It took me almost 6 years to hit 6-figures (100k plus) as a web designer. It took me less than 1 year to hit that with online courses.

What was the biggest difference between the two journeys to 6 figures?

It wasn’t confidence. It wasn’t communication. It wasn’t the quality of the offers…

It was my mindset.

I could not have imagined 100k plus when I first started in web design. But when I started with online courses, 100k was what I first set my sights on.

I had broken through countless mindset hurdles in order to feel confident to hit that goal in year one.

In this podcast episode, I want to help YOU bust your limiting mindsets that are holding you back and I’m honored to bring on the host of The Brand Strategy Podcast and coach, Bonnie Bakhtiari, who shares her counter-intuitive thoughts on what’s truly holding most entrepreneurs back from hitting 6-figures and more importantly, how to bust those limiting mindsets.

Bonnie is a wealth of inspiration and practical advice on how to deal with this topic, so it was a blast spending some time diving into this!

I sure wish I would’ve heard this convo earlier in my journey…

P.S. She’s a Golden Retriever parent 2x as well so I knew we’d hit it off!

In this episode:

00:00 – Introduction
04:36 – Greeting to Bonnie
08:03 – Work life integration
11:12 – Productivity is priority
13:25 – Working towards a goal
18:49 – Mindset struggles
25:02 – Protection in self-awareness
28:55 – Journey of possibility
30:39 – Don’t be your drama
33:16 – Funnel thoughts
37:20 – Money is abundant resource
45:04 – Bringing an energy
50:15 – Value based worth
54:57 – How to start with value
1:00:00 – Measuring brand strategy
1:03:50 – Confidence
1:05:14 – Power of three
1:10:09 – Finding Bonnie
1:12:18 – Most common issue

Check out Bonnie’s free training on how to 3x your income without taking on more branding clients.


Connect with Bonnie:

This episode sponsored by Josh’s free Masterclass.

Episode #180 Full Transcription

Josh 0:00
Hello, Friends welcome into the podcast. So excited to have you alongside me for this episode, Episode 180. Because we’re gonna bust some limiting mindsets. And in this interview, my guest, Bonnie Bakhtiari is actually known as a brand strategist and a coach, she actually has the podcasts on brand strategy called the brand strategy podcast. But she has a lot of interesting viewpoints and kind of a different take on mindset. And what it takes to get to a six figure mindset. And what’s interesting about this is because I’ll just be completely transparent with you if you don’t know my story up to this point. But it took me six years, as a web designer to bring my business to six figures. It took me less than one year to bring my online course business to six figures.

Josh 2:18
The biggest difference I can tell you firsthand, between those two journeys, and those two paths was my mindset. It wasn’t sales, it wasn’t communication, it wasn’t even necessarily the offers, all of those played a factor in the growth of a business. But I will tell you the biggest hurdle of getting to six figures as quickly as I did, compared to how long it took me in the beginning days was my mindset. And I’m sure I’m not alone. And in fact, you may be dealing with a lot of mindset issues that are holding you back. And in this episode, Bonnie and I really dive into how you can bust through those suckers. And it’s really important because you are worth way more than you’re charging right now you are way more valuable than you think you are. Even if you’re just starting out, I want to help you get to six figures.

Josh 3:05
And I say six figures because that’s generally what it’s going to take at least stateside to have a good healthy income for you and your family. Or to live the life you want to live. In some places the world getting to 20,30 or 40,000 may be perfect for you or depending on their season of life. So just remember six figures is it’s going to depend be dependent on where you are in your season of life where you are in the world. But either way, you’ve got some limiting mindset issues that we’re gonna dive into and help you get over in this episode. Bonnie was awesome. What a pleasure to chat with her.

Josh 3:39
She has a really great brand too. I highly recommend checking her out, you can go for B is for Bonnie design.com, which of course will be linked at the show notes for this episode at Josh howell.co/ 180. Check her out. She’s got some resources for you that we’re going to talk about. And definitely give her podcast a spin as well. And you’ll actually depending on when this comes out, you may hear your story truly on there soon as well. But really excited to hear how this episode in this conversation with Bonnie is going to help you bust through those limiting mindsets.

Josh 4:09
The last thing I’ll mention is to help you scale to six figures. If you don’t know I do have a free masterclass on this that’s on demand, meaning you can access it at any time. Go to Josh hall.co/scale. And you can join that for free and it’ll be a great addition to this episode to help you scale to six figures. But right now, let’s bust those limiting mindsets. Enjoy.

Josh 4:36
Bonnie, welcome on to the podcast. Thanks so much for taking some time today to chat with us here.

Bonnie 4:41
Thanks so much for having me, Josh. I was very excited to get to chat with you and and be on your show.

Josh 4:47
Yeah, we were just about to get into it before we recorded about what we’re going to talk about but even what you said in 30 seconds I was like it’s too good. Let’s let’s save it for the chat because you have a lot of experience. And I know you shared a lot of resources, particularly about mindset for freelancers, and designers and kind of busting through some limiting mindsets. And I’m sure that’s limiting financially or a lot of different categories. But you and I, Ed spoke recently at the Thrive Summit. And I saw your talk on busting that limiting mindset of getting the six figures. And that so resonates with me because I had to go through that. And I know a lot of my students are going through that as well. So, so excited to pick your brain about this. Before we dive in, would you like to let everybody know, first off where you’re based out of and if you could just give us the the quick snapshot of what you do? Hit me with it?

Bonnie 5:37
Yeah, absolutely. So I am based out of beautiful Waco, Texas. So if you have anyone tuning in, who’s a fan of the fixer upper show or Chip and Joanna Gaines, or Baylor football, that is where I’m at. So we are right here. And we go in the heart of all of that. And I am a brand designer and strategist for women entrepreneurs in the service based industry. So creatives, coaches, photographers, people like that. And I’ve been doing that since 2012. And actually around 2015 is when I started to see that the the trial and error that I’ve gone through in my own business, this this kind of journey that I experienced as what I like to think of as an accidental entrepreneur, is something that I could share with others and something that I could really kind of peel back the curtain on in my own journey and help other designers think about how they want to build a business that aligns with their definition of success.

Bonnie 6:34
So in 2017, I launched what is now my signature program for designers called the brand strategy school and I’m on a mission to help graphic Brandon web designers break up with that feast or famine mentality and that kind of hustle mindset that keeps us strapped to our computers long into the night without seeing the kind of return on our time investment on our energy investment. So that we can be building the lives that allow us to be living the quality of life and experiencing the kind of freedom that we want to experience without feeling like we have to constantly be on that, that sort of nonstop process of hustle.

Josh 7:13
Well, there’s like 10 podcast topics we could dive into right out of that. I totally agree. I’m very aligned with with how you feel about online entrepreneurship, particularly when it comes to work life balance. I agree. I feel like there’s a movement now of maybe not anti hustle, but hustle for like seasons or in this. This goes into mindset, I think so let’s just dive into it. Like, what are your thoughts on? I’m gonna it’s gonna derail us right from the get go? What are your thoughts on hustle when when the hustle and when to pull back because I am a worker, I’m a blue collar guy, I will put my work boots on I will just work. But I’ve learned to kind of reel that back. Especially now as a family. I have two daughters of a life two golden retrievers. We like hanging out spending time together. I’ve had to learn to reel that back. What about you? What are your thoughts on hustle and when to hustle, when to pull back and balance?

Bonnie 8:03
Yeah, I love this question. Because I think you’re right, like, especially in the online industry right now, there are tons of conversations and I see tons of, I almost want to call it push back against this kind of traditional concept of, of hustle culture where in order to succeed in order to be successful, in order to make it you have to be putting in these long hours and you have to be working these 40 hour plus work weeks, and you have to do all these things that that you know, someone has told us we have to do and what I prefer to practice and what I found that actually works better for me and for my students is practicing this approach of work life integration.

Bonnie 8:43
So rather than focusing on work life balance as this journey, this destination that we’re going to keep striving for, but that we struggle to ever actually achieve. We look at it as this practice of knowing that life and professional responsibilities, each have their own season, and they don’t have to be in at such odds against each other where your work life has to be the be all end all or you have to, you know, like shirk your career in order to grow your family and feel present with your family.

Bonnie 9:16
Instead, we look at it as this approach of how can in this season, how can I align my professional responsibilities with my personal responsibilities or how I want to be present in my life and how can I I focus on that trade off so that maybe there’s some seasons like you were just talking about there are some seasons where it’s more hustle heavy, but I like to look at that as seasons of intentional hustle versus this nonstop process of directionless hustle.

Bonnie 9:45
So we were looking at that as I know that right now I’ve got a launch coming up or I want to book this certain client number or I want to you know, get my my freelance business up off the ground and turn it into this this full time business, if you’re aware that that’s what your goals are in this season, you might say, Okay, I know that in order to hit those goals, there might need to be some trade off, I might need to work a little longer. Or I might need to, you know, like, say no to the social commitments and say yes to, you know, more goal setting or more like action taking to achieve those goals.

Bonnie 10:22
But we’re doing that with the knowledge of this is temporary. This is these are steps I’m taking in order to hit this goal. And this is not how I’m going to be in my business and operating my business forever. So at the end of that, there’s going to be that trade off of Alright, I just went through this season of intentional hustle. And now I’m going to kind of pull back a little bit, I’m going to rest I’m going to be more present, I’m going to be working fewer hours. And I’m going to be focusing more on you know, my personal life versus my professional goals, if that makes sense. Yeah,

Josh 10:52
that’s great. And this all feeds into mindset, I’m sure. Because if you are stressed out and over hustled, it’s really difficult to work on your mindset and to break some through some of the barriers that I’m sure we’ll get into here. So I, I totally agree with that. It’s you said a word I haven’t heard before. And that was, was it directionless hustle? Is that?

Bonnie 11:11
Yeah.

Josh 11:12
I love that. Because I’ve often talked recently about how priority is so much more important than productivity. Because if you’re really productive, doing all the things, but doing the wrong things that can just derail you, and really send you into burnout mode. Whereas if you know, your priorities, and you’re thoughtful about what the biggest ROI things are in your business, you will get so much more done. And you can work so many less hours and have a more integrated and balanced life than then, you know, being really productive, all the wrong things. Would you agree with that as far as priority over productivity?

Bonnie 11:48
Absolutely. I wish I’m not in a long as I’m hearing you say that, because in my mind, and the way that I kind of talk about this with my students and my community is this mindset of you can be busy. But if you’re busy and you’re focusing on the wrong things in your business, you’re still going to be broke, or you’re still going to be burnt out, or you’re still going to find yourself not not achieving the kind of results that you want to see, just because you’re like you were saying just because you’re busy, and you’re working on things, and you’re getting a lot of stuff done. And you’re like crushing that to do list. If you’re not focusing on the right things, if you’re not focusing on the things that are actually moving the needle forward in your business. From personal experience, I found that to be just a waste of time and energy.

Josh 12:30
Well, and there’s nothing worse than being really busy and working a lot and then wondering like why isn’t my bank account getting fuller? Or why isn’t? Why aren’t my numbers going up? I know that from experience, I’m sounds like you’ve been through that as well. I think everyone has or maybe somebody’s going through it right now listening. It’s not uncommon, you shouldn’t feel like a failure, you feel it shouldn’t feel stupid. It’s just you need this conversation to stop, look at things maybe pivot a little bit prioritize. And then again, this is kind of the foundation.

Josh 12:59
I feel like we’re unintentionally laying the foundation for mindset, and busting through some of this stuff. Because this is crucial. Like, if you aren’t, if you don’t know what to work on, it’s gonna be really hard to balance things and keep your mind straight. And actually, last question before, I want to ask about when you started really changing your mindset on things. What do you think the difference is between work life integration and work life balance?

Bonnie 13:25
I love this question. And I want to preface my answer by saying that I think that it looks a little bit different for everyone. So the way that I perceive it may be different from the way that you perceive it. But just based on some conversations that I’ve had with with others over the years, what I hear, and especially when I talk to a lot of women, what I find is that when we think about work life balance, we have been told, and we’ve been taught that it’s this kind of magical sort of experience where you’re able to balance both your personal life and your professional life.

Bonnie 14:00
You’re able to grow your family, you’re able to find a partner, you’re able to, you know, build the life that you want, and you’re able to have a flying career or, you know, kind of build the business of her dreams. And I think that from my experience where that has not resonated with me is that if I think about balance, and I think about that concept, right? If if I look at let’s say like a seesaw, you know, like the playground, in order for that to actually be in that place of equilibrium, right? Like one end has to be at the same point as the other.

Bonnie 14:39
If one is in a season where let’s say one and his personal life and one in his professional life and let’s say that maybe I’m in a season and my family needs more of my time or needs more of my support, and I don’t have as much to give to my business then right like the the weight the heaviness of my personal life become something that drags me down and means that I’m not able to really true really keep my career at the same level at the same priority. So for person personally, I felt like that was something that made me feel limited. And that made me feel like I was constantly working towards this goal, this destination that I could never really achieve.

Bonnie 15:13
But if I just flipped that one word, and I swapped out balance for integration, then instead of it being this, this balancing act, it became this, this very fluid process of ebbing and flowing of moving in a direction where right now, my family needs me more than my business needs me. So I can make that adjustment. Or maybe the on the flip side, I’m moving towards a professional goal, I’m growing my team or I’m, you know, trying to land this amazing new client, I know that I need to, to work harder, I need to have more intentional hustle in order to do that.

Bonnie 15:49
So in order to do that, I need to say, Hey, I’m not as available to my my personal commitments, or I, I need to ask for more support from my partner in order to keep our household moving forward smoothly. And I’m aware that this is this is almost like this, this kind of dance that we get to engage in. And just personally, that idea was something that resonated with me more. And like I said, based on a lot of conversations that I’ve had over the years with, with women especially, it can be something that I think gives us allows us to feel like more freedom.

Josh 16:22
Well, I think the big differentiator between the two because I’ve really struggled with this, what the difference is, it makes a lot of sense what you’re saying, I think what the difference is, is that if you’re trying to balance things on this teeter totter, those things are separate. But the reality is professional life and personal life, particularly when you work from home, it’s never going to be separate, it’s always going to be intertwined. So that’s how I would do that is if you do try to keep them separate and perfectly balanced. Once one is going really well the other one’s going down. And then vice versa. It seems like when things are going great with the family, the business is hurting, vice versa, business is going great your personal life is going down.

Josh 17:02
It makes a lot of sense that integration can be the perfect solution for all that because I tried to really keep my wife and my Well, my kids are two and three right now. So they don’t really understand. But I do say Daddy’s going to work out, you know, 10 feet away, be good. So integration has changed my life as as a dad printer, you know, dramatically. It’s funny. We just watched devils were my Devil Wears Prada. So I mean, I like Star Wars and Jurassic Park. But I actually enjoy a good chick flick. And that’s actually one of my favorite, I guess, quote unquote, chick flicks. But the line in that movie is resonates here where the guy who works? Shoot, what’s the main actress? What is her name? And the Devil Wears Prada?

Bonnie 17:42
Are you talking about Anne Hathaway? way?

Josh 17:45
Yeah, I just was. So So Anne Hathaway when, when he tells her, just wait till your life goes up in flames. That’s, that’s when it’s time for a promotion. It’s funny, we just watched that. And it reminds me of this, because that does often happen if you are working on that perfect balance, which is just not realistic. So I love that I think integration is a great, great way to go to, you know, really solve a lot of these common issues that all of us go through as entrepreneurs nowadays.

Josh 18:14
And this kind of leads us into mindset, because now that we’ve kind of laid a foundation for practically running our day and feeling good about focusing on mindset in our business, I’d love to find out from you, Bonnie, what did your early self? You know, Bonnie, whenever you got started into the world of entrepreneurship, what was your mindset about business? Kind of an open ended question, but did you have a limiting mindset on how much you could make? what your life would be? Like? Can you just share kind of what the early days of your mindset looked like? And maybe some of the limitations you had maybe some limitations you had on yourself?

Bonnie 18:50
Absolutely. So when I look back to 2012, is when I started my business and a little little background, I mentioned earlier that I consider myself to be an accidental entrepreneur. And that’s very much because I started my business, not really on a whim. But I let’s say I didn’t start with like a formal business plan or anything like that. I actually started my business my graduating semester of my senior year of college, it started out as just kind of like, Hey, I’m gonna launch this website, and I’m gonna see if I can generate some extra cash because I’m getting ready to move across the country. I’m engaged, getting married, you know, like, lots of life change.

If I could go back in time, I would like to shift that where I would like to give equal weight and equal importance to both the strategy and those practical things. – Bonnie

Bonnie 19:30
So I decided, hey, like, let me just let me just see if I can, if I can just generate some extra income. And I can, you know, like, see, see what kind of impact I can have in this way. And so really, when I started getting into it, and I started seeing that actually, this could be more than just a side hustle. This could be a full time business that I’m building. I would definitely say that my mind was more focused on the strategy, the How to then say my mindset and I would actually if I could go back in time, I would like to shift that where I would like to give equal weight and equal importance to both the strategy and those practical things. But also the mindset.

Bonnie 20:09
Because I think there’s there’s a lot that comes into how we approach building sustainable businesses. And we can focus on strategy. And we can focus on processes and workflows, and tools and all those things. And we can talk about that until we’re blue in the face. But if we don’t think about the people that we are the people that we’re becoming, as we’re becoming the founders of these businesses, the CEOs of these businesses, the leaders of teams, if you choose to grow a team, or just a really rock, solid freelancer, solopreneur, and a team of one,

Bonnie 20:41
if we don’t think about the people that we are, then we’re denying ourselves the opportunity to actually, in my opinion, be building these sustainable and life giving businesses. And so when I look back on when I was getting started, I can see that I was buying into this mindset, that business, that growing something worthwhile, that anything like that had to be hard. And I looked back on that. And I see that I believed that only good things were born out of struggle, and it never crossed my mind that I could actually build something that was full of ease, something that was fun, something that I really enjoyed, and it could still be profitable, and it could still be a serious business.

Bonnie 21:24
And and and so when I look back on that, and I think about that, that was definitely a mindset that held me back, because it was it was almost like this self fulfilling prophecy if I believed, okay, you’re starting a business, you’re going out and getting your first clients, you’re building your website, you’re, you know, figuring out your offers and figuring out your pricing. Okay, this is going to be challenging, it’s going to be there’s going to be a certain amount of effort that you have to put into it in order to start to see, you know, success out of it.

Bonnie 21:56
And because I was telling myself that, you know, like, oh, going out and finding your first clients, it’s probably going to be a challenge, it’s probably going to be a little uncomfortable. It was a little uncomfortable, it was challenging. Now, if I kind of flipped that in my head, and I said, Hey, you know what you can go out and you can build this business, and you can connect with potential clients, and you can get your first client and you can have fun doing it, I would have looked for ways to go out and find that person or that group of people in a way that was fun, I would have, you know, kind of looked at ways to gamify it or to find some enjoyment or to build in some rewards, you know, along the way, so that it could be a process that was more enjoyable or more full of ease, not one that was rooted in this concept of anything worth having, you know, you have to struggle for.

Josh 22:48
Yeah, we’ve recently talked quite a bit on the podcast about selling that suits your personality. Like if you just hate Instagram, and you feel really awkward there don’t do Instagram. I love podcasts. And there’s a reason I’m not on Twitter, and I’m not on all the socials, I’m just on the ones that I’m either feel competent in or enjoy. So a lot of great things in there.

Josh 23:08
I love that. One of your mindset hurdles was this concept of things being hard. And I don’t know where this comes from. I don’t know if this stems from generations past were in order to survive, things were just hard. And that could be some of it. It’s funny, Stephanie mentioned this, my mom bless her heart just recently texted me, I think she saw one of my ads on Facebook. And she was like, sweetie, sees like, love, love to see what you’re up to sees, like, I hope things aren’t too hard. I hope you’re not too stressed out. And it was the perfect summary of how I feel just like how you feel. It’s like, I mean, I have stresses, there’s always some level of stress with business, but I don’t, day to day, I’m not like oh my gosh, I’m so stressed out. This is so hard. I’m just overwhelmed. I mean, it really isn’t like that. But that’s by design.

I’ve learned as an entrepreneur to again, focus on what I’m good at, and I know what to delegate and what to push off and what I want to do and just be smart about that. – Josh

Josh 23:59
That’s because I’ve learned as an entrepreneur to again, priority and I focus on what I’m good at, and I and I know what to delegate and what to push off and what I want to do and just be smart about that. So I think if everyone had that reminder early on, it would go such a long way. Because it’s really true, you’re going to get all these different messages that are going to affect your mindset, either are good or bad.

Josh 24:20
There’s a question for you here, Bonnie, how do you? How do you protect your mindset from all of these different mixed signals and messages because it becomes a biggie and I think this is the really important aspect of having a coach or having a mentor, or somebody who you look up to or who is maybe just a couple steps ahead of you to see what’s possible and to you know, follow their processes or stuff. But at the end of the day, everyone’s business is different. And you said that a little bit ago your answer to some of my questions might be a little bit different than my experience. But how do we protect our mindset from all these things.

Bonnie 25:02
I feel like this could be its own episode in and of itself. And I’m so glad you asked this because I think they will I have seen this happen over and over and over again, just from personal experience. But also when I look towards my students works, if we’re honest, and being an online entrepreneur, being an online business owner at this point in history is amazing. And we have so many opportunities and so many resources at our disposal. But also, we are constantly bombarded with ideas, with strategies with information with resources, tools, tutorials, all the things from people who are sharing their experiences and what has worked for them.

Bonnie 25:42
Then if we add on the additional layer, if we acknowledge the, the influences that we’re receiving from society, from our teachers, our coaches, our parents, our family members, our friends, from employers, or, you know, anyone like that, right, we are constantly being bombarded with lots of ideas and lots of thoughts. And it’s so easy for those to permeate into our own minds. And they can shape our mindsets. And we can, they can shape the way that we are moving through the world. And if we aren’t aware, I think that for me, this is where the key is, when we practice self awareness. And I say practice, because I believe self awareness is something that we’re constantly building. And we’re constantly learning how to cultivate that. It’s never that this you know, like, final destination that we reach. But when we

Josh 26:35
Finally self aware, I arrived.

Bonnie 26:38
I am the most self aware of all the humans and this is this is the peak. Yeah, I wish it could be that easy. But I find that if we approach it like a journey, and we decide that all right, when I find myself being and it’s sometimes you might not even be aware of it at first, because sometimes it can be so subtle, like, in my own experience, when I look back on lessons that I learned or that I took away from coaches or teachers when I was little, and I was at school, or from my parents that they passed on to me growing up in their household, things like that. I carry that with me into adulthood.

Bonnie 27:16
And it’s important for me to go inward and kind of examine these mindsets with these thoughts and say, Is this something that originated with me? Is it something that I really believe? Is this something that that serves me well, and empowers me to achieve my goals and supports me as I build the life that I want to live? Or is this something that I picked up from someone else? Is this something that that harms me and doesn’t help me is this something that doesn’t support me on my journey to build, you know, the kind of life that I want to be living?

Bonnie 27:49
And I wish that I could say that it’s as simple as just acknowledging those mindsets and where they come from, and then they just like, disappear, poof, they’re gone. And you like, never deal with them again. But I do find that awareness is that first step and learning, okay? I’ve been carrying around this thought, or this belief or this mindset for maybe your entire life, and it hasn’t helped you. So now’s the opportunity to focus on how do I want to reshape this mindset, if this isn’t something that I like, and this isn’t something that supports me? What do I want to change that into?

Bonnie 28:24
And this is actually something that I talk through with my therapist, and we focused on when I identify these negative or these limiting beliefs or these mindsets together, we focus on okay, how do we want to reframe this? So an example of that would be if you’re believing that business is hard, like I was saying that, you know, business has to be hard that growing your business has to be a challenge? Well, restructuring that into your, you know, growing your business. Yes, it can take effort, but it can be a process that is full of joy, it can be a process that’s full of ease, can be a process that’s full of fun, right? One of those, to me, feels more spacious, it feels better, it feels like something that like, oh, I can get excited about that. And if you think about making decisions from that mental place, versus this place of believing that the business has to be challenging, right, that that can open up a lot more possibility and a lot more openness.

Josh 29:25
I feel like to a lot of people will have that mindset where it is hard or it’s challenging. And that’s it. They just that’s like the finish line for this particular mindset. And they just keep on pressing on with those challenges and solutions. The beauty about technology and where most all creatives are now is there is a solution to pretty much every challenge in every problem. So I’ve learned to take that one step further. And when I get to a challenge I’m very aware that there are going to be struggles there’s going to be challenges there’s going to be hardships, but I don’t stop at that. I don’t I’ll say, Look, this business is just tough. It’s hard.

Josh 30:03
I’ve learned to say, Okay, I’m expecting some challenges when I get to it. Now, what do I do? How can I make this easy? Is it something I can pass off? Is it something I can automate? Is it something I can make easier? Am I making my own life way more challenging that it is? Probably, I think, would you back me up and saying that most all entrepreneurs, we make things 100 times more difficult than we need to?

Bonnie 30:26
100% Like when I’m really being honest with myself, and I look at like the drama that I’ve caused for myself, it’s usually me like I’m, I’m the person behind the scenes, it’s making things more complicated than they actually need to be.

Josh 30:39
Yeah, yeah. So I don’t I just hope that resonates with everyone listening and watching, I hope that is a good point to just like, sit back, take a second think about that. Because you will face challenges, hardships, and struggles, all the things. But that’s not the end of it. That’s that’s where I think we’re probably you’re at Bonnie where I am is like, we’ve learned to combat those challenges, or to make the best of those situations, knowing there still might be challenges, but it doesn’t have to ruin our day, or make every workday a nightmare to wake up for.

Josh 31:09
I love that. It’s it’s some of these thoughts are simple. But sometimes it’s the simple things that are easy to look easy to look over, if we don’t take a step back and actually acknowledge those. I know, like, just just as a quick example, client boundaries and communication, I used to always think that I was just gonna have clients hitting me up nonstop all the time, as a web designer, I just I faced that reality in my mindset back in the day, then I realized, the reason I have clients calling me on Friday nights and Saturday mornings is because I didn’t put any boundaries in place.

Josh 31:42
If I would have put some boundaries in place, which I learned to do over time, it made everything so much better for me. And my clients weren’t trying to be jerks or anything, and they weren’t trying to get on my nerves. They just, they didn’t know when they should call me or text me. So once I put those boundaries in place, I took a challenge and solved it the best way I could. And it made the nine day difference for me in my business. So that’s just a practical example of how Facing the Challenge can, you know you can really help that.

Josh 32:10
But the idea of these different, these different sources coming into your mind, it’s huge. And a lot of people especially I found this to be true with family, and maybe friends, they will say something that they don’t even think resonated with you or made a difference, but it did. And like I remember I have family members who might say like, having your own business that’s risky, like what have you stopped getting clients, and then they move on and start talking to somebody else? And then you’re like, oh, my gosh, what am I do stop getting clients, then the seeds of doubt get planted?

Josh 32:41
And so I guess to that point, to kind of sum up this idea, would you say it’s good to almost run every thought that comes into your brain from anyone else through like a filter? Like, do you have a filter to say, okay, like, I’m going to take this opinion, but I don’t necessarily need to make it my opinion, I’ll run it through this filter and say, Okay, maybe this is maybe I do need to have a plan for if clients get low, like maybe I’ll have three months or six months saved up. But I don’t need to run my business and fear that it’s going to end. Is that fair to say? Is that a fair way to like sum this up as far as what to do with all these thoughts?

Bonnie 33:16
Yeah, absolutely. I do think that having having kind of like a filter, or almost like a, it’s almost like a self checking kind of processing place where like in that instance, if you’re at you know, a dinner or a family reunion, and someone who like it’s a very well meaning relative, but they come and they share something that gets you kind of on this, like this anxiety spiral or this, you know, like the doubts start to set in, and then you start panicking.

Bonnie 33:39
Before you find yourself, I know it can be challenging, but try to practice before the doubts and the fear start kicking in focus on looking at that piece of advice that someone shared with you and say, Do I agree with that advice? Does it serve me? Well, do I want to carry that with me? And then deciding it’s kind of like, it’s like a flowchart? Like yes, now and then you know, the action kind of goes from there. And if it’s, if it’s something that doesn’t serve you or something that doesn’t doesn’t help you, you’re not responsible for carrying that around with you for the rest of your life.

Bonnie 34:15
Instead, you can like which in the example you shared, you can take pieces of it, you can say actually, although I don’t, I don’t want to run my business from a place of fear. But I do like the idea of being prepared and having some contingencies in place to you know, build up that three months or that six months of savings so that if you know things do get kind of slow, I can I can live with that I can handle I can bounce back from it. That can be a really helpful way to look at those thoughts coming in.

Bonnie 34:43
But yes, just having that awareness and saying, Okay, do you know does this serve me, well, does this support me and my journey and then you know, if you need to taking it at a more granular kind of level and saying is this I thought that originated with me, or is this a thought that someone else shared because I don’t know if you can relate to this, but there have been so many times in my life where I’ve carried around advice or well intended thoughts from people who actually, they don’t know anything about my business, or they’re not even business owners themselves.

Josh 35:16
I was just Yes, I was just gonna say some of the worst advice I’ve ever got or opinions from people are people who are in the corporate world, and I’ve never had a business and that’s fine. Like, I’m not saying anything against people who have a salary job in the corporate world. But there’s a massive mindset difference between entrepreneurs and people who have jobs. There’s a massive, massive mindset difference, some good, some bad on either side. But yeah, I often think about a lot of the advice I’ve got over the years, and some that I held on to wait for long, and I realized, you have to look at the source, like, Who is this opinion coming from?

Josh 35:51
If I sign up for your coaching, I’m going to take your opinions and your advice, way differently than my aunt who has never, you know, been an entrepreneur, you know what I mean? Like, that’s going to be a completely different filter. So like, if Bonnie says something, I’m gonna think, Okay, I’m really gonna think about this, even if I don’t agree with her. I don’t understand it right now. I’ll think about it and see how this fits for me. But yeah, if it’s somebody in your family, who they, you know, they barely kept a job themself, I wouldn’t listen to them for I would take their opinion and just brush that aside more than likely.

Josh 36:23
So that’s a great point, because we do often put way too much stock in people who have never done what we’re doing. So I think it’s a really big, it’s a really big piece to to the mindset. I want to talk about money, and the mindset of money. I love I had another question in there, but it will come back to me. And maybe this will take us a little further into your background, Bonnie, but how has your mindset of money changed with where you’re at now and where you were when you started?

Josh 36:57
Again, you’re an actual accidental entrepreneur, as in my, I actually should rename this podcast that might be already taken. But most everybody who comes on in this podcast are accidental entrepreneurs, we’ve just fumbled into this. The money mindset is huge, especially when it comes to selling and feeling confident. So can you just would you be open to sharing about where you’re at now, and the differences between your mindset of money when you first started?

Bonnie 37:20
Absolutely. So to share kind of where I am now, with my mindset to money, I believe that money is this abundant resource, I believe that there’s more than enough to go around, I believe that making money is fun. I believe that money is a powerful tool that can be used for good in my life and in the lives of those around me. And I get excited about it. Like it’s something that I actively welcome into my business, because I view it as this really positive tool.

Bonnie 37:54
I will say it was very different when I started my business, because when I was just getting started, if we think back to you know who I was, and where I was, in 2012, I can honestly say that I was building my business from this place of believing that it had to be challenging, believing that, you know, growing this business would be tough. And because of that my money mindset was, I kind of want to say it was like it was tainted with this idea that making money is hard. Making money is selfish. Making money is not is not good. Wanting to make more money, especially as a woman is greedy, wanting to you know, see more zeros in my bank account makes me in some way, a bad person.

Bonnie 38:39
And what I found, and this is maybe something that people tuning into can relate with is the household that I grew up in, we were taught this, this belief that you know, money is the root of all evil, that money is something that is inherently bad that people who have a lot of money are greedy, people who are just hoarding their resources, and they’re selfish, and they’re not good. And when I look back on, you know, growing up as a kid around those kinds of messages, of course, when I started my business, and the point of my business was to be a self sufficient money generating entity. It felt uncomfortable, it felt like there was this disconnect.

Bonnie 39:25
And what I realized is that these these thoughts and these beliefs, these values that they weren’t even mine, I didn’t decide I didn’t come you know, I didn’t like sprout up out of the earth like believing these things. I was taught these things. And so when I actually looked at the way I was approaching money and the way that I was actually sabotaging myself from making money because I was telling myself that like, this isn’t a good thing. Like it’s not good to be snot. No one wants to be a greedy woman, like no one wants to be friends with you know, the woman who’s ambitious and she’s going went out there, and she wants to make, you know, hundreds of 1000s of dollars.

Bonnie 40:03
When I looked at those thoughts, I realized how small they were keeping me. And I realized that they weren’t helping me have any kind of impact in the world, they weren’t helping me to go out and you know, make more money. So then I could give generously or so that I could provide for my family or anything like that. So when I started to look at that, and I started to do that personal work, that inner work, of reshaping those thoughts and reshaping those beliefs, and looking at money as a tool, instead of looking at, I think it’s kind of hilarious. Now looking back on it, like believing this thought that money is the root of all evil.

Bonnie 40:40
When money in and of itself, if we look at currency, currency is not inherently evil, it has no moral value, it’s not good or bad. It’s just it’s, it’s there. It’s a, it’s a tool. It’s a tool of modern society. And so when I think about that, and when I focus on that, I’m able to extract my morality or my perceived morality, from my desire to build a sufficient self sustaining profitable business. And I’m able to then look at how money can be a tool, it can be something that I can use as an asset to pour back into my business, I can use it to help my family, I can use it to give to causes that I care about, I can use it to create jobs within my business, and help other people have a sustainable and consistent income that they can then use however they choose.

Bonnie 41:31
And if we, you know, think about those kinds of things, then I find that for me, personally, money became something that I was excited to go out and generate more of, because I saw how helpful it could be not because of, you know, greed or anything like you know, any kind of ego based idea, but, but as at face value of just what it is a tool that we use in modern society to, to, you know, pay for goods and services.

Josh 42:00
I love that it’s funny, I recently, my, my VA Kam had raised her rates, and I’m so glad I have worked on my mindset of money over the years, because when she told me her rates were going up pretty significantly. I wasn’t upset with her or like, man, now she’s, you know, it’s gonna cost way more, I was excited, because I know, she adopts children, and she has a big family. And I knew that like her hourly rate at a higher rate is going to help her and help her family. And that was a big money mindset shift for me. Whereas even maybe just a few years ago, I’ve been like, oh, man, I’m paying this much for for a VA service, I want to keep it right there.

Josh 42:40
Whereas I’m fine with investing a little more even at if it takes a little bit off the low end. For the business, the bottom end, it’s still fine. Like it wasn’t, it wasn’t too much there, it was going to be a problem financially with where I’m at with the business. So that money mindset is huge. I mean, that affects everything. I also would like to talk about how it affects confidence in sales. So you talked about the personal side of things, which I had some thoughts on that, but I would pray to pretty much just articulate everything you just said, because I feel the exact same way. But likes particularly because I teach web designers and creatives.

Josh 43:15
A big problem with the mindset of money is that they might be really good at design. And this is really common with a lot of developers, I’ve found they might be really good at development and the technical side of web design, but they can’t sell for ship. Like when it comes to selling a website. They’re like oh, they just they you get a little sweaty when you’re talking money or they feel too sleazy and salesy. However, I found my mindset of value. And what I create in the the mindset of money, even just with what I provide was a big difference in how I can really come across selling. Can you talk about that? And how would that help you like, with that whole mindset shift of money that you experienced? How did that help with selling and articulating value? Maybe over? You know, a number?

Bonnie 44:02
Well, I think that when I look back on that a few thoughts come to my mind about how my new my newer money mindset how that showed up in the way that I projected myself and the way that I experienced a deeper sense of confidence when I was talking to a lead on a sales call when I was talking about the investment that goes along with my services. And one thing specifically would be back when I’m starting my business, and I was believing that money was you know, in some way, you know, on some level, not desirable or bad or something like that. Of course I felt uncomfortable on a sales call talking about money because I was the the message underneath all of that was you know, this is not a good thing you’re talking about,

Josh 44:48
Right? Yeah, cuz then you’d feel bad. If you’re like, you’re like it’s gonna be $3,000 and they move forward. I remember I experienced that specifically with a $3,000 website. I almost felt bad. I was like, This doesn’t feel All right. And now of course, I’m like, oh, three grands on enough to stay profitable, you need to up that.

Bonnie 45:04
Yeah, for sure, for sure I can remember like this feeling of like, just achiness, like, I felt so gross talking about money and talking about the investment. And part of that was, you know, my island, my negative mindset around money. Part of it was believing also just the energy that you bring on to a discovery call or a sales call, if you’re telling yourself that making money is hard. And if you’re telling yourself that money is this finite resource, and there’s not enough to go around, then the energy you bring to that conversation is going to be rooted in this idea of lack of there not being enough versus this idea of abundance and possibility.

Bonnie 45:45
So when I made that shift, and I started calling myself out on that, and I started saying, Hey, we’re not bringing this energy to this conversation, because you’re not serving this lead well, and you’re not serving yourself, well, when you show up with that energy, I started going to these conversations, believing that if this is a great fit, and if this is going to be, you know, a true a true match of my services, and the transformation that I offer helps this, this potential client in the ways that they need help with then then you know, the money will flow like that will happen, that is something that’s that’s going to happen.

Bonnie 46:21
But if I go into this conversation, and I believe that, you know, because money is scarce, and I believe that I have to like hustle to get it, then it’s going to it’s going to feel like there’s this immense amount of pressure weighing down on me to book that client. And if I don’t book that client, then I started to feel a certain way about myself, and it’s not a good way. And so I find that on top of that thinking about, like what you were saying with approaching value. It’s important for us to remember as designers that the services that we provide, deliver a specific transformation to your clients.

Bonnie 46:58
So when you’re working with your clients, whether you’re building out a website, or you’re building a brand identity, or you’re doing any kind of you know, kind of like ala carte design, it’s not just the design work that you’re doing, you’re creating a set of assets or a set of tools, you’re creating deliverables, that are empowering your client to then go out there, if you’re working with fellow businesses, you’re going out there and you’re giving them the resources, they need to then connect of their ideal clients or customers for them to do business looking professional and polished and intentional and looking like the experts that they are and commanding that presence in their market.

Bonnie 47:35
So if we focus on the value that we are bringing to the table, it’s not about the dollars and cents, it’s about the value that you’re offering through the work that you do through the transformation that your design services provide. And that I find that’s kind of where the magic happens on these discovery calls or sales calls where your lead will see that they will, they will respond to that. And that’s what they want to invest in. They want to invest in the value of your services, and the investment that goes along with that the dollars and cents of your packages. That is sort of the secondary thought the first and foremost thought is how your services will help the person that you’re speaking with.

Josh 48:15
That leads me to this next question perfectly. What a segue, Bonnie, I wanted to talk about worth. And this is huge with the mindset of money, because what I found is a lot of web designers early on just like I experienced. First of all, they’re not sure how much they should charge mainly because they don’t know how much they want to make or how much maybe they quote unquote, should make. The reality is there is not some like ladder with design services where, okay, when you become a web designer, and the first year you make 25,000. And the second year you make 50, 30 or 75.

Josh 48:51
That’s not how it works. I have students who make over six figures within one year, but the difference is between them. And the folks who maybe hover at 10,000 is mainly mindset. But I think in all of that comes this idea of worth and how much are my services worth. And for example, I’m sure you’ve experienced this as a coach, and I’m not sure if you talk money with your with your students and how you help them set goals and stuff. But a lot of my students will for example, they might say I want to make, you know, like 30,000 this year. And I’ll always push them in and say like let’s shoot for 50.

Josh 49:28
And it was so cool because I had a rewarding experience of this and 2021 One of my students wanted to make 50 And I said let’s push for 55 You’re established enough. I really think you could well I don’t want to overwhelm you and say six figures it let’s just sue for 75 right in between there and she did it within the year in December she hit it. But I think it took me saying that you are worth that amount and your services. Can you maybe share your thoughts on worth and how creatives can maybe feel more calm often about their worst worth, even if they’re early on, because I really feel like even if you’re early on, as long as you know the fundamentals of whether it’s web design or brand strategy, graphic design, you’re still worth way more than you think you are. I’d love to hear your thoughts on that.

Bonnie 50:15
Absolutely. I think that this is something that inside the brand strategy school in my program for designers that we get into where we’re talking about the value based pricing approach, versus the hourly rate approach. And this is where I see a lot of designers, especially newer designers getting stuck is because you’re equating the value of your services, or you’re equating the worth of your services, to how many hours you’re clocking how many hours you’re pouring into actually Dizzy that to do that, that website design or that brand identity or that brand strategy.

Bonnie 50:52
And instead, if we focus on value based pricing, and just kind of in a nutshell, instead of looking at how many hours it takes you to create that those those assets or that final product, focusing on to your client to your lead to the person that wants to hire you to do this thing, how do they perceive value in terms of this project? And how do they define value, and then building out building out your services, building out your proposals, building out those invoices from there, and that’s always going to give you a more fulfilling kind of exchange of services and money versus trying to find some magic number of a magic hourly rate that, you know, that goes with your services.

Bonnie 51:39
I think that when we where I see a lot of people getting stuck, honestly is and I like how you talk about how it is the what their services are worth, not what they are worth, because where I see a lot of creators, especially getting stuck is we hear this advice all the time, or at least I see it a lot that tells us to charge our worth. And I think that charging our worth that idea doesn’t quite hit the mark. Because if we think about

Josh 52:09
It, it’s also hard to figure out, especially when you’re new, it’s it’s it

Bonnie 52:13
feels impossible, it feels impossible. And also, what kind of feels like a slippery slope is is if you follow that advice you’re trying to figure out like, all right, my brain, my knowledge, my skill set, what what dollar amount am I going to fix to that. And the truth about it is that each person, each individual is absolutely priceless. And we could never, ever, ever put a figure on what you are worth. But if we look at your services, and if we look at what your services are worth, and we practice value based pricing, then we can figure this out. And then we can get more strategic about these conversations we’re having with your leads and the way that you’re marketing your services, so that you can captivate the attention of the people who want to work with you, and who are willing to invest accordingly. Because they see that your services are in alignment with with their goals and the transformation that they want to experience.

Bonnie 53:09
But when you’re just getting started, and that feels really abstract, and you’re not quite sure how to actually get started with that, I would encourage you to focus on flipping your mindset from focusing on what other people are doing or how other people are pricing their services, because you don’t know what their behind the scenes look like. You don’t know what their overhead looks like you don’t know, actually taking any any kind of, you know, livable paycheck home at the end of the day. Instead thinking about knowing your financial need, knowing what the numbers are that you need to hit to pay your bills that you want to hit to put some aside for savings and for your own paycheck. And then thinking about what value can I add to my services? Not more time, not? How can I add more hours to my services? But what value can I add to my services that will help me consistently book at those levels that I want to be looking at?

Josh 54:05
Now, you talked a lot great stuff, by the way, gosh, it’s so good. You’ve talked a lot about transformation and results oriented type of services to really help with this whole mindset of money. That can also be really difficult for people early on, because I know I get this question all the time. A lot of my students who are early on, say, Well, I’m not sure what kind of results I can get yet at you know, I’m still learning. I just know the basics of SEO or conversion design. I haven’t done too many websites. I don’t know what kind of results I can honestly guarantee for clients.

Josh 54:35
So that really, I think breeds into the hardship of understanding your worth. How would you recommend those folks who are not 100% sure of their results? How would you what would your advice be to help them understand their worth? Even if they just even if they’re early on and they’re not sure about the results they’re gonna get?

Bonnie 54:57
Well, I would say if you’re just getting started and you don’t have that data yet. And you don’t quite know what sort of consistent results you’re able to deliver for other people, I would say, what results have you been able to generate for yourself? What kind of transformation? Have you created in building your own business? Or doing your own website? Or building your own branding? What kind of growth? Did you experience? Or what kind of, you know, increase in confidence? Did you experience or how did you feel once you walked through your process.

Bonnie 55:29
Because I think that designers are quick to forget that they are their first client, we’re our first client in a way. And when we know that, and when we carry that with us, instead of, you know, being being, you know, kind of sitting at it and looking at it from this place of like, oh, well, I don’t have a lot of clients, well, hey, you did this design work for yourself, you you built this brand, or this website, or these these digital assets for yourself.

Bonnie 55:55
So that’s, that’s worth something, that’s not the point. Um, and when you’re getting started to I don’t want to discredit, I don’t want people to sleep on the power and the potential of working with people like working with, with friends, or people you went to school with, or people that, you know, because you are in the same Facebook groups together, I don’t recommend working, I don’t recommend working for free, I don’t recommend that. Because the goal here is we’re wanting to build a sustainable business, not just a time consuming hobby. And I do believe that, when we’re working with people, there has to be an equal exchange of energy that’s happening.

Bonnie 56:37
So if you are taking on a project, and let’s say you choose to discount it, because you’re approaching it, kind of like a beta tester, right. This is like a beta tester type client who’s going through your process for the first time, instead of doing it for free, choosing to discount it, but there’s still money that’s being exchanged. So that your client in this instance, is showing up with the equal amount of importance and respect for you and the work that you’re doing, as you are for them, and the professionalism that you’re going to bring to that that exchange and that relationship to.

Bonnie 57:12
So it’s, it’s something where we all start somewhere, you know, I can look back to when I was getting my first clients. And it’s, it’s something that every single designer, even those that you look up to have all started from from scratch. And so that’s not, that’s not a bad place to be at, I want to say,

Josh 57:32
Well, I love that answer, you can start with yourself. And it takes me back to a conversation I just had earlier this week, with a new student of mine who said they don’t have much confidence or not sure what to charge, they only have a few clients. This, that thought you just said really resonated with me with this, because I think I told them in the email. If you get three clients, that is plenty enough to go off of with confidence and measuring results. Because what you can do for one person you can do for two, and what you do for two people, you can do for three, and you can do for five, then you could do for 10. And you could do for 50.

Josh 58:09
Like, I think there’s so much value that people often overlook myself included for years with what you can do with just a few case studies with a few clients or people or projects you’ve worked on. There is really so much untapped potential and room for understanding your value. And your worth, with just a couple of projects you may have done. So I just really want to harp on that. Because I think for people who only have a few clients, they feel like I’m you know, I’ve got colleagues who have 100 web design clients, but like you said, Bonnie, who knows what that looks like, maybe they’re that maybe they’re not being serious, or maybe they’re not being completely honest about their numbers, or maybe they have a team and an agency and they have overhead or they have a lot of stresses that you don’t necessarily need or want to take on. I think that’s a big component to this mindset, and busting these these mindsets that we you know, often keep us at a certain place or keep us from growing.

Josh 59:03
So that’s great. We’ve talked a lot about the money mindset, and oh, gosh, I could talk about that for days just with what I’ve learned and perceived value and worth. And I think you’re right, it really comes into play when you’re selling. Because if you feel confident about your value, even on the low end, it really makes all the difference. I’ve talked more and more recently about how you can measure results with web design in particular. I just as kind of an aside, I’d love to know from you. How do you measure brand success and brand strategy because for me as a web design coach, when people asked how do you measure if a website’s working, the simple version is you can look at contact form submissions you can look at bounce rate you can look at pageviews you can look at how many sales that people said they came to the website those are easy metrics. brand strategy might be different so I’m just I’m really curious how do you measure brand strategy success, quote unquote?

Bonnie 59:59
I love this question because you’re right that the two are different where, like, if you’re building out a website, you can go and you can look at all these specific analytics and brand strategy, I find that the analytics are a little bit more big picture. But actually, there are some similarities. So for example, I know that a brand that the strategy is resonating and the identity is resonating. When we see an increase in sales, when we look at the number of clients booked or, or sales made, I like to look at because with the design work, and just to kind of share a little bit about the way that my business is structured, not only do I coach designers, but I also still take on my own one on one brand design clients.

Bonnie 1:00:44
And so when I’m working with them, and I look at their businesses, the majority of them are coming to me and we are going through a full rebrand. We’re not necessarily branding from scratch. So I like to look at how much were we able to raise rates? Did we raise your rates? Did your prices increase after launching? When we look at the goals that we set at the start of our work together? Were you able to achieve those goals? How quickly were you able to achieve those goals. And you know, I could like go into all the nitty gritty with this.

Bonnie 1:01:17
But I think that where and what I find this more with, with creatives who aren’t as familiar with the design industry, and aren’t as familiar with brand strategy, but it’s more than just, you know, like having a beautiful logo and having those identity systems in place that you can implement throughout your online or your print presence. But it’s also knowing about how that strategy and how that visual identity is empowering you to achieve those goals that you’ve said.

Bonnie 1:01:48
So with that being said, I love thinking about this in a way where a sign of a successful and an OnPoint brand strategy that is truly empowering your client to achieve their goals is one that is going to help them connect with their ideal clients consistently raise their rates see an increase in sales and experience. I like to think of this as an experience and the overall sense of fulfillment or happiness or ease that they’re experiencing in their business. So not only is it impacting their bottom line, but they’re actually enjoying doing that, that work. They’re enjoying working with those new clients, and they’re enjoying that process, too.

Josh 1:02:29
I know one metric early on that I always told clients is before I thought about looking at the other metrics, like contact form submission, sales, whatever it is just are you excited to share your website. And that really got a lot of my clients are getting excited, because previously, they’d be like, Oh, don’t don’t go to my website, and how detrimental that could be to sales. Whereas if it really excited to send people there that in itself could could be a metric to view as a success for web design in some way.

Josh 1:02:57
So that will Yeah, that’s an interesting answer. I was just really curious, because I’m sure it’s a little more difficult to pinpoint if a customer said like, I really liked your social media graphic. And that’s what brought me here. And that’s what got me here. You know, I was kind of curious how brand strategy, how you how you can measure success and stuff because or results because I’m sure that contributes to mindsets for for yourself and a lot of your students as well. Gosh, awesome stuff. But I can’t leave this has been an hour already. How are you? Do you have a few more minutes to wrap up?

Bonnie 1:03:27
Yeah, for sure.

Josh 1:03:28
Okay, so I have one big question for you. I’ll save it to the end. But so we’ve talked about money. We’ve talked about some personal stuff. I have one final question. But I want I want to put the kind of ball in your court. Is there like one area of mindset struggles that we have not addressed yet that you would love to touch on?

Bonnie 1:03:48
Um, I think that I would say looking at confidence. So again, kind of, you know, we talked, we’ve touched on this a little bit. But one mindset that I see people buying into that’s holding them back, it’s kind of a limiting mindset is that I don’t have enough experience to go after six figures. I don’t know enough, I’m not smart enough. I’m not talented enough to go after six figures.

Bonnie 1:04:15
And then another one is just kind of disbelief. And it really goes along with what you were saying about knowing how to prioritize and knowing how to prioritize the right actions. a limiting belief that I see a lot of designers buy into is that the more the more work that they do, the more services they have, the more you know, options that they have to their their packages, that is going to be what gets them to six figures versus honing in on the things that they enjoy doing that they can sustainably do over and over again and scaling that way.

Josh 1:04:50
That’s a good point. Yeah. And it kind of goes back to this whole conversation of all these different things. I think the trap that most entrepreneurs nowadays fall into is that too Just like what we talked about early on, there’s so many opportunities. And there are so many voices and so many channels and so many people, you can learn from that it’s almost so overwhelming that I’ve found you have to reel yourself in and just focus on a few things.

Josh 1:05:14
And my, I’ve learned the power of three and everything in regards to like how many services you have, how many types of people you help how many coaches or programs you’re in whatever it is, whatever works for you, would you back me up and saying that maybe one of the most important things nowadays is to just hone in on what you’re good at what you enjoy, and keep yourself from the the shiny object syndrome and just doing too many things is I found that to be detrimental, personally, and for a lot of my students

Bonnie 1:05:44
100%. And well, when I look at my new students who are joining the brand strategy school when they first come to me, and we’re the first joining, I see that so many of them have gotten stuck in this, this kind of belief of in order for me to hit consistent, you know, 10k months, in order for me to hit my first six figure year, I need to do all of these things, I need to have all these different services, I need to be on all these different marketing platforms and all the social platforms. And what that does is it keeps them really busy. But it keeps them burnt out. Because that’s exhausting trying to be creating all this marketing content or trying to deliver on all these different services that don’t complement one another.

Bonnie 1:06:24
So I definitely recommend what what you’re saying, focusing on narrowing down so that you’re able to do a few things really well. And then when you get to a point where you’re able to maybe automate those things, or you’re able to streamline them more, if you want to do more, you can and I think about this, especially when it comes to like marketing your design business, I don’t recommend being on, you know, like 10 Different platforms and having your blog and your podcast and your email list and your Tik Tok and your Instagram and your Twitter and no, that’s exhausting.

That will keep you absolutely busy but I’m not convinced that that will keep you as profitable as you want to be. – Bonnie

Bonnie 1:07:01
So what I recommend doing is focusing on one or two places where you know, your ideal client is creating consistent content, they’re creating consistent leads from that platform. And then when you get to the point where that’s at a good place, and it’s running like a well oiled machine, and you know what actions you need to take to see the results you want to see. Automate that to an extent if you can, and then play with something else added another marketing Avenue. Add in something else that you want to do that seems interesting, but don’t don’t get overwhelmed and burnt out and permanently exhausted by trying to do everything all at once. Because that will keep you absolutely busy. But I’m not convinced that that will keep you as profitable as you want to be.

Josh 1:07:48
Right. Yeah, everyone who I’ve talked to who is a balanced, or should we say integrated type of entrepreneur has said the same thing. They’re not everywhere. And they don’t try to be everywhere they and honestly is the same approach that I have with this business. I started with a YouTube channel. And I posted one tutorial a week for 12 weeks. That was my content for the first go around. I felt comfortable with that. I did more tutorials. And I added more email. And then I eventually created my podcast. And then I just now created my Instagram like

Josh 1:08:19
For years people would say what’s your Instagram, I was like, I don’t have one. And I’m not interested right now I just don’t have the time for it. More recently, I felt like I wanted to play around with it. I knew a lot of my students were there. And I’m loving it. I have I mean, at this point, I just have, like under 400 followers, but I really enjoy it. And I’m creating deeper connections with those 400. And a lot of them are in my coaching community. So they’re like, those are my people, you know.

Josh 1:08:41
So it just goes to show you you can do one step at a time. Yeah, I mean, I would say you could just start with one and then add that second one when you feel good and, and there’s no there’s no rush to do all those two, I think a lot of people feel maybe it comes from that hustle culture that they need to do so much so quick. And the reality is I I’ll go back to a meeting I had with a successful business entrepreneur, who told me there’s no rush to success there’s no rush to do what you want to you know what you want to do? I mean, if you have a certain amount you need to make to to provide for your family or your goal, then yeah, you want to take the steps to hit that but if you don’t, you know like there’s no reason to hit seven figures right now you’re not ready for seven figures.

Josh 1:09:24
That’s kind of where I’ve I feel like I am like I I’ve had some people say you’re gonna go for seven figures. I just don’t I don’t need to do that right now. That’s I don’t know that’s that’s definitely how I feel like I’m content with where I’m at where where I want to go practically and I’m self aware of like the lifestyle changes I’m not going to break and the things that my business and I’m not going to take advantage of so anyway, I just feel like that’s big with the mindset of you know, all these all these things when it comes to the pressures and goals and stuff like that so well. I think we could talk for three hours here Bonnie, I want to be respectful of your time. I do have one final question. Before we get to that, though, where would you like everyone to go? To find out more about you? And is there a certain resource maybe we should link to?

Bonnie 1:10:09
Absolutely. So if you want to connect and follow along and send me a DM, Instagram is where I spend the majority of my time. So you can find me at Bonnie Joy Marie over on Instagram. And if you know what we talked through today, if something resonated with you, or if you have a question or just want to say, hey, my DMs are always open, so feel free to send me a message and I love connecting with new people. And in terms of a resource, we’ve been talking today, a lot about mindset.

Bonnie 1:10:38
And if you want to kind of take it one step further and dive into some of the specific actions that I took when growing my business from this kind of struggling accident entrepreneur to this sought after six plus figure entrepreneur, then I actually have a free training where I walk through ways that you can exponentially increase the income in your business without adding more work, hustle or overwhelm to your plate. So you can actually go to be is for Barney design.com/training and get access to that on demand. masterclass.

Josh 1:11:14
Awesome. Awesome. Yeah, we’ll have that linked. I didn’t even ask you because you’re a golden retriever, mom, right?

Bonnie 1:11:19
Yes. You said you have to Golden’s.

Josh 1:11:21
I thought so I was just looking at your site. And I forgot about and I saw at the bottom. Yeah, I have a six year old and the time of recording this an eight month old. So yeah, that’s been a change in the family. But the little ones definitely a little more rotten than the older one. She’s just the wild playful one as our most younger siblings, but she’s adorable and sweet. So yeah, I was curious.

Josh 1:11:48
All right, Bonnie was awesome. Last question. Just give me a give me a quick answer, if you would. What is the biggest mindset limitation that most of your students struggle with? And how would you say we’d have what have we? How would we avoid that as we wrap this up? Is there like a common is there like a common one that most people seemed like, for me, I think it’s the worst thing. That’s, that’s the one that more and more students have asked about is they feel like they’re not worth that we’ve already addressed that. So I want to know if there’s a common one that you’ve seen.

Bonnie 1:12:18
Absolutely. So when I kind of like pull back and look at it from more of like a kind of wide angle of view versus really, really zoomed in what I see as kind of common theme that is just threaded throughout. So many of my new students, so many of the designers inside my free Facebook community. It’s this idea that we need someone’s permission, we need the tools or the roadmap or the game plan to know how to do business the right way. And where I see that coming in, actually, it manifests itself in this underlying mindset that I can’t trust myself that I don’t know enough that I don’t have enough resources.

Bonnie 1:13:10
And what we focus on shifting that to and this is something that I encourage every human to focus on is reinforcing the belief that you can trust yourself, and that you make good decisions, and that you don’t need anyone elses permission or a game plan or a how to tutorial in order to grow your business. Because although and I’m sure that you can relate to this, too, although we’re coaches, and we’re educators, and we share what we know in order to help others. What works for us may not work for everyone else. And there’s no like quick fix. There’s no like magic magic wand, it’s all different.

Bonnie 1:13:52
And I find that really beautiful because it’s just, gosh, there’s so much possibility out there and how you want to grow your business and how you want to serve your clients and what you want your design services to look like. So remember that you can always trust yourself to make decisions that serve you well, whether that looks like going out and getting support, or whether that looks like you know diving into a season of intentional hustle, whatever that looks like you can absolutely trust yourself to make good decisions.

Josh 1:14:21
That’s great advice. I actually needed to hear that as a fellow coach because I’ve that’s the been my biggest struggle as a coach is I am like, this is what I did. This is what worked for me, this is what I would recommend based off of what I know about you, but it might look a little bit different. And there’s nothing worse for me as a coach as we wrap this up, then telling somebody or advising somebody to do something and then it doesn’t work. I’m like, well now I feel terrible. And that’s what worked for me. But also sometimes it just takes more time just due to personality differences or confidence or whatever. Like maybe I sell better in a networking group than somebody who’s not as confident you know at that point in the career but Um, yeah, you’re so right that that can be a big, especially on the coaching side of things.

Josh 1:15:04
So we’re all different, but I love what you said there. That is a beautiful thing because we can take what has worked for everybody else and we can craft our own path. So, all right, Bonnie, this has been awesome. Definitely everyone check out BS for body design.com/training for your masterclass, thanks so much for taking some extra time. And I really enjoyed this combo. I had a good time because I can’t wait to hear how this helps some folks out.

Bonnie 1:15:27
Absolutely. This has been such a blast. I’m so grateful that we got to dive into so many different concepts around mindset and ideas and just you know, really everything that we got to explore today. So thanks so much for having me on the show. And I’m really, really grateful for the opportunity to share this with your amazing audience.

Josh 1:15:47
Awesome. Yeah, I have no idea what I’m going to call this now. But by golly, I’ll think of something. We’ll get a good title out of this one for sure. Thanks so much, Bonnie.

Bonnie 1:15:54
Thank you.

 

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