Raise your hand if your web design business is currently a side hustle!

Raise your other hand if your goal is to take it full time!

Raise your whole body if it’s freaking hard as heck to balance life, a full-time job and a side hustle!

Yep, it’s very difficult to successfully grow a side hustle while essentially being an after-hours entrepreneur and working nights and weekends…

But the good news is it can be done!

In this episode, host of The After-Hours Entrepreneur Podcast, Mark Savant, shares his top tips, strategies and advice for building your side hustle while working a full-time job and working…after hours!

For those of you trying to navigate this journey of building your side hustle web design business so that you can go full time one day, this is your episode!

But even for those of you doing web design full time, these tactics and tips will help you bring on other endeavors, passion projects, etc.

Enjoy!

In this episode:

00:00 – Introduction
04:00 – Greeting to Mark
06:01 – What’s in a name
10:57 – Applying your after-hours
13:31 – Lean into what works
19:11 – Find great people
21:29 – Outsource & automate
24:41 – If you have $1,000,000
26:44 – Find your space
30:30 – Clear expectations
36:49 – Thoughts on the landscape
43:38 – Be organized not overwhelmed
47:55 – Great community
53:57 – Where to find Mark
58:13 – Mindset of “You can”

Get Personalized Coaching from Josh


Connect with Mark:

Featured links mentioned:

Episode #170 Full Transcription

Josh 0:14
Hello, all you awesome web design folk. This is Josh here. Welcome into episode. Well, of course, it’s Josh. It’s the Josh Hallweb design show. It was a weird way to start this one Anywho. This is episode 170. Sorry, I just got done doing some tutorials. So I’m like, Hey, it’s Josh here. Anywho, Episode 170. This one is about how to be an after hours entrepreneur. And I think this is really important because a lot of you might be doing web design as a side hustle. So you are literally growing your business after normal work hours on nights and weekends, in hopes to go full time one day.

Josh 0:51
So in order to really flesh this idea out and really dive deep into this topic, I wanted to bring on somebody who actually has a lot of experience in this. This is Mark savant, who has a podcast called Are you ready for this? The after hours entrepreneur. So Mark actually had me recently on his show, and we had a really great chat. And I invited him on to my show here to talk with you guys about this topic and how to practically, tactically and maybe more importantly, strategically, build your web design business after hours and how to do it without killing yourself. Because this is really tricky. And I understand how hard this is.

Josh 1:31
In fact, even when I built my brand here at Josh Hall co up, I was essentially doing it after hours, I was doing it while I was building my web design business as well. So it was really exciting to hear Marc’s take on this and how he’s actually doing it and the tips that he’s seen that has worked really well for his audience. So for those of you who are not yet full time web designers, you’re doing it after hours, and you’re doing it as a side hustle. This episode is going to empower you in so many ways, even those of you who are full time web designers, maybe you have a side hustle or maybe you have a passion project that you want to do alongside your full time work. I think this episode is really going to give you a lot of tips and actionable advice to help you do it successfully. So I’m really, really excited for you.

Josh 2:17
Now one thing I will say before we dive in, if you are going to do this successfully and not work 90 hours a week, you have to be so strategic about what work you’re going to do that is going to get the biggest impact. And quite honestly, I don’t know too many courses or trainings out there that are going to help you through this, it often is going to take a more one on one personal kind of touch to figure out your priorities and your strategy. So if that is you, I would love to personally help you prioritize and figure out what you need to do. In order to take your side hustle full time as quickly as possible, you have to be strategic. And I would love to personally help you with that.

Josh 3:00
My coaching program is available now. It’s my web design club. It’s my coaching community, you can go to Josh hall.co/coaching, to find out more about that. And there’s a special offer there for you. And that will allow you and I to have personal conversation. And you can join my coaching community I can quote you directly. You’ll also be supported by all sorts of other web designers, many of whom, who are in your shoes now to so you can chat with them to see about what’s working for them and get surrounded by an amazing community to go from an after hours entrepreneur to full time web design. So join us today again, just go to Josh hall.co/coaching. With an offer to sign up for my coaching program. I would love to chat with you. I can’t wait to meet you and help you prioritize your goals for doing this. And without further ado, here’s Mark, we’re gonna load you up with a lot of ideas and practical advice for being an after hours entrepreneur. And getting ready to take your side hustle full time.

Josh 4:00
Mark, welcome onto the podcast man. Great to have you on dude.

Mark 4:04
Yo, Josh, what up? It’s good to see you again.

Josh 4:07
It’s funny because you just you’re a podcaster if people can’t already tell by just hearing your voice and seeing your setup, but you were in host mode a little bit ago, we had to redo the intro because I told you I need you in guest mode now. You recently had me on your podcast, it was an awesome experience, which is the after hours entrepreneur podcast so much fun. So I wanted to return the favor and have you on particularly to talk about this idea of after hours entrepreneurship I got a lot of folks who are listening to this who might be side hustling and are trying to build their business on the side after hours of wanting to go full time. So needless to say super excited to flip the table here and have you on to talk about this before we dive in man. Do you want to let everybody know first off where you’re based out of and then if you could just share what you do whether your website or whether the podcast that’d be awesome.

Mark 4:56
Yeah, so thanks for laying that up for me here Josh. I live in sunny South Florida. And the the USofA. I guess, and I love it down here. I’ve been down here a long time. But one of the coolest things about the internet is I’m connected with everybody all over the place, which is super cool. What I do on my side is I make podcast production Simple, right? I think that over the past four years, I’ve learned a ton. And I’ve just really focused on taking off as much of the production off of clients plates as possible. And sometimes that manifest in doing consulting work to help a team or a business build out their own systems, or in some cases, in the majority of cases is just I take all the podcast production off your plate, so all you do is show up and record we do everything else.

Josh 5:41
Gotcha. Gotcha. Now your podcast is a quite a different brand, I guess that imagine your listenership might be a little bit different. Although I know a lot of your your ideal customers are podcasting? Where did the idea for the after hours entrepreneur podcast come from? Because I love the name. It’s really clear what the name is. Where did that come from?

Mark 6:01
Well, it’s funny, I find that coming up with a great name for a show is really, really tough. And I agonized Josh, I agonize in my room for months, keyword research and trying to find a name and I find a great name. And then someone already had it or I couldn’t get the domain. Ba ba ba ba ba goes on and on and on. And for about three months, I was stuck in my room in my little lab, trying to figure out the perfect name. And it’s just so happens that we were on a road trip, I was going with my wife on a road trip, going up to Central Florida. And I was just explaining what the show is about. And all the sudden, after hours entrepreneur came out, and I was like, dang, that’s it. That’s it.

Mark 6:40
But I do just want to kind of say, Josh, that you brought up an interesting point here that I found about entrepreneurship, and that it’s not a straight line, it’s not like super clear, obvious where your ship is headed right away. And over the years, my brand has evolved immensely. And it probably is still going to continue to evolve as I learn more about my audience about myself, and about my client.

Josh 7:05
Well, that’s interesting, because I was kind of curious, and I back up, there’s a reason my show was named after my name, because I was like, Screw it. I’m just gonna call it the Josh Hall Web Design Show done row, let’s go, I had to get to that point, because I had every other name in and around web design did the same thing. That’s some keyword research. So I was like, you know, I thought about the web design business show or whatever I was like, Screw it, we’re going the personal brand route, since that’s my website.

Josh 7:27
Anyway, but the after hours entrepreneur name, I definitely think resonates with a lot of folks who, especially who are in that position where they want to get to full time, they are still not a full time entrepreneur in your case. And I imagine that has probably opened up a lot of different types of entrepreneurs in different industries, right? I mean, are you serving like coaches, designers, product entrepreneurs? Do you? Do you get a lot of different types of entrepreneurs coming through that?

Mark 7:54
So that the short answer is yes, I try to really hone in on entrepreneurs, business owners that that I think are going to help me build my business, right and not meaning by like, I just want to because people start podcasts for different reasons, one of the reasons you might start a podcast is to get potential clients on the phone with you. So you can bring them on as a guest provide value and maybe land them as a client. So that’s not that wasn’t really my goal, although it’s kind of happened and manifested that way on occasion.

Mark 8:23
My, my really my goal was to try to get answers to get problems solved. Because as you’re growing as an entrepreneur, there’s so many problems. There’s all the systems within your business, there’s lead gen, there’s marketing, there’s your business development, there’s all the branding, there’s don’t even get me started on taxes and contracts and all the legal stuff. There’s just so much to learn. And the after hours entrepreneur really focuses on building a digital business, you know, and so, I think it’s great if you’re a restaurant owner, you want to build up your restaurant, whatnot, we cover some of that stuff, too, right? If you want to launch a podcast or YouTube channel in the backend, but really what I try to do is focus on the people that have been there and done that, and can help me in my audience, take that step to the next level, in not just educate and learn these tactics, but actually look at ways that we can execute them in our day to day life.

Josh 9:20
Well, an important thing I want to know here too, if for folks listening who are full time and who are not a side, Hustler, web designer or entrepreneur, I’m sure we’re going to hit a lot of things that are equally as valuable and just as relatable and impractical for full time designer like I often think when I hear about the term launch, after hours entrepreneur, that still resonates with me, because I’m still doing I’m still learning about things in my business almost after hours. I don’t generally work more than 35 hours a week or so. But there are some times where I might take a course and I spend some time in an evening or something and go through stuff.

Josh 9:55
So I’m still doing stuff after hours and I think a lot of other people are weather that is in the context of outside of a full time job, or you’re a full time or ally case, a lot of cases, it’s a passion business. A lot of people I know are full time web designers, but they’re doing something on the side as a passion. So I just wanted to make that clear right up front. Everything we’re talking about is not just for somebody, I’m sure as a corporate professional who wants to go full time entrepreneurialship Have you found that as well, that you’re you’re getting people across the board who may not just be that, you know, full time nine to five guy or gal who wants to start their entrepreneur journey.

If there’s one thing I found about successful entrepreneurs, Josh, is that we’re always innovating. You’re always trying something new. – Mark

Mark 10:29
I mean, 100% If there’s one thing I found about successful entrepreneurs, Josh, is that we’re always innovating. You’re always trying something new. How can I scale this? How can I reach more people? How can I get into clubhouse and turn the, the nozzle there? How can I leverage tic toc where you know, so, while a lot of my episodes deal kind of more with the digital marketing side of things, because that’s what I do. I do podcast production. So I really focus on how can we get our name out there reach the right people, etc.

Mark 10:57
The reality is like, if you’re not applying your after hours to learn and develop and innovate, I just don’t know how you can be successful, the world is changing so quickly. It’s like every day, something new is happening, you know. And I really think that that’s what after hours, entrepreneurship is about, it’s about this commitment to while they’re watching Netflix, I’m learning I’m cleaning up my legal contract, or I’m improving my onboarding process. You know, it’s, it’s, it’s really I think that’s what it’s all about, is putting that after hours effort.

Josh 11:29
Now, let’s start this off with what might be a bit of a difficult question, because I’m curious about this. And I struggled with this when I was starting my business, although I didn’t have a full time corporate job. When I started my business, I had essentially odd jobs. I forget on our podcast, when I was on your show, Mark, if I told you that I was a cabinet maker, and a musician, right. And I got into design and stuff. So I was kind of like doing a bunch of random stuff. So I didn’t have the typical like nine to five and then did work in evenings. I basically just worked all the time, it did a bunch of random stuff. But the question is, how do you work after hours or times that may not be the typical Monday through Friday, nine to five, but don’t end up killing yourself early on and don’t end up working 90 hours? So is it about setting boundaries and balance as to how much you invest in those after hours?

Mark 12:20
So I mean, this is a, like you said, a really difficult question. Because effort, effort, effort is so important. And really what I try to strive for in what I do with podcast production with my show is try to see like, how can we avoid the pitfalls? How can we stop ourselves from wasting time, you know, wasting a year trying out Facebook groups, like how can we avoid going a route that’s not going to bear fruit? Or turn the needle on our business?

Josh 12:48
And it’s good point.

Mark 12:50
You know, for me, it’s it’s incredibly difficult, right? I run an insurance agency by day I run a podcast production company by night, I’m married, I got two kids five and two. And it’s extremely difficult. In fact, I went three years in a row just like super hard, like, Gary Vee style, push, push, push. And it actually in at the end of 2021, I had like a health of health break, right? So look, I didn’t take a step back, I got to reassess things. And by doing that, it made me much more thoughtful about the systems that I have in place. It made me much more thoughtful about the people, the team that I build, to help execute these plans.

Mark 13:31
So it’s, listen, it’s going to be tough, it’s going to be a challenge. But when I look at a business that’s that’s growing, when you’re creating something from nothing, extremely difficult, extremely difficult. Don’t let anyone tell you it’s not it’s so easy to get caught up in, you know, these quote unquote, entrepreneurs with bang energy drinks on their bikini, that, you know, entrepreneurship is tough, and it’s arduous. There’s ups and downs. And where we’re at least where I’m at full disclosure has been working on this business for about three and a half years. And it’s finally starting to move from that crawling to that walking phase. Which to me is really exciting. Once we get from crawling to walking, then we get the systems in place, then we cut out the day job, then we just start sprinting and running. And that’s kind of the way that I see on after hours entrepreneurship going, look for fruit look for seeds, and then start to really lean into what works.

Josh 14:23
That’s a That’s a great answer to the question because it’s kind of what I wanted to get out of that was how do you prioritize? What do you prioritize you set it to whatever is going to move the needle forward, and you’re not going to waste a year on are going to waste too much time on it. Honestly, even like I’m full time doing this, I still have to have that same mentality being full time because I don’t want to waste a whole day. Doing something every hour is extremely valuable. And similarly like I have two kids I have two little girls I don’t want to miss them growing up during the days and miss things that even as a full time entrepreneur working from home if you can miss you can very easily fall into To the trap of 24/7.

Mark 15:02
Yeah,

Josh 15:02
A lot of people think like, I’m gonna leave the nine to five. But I often joke around to people who are do want to leave the corporate world. So you have to be careful. You don’t want to go to the 24/7. So it’s a great point, it’s a great point, you have to have those priorities, probably those boundaries on what you can invest in how much time you’re going to give yourself for certain projects and stuff. I’m glad that you mentioned to I meant to mention this early on that you are an after hours entrepreneur right now. So you are a good example of this. I think this is why it’s really cool to have you on to talk about this because you are living it. Tell us about what you’re doing full time, because what’s interesting about this is we started this call at 3pm. Eastern, we’re on the same timezone. So you’re obviously not in the office doing that work? Do you work from home doing that? What’s your full time schedule look like is a little more flexible.

Mark 15:46
So. So yes, I know a little bit of both. So I run an insurance agency, got a great team been there for about a decade. And full disclosure, my father is actually the agent. And so that is really opened up different opportunities. For me, everyone, I just want to say that I think that everybody has different opportunities, right, and acknowledging where you have opportunities and where to leverage them is really, really important, it’s very easy to get caught up in looking at, oh, it was easy for them because they had money or it’s easy for that person because they worked at Disney and had connections, you know, but think about the opportunities that you have. And I think that that mentality will start to bear more fruit than it will kind of looking at what the other person has or doesn’t have access to.

Mark 16:33
But I do just want to kind of make a little point because you you brought something up about navigating day job plus after hours, hustle plus all these other things. And this really strikes home with me. Last week, we had I mean, there was a bunch of issues at our insurance agency, a bunch of a bunch of issues, and kind of like a perfect storm, where multiple team members are out the same day.

Josh 16:59
Right during Thanksgiving. Of course, we’re recording this the week after Thanksgiving.

Mark 17:02
Yeah, everyone’s already stressed out. We’re already behind everyone is trying to get stuff out the last minute. And my father, who is the agent, the owner of agency has said Hey, Mark, you know, I know that typically you’re building your podcast agency on Tuesdays, I need to bring you in to help out because we’re short staffed on stuff. And I said, okay, cool. That’s what I do. I you know, we solve problems, we was all I think, as a team lead, that’s important. And so I said, Okay, I’ll do it, I’m going to be stressed out somebody behind here, and then we behind there. And then on top of that my wife got upset at me, because I wasn’t gonna be there with her because she’s used to this schedule. And she’s used to having her time away from the kids to go do things while I’m at home. And then as I leave for work in the morning to go to the office, my daughter says Why do you have to work you’re always worried.

Mark 17:50
And so this is I think one of the biggest challenges that we overcome as after our as entrepreneurs is this. This almost like need to please everybody. And that’s really that’s what my goal is, is not only to help myself, but to help others move from being spread too thin and being pulled in so many directions. And in shifting into a place where you can just focus on that one thing. And that’s kind of my goal with the show. And my goal with the podcast production agency that that I’m building out here at Mark spot media.

Josh 18:23
So in regards to your full time sounds like you’re a bit of a both you got a little bit of flexibility, but same time you have do you have like certain days that you work in an office somewhere and able to work from home is that kind of how that works and how you’re able to sit down your your agency in the podcast along with that.

Mark 18:40
Yeah, that’s the way I’ve I’ve at least match my schedule is I’m physically in office Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and then I work remotely in the home lab here, this beautiful lab that you see here on Tuesdays and Thursdays. So Thursdays are kind of like hybrid days, and then, you know, evenings, weekends, you know, we get scrappy, we find time to get things done. But one of the questions I get a lot is mark your show up in my feed every day you’re doing this, you’re doing that you’ve got multiple shows, like how are you doing everything? And the answer is pretty simple. It’s surrounding yourself with great people, and then empowering them to do something that they love that they’re good at and that they enjoy it. That’s, I mean, I guess that in a nutshell comes down to leadership, leading others and empowering others. But that’s kind of how I navigate the hats as best I can.

Josh 19:31
And you have a little team like you’re hitting on something really important. I think a lot of people think they need to be full time in something in order to start scaling. But if I were if I were in a situation where I was nine to five, and luckily like you mentioned there’s there’s a lot of hybrid models now especially after COVID. There’s a lot of businesses that have these like either work from home folks or they’re it’s like a hybrid approach which opens the door to more entrepreneurship opportunities. But the cool thing is

Mark 19:59
I just want to say before going to that next point, I do want to say that’s a huge opportunity, not happy to commute to the office, you just earned yourself an hour, two hours a day, you know?

Josh 20:07
Great point. What are you gonna do with that you’re gonna watch next Netflix show? Are you gonna, you know, start doing whatever it is what’s on Netflix, but it does present the opportunity of like, okay, there’s a little bit more time here. What am I gonna do with this? And if you do have a side hustle, what a perfect time to do that. But like, like you mentioned, you got a team that’s managing a lot of this for you. I know, when my episode went live on your show, I know that you probably didn’t personally create all the graphics and do all the post production and distribution. Maybe you did some of it. I don’t know. But he didn’t do all of it, which I do.

Mark 20:39
I did for years, hundreds of episodes. So yeah, thankfully, I got out of that grind. Yeah,

Josh 20:45
Same here, I brought on a VA Shout out to Kam, and then I brought in my editor and Episode 100, or just before 100. So in my life has changed dramatically. And more importantly, I’m able to spend more time with that extra time I have to the business and my family. But I’m also able to serve everyone listening better, because now suddenly, I’m not doing all the editing and doing the tech, but I’m actually creating more content and getting guests and stuff like that. So I just think it’s a really important point to make. You don’t have to and I’m curious on your thoughts on this. You don’t have to be full time to start bringing on some help and delegating, would you say that’s even more important to be able to, to free yourself up when you’re an after hours entrepreneur so that you’re not doing everything in your business?

Mark 21:29
Well, the short answer is yes. Bringing on a team just completely changes your world. It is expensive, though. So you need to figure out does this fit my budget and like generating enough income? From here? Do I need to subsidize, you know, be my main business? Do I need to cut stuff out? So So that’s important, I think generally speaking, the best ways to remove yourself from processes are to leverage various systems that are already out there. Calendly, for example, is a really easy way to book guests for your podcast, it automatically can set up a Zoom meeting where you can meet and record, then it automatically sends reminders to your guests.

Mark 22:06
So you can really instead of hiring a VA, you can just use Calendly is your entire guest setup strategy, you know, using programs like Zapier to automate different systems together, me and my team use Monday to basically do all of our project management, which has automation, which we’re just really diving into. That’s one of the big goals for 2022 and scaling. But the short answer is, I think, looking for ways to outsource all the different tasks that you do is really important. And like you said, identifying what are the tasks that I can really provide the most value? Because your show your business, your brand experience could be a lot better if you’re focused on that. Rather than do we have the Instagram story ready for tomorrow? Right? Oh, it’s put your priorities in line.

Josh 22:52
That’s a great point. And I’ve talked a lot about scaling on the podcast, and then my business course and some other free resources that I put out from like scaling a full time web design agency to six figures and beyond. But those same principles here, shocker. They work from a side hustle to like, yeah, the the idea of task inventory and figuring out what the most important task is and what I should focus on what I can either automate, or delegate. That’s it. Whether you do that at scale with a full time agency, or whether you’re doing that as a side hustle. It’s still the same.

There is never going to be “totally comfortable” going full time. – Josh

Josh 23:24
It’s the principle that is the same and I I definitely you’re totally right, Mark and saying that there’s cost to it. And you have to evaluate expenses and make sure it aligns with your, your budget and everything. But the reality is, if you are a side Hustler, and you do everything yourself, it’s gonna take a long time probably to get into a place where you can comfortably go full time, and there is never going to be totally comfortable going full time. But it’s going to take a lot longer. So if you can delegate automate as much as you can’t, and we’ll help expedite the journey greatly. So I’m glad you made that point. That’s a biggie, that’s a biggie.

Mark 23:59
100% percent. That’s and that’s really what I focus on is either a giving businesses the tools to create these systems for their show. Or if you say, Mark, I don’t want to deal with the hassle. You just do it. And you can hire an agency like Mark spawn media to handle the whole podcast production. So again, I listen, in general, if you can hire a firm or an agency to handle your problem, it’s probably going to give you the best result. It’s going to get you there faster, but it’s more expensive. You know, so depending on where you’re at, in your journey that may or may not be something that’s a great fit, but I think that working towards building these strong and found, you know, resources around you is really important.

Mark 24:41
It’s kind of funny, I you know, I know we want to keep moving with the topics here. But when I hear about people that say, you know, if only I had a million dollars, then I could bet I’d have a really great business. I feel like it would be the opposite. You know, because when you’re in your side hustle phase of your life when you’re building your infrastructure you’re trying to do Build a concrete support, you’re trying to build the structural support to actually build a building on you can’t build a building without a foundation. If you don’t have the systems, the scalability, you don’t have the right people in place, it just keeps fizzling out. And that’s something that I struggled with over the past few years.

Josh 25:17
Great point, great point. And everything you do from the first day that you decide to do something, even if it’s just on the side, as a side hustle, those are the bricks that you’re laying that is the foundation. That is that is going to build that entrepreneurial business muscle that’s going to help you through situations later on. That’s so important. Man, I’m glad you made that point. Because I think a lot of people tend to want to rush or get past the first phase of a journey. But when I look back at where I’ve come, some of the most substantial, like biggest business lessons came from mistakes early on, and came from the very first things that I did, like those first couple years were so informative, and so crucial.

Josh 26:00
So all that to say, enjoy it, like enjoy the day to day progress. Progress is the name of the game in any business or entrepreneurial ship or weight loss, whatever it is, it’s all about progress. So that is a biggie now that also though, can lead to what is one of the most important and I think probably popular terms of today in entrepreneurship, especially web design, which is imposter syndrome. As a side Hustler, you might be looking at people who are full time and think, ah, am I am I an imposter because I’m not full time doing this. How do you combat that? And how can people who are side hustling combat imposter syndrome, with what they’re up to when they might have competition? That’s full time.

Mark 26:44
Yeah, so imposter syndrome is definitely a real thing I have suffered from it at times, I think that everyone has, there’s a few different ways that I attack it. So a, I just try to keep perspective that there’s things that I know that are helpful to people, you know, I might not be you know, when it comes to podcast production, I might not be, you know, the top shelf. But I know a lot more than a lot of people. So I tried to find my space. And being I think transparent in documenting the process, I think is really, really important. Especially if you’re producing a show. Like, you know, like a podcast, for example, it can be really easy to to leverage that as a way to position yourself as I know this, I know that I’m an expert, everything which it does. That’s that’s important that it establishes your credibility and your know how and your network.

Josh 27:32
I’m just curious, because it is tricky. I think particularly for web designers who are side hustlers. And they’re like, how do I? How do I compare combat with people who are full time like that really does lead to the imposter syndrome? So would it just be like said focusing on your strengths, focusing on your zone of genius, that kind of thing? Is that what kind of helps people in a side hustle type of role get through that?

Mark 27:57
Absolutely. So to kind of finish where I was, where I was going here is that this everyone has something to give and if you really focus on documenting the journey, and to me being transparent about the failures and the stuff that messed you up, people I think empathize with that I just got off a call with with Chris Nealon came on the show and he built this business called Colt right and is a basically it’s a marketing agency that doesn’t focus on paid ads. It focuses on develop on what are brands doing to create these cult like followings. Right? The types of people that are aware of Coca Cola t shirt, right or that will, you know, drink Gatorade because of the electric bolt that they remembered.

Mark 28:45
You know, what are these things that create these cult like following followings toms, you buy a pair of shoes we give a pair of shoes away, he’s like, really powerful thing. So I think that when you’re transparent, you’re honest about your the own challenges that you’re going through, the more people get attracted to that I feel like people get attracted that authenticity. And it’s, it’s that, to me is what imposter syndrome is like, you’re not positioning yourself in front of a Lamborghini, when you drive a Honda Civic, you’re being honest and saying listen, just like I did here, I run a podcast production agency, I got a few clients. I’m moving from the crawling to the walking phase. And I’m hoping by next time, by this time next year, I’ll be focused solely on this right? So

Josh 29:26
Now is there a time in place when it comes to I’m all about being authentic and being real and transparent. But at the same time for a web designer in particular who might be side hustling, they may not want their clients to know about the full time gig, although if they’re going to try to call you and getting in touch with you, they’re going to have to know so this is a really great point this conversation where it’s like how transparent are we do we do we move forward with that transparency like a level back?

Josh 29:52
So like on my website, if I’m working full time, I’m not going to be like, you know, I’m a landscaper by day web designer by Nike and I’m like I want That makes sure my business is going to be taken care of what I would probably do in that case is just be honest with the client moving forward that the these are my work hours. I’m currently transitioning here soon to full time web design. But this is where I’m at now. And I have a lot of students in this position. It’s actually a great point, because a lot of students who are wondering like, how do I handle this? How transparent Am I about this? What are your thoughts on that mark? Like? How transparent do we get? Do we just have to measure like, is this gonna hurt my business? Is it gonna help? But what are your thoughts on that with how transparent we are? If it’s a side hustle?

Mark 30:30
Yeah, so the answer is transparent as possible without making yourself a victim, I think. Because you’re right. You know, if you hire a new if a new client hires you, they’re gonna want to make sure that they’re getting their full value that you’re paying full attention. So we could go into detail on like your onboarding process. But when you’re onboarding a new client, new customer, it is really important that you set expectations upfront, what are we going to do? How are we going to get there? How, you know, what is the goal of all this.

Mark 31:00
And honestly, that has been probably the biggest lesson for me, over the past couple of years or so, is falling forward in every single client making my onboarding better and more clear, my first client was a train wreck. My second one was a bike wreck. The third, we’re starting to actually drive safely. And over time, things get better. But there is one point that I think that I want to make here, Josh, when it comes to social media, when it comes to branding, when it comes to positioning, what you do, you don’t want there to be any confusion.

Mark 31:33
This is a really common mistake that people will make when they’re trying to build an after hours, hustle is you’ll go to their Facebook page or LinkedIn. LinkedIn, I think is a great example of this, it’ll show that you’re working at I don’t know Coca Cola, they also have this going all set back going, I would recommend, what what is your priority? What do you want people to know you for? And that’s what you put out there. If you don’t, like, I don’t really care if people know me as being in the insurance industry, you are not gonna find anything related to insurance on my LinkedIn profile. It’s all podcast production and media production. It’s not because I don’t do that on the side, it’s because this is what I want to be clear on exactly what I do and how I can provide value to others.

Josh 32:11
That’s a great point. Because we can control a lot of that, like, sure if we are an employee with someone, there may be some place where they can find us online. But right unless a client really tried to dig into that it’s unlikely, particularly if it’s like a corporate type of thing, where it’s unlikely it’s gonna be online. But it’s a great point, because you do more now now. So than ever, you have the ability to control your online presence. So you can put out there what you want. And the really cool thing, even if you do work nine to five or a hybrid, you can control the conversation. And it all comes back to what you just talked about Mark, which was the onboarding sequence. T

Josh 32:48
hat particularly if you are side hustling, you need to make it clear when you work or when you don’t have to say when you work, but you can say like, if you have edits, send them over, we’ll get back to you within 24 hours, they don’t need to know that you send an email at 6pm and not nine or during work hours. And if they need to set up a call, you can set up evening or weekend calls rarely, ideally, but the cool thing about that is most business owners are busy during the day doing their business, so they often want to do calls in the evenings anyway.

Josh 33:19
So there’s actually a lot of potential here for side hustlers to control the narrative control the options, I think it’s a really good point because if you are going to side hustle, it kind of combats imposter syndrome, because it’s like, it doesn’t freakin matter. Whether I work from nine to four, or whether I work from four to eight for a little while, it doesn’t matter, I’m still gonna get the work done. So I really, I hope that gives everyone confidence as a side Hustler, that you can still do just as much damage as somebody full time in the allotted time. Whenever Whenever you work, it doesn’t matter. Now, it does not matter when you work or where you work, or what persona. Yeah,

Mark 33:55
You know, one of the things that you’ve done, Josh that I really admire is implementing videos and educational content FAQs into your websites and stuff. That’s another way of trying to alleviate those type of this is actually I’m gonna kind of back it up a little bit. This is why I got started on YouTube in the first place. Okay. People kept asking me the same questions. They kept asking the same question, I had a list of a bunch of FAQs, I just started recording videos. And it’s evolved a lot since then.

Mark 34:24
But, you know, finding ways to get systemize automize find ways that you can replicate yourself, maybe you have, like I have a podcast production manager now that helps with a lot of the client interactions. Sometimes I get involved but that’s a whole nother can of worms. But anyway, finding ways that you can support your clients without actually you physically. Being the one that does, it’s another way that you can create but create an expectation. Deliver it in try to keep that separation from from you and your job.

Josh 34:56
Well even more important for side hustlers, because you You don’t necessarily need to be on call nine to five during work hours. If you do start to record all the questions that you get, you start to record those answers. There you go, you’ve killed so many birds with one stone, you just develop trust, likeability and authority, you’ve created some content, which you could repurpose, you could put it on your website, you could promote it, you could, you know, put stuff together and like a client resources type of page, you can do all these things while working on the side that will continue to basically be a little worker for you.

Josh 35:27
That’s how I view my YouTube videos are all podcast, there are these little workers that I create once and they can be continued to be listened to or watched over and over and over and over again, some of my videos right now, or some of my most popular videos were done like three years ago. So it works. And I’m not saying everyone needs to be an influencer, or a YouTuber, but by golly, make videos of just answering questions, you’re gonna have to answer those questions anyway, to clients. I think I told you this when we were chatting on your podcast, you might as well make it a video. And yeah, it doesn’t need to be polished or super professional or anything.

Josh 36:00
If clients are gonna ask us questions, it makes it look awesome to say, Yeah, I’ve got this resource here. And that really will help with this whole side hustle type design, because it builds that authority and trust and credit. So yeah, I just think it’s really important because it’s, it’s a big question I see all the time. And, again, it’s a little, it was a little bit different for me, because my side hustle was like, right in the middle of all my other side hustles. So it was like one of four in the beginning. A little bit different than a typical corporate situation, but it doesn’t matter. And I’m actually kind of curious, what are your thoughts on the landscape now of entrepreneurialship? as a whole? Like, are you super excited about the opportunities with both this hybrid model with being able to have a side hustle? And like, are you excited about the landscape of technology and entrepreneurship now?

Mark 36:49
Okay, so I’m excited. But I’m a nervous, nervous, excited, so anxious, I guess the way the way to say it.

Josh 36:57
Okay.

Mark 36:57
And Gary Vee talk has been talking about this for a while, you know, the economic landscape has been really good. The last decade or so it’s been a really great time, I think, to to build a business. And I think that there’s gonna be more and more resources out there in the cream are gonna rise the crop, if you’re able to be super clear about what you do and who you serve. And you’re actually you’re helping people solve real problem. No doubt, opportunities are going to be great.

Mark 37:23
What I’m, I mean, personally nervous or concerned about, again, full transparency, right. That’s one of the reasons one of the things that’s almost holding me back from quitting the full time job and going full time into the side hustle is, what happens if we have a recession? What happens if we have a depression? What happens if all this money that’s in the ecosystem gets completely inflated and is useless, you know, so, you look at history every 10 years, there’s something bad economic that happens every 80 years or something like disasters that happens economically.

Mark 37:55
So, you know, while I’m extremely excited about the long tail of innovation, about technology, about the ability to communicate and scale, that very excited about that? Financially, I’m a little bit nervous. And I think that, you know, if you’re serious about moving into a side, moving your side hustle into a full time, source of income, I think you need to be thoughtful about, you know, who you serve, what are the vulnerabilities? How can I reduce my expenses? How can I increase, you know, the normal stuff, but I don’t want to doom and gloom, everyone because I do think that at the same time, we’re moving into this Freelancer style of economy where I just I don’t think people are gonna be going these big corporate headquarters in 10 years, people are gonna be working from home.

Josh 38:38
Yeah, there’s gonna be a hybrid for quite a while now. I’m gonna put my coaching shoes on here, Mark, because this is a really good point. I actually, I appreciate you first off being transparent about that, because that’s a that’s probably a feeling that most entrepreneurs share. I felt that however, my tune has changed dramatically over the past probably two years, particularly through COVID. Because I saw a lot of people who had one job, one source of income, and they spent hundreds of 1000s of dollars in debt and college to get this job. And guess what happened? They were not in the must haves. Yeah, kind of zone like they were the Expendables, they there was a job that wasn’t deemed necessary during during a few months, sometimes a few weeks, sometimes longer.

Josh 39:26
I actually think it’s almost more risky now to have, which I know this isn’t the case for you or a lot of other people’s listening, but it’s so much more risky, in my mind to have only one source of income that you don’t get role like if you just get a job. That is a risky position. Because what you can see what of that yeah, you’re vulnerable one of that recession does happen. So I actually think it’s more important more exciting than ever, to be in Oxford or to at least have different sources of income that you can build up turn up whenever the case whenever it comes and Yeah, I know you’re in a situation that might be a little bit different because it sounds like it’s family type business.

Josh 40:04
So it’s not like, there’s probably some intricacies there, I imagine getting getting that role eventually. But that’s my, that’s my kind of, that’s my thought towards that as a bit of, well hold on, because, because it is risky. Also, on the other hand of just clinging to a full time job and letting a potential side hustle, go by that maybe you could make three, four or five times as much as a full time employee in that job. So I understand it. But yeah,

Mark 40:36
And that’s why it’s important, I think, just to start trying different stuff, whether it’s web design, podcasting, maybe you’re selling T shirts on on Etsy, whatever you’re trying to do, because what you’re doing at that time is you’re building up skills, okay? And you brought up a really good point, Josh, and that’s this idea that to be successful in the United States or in the world, you got to go to college, you got to get that degree, you got to get the, the the great job, and then you can retire when you’re 70. But we’re seeing a, I think, a very profound shift from this credential based economy to a skills based economy.

Mark 41:09
As good, you know, to me, when I think about the future of entrepreneurship, and in this side hustle mentality, you know, even if this podcast production agency doesn’t turn into, you know, a six, seven figure business, even if even if it’s just ends up being a side hustle, I’m going to be developing skills to make myself incredibly relevant in this new marketplace. So if I lose this other position, and I know that I’ve got the infrastructure, I’ve got the skills, I’ve got the network, then I can make the next thing happen.

Josh 41:42
And there it is a great point, and anyone doing a side hustle, just remember, it’s never for nothing. It’s never all for naught. Even if you end up disbanding with eventually, you learn new skills. Most all web designers, entrepreneurs, and what you’re learning is you’re learning communication, you’re learning team building automation, delegation, you’re learning basic business principles about all these things that we’ve already talked about. So far, you are learning that so no matter where you go from here, you’ve automatically got these new skill sets that I guarantee your full time job is not teaching you.

Josh 42:14
And that is the big thing I will say to you mentioned the the idea of going from a credential based economy to skills based that’s 100% True. Guess how many clients asked me if I had a college degree? Anyone watching a whole nother big zero, nobody gave a shit. No one wanted to know if I went to Ohio State or whatever, which is the big thing where I’m from, they just want to know, can you help me grow my business? What do you know that that and that is awesome. And again, I’ve talked about this a lot. I tend to rail a little bit, but I am not against College. Completely.

Josh 42:45
I’m against it for most things in business and marketing, because I personally, from my experience, and from what I’ve seen, and people around me, college tends to just slow people down and be a terrified of failure, and then they get so far in debt. And there’s this mentality of uh, this, this idea of being afraid to fail as an entrepreneur is brutal, you have got to get over that stat like you are going to fail. I fail at stuff all the time. It really is experimenting and trying things. And I guess a question on that note for you, Mark. How has work for you, as an entrepreneur differ from your work as a full time employee? Like do you? Do you feel more open to try things and fail? What does that look like for you?

Mark 43:26
Well, so definitely, I’m more willing to try things and fail because, you know, you’re ultimately only responsible to yourself, you don’t have to answer to to a higher up or somebody else. Good. So So I definitely think that I’m more willing to fail, but I just can’t. I mean, this is so this is such an understated point. And to me, it’s one of the hardest parts about trying to build up your business is that every single day, you’re going to get punched in the gut, and you’re not really going to know how to handle it. There definitely days I don’t know if you can empathize with this, where I get up I’ve got, I can’t even tell you how many windows I got open, I probably got 50 windows open. And I just look at the screen. I’m like, I don’t know what the heck I’m gonna do today. I know there’s a lot that I need to do. But I don’t even know what I’m going to do.

Mark 44:12
I’m in that I think is one of the hardest things to do as an entrepreneur because as an employee, you already have the structure set up, you already know exactly what you have to do. Because your boss tells you what to do. Or you’re Yeah, you’re a certain function. But as an entrepreneur, you’re creating something from nothing, you are not only molding the clay, you’re creating the clay with which to mold. And the again, the skills that you learn from that I think make you really resilient to a lot of the challenges that we’re going to be facing that are guaranteed to come, you know, to hit you in the face in the coming years.

Josh 44:46
That’s a good point. I’m glad you mentioned that. Because when you do become an entrepreneur, that’s exactly the case you have all these things that need to be done can be done. It’s like oh, what do I even focus on? What’s funny man is I did not struggle with that too much as a web designer, because I had deadlines, and I had clients who were pushing me. So it was almost like, they were my mini bosses for for a time within constraints and limitations. But when I went full time, Josh Hall CO, there was an overwhelming like, I thought I was gonna feel free as a bird and be excited about working on this piece of content, the exact opposite happen, then I was like, What’s wrong with me, I can’t enjoy this, because I was awesome.

Josh 45:28
But I immediately felt overwhelmed. Like, oh my gosh, I have so much I need to do and want to do. And now I don’t even know where to start. And it was interesting. And I think this is this will help at this point. There’s a reason I’m saying this. I had limitations. And I you know, I didn’t think about this, I should have said this early on. Josh Hall CO was an after hours entrepreneur venture before I went full time with it. And before I started scaling my agency, so I get this, I’ve lived this. What I realized is I got a lot done. And I felt almost better about launching this endeavor.

Josh 46:00
The first couple years, it was about a year and a half part time or knows couple years, part time. Because I had limitations. Like I only had so many hours, I could work on jobs hold co because I had client work and I other stuff. So I had to get done what I could get done in those hours. And it almost helped me prioritize tasks and do what I absolutely had to do. So I’ve had to kind of remind myself of that. I have to get my I have to get myself deadlines. And I have to give myself priority type of lists on like, Okay, here’s everything I want to do. This is the list I need to do within this certain amount of time, this is the list I would like to do. This is the stuff that can wait a little farther out like that is key. If I can give you any advice on how to handle that.

Josh 46:43
That was key for me deadlines, and priority. It was really those two things because that was the only thing that got me through that overwhelming feeling of like I have so much to do. I don’t even know where to start. I think everyone’s been there, especially when you get really busy. But those are the keys deadlines priority. I hope that helps everyone. Because whether it’s a side hustle whether it’s full time job, though those are key when somebody is not pushing you and telling you what to get done. You have to tell yourself what to get done. Which is tough, isn’t it? Like I hate I hated having a boss. So that’s why I love being an entrepreneur. And then suddenly I realized crap, now I have to be my own boss.

Mark 47:19
It sounds easy until you’re actually living it and doing it. But it’s, it’s really fulfilling to to see that I created this. And you know, again, it’s kind of funny, as I continue down my journey as I continue to interview after hours entrepreneurs like yourself. It’s just, it’s just really inspiring to see all these common denominators and the things that all these great creators are doing and entrepreneurs are doing. But one thing I find that they all have in common and just kind of segue because like, I feel like I keep talking about this on every episode is is the community they build around themselves or they community they join, whether that’s a mastermind community, whether that’s a membership committee.

Mark 48:00
We talked about I think SPI pro Pat Flynn’s community the other day, yeah, yeah, yep. And, you know, it’s something I think about a lot too, because you are the average of the people you spend the most time with. And if you go into your main job, and you’re in you’re working with a bunch of employees that have a different mindset, not a bad mindset, but a different mindset, you go home, you talk to your spouse, who really has no idea what the hell you’re talking about when you’re talking about algorithms and stuff. When you talk to your kids or your friends, they want to talk about football.

Mark 48:28
It’s like, who are the people that are actually going to help you kind of see the next move, see that next step? Because it’s often time it’s not very obvious. It’s kind of it’s kind of cool, actually, that we’re talking at this time. Right in the middle right in the middle where I’m revamping my website. We talked about that a lot on our last episode, but revamping the website revamping messaging, all the social media platforms. And I think that as you continue to grow, you learn more about yourself, you you you learn from experts, like yourself, you start applying, you start just taking action now. And and then like you said, learning, learning, learning learning mistake, mistake mistake. And that’s a really hard thing to, to kind of absorb.

Mark 49:14
I don’t want to I don’t want to I’m kind of jumping around a lot here. But I just want to highlight something that I read. A couple years ago, early in my journey, I was reading Tim Ferriss book, The Four Hour Workweek, which great books all about outsourcing and freeing up your time. But there was a point he made in there about entrepreneurship and that’s that you need to get comfortable with discomfort. And he had some different examples of how you can get comfortable with discomfort but one of the examples was, every time you pull out your wallet to pay for something, ask for a discount. And I will tell you, it is very discomforting to ask for that discount the first time but guess what, after you ask once twice, three times a you start getting discounts but b it becomes easier and easier to implement that so anyway, I kind of jumped around a lot there but.

Josh 50:00
Well, something you hit on there, which is really important. Well, a lot of things, they were really important. But when it comes to side hustling in particular, it is extremely lonely. And entrepreneurship is lonely anyway. But when you are side hustling thing, often it’s extra lonely, because your time is limited. So you may not have as much time to invest in certain groups or whatever. But I would say, it’s equally as important to make time during your after hours time to surround yourself with somebody in your industry, whether that is a free Facebook group, or like I have a web design club.

Josh 50:38
It’s a we were a little bit below, I was a little bit late for our call today, because I was in my web design club, doing it live coaching call q&a, those type of places are key, because it will be extra lonely as a side Hustler, like you said, you have a full time job, they’re not going to know and they’re not going to be in the same mindset as you unless they may have a similar side hustle to which in which case, make friends with that person. That is that can be a key relationship, you have a shared similar ground, but most people in the corporate world are not going to share the entrepreneurial struggles that you will go through as a side hustler.

Josh 51:10
So I can’t back you up in that enough mark, that is absolutely 100% key, I would say do that immediately. Do get into something, whether it’s free or paid. Surround yourself with people who are like minded because it will help you change your mindset, it will you will learn from them, you will grow from them, you will get confidence from them, you will be empowered. That is key. So I love that you said that I was gonna mention a later on, but I love excited because it is really, really important. There’s no reason to go it alone nowadays. Well, this will come out in 2022 There’s no reason to go alone in 2022.

Mark 51:43
I don’t I don’t think you can we talk about this all the time, socially, if this is the most interconnected we’ve ever been as human beings, but also sometimes feels like it’s most separated we’ve ever been as human being. So really, I mean, we’ll just say that as I put together my priorities for 2022. Being throughout your being part of some sort of mentorship or mastermind community is definitely at the top of that list. Not that I’m not involved with any communities now I certainly am. But being much more, I guess thoughtful about being is something that I think is going to help move me from this. From this walking to this running phase of, of the business.

Josh 52:25
I feel I forget if I talked about this when you had me on your show, but I more recently I’ve I’ve learned and discovered that the biggest strides I’ve made in business and in life are when I have somebody beside me who’s in a similar realm that you know, they’re pushing me I’m pushing them below me that I can teach and it fires me up sharing experience and it gives me life helping people very importantly somebody above me who is teaching me lessons that I don’t know yet or that I haven’t had the mindset for yet.

Josh 52:58
Recently I joined a mastermind group which one of my close colleagues put together and suddenly I’m in I’m in with people who are like tripling and quadrupling the sales that I have and the suddenly I’m like well wow, you know, I like Yeah, you never want to be the biggest fish in the pond. I think it’s really true I think it’s really important to have people above you that are making you you know plush and showing you things that are expanding your mind again beside you and then below you as well. I don’t mean below like as a person below but I mean like they’re just not they might be in the beginning of their business and maybe you’re a few years in you have a lot to share with them. So I just wanted to make that known because I think it’s really important even as a side Hustler, you can still get into those types of groups or, or forums. So I love that man.

Josh 53:40
Well, Mark Mark, we’re getting close on an hour here. I have one final question for you. I’m really curious about that we can take some time on but where would you like people to go to connect with you? Do you want them to listen to the actual after hours entrepreneur podcast? You want them to go to your website? Of course we’ll have it all linked. Where would you like people to go after listen to this?

Mark 53:57
Yeah, so you could definitely go to Mark spot me.com A couple weeks ago, I was chatting with this great web designer, his name is Josh Hall. And he said Mark, what we’re gonna need to do is we need to create your landing page and that’s got to be the trunk of your website that’s the tree trunk of your website and then off that you’re gonna have branches the various offerings so my friends by the time you’re listening to this, I’ve executed this wise advice you go to Mark spot me calm to to be involved with podcast production. Yeah, baby.

Josh 54:25
Awesome. Well, I’ll link that I’ll link the episode I was on for the Sooners. Yeah, we had some fun and you actually did a visual. We did some screen sharing you put me on the spot with basically a website review that I was not prepared for but I think some of the not prepared questions are the best because they’re real and they’re not super thought out or planned out. So yeah, I’ll definitely link that it was really fun to take a look at your site and and to give you some some tips there. My last question for you mark.

Josh 54:50
Sorry, you might hear my daughter going wild outside my door the joys of being a stay at home entrepreneur. What is it going to take? I’m just going to be straight up transparent with you. I want to know what is Is it going to take for you to go full time? With Mark savant media? What would it take? We’ve already talked about the apprehensions of economic landscapes and stuff, but practically, is it? Do you want to, you know, pass your income now, with savant media to feel comfortable is there you have to share exact numbers, but what would it take to go full time with x? I think that’ll be encouraging for anyone else who’s, you know, getting close to going full time?

When you’re supporting a family, not only do you have to provide for your own plate, you have to provide for two or three other plates at the same time, which is a unique situation. – Mark

Mark 55:24
A lot, if so, a lot a lot there. And, you know, one of things I want to point out is, you know, being an entrepreneur, Dad myself, that comes with its own set of challenges. I look at these 20 year olds who are building businesses by themselves. No, they don’t have any kids. Maybe they got a girlfriend. I’m like, That. That seems that seems a lot more manageable, you know? Because right now, yeah, because when you’re, you know, when you’re supporting a family, not only do you have to provide for your own plate, you have to provide for two or three other plates at the same time, which is a unique situation I’m in so, um, you know, what the heck, I’ll lay out my 12 month plan.

Mark 55:57
So there we go. My plan is by this, by this time next year that I’ll be only working on podcast production on the podcast production agency, with a community of people that are looking to simplify their podcast production, right. So a little bit, a little bit of two things, which play off each other community and a book of clients. So So that’s the plan. How do we get there? Well, I need to have my goal is to have by this time, next year, five podcasts on autopilot I’m producing, fully producing these five shows on autopilot got a couple right now I’ve got some on and offers, I got some maybes. But the goal here with and I think that’s achievable. I think that’s very achievable based on the systems, the team that I’ve got. So that’s the goal, five clients on autopilot. And additionally, at this time, next year, my wife will be going back to work, she’s a teacher, very important to her that she’s teaching, which also means that I don’t have to absorb as much of the household responsibilities, I would, you know, health insurance and these things. So my plan is to kind of lay it out like that, you know, looking at my unique opportunities, and whatnot. That’s the goal.

Josh 57:11
This is great. Because there does need to be a strategic planning type of process in place, when you’re getting ready to go full time, whether that’s getting ready in like a week or month or whether it’s a year out. I think it’s really, really important.

Mark 57:23
And communicating this with the people that rely on you to Yeah, you know, you can’t just come home from work one day and say, Hey, Ben, I decided to quit my job, I’m just gonna go full time with this side hustle, she’s gonna look at you like, You’re crazy, right? So laying out that that kind of game plan upfront, I think is, is important. In my case, I’m actually laying out the game playing with my boss to the agency owner, because we’re on a different level, you know, our relationship is like that.

Mark 57:48
But the last thing I’ll say this, the last thing that anyone wants is for you to make a life changing decision, like quit your job without letting them know, you know, so I think it’s good to communicate how the plan communicate, and then you can execute now I’ve got a really clear vision. I just need five clients. I’ve already got, you know, a couple and then another couple maybes, I just got to make sure that the systems are in place, I can support the five and then we’re going to be good.

Josh 58:13
Yeah, that’s it’s a confidence booster to when you actually see at work, the worst thing you can do is go full time on something without like, sales. It’s just hoping it works. Having a proven track record and the client base is just luckily for web designers. A lot of folks here listening are doing that part time. And they’re they’re getting ready for that jump to full time. One thing I noticed and look, I went through it to me when I when I sold my agency and I went full time with just hold on Whoa, that all the same thoughts of like, is this the right idea? Like what if people stopped buying my courses? What have ironic went out of content? What if What if

Josh 58:44
What would have what I realized is trying to think of where to take this final thought here without getting into another hour podcast. But what what I realized was, we look the risk because I’ve family too. I’ve got five mouths to feed. I’ve got two little girls, I got a wife and I’m too hungry Golden Retrievers. I have to make it to make sure the numbers added up with that. But I also realized there was so much more potential and opportunity with this at scale that I could do. And I kind of felt like too, personally, and I don’t know if this comes into play with you as like, I felt like this was my passion. I I was not burned out from doing websites. But I missed doing Josh Hall co stuff when I was building websites for clients.

Josh 59:25
I was like, gosh, I want to do that I want to teach people this was my passion. I want to do YouTube video, I want to start a podcast, I wanted to do all these things, making the decision to go full time to be able to do it. If I can just give you any, you know, confidence and encouragement inspiration. It was the most rewarding thing despite the feeling of overwhelm. And despite that feeling of this I had a proven track record that I could do this. My sales increased and increased. I got savvier with delegation and automation and everything we’ve talked about so far, and once I put it into play, then everything just opened up to a whole whole new set of horizon.

Josh 59:58
So hopefully that’s some encouragement. Because sometimes the comforting thing of having a full time job or a salary is often what’s holding you back. And let’s be honest, very rarely are you going to have a salary in a job that you won’t be able to double or triple with a good entrepreneurial year. Well, I had Pat Flynn on the podcast here in Episode 101. thing he told me which was fascinating was he was making like 20 or 25 grand a month selling this little course that he put together, so ebook, but he was still clinging on to a corporate job that was paying $60,000 a year. So it just it you know, like that. But it’s often as easy as looking at that, like, holy crap, what am I doing? Like, can I make triple quadruple 10 times as much with this entrepreneurial endeavor? If I’m not spinning nine to five at this corporate job? Very likely you can. So I’ll end it there.

Josh 1:00:50
But I just wanted to throw that out there. Because I think that’s a mindset shift that a lot of side hustlers need to take on and deal with. And yes, there’s risk. Yes, it’s really important, depending on the family situation to have a plan and a strategy. But, man, the time is now like, it is awesome. Entrepreneurship the landscape right now. I’m just so excited about it. So hopefully, this was encouraging. And hopefully this encourages you to mark I hope you’re, you know, you as much as you advice you gave during this I, you know, hopefully you you take away some stuff from this as well, because I’ve really enjoyed kind of digging into the ins and outs of after hour after hour. entrepreneurialship. Man.

Mark 1:01:25
Yeah, well, it’s just an honor to chat with you here. And I’d love to hear from the audience to listen, if you’ve got any thoughts on the conversation about after hours entrepreneurship, maybe you share some of the same fears that I do. Hit me up, hit me up contact at marks about media.com. Let me know. I’d love to hear from you.

Josh 1:01:41
Beautiful, and I’ll make sure we I leave mitten the link in the intro here so people can leave a comment so you can tell your podcast host man, I love it. I love it. You can always tell when somebody gives me the host code. So, Mark dude, thanks for coming on. Thanks for your time. Thanks for sharing your experience and your transparency through this talk. And I’m really looking forward to keeping track of how the next year goes for you, man.

Mark 1:02:01
Yeah, we’re gonna talk soon, Josh, I am very much into the Josh Hall. Co.

Josh 1:02:05
Sweet. Let’s do it.

 

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