185 – How to Last as an Online Entrepreneur with Amy Porterfield

Josh 0:00
Hello friends welcome into the podcast. Here we are. Here we are my friends. If you’ve been following me on Instagram or Facebook, you saw me post about this I am extra extra excited about this episode because I am bringing on a world class entrepreneur, a legend in the online marketing space. Amy Porterfield is here in this episode. And my gosh. I mean, I knew the conversation was going to be good. But I have to say I think it exceeded my expectations. Amy is just an absolute wealth of knowledge. If you followed her brand, or listened to her podcast at all the online marketing Made Easy podcast, you know how much value she has to share. And although there was a bazillion things we could have talked about, I wanted to really hone in on longevity and what it takes to last.

Josh 2:15
As an entrepreneur. I feel like so many people focus on hustle and starting. But what about when you’re a few years in or things aren’t going as well as they did when you started. We cover all that and so much more in this episode. And Amy, as you’ll find out has a lot of experience in the highs and lows, you know, you see somebody as successful as she is. And you think she probably just followed the perfect path. And there’s just nothing but amazing day after day things that happen. But she was really open and honest in this interview about the lows and the struggles she’s had in her career and how she’s pushed through them. I know it’s gonna filter down to you and help you out in so many ways.

Josh 2:52
So my gosh, I don’t want to delay any longer because this conversation was so awesome. We’re gonna get to it. There’s just a couple things I wanted to mention, like I had mentioned her podcast. If you have not subscribed yet to the online marketing Made Easy podcast with Amy Porterfield do it right now listen to this episode first, and then dive over there. But honestly, more recently, I’ve been listening to that show. And it’s like every week, hit after hit after hit of just awesome stuff in the entrepreneurial world.

Josh 3:22
So check that out, make sure you subscribe. And then we do talk a lot in this episode about one of her courses, which is called List Builder society. And I recently went through that, and even as somebody who’s been, you know, in the web design and entrepreneurial world for over a decade now, this course still made a massive impact on how I build my email list and my content strategy. If you are seriously considering building your email and you need help with your content strategy and identifying your ideal clients, I cannot recommend List Builder society enough. I am now an affiliate, I’m happy to say so you can go to my link at Josh hall.co/l b s short for List Builder society.

Josh 4:07
That course is like a one on one deep dive into so many great things about building your email list identifying the right clients for you and content. I can’t recommend it enough. I highly recommend checking that out. But for right now, check out this amazing chat with the awesome legendary Amy Porterfield. I can’t wait to hear what you think and what impacts her thoughts and her experience will will make on your business. So let’s have some fun.

Josh 4:41
Amy, welcome to the show. It is an absolute honor to have you on welcome. Thanks for taking some time.

Amy 4:48
I am so honored to be here. What a great experience. I’m so glad I got to know you even more. So thanks for having me.

Josh 4:54
Well, it’s funny. So I have a web design community a coaching community and I put out a little too He’s are there and a couple other places online that you are going to be joining the show. And the the reaction and response I got was like, it proved to me that you are legendary status as an entrepreneur and an online marketer, which is why I’m extra excited to have you on. And we were just chatting before we went live, I really would love to talk about longevity and what it takes to consistently, you know, be in this online entrepreneurial world, and not get burnt out, not fade away, like so many people do. So if that sounds good, I figured that’s what we’ll dive into today.

Amy 5:33
I love this topic. Because I feel like if you work that hard to build this business and do all the things it takes to get it off the ground, you might as well be here 15, 20 years down the road. And so but there’s some things you got to do in order to keep that staying power going. So I love this topic.

Josh 5:50
Yeah. And that’s what I kind of thought it’d be interesting to focus on is not necessarily the very start, but I know a lot of people ask you that, you know, when I’m just starting what I do, oh, I would love to focus on like, the few years into it, when you get into those low points and high points. I’m really excited about this. I would love to start off though, I always ask my guests this question. When somebody asks you the inevitable question, what do you do for you, me, Porterfield. For those who don’t know you, you know, like somebody at Target? What did that what do you say? What do you tell them?

Amy 6:19
So I tell people that I help entrepreneurs build their businesses online. That would be someone who’s like, at target that has no idea who I am, or about the world of online marketing. But when I talk about what I do to someone that might be a little bit more in the know, I will say that I help people take their knowledge know how in skill set and turn that into a profitable digital course that they can launch over and over again. But when I do that last part to someone who has no clue they look at me like I’m a little bit weird name. I have two heads. So I keep it pretty general that I help people build businesses online.

Josh 6:53
Okay. Oh, that because that could even work for like a grandma or something. Right?

Amy 6:57
Exactly. That’s my dad, who still doesn’t totally understand what I do. Yeah, exactly.

Josh 7:02
I have such a hard time saying what I do now as a course creator, as a coach as a podcaster as a YouTuber. Now, it’s such a hard question. So I’m always curious about what people say. Now, let’s, let’s I don’t want to stay in the beginning years too long. But for those who don’t know, you AMI, or maybe aren’t familiar with your story, where did your entrepreneurial journey start? Where did it all begin for you?

Amy 7:26
So it’s such a great question, because I actually never ever thought that I would be an entrepreneur, like, I’ve been in I was in corporate since I got out of high or got out of college. And so I always thought I would climb that corporate ladder, and get that corner office and be a VP somewhere. And I was in I love security. So I thought that’s gonna feel really good. I get the benefits, I get the regular paycheck, I get the accolades, like, Bring it on. I was a corporate girl for life.

Amy 7:54
And then long story short, when I was working at Tony Robbins, I was about year six, I was the director of content development. And I started to hear all the things that Tony taught, you know, I started to really let it sink in being your own boss, being an entrepreneur, having that freedom, and then started to find out different ways that people were going out on their own. And something just hit me and I thought, I want it, I want the freedom, I want to do something different. I want to teach online. And so that’s when I kind of got that entrepreneurial bug in about year seven into my Robins work, I made the big exit and started my own online business.

Josh 8:30
Gotcha. And that actually kind of leads to a question I wanted to ask you, which is, do you feel like you’ve always been an entrepreneur at heart and it came out? Or do you feel like you had to like become an entrepreneur?

Amy 8:42
I absolutely had to become an entrepreneur. So when I thought about going out on my own, because I had that itch for freedom, and I wanted to be my own boss, I wanted to call the shots. I had had a boss all my life, I tease, you know, I grew up with a really strict father. And then I got into corporate and had all these, usually male bosses. And I didn’t know what it was to like think on my own. So I started to want and desire that.

Amy 8:42
But I looked at one of my girlfriends that I worked with that Robbins and I said, you’re a writer, you could go and freelance and be a writer and do your thing. I have no skill set that would lend itself to be my own boss. I honestly believe that. And she looked at me and she’s like, What are you talking about, you could take all these skills and move it into your own business. But at the time, it felt very foreign. So anyone that’s listening that thinks like, I don’t know if I have what it takes. I am not an ant and natural entrepreneur, I kind of just taught myself how to be one. So I think anyone can teach themselves how to move into that entrepreneurial world.

Josh 9:41
I’m glad to hear that honestly. Because I think that’s where a lot of people tend to limit themselves is they’re like, I’m just not this person. I can’t communicate well, I’m not good on camera. That’s a biggie, especially nowadays. A lot of the people that I teach are web designers. Most web designers don’t get into the game to be on camera. They want they want Have you out of out of the computer? So that’s actually why I’m like extra passionate about talking about communication and be on camera and just putting yourself out there.

Josh 10:07
But it’s good to know that you came from that world because to be honest, Amy, I would think the polar opposite, knowing your brand down because like I mentioned before we went live. I was a little more recent to the Amy Porterfield brand and your stuff. I’m like a super fan. You know, I’m listening to you every day now. But I’m a little later. So I didn’t see that, that progression. Whereas a lot of people and maybe that’s kind of interesting for you. I know the same this for me. A lot of people are like, How are you so good on camera? I’m like, look at some of my videos from four years ago. Very different Josh.

Amy 10:41
Yes, I have so many of those videos. I used to do more YouTube than I do now. And I’ve got this one video. I have like super short hair. I am very kind of quiet. I’m like, Who is that girl? It’s kind of quiet, kind of timid. I’m pretty sure I was reading notes that were on my computer screen. And I remember thinking I am not cut out for this video thing. I hated video in the first few years. When Facebook Live first came out. That’s when I know I’ve been around for a while because Facebook Live wasn’t around when I came on the scene. But when it became a thing, I prayed it would be really unsuccessful and not work out. So I wouldn’t have to do Facebook live. These days. I do like five Facebook Lives a week.

Josh 11:22
But he’s gonna say no, totally see? Yeah,

Amy 11:25
I would have never believed that. So it just takes time. I mean, I’ve been in it for almost 14 years. So you gotta be patient with yourself.

Josh 11:33
Yeah, so when did when did you start? When did you start your own business? That was that

Amy 11:36
2010? Officially?

Josh 11:36
Okay.

Amy 11:36
Yeah,

Josh 11:36
okay.

Amy 11:36
Yeah. So, so how many years is that? So?

Josh 11:37
So 12 Right now officially, but sounds like

Amy 11:48
2009 is when I left Robins, but I don’t count 2009 Because it was a little bit of a shaky year. I like one foot in one foot out. So 2009 When I left, but 2010 is when I officially had my first full year So 13 years.

Josh 12:02
Is it safe to say you fumbled into it? Or did you start in this bleeds into this topic of longevity, I feel because I did not start my business and go like, I’m gonna start my web design business. And here’s my five year plan. Like a lot of web designers and web entrepreneurs. I know, I just fumbled into I don’t know if you know this, Amy. But I was a cabinet maker by day working on tour bus customizing shops, and I was a drummer in a rock band at night.

Amy 12:28
On my goodness,

Josh 12:29
I got laid off in 2009. And I started doing graphic design for my band, and I was playing a festival and somebody asked me how much I would charge to design their T shirt. And it was like a lightbulb moment for me that started this career for me into graphic design that eventually web design. But I say that to say I fumbled into this. I did not like you know, start and go for it. Was it the same for you? Or were you a little more organized and tactful when you started?

Amy 12:54
First of all, I love that you and I both started in 2009. So that’s really cool. So you know, we’re kind of OG’s. Now like we’ve been around for a while. I remember when I felt young in this industry, I do not feel young anymore for the record. But okay, so I did not know what the heck I was doing. I it’s really interesting. I always knew I wanted to create digital courses and teach what I knew to the masses, meaning I knew I didn’t love one on one work. And I knew I wanted to teach through digital courses from day one. But I had no idea how to do that on my own.

Amy 13:30
So when I left Robins and went out on my own, I needed to make money quickly. I did not save a bunch of money. So I started to take one on one clients and I did social media for small businesses. Okay, and so it was like a service based business. I had one or two clients before I left. So I had a little bit of momentum. And I started to take these clients. And soon I was two years in with about eight to 10 clients and hated the business I created. I didn’t like working one on one, I had horrible boundaries. I said yes to everything these customers of mine wanted. And I felt resentful toward them.

Amy 14:08
And I thought this is not the business I thought I would create. And where the heck is this freedom, like sitting on a beach drinking a Mai Tai typing on my laptop? Where is that? Like, that’s not happening in my world. So I got really scared that maybe I made a big mistake. And then I thought, wait a second, what if I change my business model? So two years into it, I changed my business model to do just digital courses. And I found my groove, but two very messy years 2011 I went into debt. That’s how really messy it was. And then by 2012, I finally found my grove.

Josh 14:43
So this is really common, maybe not on that level. But I have seen a lot of business owners over the years just as an observer. I essentially went from being a freelancer web designer to being a business owner. And now I consider myself an entrepreneur. But I’ve seen a lot of people have a lot of success and failure In the beginning, and then there’s always this like dip. And there’s a see whether it’s a month, whether it’s two weeks, or whether it’s like a year or longer. I always tell my students when they’re in this dip, just keep persistent stay there all the things that it sounds like you went through, because it does sound like it’s really common.

Josh 15:17
Like no matter who you are, where you are, it’s always like, it’s like a roller coaster you get you get going. And then there’s always a weird dip in there. Have you seen that? And a lot of people that you’ve worked with as well,

Amy 15:26
You know, I’m glad you brought that up now that I think about it and working with my students. Absolutely. But I never identified it like that. And I don’t know why it happens. Because you’re right, 2010, I made more than what I made in corporate 2011. I literally went backwards. And maybe it’s because in the beginning, we take on everything we say yes to anything. We are hustlers.

Amy 15:47
But that gets you to a point that you’re start making mistakes, you’re a little bit messier, you’re rushing things, and things kind of can fall apart pretty quickly. And I think you got to feel that pain, and you’re right, stick with it. So then you can figure out how to get out of it. But you also learn what you do not like like I am very clear what I do not like in terms of how to run a business. So I think you need to figure that stuff out in the in the very beginning.

Josh 16:10
Gosh, that’s very well said that sound advice for anyone I think especially early on, like if this has not happened yet, because it just know it’s going to happen. You’re not alone. But even for folks like me who’ve been in it for over a decade now. I’ve definitely learned to try to avoid that I was gonna ask this later on. But I think now’s a good time for the Amy, for you look at you. And I’m saying this for everybody who is for any successful entrepreneur who’s you know, a leader in this space? It seems like Amy and her team has everything’s just firing on all cylinders. It seems like everything’s going awesome.

Josh 16:45
Although you’re very open about the things that you go through. And my question would be, what, what are some tips that you have when you do go through those rough patches? And I think he mentioned more recently, there’s a bit of a rough patch in your business. And I actually ended the year off last year, like gangbusters, like best two months I’ve ever had November, December, January and February this year, were two of my lowest months since I started this brand. So I’m still learning that too. Like when you go through those low patches, what’s what’s some of your tips and advice for, for people to get through those low patches?

Amy 17:17
I love this question, because there’s no way to avoid those rough patches, and they’re going to happen. So you and I have been in business for a really long time. And we’re still experiencing those 2021 was my least favorite year in business. In term…

Josh 17:32
Really?

Amy 17:33
Yeah, it just 20 2019 and 2020 gangbusters like the biggest years I’ve ever had, and 2021 It’s just I lost I had moved from California to Nashville, I got into a crazy depression slash anxiety thing that I’ve talked very publicly on my own podcast, and everything just felt hard last year. So it was one of those years that I literally would love to just erase. But I also if you go back a few years, I was in my business for I don’t know, three or four years. And I decided to take on a partner. And so there was a guy that was in a mastermind with me that so incredibly smart. We got together we had this idea, why don’t you come into my business be a 50/50 partner. And we’ll do this together.

Amy 18:18
And so we did things exploded, we did amazing, amazing things together. And then it got to a point a few years in that I realized this isn’t a good fit for me anymore. I felt like I was giving away a lot of just myself, I was letting him kind of call the shots and run in. And that really is a reflection of some work I needed to do for myself. But I was ready to end the partnership. And it got messy. And without getting into a lot of the details. We weren’t sure how we’re going to separate this company. But in my mind, I’m like I birth this company. This is my baby. And I thought I was going to lose it.

Amy 18:51
And so this went over for about a year where we had to figure out how to go our separate ways. And I cried a lot days, I did not want to get out of bed because I thought I had messed up and I was going to lose the thing that was so incredibly important to me. Long story short, we were definitely able to come to after a year and agreement and went our separate ways. But that experience what I took away from that and to answer your question about you know, what do you do through the hard times, I had to find the people in my life that would support me through it.

Amy 19:19
So there was a there were a few people on my team and then of course my husband that I can find it in that I checked in with that checked in with me. You can’t do this all alone. entrepreneurship can be so incredibly lonely if you let it. So I got on the phone I told my friends or those closest to me I’m really struggling. I’m really afraid right now. I went to my mentor people that have gone before me and had success a few of them and I can find it in them and got advice. So don’t be afraid to ask for advice. Ask for help reach out to people that you know will love you through it because you should not have to go through the hard times in your business alone. So that’s tip number one.

Josh 20:00
I was gonna ask well, so was that last year? Is that right?

Amy 20:03
No, there’s a previous thing was 2018 It ended? Okay, a few years ago, okay. Yeah, thank God, my past? Oh, well,

Josh 20:12
I was just gonna say because I definitely did not didn’t if that was the case last year, I did not see that if it makes you feel any better though, Amy and 2021, that’s when I was really exposed to your stuff and made a massive impact, massive impact on me and my family. I’m a student of yours now, in your list builder society course, which I highly, highly, highly recommend for everybody, everybody listening. So, you know, hopefully that helps. Hopefully, that makes the year better

Amy 20:39
It does, it actually makes me feel really great. Because even when I was going through really hard times last year, someone like you, who is such a superstar found my stuff valuable. I mean, that is incredible. So I guess that’s such a great lesson for people listening, you can be open, you can share your challenges, you can do all that stuff. That doesn’t mean that your business, it has to come to a standstill that you still can’t add value. And every day, I think it’s not about me, it’s about those that I serve. So how can I share in a way that will resonate with them, but also still continue to move forward and do the things that I do best? And so I think we can all get through hard times, but still allow our businesses to thrive and serve people.

Josh 21:21
You know, here’s what’s funny about that, like I mentioned, if 2021 crazy numbers for me.

Amy 21:29
I’m jealous, that’s great.

Josh 21:31
For me, but beginning of 2022 not so great numbers. But here’s the dichotomy of that end of 2021, I didn’t get that many like impactful messages saying you’ve changed my life. Here’s where I’m at, I got more in the beginning of this year, in 2022. So in a way, it was more fulfilling, like the numbers weren’t as good, but I was more fulfilled day to day with what I’m doing with my students and my coaching community. So I guess I kind of cut you off. You said there was one tip there is that another tip though, that you have to listen to your students and the people you’re helping to help you get through those rough times?

Amy 22:06
Absolutely. I love that you bring that up, I have a box in my office of cards, like physical cards that I get at my Pio box, that people are just saying thank you, I appreciate it, I apply this, this is what happened. And I keep those cards close by and on the really tough days. And you can bet I did this in 2021. The tough days, I would open it up and remind myself, Amy, you’re doing good in this world, you are adding value. And each person is a human being that counts. And so yes, let your students remind you of why you’re in it. And why you do what you do. I think that’s a huge piece of it.

Amy 22:41
And the other thing I’ll share real fast is when you’re going through some hard times, let’s say conversions are down your webinars aren’t doing as well, you’re not getting as many clients as you hoped or liking your situation came off of two great months, and then two great months, not so great. And you can quickly go to, I’m not relevant anymore. I’m not as powerful as I used to be in my industry. I’ve lost it on my best years are behind me all these crazy thoughts. And you cannot believe everything you think.

Amy 23:10
It’s a motto I live by, I have to remind myself of this daily because I can do so I can go some dark places in my head. You cannot believe everything you think. And just because it’s a thought, what I’ve learned is to say okay, so yeah, I’ve got that thought. But I also can prove it otherwise. I’m always looking for reasons to prove that that’s not true. If it’s a negative thought, and then I just move on, I don’t beat myself up over those thoughts. I don’t believe them. But they’re there. And you’ve got to remind yourself, they never go away 13 years, and they’re still there.

Josh 23:42
That’s honestly so well. It sucks to hear that because I know that’s what we’re all in for. But at the same time, I love hearing that because it tells me that you are human Amy, even at your level, you go through it just like we go through. And I do think and again, you do such a good job online, I feel it being transparent and real, where that’s not the case with a lot of entrepreneurs. But you can still see somebody like yourself and feel like they’re, you know, Amy’s just so far ahead of where I am, and I’m feeling these thoughts, and it’s just me, it’s like, I feel alone in this but it’s honestly good to know that everyone goes through these feelings in these thoughts and no, yeah, the numbers might be different. But at the end of the day, the core problems and struggles seem to be the same as far as good months bad. And that’s what what you do through them.

Amy 24:25
Absolutely. And you know, you’re giving me such a compliment, even though you don’t know what to say. You’re so transparent and open. Because I haven’t always been I actually used to kind of get called out a little bit and that probably year four or five people are like you never share anything personal. And I come from corporate thinking everything needs to be buttoned up and professional and only talk about work and then I realized…

Josh 24:47
Email signature that says warmest regards. Exactly,

Amy 24:51
Exactly. That’s the world I come from. And then I realized oh, that doesn’t work on social media. No one wants to see the policy shiny part of you all the time. And so I don’t know where I learned this, but I really do subscribe to this. I typically when I want to share my challenges and my struggles, I tend to wait until it’s a scab. And I instead of sharing from an oozi wound that I’m still in.

Amy 25:16
Now once in a while I will share when the when it’s an oozi wound kind of still open, kind of still fresh, but I shared just a little and don’t go down a rabbit hole. Because I have nothing to offer except I’m struggling. What I love to do is share the scabs where I struggled, here’s what it felt like, Here’s what it looked like when I was in it. It wasn’t that long ago. But I’ve found some ways to move past it and I want to share that with you, then I feel like I can share the truth, but also share value as well. I think I’d rather hear from people scab so I can get the value what to do instead, versus always just oozy wounds where there’s like, You’ve left me raw, and I can’t do anything. So typically, like the philosophy I use with transparency.

Josh 26:00
So it’s like sharing something that you just learn from as opposed to like venting what you’re going through, which is what a lot of people do on social media. And it’s so different. It gets a little, that’s a nice way to put it. It’s also different than you saying, like, here’s a lesson I learned 10 years ago, you went through, it’s like it just happened, which I think so we’re recording this on April 19. I’m gonna get this out in a couple of weeks after we record, because my audience is so pumped to hear from you.

Josh 26:26
But I think in this latest latest episode of your podcast, you mentioned, you just recently went through a bit of a kind of a rough sort of season in your business with team members switching roles and stuff. So for me, that puts me at ease to know like even at your level, again, you’re still going through challenges. It’s not like it’s daiquiris on the beach every day. And there’s no problems, which is. And I think you’re hitting on an interesting point right now, Amy, which is, and we’ve talked about this a lot on the show recently, the more transparent and less guarded you are, the better you’ll flourish in the online world now,

Josh 27:01
Because like you mentioned, you come from corporate, I do not come from corporate. So for me, it was like the I gave him the opposite world. I came from like being so transparent, that people were like, Josh, just share what he made this month. What is wrong with him? And so but it’s it’s very different now. Like, it’s actually another question I had for you. So you got started in 2008 2009 10. What was the what was the landscape like in online entrepreneurship, then, as opposed to now? I mean, 10 years later, 12 years later, completely different. Especially as an online woman entrepreneur, I have all girls in my house, you probably see right here. I got a wife, two little girls four and two. I do have my first boy on the way coming October. So I’ve got a little man joining us. But that looks very different. In the online world back then. Right?

Amy 27:49
Oh, my goodness. Yes. That’s a great question. So in 2009, well, 2008 You’re right is when I started to explore this world. 2009 When I went out on my own kind of, there were hardly any women doing what I do. Like I could name three maybe that I remember, like really prominent up there with the boys. It was a good old boys club. And when I came on the scene, it was such a good old boys club, like the guy standing in front of Ferrari and talking about how they never work and all that good stuff. And it just felt really hokey to me, but I didn’t know any better and, and quite honestly, I learned from the guys in the beginning.

Amy 27:49
So I really can’t knock them although it seemed a little cheesy some of how they were marketing. I learned from them because there weren’t that many women doing what I’m doing. Also social media was very different back then. selfies and stories and lots of video that was really not the norm. When I first started doing webinars, no one showed their face. In fact, back then it was like teleseminars, remember teleseminars. So that was very different. So what I’ve learned along the way is transparency has become the norm back then it was absolutely not. And also people weren’t just sharing for the sake of sharing. So I really had to learn to open up because back then it was a whole different world.

Josh 29:14
Definitely the sharing aspect. I think that’s even, even from my experience. And again, I don’t consider myself or I didn’t an entrepreneur until really the past couple years because I was just a freelancer and I didn’t listen to any entrepreneurial stuff, no videos, it was all just learning web design. That was that was it. That was my thing. And then when I became a business owner, I started getting exposed to authors like Seth Godin and others on the business side of things. And then more recently, again, I feel like a bit of a baby in the entrepreneurial world, because it is where it is now.

Josh 29:49
But I have to say going back to the question that I asked you earlier, do you feel like you became an entrepreneur Are you you know, did you have an entrepreneur side do I actually feel I thought I was going to be right in alignment with You Amy as far as my feeling, but I actually think I’m opposite. I think I had an entrepreneur inside of me that is now like, more pumped and more stoked and more fired up than you can imagine. Because I am like, bui;t for online entrepreneurship.

Amy 30:15
I love to hear that. Feel great.

Josh 30:18
It feels so good. And I’m not saying that boastfully I’m saying, like, there is this world. And I think this breeds into longevity, and the idea of doing this for the long haul. And I was gonna ask you this later, let me ask you this now. Are you like, how excited are you about the landscape now of online entrepreneurship, because personally, like I just said, it’s, it is like, built for me. I was not a great student. I wasn’t a bad student, but I just I hated being in school, I hated it. I hated high school, I hated taking tests, I got a D and typing Amy, and I type all the time now. And I do more copywriting and, like coaching via typing than I ever, you know, that’s what I do.

Josh 30:58
So I am not made for the academic corporate world. Online entrepreneurialship, though, right in alignment with my personality type. So, you know, putting it to the question to you, how do you feel about the landscape now? And does it excite you that there’s so many opportunities now would, whether it’s courses, freelancing, coaching, whatever it is?

Amy 31:16
I am so excited about what I’m seeing and what’s coming down the pipeline. And when I say that, because there’s so many opportunities, you know, looking back at when I first got started versus now, you can get in a whole lot easier. You’ve got more options for business models. We were just talking the other day, my friend and I about influencers? And I’m like, can you believe those people are making tons of money doing what they’re doing? You know, 10 years ago that didn’t even exist. That’s like a wild position.

Amy 31:46
But I remember when social media manager was kind of wild and weird, and like, what do you do? So it’s evolved so very much. And I think what I’m most excited about is that so many different types of personalities can shine online, if you’re willing to put yourself out there, if you’re willing to get on video, if you’re willing to you know, lend your voice to your podcast and do that kind of thing. Your life can be dramatically different.

Amy 32:12
So I’m working on a book called Two Weeks Notice, and it’s about how to quit your job and start an online business. And the reason I’m writing that book is because there are so many people, and this is different than you and I, but so many people that don’t even know this world exists, like they don’t get how exciting this is. And I think I’m most excited because I get to call the shots, I get to be my own boss, I get to be creative in the way I want to be creative. And that will never ever happen in a corporate job.

Amy 32:40
So I think there’s so much opportunity, so much excitement, so many different things you can do. And you don’t like I was a great student, you and I are very different, but probably why we like each other because I like people that are different than me. I never thought I’d be an entrepreneur, I was a very good student, and I was very into the professional world. And then I got to come in here. And I got to shake that up, where your personality lends perfectly well to entrepreneurship. And so we’re very different, but we both are thriving. That’s what I love about this landscape.

Josh 33:09
Yeah, Amy in high school would have been like that Josh guy is kind of weird. He’s got spiky hair. He likes really?

Amy 33:14
Like he’s a bad boy.

Josh 33:16
I don’t know that was the persona I have. And I’ll take it.

Amy 33:20
Let’s just pretend

Josh 33:21
Let’s go. We’ll go with the bad boy. That’ll be my new tagline other email, say the bad boy web designer. Now, you mentioned something there about you know who you help. And honestly, I guess one thing I’m curious about what the heck did courses look like in 2010? Oh, like? Yeah, had to be you talked about the level of barrier of entry now. So much easier. And back then like, did you have to like hire people to build a custom site for doing courses? Did you have to have a team? Like, what did that look like?

Amy 33:54
So I did have to hire a videographer. In the very beginning. You know, we didn’t have like smartphones, the way we have it now. Nor was there tons of equipment known to just a newbie that you could just do it yourself. So it was more expensive back then I remember hiring this crew. And also the platforms were coded like you needed to know coding, in order to make most of the course platforms work. I know nothing about coding, I still don’t. And so I’d have to hire that out as well.

Amy 34:25
So there were a lot of people I had to hire to make a course work. And also back in the day, it was really popular to show you remember, like the array of DVDs even though you were not getting any DVDs in the mail, we would show it on our sales pages with big bright yellow buttons and very obnoxious arrows and all of that. So internet marketing was very obnoxious back in the day, but also way more difficult to get a course up and running. Now I tell my students do not you do not need to hire anyone. Keep it simple. Do it all yourself and the technology allows us to do that today.

Josh 35:00
Yeah, it really does. That’s one reason I’m extra excited is and even my audience who are all fairly savvy, there’s still a lot that you have to learn. But luckily, it’s so much easier even from when I got started in 2010. As a website designer, I was hand coding stuff. Thank God, I don’t have to do that anymore. Because that’s not what I’m best at either. But I think it sounds like even back then I guess the question I have, as far as this topic of, you know, sticking with this and not burning out, not giving up? How important was your why? Back then to get through those tough technical things?

Josh 35:35
Because this is outside of like bad numbers and rough months. This is like, what does it take to get through all the challenges that are gonna be in your face as an entrepreneur with tech stuff with team with marketing? Like, it sounds like your y was the freedom you wanted? for yourself? And for finances, whatever that looked like. But then did you have your Ico this is something you teach in your list builder society course, again, everyone, I think that’s like a one on one marketing course I feel like everyone should go into. But you talk about your ICA, ideal client avatar, customer avatar, you want to call it? Did you have that in place in? And was that how did that help you as like your why to keep going.

Amy 36:13
So in the beginning, it’s funny, you should mention wise because I have a very strong feeling about people creating their wife to start their business. And I believe it changes over time. And so I encourage my students that when you’re choosing a why in the beginning, if it’s really quote, selfish, totally fine. So you’re right. You’re a great listener, because my Y was all about freedom. I wanted to call the shots, I wanted to work when I wanted to work, where I wanted to work and how I wanted to work. It was all focused on me, I wanted a different kind of life.

Amy 36:44
When I worked at Robbins, I traveled probably 250 days out of the year. And I had just gotten married to Hobi. And I never saw him. So my why was I wanted to control my life, I wanted to create my own destiny. Now if you fast forward, let’s say 10 years from then, my y dramatically changed. It changed into there’s a woman in a cubicle right now, she does not know that there’s this whole world out there that she could call the shots. She knows she’s made for more, but she feels stuck.

Amy 37:14
And if let’s say she falls upon my podcast, or my book that’s coming out, and she’s like, wait a second, what what is this world and it gives her permission to try something new. Her whole life can change. She is my why, I think about her every day. She wasn’t even in my radar 10 or 12 years ago. So the dancer your question. Absolutely. My why of wanting freedom pulled me through for many, many, many years. Specially when I started to doubt myself and things didn’t go right. I had to come back to it over and over again. But I didn’t know who my ICA was my ideal customer avatar. No clue. I literally needed a few years to figure that out.

Josh 37:54
Well, and as you were talking, it made me think I just wonder this is just outside perspective listening to you talk about that. I wonder if you didn’t really understand your ICA back then because you weren’t far removed from that person. Like maybe it took a few years after becoming a successful entrepreneur that you’re like, now I can teach this because that’s how I felt like right now. I don’t feel like I can teach course creators that well, because I’m in it. I’m in the thick of being an online course creator, community builder podcaster.

Josh 38:24
Now I can teach web design left and right because I did that for a decade and I know all the challenges all the mistakes I made my hairline actually used to be right here. But that’s web design, receding. I know I want to help people keep their hair I think that’s what I should put on my website. Great tagline that is a great tagline we’ve come up with so I knew I was gonna get some marketing benefits. But no, you’re right. You’re wide changes. It’s interesting.

Josh 38:52
So I have two daughters. My eldest daughter Bree, I don’t know if you know this Amy if you got a chance to check out my story or anything but she has some developmental delays and we were in the NICU for two months when she was born so it was a huge challenging time in my family went to went through and she’s doing awesome she’s the sweetest she is literally the sweetest thing in the world. It’s not an opinion it is a fact that I believe oh my gosh, she’s like the sweetest and you can imagine that my little ones a firecracker but that’s another story of a C suite too. But I say that to say it’s changed my why?

Josh 39:24
Because my why now is I want to help homeschool her and that was not in the picture a few years ago before we had like my why was building finances building the business? Now like my why have shifted from of course finances are a part of it. But now I’m thinking about like the day to day what do I want our weeks to look like and our days to look like? So here actually later this year, we can start homeschooling her because we just don’t trust with the delays that she has in developmental stuff that she’ll be well taken care of in the public system. So anyway, I say that to say that’s my new why you Has your why changed at all? Or has it always since then, even when you found that out, has that stayed consistent?

Amy 40:05
I think, you know, I’ve always I still always want that freedom, like, I don’t believe anyone could ever hire me at this point. So I’ve got that running through my blood. But when I transitioned to, it’s that woman in the cubicle, that one fired me up even more. And so I love that you’ve allowed your shy to change because it becomes bigger and better as it evolves.

Amy 40:28
So I think everyone listening, just let your y be whatever it is, and get crystal clear, it’s got to feel good. It’s got to like hit you in that gut like this is it, but then be open to the fact that you will start to experience new things and really show up for other people like you are for your sweet little girl. I am for the women in my audience that evolves over time, but until you’re in it doing the thing, it’s not going to evolve. So all you got to do anyone that’s like, I don’t know, if my why is good enough, or I’m not clear, just get to work. It comes for sure.

Josh 41:00
And I should say there’s a personal aspect and the professional aspect. Personally, that’s my biggest why professionally? Of course. My Why are my students, the web designers who are st very similar for you, Amy, they’re working a full time job, and they want to have freedom and web design and this awesome online world of entrepreneurship is there for them. So that’s, you know, similarly, that’s, that’s my why for them. So I guess it bears worth having like the personal and professional why I love that there at all times, right?

Amy 41:28
Yes, absolutely.

Josh 41:30
Yeah, I love that. And something I wanted to mention this earlier, something you hit on is to keep the why like top of center front of mine. So today, my family and I are one month out as retirement I’m recording this for we’re building a new home. So I’m gonna have a new office set up here soon. First thing I’m going to do is make a wall of awesome, which is going to have like testimonials, little notes that students send me with like, there’s so many things that I’m like, Oh, that’s awesome, then I never think about it again.

Josh 42:01
And recently. I’m like, Josh, shame on you. Like keep that stuff front and center. So I’ve started I have like a folder of just awesome stuff that I just drop in there, screenshot it, drop it in there. I’m going to take the next step in my new office setup, which is going to be to like literally put it on the wall. So I don’t know, I just wanted to share that because I feel like it’s it’s one thing to know it’s there in your computer. It’s another thing to see it. Yes, that’s yes.

Amy 42:27
When you get that up, take a picture and put it on social I want to see it.

Josh 42:30
I will 100% do that. We’ve also talked a lot about work ethic in this You and I are hustlers at heart, I think like I came I came from a blue collar background. I’m good with getting my work boots on and going. I think a lot of people have an issue like getting started and getting to work. My issue is to stop working. Because I’m sure as an allowance. A lot of people leave the nine to five and then it’s like, welcome to the 24/7 Don’t get on your laptop on Friday night when you’re spending time with your family.

Josh 43:03
So I’ve had to combat that. Obviously, as a family man. Now I’ve really learned a lot about work life balance and work life integration. But hustle, what are your thoughts on hustle? I think there’s a change in the entrepreneurial landscape. Now, where a hustle is, people are like, okay, hold on, get dirty word. Yeah, it’s a dirty word. I got some thoughts on this. But what are your thoughts on hustle?

Amy 43:25
Okay, I’d love to know your thoughts, too. So I recently did a podcast episode where actually I’ve done two episodes where I’ve talked about this. And what I’ve shared is that two things. Number one, I absolutely believe you have to hustle in the first few years. I don’t know any other way around it, you got to say yes to most things to figure out what you like and what you’re good at and what you don’t like and what you don’t want to do. And also you don’t know if it’s a good opportunity or not until you get in there and try it.

Amy 43:52
And so in the first few years, that’s a little bit of like a little desperation, like I got to make it work, especially if you’ve left a nine to five job. Hustle is just part of the game. And I believe that that is just how it is. Other people could totally disagree with me. And that’s fine. However, what I did wrong, and what I’ve admitted to is I didn’t know to get out of the hustle mentality. So when I started teaching people how to create courses and grow their email list and do webinars. It came from a hustle mentality, like do what you got to do work the hours you got to work, you got to work on weekends, you do it because this means a lot to you.

Amy 44:25
And then I experienced burnout. Like I was like, I don’t even want to do this. And I know why I’ve seen so many people come and go in this industry. And I know why because they push themselves so freaking hard that it got to a point that they’re like this is not even worth it. I don’t even like this. Luckily, I never got to that place. I’ve always loved it in one way or another. But what happened is my husband’s like, I never see you. My little boy at the time. I went to a baseball game, and he was practicing it was practice. I thought he wasn’t even paying attention to me. I’m on my laptop in the bleachers. Boom, boom, boom, boom. Whoa, like typing away. Afterwards I was walking into the car and I said You did so good. And he said, How do you know you were working the whole time?

Josh 45:07
Oh,

Amy 45:08
It’s like yesterday, this is many, many years ago.

Amy 45:11
With the dagger.

Amy 45:13
It was horrible. I could have just cried in that moment, I probably went home and cried. So I’ve experienced the hustle and the burnout. And I do not think it serves you long term. So you know, we talked about how do you stay in this that many years and beyond, you have to get out of the hustle mode, I really do believe it. I believe you can make something amazing without killing yourself over it. And the more you value time away from work, I believe you show up better.

Amy 45:41
So one of the things I like to put my this into motion, we moved to a four day workweek a year ago, I was gonna ask about that. Yeah, have 20 full time employees that are across the whole us. We moved everyone to a four day work week. So we work Monday through Thursday, regular hours, eight ish hours. And we do not work Friday, Saturday, Sunday, unless we’re in a launch. And it changed everything. It changed everything in terms of how I feel about work, how I feel about my team, and my team is so grateful for the opportunity to be with our family. So I’m not a huge fan of hustle. But I do think it’s necessary in the beginning.

Josh 46:17
I agree totally back that up and saying in the beginning you you’re going to have to do it. There’s no other way around. It’s going to be a busy season. But you asked my thoughts on it. My thoughts are, it’s seasonal. Like again, I love hustling. Some of my favorite times of my creative juices are to like build a course. But I know it’s very time intensive. It’s exhausting. Even though I love it, it doesn’t mean that it’s not exhausting. And I’ve learned that there are certain seasons where and I’ll just let my wife know like, I’m creating a course I’m recording. The next couple of weeks hustle time we’re going to be working a little more than a couple of weeks after that, let’s go to the zoo on a Tuesday, let’s do this, or whatever.

Josh 46:55
So I’ve learned to like just balance it balance the hustle and but more importantly, be intentional about like scheduling that out. And the idea of a four week work day or excuse me a four day workweek. That’s very intriguing. I know a lot of people are doing that. For me personally, I’ve I’ve revamped my day to day and week to week to where Mondays are no calls in, it’s just open. I can work a lot if I want if I’m in a hustle mode, but I can also be creative I can write I’m similarly I’m gonna start writing my first book next month. So I’m super excited about that ad.

Josh 47:29
So Mondays are probably going to be writing day, Tuesdays or calls Wednesdays occasionally will be calls. Thursdays are also called I have a couple call segments. But that’s it. And then Fridays are usually half days at most. So it’s a very, you know, I I’ve given myself freedom in my day to day. But that’s the term that everyone has to remember. You have to like, set that up. You and I’m given and would you back me up me and saying that, to give people permission to set your week to what you want to do? I feel like so many people need to hear that and just do it like craft your week. That’s the beauty about doing online entrepreneurship, you can create you can control it. It’s so true.

Amy 48:11
You know, sometimes I get back into hustle mentality. And I’m, I don’t even realize it. I’m working myself to the bone. And I’ll complain to my husband Hovey and say like, Oh, I just I feel like I don’t even have a minute and he says you should talk to your boss about that one.

Josh 48:27
Go Hovi. What a great line,

Amy 48:30
Right? I am calling the shots. So if I’m complaining about my schedule, it is me I have a really good friend super prominent in her industry. And she was complaining about her calendar. And I said, based on personal experience, you control that calendar, you’re saying it’s your virtual assistant setting up meetings, you’re saying people are putting things on your calendar, you’re the boss at the end of the day. And we have to remember that.

Amy 48:52
And also absolutely agree with you set up your week the way you want to live it because you will not be in that industry in 10 years, if you hate your weeks, and you hate the amount of time you work. And I think there’s this FOMO like if I don’t say yes to everything, if I’m not working, working, working all the time, I’m gonna miss out on something. And the peers that I admire the most are those that literally have enough competence to say, I’m going to do what I want, say no to the things I don’t want to do and I will be just fine. They tend to thrive. There’s something magical about it.

Josh 49:25
That’s I just love it. You can control your day and everything you want to do. I’m actually thinking about dropping Wednesdays is called Days to adjust to Tuesdays and Thursdays.

Amy 49:32
We do two days a week, Mondays and Wednesdays no calls.

Josh 49:36
I’m in Yeah, if Amy Porterfield tells me to try that out. I’m in action. Take her on that. A follow up question with that real quick. How do you turn it off? Because even even though you’re not working on those days off, I mean, I imagine no team calls, no emails, but mentally do you give yourself permission to you know, do do content, do stuff like that, or are you like off on those three days that you’re off?

Amy 50:00
So that’s such a great question. I, a lot of the times I am totally off, so I will not come upstairs. So it just so happens that my office upstairs, I’ll stay downstairs. And I’ll have to really make plans and make sure that I have my day set up so that I’m not finding my way upstairs for a quick call or a quick content creation or selling. There’s supposed to be full non working days. Now, because I’m writing a book, I have found that there are some Fridays that I am typing away. I’m in a season I got to get the book done. I’m on a contract. But most of the time, I am not working at all.

Josh 50:39
That’s awesome. I did that’s the danger of having a laptop, which is I have a laptop right here. What’s this is running off of and I have to, I’m almost thinking about going with like a locked, big computer. So I go to the office to work. I can’t take it elsewhere. We’ll see how that goes. Right writing the book.

Amy 50:56
Isn’t it wild though? Like we we have to force ourselves not to work. And I don’t think that’s a bad thing. I think we love what we do. We’re excited about it. But we also know that all work and no play is not going to serve us well.

Josh 51:12
For me, there was a like light bulb moment that, uh, hit me and that was probably maybe two or three years ago, when again, same thing I wasn’t stressed out working. I just really liked what I was doing. I was new into courses, students were emailing me, I loved hearing from them. So I was on my email quite a bit. We were watching a hockey fans, we were walking watching the Blue Jackets game. And I had one daughter at the time Bria who was playing, and my wife was talking to me. And I was on my laptop, do an email stuff.

Josh 51:40
Half an hour later. I didn’t know what my wife just said, I didn’t pay attention to my daughter. I felt bad about that. I didn’t even see what was going on in the game. And it took me a half an hour to write this email that I could have done in like two minutes the next morning. So that was like the moment for me, I realized I I need to just stop this. Like there’s occasional times I’ll bring my laptop and do some stuff. But more often than not, I know when I can take that thing out and get stuff done. And I’ve had to control that. And like, again, kind of similarly, like I can work all the time. I need to reel that back and be intentional about it.

Amy 52:15
Intentional. I think it’s a beautiful word.

Josh 52:17
Yeah. Gosh, so much good stuff here, Amy I again, I really feel like there’s a bazillion topics I’d love to dive into. I want to be respectful of your time as we get ready to roll this up. I kind of do have one final question for you. Before we get to that, though, where would you like people to go to find out more I’ve I’ve mentioned your list builder society course I’m actually an affiliate now. So everyone can go to Josh hall.co/lbs as enlist biller society to check that out.

Josh 52:45
What’s interesting, Amy is I am not your ICA, I am not your ideal customer. I don’t think however, let me just publicly say I got so much benefit out of that course. And so I actually went through your webinar, and I did not initially purchase it, because I kind of felt like it might be a beginners style course. But even with where I’m at now, because my ICA is changing a little bit into the like business realm and not just web designer realm, it actually really helped me re position my messaging and where I’m at. So publicly, thank you for all that you put in that course is going to be revamped soon, right?

Amy 53:23
You’re gonna be I need you to be one of my testimonials because you’re gonna be a shining star, you take that seriously, you’re like, my favorite type of student. And so I love that I want to point something out. So I love that you’re talking about ideal customer avatar, and how important it is to really understand who you’re serving and who you’re talking to.

Amy 53:44
But you are a perfect example of the magic I talked about in List Builder society, where if you get clear who you’re marketing to, and you get your message around them and you resonate with them, you’re not going to serve everybody, but there will be outliers. There’ll be people out there that just something you said resonated with them your teaching style, they will find you even if they’re not your ICA, so don’t worry that you’re leaving everyone out. You’re not and Josh, you’re a perfect example. You might not be my perfect ICA, but you found me because something I did resonated with what you need. And so it’s such a beautiful thing.

Josh 54:18
Yeah, well, I know it’s funny, you mentioned that I’m on the cusp. It won’t be by the time your episode goes live, but I’m actually going to rebrand my podcast right now. It’s the Josh Hall Web Design Show. I’m about to rebrand it to the web design business podcast with Josh Hall to just move myself out of it just a little bit. Yeah, and then make it very clear web design business. So I’m not gonna be we’re not talking about how to code on this podcast, we’re talking about business and strategy and entrepreneurialship with web design is a key part of that. So I appreciate that.

Amy 54:49
I love your niche. I think it’s so beautiful that it’s web design, but also business building, and that little tweak makes all the difference. I’m excited about that. So anyway, you’re I so appreciate you talking about List Builder society, because it’s a program I’m really proud of. And I do believe that everything gets easier in your business when you grow an email list. So thank you for being an affiliate. I hope a lot of people listening want to take us up on the offer because it’s amazing. But when you ask, Where can people find me? Thank you for that question. I’m all about my podcast, online marketing made easy. If you love me Josh’s show you might like my show as well.

Josh 55:26
Let me tell you something about your podcast. Amy. So I saw you on a couple summits that I was a part of it was the Brendon Burchard influencer Summit. That was my initial like big exposure to you. I mean, I had of course heard your name and I was like, um, I like what Amy said. And then I went through the summit shoot the video summit about it Lauria is that right? Oh, yeah. Laura Yes, yes. Yeah, whatever the whatever her summit was, I feel so bad I forget what that was called. But a lot about video and lives and going live and stuff.

Josh 55:58
And as somebody who’s doing live more now this year, it’s like my big thing. This year’s live video really resonated with me. I say all that to say then I got into your podcast and let me tell you about Amy’s podcast. Definitely subscribe right now to online marketing made easy because every episode recently has been like hit after hit after hit. My gosh, the one you did with the finance guy. Anthony

Amy 56:23
Yes Anthony Oneil.

Josh 56:26
Oh my gosh, everybody after this, of course, drop what you’re doing and listen to episode 451. of Amy’s podcast about money mindset. So good. Anyway, your podcast is definitely a resource. I’m passing around

Amy 56:38
Josh that means the most me I literally want to put you in my pocket and take you around with me because you make a girl feel really loved. So

Josh 56:44
I was gonna say you know, we’re in Columbus, Ohio. I have two Golden Retrievers two to top it all off. You bring Scout over they want to know now they’re cute blondes. I’ve got Daisy, Lulu and Lily bell I want to know if Scouts gonna be on his best behavior for a playdate.

Amy 56:58
He might not be might be a little sassy. But I think we need to get them together.

Josh 57:03
Okay, deal deal? Well, I want to be respectful of your time. Amy, my final question for you is for the people who are still in that season. Numbers aren’t great. They’re still in that rough patch. They’re fired up. If you could just sum up like one piece of advice. If you were sitting down with somebody a coffee and you were like just do this or you know, this would be my advice, what would you say to them?

Amy 57:24
If numbers aren’t really great things aren’t really coming together. But you’re not going to give up? Of course, the number one thing I would do is say look at your business. And can you make it simpler? I’m all about a simple business. I love having just a few offers just a few ways that I make the core of my revenue. And everything else is great, but not a necessity. So look at your business. Can you simplify it? Can you double down on that one thing that’s working really well and stop spinning your wheels on five other things that are not check your ego we say yes to a lot of things that will make us look good, but don’t really bring in the revenue. So first look at what can make me revenue, where can I double down? What can I do less of, but do it really well. And get rid of the stuff that’s weighing you down? To me. That’s a way to kind of open up some possibilities.

Josh 58:14
Who well said that’s why she’s a legend, everybody. Amy Porterfield. Thank you so much for your time. I can’t believe this was an hour.

Amy 58:22
I can’t either like oh my goodness when good conversation happened.

Josh 58:27
I hope this isn’t the last time this has been super fun. Thank you so much for your time, Amy. I’m excited to talk soon.

Amy 58:32
Thanks so much.