When you become a web designer, you likely think about how awesome and rewarding it’ll be to create amazing websites for clients, help them see their vision, grow their business and make an impact doing creative work you love.
But then you realize something…you need to SELL in order to make that happen?!?!
At least that was my realization early on. And just like many of you, I dreaded the sales process but LOVED working with clients and building sites.
Luckily, over the years I’ve learned that you don’t have to be a sleazy salesperson to build your client base and my guest in this podcast is a shining example of how to do sales right. And how to enjoy the whole process.
In this episode, web design agency owner and webpreneur Danny Ferry of Empowered Creative, shares his 5-step process for building confidence in sales with clients.
You’ll learn how Danny’s integral and helpful approach to sales has helped him build his web design business superfast over the last couple of years and the best part is, all the methods he shares are something you can apply TODAY so you can immediately feel more confident the next time you’re in a meeting with a potential client.
In this episode:
00:00 – Introduction
05:07 – Greeting to Danny
07:27 – Adding marketing consultation
11:14 – Career change pre-pandemic
17:13 – Success in door-to-door sales
19:08 – 1) Always ask for referrals
22:01 – 2) Have good conversation
30:46 – 3) Research before the meet
35:48 – A trusted asset
44:51 – 4) Have a plan
47:04 – Be present and available
52:32 – Be transparent with clients
54:02 – 5) The five P’s of business
55:57 – Recapping
1:00:43 – Key to growing confidence
Connect with Danny:
Featured links mentioned:
Episode #167 Full Transcription
Hey, friends, welcome into the podcast. This is episode 167. I want to dish out two words. And I want to see how these words make you feel when we put them together, confidence and sales. If those two words just do not compute with you, and if they don’t feel right together, and they just don’t jive together, you’re not alone, it is totally okay. And this is really, really common. I hear this all the time, I experienced it myself early on as a web designer. And that is just not feeling confident in sales. And luckily, we’re going to address that in this episode.
My guest in this episode today is Danny ferry. He’s one of my awesome web design students. He’s a web designer, and entrepreneur, and he has really come a long way in a fairly short amount of time in his web design business. In fact, he’s a member of my web design club. So I’ve been able to kind of keep tabs on him and check in with him to see what he’s learned and see how he’s grown his business so fast. He’s already building recurring revenue and scaling. And he’s learned a lot about sales and how to feel more confident in that in his business. So that’s what we dive into this episode. And it’s interesting, because Danny, as you’ll find out, has a very organic and integral approach to sales.
If you’ve listened to this podcast or gone through any of my resources, you know, I’m all about sales that are not sleazy, and we I hate doing cold calls and hard sales. And the good news is nowadays, uh, you can be authentic, you can be real, you can be helpful, and you can basically serve, oversell, and that is going to help you build confidence. In fact, we talked about that, and a lot more in this episode with Danny because he actually shares his personal kind of five step framework for sales and how to create more of a confident sales environment. That’s exactly what we cover in this episode.
I’m so excited for you, especially if you struggle with feeling confident in sales, particularly those of you who are maybe early in your business, I think this is really going to help you fast track feeling confident in sales and be more excited to help more clients. And once you get a lead. If you don’t feel nervous, you feel excited. That’s my goal for you. And I think you’re really going to feel that in this episode.
Now. Danny owns a an agency called empowered creative, you can find them and powered creative.co. And after this episode, if you’d like this framework, and you’d like a little more, Danny actually has this framework as a free resource for you. This is an e book he put together just for you listeners of this show, you can go and download that for free right now to empowered creative.co/josh Hall. We’ll have that linked in the show notes for this episode as well, Josh hall.co/ 167. But you can head there again, empowered creative.co/josh Hall. And you can pick up this free resources, which is a written out and visual ebook that will expand on this in more detail if you want a little more. So I’m so excited for you to feel confident with sales.
Last thing I wanted to mention is that again a little bit ago, I had said that Danny is a part of my web design club. I want to make sure you guys know a couple things about that. First off, when I mentioned my web design club, this is not some private group that is only available to certain people. It is available to you right now. It is my personal coaching community where I coach and I can coach you, in your web design business, no matter where you are. I’ve had a lot of people say recently that they thought it was just for really experienced web designers and agency owners. That’s not the case.
We do have some folks like that. And folks like Danny, who are just very entrepreneurial minded and web printers, but we also have people who are brand new in their business. And I’ll tell you one thing, if I could go back and do one thing, when I started my business to fast track my journey, it would have been to have a coach and somebody to give me some guidance, and to give me some mentorship every step along the way. That is what I have available for you right now you can actually now go to Josh hall.co/coaching. There’ll be some information on joining that. And I’ve got a special offer for you. If you go to that link for you. If you are interested in getting coaching from me personally, I’d love to meet you find out more about your business and help coach you along the way.
And you’ll get to meet Danny and other awesome amazing web designers and entrepreneurs a lot of whom who have been on the podcast and in fact last thing I’ll note before we dive in, Danny is actually going to be doing a monthly training in the club about this idea of confidence and sales visual, we’ll do a live q&a. So at the time of releasing this episode, if you joined the club, we’ll be doing it in the next week, I believe. So you can actually join for that presentation live. So make sure to go to Josh hall.co/coaching with more information to join my club so I can coach you and without further ado, here is Danny ferry let’s talk about sales confidence and how to create a confident sales advisor Let’s go
Danny, welcome to the podcast. Dude. Great to have you on. Thanks for taking some time to chat with us today, man.
Josh, thank you so much for having me on. I mean, I’m excited to talk about sales man.
Me too, man. You’ve been? You’ve been a student for a month for a while. Do you remember the first course you joined? And how I mean it because I feel like you’ve been around for a while, man.
Yeah, I think the first course I took was in. I I don’t know when you started. But the very first one that you put out, I’m pretty sure I bought
I thought so. I thought that was a maintenance plan course the first version? Yeah, the maintenance plan course I thought you were potentially one of the first. So you’re definitely like the first wave of students. I believe I started in 2018 at the end of 2018. So yeah, I think it was pretty early on or maybe 19, maybe early 90s. I
I think it was 2019. And I think it was actually the website. Business course was my first one.
Okay, okay. That’s right. Okay. Yeah. So yeah, the business course was 2019. And then Yep. And then yeah, got this more. So yeah, that’s awesome. Dude, it’s been really, really cool. To see your journey and to oversee you and kind of see your business grow and expand and your scaling. Now you’ve got a lot of experience with doing some sub contracting and one area, you have a lot of, I think lessons learned and life experience in his confidence in sales, and marketing. And that’s what I’m really excited to talk about. Because before we went live, you were saying that you’re a part of my web design club. And a lot of the the challenges you see in there is just the confidence and putting yourself out there and sale. So I’m super excited to chat with you about this man.
Before we dive in, do you want to just let everybody know first off where you’re based out of and when you go to a networking group? And they asked you all right, big D. D money. Daniel, Danny, we were talking about your name before we go live? What do you what do you tell them? They do? What do you want me to do?
Yeah, so I’m based out of York, Pennsylvania. We are currently very cold, and just had our first nice little snow of the season. So kids are happy, and parents are not. But anyway, but I actually am a part of a networking group. And we go in, we do something called a 32nd. Commercial. So this is kind of perfect. All that work I’ve been doing the last year is gonna get put to good use. So
Right. Yeah, on the podcast, maybe?
Exactly. So I would definitely make sure I show them this. But yeah, basically, what I say that I do is I help people grow their businesses, and I do it through conversion based web design, white hat, SEO, lead generation, and then something that I’m implementing in 2022 is actually a marketing consultation, or just coming in and talking with people and helping them figure out the pathway to begin to help them to convert visitors into customers.
So that would be more strategy, right? Marketing Strategy type consultation?
Yeah, absolutely. It’s kind of for my experience. So my client, like going into those discovery meetings with clients. And so many of them are just really unsure about where they’re at, you know, you’re trying to find some key performance indicators with them or something like that. And they really don’t know. So it’s almost like saying, Okay, let’s get something tangible on paper here. So we can figure out where you’re trying to get to.
So you’re, I mean, what you’ve really elevated to is much more than just a website that converts Well, it is strategy and marketing behind that to make sure it is the tool to like you said Help help grow the business, right. I mean, you’re really absolutely turning into more web printer. aspects of the business.
Yeah, that’s exciting, man. That’s really, really cool. I think that I mean, all web designers are doing strategy, whether we know it or not, we’re all basically generally doing it for free, and might be a part of the website build. But if you actually give it a name, I think what’s really cool about that is it makes it intentional. It also makes you it makes it more valuable, because now you can offer a consultation, whether you call it marketing, strategy, audit, or marketing strategy, plan, consultation, I guess there’s a lot of different names that could come into play. Either way, that’s a really valuable service that I think it’s awesome to see you implementing and I think a lot of other web designers to do as well.
Yeah, I actually got the idea. I forget who the guest was, they were talking about the day rate thing. And so yeah, I was actually outside mowing my grass, listen to the podcast. And I was thinking to myself about how many times I’ll go in and spend a couple hours with a client. And then, you know, I’ve had this experience a couple times where I walk out of there, and I’ve given them this really good plan for what I would do and then they’re like, oh, you know what, we’re gonna wait, we’re gonna wait six months, we’re gonna work, you know, or maybe they still haven’t gotten back to me. I’m like, that was a lot of valuable information. I just gave them for free.
Yes, yes. Oh, my gosh, man, I I’m sure everyone just heard that and was like, yep, me too, because we have all been through that I remember feeling the same way, I’d come out of a discovery call or particularly if it wasn’t an actual paying client. It was just a potential client. And I would leave thinking like, oh, man, I just gave them like a five year online presence marketing plan.
I mean, you can use those ideas and structures for other paying clients. But at the end of the day, it’s like, Man, I just want a bummer that we didn’t do anything with that. So yeah, if you can charge for it, put a name to it. It really, it makes it awesome. It’s so valuable for clients, particularly if it’s in with, with your services. If it’s in with your however you do it, whether if you have like a year contract, or if it’s part of a fixed build in the marketing plan, as a part of it for that space. It’s really a great way to go. And yeah, you mentioned Sarah Massey, with the founder of day rates. That’s episode 122. If anyone wants to go back and listen to that, so let’s hear from you, Danny here.
Just tell us about like, what was where was your business at? Before you really started implementing a lot of the marketing strategies? You have a typical web designer? I don’t know too much about your backstory, did you have a typical web designer path about like, you know, the type of services you offered, and then just, take us just from, you know, from that, and then then we’ll get into these marketing strategies that you’ve learned.
Yeah. So when I first started doing web design, you know, freelance style is what I’ll call it, it was probably 2018 I was looking for a way to make some extra money. I think this is probably a lot of people story, but was looking for a way to make some extra money I had just finished going through college, my wife and I have three beautiful kids, you know, we’re trying to figure out how to pay off debt, stuff like that. Anyway. When we were, as I was kind of going through that, my, my, like, full time, day job, was working at a hospital, and was a nuclear medicine technologist, which is like a really fancy name. And it sounds cool. But it’s basically in radiology department. And what I had, what I had found out is, that wasn’t for me. I didn’t really enjoy it.
And so I began to kind of strategize talk with my wife, how can I take this thing I really liked doing web design and make it what I do all the time. And so in 2019, I officially you know, became empowered creative. A friend of mine really helped to encourage me to go down this route, I picked up my first client, my first client, oddly enough, was, you know, a, a learning management system. So it wasn’t like I just came in with like a five page build, I came in and was like,
Right at the deep end headfirst. Even Yeah
Right into LearnDash. And like, you know, trying to figure out how everything talks to each other. And it was a lot. And so 2019, I really started building up a clientele. And that’s when I started doing a lot of the website design, maintenance, website, design, maintenance stuff. And then at the end of 2019, when I kind of align this with, with the pandemic a little bit, because I had conversations with my wife, like, I think now’s the time when I need to leave the hospital, it was getting kind of crazy in that environment. And I said, I think this is the time and then me and her were like fully on board, where people have faith. You know, we’ve, we were praying about it and trying to feel like confirmation from the Lord. And we had other people over here, like, you’re crazy, you’re getting ready to go, you’re in the middle of a pandemic, why are you quitting this job that’s super secure, and safe, you know what I mean?
But we just really felt, you know, confirmation in our faith. And so we, we made the jump, and that was in 2020, spent all 2020 Just, you know, putting everything I have all my effort all my time, all my energy into building empowered, and probably in the middle of 2020s, when I started getting more into, like the well, the beginning of 2020, I got into like my first networking group, that was a big step for me. And then I began to really implement, like, had the time to really begin to do like SEO strategy to get myself like, ranked on some of like, the more local search engines, Google My Business was a huge part of that as well. Getting my presence on there. So that’s kind of how I got from like, Freelancer into like this being a more full time gig for me.
That’s awesome. And then so what did you at what month did you actually technically go full time and quit your job?
So it was in? It would have been October of 2019.
Okay, right, right before everything went wild with COVID.
Yeah, yeah, like we were. We were in the hospitals. I remember where like the face shields and everything because people just didn’t really understand what was happening. I remember going up and getting fit for an n 95. Like that was you know, it was very early on in the pandemic.
Yeah, I was gonna say because I mean, most of the world a hit, you know, early 2020. But I do rely remember Darrell Wilson, who is a WordPress, a huge WordPress channel, I had him on at the end of 2019. And he was saying it was really big. I think it was in Thailand or something. And at the state in the States, we hadn’t really heard too much about it. So he was kind of like talking about it. And I had thought like, Okay, well, I feel bad for him. So they’re dealing with and then Then 2020 came so
It might have actually been in October of 2020 is when I quit at at the at the medical facility. Now that I’m thinking about it. I think I’m actually a year off.
That was when that’s, that’s when web design started for you. And then yeah, after the pandemic was in full, full fledge and everything, that’s when you actually correct me the job.
It was October 2020 2021, was a full year of this just being what I what I did full time. And now like this, I’m going into my second full year, which,
Okay, that makes sense. That yeah, we were attending the club a while back. And I think you had mentioned that it was the in the 2020. It was official for you. So yes, yeah, that that definitely makes sense with your timeline. And here’s a really interesting thing is that when it comes to sales, confidence and everything else, I mean, you didn’t wait too long. And before you went for it, let’s just kick this off with this idea of confidence and sales. Why did you feel confident from the get go? I mean, just because, yeah, well, I guess where did the confidence come from early on? That’s the That’s the question. Yeah.
Great question. So when I was probably 20, 21 years old, I got a job in upstate New York, I lived in upstate New York, I got a job at a supplemental health in health and Accident Insurance Agency called combined life insurance. And, you know, I was when I came right out of high school, I really didn’t know what I wanted to do. So I kind of did some factory jobs for different stuff. And I really relate to your story, Josh, talking about working in like the, the cabinet factory, like, you know, I just kind of needed to find my way in life. It wasn’t like, you know, when I was growing up, I just instantly knew I was going to be a lawyer or something. So
Back when Sunday nights used to suck, right? It was like, oh, yeah, and start.
Absolutely. So anyway, I don’t know, too many people know about upstate New York, maybe there’s some people in the club. But there’s always this kind of joke. And this was the joke back then was like, if you can make a sale in upstate New York, you can make a sale anywhere. Because there’s not a lot of jobs up in that area, there’s a little bit of a depressed area. And so I don’t know why. But I guess I went for it. And I would go door to door, literally door to door with this big binder, I mean, massive binder with the sales notes in it. Like I just read from the notes. And I went door to door. And if someone let me in, you know, I would. My goal was to get 20 presentations a day like this was really old school sales tactics. Excuse me.
There are really critical things that I learned there and things that I observed through the sales processes that helped me when it comes to web design. – Danny
But by the end of that first year, I had done well enough where I became a sales manager. And through that, I learned a lot about sales tactics, and some different things. And I’ve carried that with me, even till now. So every time I go into a sales situation, even though I don’t have this big, massive, bulky binder, there are really critical things that I learned there and things that I observed through the sales processes that helped me when it comes to web design.
Can you give us a few of those because door door to door sales? I don’t know if there’s any harder sales, the door to door sales because you’re literally knocking on somebody’s personal door. They don’t probably they’re not like in the right mindset to hear from you. Actually, that’s so funny. What a timely thing. We just had somebody last night knock on our door at dinnertime. And I looked on our little, our little camera, the doorbell camera, and I was like, it’s a couple of door to door guys. It’s probably like, I don’t know, at&t or spectrum or something. I was like, I just were eating. I was like, I’m not even gonna answer door. I just don’t have time. So for you to do that. That’s awesome. Yeah. What are some of the top tips that can translate to web design?
1) Always Ask For Referrals
Yeah, absolutely. So I actually wrote down like five things to remember in the sales process. And the first thing that I would I want to talk about is kind of like, the best door for me to knock on was always when I got a referral. So if a neighbor next door said, Hey, you should go over here and talk to them about this. When I went to the door, it wasn’t like, Hi, my name is Danny from you know, by life or something like that, where I’m just a cold door, I can say Hi, my name is Danny and Tom Jones across the street thought that I should come over and talk to you. That instantly takes what is a normally a very cold door and said and hopefully your neighbors have good relationships, but it would be like oh, oh, yeah.
So um, you know, there were times where like, I didn’t like that, you know, like they didn’t like their neighbors. Burnett was like, I’m really sorry about that. But sometimes you can even use that to your advantage because then they pitied you. And they were like, you know, this poor guy is trying to sell door to door. And, you know, I just yelled at him, you know, and then they would let me come in and anyway, but having had like name dropping, and having a, a person or connection that allows something to become a warm door for you, instead of it just being completely cold is always helpful. And so for me, specifically, and I’ll translate just to my web design business, when I’m getting referrals, a lot of times what I get from my clients, I’ll say something to them, like, who do you know, that could benefit from what I’ve provided to you?
Hmm, so what’s going on or in during a project intensely asked for a referral.
Right? So it’s kind of like that, at the very end that like that very last conversation I had with them before we kind of send them off and launch a site. And this is what’s really important about actually adding value to your customers, if they feel like you’ve provided them with value, and you’re an asset to them. That question isn’t really that hard to answer for them, because they’ve experience what you’ve added and the value of added to them. And they’ll easily be able to like, so this is what he did for me. And if it’s a good experience, they’ll want you to do that for somebody they like
100% before. Yeah, before you move on real quick, Danny, I want to just accent this, because this is crucial. This is something I don’t have many regrets in my web design business. But this is one and that is not just intentionally asking my clients to refer me to their networks, because a lot of clients do a great job for them, and love working with you. And they would 100% refer you to their friends, but they just might not think about it. Or they may not know that you want to referral. So what you would think that’d be natural, but there are some designers who are booked up and can’t take any more design work that month. So ask for referrals. What a great point. Please continue. This is awesome.
2) Have Good Conversation
Yeah. So that’s a big thing. Okay. So if you get a referral, and then maybe let’s start from the the point of you get the referral. What do you do next with that referral. So the first thing that I would do, obviously, you’re going to have some type of conversation with them. So it’s either going to be via phone, which I would recommend making a phone call, there’s something about making a phone call that has, in my experience here in the, you know, northeast of the country, people appreciate that in the in the ideal customer for me. When I think about them, you know, and I look at like their age bracket, they still appreciate a phone call.
Now, is this different than a scheduled Zoom meeting? Do you find that a casual phone calls different than a zoom console or audit?
I think that that kind of replaces like the phone call. So if you have a Zoom meeting, that’s even better, honestly, in my opinion, like you get, they can see your face and you’re talking to them, then you can certainly share screen share, you can really do like a presentation, I think the thing that I would avoid is texting, or like, you know, like let email kind of be your very last resort. Because what I would say but make some type of conscientious effort, it’s the effort that’s going to matter to them. So if they if you make a phone call, it’s just always gonna go over better.
But the first thing you need to do is you need to ask like the right questions. And this is basically what I’m saying, like screen them. So for me, I’ve worked out what an ideal client is for me. And I kind of said about like, most of my clients are over the age of 50. At this point, I realized that they’re not really huge fans of technology, but they realize the necessity to have it. And they want to they want to grow their business online, they don’t have the time most of the time to do it, or they don’t know how to do it.
So when I screen the, my, my clients, I’m looking for certain things when I talk to them that they will say or what I call like, it’s almost like SEO, but it’s like listen for keywords or triggers in the conversation. They’ll let you know whether or not they’re your ideal customer or not.
So it’s kind of two and one one know what questions to ask. And secondly, know what your keywords or your triggers are. To be able to know, okay, this is my ideal client or not, sometimes you’re going to hear things about all we want you to manage, like I just had a phone call and we want you to manage our website, because that’s what they’ll say. You got to be able to ask the right questions to really understand what that means. Because yeah, for some people, that means they, they they want you to update their website like 13 times a day. You know what I mean? It’s like super annoying. I don’t have to do that. But for other people what it means is, we have a website we need hosting. We need we need someone to give us like security district Great spot for like the maintenance plan to come in. And in that case, that’s an ideal customer for almost all of us who are part of the, you know, the website maintenance and security plan. So yeah, you have to know what questions to ask depending on what the person’s need is or what they’re talking about.
This is a really good point, because I feel like to kind of have the idea of this topic of sales and confidence with sales as the foundation of all this, that can come as you get to know your clients better, because I imagine Am I right in saying that, you know, the questions now, like you’ve learned what questions to ask and what those triggers and keywords are, I’m sure in the beginning, there was a bit of a fumbling around figuring out, but I imagine you’re you can probably within about three minutes, figure out if this is a good client, right?
Yeah, exactly. And, yeah, absolutely. I can definitely no, I know what questions asked. I’m pretty, I’m pretty upfront. And I found that people appreciate that. I’m, with like, asking a lot of questions. I feel like in these initial initial conversations, and a lot, a lot of people call them discovery meetings, or whatever, you know. But within that realm, my job is, and this is kind of part of the second thing, but is to be that active listener, I’m supposed to ask a lot of questions and and just listen a lot. And that’s a skill that I think just people in general struggle with. They you know, when we get into these sales situations, we are so amped up, because there is a potential sale right there in front of us, somebody called us, they, you know, somebody referred us, we’re just amped, like, we’re getting ready to have success, and we can almost taste it. And we just, like, just start talking a million miles an hour.
So here we go. Gosh, Danny, that’s a great point. And I think everyone struggles with that if you are running a web design business, because you want to provide your solution right away, you want to say, here’s how I can help you. But you just said if you can listen, way longer than you talk in a sales meeting, and that takes the stress and pressure off of selling. Because you don’t have to feel like you’re a sleazy salesman. If you just listen and ask questions, then when you come in with your solution in your service, that’s it. And that can be a very small piece of the conversation. And let me just give this little analogy for everybody.
Because there are what I what I’ve learned over time. And I heard this articulated by Donald Miller, the author of Story Brand recently in a podcast, I thought it was very well said I want to regurgitate it here for everybody. A perfect in a well done sales meeting is really three parts. articulating the problem, which is listening and asking questions, explaining the solution, and then explaining the results. Its problem, solution, result. Now on a typical discovery call, your solution might be web design, SEO services, but then you got to follow up with maybe you’ll talk about this, but you got to follow up with okay, what’s in it for them once they purchase from you? And that really in the most simplistic form? That is a good sales meeting, Problem Solution resolved at you? Could you back me up and saying that?
Oh, yeah, I would definitely back you up. I would actually say that in most cases, just to take this like one step farther, if you listen well enough. So when they call you or you get that first initial contact, phone, zoom, whatever like that. A lot of times, I’ll give you one problem. If you’re good enough at sitting there listening, they will give you problem 2, 3, 4 Onward. Yeah. And they will actually give you bullets for the gun to just know exactly how you can Yeah.
And look at when, when it comes to results, in this case, conference with sales, you don’t need to think about results, the result is the solution to the problem. So they all have their problems are the results, you just need to in their problems. And even if you could just in one or two and phase one, then you can tackle the rest of them. I love I love that. It’s great.
Absolutely. Let me move on to the next thing because this maybe should be at the top. But the way when I was thinking about putting this in a list, I was thinking have that initial call. And in that initial phone call, be an active listener. So then this is how it’s going for me a lot of times I kind of make contact and then I always I personally always try to meet with people face to face. Yeah, but that’s my own thing. I know not everybody’s comfortable with that right now because of the pandemic. But I’ve I’ve tried to do that myself, just because I feel like if I can get in the room and sit across from them. I can that sales mine.
Yeah, face to face is always going to trump any sort of conversion, rather than a phone call or any other communication. I mean, I think Zoom is our best option for screen to screen face to face. And like we just talked about you have options, but I totally agree well, and also I mean, we’re both in the Midwest, you’re in Pennsylvania, I’m in Columbus, Ohio. We’re probably only Let’s see your northeast, right. So we’re probably like what, five, six hours apart? Maybe seven? Something like that.
Yeah, we’re not far I got family in Dayton.
Yeah. So it’s my past right past. So yeah. How far is it there to Dayton from York? I think it was like a nine hour drive. Okay, so we’re probably like eight, we’re probably from Yeah. But yeah, I say that to say we are in the Midwest, we are in an area of the states, at least where people value people who they know, like and trust and can meet with a lot of clients who will work with anyone remotely. But there is definitely this goes back to like figuring out your ideal clients, you have to know what they appreciate. And for you, for your clients, your ideal clients, it sounds like it’s a trusted person. So yeah, if you could do that face to face, absolutely, the ROI is always going to be there.
3) Research Before the Meet
Yeah. So when I get before I get to that face to face meeting, the third thing that I would recommend is research their business, research their competition, and research them. That and then also see if you have any connection to them their business, on social platforms. I’ll explain a little bit about why that’s important. But first of all, if you go into the meeting, fully prepared about knowing what they do, what they’re trying, like, who their ideal customers themselves, like, what they’re, who they’re trying to sell to what services they offer, if you know what, like who their competition is, and how you can differentiate them, or have an idea of how you can do it, you don’t have everything perfectly figured out. But know their competition.
And then if you can research them on Facebook and one see, some companies I’ve worked with don’t even have a social presence. And again, that tells you something about them. All this is just like an information gathering process where when you walk in for that face to face meeting, you are so well equipped and prepared that like they can there there will be things that they tell you. And it’s almost like fitting a puzzle together in a way you can put the puzzle together. And it gives you this awesome picture of their business who they are. And rather than you walking in there feeling kind of, I remember having this like in the first couple times I’ve ever did sales, it was like, Man, I really hope I get to sale, you go in there thinking to yourself, already know what you’re gonna say. And like most cases, and I’m just sitting here waiting to give you the solution to that problem.
That’s good. Yeah, no, that that is, and it doesn’t take that much research to just check somebody out and see what their interests are to see if there is anything like when I met with clients who happen to like the blue jackets, boom, there was a nice conversation starter, there was somebody who, you know, was a Star Wars fan. I was like, Oh, I’m getting that client. Yeah. Oh, heck yeah. You know, like, there are those similarities. And even if there’s something that you’re not interested in, that’s fine, too. But at least you’re somewhat prepared on where their interests are as a person, which is relatable in sales. And look, that’s a big aspect, we have to remember, when you get a client, what is a client, it is a person. So how can you relate and connect?
I think this is a really important point to remember when it comes to sales, it’s just people. – Josh
I think this is a really important point to remember when it comes to sales, it’s just people. All business and all sales, it’s people. So I love that, Danny, I think it’s really important. A couple questions before we move on? Sure. I want to hear about because I guess one question I had was how you figured out your ideal clients, which it sounds like just through trial and error through networking, and probably your area, since you’re big on face to face networking, I imagine. Am I correct in saying you just kind of you kind of realize that your ideal clients were maybe local or Midwestern small businesses, and they just happen to be, are they blue collar? Or they a lot of blue collar folks or whatever?
Yeah, so a lot of them are blue collar folks.
Which are awesome clients Some of the awesome clients.
Yeah, I mean, I. So basically, what I, what I did was, as I was first getting my first clients, I really love that to tell me the story about my ideal client. So and I can’t forget, you know, obviously, the internet is a powerful tool. But as I was trying to figure out how to figure out my ideal client, I just went to some different resources. And one of the suggestions was, let your current clients tell you who your ideal client is, and I just went through that and said, you know, most of them are in their, in their 50s, like, mid 40s 50s and older. You know, like demographically, a lot of them are small business owners male. And then like some attributes of them is they have very successful businesses that they have to work in full time as well as manage, which is which makes it perfect for us as web designers because they don’t have time to do this stuff that we can provide for them and give them the solutions.
And did you know you were relatable to them just because of your past and you know, I can tell you can grow a hell of a beard is that kind of just how you felt a little more relatable, you know, to some of those blue collar guy. Yeah, so if I’m only half joking, I’m only half joking because I work with some guys. And they were like, well, you’re not growing a beard this winter. I was like, nope.
Yeah, beard length is definitely something I take into account before a sales call. So there you go, I know that I don’t if I need to grow it out, I’ll make sure it’s like two weeks out. So that that was a that gets there. Um, I just I think I can relate to it. Because yeah, I, I worked blue collar jobs.
And I understand. I understand that they have a a deep interest in like digital marketing, online marketing, but they also have a trust problem. And they need to be able, and I’m the I’m the intermediary like in between that I’m the person standing between them and having online success. And if I can be like a trusted asset to their company, then I can help them go from being very profitable with what you’re doing to growing like their own line portion of their business.
I love that there’s a really valuable lesson in that with getting ideal clients. And that is, if you work with somebody who is somewhat like you, they don’t have to look exactly like you or believe the same things. But if you are like minded in some area, or you share some similar, you know, past experiences and life experiences that can be really valuable, because you’re going to have that underlying trust and relatability. I think relatability is a big one. I mean, I worked with all sorts of clients, some I understood their business immediately and felt like I understood them. And some I, I really had to work. At.
I remember I did a photography studio site, it was all gal photography studio, my vision could not have been further from what there is, are just because I’m obviously a super masculine tough guy. So my website was a little more harsh looking. But in all seriousness, it was much more like masculine. And they were like this is you know, we just wanted something more feminine, but they gave me an example. And then I was able to do it. So I was able to see their vision, which may go back to like the asking questions like what’s your? What’s your style? What’s your vision?
Yeah, in today’s world that we live in, with the amount of information that people are willing to share online, you can find a lot of connection points with potential clients before you ever walk in. And I think that’s just a huge thing. So my thought is, like, I want to make as many connection points where I seem, where they can see me see me as a person as well. And not just, you know, like, when I come in, and I’m in the salesman, kind of mode of the web design process. They view me as a salesman, they know that my job is to convert them into a customer,
But when I can make those connections with them, whether that’s like, Oh, hey, I like if I, if I get a referral, that’s the first connection point. So right away, they liked me a little bit more because I did business with their friend. But then sure, like I’m an I’m an Eagles fan, right. So there, I see an Eagles flag in their office or a helmet. But Go Go birds, right, we made the playoffs, like just things like that, that will make those connection points. And they stopped looking at you like this weird salesman coming in, or you know, any other stigma that people have about web designers. And they begin to think about me as just a likable person and somebody that they enjoy being around. So that really takes you from like point A to point B and allows you to have more confidence in the sales environment.
Yeah, that’s great. That’s a big key The other follow up question I wanted to make sure we didn’t gloss over was, how do you ask these questions like, how do you get to these problems? This is this is a big one. Because I was notorious for saying what’s your number one challenge, and clients might give me a halfway decent answer. But I found that if we just like if I just let them talk about their business, I ended up getting way better answers. So have you What do you have any tips and tricks on how to get those problems and challenges out of the client when you’re just listening and asking questions?
Yeah, I normally go in. I wish I don’t have a mock right now. But I wish I have a list of questions that I like to ask. And I think the number one question that all of us web designers should ask, and I think this is just a thing that, like a mindset we should have into something if you ever if you go to my website, you’ll see that I kind of push this a little bit is that it’s not about the pretty website. It’s about the website that converts. And so many people when I go in, I say what are the question I ask is What do you want your website to do for you? And when they start answering that question a lot of times, and this is actually my least favorite part of the meeting, but it’s the most important part. They’ll start telling me everything that was wrong with their last web designer,
Or what was wrong with the website, which then allows me to like see my website. So most of the time if they’re calling me they’re unhappy. And that just they’ll open themselves up to having the conversation about what it’s not currently doing.
Okay. So instead of saying, What’s wrong with your site, what do you want us to do for you? And then yeah, that opens up the floodgates?
Yeah. So typically, if I just say, like, what do you want your site? Like? How do you want your site to work for you? What do you want your site to do? Or what do you want your visitors to be able to do while they’re on their site? Or even talk to them? Again, this is all conversion based web design focus. What? Yeah, what do you want your visitors to do when they’re on your site, like those questions, and that opens up the door to Pandora’s box of what it’s not doing.
I was just gonna say that this is huge for sales and confidence when you’re selling, or, excuse me confidence in sales when you’re selling. Because if you ask a client, what their problems are with their website, and they tell you, you might be like thinking about, Okay, what did it what do they actually want to do with their site, then you have to kind of come up with some ideas and give them some results you think they might want? If they say, I want more consultation, submissions, well, then suddenly, now we can just figure out the solutions. Okay, so the end goal is get a console a free consultation.
So is that a call to action on your site? Is it very clear what is provided in this, then suddenly, you as the web designer, there’s your there’s your end goal, so all you have to do is formulate the solutions, even an during a sales meeting, if it’s just some initial ideas, and then, you know, take some time to make those concrete that Oh, that’s great, Danny, that it like that his gold. That really is it takes the stress and pressure off of sales, because you’re just sharing ideas. And even if you’re new in the game, your ideas are probably way better than your clients ideas, even if you’re three months into your web design journey. So you’re already ahead, you know, you’re already you already have a better savvier mind that they do offer their website. So that’s great.
It also helps you to not come off in a bad light. So I would definitely stress Don’t go in there bashing another web designer, like I don’t, I don’t think people would do it. But sometimes what can they do? Oh, yeah, like they’ll come in. And if they tell you something that they’re not happy with, really do your very best, because this is going to make you this is going to present yourself in a very honorable and respectful way. Like if you just talk about their sight and what you can do for them without ever mentioning what somebody else did. I just think that’s really important. And it’s something like within our design community. I’ve, I’ve I know what if I’ve had somebody who has gone after a site that I built for somebody and saw kind of some of the very, like, dirty ways that people talk about, and I would just encourage you to be the honorable, respectful person in that situation.
I love that you said that, Danny, that is so important. And it really does. It speaks volumes of you and will like you said it will build that trust and credibility with your client. Because that is very common. And I understand the the drawl to do that. And it’s probably a shady sales technique, because you could pick apart a site, but we can pick apart our own sites. And we can pick apart our work once the site is done often. So it’s a great point. And I was thinking back to a lot of sales meetings I had where I had a similar avenue to be able to just rip into a previous agency or designer and I definitely tried my best not to do that.
There were some times where I’d be like, I’m curious as to why they did this. Or like I remember one client I met with their logo was on the right side of the screen looks really odd. And I was like, That just seems a lot to me. I would make maybe recommend moving it to left since our eyes read left to right. And even just saying that I wasn’t like what a terrible designer who did this. It was just like, what I might do. There is there’s a lot of tactful ways to go about that. Without that. I’m really glad you said that man that that is a that is a really really important I think just a heartfelt move. Maybe that’s not the right words, but loyal. Yeah, just it’s good character. It’s a character.
To do that. Not bash your other designers because we’re all in this together. And we’re way it’s coopetition whether you realize it or not. And and if you’re in a local networking group heads up, you word gets around, just like things did in high school. It’ll get around that Danny is bashing other designers and no one’s gonna want to work with Danny. So but luckily they did. I digress. Yeah, no,
You’re right on all points, man. It it’s a character thing. Like, even in that moment, if they’re expressing frustration, which that’s their right. Let them express it. But when they leave that meeting later on, they’re not going to be thinking like, you know, if you went in there and you bash a website and be like, Wait, like, is this guy talking about my business that way? You know, like, boy,
Yeah, yeah. If I leave one day, how are they going to talk about Yeah, a point. So it’s
4) Present a Plan to Solve the Problem
Just it’s just be like, be a good yeah. Be good character. That’s great. So yeah, so the next thing I want to talk about Sounds like my fourth point here. And this is again before you actually get into the meeting. But after you do all the research after you talk to them on the phone after you kind of hear their initial need, and then maybe you go and do the research or their business, you look at their current site. Maybe you do like an SEO report, I don’t know, it depends on what they need. But go into the meeting with a list of ways that you can benefit them. So this is before they this is before you ever sit down and you listen to everything, come up with maybe three to five ways that you think that you can benefit them. And
More like generalize that would work with ever Yes, I think yeah,
Yeah. So like, show them how you, this is the thing that I, I want to like, hit on over and over, show them that you are going to be an asset for them. So they’re looking for like tools in their tool belt, be the hammer, like be the be the asset that they need to help their business grow, especially on in the online world. I just found like digital marketing, website design, there is so much content out there. Right? So like, if you go, if you go to like, look for a tutorial for something, sometimes you can find, like so much information out there. And it’s really overloaded.
In some of these, if they’re more general, would they be just like broad almost like services? Would it be like personalized service? You know, or maybe attentive service, which separates us from other web designers without bashing me? Of course, would it be like conversion base, design techniques and strategy, stuff like that that can fit in any project?
Yeah, I think the best way I can do is like one example. I got a phone call from somebody, he found me on Google. And they were just saying they mentioned their previous website designer or their webmaster. I don’t I don’t know what what we call a website designers. He says I don’t know. But
Yeah, it is a bla everything on there. Yeah, I kind of like webmaster. I think that’s coming back around now.
I do too. I think I think it has a much greater meeting today than it did back in like the early 2000s. Yeah. Anyway, they told me about their experience with them, and basically said, we’ve been trying to reach them for two months, couldn’t get in touch with them. And again, this goes back to listening. So I heard that. And one of the benefits of working with me, and I tell this all my clients. And one of the things that a majority of my customers have told me, either they’ve left other clients or they were worried about having somebody do their website is like, they always disappear. I can’t ever find them when I need them.
And so almost like one of the things that I always put on here, you’ll see on my website, is that I believe in personalized, like accessible web design. Now, that doesn’t mean and I know Josh I know you’re a big fan of like boundaries, and making sure that you can still have your boundaries, and yes, see accessible. So that’s a big thing. For me, my family time is my family time. But you need to be accessible during regular business hours to be attentive to their needs. And if they call them make some effort to get back in contact with them.
A lot of times this the stigma around web designers, and I hate to say this, but it’s like, we sit in a dark dingy room, and we just code all day. That’s what a lot of people have kind of verbalize to me when I’m in a meeting. And they’re like, they don’t really like people. They just want to hang out with their computers kind of, you know, kind of the verbage that they give me. Whereas I try to break through that stigma and say, like, if you need me, I’m here, this is a benefit that I can give to you is I’m when you call me, when you email me, I’m going to get back within 24 to 48 hours. And I’m going to make sure that your need is taken care of. And then of course, you got to follow up on that. But again, it goes back to listening being an active listener, they’ll normally give you one or two ways that you can benefit them up front and kind of give you the bullet you need to go into success.
In a sales meeting. I’ve always called that just like matching and mirroring or just basically listen for those keywords. When you’re listening. Keep track of those. And at the end of the conversation, just say that keyword like I’m a web designer who I pride myself on not disappearing, like I’m here for, for all my clients for the long haul. And you’re totally right, Danny, you can 100% set boundaries and not be that designer that disappears. That’s the point of the boundaries is that so you can keep that nice personalized service within the context of hours and boundaries, which is good for all parties.
And yeah, I will say too, for anybody, particularly who’s new into web design, and you’re like, Okay, how far do I how close to I get with clients? Like, how can I get projects done and be creative and still maintain keeping up with clients. It doesn’t take much to retain that relationship with clients. If you just re email back within 48 hours and within a couple of days and say I got it, I’m working on it. That’s all you need to do. It’ll take two seconds literally to send that out during an email segment and that’s all you Your client needs.
But if you just don’t say anything, you just disappear. That’s what is leading to this. So yeah, just hopefully want to give that extra edge of confidence for folks, because it’s a great point, man. And like I said, your website is a good example for anyone who checks out empowered, creative. Co. There’s a lot of verbiage about personalized service, empowering, I guess, awesome. So that’s very well done, it’s very clear that you’re not going to build your site and disappear. Hope it goes well. Right.
Yeah, exactly. And honestly, like, that’s part of my ideal customer. Thank you to whoever previously you gave your business to who doesn’t? Yeah, so I’m gonna come right in there. And they’re gonna be like, me, I’m gonna look amazing. To the end. That’s my goal.
Yes. And here’s another big confidence booster, when you’re early on in the journey for anyone who’s early on. If you care, and you have better customer service, you don’t have to be a great designer. And that’s,
That’s awesome. Yes, that’s true.
Isn’t it true. Like, I think about the first couple years of my journey, I was not great. Like I was just learning web design. But what I did have, on top of all the other designers that a lot of my clients were working with is I actually cared and I was really good at emailing back. And I’m really good at communication. That was it. And that will literally give you a buffer to get better with your craft. And then that also makes clients more relatable and acceptable for you. And just letting them know, like, Yeah, I’m actually learning more about this.
So if they’re not getting the best conversions on their site, but it looks pretty nice, and you’re just so nice to communicate with, you’re doing such a good job. More often than not, they’ll stick with you and just let them know, like, I’m actually learning a lot about convert, I just joined one of Josh’s courses. So now I’m learning SEO, you know, like, it’s a perfect example that you don’t need to be the best web designer. As long as you communicate well, and you care about your work, that is really all you need to get started with.
That’s 100% True. If there was like one thing that I would tell everybody, it’s what you just said, Be present. People do business with people they know like and trust. I mean, that’s just 100% True. If they know you, if they find those connection, if you find those connection points, if you go in there and they like you, you’re pleasant, you’re relatable. And you show them that they should trust you because you’re always there when they have a problem, you fix it, when they have a concern, you explain to them or you educate them, but something they’re gonna continue to do business with you because you kind of hit those three points know, like, and trust.
Yeah. And you know what, something else I want to interject in here is to not be afraid to tell your clients that you’re learning stuff, even if you’re advanced, even if you’re late, you know, you’re really advanced in your journey. If because Google’s changing all the time, tools, tech, everything’s changing and web design, if you just let your clients know, hey, Google’s changing a lot with algorithm updates. So I’m currently learning more and to some advanced SEO just wanted to let you know that way, we may have some solutions to to help out here. And then in three months, when you have a new service, guess who’s going to be primed and ready to buy from you. Boom, there you go. Dude, this episode is go. I’m just gonna say right now this one is just we’ve been on some gold stuff, man. This is what I needed to hear early on, because this, we’re hitting some really important things here. Man, this is great.
Yeah, I feel like three years in I’ve always wondered, you know, we’ve talked about this a couple of times, right? I was, I reached out to you about hey, man, I’m thinking about doing a YouTube channel. Hey, man, I’m thinking about like, How can I you know, when you’re thinking about doing a blog, like what, I don’t want to just put more content out into the, into the internet. There’s so much content out there, but you want it to really be valuable and helpful to people. And as I have been thinking about this, and it isn’t something that happened overnight, I’ve really found that this stuff right here is like the the stuff that I wish more that has helped me honestly to grow my business. Yeah. To where it’s at right now. from a sales perspective.
Yeah, that’s awesome, man. That’s great. Well, alright, Danny, we’re getting close here, man hit us with we’re on the fifth one, right. And then we’ll maybe we have number five points here.
5) Proper Preparation Prevents Poor Performance
This is this is really easy. If you’ve done one through four. Then number five is just your prepared, walk in there with confidence. I mean, it’s that simple. And and I remember when I was really young, my dad came back from a business trip. And at some point, he said this, to me, it’s kind of the five P’s of five P’s of business, it still holds true today. It’s proper Preparation Prevents Poor Performance. It’s that simple. And I remember him telling me..
Can you say it a little slower, just so we get it just so I get it.
Yeah, it’s Proper Preparation Prevents Poor Performance. So if you’ve done the first four, and you’ve done them well, and you’ve invested in it, don’t don’t be lazy about it, but really look into it. Then number five is just walk in there with confidence. It’s, you know, you could do all those things, but if you’re just kind of a naturally like nervous Nellie, this is gonna be Maybe the hardest one for you walk in there with confidence. And once you do it once, twice, three times, four times, you know, once you just go through that, and you see success with that, you’re just going to grow in your confidence. And this is actually just going to almost become second nature to you. But yeah,
Especially even if you even if you’re not 100% confident with the results, if you’re confident with the preparation, like you just said, and the understanding of their business, then those often will come and as you get more results and get more products on your belt, then it just, it adds to that I love that it’s it is it’s really important. If you go to a sales meeting, or you have a sales call, and you don’t know anything about the client, anything about the business, anything about where they’re at, obviously, you’re going to learn a lot, but you’re going to probably be really nervous, because you’re not, you’re not prepared. That’s very, very well said, Man, that’s Can you so let’s, let’s recap all five real quick as we get ready to wrap this up, if you can just hit us with all the five as we kind of put a cap on this.
Yeah, number one is like that initial phone call, somebody has given you a referral, maybe your SEO, someone calls you through that somebody gets in contact with you somehow. The number one thing is on that very first conversation that you have with them, ask the right questions, screened them, make sure they’re your ideal customer. There were going to be like, my networking group just had this podcast episode about people that are leeches, they’re out there people that just want to get information from you and kind of then like bail out and really screened to make sure they’re the right customer for you.
Second thing is when you’re in that when you’re in that meeting, after you ask the right questions, and after you kind of got the potential client warmed up being an active listener, I found that a lot of businesses again, love talking about their business, and then they’ll it’ll it’ll become natural for them to talk about what the problems are, and should give you a couple of bullet points for how you can be the solution that they’re looking for.
Number three, before you walk into the actual face to face, research their business, see what they do research their competition, research their their Facebook, if they have one, find personal connections, go to LinkedIn, if you have to, you know, if you got a personal connection, that’s a friend, oh, hey, I know Joe, you know him too. Or, Hey, I went to the I go to that church, too, I’m surprised that I didn’t see you. Or, like, I didn’t know that your grandma was this, like find a connection somewhere that will make that will instantly take it from being a meeting a stranger to a level of familiarity, where you start not looking like a salesman, but you start looking like a friend and a person.
Number four is figuring out how you’re going to benefit them. So again, when they through the research that you do through having that initial quick conversation with him, figure out how to walk in there with some preconceived bullet points of how you’re going to be a benefit to them. And the fifth one is, remember the five P’s of business. Proper Preparation Prevents Poor Performance, walk in there with confidence, knowing that you are going to nail it because you’ve done all the preparation that you need to do. And at this point, the process is just going to take care of itself. You’ve done all that you need to do. Now it’s just go time go be yourself go talk about the thing that you’re passionate about, and expect good results at the end.
Oh, that’s good. Well said, Man, what a list. What a list. That’s like that’s a that’s a little ebook there or a nice Allegion. For sure. I have one final question for you. Before we get to that, though. Where would you like people to go? Oh, man, obviously you got your website? Is there a special link or anywhere that you’d like? Everyone listening to get a little more maybe get some tips on this?
Yeah, I actually am making a resource will be available when this podcast goes live. It’s going to be at empowered creative.co/josh Hall. So this is special for Josh Hall web design people and fans of Josh Hall. If you go there, there’s gonna be a free resource.
I’m just looking at the page. You got students and fans. Oh, yeah. Fans. That’s funny. Maybe listeners, students and listeners me I don’t know. I don’t know if the Josh Hall Fan Club is a thing, but it’s much appreciated either way.
Be Yeah, go there, there’s going to be a free resource is going to have a lot of this information there something that you can just have a physical copy of. And I think I’m going to flesh this out a little bit more, you know, personally, just because I think it can be helpful to people. So yeah. Be looking for resources in the future on this as well.
Yeah, this is awesome. I’m excited for it, man. Because you’re you’re getting into more, you know, web entrepreneurial stuff, which is what we hit in the beginning. You’re not just designing websites, marketing, it’s strategy. And I know you’re, I foresee you in the next maybe five years doing a lot more for just online web printers and folks outside of just you know, web design stuff. So I’m super, super excited for you. My last question for you, Danny is what is the difference between how you sell now versus how you sold? You know, say three years ago. Is there like one big difference from you as a person? I don’t want to call you a salesman. But yeah, what’s maybe one of the biggest differences with how you sell? Yeah.
Um, so I always had confidence that I could sell, which was really interesting. Because of my background in sales. Like I said, if you could sell in upstate New York, so anyway,
Door to door that’s like the door to door harshest sales
I’ve got stories are walking through like three foot snowdrifts and like a business suit. Like, you know, you get to someone’s house. And they’re like, I cannot believe you just walked up here for like a $26 renewal or something like that. I mean, so you’re testing?
I’ll give you my Business.
As I learned, and I grew in those areas, my conversations and the services that I could provide for people grew, and then my business grew on top of that because of it. – Danny
Yeah, exactly, exactly. So anyway, I always knew that part. But as I grew in my proficiency as a website designer, as I grew in my proficiency, and I continued my education in SEO and email marketing, I grew more and more confident to actually have those types of conversations in meetings. And that was the biggest thing for me. So my early sales would have been primarily just web design only, not strategy in any way. Because I wouldn’t know how to strategize with digital marketing, I didn’t really know enough about it. But as I grew, and I would say, the big thing is, don’t ever stop being a learner, keep learning. And as I learned, and I grew in those areas, my conversations and the services that I could provide for people grew, and then my business grew on top of that because of it.
That’s awesome. That’s great man. Well said, Danny, this is a really good chat, man, I’d, I mean that we really covered a lot of great things that I think are going to help people in all phases of their journey, whether they’re early on or whether they’re experienced, and just want to maybe get a higher conversion rate. The last thing I wanted to say I meant to say this earlier, I know this can sound intimidating, if you feel like you’re going to be selling 24/7 Every day. With web design, you don’t need to sell that much like this is a process you might use once or twice a week. And then once you get to a certain point, maybe it’s a couple times a month.
So I just want to encourage everybody like once you learn this framework and really dive into and definitely pick up the resource you’ve got Danny of everybody empowered creative.co/josh Hall, I’m still gonna convince you to convince you to say maybe students and audience or website listeners, I don’t know. I’m not ready to fans. It seems weird.
No, definitely change that for you, Josh. I said, If anyone ever wants to reach out on you know, social platforms, or whatever, you can find empowered creative on Facebook, you can find me on Facebook, social media, just when you send me a friend request from let me know that you’re a web designer, because I mostly cancel everybody else out. But you know, I really do try to help people and add value to their service.
Yeah, their business. That’s awesome. And then you’ll probably hit up the Josh Hall fan club. I know you will hear eventually. So all the Facebook group. Now this has been great, dude, thank you so much for sharing your expertise. And look, man, you’re still fairly early on in the journey. So I’m, I’m really excited to see what you do over the next few years. And I think you’re a very savvy, entrepreneurial business mind that is solution focused. I could, I would say in the beginning, your mind was more around providing good solutions for clients that your character has come out. It goes a long way. So man, what a great chat. Thanks so much for sharing your experience so far, Danny, I’m sure this won’t be the last time man.
Yeah, thank you so much, Josh. Thanks for having me on.
Awesome, dude. All right, till next time, everybody pick up this resource and thanks for your time, dude.
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