Super excited to bring back on one of my very favorite people in the WordPress and web design realm.
You likely know Jimmy Rose as the founder of Content Snare which I highly recommend you use to automate your Content Collection. As we all know, this is one of the biggest hurdles in web design.
You’ve also likely heard him talk a lot about automation. Those are kind of the two most popular topics that Jimmy is known for. Because Jimmy came from the web design world, started specifically for web designers and digital agencies collecting content.
But over the years, he’s found out that more and more accountants, bookkeepers, law firms, colleges and finance people started using Content Snare.
All with no intentional marketing.
To them, it’s just a tool that ended up providing a lot of solutions for all the issues and challenges that they had.
So what Jimmy and Content Snare have done more recently is not rebranded their business but they’ve just kind of repositioned their tool to work for all these different niches.
I really feel that Jimmy and his team at content snare have done it right so I’m excited to see what you learn from this and how you can apply it to your business.
In this episode:
00:00 – Introduction
04:31 – Greeting to Jimmy
07:10 – How Content Snare started
09:28 – The biggest problem
11:54 – Partnership strategy
15:19 – Niche research
19:27 – Same info, different lingo
24:50 – A rare Aha moment
27:25 – Finding the higher value
36:16 – The truth of “ZAPier”
37:27 – Fighting imposter syndrome
41:54 – Networking benefits
44:06 – New industry surprises
50:14 – A fresh start
56:08 – Learn the language
Connect with Jimmy:
- Content Snare
- Zapier Mastery Course with Special Deal
- Jimmy’s Instagram
- Jimmy’s LinkedIn
- Jimmy’s Facebook Page
Featured links mentioned:
- Podcast Episode #013 – Automating Your Business to Create More Free Time with Jimmy Rose
- Podcast Episode #057 – Collecting Content From Your Web Design Clients
- TextExpander – Your Shortcut to Efficient, Consistent Communication
- Ignition | Create Proposals Online & Win New Clients
- Integromat – Achieve more in less time with fewer people
Episode #182 Full Transcription
Hello, friends. Welcome into Episode 182. Super excited to bring back on one of my very favorite people in the WordPress and web design realm. This is Jimmy rose, you likely know him as the founder of Content Snare, which is the platform and the tool that I use for collecting content from clients and that I highly recommend you use as well to automate your Content Collection, which as we all know, is one of the biggest hurdles in web design. You’ve also likely heard him talk a lot about automation. Those are kind of the two most popular topics that Jimmy is known for.
However, I wanted to bring him back onto the podcast to specifically talk about going niche, but not getting out of your previous industry that that you helped out. And here’s what I mean by that content snare because Jimmy came from the web design world started specifically for web designers and digital agencies collecting content. But over the years, he’s found out that more and more accountants and bookkeepers started using contents there, there were law firms and colleges and higher education places there were like mortgage and finance people that started using content snare, all with no intentional marketing. To them, it’s just a tool that ended up you know, providing a lot of solutions for all the issues that the challenges that they had.
So what Jimmy and Content Snare have done more recently is not rebranded their their business but they’ve just kind of reposition their tool to work for all these different niches. And the reason I wanted to talk about this and kind of a deep dive case study type style interview is because a lot of you I know a lot of you are going through this because I’m having these conversations every week about those of you who want to go niche and know that you maybe you came from a world that you know a lot about and you know a lot of clients and potential clients in that realm but you don’t want to necessarily just do projects in that niche you still want to be able to take on other projects and other industries.
Jimmy and content snare have done it right and you’ll hear in this episode where you can find out more and how you can see literally what they’ve done on their website to kind of tweak the copy and messaging to to position yourself for these different industries. There’s a lot of different ways to go about this but I really feel that Jimmy and his team at content snare have done it right so I’m excited to see what you learn from this and how you can apply it to your business as well if you want to go niche without you know blowing up all of your other relationships with different clients in different industries.
And before we dive in, I do want to say again, I still stand by content snare for web designers and if you want to limit the hassle and all the issues you’re having with Content Collection, it is an amazing tool. This is not a like pay promotion or anything but I am an affiliate for them go to Josh hall.co/content snare and you can sign up for a free trial to check it out. I highly recommend it it’s awesome and here’s Jimmy or we’re going to take a deep dive into what they’ve learned with going niche but not fully going niche.
Jimmy Welcome back onto the podcast round three man how’s it going?
Man it’s doing doing great and it’s it’s awesome to be back here for number three that’s like what’s your record so far?
Number you are you’re up there I think I think Tim strife ler with Divi life has been on three times I think you and him so far are the only three Pete’s, but
I’ll take it.
Every time I talk with you, man. I get inspired I get pumped up I learned We I was just learning some stuff before we went live about YouTube strategy. Like you always have awesome stuff to say. And I wanted to bring you back on particularly, to talk about what you’re going through with content snare right now, and specifically, how you kind of found a new market in your new niche that you didn’t really expect.
And I think this is really interesting, because a lot of web designers are finding that too. They think they know who they want to target. And then a year later, they’re like, Oh, I’m actually discovering that this industry or this category of people, and I end up really resonating whether they need my services. So I’m really excited to dive back in and again, I appreciate you jumping on James, it’s early for you. I think it’s just after 7am at this point. I feel bad. I think every time I’ve had you on, you’ve been, you know, first thing in the morning. So one of these days, by golly, I’ll get up early for you. Or stay up late.
Yeah, but then it’ll be like it’ll like it probably be late at night or something for me. Like this is the only time that works for East Coast, Australia with East Coast, US, you know, or anywhere in the US. Really, it is what it is. I’m up every day at this time. The downsides of a global business, I guess.
Let’s start there, man. For folks who maybe don’t know yet. By the way, are you still sticking with Jimmy or you’re dealing with professional folks? I didn’t know if you changed it back to James. So sticking with Jimmy,
Ah man, it’s one of the silliest decisions I ever made to make my email address James at because like, now I feel like I’m like I’m halfway in between them. James on some things. And Jimmy on others.
Yeah. Well, that’s why I’m still trying to get Jimmy James to catch on. So I’m gonna stick with that. But yeah, man, for folks who don’t know, you do want to just let us know where you’re based out of and then just tell us a little bit about Content Snare and where you guys are at right now?
Yeah, sure. So where we’re at where we’re based out of is Australia, if it wasn’t clear, from my accent, but yeah, I’m, I’m James. Jimmy, I’ve been building software products for geez, I’m feeling I feel so old, like, almost 13 years at this point.
So you started when you were eight years old? Yeah.
Yeah, since 2009, I think we started building the first one. And we actually sold that recently, finally, finally off our books. So we’ve only focusing finally, just on Content Snare now, which is nice. Yeah, we’ve had an agency throughout that in the middle as well in around 2014. And we started content snare, because we had so much trouble getting content from clients, and will end because a lot of other web designers I knew had this exact same problem. So we thought, You know what, we’ll build some software to try and help with this and try and solve this problem.
That kind of happened accidentally, we just fell into it. – Jimmy
So that’s how contact snare started was basically collecting website content from clients, you know, so when you need like, a team page might need bios and images and whatever on the homepage, you can collect the actual wording, because everyone’s sick of chasing clients back and forth for info. So that’s why we built that. And I guess, you know, to transition to what we’re going to be talking about here is we’ve found so basically, any business with clients can use contents now. We’ve We’ve got like 30 Different industries using us now. But we’ve chosen to focus on accounting and bookkeeping as our next major niche. That kind of happened accidentally, we just fell into it. As we found accountants were finding the product all by themselves.
Well, I mean, obviously, content scenario is the number one tool I recommend for Content Collection. I love it. I love being on the recipient end of it. As a speaker for some summits, I’ve been a part of the Designer Boss Summit, which is one of my favorites to be a part of, they use content snare, and it just makes the process for the customer like seamless. But what’s interesting about that, as you’re right, it’s like that’s not something that is solely for web designers or creative industries. These other industries are collecting content in terrible ways, like real estate agents. CPAs, I think about all the people that I work with in my professional network, and I’m like, I actually I feel stupid, but I can’t believe I haven’t recommended content snare to my like personal network, I need to start doing that. I just didn’t think about I thought it was only for web designers. So maybe that’s a good it’s a good note to say right up at the top that content snare is not just for web designers. It’s for everybody.
It’s you and right there you’ve hit on something that is one of our biggest problems. like I know people that know our product intimately, know what we do and never thought that it could be used for anything else. You know, like it’s that they go oh, oh, you got accounts using oh my god, of course. Yeah, my accountant could use it for this and this you know that they joined the dots and it’s, and it kind of ties into our other major problem is that everyone has this problem, but no one’s looking for a solution. And no one’s like very few people are going like our clients want send me information, how do I fix it? You know, they’re not typing anything into Google like some people are, but, and then we show up for those things.
However, it’s a problem that people just kind of assume is a part of doing business. If you need information clients, you’ve got to send them an email and ask them for the thing or get them to fill out a document no matter how rubbish the what comes back is and how many times you got to chase them up. People just assume that’s how it is. And it’s our clients are awful after keep chasing them. Yeah, so that’s kind of one of their biggest problems, we’ll probably probably our biggest problem is that no one really joins the dots and goes, I can use that for XYZ.
Yeah, it seems so simple. But I think maybe just when you’re used to it being a web design product like I am, I don’t think about it breaking outside of those boundaries. But you’re right. And the cool thing about the product that you have, and one reason I’m extra excited to talk about this, James is because the first episode you were on, which was 13, you were one of my first guess, was about automating and automating things in your business. You’re huge on automation. And then you are on on 57, about content collection. So if anyone has not listened to Episode 57, in particular, I highly recommend that about Content Collection.
But those two things are what has led you to where you guys are at today with your business, which is automating things and collecting content on time. That’s where you’re at. Now you like you said you’re kind of pivoting niches industries. I mean, obviously, it is for everyone, but how are you with this idea of solving the challenges for automating things and collecting content? How are you? How are you positioning yourself? Now? Are you like, how are you strategically going to the bookkeepers and people who, you know, you’re finding or kind of taking over your client base? I have a couple questions on this. But let’s just start there, like how are you positioning yourself different now?
Yeah, so I mean, we aren’t. It’s funny, because really the only work for us, the main thing is that we changing our more like a partnership and marketing strategy. sales strategy is really like, you know, for marketing, buy and marketing. Yeah. So like before, we would create a lot of content for web designers, you know, to try and get people that, you know, to click on that content, or to find us through SEO, or whatever. And then eventually, like, you know, sign up for our email list and convert them through anyway, right, whether it’s through email list or through, they just find us in your I need that product that you sell for a trial. Right.
So that was like the, how it worked before with web designers, the way we really are, and, and lots and lots of partnerships, right. So, you know, I got to know people like you, and Brad Morrison and Cliff Almeyda. And like all these people that run products or services or whatever, for web designers, that’s always been my game is just getting to know people. That’s why I had my podcast, you know, I could meet these awesome people, and they would find out about us. And
You also came from the web design world. So it makes sense that you start your business with who you know, and who you’re connected with.
Yeah, exactly. Right. Yeah. And it was, it was pretty easy for me to create content in those early days, because I would just shared the things that I knew, because I didn’t plan on running my web design business forever, I was happy to like give away the farm, right. And when you can just write down everything that you do. You know, that’s content that actually sort of cuts through all the noise. I think that’s something I wrote that wrote about this in my newsletter the other day is just like, don’t create content for the sake of content actually, just like try to create good stuff, and local, sometimes all you gotta do is pour out what you know, and it’s good content, you know.
Anyway, really, I’ve just pivoted all that stuff, to accounting now, because that’s what worked for us before its content and partnerships, basically. So now, we create a lot of content for accounts. And soon we’ll split up our blog intellect to separate blogs, one for like, agencies and one for accountants. And, and then the kind of partners that I’m reaching out to so, you know, I kind of felt like, I’d saturated the web design world, at least to my ability, like, you know, I felt like I knew all the people that I wanted to know, like yourself and then people I mentioned before, and I was like, I don’t even like there are some like, players with really big audiences that just felt like way out of my league and that were kind of in I just, they weren’t the kind of people I really wanted to know either.
Well see you met me and came on the Josh Hall web design show then just all went downhill from there man. This is definitely the pinnacle I think that’s what you’re trying to get at.
Well, I would actually say you are the pinnacle not even gonna lie because you are like the most one of the most approachable people and you have a massive following like that often doesn’t go hand in hand man like it’s because like it’s awesome what you’ve built. It’s amazing because like I see a lot of these other quote unquote influencers. I hate that word, but you know, and they become very unapproachable. People and like, as soon as you talk to them, they’ll be like, Oh, I’d like $7,000 for me to interview you, or whatever I was like, okay, like, like, not not doing that. You know, this stuff exists in the accounting world to actually but.
I appreciate that, by the way, man, that’s awesome.
It’s true. But anyway, so in accounting, we’re just doing the same thing. But they’re, you know, so we create, find keywords accountants are searching for and try to create content around that. And reaching out to lots of partners like I created. I’ve always had this like spreadsheet of people that I wanted to know. And the web design world, I just did the same thing and accounting for a lot, a lot of research. And what slowly,
Yeah, oh, sorry, go ahead.
It’s really just slowly a process of reaching out to all those people, and then you find they start knowing each other. So you get like ways into you know, we’ve already got a partnership going with, like an absolute darling of a company in Australia that you can’t say anything bad about because they’re like, loved that much. And everyone knows who they are. Practice Ignition. Like, you don’t have to hide it. But they’re like a really big product used by paid basically every accountant in Australia knows who they are. And, you know, so that’s that’s what our strategy is now is like finding getting out partnerships down with companies like that.
Gotcha. And I know at the time of recording this, you recently redesigned the the content snare site. And obviously you’re not not working with digital agencies or web designers. It just as a part of the the, the, the client industry lists like on your homepage you have? What is it that you do and people can select digital agency, accounting and bookkeeping, law firms, higher education, or mortgage and finance, which is genius. I think that’s actually, for anyone who is working with a few different niches or niches that you guys say niche down on.
Anyone who has different niches, we’ll stick with nieces on this one? That is a great example of what to do like funnel them now, on your website, James, without clicking through on these? Do these pages have different information? Like do those landing pages speak the language of digital agencies versus bookkeeping? Is that how you kind of funnel the different niches?
Yeah, so I mean, a big part of it is also just like wanting to know how many people click each one. So you can see the traffic pretty easily there when you’ve got a whole other page for it. But also, yeah, they are all separate, they just have slightly different language. So we’ve already been through a copywriting process. Jeez, it was like a year ago now when we were kind of trying to decide, because we didn’t just pick accountants. So that’s probably something we can talk about is like, we had like five industries we were looking at going into, and it wasn’t like something had a few things happened that made us focus on accounting.
But yeah, so we’ve got a pretty good idea. Now after interviewing lots and lots of customers, you know, and people that I knew who were in each industry like mortgage brokers, I spoke to a guy that does like asset finance. So he gets like finance for cars and business assets, you know, about what he would use contact snare for and what he didn’t didn’t like, you know, so I had so many conversations, to be able to pull out all of the language that you see on each individual landing page.
And the cool thing for anyone who we’re going to obviously this is a an audio, I mean, it’s video on YouTube, but we’re not going to screenshare anything, but I do want to encourage everyone to go to content snare.com And see how you have this funnel setup. I wasn’t even anticipating doing this, I actually didn’t even know you redesign the site till we went live today. But the reason I want to hone in on this is because I get so many questions about going that shared niche. And a lot of my students in particular, don’t want to go into one industry quite yet, because they may be new, and they like working with different types of clients, like I did, I was a generalist, and I really enjoyed that.
But I think we all at this point, know the power of going niche and really focusing on one or a few different categories of industries or businesses. This is the way to do it. You have five different main categories of clients. And then there is information on those landing pages that are catered to that client and what their challenges and struggles might be. But there’s also a lot of like global information there too, right? Like, it looks like you have a lot of the same sections that are repeated across those different pages about Content Snare the tool, maybe some testimonials, is that kind of how you have those formatted?
Yeah, the page is the same. It’s just the content that’s different. It’s a duplicated page with different words in each section. You know, so instead of talking about collecting website content, we talk about, you know, Client Onboarding documents and of your tax documents, like you know, we talked about their specific, it’s, they have all the exact same problems, right, like chasing clients socks, they send the wrong things. You’ve got to chase them for months. You know, when they send the wrong thing. You’ve got to start off like email them and tell them what’s wrong and they’ll send the wrong thing back again. I like and as, you know, everyone’s got the same problems. It’s just they might use different language like a lot of people say data collection. For some reason, even though to me that’s more of like, something when you collect lots and lots of data is in like a survey or something. But a lot of people say this is like client data collection, you know, so I’ve got to try and weave those words in there. Basically.
That’s interesting. That’s a good point. That’s a really good point. People speak the same challenge in different lingos are different.
Oh, my God,
Especially as you guys are global. Like, you’re not just working with Ozzy clients, like you mentioned in the beginning. You’re kind of used to doing early calls, because you’re working with people on the East Coast. I mean, do you have do you have West Coast clients in the states and people all over the world?
There’s definitely a power in niching. – Jimmy
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. But I guess on that note, it’s interesting, because partnerships, almost niching to Australia as well, in a way like, like I’m doing, I’m presenting at a bookkeeping virtual conference for in the US tomorrow, right. But a lot of the partnerships and people I’m reaching out to all Aziz, because there’s definitely a power in niching. Even there, right, because everyone knows each other. So now, it’s like, when I talk to someone, so a lot of the time, they’re like, I heard about you from XYZ.
This other other business, you know, like, so, because an accountant or especially, I was gonna say, like, oh, the word is like, it’s not bad at this, it’s like, they’re, they want to, they want to have a lot of touch points before they really look into something they want to know, lots of people using the products, they want to know that it’s recommended by people they trust, more so than I think agencies and freelancers are much more Trailblazer, you know, they’re just a new tool, I’m going to give it a go. Rounds want to know, people are using it.
And so that that effect, where you’ve got, everyone’s starting to hear about it in is really powerful. And when so if you’re in the ER of people that know each other, that’s a lot easier. So that like, in a way, we’re kind of niching down on location there, even though and I guess what I want to stress here, the product isn’t changing, like, sorry, it is like we are putting features in but the definitely, I’m more used by accountants necessarily then than web designers. But there’s not a lot because developments very slow. But marketing can change quite quickly, you know, we can build a new website, and reach out to people very quickly. You know, so really under, underneath, it’s all the same product. So you know, you can still build out the same services for your clients, you know, same you still building a website, whatever. But you just change the front end the marketing and who you’re talking to.
It reminds me of I forget what book this was, it’s probably in a lot of books, there was a famous example of a a, like a insect spray company that had kill all the insects, it was like an all in one insect spray. And it was like Home Depot and all these stores. I think this was a US based company, and their sales tanked. And they realized that when people have like an ant problem or a bee problem or a wasp problem, they’re not looking for an all in one, they just they’re looking for like the killer, or Ant Killer, or whatever it is.
So, all they did was take the exact same formula. And then label just like kind of what you did here, some more niche, it was like Ant Killer spray, loss, killer spray, and then their sales went crazy, exact same product, just different labels. And it was funny, I actually, years ago, I did graphic design for a cleaning solution company. That was like cleaning supplies for bathrooms for restaurants and stuff. And they did the same thing. They had like three different products. And I asked what the difference was, and they were like they kind of pulled me inside. And they were like, it’s actually the exact same formula. This one’s just toilet cleaner. This one’s floor cleaner, this one’s wall cleaner, because it all you know, it cleans the same, but you have to do it separately.
So I say that to say that’s the importance of like, even if it’s the same product, labeling things a little bit different to make it appear like it’s, it’s for that niche. I want to ask you that. So I am curious about how accountants in particular came into the picture here. So let’s dive into that. I have a really important question about getting into a new industry, because you’re meeting new people, very different people again, you said accountants, shocker, are probably going to be pretty cautious. They’re the bean counters are the ones who are going to be slow to act, they need to see results.
They’re anti like me, and most web designers were like, oh, a new cool 500 bucks or let’s try it out. They’re not like that. So I don’t know. I know that’s not the price point of contests there right now, but I just I just spent 500 bucks on a new tool to try it out recently so that but most accounts are going to do that. So where did this come into play for you? What was was there like a couple moments where accounting and bookkeeping seem to was the aha moment that this was like the new market you want to?
There really was the very rarely in my life. People ask about you know those kinds of things and like very rarely as an actual aha moment, but with accounting there was so We were trying to decide on a niche and niche for probably a good six months, you know, like we were, we had, we were setting up multiple landing pages, we were running ads to different industries to try and see how they responded to them just Facebook ads. Because there’s not a lot of search volume for what we do. So Google ads aren’t really a good option.
But yeah, so we were looking at, like, you know, looking at our client base and going, you know, who spends the most money who’s sticky like, who hangs around the longest you know, like, who doesn’t churn basically and you know, we had like, some mortgage and I found a product like a somewhat competing products, you’re gonna think different New Zealand’s. And they were really big on mortgage brokers, you know, so I was like, wow, like, mortgage brokers are using these guys in droves. Like, maybe that’s what we need to do, like, instead of reinventing the wheel, why don’t we just do that.
But I found, like, a couple of our features didn’t really align with what mortgage brokers needed, it was gonna be a while before we got to that point. So it was kind of like a process of elimination for a little bit, right. And, you know, I spoke to lawyers that I knew. And they were like, don’t do lawyers were all too backwards. We’re like, we want one product that does everything in our business, even if it doesn’t all, like half off. You know, and when, like, slow to adopt tech, and, you know, I talk to an accountant who said the exact same thing about his, like, accounting brethren, you know, and because I also couldn’t see it with accounting, I was like, Oh, look, my account doesn’t need that much information from me.
You know, why would they? Why would they need to use content snare? Turns out, I’m just one of them more ideal clients, because I end up speaking to them our bookkeepers or whatever, later on, and they’re just like, Yeah, well, you just give us everything we need on time. And it’s easy. Not you’re like one of our best clients. I was like, oh, okay, that makes sense.
So anyway, so I wrote off accounts early on, and you know, then we were talking to higher education institutions, they sounded really good, because they’re big, and they’re like, prestigious organizations and whatever. But there’s not many of them. So they’re very hard to target. So this was like, we just went through every single thing as like, how easy are they to get to, you know, how much money they got to spend, you know, and try to create some criteria around each niche, and then score everyone based on that. I can tell you accountants didn’t win that I think, I think mortgage brokers did. And we targeted them for a while, we found out the thing with the features and whatever.
And what ended up happening is, I was like, You know what, I’m just gonna give accountants ago because I heard a couple of people say it would be good for them. And we ran some Facebook ads. And just it’s actually a local dude here in Brisbane signed up look, Sora ad and sign up for a paid account on 100 bucks US a month. That day, which had literally never happened in web design world, like we used to have a $9 a month plan, it was a ship fight to get anyone even to sign up. Sorry, I didn’t ask about your swearing policy. But yeah, you can say yeah, like if it felt like it was a flight to get people to sign up for nine bucks a month, right?
I want J I want Jimmy to be Jimmy here, by the way. Or whatever it is to.
Yeah, and you know, like, when we got someone to upgrade to like a $29 a month plan. It was like, Oh, thank God, we $9 a month is barely like cost covering, right? Yeah. For us, it was like a loss leader in a way. And then you know, this account and sign up same day. And then like, I spoke to a US based accountant who had found our product and felt like, you know, they worked out that they could have used this all on their own, even though it was for web designers, because they read the site. And it was very web design specific.
They loved it. And they referred it to someone else. And they loved it like this other accounting firm had just like so we got all this insane feedback. And then the big aha moment. Sorry, a long way to this get to this. So I got I got reached out to by a listed company that runs a document management system for accountants. And they said they wanted to buy us out basically, we’ll want to put that offer out there. They were looking to buy a product like ours and said the industry needed it. And that was just the big nail in the coffin for us. We were just like, well, that’s the opposite of the nail in the coffin is sick. It was the thing that made his guy like yes, yeah. So what we need to focus on?
Yeah, well, so that’s an interesting point, too, because you’re dealing with probably on average, a customer that has a much bigger like spending threshold, like 100 bucks a month probably isn’t near as big of a deal to a professional accountant than 100 bucks a month for a freelance web designer who maybe it takes a while for most web designers to realize the value of their time when it comes to getting content like most of the folks in my web design club and a lot of my students who are building their businesses realize the biggest hurdle by far in the entire process that is the most costly and the most draining and time consuming is the content A collection process. So whatever you can do to expedite that is worth the investment.
Now, there you go, James, if you want to use that for your web design, you’re welcome to, but like, it takes web designers generally a while to get to that, except for those listening to the Josh Hall website show. Most web designers, though, are gonna see like 30 bucks a month for collecting documents, why I can just email the client and then get 100 strands of email threads, I’ll just go that route. So all that to say, it’s probably going to take a little while longer to get to that to where it is interesting to have like this new niche that is already there, like already on it on that level, I would imagine that it was that kind of one thing too, that was like, Okay, we’ve got a literally a higher dollar value client that I’m assuming that fastener to right?
Huge factor like, and you touched on something very, very important there. It’s the way people value their time. I think it’s very hard for freelancers to value their time, because they’re generally not charging at an hourly rate. You know, and I’ve a lot of freelancers, and small agencies will, will try to build or DIY things that take a lot of time to save a small amount of money. And I’m able to say this very easily because I was that guy for so so long, you know, I’d be like, Why am I don’t want to pay 30 bucks a month, I’m just going to like spend a week installing some open source thing and setting it all up and fixing it when it breaks. I was like, I was 100% That guy. And so, you know, I hit a breaking point in our agency where we were just too busy. And I started just signing up for anything that could save me time. And it was like a massive turning point in my business…
Was kicked off your the automating or the automation side of your passion.
Yep. That’s literally the story. I tell people when it’s like, you know, why do you like when I talk about explain why automation is so important that that is the story to tell? Because it was a big turning point. For me. There was a couple of other stories as well. But But yeah, like it’s a it’s a way people value their time with accountants is very easy. Because they charge out at like 300 bucks an hour, or whatever it is, you know, so they go if I can save half an hour a month, this tool is paid for itself, right?
Whereas half an hour a month for a freelancer might not feel like a lot, especially if they’re, you know, they’ve got a fair bit of free time, whatever. And it’s also hard to track how much content snare is saving, because no one’s really going like, oh, today I spent, you know, 20 minutes chasing up this one customer, you know, and no one’s no one’s tracking the time like that, you know?
Yeah. And another factor too, with most web designers, unless they are an agency that is doing things at scale. Most web designers aren’t going to have that many clients in a year. And that’s actually a benefit I talked about that being one of the best things about web design is you don’t need that many clients to create a six figure income. But in the case of this type of service, it might be something where they only use it once a month, or twice a month. And if it’s a really simple project, they may not even need contents there necessarily, if it’s just five images and a couple of pages, they could get by with base camp like I did for a little while.
But that’s a really interesting point that you kind of were in this market in this niche. But then this new target market emerged. And now you’re really featuring all these different services and catering to all of them. Now you talked about how you kind of revamped your marketing strategy. I want to know Jimmy, did you feel or are you feeling impostor syndrome? With getting into this? Like, I can’t imagine going to a book like a bookkeeping conference. That sounds like a nightmare to me. What like do you feel weird? Did you have to go get suits? Like what? Like, what what is it like entering into a whole new world?
Dude, I’m scared. shitless Yeah, yeah. 100% imposter syndrome is ramped up from like, like an agency world, I was starting to actually feel like I knew some things and even though I stopped running the agency, and the knowledge was kind of fading out over time. There are some things that I could tell people about that they really got a lot of value out of. Dude, imposter syndrome went from, like, 10 out of 100 to like 100. immediately, as soon as I was asked to speak to a group of accountants, like, like talking to other software products or other you know, talking to people’s to start up a conversation. It’s not too hard for me, because I’ve done it for so long now.
But you know, and but it was easy in web design, because when I had the podcasts I’d be like, come on my podcast, I’ll put you in my newsletter. I’ll put you in front of our audience. So I had value to give. I have no audience I have no podcast in accounting, you know, like I don’t have any of these things. So I feel like a value leech for one. I’m going from be out being able to provide value first to people that I want to talk to to like, like feeling like I have nothing to give and also feeling like I don’t know the industry because a lot of software products in account Uh, founded by accountants, a lot of them. But there are like, what I found is just like there are some, you’ve always got some knowledge, it’s going to be valuable to some of them. And you’ve just got to focus on that, you know, so have a guess what I’m talking about tomorrow that you think bookkeepers and accountants might not know a lot about that I know a lot about.
Probably something about web design or some sort of online marketing yourself.
I could have done that. Actually. That’s actually a really good point. I could have done that. Like, I could talk about SEO all day.
Oh, well, I was just thinking, like, despite everything you just said, James, you are maybe one of the most you may be potentially one of the most unique type of people to be at these conferences, because there’s probably not many people like you, like you have all this experience in web design SEO entrepreneurialship that a lot of accountants and bookkeepers will probably flock to you for like a guarantee. And you know, you don’t want to design their websites, but I’m sure that if content snare could assist them, you know, in the just the digital space in general, I can my gosh, I feel like you could really set yourself apart. Yeah,
Yeah, that’s a good point. I think about that. Thank you. But ya know, the answer was Zapier, so Zapier works you know, because a lot of them don’t know. So Ember, salmon web design, you know, and I
Can we address complete tangent, but while I have you have to ask you why do people call it Zapier?
Sounds like like, read it.
Yeah. It looks, I mean, like, okay, let’s say it’s tip tap. So Z, aap zap that strikes me as zap and then you put AI AR
But like any other word ends in AI, you would say, is it eight? Like, yeah, I think it changes the sound of the a like a race and what it is like a knife. Is it a ref rape? Yeah.
I just I hear people say, Zapier and every time like, oh, that’s actually exactly I did.
I said it. I said it was so long. Yeah, that’s a sword or if he has a sword.
And then I wondered if I was wrong, because I’m not generally the best counsel for pronouncing pronouncing things correctly, just like I did there. But yeah, I don’t know. I just had to ask you about that. Because
Because it should be done. Right. So you happier. That’s how you saying? That’s true. Should be the double Pat’s
That’s true. Okay. All right. You made me feel better about the people who say, let’s get the let’s set the record straight. It is up here. But that’s interesting. So you focus on that?
Yeah. So I’m just talking about like, and I just opened up one of my presentations. And I was going through it. And I’m like, all of this applies to bookkeepers as well, I’m just going to pull them out a couple of specific examples in there that might be like, you know, create a couple of apps quickly take a screenshot throw them in the presentation, I was very surprised how little I had to change it to be relevant to bookkeepers.
So and that’s like, you know, and another thing is Text Expander. Like, every time I tell people that text expansion, who aren’t using it, that blows their mind, so I could easily to give a talk on like, productivity and that so that’s how I’ve fought off the imposter syndrome, you know, focusing on what I’m good at. And I spoke to a guy yesterday, who runs a software product as well, who’s not an accountant sells to accountants, he’s a sales guy. So he teaches sales, to accountants.
That’s where focusing on your superpowers can pay off because no matter what industry you’re in. – Josh
But again, that’s where focusing on your superpowers can pay off because no matter what industry you’re in, like you stand out, I guarantee you no one else at that conference is going to be a clone copy of Jimmy Rose who knows a lot about Zapier and automation and Content Collection and the web, and entrepreneurialship i I’d be hard pressed to find somebody who you know, like, I’m sure you’ll find a lot of accountants who pretty much know the same things and do the same things and know the same people and have the same education that’s really common, but.
This is I think this is a really big important thing to remember is that when you go into a new niche, you have often a very unique selling proposition or what value proposition UVI, whatever. That can be really empowering to Bucha imposter syndrome, because it’s kind of cool. You are an impostor. But that’s good in a lot of ways. It’s really good.
Yeah, you basically bring a fresh perspective. And I think that’s, you know, speaking to a consultant in the accounting space to help us sort of get that first couple of contacts. And that’s another thing you could do when you go into a new niche is pay someone that knows the people you want to know. And sort of make those introductions we, we just found a consultant and engaged her and she introduced us to a few people as well.
But she was talking about exactly this and that there’s like a it’s kind of a unique angle to come in. Because a lot of people just try to sell stuff to accountants, but we’ve got this like angle where it’s like accountants found us like we didn’t even build this, even build this for accountants. So that’s been kind of a way to fight the imposter syndrome as well. It’s like, we’re not trying to sell to accountants, you guys found us and we’re just trying to build things that you want.
And did they find you by one of the ads you talked about or your blog?
It’s SEO. Yeah. Now honestly. So whether it’s like a use case type keyword or some kind of cons Then, like the blog is kind of we’ve only just started really creating content for accounts as but I think we rank ranking for a lot of stuff yet. It’s more like general use case stuff that we built ages ago. Yeah. And now it’s more through Yeah, word of mouth or like, you might see, interestingly, people starting to see stuff on LinkedIn. So obviously, accountants are much more prevalent on LinkedIn. So I wanted that on that.
I wanted to ask about that as well. Now that you have this new target market, like how has that changed where you hang out online? I imagine you’re not as in many web design Facebook groups or anything. So like how? Yeah, how did you did you decide LinkedIn was a great place to go? Is that how are ya? What? How does that change your online behavior now?
Yeah, so LinkedIn is definitely bigger. I’ve been, it’s really hard to get me to hang out on LinkedIn, because the platform is just terrible. I guess it’s so so bad. And so I spend a lot of my time on Twitter because accounting, Twitter’s actually a big thing. Surprisingly, tax, Twitter, and yeah, it’s interesting. So the favor to Twitter, although that said, all my social media has basically dropped off lately, because I’ve been before my, a lot of my social media time has been a eaten up by crypto went through stuff, because that’s what I’ve got my eye on a lot at the moment.
That’ll be it’ll be episode number four, when we get you back.
So yeah, I mean, it’s definitely LinkedIn but But like I said, it’s such a crap platform, that’s hard to keep me there. But like, it’s, I’ve got friends, I’ve got a few friends who actually work in the accounting industry or target accountants, and they’re, like, they get everything through LinkedIn. And I’ve what I’ve seen over the years, and so that I kind of just thought, you know, I’ll just do what they do.
That’s another thing worth mentioning, too, by the ways, I wasn’t starting from scratch and accounting, either. And that’s because I do used to do a lot of networking. And I like I’m always banging on about the power of networking, you know, like some meeting people in real life, you know, in your area. You know, and I was always doing that when we had the web design agency. And like, when I actually dove back into accounting, it was crazy how many accountants already knew like, I would go, I went to a Chartered Accountants, event, a new look for people that are already,
From years ago, I was like, This is ridiculous,
Like that helps that help with the imposter syndrome? For sure.
A little bit, because I could have those easy conversations with people. But you know, it wasn’t. Because I’ve been doing networking for years. It’s it’s not hard for me to strike out conversations at those networking events. But I just kind of wanted to focus there on like, how important networking really is. It’s just such a powerful tool, like,
You never know, you never like, gosh, I’m in the same boat. James, I think you know, I’m a big time big time proponent of networking in person, if you can, I dreaded it. When I started. And I, I was reached out to by several people and I put one off for like, almost a year, this lady was like, You should come to my group, I think you would like you’d really make a lot of money. And I was like, I don’t want to do something once a week or have to get up in the morning and go, there was the best decision I ever made.
Because it just it really started that relationship I built I built confidence to once you learn how to just meet somebody and be yourself and you don’t have to sell yourself, you just try to help. And then it’s not necessarily those people who become your clients, but it’s who they know, it’s like, you can spend hundreds and 1000s of dollars in ADS. Or you can go to a networking group, and then suddenly have an access to hundreds of people and get much more warm leads or you can do if you want but no, I agree, man, it’s cool to see how networking back in the day has kind of gone full circle for you, and is paying off in a lot of different ways. Now,
I can’t tell you how much I was hating it towards the end. I was like, Why would I go to these in person things when I can just be online and have my online business. But like yeah, it came full circle. And it’s like it’s actually been super, super, super helpful.
Yeah. That’s really cool, man. So now, I’m kind of curious, what are you? I guess I was thinking about like, marketing this stuff. What what is the? What’s the vision moving forward? For marketing? Are you kind of just throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks right now with like Facebook ads versus different social media platforms versus in person? what’s your what’s the marketing strategy look like moving forward now that you have a good pulse on accounting, accounting, and yeah,
I mean, it’s pretty much more of the same. So what’s always worked for us is partnerships and content. So that’s probably what we’re gonna stick with. You know, like,
There’s keeper, any bookkeeper podcast?
Yeah. So, again, there’s the imposter syndrome. You know, I’d haven’t felt like going on any yet. I’ve presented to bookkeepers like twice now. So I think I’m If I can buy an accountants once, you know and I think if I start with these smaller, easier ones eventually I’ll have the confidence to start going on accounting bigger accounting podcast.
I mean, I don’t mean to sound disrespectful but that just sounds like the most boring podcast like are they like this new law came out about attorney fee like, you know what I mean? What I’m curious as far as what some of those shows like, yeah. So they opposite. Are they all pumped up? Are they like super jazzed about, you know, like new tax regulations and stuff.
So I gotta tell you accounting is one of the friendliest industries have ever encountered, like people have been so open to hearing new things and like hearing what our product does more even more so than agencies and freelancers, which blows my mind, like, ever everyone I talked to there, I reached out to like an influence on Twitter, and I was on Zoom, where they’re like, two days later, and I was like, how did this happen? Why did she accept my request? Like, this is insane. And then that introduced me to other people, like so easily? And I was like, wow, like, everyone’s so nice in this industry.
I found that to say, Yeah, even with my networking group, like, come to think of it. All of the bookkeepers and accountants I’ve met have all been super nice and pretty cool people. Like I have a different view on lawyers. We’ve talked about that a little bit ago. For the most part. I do have an awesome lawyer, a family lawyer, who was a previous client, he’s awesome. But yeah, you know, there’s a certain connotation for a reason in certain industries. Yeah. Real estate is another one where you get a certain type of person often. But yeah, it’s funny. I never thought about that. But yeah, bookkeepers in particular seem to be pretty cool fed.
Obviously, I’m not going to be talking about the tax news or involved in any podcast or content that look, I’m not talking about tax news, because we need to be international as well. Right? Our content is for everybody. It’s not for Yeah. And so I actually I’m starting an accounting newsletter. And I wrote as like, you know, everything but the Tax News, you know, how to run a good business, which stuff I’ll be sharing.
Super. Yeah, your superpowers focus on what you do what exactly
Right. Yeah. So I’m replicating basically a lot. Basically, everything we did. So email, email, marketing, newsletters, content, and and partnerships are not going to start a podcast, at least because even though that’s, again, a quote, unquote, superpower, or whatever, but I just, I don’t really want to commit to any accounting podcasts.
Yeah, I wonder how many of them listen? Well, I mean, obviously, there are shows there’s podcasts for everything. But yeah, I guess so. But you already said a little bit ago. Content, SEO partnerships. Those are your those are your biggies. So by, by all means focus on those. It is interesting, though, there. I mean, there’s different industries, like one of my good buddies, Hans, who runs term again, are you familiar with him again?
Met him in person and for us?
Oh, awesome. Dude loves privacy talks. I can’t imagine he like we were just talking recently. Because at the time of recording this, I just recently interviewed him and his wife who run to him again and about all the crazy stuff that’s going on with Google Analytics, and privacy and security and all this stuff, lawsuits. And he was saying, yeah, there’s some wild stuff going on in the privacy realm right now. And I was like, I, I’m glad you’re excited about this, because I had zero interest, but I need to know what’s going on. So all that to say is sometimes you go into a niche where you think it’s probably, you know, very different than it is when you actually get into is that fair to say?
Oh, yeah. 100%? Like, like, you were just saying, like, accountants seem like boring and whatever. But I’ve found Yeah, not not, that’s not the case at all. Very cool people in accounting,
Throw in rangers and doing the books, man. Yeah, this is really cool. So we’ve already covered some great stuff here, James, I mean, about really, where your product was, what you what your background in creating content snare and what it looked like in the early days to kind of expanding the different types of clients. And you guys have done an absolutely great job. I’m definitely going to use your site as an example of how to funnel different types of niches without saying like you are just Content Collection for bookkeepers, because again, that’s what a lot of web designers do, they find one niche that they really want to roll with, they just go right there. And that can be really good if it’s a good market, but if you’re only niches like barbershops, they may, I don’t know, they’ll support you unless you can do that at scale.
So it might be good to have like a few different types of industries that you cater to so you guys have done a great job there. We talk a little bit about marketing, how you guys are like doing ads and different marketing strategies for that networking impostor syndrome. Man, we’ve recovered a lot in a short amount of time I’m excited about this like it is really cool to see you guys evolve contents there. And I remember the last time we talked, I think it was because you had done a training in my in my coaching community, my web design club about concept collection. And you had mentioned you know, you really you kind of are already at that point had started this new chapter? How are you feeling, though? Like, does it make this switching or changing your niche? or adding a new niche? Is it kind of reinvigorate the business? Like, does it feel like content snares a bit fresh, more fresh for you than just more typical?
100% Because like, I was kind of touching on it before with, I felt like I was running out of my like ability to market more in agencies like I was kind of known to a lot of the people I wanted to have relationships with. And like, I just didn’t know what to do next, as far as marketing one. And I felt that way for quite a long time. And now it’s kind of like, Oh, I’ll do this. Now do this, now do this. And interestingly, like, we’ve kind of built all the things that we want to build all the processes and everything. So now we’re gonna hire a full time marketing person. And then like, after that, I’m not sure what I’m going to do, I guess I’ll be like, going to networking events and doing like demos or something.
But yeah, so it’s definitely it’s kicked off everything again, and just kind of wanted to talk quickly about what you spoke to about how web designers are like, pick something like, you know, barber shops, or whatever, and go for that. And, like, I think a lot of people do that they pick a niche, rather than having it come to them. And I think that can often lead people astray. But unless you’re picking a niche based on good data, which is essentially, you know, and that took us months to work out before we did that, and then we evaluated several industries. And that’s what you can see on our homepage now. And I think that’s a like an easy in, you know, if you are considering niching down, you could put a couple of them on your site and see which ones people click and see which ones resonate better. Yeah, yeah, it’s kind of just wanted to highlight that because people are often scared to niche and or they just pick something randomly and dive in. And I think there is a middle ground.
Definitely. And I think a lot of that I know a lot of my students who have successfully gone a more niche route is it’s what they know. And it’s the world they came from, like, I’ve had folks who like one of my I’ve had him on the podcast before. His name was Adam, he Adam wills, He came from law enforcement. So when he started doing web design, it kind of dawned on him that I could probably serve a lot of the people I know and the law enforcement sector, and guess who has terrible websites, a lot of law enforcement, state run places.
It’s not always easy to do web design for state run places. But he was able to really carve out this niche. And he started a podcast for it. We had him on the show a couple times. Great example of like coming from that world and utilizing what you learn in web design and digital marketing to serve who you know, like serve the world that you came from. So I love that man.
Well, James, this is awesome. And I get to get rolling soon. I have one final question for you. But before we get to that, do you have a certain resource that you would like people to go to maybe especially for web designers, obviously, I’m still going to 100% Recommend content snare obviously, a lot of web designers are still using that. But is there something that you might want to send my audience to or connect with you?
Yeah, I guess if you want to jump on my newsletter, you can go to content snare.com/weekly. That’s the just the weekly newsletter where I just share like awesome content that people are putting out new feature in there quite often taught, or potentially, yeah, potentially Jimmy rose.me. That’s just my personal blog where I haven’t updated in a while but there’s a whole bunch of stuff there on like automation and how to automate your business with Zapier and Integra mat and tools like that get more productive.
Yeah, I can’t recommend your Zapier course enough for anyone who’s interested. I, I that course helped me dramatically with understanding the fundamentals of Zapier. I still just don’t love it. And I think that’s just maybe where I’m at in my business. Like I prefer to just have some folks who are like really, really keen with it to kind of do the Zapier. Automation I love like planning it out, but I found that I don’t love implementing it. So I’m kind of realizing some things about myself now two of what I like to do and what I like to not do.
All that said though, yeah, you’re we all make sure we link your Jimmy rose.me site in the show notes because you got some awesome resources there. And again, your Zapier course is something I highly recommend for anyone who’s wanting to automate anything and everything. So definitely recommend that I think I steal your video testimonial James I never sent you one did I?
Don’t think so. I don’t think so. You got enough on your plate, man.
No, no, I said I would. I said I would. I’m not gonna be able to sleep until I get you one. So I’m going to make a note right now. Hold up, hold up. We’re going to do this live. I’m not going to forget about this Zapier review for Jimmy awesome.
Nice. If people are interested too. They can also well I’ve got a Zapier tutorial link which I can send you later but if you Google Zapier tutorial, I shouldn’t be on the front page still. It looks like Zapier pushed me a long way down now but my video is still right up the top.
Oh yeah. So you got free. Yeah. So everyone can search Zapier tutorial. And then you’ll see Mr. Jimmy there who is leading the way with a little featured video snippet, another good case study of the power of YouTube, by the way, everybody, if you do a little YouTube tutorial, we were chatting before we went live. But I was expressing to Jimmy some of my not frustrations, but just some of my struggles with creating videos consistently, because they are very time consuming.
But you reminded me it’s not necessarily about frequency as just quality with those videos, because some of my videos are pulling up the same, and some of them are three, four years old. So that’s great, man. Awesome, awesome. So we’ll have some links in the show notes. Last question for you. What are actually, let me change the question, because we’ve talked about, you know, where your head’s at with it and how it reinvigorated you. But what would you encourage somebody to look out for when they’re starting their business? And they want to go niche? Eventually? Would you give them any advice on like, how to recognize when there’s a good opportunity? For one? What would what would you say to somebody who’s early on who would love to their niche?
Yeah, I wouldn’t say more about wanting, like recognizing something, it’s more about, like, actually, digging for it, like getting more inquisitive with your conversations and digging more into what people’s problems are, you know, like, if someone if you overhear someone complain about something like dig into that and learn that and learn that industry’s language, you know, and because I wouldn’t just dive into a niche, you got to kind of work out if you’re suited for it first. So actually, customer conversations, I think, is the biggest thing that people should look to get better at. And always like, you know, after projects, have a, like a wind down, call someone get the feedback, like tell him to be brutal, tell them they’re not gonna hurt your feelings.
Like that’s like my, almost my mantra, I said that often to people and like, I need you to be real with feedback, you’re not gonna hurt my feelings. We need this stuff to improve. So please tell me what you think, what did we do poorly? What did we do? Well, and these conversations, if you dig into them, that’s where you get the language of, you know, what they’re what people want, and what people need. And you can roll that into your marketing. And then you can use that to decide what what industry you’re going to go into as well. Right.
That’s beautiful, man. What a great closing thought James, that’s awesome. Jimmy, sorry. I looked at your name on Zoom saw James. That will forever be the the the issue we have with the Jimmy Hey, it’s good. It’s good. Maybe as you get more into the bookkeeping world, you’ll you’ll start wearing a suit and officially be called James, and become all just started snowboarding and you’ll just start, you know, smoking a pipe and reading and talking about taxes and stuff.
I mean, I actually went to a Super Bowl party run by lawyers the other day, and everyone was in shorts. I was so I really? We were drinking beers at 8am on a Monday morning, because that’s when the when the Super Bowl was on here.
Oh, right. Right. Wow, my view of lawyers and bookkeepers is just completely off. So I can live vicariously through you and learn about these new industries. So that’s I’m gonna stick with web designers and entrepreneurs for the foreseeable future. But I’m glad you’re liking it, James. Dude, thanks for your time, man. I really, really appreciate your insight and for taking the time with us and already excited about round four when the day comes.
I love it. Josh, thank you for having me, man. You’re always a pleasure to chat to your great host.
Thanks, man. Cheers.