He had he had I joined his elite, elite club for local SEO. I’m no longer in that now. But yeah, I took a course with Chase. Reiner.

Josh 23:07
Gotcha. Okay. Yeah, I’m not familiar with that. But that’s what’s really cool about web design is you can find somebody who resonates with you and has something like that, that can help you get from point A to point B and have a good understanding of it. It saves a lot of time. I’m, I’m interested, it sounds like you have invested in yourself. And I know you’ve been through some of my courses, and you’re investing in my club now. And I’m able to coach you there directly. Yeah, where did this mindset where did this mindset of investing in yourself come into play? Because it sounds like you’ve done this early on to try to help fast track your journey right.

Jamila 23:40
At the beginning of the beginning, I didn’t write Josh, but then afterwards why I decided to definitely invest in myself. And once I did that, once I did that, then I started to move move on. And I probably spent quite quite a bit but it’s worth it. Because trying to piece things together yourself. Right? It takes it takes so long, it takes longer. But once I decided to invest in the in the design course and that, you know, I started to I started to move forward you can see by the website that I designed which was the one that you liked, you know, so yeah, so definitely invest in yourself, I would always tell people to do that. And so that because once you’ve invested in yourself, the steps are laid out for you is so much more simpler and so much more fit and saving time.

I am so so so happy that I made the web design club because that is brilliant. I can’t believe that I’ve got access to you just like that. – Jamila

Jamila 24:30
And I am so so so happy that I made the web design club because that is brilliant. I can’t believe that I’ve got access to you just like that. You know, I’ll message you and then you messaged me back and I figured this is great you know and I’m in the in the in the group in the actual club. There’s so many I was a bit overwhelmed at first when I first went in there and I’m thinking oh my gosh, right you know all these experts everything but they are brilliant in there. So I you know I So glad that I’ve invested it. And I wish I’d done it from before. Because now I feel that, you know, I’ve got like, even though I’ve got my skills, but I’ve also got those skills from the other people as well as in the actual Club, which is really good. So I can know, I can always fall back on them if I need any help with anything. So

Josh 25:19
Well, gosh, you just gave me an amazing snippet to use, I might have to put that on the the landing page for the club, because what you said is like, that fills me up to me, because that is exactly why I wanted to create that I wanted to have a place where I could be able to coach and just give you, you know, advice, when you have questions that maybe you don’t want to put out publicly, maybe you maybe you have a question about pricing that you don’t feel comfortable posting in a Facebook group with 20,000 people or, or even in the club, if it’s, you know, in the community, you want to just keep it like to me with a with a mentorship type role. I think that that is the one of the main reasons I put that out there.

Josh 25:53
So I’m super excited to hear that. And it’s really cool for me, because I see people come through courses. And that’s awesome. But I often don’t see the results, I don’t see unless I intentionally put an email out there to say like, Hey, you know, send me some results, in which case, some people are busy, and they either forget or don’t have time. That’s what’s so amazing for me is to see your journey progress, step by step early in your journey. And like you said, You are early in the journey, but the club is filled with people who are right around the same zone, as you all the way to expert status, which is really cool. I think there’s a nice give and take.

Josh 26:28
I think that’s equally as important in a web design journey is to be in a place, whether it’s my club, or any sort of, you know, membership, or even even I mean, technically, you could do this in free Facebook groups, where there are people kind of above you and below you as far as experience goes, I think that’s really valuable, because you can learn but you can also share what you’ve learned. And even people who are brand new, it’s amazing how much you actually know, particularly if you go through a course or a training because suddenly, what they know is now what you know, that is a really powerful thing. I think that’s why you’re making such great strides and such great progress really quick.

Josh 27:04
So that’s awesome. Jamila, I really appreciate you saying that. That’s really, really cool to hear. And particularly, I think, you came in and you were very open and you were very transparent about what you’re doing. And you put yourself out there. That’s that’s not easy to do when you’re early on, but I think it sounds like you probably got some confidence from those courses and maybe previous projects I actually am curious. Where did some of your confidence early on come from? Was it the courses that you had been through? Was it doing some projects and actually seeing them being done? And on the on the interwebs? Like where did some of that confidence come from?

Jamila 27:41
The confidence is coming from me think

Josh 27:45
And I know it’s still building by the way? I know you’re probably not like forever but

Jamila 27:50
No, yeah, I’m still working on my confidence actually, Josh Yeah, you know, and definitely the club as definitely helped with that. I I’ve had to put myself out there. Okay, so designing websites, no one can see me I’m designing a website but then that then now comes the sales part I have to put myself out there for sales. And I have like I said most of my work has been for referrals. So for Okay, I’m going to put myself out there I need to make myself more visible. So this is what I what I’m trying to do right now. And this is why I’m here I’m actually making myself more visible out there. And by doing so, I find my confidence is growing because I did really like speaking in public you know, and that but I’ve pushed myself to do that as well.

Jamila 28:41
And each time I’ve done that my confidence is growing I’m not you know, and also the the feedback I’m getting for the websites like when you told me that my website was worth that that made me feel right okay, you know, I’m going to my game now so yeah, yeah, you know, and actually like I said, been in been in the club as well. It’s really nice really helps because if I doubt anything what I’m doing I can ask a question and they can give me guidance as well. So that really helps as

Josh 29:10
well. Yeah, that’s great. What great lessons already with building confidence it does. It can competence can come from a number of different ways. But what you said there I think is really common for for web designers, particularly when it comes to just getting out of your comfort zone. It’s It is interesting how getting out of your comfort zone builds confidence. And I maybe there’s probably a lot of psychological things behind that but I think when you do something that you’re that you’re not comfortable with or you don’t feel like you might not be ready for or it’s just out of your out of your zone of skill set or genius or even just comfort zone it does do something to you.

Josh 29:48
It’s like I guess it’s like anything whether it’s exercise and you know if you do a marathon or half marathon and something like I did a half marathon probably don’t do won’t do one again, but I did one and that really did change my mindset about what What I can do, and what I am able to, you know, push myself to do. But in business, it can be the same thing can be design, or it could be going to a networking group or doing this podcast you said before we went live, you said you’re pretty nervous but you said you’re you wanted to make it make it a goal to get out there more and make yourself more visible. And that is awesome.

Josh 30:20
And I think after this chat, on my hope is that you will in this call and a little while and you will feel more confident than ever. And my hope for you probably not a shocker is that I’m excited to help you get better on camera and to put yourself out there more on your website to and on the socials. Which, you know, that’s, that’s often easier than coming on to an interview or a podcast, because you can have time to edit. And you can you can make a little video that you have the time to you know, to make a new website and your social. So great lessons there with confidence. I love that

Jamila 30:53
Saying that Josh I am. So I’ve set myself little goals to get more visible. And I’ve opened up a smaller virtual click Group on Facebook, it’s a private group is hidden is women only. And I’ve got all my the members of my team on there, and I’ve got some clients that I’ve built websites for. And the idea is to get more visible, you know, on there. So I’m actually on there practicing, you know, I’m building up my self esteem and my confidence, and some of the other members in the group as well. So yeah,

Josh 31:32
That’s awesome. Now you said team there that caught me off guard. What? What is that? What is that?

Jamila 31:37
Okay, so what I’ve done, Josh by, okay, when you said about being overwhelmed, definitely definitely got overwhelmed. It was I got to a point where it was just too much where I’m trying to do everything my father recently came to live with me is 91 years ago. Yeah, yeah. So. So the dynamics of the the home change. So it’s a good is good that I work from home. So I’m able to do that as well. But running a business, as you know, you know, you’re on your own, it’s really overwhelming. And I Oh, even though I’ve just started, I knew that I can’t carry on my on my own. So what I did you sent out a webinar on scaling your business.

Josh 32:21

Jamila 32:21
So I don’t think I was ready to scale my business. But I knew that I couldn’t do on my own. So I took some of the elements from your webinar, to start putting process putting steps in place. So I started, I’m starting to actually put some SOPs and try to automate automation. So I’ve been exactly what you said, to write down the steps that you’re actually doing, and then try to put some systems in place. And then what I’ve actually done is I have been networking, and I’m now working with some other freelancers. I have an editor, which is helping with my blog. So we’ve, we’re doing a collaboration together.

Jamila 33:06
And I’ve taken on a Kickstarter, which is a it’s run by the government in the UK, it’s for 16 to 24 year olds who are at risk of long term employment, so they give you the funding, right to take to employ somebody. So I’ve got somebody starting on the first of December, and they’re gonna be doing my social media for me, as well. Wow, that’s awesome. Yeah. So So I’m taking so I’ve taken some elements on this efforts myself, I can’t do it on my own, I need some help. And I’ve got one more person which is an intern, she, she wants to be a online business manager. She’s a VA, so she’s helping me put some of those SOPs in place. So yeah, so they’re actually in the group. And we’re, you know, we’re trying to build each other up.

Josh 33:58
Ah, awesome. Awesome. Well, a great example. First of all, you’re very entrepreneurial. This is awesome. A great example, though of scaling to a level that you want to do. A lot of people think about scaling and growing a team and then immediately go to like, oh, man, I gotta have overhead and payroll, and I have to have 10 employees. That’s not the case. You can scale to whatever level you want. And I think what you’re doing, which is really powerful is a very key word you said in there, which is collaboration. You don’t necessarily have to bring on somebody, they handle a service in house, you can collaborate with a partner or a colleague, and I know that’s one reason you joined the club was to have this network of people who, you know, like, have you met? I don’t know if you met Michelle, my SEO gal in the club. But yeah, do keyword research.

Jamila 34:42

Josh 34:43
There you go. Boom, like that. That is exactly the conversation. Awesome, awesome. Like, yeah, that’s the thing. Like if you don’t want to do something yourself, partner up with somebody who is really good at that. And then you can work out how to do that on a project together. So that’s awesome. And you mentioned that scaling training that I did that is a free masterclass I’ll make sure yeah, I’m actually jot down some links, right. Yeah. Awesome. I’m so glad to hear that. It’s a free masterclass. Anyone listening can pick up and go through. Yeah.

Jamila 35:14
I’ve actually got your you know, you gave some free handouts. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I’ve got the more in front of me on my wall. I’ve put them on my desk. Yes. Yeah. So

Josh 35:28
That’s awesome. Yeah, at the end of that masterclass for anyone who wants to go through it, there’s a download, that’s actually a part of my business course, which is the client roadmap, which is basic, that is an SOP. It’s a standard operating procedure. It’s a checklist of every the whole client experience from start to finish. So I’m really glad to hear that worked out for you well, Jamil, and that you’ve got on your wall, that’s, there may be no better compliment for me then if somebody has put one of my checklists on their wall. Does it get any better than that? I don’t know.

Jamila 35:58
Yeah, but it’s definitely helping me. My confidence has grown so much. And I thought I can do this. I don’t have to scale she was it the six figures, I can just start putting implement in some small things, you know, until I get there.

Josh 36:12
Yeah, gosh, that’s awesome. Now, clients, you’re at a place in your business where you’re you’re getting more confidence. You’re you’ve you know, you’ve gone through trainings, you’ve experimented, you’ve learned a lot about web design, SEO, copy, all this stuff that’s involved with creating a nice, solid website that can be you can be building off of, and of course, the learning will never end. I’m still learning stuff all the time. Yeah. Let’s talk about clients. So now you’re in this place. I’d love to talk about your strategy. You said you’ve got some goals. For clients. A lot of your stuff has been referral based so far. Do you plan on doing any other outbound marketing, like networking or social media? What is your client acquisition strategy look like? Moving forward now?

Jamila 36:59
Yeah, I’m trying to put something together. Now. Does that mean that I haven’t looked at it properly? But I thought I’m going to do like I said, social media first. Write social media, and focus on getting clients with email marketing. I don’t know if I’m happy doing it is it cold sales. Were you?

Josh 37:18
Oh, yeah.

Jamila 37:21
Yeah. So I, I don’t feel like I want to do that. So I need to get a strategy in place for that. So I haven’t actually, you know, looked at that properly yet, but I will be doing that. Yeah. So like I said, Yeah, social media, and I’m going to do email marketing. And I think can have when I get some work, so I’ve just put up, I’ve nearly put up, you know, the your maintenance course, I did the maintenance course. Yeah. Yeah, you’ve upgraded it. So I’ve gone back, and I’ve nearly finished it. And I’m going to put that up. So what I want to do is to have some opt ins and landing page and maybe you know, to get some more to get the sales and start marketing, those actual different services that I’m doing.

Josh 38:10
Awesome. Awesome. Yeah, I couldn’t encourage you and everyone enough to get that recurring income going with hosting and maintenance. Yeah, sure. It is the foundation of a web design business. It’ll open up so many doors for you moving forward. Yeah, I was kind of curious about now that you’re in this place your business where you are, you know, technically scaling at a lower level with what you want to do to help free yourself up your your bandwidth your time. But now the question is, okay, how do I get a consistent pipeline of clients, which is what I’m really excited about, because referrals are awesome. Referrals are how I built my business. But I heard it said very eloquently, that referrals are like rain, it’s gonna rain at some point. But sometimes you don’t know when it’s gonna rain. So sometimes there’s like a flood of referrals. And then you may have a dry season where for whatever reason, there’s just no referrals coming in. So a proactive marketing approach is definitely key to at least have as a part of your strategy. And this is kind of coaching advice for you and everyone.

Jamila 39:05

Josh 39:07
Are there any, like networking groups in your area, or meetups or any in person type of business things that you’re aware of?

Jamila 39:14
That the only thing I haven’t done yet is actually the physical networking because of COVID and online and back, but I have joined some networking groups on social media. And that you know, so I’ve been on a few of those.

Josh 39:28
Okay. A lot of the a lot of the in person groups are doing like zoom calls, like my network group went to zoom all through 2020. So that’s often an option too. I mean, I think some places if there are still some harsh restrictions, or if people aren’t feeling comfortable, there are a lot of options like that for like online business groups, which is where I think you would, you know, you’d find probably your quickest ROI would be to do something like that, particularly in your area because if you’re local I mean, of course, you’re you’re can work with anywhere, anyone, anywhere. But local businesses that get a chance to meet Jamila and know your story and know your background, and I think that can be pretty powerful. So that would definitely be kind of a challenge for you is to maybe look into that, as far as like an outbound intentional marketing funnel for you. Yeah,

Jamila 40:15
I’m going to put some sort of strategy in place, I’m gonna have to look at the next thing. I’m gonna Okay,

Josh 40:21
Well, let’s see, we’re recording this at the end of November. This, this will probably come out and beginning in the new year, but at the time of recording this, I’m actually just about to lay out a complete guide for getting clients. So I will send that to you.

Jamila 40:36
Yes. That’s definitely I need that right. Yeah, that’s

Josh 40:40
Okay. Okay, that’s good fire for me to get that going. I actually might start it next week, because I’m planning on making it a free masterclass that anyone can, can go through. So awesome. That’s great. Jamila. Well, that is super exciting. What a cool path so far, early in your journey. We talked a lot about training, we’ve talked about a lot. I think a lot of it has to do with mindset. I mean, it seems like belief mindset of doing it. Would you like how important is that particularly early on that you’re the mindset and the belief in what you can achieve now and can achieve moving forward?

Jamila 41:17
Yeah. I say my mindset is quite good until recently. My mindset, I I visualize myself, like, visualize, you know, to visualize things. Yeah. I mean, I mean, so all of that. And I visualized myself when I started this business. On a, I saw myself on a beach. Yeah. And I had a phone in my hand and I was chatting to my team. And I had a website. So some of the things that I visualize have come true. Okay, so they have come they to me, they’ve come to you, but I’ve not reached that beach yet. And that is back. And actually, that beach is the sum of my branding colors, you know, the blue and the sand.

Josh 42:01
I was gonna say this probably isn’t like a British shore. Right? This is probably like a nice day. Yeah.

Jamila 42:07
No, not to make her not Jamaica. Did nice speech, because I’ve been to Jamaica, right. But wherever it is, right is a different person than I am now. It’s a more confident person. And she’s, you know, she’s doing it. And I believe I’m getting there. But then when I started the web design, and then I got into your group, imposter syndrome, kind of like, a little bit, you know, and, yeah, and also with being overwhelmed. And I started to like, feel, you know, those voices inside of my head saying, What do you think you’re doing, you’re not gonna quit, you know, you can’t do this, you know, like, all negative talk to I got to a point where I felt I needed to do something about it. So I actually reached out to a life coach, and the life coach I reached out to was, I built a website, actually, yeah. Yeah. And I reached out to her, and it was the best thing I ever did. Because it really, it really helped. To push me push me forward and to see where I was getting stuck. Because basically, I was just, I love working. I was just working, working, working, and I wasn’t, why wouldn’t we call it? I was working, living to work. Was it working to live Okay,

Josh 43:24
Yeah, yeah. Or you’re living to work instead of working to live? Yeah,

Jamila 43:28
Yeah, you know, and I was just focused on that. And everything else around me was just falling apart, you know, and my, you know, I confidence went down. And then I started working on my mindset, you know, and talking to those little voices in my head, and to know, I am a confident person or whatever. So, mindset, I would say, is the most important thing. First, to take care of your mind and taking care of any limiting beliefs that you have. So I make sure now that I keep a track of my mind, I don’t want to get that again. And I’m sure I probably will do but I want to make sure that you know, just as well I’m as I’m putting strategies in place. I’m also putting strategies in place for my mindset as well. So to now I every single day, when I get up after I’ve prayed, I will do self-hypnosis, confidence building, which has really, really helped me right, to keep away the negative thoughts that we all that we all get. Yeah, and I’m constantly listening to you know, positive talks on YouTube and all that you know, so yeah, mindset definitely.

Josh 44:43
That’s awesome. Something really important. You said there regarding imposter syndrome was that when you whether it was my club or other groups and other networks, a part of web designers, you started feeling like an imposter. And this is really important because I think this is really common. While it is, as you’ve seen as You’ve already stated so valuable for you to be in that club. It can be imposter syndrome inducing because suddenly realize, oh, wow, now I’m going in with people who know a lot more than me. And again, there are people who know less than you. But there’s a lot of people who might know more.

Josh 45:15
The trick though, and the reason I want to point this out is and I think you’ve already realized this is when it comes to imposter syndrome. You have to look forward in your lane and your journey as soon as you start looking at everyone else around you and focusing on them. That is when imposter syndrome comes in. And the comparison that is really honestly, like, imposter syndrome is such a popular topic. We’ve talked about it a lot on the podcast. But honestly, the key to ending it is ending comparison. Like you can you i I’m so glad you you’ve already talked about the club and the way that you’re using it like you’re getting inspiration, you’re getting help, you’re getting encouragement.

Josh 45:53
But as soon as you start looking at these other designers and thinking, Ah, there’s so much better than I am, they know so much more, how am I going to get to that point, then suddenly it starts to shift and that imposter syndrome creeps in. But if you stay in your lane, you look forward. And I’m just saying this as a broad general rule of getting over imposter syndrome. And you just look at the progress that you have made. That is That is what’s key. That is how to end imposter syndrome. It sounds like did you did you kind of realize that that maybe you were looking at other people too much and comparing yourself? Or did you just kind of come about that naturally that

Jamila 46:28
I can compare it especially like I said, when I did that, that website, I didn’t know I didn’t haven’t that that feedback until you gave me the feedback and you told me it was okay. But then also it was comforting to know in the club because a friend was opened up about imposter syndrome. And there were, you know, the web designers in there that has been designing websites for years, you know, and very skilled and they saw suffered sometimes with imposter syndrome. So it showed me that it doesn’t matter how, how far you get, you know, you can still get imposter syndrome. So it’s good to take care of that your mindset and definitely don’t compare. And just be true to I just now Just be true to my true to myself. And you know, believe in myself.

Josh 47:18
Well, that’s awesome an interview, look at your progress. Just when you started your business during the beginning of COVID. And everything like what amazing progress you’ve made. I’ll tell you right now we want to talk about comparison, you may have made much greater strides, in a way a shorter amount of time than I did my first year and a half in business. So that is awesome. Like if you look at your progress and what you’ve done every day, and I think you’re obviously a big learner, you’re very intentional about filling your mind with good things that are going to help you move forward that that really is key. If you focus on the negative and you focus on what can go wrong or you focus on what you’re not good at, even if it’s just not right now that’s that’s what brings you down.

Josh 47:57
So such valuable advice with that and even set right there. And no matter how advanced and expert status somebody is everyone faces some sort of imposter syndrome. What see I had Kenny Sing on who was one of the creators of Divi earlier on in the podcast. And something he talked about because he worked for Google for a little while. I think either he had a part after remember, I think he either had a part in setting up a talk on imposter syndrome. Or he went to one thinking that maybe there would just be you know, a dozen people there or something. But there was like an auditorium full of hundreds of people from Google, that all felt like this. And he had no idea they were all feeling like that.

Josh 48:38
It sounds like maybe you experienced that in the club in some of our threads where we do openly talk about imposter syndrome suddenly realize, okay, I’m not the only one here feeling this like we’re all we’re all feeling this in a weird way. I feel it sometimes even in my own club when there’s something that I don’t know. And that’s often the case, like, somebody just asked me a question recently. I’m like, I feel like I should know this. But I don’t. And I don’t know everything. Luckily, I can turn to somebody in the club who is going to know that. And this is another important when it comes to and I think this is really important for this topic of you know, starting early on and lessons learned early on in the journey.

Josh 49:15
Yeah, you may not be the best at SEO or design or content, but maybe you’re really good at like development stuff and that’s your your niche. That is what you’re really good at. Or vice versa. Maybe you’re really good at front end design. You’re terrible at SEO and content you can’t write for anything but man you can design focus on that make that your area focus and focus on what you’re good at and what you like. I think that’s key and it sounds like you’ve already discovered that with your journey right with focusing on the the areas of things that you love to do.

Jamila 49:45
Yeah, definitely. I was just gonna say that the thing that I’ve with as my build my business is building, you know, as I’m growing, I’m growing as well. You know, so yeah, so the to go hand in hand So, you know, I come I come across challenges or roadblocks. And I think well Jubilee, are you going to push yourself forward with this? Or you’re going to stay back? So yeah, so I find that those as I’m growing with my business, I’m my self development as well is growing, which is a good thing.

Josh 50:20
It is a good thing. And whether that’s intentional, like you start with your mindset and your personal growth, or whether it comes through, it really works both ways. It comes through life experience and more projects and working with clients. But I do think the more intentional you are about self development early on, that’s the best thing you can do. I, there was no coincidence that when I took my business to a whole nother level, it was when I suddenly started reading books, and I suddenly started getting more intentional about personal development, and those type of things that helped me feel more confident with my sales, my services, and just my approach to wanting to solve problems. At the end of the day, what we’re doing as web designers is solving a problem for our clients.

Josh 51:05
So I think that’s a big emphasis that a lot of people tend to overlook early on is you just want to how do I build the best website? Well, the best website for this client may look completely different than the best website for this client, the heart of what you’re doing is solving a problem for a client, and then by making and creating the quickest solution and strategy to solve that problem. So have you found that as well, like, as you I know, your sales have looked a little bit different, because it’s referral base. But if you even thought about that recently, with having more of a serve in solve problems over just a sell type of solution, have you? Have you experienced any of that?

Jamila 51:45
You mean, on when it comes to designing the websites?

Josh 51:50
Even when somebody gets referred to you? Maybe that’s a better question. How do you approach that? Because it’s a warm lead, which is awesome. But you still got to close the deal? How have you gone about closing some of those referrals?

Jamila 52:04
Yeah, so yeah, I learned a little bit about sales, I had to because my roof, the very first one I had didn’t go didn’t go very well, the actual conversation on the phone. So I looked into sales, and I focus more when people are talking to me, I listened more now. Right, so I’ll ask them, I tend to listen more. I asked them, you know what it is they would like their website to do. And then while they’re talking to me, I will pick out the problems or you know, what they actually what they actually want to, to the outcome to be. And from then I look at the pain points, and I’ll come back by the time I finished the conversation with them, I’ll come back. And I pick out all the problems, which they’ve already told me. And I tell them the solutions, and then also meet some of their expectations.

Jamila 52:59
Sometimes they don’t realize that they need, you know, how to get traffic to their website and all that. So I pick out all those little things, I’ll come back and break it down for them. And then they get like, a bit, sometimes a bit overwhelmed with all and then I’ll break it down and say you don’t need to do all at once we can put we can do this in phases as well. So I’ve learned that and I’ve learned, I don’t know, a kind of what is called that there’s a I can approach people in different ways. I’ve learned that there’s like there’s four different types of people.

Jamila 53:30
Yeah, that’s what it is. Yeah, I learned that very, very helpful. Because the client that I’ve I’m working with at the moment is quite similar to me, where he’s a very detailed person, you know, so when I sent his proposal to him, I sent it with a loom video. And I went through all the details explaining everything in that. And even after I did that, he still came back on the phone with me, and he still wants to go through it again, you know, so I learned about you, like I said, DISC, which was really, really helpful. And I started implementing that in all my proposals now that when I send that proposal, I will send a loom video explaining everything and explaining what I can do with their website picking out all the problems and you know, and the solutions and that yeah, so

Josh 54:23
Gosh, that’s so well said you know that I mean that that right there, you just laid out exactly the the proven path and framework for sales calls, which is to listen first, take notes on what the challenges are and and lay out some solutions and strategies for that. And when those solutions and strategies look overwhelming for the client, you said it, you break it down into phases. Well don’t worry about all this right now. Let’s start with the website design. Like let’s start with the build and let’s even if you you want to do content marketing and a blog eventually we don’t need to do that phase one that can be phased two, first, before you do SEO, and any PPC ads or anything like that pay per click or any other marketing. Let’s just start with building a nice website, then Phase two will be the marketing end of things. And then we can add more pages and do more linking. Very well said, because that really is the key. Do you? Do you think I do want to talk about disk real quick for anyone doesn’t know about that. But the call that went badly? Did you feel like you tried to sell too quick, in a way? Or what? What were some of the reasons that went bad?

Jamila 55:29
I didn’t have no sales experience. I didn’t know what I was doing. I had a questionnaire it was way too long, right? And so I got on the phone and I wanted to go through every single question. And I and I’m like, no, no, I’m supposed to be the one who’s talkin. And to go through that, so I did it the complete opposite, you know, the wrong way around. And then I thought, Well, that didn’t go down very well, you know what? So I thought, well, let me go and do research and find out the best way to do it. And that’s exactly what I did. And that, you know, so yeah,

Josh 56:02
That’s awesome. Well, I’ve put out a couple episodes on sales. So anyone can just search the podcast just and actually, if anyone doesn’t know, for the for the podcast, you can just go to my website and click the little search icon. And you can just click, say, just put sales in there, and there’ll be a bunch of resources that will come up for you. But that’s exactly what I talked about, as well I learned, the more I listened particularly at first, that was the key. And then suddenly the client feels like you’re like having the best conversation ever, when actually you’re not talking at all. They’re just excusing out all their problems and issues and challenges and fears and and then when you come in with those pain points and offer some solutions you need if you don’t know exactly how to address them all yet, you can say, there’s some areas here that I’m going to work on, I’m going to find out if you don’t have an answer to a question.

Josh 56:47
There’s nothing wrong with saying, I don’t know, but I’m going to look into it. That is absolutely key. And then I don’t know if you did this intentionally or not. But when they when they kind of are talking about their pain points and challenges. Those are the keywords, those are the keywords to use at the end of the conversation. This is just a sales tip that I learned, which is basically just called matching and mirroring. And if you just kind of regurgitate those words at the end and say, Listen, I know your challenge was, you know, an outdated website. So we want to give you a fresh modern site. They’re like, Oh, yes, that’s what I wanted. Invaluable sales tips.

Josh 57:20
And like you said, different personality types are real thing you do have to learn to sell differently to certain people. Now, when you have your process in place with proposals and all that stuff, it can kind of limit that. But when it comes to like a discovery call, or these initial calls, this is really key. For anyone who doesn’t know, disk is basically just an acronym for like, well, there’s different versions of it. But there’s like dominant, there’s interactive. I’ve heard SB stable, quite a few different kind of SS and in C is usually cautious. So the cost is people are very detail oriented often and they need numbers they need those are like the bankers and the accountants and the bean counters.

Josh 58:05
Like completely opposite of me, I don’t have to see in my body. I am like, hi, I very interactive, I enjoy this kind of thing. And I’m also a high risk, I’m fine with some risk. I’m a little bit of dominant, but that’s more reactionary. I’m a very high is very loyal and very stable and secure. With what I’m doing. That is key to learn with sales, because each one of those personality types will be different. I know. I had a high D dominant guy reached out to me one time and it took me completely off guard, because he was this kind of tough, gruff blue collar kind of dude who saw a little video I did for my old Chamber of Commerce, where I just talked about my services. And he’s like, Hey, Josh, I saw your video. I liked it a lot. How much would you charge for a logo? And it was just like that quick. There was no like, Yeah, I’m Dan, it’s nice to meet you, whatever. It was just like how much would you charge for a logo? And I was like, Ah, he’s like, Well, what are we talking? We’re talking 500 1000. I was like, 750. And he was like, okay, he’s like, okay, we can do that. Let’s move forward.

Josh 59:02
It was it was like, yeah, like, I think it’s kind of awesome. But he didn’t have been a pain, a pain in the ass for a little while after that. But we got the project worked out. But those Heidi’s is different personality types that might be different from you can be tricky, or even like for me when I talk to a C somebody who is very numbers oriented, who needs to see the proof. That’s where like results come into play, because they need to know if I invest $3,500, what am I going to get in return? And that’s where just for an example, maybe you can use this Jamila when you like, let’s say, you their average customer worth is like 500 bucks a year? Well, you could say for $3,500 What’s the math on that as long as you land six people, what’s the website could do in less than a month or so per potentially, you’ve made your investment up and then it’s all profit from there. So sometimes those number folks need to have that type of approach whereas you know, it might change for dominant people. versus interactive. So without getting too far along on this, that’s fascinating. I find that fascinating. So

Jamila 1:00:05
Yeah, yeah, I find it worked for me in a way that so I learned a lot from that, which is good.

Josh 1:00:10
Yeah. Yeah, that’s awesome. What would you say has been? I know you’ve probably learned so many lessons. But what’s like one of the biggest lessons that has come to mind for you, as you’ve reflected maybe on your journey so far, what’s maybe one of the top lessons you’ve learned?

Jamila 1:00:28
So many? I think looking after myself, actually, yeah, looking after myself and looking after my mindset. Definitely. Because they said, You know, I love working. I just love it. I love working. So I get that from my father. Yeah, he’s like, you know, he’s had so many different jobs, you know, Cole Mershon and you know, different businesses and, you know, push that work ethic, and I just love working, but then I get to focus sometimes, and I shut out the rest of the world with it, you know, but, so I think definitely looking after myself, and having fun, you know, as well, Josh, you know, because, you know, my son was saying, ma’am, you’re not fun, you don’t do it. All you do is work, you know.

Jamila 1:01:15
So now. Now, I’ve said, I’m not gonna, you know, why am I why am I working? I’m working to live right. So you know, I might as well have fun and enjoy my family as well. So, yeah, so now I try to have that more balance. And I think and spend more time with my family. Because he said to me, why, if you’re working so hard, you might you know, you could get ill, and then you’re not going to make it to that beach, you know, so, you know, so taking care of my health, eating well, I think, yeah, those to me now, is the first thing I should be doing, which is taking care of my mind set.

Josh 1:01:50
That’s awesome. It’s a balance, isn’t it? Like, is it the same way, I’m a blue collar guy at heart, I could put my work boots on and just work and work a long time if I wanted to. Yeah, it helps that we’re in an industry that is awesome. And it often is really fun. And it’s creative. And it’s, it’s rewarding to I’m not sure what areas you’ve seen the most rewarding, that are rewarding for you. But I know for me, like I often had to stop myself from working. And I definitely have to do that. Now. I have to be intentional about stopping because I could just keep on going and going,

I need to do that give myself that time to relax as well and enjoy something. – Jamila

Jamila 1:02:20
Yeah, four o’clock in the morning, you realize, you know, I have to stop doing that now and of balance, you know, because I wouldn’t do that if I was working a nine to five, right? When five o’clock comes home, I’ve stopped working, you know, so I need to do that give myself that time to relax as well and enjoy something, I do find it hard. Sometimes I’m like, Oh, I could be doing this. But

Josh 1:02:45
Yeah, when anyone leaves the nine to five and becomes an entrepreneur or freelancer, you really joined the 24/7. And it’s hard to turn that off often. But I found it’s kind of like a muscle now that I’ve been doing it for well over a decade, it’s for me, it’s kind of like a, like muscle memory, I just know when I need to switch it off. And there are certain seasons in life where there’s busy times, and there’s less busy times. And I think that’s fine too. Like, if there’s a bunch of projects that you need to get done. And there’s a you know, a bunch of paychecks that are on the way that you just want to get closer, I’m totally fine with working a little extra and doing that. But then seasons where you know, you can take a couple weeks and either have that time off or just have light days. That’s fine, too. There’s definitely a there’s a big mental shift when you leave a nine to five going freelance isn’t there? Because I should be working. It’s not it’s not Am I should be working. That’s how

Jamila 1:03:41
I found myself going back to nine to five again. I mean, it didn’t pay the bills before but no, I just love I just love freelance work. I love the freedom that comes with it, you know, I can be at home, I could take my laptop to another city and work you know, so I just love that freedom that it gives me.

Josh 1:04:01
What’s one of the most rewarding I kind of mentioned this a little bit ago. But I want to ask the direct question on this. What’s, what are some of the most rewarding aspects of web design so far that you’ve experienced?

Jamila 1:04:14
Maybe client feedback, you know, helping people the last client that I had, I was a life coach, and you know, just helping her to, you know, achieve her goals and stuff, you know, so that’s one of the reasons why I created that Facebook group as well so that I can still help to give that support. I just love helping and I like pulling all the ideas that she had, you know, pulling them all together for her and making them tangible you know, and she actually loving it as well. So I like that bringing it to life what they what they what they see, you know, so yeah, and helping them.

Josh 1:04:56
That’s awesome. I agree as a web designer, I I always got them Most joy out of seeing the client reaction when a site was live alien, even Trump’s some of the like results that we might get later on, because that was cool. But there was something about all the hard work that we both put into this as a client and service provider relationship over the past month or a couple months or whatever, to see it done and out there. And they’re like, gosh, I’m so pumped. I’m actually like, excited to send people to the website. That was always such a rewarding thing.

Josh 1:05:24
So that that is the beauty about this industry that we’re in a web design. Yes, it comes with its challenges, it struggles just like everything does. But the reward is awesome, because there’s nothing like seeing creativity out there. Right? Like it’s, it’s something for anyone who hasn’t been in a creative industry before. That’s something new, like I was kind of used to being a musician, and I dabble around with art and stuff. So I was kind of used to seeing creativity, realize, but in the form of web design, it’s it’s extra exciting, because you can literally plan it out, sketch it out on a piece of paper, whatever, build it with your client, and then release it out to the world. And then suddenly, it’s a baby, a baby, that you’re going to feed and watch it grow and do awesome things.

Josh 1:06:09
So that’s cool. Yeah, and like I said, one of the reasons I was really excited to have you on is is for me, when it comes to the rewarding aspect of what I do now, it’s this kind of thing. It’s to hear what your takeaways from what I put out there because like I said, I often, I saw a lot more reward, as far as like, projects being done and stuff as a web designer working with clients, because I saw the project done and I saw the reaction.

Josh 1:06:39
Now, I generally don’t see the reactions until I started my web design class or unless somebody just happens to submit a video testimonial or something. So you know, just a little plug in anyone is comfortable sending a video review for any my courses or anything, please do it means the world to me, and I watch them all I’ve really, really keeps me going. So, Jamila, thank you so much for your time today. This was really cool. I do want to have I’ve one final question for you. But I just wanted to say thank you for taking the time and for sharing your experience so far. Thank you for sharing your experience in the club and what my resources have helped you out with, again, this is it fires me up, it lights me up, pumps me up. Before we get that final question, where would you like people to go to find out more about you and check you out?

Jamila 1:07:22
Where they can go to my website, which is called the Virtual Click.com.

Josh 1:07:29
Awesome, yep. And more will have that linked. Man, so excited about what you have going on. And like I said, you’ve really just in a short amount of time, you’ve really built something that I think is you’re going to be able to build successfully for a very long time. So I’m super excited for you. Last question. Okay. Somebody who is this is, again, why I love interviewing folks who are early in the journey, because you’re not too far removed from those first feelings of just getting started. Somebody who’s interested in getting into web design. And they asked you like, how should I What should I do when I get started? What should I focus on? What would you encourage them to think about if they’re just getting started in web design?

Jamila 1:08:09
I think if I had to do it again, I would start I would join a course earlier, you know, and get tried to get a mentor because it’s not just about the design of the website is for actual, the business side of it as well. You know, so I would, I wouldn’t try to do on my own again, I would get a mentor if you can, you know if you’re able to. And yeah, and to join, join a group and not you know, to join like like, because it’s so much easier, you know, then do not on your own, get the help.

Josh 1:08:49
That’s well said, I would echo that as well. And I should let everyone know of anyone listening who doesn’t know. I have free a free guide that anyone can download to help get started in web design, you can just go to Josh hall.co/get started all one word. And it’s free. It’s just a little action plan depending on whether you want to learn web design or start your business. Anyone can go there and pick that up for free. It’s kind of like a free coaching session with me that’s about an hour long, but I’ll just guide you through the most important things to learn. So hopefully that helps. But Jamila, you have been awesome. Thank you so much for sharing your experience. And again, this is just the star I can’t wait to see what things look like for you in 2022. Maybe we’ll have to do a an episode later this year to to see where you’re at that point because as much progress as you may now gosh, I can’t imagine what things gonna look like in a year from now. So keep at it. I’ll see you in the club. Super excited for you. Thanks again for taking some time to chat.

Jamila 1:09:45
Thanks, Josh.


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