Have you ever met that “established” businessperson who is just a shell of their former selves?
I’m sure you just had a few that came to mind. I know I can recall quite a few.
One of my goals in life, especially when it comes to business, is to NOT be that guy. So, to avoid that, I figure it’s going to take some intentional action.
That’s why I’m so pleased to bring in Lisa Staff onto the podcast.
She’s currently the social media director at Sprout Connectors and has been a business owner / entrepreneur for many years.
In this episode, we chat about the many lessons learned in keeping purpose, connection and energy “alive” in your business year after year.
While this wasn’t the original topic we were going to dive into, that’s definitely where the conversation went. And I love that!
If you’ve listened to the podcast for a while, you probably know that some of the best stuff comes out of tangents or chats about an unrelated topic!
Enjoy this one and take notes from an amazing, established business entrepreneur such as Lisa!
In this episode:
00:00 – Introduction
03:37 – Greeting to Lisa
09:46 – Happiest entrepreneurs
13:22 – How to balance the load
16:01 – Collect & connect people
21:55 – Be authentic
25:45 – It’s not speed dating
29:01 – Keep them coming back
32:28 – The best sales force
34:20 – Think outside the box
37:39 – Helpful, creepy stalker
40:57 – Don’t go to every party
44:43 – Divide and conquer
46:18 – Releasing the death grip
48:23 – Super vigilant schedule
53:42 – Comparing past to present
56:38 – Keeping the fire alive
1:00:28 – Slow down to speed up
Connect with Lisa:
Episode #174 Full Transcription
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Welcome friends into Episode 174, the podcast. So have you ever met a quote unquote established business person who you realize is just kind of a shell of them former selves. I’ve had many run ins with people like this, I’m sure that you’ve had a lot of people that just came to mind. And it’s tragic, because it’s somebody who may be even be fairly successful in business, but they’re just, again, just kind of like a shell, there’s no life, there’s no energy. One of my goals in life, I’ll just be fully transparent with you, especially when it comes to business is to not be that guy. And I figure one of the best ways to avoid that is to take some intentional action.
So I’m really excited to help you avoid this just like myself. And in this episode, I’m really pleased to bring on Lisa staff who is the social media director at a company called Sprout connectors. And she also has a very successful personal brand as a photographer and as an entrepreneur. But she’s been in the business world and an established business owner and an entrepreneur for many years. And in this episode, it was awesome, because we got to chat about a lot of the lessons that she’s learned. And more specifically, avoiding, you know, being a shell of your former self, we talk a lot about purpose and connection and keeping the energy alive in your business year after year after year.
And it was interesting because this wasn’t the original talk. This wasn’t the original topic. But as we really got to chatting, we just really fell into the idea of purpose and connection and, and all these lessons learned with keeping the energy alive in your business. So I’m totally fine with that. If you’ve been listening to this podcast for a while, I feel like you know, some of the best stuff tends to come out when we do have a tangent or we get into some chats that are completely unrelated. And that’s exactly what we did in this episode. Lisa was awesome.
One reason I love doing podcasts is it gives me sometimes the ability to talk with entrepreneurs and business owners who had been at it for a while. And that’s that’s exactly the case we have here with Lisa staff. She was super transparent. She was very real about lessons learned both good and bad and her experience. And I think it’s really going to translate and filter down to you and to help you in your journey as well as you build your web design business and in all of your online entrepreneur endeavors. So we’re not going to waste any more time we’re going to get right into it. Enjoy this conversation with Lisa staff. We’re going to talk purpose connection, and so much more. Enjoy.
Lisa, welcome to the podcast. So great to have you on.
Oh, thanks for having me. I’m excited for this conversation.
Yeah, I really appreciate you taking some time out of your schedule. I know you just got off a long podcast. So I told you, we’re gonna keep this light, we’re gonna have some fun will be a casual chat. But it’s interesting because I do like sometimes bringing people on to this show who are not a web designer or not in web design. You have an interesting background, but I wanted to talk about branding, and what that looks like now in this online digital landscape. And I’d love to hear you know about your experience as well. So maybe we’ll start with that. First off if you’d like to let everybody know where you’re based out of and then Yeah, can you just kind of give us the short version of you know, what you’re doing now and then a little bit of your your experience? That’d be awesome.
Sure. Okay, so um, I’m a Virgo. No. Like windy walks and coffee no. I live in Hilton Head. I’m a transplant from Canada. I moved down here because there was just no sunshine and it was too cold in Canada and love living here in the States.
Where were you at in Canada, by the way.
Outside of Toronto.
Okay, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, well, I’m in Columbus, Ohio and it’s negative to right now at the time of recording this in late January. So I understand wanting to go South.
That’s why I’m living here and I’m I’m that person that the first couple years I was here, people will be walking by with winter coats on and it’s like 50 degrees and you’re like, What’s their problem, and I’m that person now. But that’s okay. So I’ve, I started out as a photographer actually started out in corporate, and then moved on how to career in photography and still do photography, I have my own business. I’ve been doing it for 30 years. So for a long time, there’s been a lot of shifts a lot of changes in that industry, and through that I’ve been able to connect and meet with with different people. And when I branded my my new business about five years ago, I was able to connect with someone else and just kind of collaborate.
And I think, I think the mindset around business has changed when I was doing business 10 years ago, even people didn’t collaborate, they didn’t share they didn’t, you know, hey, this is something that’s that’s sped up our workflow has made this easier, you should try this or try that. Nobody was sharing anything. But in the last few years, I feel like people have been a lot more open to sharing. And through that I was able to connect with someone, someone I literally dropped into my DMs and was in the same business. And we would go back and forth and discuss, you know, what are you doing in this instance, and then through that, we found that people were asking us a lot of things and in branding strategy in social media, and we started a business.
So we have a business called Sprout connectors, where we go into small businesses, we’re not interested in larger businesses, they have their own strategy, branding, media divisions, and all of that. But I think through being small businesses, you kind of see what the pains are through small businesses. Sure, all the things that we’re expected to do now is overwhelming. Like if we spent the time creating our own website, creating our own content, doing all the social media platforms, blogging, doing our paid ads, all of that we wouldn’t be able to do our businesses, it’s it’s really overwhelming.
So we’ve kind of partnered with these small businesses that are trying to make a difference and make an impact and have that momentum to keep going. And we’re helping them out with that. So that’s kind of where I am. And I think a lot of it has come from being collaborative, being a visual person, and then partnering with people that kind of fill in, fill in your weaker spots, so that you can kind of do things that are more more of your strength, if that makes sense. And then clarify for people what they need within their business, because you don’t always need all the things you do always need a good website, I’m telling you that.
Well said for this. Yeah, yeah,
Honestly, honestly. And we have a client, let me just kind of go off off the rails here. But we have a client that literally two days ago, and we’ve been talking to her about her website, it’s older. She has three businesses, it’s older, it needs to be regenerated, it needs some TLC on it, and literally, and they’re putting it off putting it off. Literally two days ago, it got hacked, business was down, they couldn’t figure out they didn’t know how to do it. Things were old. In the end, you know, you’ve probably heard this a million times, like, all of a sudden, they were screeched to a stop, because what do we do in this instance?
Oh, yeah, no, no business understands how important their website is until it goes down. Even if it’s somebody who thinks they have no traffic, suddenly you realize how much traffic you’re getting? Yeah, it is. It’s a great point, Lisa websites, I mean, you couldn’t have set me up for a better segue to talk about how important websites are, especially now. I mean, is your online presence, everything funnels to your website. And it’s really important to own it, it’s really important to keep it up to date, like you just talked about.
So it’s kind of one reason I’m so passionate about teaching web design now and helping these listeners and everyone watching to be able to have a successful web design business and help clients because everyone needs it. And especially in the wake of the pandemic, now that we’re almost two years into it, that has really expedited, the urgency for websites of businesses weren’t yet online. So yeah, it’s it’s it’s definitely really important.
It’s interesting, too, that you, you hit on a really interesting subject, which is kind of a term that I like to call cooperation, where, or coopetition, excuse me, where you’ve got competitors, but you want to cooperate with them, and you want to partner up and there is more sharing of knowledge now than ever, which I think is awesome. It’s how I built my business. And let’s let’s start there. I have found that people who share the most in the people who are most open and transparent about what they’ve learned and what they do, they tend to have the most fulfilling day to day life as a as a business. Have you seen that as well? Like, I guess I say, it seems like the happiest entrepreneurs and business owners I know, are the ones who are really open and not they don’t hold tight to what they know or afraid to share their experience. Have you seen that as well?
I think yeah, there’s there’s a couple of facets to that. I think too. I totally agree, I think you, when you’re holding tight to that, that whole scarcity, like having scarcity with money having scarcity, there’s a vibe that comes off of that, too. You’re not open, you have a different persona, because you’re not willing to give those things and thus, you’re not as valuable to people. We were just in a meeting this morning, actually, this is really good timing. We were in a meeting this morning with one of our clients that is trying to step into something that’s another part of her business and has great potential and she’s got this momentum going. But before she’s doing any of those things, and making any of these decisions, she’s scheduled a meet and greet for her think tank.
You can really shine. You can collaborate, you can contribute to the conversation. – Lisa
So this think tank, it has my partner myself in it, it has a fantastic audio visual person, and it has someone from a big agency in it, that have all contributed to her. And there’s crossover and all of that, like within our business. We we do branding, we do video, we do stills, we like content creation, we help with with website design, and and all of that. I don’t personally do website design. So you don’t need partners. Yeah. But but it wasn’t, it wasn’t like, Oh, this is competitive. This was like sharing. And there’s certain things that are our strengths. And there’s certain things that are other people’s strengths. And you can really shine. You can collaborate, you can contribute to the conversation, you can help steer it to what you think is going to be the most advantageous to her.
But us coming in and not being open to any of that would have had no benefit for any of us. And then you create these, these relationships to that. I can’t tell you whether it’s been through podcasting, whether it’s been through collaborating with people, these relationships have increased our business, not just financially but like just our mindset, the things that we have learned through doing that. So yeah, it’s a win win.
Yeah, it does happen like that. So we’re just laughing, we just got cut off, you had mentioned, you might have some Wi Fi troubles with where you are right now. But I feel bad because it cut you off on such a good thought we were talking about, I guess, a term or a quote that might sum up what you were saying is iron sharpens iron. So you’re surrounding yourself in network, we networking with amazing business owners and partners. And it really does make you adjust your mindset. I’ve found one thing that’s interesting is, I started my business completely alone. And I did everything, the hard way and the wrong way. And a lot of lessons learned I felt quite lonely.
And when you’re a business owner, I’m sure you had backed me up and saying this, Lisa, you can be very lonely. When you are running your own business and being an entrepreneur, when you surround yourself with a network or a community, it really is incredibly empowering in every facet of life in business. What I’m curious about from your perspective is when you identify your strengths, and you know what you should be focusing on, you want to, you know, have somebody to take the rest off? How do you know whether to partner up with somebody and just send them that work? Or bring them as a part of your team? Do you have any factors that can help you decide, you know, what you just refer out as opposed to what you might want to take on internally in your business?
Well, I think when you’ve been in your own business for a long time, like you said, you’re wearing all the hats, you’re you’re holding on with a death grip to a lot of things, it’s hard to kind of pry your fingers off of those things. So sometimes it’s like, it’s like dipping your toe in that pool. It’s like starting a slow relationship and, and and seeing when they understand what you’re through in a specific interviews. They understand what your small corporate culture is. And they pass certain tests or jump through certain hoops that you’re like, Okay, you did this really well. And I love, I love the tenacity that you have, I love the energy that you have, I love the work ethic that you have, then you can start to start to feed them more things.
But I think there’s you still have to keep your finger on the pulse. And it’s not like I’m OCD about any of that. But you know, the buck stops with you. And you don’t want to ever be in a position where you don’t have an understanding or you’re not sure where that certain silo stands, that if that person decided to walk away on you that you would be dead in the water. So there’s there’s a balancing act to that too. There’s that’s a great point having that knowledge.
That’s, that’s very, hadn’t happened before. Oh, sure. It
Happened before and you’re like, Okay, well, we’ve got to pick up all those pieces and try to put it back together. So
And look as a web design agency owner I’ve I and I’ve seen I’ve seen this in my own business. I’ve seen other students and stuff who have scaled in they’ll take on a partner to take on this one. service. And then yeah, if they bail or they leave for any reason, suddenly, they don’t know anything about it, you’re in a really, really tricky spot. So I think that’s a good rule of thumb that if you are going to take on a role or a service in your business, even if you’re not going to be the one doing it, you at least know the basics or have a plan for the what ifs, what if something happens? How are you going to rebound from that?
And then I think that’s where it’s pretty powerful to be able to completely just refer things. I’ve always gone by the motto of if it’s something you’re interested in, and it can be profitable, and it can really help your clients then you might want to take it on in your business. But if it’s something that maybe is ancillary, then maybe just partner up with somebody or hire it out. And but it really all goes back to, you know, building that network and growing community around you. How did you do that? Practically? Were you involved in professional organizations and business? I know you have a photography background, like how did you start building your network of professionals that became sounds like a really important core for you?
I think it’s changing your mindset, too, right? I live in a small community, and I’m getting out there and connecting with people through and it’s funny, like through COVID, everybody was like, Oh, it’s okay. You know, I don’t mind being alone. But it does change your vibe, it changes your energy level. And when you’re out there, and you’re connecting with people, and you’re, you’re learning, you’re growing, you’re vibing, all those great things. That’s when you’re making an impression. And that’s when you’re having those conversations that you’re you’re kind of pulling things, you’re you’re creating your own community around that for people that you can refer, they’re referring people to you, and you have those experiences.
We have that through podcasting, we’ve had the greatest opportunity to meet people that you’re like, we kind of know about this, but we have a client that could really use your services and that sort of thing. And just being a connector, I think, not being afraid to, to not be the head of everything to be able to, you know, give that leadership over to other people. I have a partner that he’s created certain things, I’m great at other things, and kind of understanding where your strengths and weaknesses are, and filling those things in and just, you know, we’re two more one meet or whatever they say, right? Yeah, we’ve become better as we, as we collaborate together, and we have those ideas.
So I think that’s been it just kind of being we say that we’re people collectors, and we just, you know, be, we’re able to call the people that we don’t want in our lives as much and collect those people that are beneficial to us in so many ways. And that sounds like you’re a real user, but you’re not you’re just you’re you’re creating those relationships that you don’t know where it’s gonna go. But it’s, that’s a benefit.
It’s a really important point. You said some a little bit ago that I want to bring up here, which is being a connector. And I’ve learned there is such power in being a connector with with different people. I actually learned this when I joined a networking group, I was a local networking group that I went to once a week. And at first I dreaded it, I was like, I don’t want to commit to something weekly, like how’s it gonna help grow my business, I’m gonna have to like bug my friends and family to work with other people. But it was the complete opposite of what I feared it was. It was just what you’re talking about. It was empowerment. It was like, I felt like I was a part of these, this awesome group of people who all had their own networks. And then suddenly, from a selfish point of view, I became their trusted web designer. So it became over 50% of my business at one point and all the referrals that I got.
But more importantly, I had a trusted group of people that I was connected to who could handle pretty much anything for anyone I knew. So if somebody had a question about, like, they need a realtor, I had a realtor. In this case, if somebody needed a chiropractor, I knew a chiropractor. If somebody had questions about any name, it is an automotive guy in there, like I was able to be a connector for so many people, and it elevates your trust, I feel like when you have a lot of connections, and you have people to refer to and for the people, you know, you become their best friend because they know that you’re gonna be open and willing to help grow their business and they’re gonna return the favor.
So I just think it’s really important whether it’s in person in a networking group or in a chamber of commerce or community, or whether it’s digital, it sounds like you guys have done a lot of digital networking. You mentioned is it debo Is that is that your partner Devo as well, yeah, so he so DMS there I mean, gosh, I have a I have a membership where I have a bunch of web designers and talk about like networking online one on one it’s been incredible to this this community of connectors that we have now. It’s so there’s so many benefits to it, though.
So I love that we’re talking about this. I might have to read him the title of this episode. We’re really talking a lot about purpose and connection. But I think it’s really important which Brandon could factor into this but I love that you’re talking about that because I think now would you would you agree with me in saying that? Now that they’re we’re in this we’re in different world now, everyone’s online, everyone’s used to being alone a little more. Your sounds like you’re in a place where there still may be a lot of in person stuff going on. But a lot back up in your homeland in Canada, it’s a lot of it’s shut down so that you have to have online community more now than ever. Would you agree and say I mean, offline?
Absolutely. But absolutely. So you’re talking about you, you basically created your own specific mastermind, you vetted everyone. But you can do that on social media as well. It just takes that it’s like going to a networking meeting, you can’t stand in the corner with your glass of wine and just watch everyone and not communicate, you still need to make that step and step out. And you can do that through your social media, when you were talking about the importance of your website. Yes, if we’ve, if we’ve been talking about social media, and all the things that we should be doing on all those platforms, we also know that we don’t own those platforms. If anything happens, there goes our business.
So we need to Yes, social media is important. But we need to feed that back to our website, we need to feed it back to us somehow. And you do that by communicating and how are you going to communicate? How are you going to show up? So if we’re speaking to our clients, we help them with their brand message. And that needs to come across just like if you were going to that networking meeting. How are you? Did you go into your network meeting like sell, sell, sell like a car salesman, and here I am?
Or do you go in there and you’re easy to connect with, you’re easy to have a conversation with you’re providing, you’re providing advice for free or you’re some value, this is what I’d suggest in this situation, you can do exactly the same on social media. So how you’re showing up whether it’s in your stories, if you’re doing Instagram, whether it’s in your feed, whether you’re giving offers, you’re going to do exactly the same thing as you would do when you’re speaking to your neighbors or a friend is referred to you by someone and you just you just wholeheartedly gave them some help and some advice and create that relationship.
I love that is this is tricky. It’s a great point and a great topic because I’ve always I’ve been, I try to be the same everywhere. I’m pretty authentic and transparent and real. But I’ve always struggled with social media, and I’m only on Facebook and Instagram, and I just recently started Instagram. But I’ve always struggled a little bit. I feel like I come across a little salesy sometimes if I promote stuff on Facebook, or social media for whatever reason.
So I’ve intentionally tried to just be more helpful and just give you know, I’m doing more free, like webinars and master classes and free resources that are going to bring people in. And if they want to join my courses and join my club eventually awesome, but I’m really trying to keep that first impression and public touch points. I’m trying to keep those just helpful. And I’ve learned something over the past couple years, which is to have more of a serve, oversell mentality. Have you seen that play out for you guys and a lot of your clients as well, especially now that serving goes a lot further than saying, Hey, I’ve got this for 99 bucks or whatever.
And that’s, that’s super cringy isn’t it when you’re when you’re going on on any sort of social media and everyone’s like, you can make a million dollars, I only work two hours a week. And this is what you do just sign up for this course. And you can be a millionaire too. And you’re just like, oh my gosh, is coming at me from all angles. And if that makes you feel cringy if you’re doing the exact same thing. You’re you’re following followers are going to just be unfollowing you it’s good point, I have a lot of my own personal Instagram and I don’t have a huge Instagram, I put as much time into it as I can afford and do my business. So I have a little over 20,000 That’s not a lot. That’s not a lot. There’s people that have millions and stuff.
But I have a community on there. And I’ll have a lot of instances where you’re, you’re you’re putting things out there and you’re like, I don’t know, it’s falling flat. I just don’t. And you speak to somebody that maybe six months later, they’re like, Yeah, I saw this on your Instagram. Like, why didn’t comment or like, you know, that Uncle algorithm. But that’s what happens. Like, I’ll have people that they’ve been following me for a couple years and then they book. It’s a slow sell.
You’re putting that value out there, you’re bringing those people in, you probably have a sales funnel newsletter that goes out to them and gives them some quick tips and here’s what’s going on in our world right now. – Lisa
Sometimes it’s not that immediate, like if you’re putting out an ad and someone’s responding to it right away. And we have discussions with our clients because they want to know what’s the ROI was the KPI, whatever, you know, where am I going to see the financial retribution of me putting all of this out there. But it doesn’t always happen the way you want it to happen. You can’t always really visualize it. But it does need to go hand in hand with all the things that you were talking about. You’re putting that value out there, you’re bringing those people in, you probably have a sales funnel newsletter that goes out to them and gives them some quick tips and here’s what’s going on in our world right now. If you want to join us in this, you know, it’s friendly, it’s not pushy and people will follow sometimes they follow for a week sometimes they follow for a year before they push that button and make that sale.
That is a great point. I’m so glad you said said that. Lisa, that that is I’m going to take we’re going to take that out and clip that because that is a really great really important message to remember that it is going to often take multiple touchpoints in multiple times of seeing you and interacting before potentially leading to a sell. But I found that sometimes that breeds the best type of clients and customers, because there’s already a much deeper level of trust and authority there. I would rather somebody listened to this podcast for a year, and then join a course. And then us have a really strong relationship together, rather than somebody seeing an ad of mine, buying it and then bailing, and then I never hear from them again, I’d much rather have the high touch into, you know, really committed type of student in my case. So I think it’s really important.
It’s like dating, isn’t it?
You know, it’s not speed dating. We’re gonna go out, we’re gonna go on a few dates, we’re gonna date a little bit more. And before you pop that question, you know, I’m gonna need to get to know you first. Yeah, and you know what? We’re not getting married yet.
Right? Look, and that’s a great point in sales, because and I, when I was early in my journey, I said yes to every opportunity, I could. But as every entrepreneur knows, it doesn’t take too long before you start saying no way more than you say. Yes. So it when it comes to getting clients, yeah, if you say yes, immediately, and they say, yes, they may not be a good fit at all, they may be a terrible fit for what you have to offer, they may just not be a good personality type to work with. Like, there’s so many important things to consider when it comes to taking your time with with good clients.
And the cool thing about this case for web designers as we don’t need as web designers that many clients, we don’t need to sell something every day. Usually, most of my students, if they can get over 20 to 25 clients, that’s enough for a good healthy six figure income for them and their website business. And if you want to stay small, and scale at a small level, you can stick right there a ticket that rain, so it takes a lot of pressure off of selling constantly, when you have a higher value type of service. So that’s something to consider too, right? Like, if I was selling T shirts, it’s probably going to take a whole different marketing approach than if I have a service business that is recurring. And I only need a couple dozen clients to live the life of freedom that I want to live.
But that’s exactly it, isn’t it, it’s creating that relationship, it’s easier to create that relationship that fits that you’re aligned, and then that relationship continues through. And it’s easier to do that it might be slower. But it’s easier to do that. And then you’re not constantly trying to resell to someone new, you’re spending your time on that relationship, and they’re going to be customers for life, they’re going to be coming back to you six months a year, whatever, your their touch point for all of it, and they’re not going to shop around because you have taken the time to create that relationship, as opposed to spending all your time out there with that, what is that that sandwich board walk in the street trying to sell your wares? Like?
That’s exhausting. And those people a lot of times, you know, you can sift through them, because they’re just looking for something quick and easy. And then they’re gonna go by, they might not see all the intricacies and all the speciality of what you do what makes you so unique and fantastic at what you do, and how you how you treat your clients and your customers and have customers for life. They’re gonna miss out on that.
What are some of the tips you have for creating customers for life? You just mentioned a little bit about offering them more value, getting them to come back, but from maybe just basic business principles. This is one thing that I regret looking back at my decade of being a web designer and having a lot of good clients in that is that I kept looking for new business more than I focused on my current client base. And I had amazing clients, I’ve still got some lifetime clients. But I definitely wish I would have reinvested more in my current client base and just offered more value to them, rather than keeping an eye on new clients all the time. What’s some of your advice for doing that? Is it a mindset shift? Are there any practical things that you’ve seen work for you guys with just you know, really keeping your current client base happy and keeping them coming back?
I think a lot of what you’ve said really, you know, strikes home to me as well, I think when we started our business, we’re really hungry. And I’ve had my photography business again, for like 30 years, I’ve just rebranded it. So that’s something that that can kind of still sustain and it runs but this new business that we started, we made a mistake not too long ago where we took on a client because we were just like, oh, this is great. And we could really make a difference in this. And we we knew we were totally aligned. And we’re like, Can we can we write content for this client in that voice? Can we show up the way can we keep making these changes to our, our workflow in our system that we have that we’ve already proved to know works well. Can we keep doing these things that disrupt it, and we were just excited to be a part of it.
And I think you need to, again, do that slow dating, make sure that you are aligned in all the ways so that you can show up the best way that you can, and sometimes you’re just not the best fit and it’s the easier to kind of put your finger on that at that time and just say, you know, I don’t think we’re going to align in this way I have someone else that I would I know would would probably be a better fit for you and just save yourself the long hours, the back and forth the frustration. And that way, you know, it’s easier to come out and be 100% satisfied with what you’ve done and have them 100% satisfied with what you’ve done.
That’s a great point, going back to them
Gonna come, money is always gonna come, it’s always gonna flow. And I know you need to learn those things to improve. There’s some things that are harder, harder lessons, yes. But sometimes you just need to make sure that you’re aligning, do that slow sell, and fit and feel like you are actually you respect that person, they respect you, and you’re giving them the value that you need. And in that instance, too, don’t we all win, we love who we’re working with. And not to say that you’re going to give things away for free or whatever. But you come to the table 110%, you show up and you’re thinking about them, hey, you know, I just came up with this really great idea, I want to put it pasture, I think this would be really good, you’re energized by them. And they’re energized by you.
That’s so great. And particularly in web design, the goal is to get lifetime clients that I teach all my students, you do not want a one and done type situation, you want to have them be your client for as long as they need you. And as we’ve already articulated, websites are more important than ever, business owners need a web guy or web gal, they need them, they need a even if it’s a small team to be in their corner. So the opportunity for a lifetime, a client that’s recurring income is there. But you said it, you have to make sure they’re aligned with you. Because the last thing you want is to have a client that wants to, you know, work with you every month every year, but then you’re just completely on aligned with their vision, what they need. And that can be really tricky for a lot of web designers if they don’t know what they do, and they don’t understand or really have put too much thought and what they want to provide.
So those that’s a really good point there at least. And it’s exciting to I mean, how are you excited by the landscape of entrepreneurialship and business now, despite all the things that are going on, I personally think that there is more opportunity than ever, for anyone who wants to help out businesses exceed and grow online. Do you? Are you feeling that as well? Yeah. And
I think is well, there’s always that, when you’re in your own business, you’re always like, what if the phone stops ringing, but it never stops ringing, it always happens. And if you have created those client relationships that we’ve talked about, they’re going to have just like you and your networking group, they’re going to tell their friends about the great experience that you’ve had, they’re your best sales force right there.
I think as well, like, as far as photography goes, you know, anyone can pick up their their phone, my phone’s over there, anyone could pick up their phone and take a fabulous picture. You know, there’s there’s things online that you can create your own website, you can get on there, you can create it. So people get, you know, scared about that, or their scarcity around that. But there’s a difference. And you want those people that are your clients be the ones that know, there’s a difference between taking a picture on iPhone and creating content, and that comes through, maybe you’ve done a brand discovery with them. And they didn’t even realize these are points in my business that I didn’t even realize this is my mission statement. I haven’t been doing that. I haven’t, you know, created the buckets and silos in my business that I should be doing.
You know, there’s a strategy behind that all that strategy comes out in content creation, in branding, and website design. So when you are not a one and done something off the internet with no personal contact, or someone that they’re creating relationship with. There’s that big difference there.
I guess you kind of answered the question I was going to ask you but my next question was going to be how do you not become a commodity as a web designer or an online consultant strategist? It sounds like really putting all those pieces together there helps us become not the Wix builds your site for $1 a day kind of thing. Are there any other thoughts of helping us become much more than just a web designer or just a digital marketer or whatever it might be?
I think when you’re thinking outside of the box constantly, like what can I do to improve what you know? Have that mindset that you’re not feeling like you’re always on that hamster wheel and you’re just running to standstill? So what can you do that is different? What what do you bring to the table that would be different than something that is coming out of the box? What can you provide in relationships with people in thought, thoughts, seed for them, anything that’s different and is going to align you and keep you thriving and what you’re doing as well? Because, you know, I’ve been doing photography for 30 years. I’ve done millions of families millions of You know, lifestyle shots, whatever, why do I keep doing it, there has to be something in there that still sets you a light. And those things are contagious to your clients as well.
What so what sets you in do your partner apart from some of your competition right now even though we’re all we’ve already talked about coopetition and, you know, being sharing our knowledge and stuff, but what would you say separates you guys from from other businesses that are, you know, similar in regards to like strategy and everything that you guys are doing?
I would like to think it’s the, the thoughts that we put into it, we, we will take the time to actually come in and develop a strategy with you, and really alter that strategy, really go through the analytics, make changes, and really, we’re very strategic about who we align with, because we’re basically in bed with them, if you want to say that you’re thinking about them all the time, you’re spending a lot of time. So in order for us to be able to have that relationship, we have to really be invested in you and they’re invested in us.
So I think a lot of that is, is that personal, having that personal sort of coaching, if you want to say, and coming to the table with thoughts, not just being an order taker, but coming to the table with, here’s some things that we think might mean, we might not do this yet. Let’s build to work, maybe that’s in six months, we think this is something that we could be doing, and just provide something that’s going to be evaluated, just like you’re saying, like you’re putting things out there that are teaching leading, guiding, providing value.
That’s well said. And for everyone listening watching right now what Lisa just said, that’s your answer to the clients who asked you what’s different about you than these other web designers? Because all of my students, I’ve helped prepare them to answer that as quickly as possible. Because you will get that question clients, if they haven’t already, they’re going to want to know what’s different about you, then than everybody else. So that’s a really, that’s a great way to frame that. Because you the word you said there that stuck out to me is relationship, particularly for web designers.
When you get a client it is a relationship that is should take years and hopefully last decades and a lifetime and for whatever the web web world is going to become in the next 10 to 15 years. So I love that least I love your I definitely love your approach. I can tell it’s much more organic. And probably I would say like results oriented. Do you feel that in your business? Do you guys really strive for like solution? Bait like when you’re talking with clients, and it actually comes to Okay, getting them to sign up? Do you talk about solutions and the results that you guys want to hit to help absolutely articulate the services and stuff?
And we go through a monthly at the end of the month we do a report what’s working, what’s not how we want to shift how we want to change. And a lot of it too is an I don’t know if this is from becoming from being a photographer for so long, then I’m a bit of a creepy stalker. So sometimes people think that you’re just sitting and not really sometimes you’re listening. You’re taking everything in, you’re watching people and then you come back and you say, you don’t realize this, but this is really a strength or a forte, we need to push that you need to be in front of the camera, talk about what you love what you’re doing and all those things. So sometimes it’s kind of pushing people to, to do the things that you know that they’re they’re going to show up better and as well.
So you’re actually a stalker. Yeah, good. Helpful. creepy stalker. Yeah, that’ll be the that’ll be the subtitle and your name for this episode, for sure. So with that come that comes into play when you’re coaching, right? Like, like you said, with your clients. There’s a coaching aspect, it sounds like so I imagine for you guys, for sure. But even for my audience, it’s our job to when we’re working with clients kind of help them potentially find their strengths and put those out online. Is that fair to say? Like
Absolutely amazing waves and because we were just speaking to our client about the website that went down and everything they were talking about this website people would go to and they just they were confused. What do you do? What do you do? So it’s helping them to to align and and streamline those things. And I think people need help with it right now too, because of the short amount of attention span that people have the digestible, I can take five seconds of content and then I’m going to stream to the next one. So that’s an issue and being able to align with people that know that here’s a way that you could show up and we can help you do that and it’s not you’re not gonna have to wear yoga pants. You’re not going to be half naked in a bikini. We can do it another way. Yeah, need to dance you find.
And that’s what that’s what’s that’s goes back to the the idea of like the the opportunities now with just the online world is you can pick a marketing strategy and whatever platform that suits you and your personality. I’ve chose podcasting because shocker, I like to talk about stuff and I like to get in the details in the weeds of stuff so I can have an hour and an hour and have conversation. And people hang around the whole time. And it’s awesome. It suits me. That’s kind of why I’ve struggled with social media sometimes I can’t barely talk about anything in under three minutes.
So it’s really hard for me to do those short little videos on social media, though, I’m trying to integrate that as just a very quick like the first, you know, surface, the funnel kind of thing. The other aspect for me that I’ve included in my business are YouTube videos, which are more tutorials, explainer videos and things that I could get across visually in 1015 minutes or so. So that’s, that’s what’s worked for me. I have never signed up with Tik Tok or logged in, I have no interest or plan with that may change one day, but I don’t know, we’ll see. I don’t have a Twitter like there’s all these other platforms, and even LinkedIn, I know the power of that. But I just don’t have the bandwidth for that right now. But that’s the cool thing nowadays is you don’t have to be everywhere for everyone. What are your thoughts on that? I mean, I’m sure you have to have your clients do this, right.
Yeah, I think you need to find your tribe, and speak to those people in the way that you’re going to show up the best. Some of our clients are out there doing amazing their thought leaders, they’re out working with large corporations doing amazing teaching, training, all of that, them showing up on tic tac tic tock dancing, in scantily clad, that’s never, that’s not their clientele, they’re not going to be there. And it’s okay not to show up there. You don’t need to show up for every party.
But just like you’re showing up for your podcast, you’re showing up 100%, you’re showing up in a meaningful way that supports your brand. And I think you just need to figure out where you’re going to align. And just do that, instead of just, I’m the type of person that I would rather have a smaller group of really close friends than a million people that are just kind of acquaintances, and you never really have a deeper conversation with. So figure out how you want to align with people and then follow that direction.
And it kind of goes back to what you said earlier with your subscriber base, what was like 20,000, or whatever, which is a great number. But yeah, compared to some other people have dude, maybe 20 million or two, whatever it is, I have faced that all the time, because what I’m doing is a much more high touch intensive type of coaching and teaching with a lot of my students, I have colleagues who have 1000s of students and hundreds of 1000s of subscribers. And part of me thinks like, Should I try to get to that big scale level, but what I found is I actually love having my tribe, which is my web design community. And then my core students who are in my courses, it’s a much more manageable and personal type of approach, which fits me because I feel the same.
I would much rather have 100 people in my in my sphere that I that I know and that I’m close with, and that I’m keeping track of their businesses, and I’m helping then 100,000 Who I don’t know any names, and I don’t know what the impact is. And I think that that’s shifted in business now. And in a lot of ways, I think a lot of people are going for quality over quantity. And again, and I don’t know how big your customer base is, or how big you guys plan to grow. But as web designers, we don’t need everyone that needs a website. We just need a couple dozen who need us and we jive with, do you have that same approach the quality over quantity kind of thing in regards to your client?
Yeah. And I think I think going into we we had some very definite conversations of what we wanted to happen within our business, because your business, when you love what you’re doing, it becomes your life as well. And I didn’t want to have that feeling that I felt when when we were struggling with a small business and how do we how do we grow this or grow that we need some experts, but we don’t want to call that agency that it’s so big, that you get lost in the weeds. So we never want to be that big that we don’t know our clients that are passing them off to other people. We want to be able to still have that intentional mindset that we’re able to have that relationship and we’re part of their team. We just want to be an extension of their team. We don’t want them to be one of those people that hey, we’ll put you on hold and someone will get back to you. We never want that. That’s that’s that’s not why we’re doing it.
Now, how have you found growing your business and still staying in touch and connected with your clients? Because this is the this is the tricky part is if someone has this mindset, and you really do start getting a lot of clients, then it becomes well now I could spend eight hours a day on calls with clients. So how do you balance growing but also keeping tabs on them? Is that where maybe hiring out some of the tech and the actual doing this stuff comes into play? And you just focus on client relationships, like what’s worked for you guys.
So we have a team that we break down as to what their their exact relationship is one of the responsibilities because our clients are really busy too. So they don’t want to have 100 meetings a week. So we have one scheduled meeting with them that we do a run through of everything we have Have some online support systems that they can kind of click in and out complete something, have a question wants something else reviewed. So a lot of stuff can be done online, but we have those touch points as well. And that’s specifically because our, our clients are busy too. They don’t want to be sitting in meetings, they don’t want to be sitting in zooms, they don’t want to be talking to our whole team, they want that strategy done. And then they want to go on and do the other things. So we’ve kind of divided and conquered in that way. And we know those touch points that we need to be there, or their relationship manager can be the one that answers their questions. Gotcha, simplify things for them.
So I guess that’s where having your roles identified and knowing if you’re the CEO of your business, what your role is, and then you’re going to be just client facing or are you going to do any of the work? I guess that’s where that’s really important. Because yeah, this is the problem that I’ve seen with some of my students who have grown really quick is there like, I could literally spend all day just on the phone, and I need to make sure I have time to actually do the work. So that’s a good point. Yeah. And I think it’s really tricky. I think it’s really tricky for people who, particularly a lot of web designers are the designer, we we are the technician of the business, we like doing the work and then suddenly it’s like, oh, shoot, I’m actually a business owner. And now Now I need to focus on that unless I’m gonna hire that out.
And I think I think you have to take that that internal inventory all the time. Am I doing what I really want to do? What what are those things? If I if my day is gonna get hijacked? What can I? What can I set aside to have someone else do one of the things where my strength is, and I really love it. And I think we all struggle with it. Because when we love what we do, it’s hard to like release that death grip on it.
That’s true. It’s also hard to turn off isn’t it? This is I have is I have a wife I got you probably see my picture here. I’ve got two little girls, I got a two and a three year old board work life balance has been huge. For me, it’s what I really strive for. And I feel like I’ve got a really good grasp on that. But there are times where if I’m not in my office or working my computer, I still have trouble turning it off mentally. Let’s just go right there. How have you learned you’ve been an entrepreneur for a while? How have you learned because you came from the corporate world. But with photography and everything I imagine you’re working from home or working where and when you would want how have you learned to turn it off?
My situate My situation is a little different because I was married, had four kids, my kids are older now. So all of a sudden I’ve got where it was before I was doing more of the bouncing. Now I kind of my time was a little bit more my own. So I might not be the best person. But I guard my schedule. I get up at 530 in the morning, I do my morning routine, do all the things that I need to do, and then knock off those things that I can do before my day gets hijacked. So I try to do that as much as possible. And then into the evening. Sometimes if I want to go back on and just create something out. Sometimes it’s for clients, sometimes it’s for me, but it is it’s again, my I’m living the dream because I don’t have little kids that I have to if I don’t want to make dinner at night, I don’t make dinner at night. So yeah,
Now when you were in that, when you were in that season, was that a struggle for you? Did you find yourself managing family and working? You know, just in between when you could what I’m just curious what that phase of your life was like.
It was crazy. I I’ve kind of blacked some of that out. And when I first started having kids literally and this was ages ago, I would be in the darkroom with is what do they call those front baby carriers, with my baby in the dark room, like doing stuff? And I’m like, No, this has got to change since these chemicals probably are not good for babies. So again, it’s it’s it’s just being super vigilant about your schedule. And then when you’re you’re needing someone else, and you’re realizing you can’t do it at all, all alone, release that grip and have someone at least help me with your scheduling take on the smaller things this so that you can do the bigger things that that you feel not to be a diva, but you feel more fulfilled with you, oh, you can check some things off. Look, I was I was important today I did this, this and this and I got something accomplished and move the business forward. Look, you know, having all the little nitty gritty,
And even just taking a surface level inventory of what you got done. And just checking those things off or just acknowledging like, Oh, this is what I did today that is really important. I, I’ve really reminded myself more recently to do this. Because just like all entrepreneurs and business owners, we do so much that we don’t even realize and at the end of the week, you can feel like I don’t feel like I did anything this week. But then if you actually look at what you did, then people are like, how do you do so much in one week? So I think it really is important to take that self evaluation and I don’t know what the right term would be to look at what you accomplished that week to evaluate that but do that I really Really can’t encourage everyone to do that enough.
Particularly with a family like we’re in the heat of it right now. It just, it’s crazy. It’s wild but, but it’s awesome to like I love being able to have the time and flexibility to work from home and see the girls, you probably might hear him running running outside my office right now they’re wild. But there’s so much opportunity for that now to especially it’s been interesting, complete, utter side note. And that is that my audience, according to my analytics, and stuff has jumped up from like, heavily male to now almost 50/50 I’m at like, 60/40, some female to male. And I think a lot of that is because there are a lot of stay at home moms who are doing web design, and there’s other gals who are leaving corporate world and want to have more freedom to be at home or, or to do stuff like that, which is really cool.
So I say all that to say, it’s awesome. But you do have to be really intentional. Like what you’re talking about Lisa with organizing your day. I liked what you said. Because you it sounds like you’re acknowledging that your day will get hijacked. It’s just what can you get done before that happens, right?
And then you realize you’ve done everything for work and there’s no groceries in the home and you’re like oh, I probably need to.
We literally like that just happened two days ago, we were we’ve just you know, I’m I’m working on stuff. My wife’s a stay at home mom, she’s keeping up with them. And we’re like, Wait, literally have nothing. And like we got to go but it was we just like said the weather is really cool. Right now we just had this snowstorm and it was like the day it was snowing. And we’re like, we got to figure something out. So we’re gonna have to we’re gonna have to brave it and go to go to the store right in the middle of this off the land. Live off the land of Columbus, Ohio. I know. But these are these are really good points lease I love this conversation. It really is important now to actually I’m curious in the with the idea of work life balance. So when did you start? When did you leave the corporate world and start photography and getting into your own business stuff?
I’ve been doing photography for 30 years.
So night, like early nineties.
Long time. I was so young. So yeah,
You started at like 33 years old, right?
Yes, yeah. But I think we need to, you know, some people are made for the corporate world. There’s nothing wrong with that. And some people are made more to be an entrepreneur. And you need to know how to balance your time how how your flow goes where you’re most productive. I think being really cognizant of that is important. And I think also you need to realize, you forget how much you’re actually getting done at home, you’re not driving, you’re not going back and forth, you’re not in these other meetings that you’re doing. You’re cranking through things in a much more productive way without a lot of interruptions. Even though you might have your kids and all of that you’re still the quality of the time that you’re managing is still really exceptional.
Yeah, that’s a great point. A lot of people in the entrepreneurial world demonize the nine to five in the corporate world. And I I kind of I was in that I was in that tribe for a long time. Just because I am not a corporate person whatsoever. There’s not a fiber of my being that can live in a cubicle and commute nine to five every day. But a lot of my family are like that. And they they’re fine with it. Like I’ve got a lot of family who they like their jobs, they want to clock in clock out. They don’t want to think about business at night. And that’s totally fine. The world needs both. What I what I’ve found is even in just my experience of a decade, plus now being an entrepreneur is I’ve even seen a shift in work life balance. So I was curious, like, was there any talk of work life balance in the 90s? You know, when you were coming from the corporate world stuff? Or was it just make as much money and profit as you can? And if you don’t see your kids screw him, like, what did it look like in the 90s?
Well, I was starting to have kids too. So that I was I was bouncing more of that. But I think there was a there’s always the scarcity. There was much more of that scarcity and again, holding your cards really close to you so and I think within doing that, you created more of that scarcity, because you didn’t know you know, the grass is always greener, you’re always thinking other people are doing other things and whatever. Now there’s there’s that community where you can talk more freely about what’s what’s the potential for this? Where are you being paid for this, like you can have those open conversations and realize even with social media, where you think that everybody else is living that that perfect life, that everybody else is kind of on the same plateau as you and you’re still.
Yeah, that’s That’s funny. You mentioned like about what you’re charging and stuff I’ll never forget. I was in a business coaching program that was in person and this guy who ran a Social Media Marketing Agency was there and he was definitely that type that was I think more scarcity minded and he pulled me aside and he was like, Hey, would you mind sharing with me and he got real quiet. It was really weird. It wasn’t sure what he was gonna ask and he was like, how much you’re charging for websites. And I was like, Oh, dude, I I will tell. I will shout that from the roof. The mountain top of what I’m charging.
Like it is It’s funny the difference between personalities sometimes with Yeah, like holding, and even now, I don’t even think that’s a big deal. Like, I guess some agencies might want to safeguard that. But yeah, it was just kind of funny, like the difference between people who are really, really safe guarded about that stuff. And I’m like, Yeah, I’m 3500 bucks for this type of site. But I, again, I maybe it’s because social media, I don’t know, but I love the openness of, you know, with that kind of stuff.
And I think that just improves the industry, doesn’t it, because people that are coming in that are undercutting, you know what you’re not, you’re not gonna survive. If you’re, if you’re doing that, if you want that longevity, you’re gonna have to pay your taxes at some point, you need the money for that somewhere, you’re gonna have to pay to have the lights on all of that. So it’s, it’s it’s elevates the industry, when you’re like this is, this is a good starting point here. And you can just go up from there with your experience, people are paying for experience as well. And if you’re aligning with those clients that want that quality they’re going to pay for, for what you’re putting out there with the experience and the quality that you’re putting out.
Yeah, yeah, that’s a good point. I’m curious. This has been awesome. By the way, Lisa, I really enjoyed this chat. We were going to talk about branding, but I’ll call it something different. We really talked a lot about purpose and meaning in business and what you know how to, I guess, really manage your business and you’re in your clients and navigating this, this digital landscape that just is ever evolving and stuff, which has been really cool. I’m just kind of curious, on a personal level, what fires you up? Now, you’ve been in business for quite a while, like, a lot of people get burned out at this point in their career, I would imagine, but what you seem really excited, what what’s kept that fire alive for you?
I don’t think I could do anything else. I don’t think I’ll ever retire, which is probably a sad thing. Because I have the best experiences working with people. You know, I think if I had to stay home and didn’t get these opportunities to connect with people, I’m learning, I’m growing. I’m meeting people, I’m able to engage with them and, and create something. And I think that at the core being a creator, you just need to have those interactions still. So even if it wasn’t doing this, I would have to create something else. I think I’ll always be an entrepreneur and a creator in some sort of way. So there’s different go to the table a lot of times just as you would, and you don’t know what to expect. And then it unwraps like a gift and you’re like, oh, okay, this is something completely new. And there’s a new challenge.
I think the the idea of retirement is changing dramatically, because of the opportunities and entrepreneurialship and stuff and even people who are still in the corporate role. I don’t think it’s it’s not a secret anymore, that most people who retire and passed away in like five years, you know,
Like, I’m not ready yet. Yeah, like I mean, a home.
I’m not. It’s not I that when I That’s funny, you mentioned that because I’ve thought about that, like it’s so my financial advisor A while back, we chatted, because I’m like contributing to my, my savings accounts and stuff and retirement and all but I’m like, I’m definitely 100% Never going to stop creating and doing any sort of meaningful work at a certain age. That is, I would lose my mind. Like, I have no interest in just doing nothing. And I look, I love a good beach in my wife and I would love to live near beach one day, but I don’t want to just drink a sugary drink on the beach all day every day. That’s not like, that’s, that’s dessert. That’s icing on the cake. Everyone smile, but you know what I mean?
Like, I I think that’s what a lot of people are finding out too now. And now that there are these options for deep meaningful connections and work online. Yeah, you can you can balance doing stuff part time or when you want still have those meaningful, you know, whether it’s creating or whether it’s engaging, or whatever it is. Yeah. I love that. You said that. Because I I think a lot of people listening and watching and probably feeling the same, like, who wants to retire and do nothing after a certain age? Not me. Not you? Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Just stare blankly at your partner.
Yeah. So what are you going to do today? Right. Yeah,
I want to just lean engaged, anxiously engaged in whatever I’m doing. Hmm,
That’s good. That’s good. Well, I got one final question for you, Lisa. I know we’re closing in on our here. But this has been great. Thank you so much for sharing your time and fun. Yeah, some of your experience and thoughts on a lot of this stuff. And again, it’s outside of web design, per se. But you’re still you’re doing a lot in the online world and web design as a part of it. So it’s been really cool getting your experience as well with what you’ve seen and what you’ve done over the past few decades here. Before we close up here, where would you like everyone listening and watching to go? Is there a certain resource that you guys have that you’d like everyone to check out? Or you want them to just go to your website or?
Thank you. Yeah, you can just go to sprout connectors.com There’s some information on there and some downloads on there that and reach out to us. Give us a call. We’re pretty friendly. We would talk to you.
Yeah, I get that vibe. Sure. Yeah,
Questions or anything? You know, just questions about branding. How should you start? You know, the best thing is to slow down beat up. We hear that all the time. But take that time to be intentional before you just jump into something and have a plan.
So one one final question. And maybe maybe that’s the answer. But if you could give advice to somebody who is like starting their business, maybe they’re they’re on the ground floor. They’re They’re excited. They’re getting ready. You could take this wherever you want, Lisa, what would you what would what would be one piece of advice you’d give them where you would give them based off of your experience.
I have a girlfriend actually, that I’m working with, and has had this idea. And it’s been resonating for a while and she’s had other ideas popping up. And this one keeps coming back. So she’s she’s acting on this. And I love that she’s, she’s motivated. She’s, she’s got the inertia to do it. But she’s also thinking in the long run, she’s thinking what she needs to do to set it up right now. And she may not have the money right now to do all the things. But she’s putting things in place. So she’s setting up her business appropriately at first.
Slow down to speed up, put all those those conversations out there, make those arrangements, those agreements with people that you need to help you out, so that you can step into it. – Lisa
So that it’s, there’s not going to be the changes. Just like with a website, if they were coming to you to do the website, you don’t want to put something up there. That’s that’s not demonstrating who they are and what their business is and doesn’t show their brand. So again, slow down to speed up, put all those those conversations out there, make those arrangements, those agreements with people that you need to help you out, so that you can step into it, and love it have that ideation behind it just the same reason we do the branding strategy with a client before we take them on, just to skip the whole landscape of everything before we get started.
That’s great. So having a little long term vision and a little more of this. I think a lot of people get the the short range vision. That’s it in the beginning. It’s like I just want to get a client. But I think you’re right, having a little more meaning and purpose and long, long term vision. They’re in the beginning. Gosh, I certainly wish I had that early on. So yeah, I wish I would have heard this talk 10 years ago. This is awesome. Lisa, thank you so much for your time and for coming on. This is great
Thank you really enjoyed it. Really appreciate this.
Awesome, Lisa. Thanks.
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