​So recently, a friend of mine from high school (who’s considering a career change) reached out to ask if web design is a good industry to get into.

Naturally, my first answer to this question is “HELL YEAH” but I wanted to give him a better answer to help than just that.

So, he sent over 15 amazing questions about the industry of web design, how to get into it, what it entails, if it’s high in demand and so much more.

The questions were so good that instead of just sending him some answers and giving my advice, I figured I’d make it a podcast for ANYONE who’s dipping their toes into the wild, amazing but often challenging world of web design.


In this episode:

00:00 – Introduction
01:58 – Don’t have to be savvy
03:44 – Three web design options
07:21 – 1) Education needed
11:06 – 2) Average pay
14:59 – 3) Being tech savvy
20:22 – 4) Favorite part
23:33 – 5) Least favorite
26:51 – 6) Who to work for
28:07 – 7) Would you recommend
28:26 – 8) Job security
29:36 – 9) Daily time management
30:35 – 10) Industry growth
32:43 – 11) Remote jobs
33:30 – 12) Rewarding work
35:02 – 13) Most challenging
36:04 – 14) Typical workday
40:18 – 15) Can Josh still play tennis
42:07 – Final thoughts

10 Step Action Plan to Learn How to Build Websites!

Featured links mentioned:

Episode #190 Full Transcription

Josh 0:14
Hello, friends, welcome into Episode 190. I’m super excited about this episode because it’s something quite different. Recently, I got a an interesting message from an old friend of mine from high school, somebody who I was actually on the tennis team with. And he reached out and asked about some career advice. And more specifically, he sent over some questions about web design. And he actually sent me a decent list of really good questions, like a lot of questions that I get one off randomly. And he kind of listed them all out and this nice bullet list of 15 questions. And instead of just sharing my thoughts with him, I thought what I might do is share my thoughts with you and for anyone who’s interested in getting into web design, because I thought the questions were very tactile and very thoughtful. And again, I get these all the time and different points in phrase different ways. But I just want to essentially take this episode in some time with you to share some honest feedback and some thoughts on these questions.

Josh 1:22
So hats off to let’s keep his name his real name hidden. So we’ll just call him Robert. We’ll call my friend Robert, who was asking about a potential career change. And it was web web design is for him. So he reached out and said, I have been looking into web several career paths. And I’ve always felt creative, but not sure how computer savvy I am. From what I’ve been researching web design seems like a pretty good paying job. You get to be creative, but I really don’t know much about what goes on. So I love that for a lot of reasons.

Josh 1:58
First off, because, Robert, I’ll tell you, and I’ll tell everyone listening. As far as being computer savvy, Neither was I. In fact, I’ve been sharing this recently on the podcast occasionally. But I got a D in my typing class in high school. And when I was in an art class, when they let us play with Photoshop, I was straight up deer in the headlights kind of situation like I am not naturally a computer savvy guy. And in fact, I use Mac, mainly because I don’t want to mess with the computer. And that is not my strong suit. If you start asking me about memory and storage, and Giga hertz and units and mega pixel bytes, and all these different, you know all the different lingo of computers, I will give you a very confused look. Because that is not my thing.

Josh 2:54
The reason I personally use Mac is because I want it to run awesome, I want it to run quick, I want to make sure it can handle graphics and video and all the other things I do and I don’t want to customize it, I don’t want to worry about it, I just want to turn it on and go.

Josh 3:07
So I say all that to say the good news right up front is you do not have to be super computer savvy, you do need to be able to work a computer like if you’re having trouble figuring out how to turn a computer on. And I’m not saying Robert is or anybody else. But if he’s having trouble turning a computer on, maybe we got some work to do before we get there. But in most cases, if you can get around a computer, and you can figure out webs, you know, from a user perspective, figure out websites. And as long as you’re so like basically savvy, you can definitely get into web design, especially if you can do a little bit of social media, you’re gonna get used to the UX, the user experience and everything else.

Josh 3:44
So that’s the first thing I want to say before we dive into these 15 questions which are super tactful, and I just another a great, so I’m excited to give you my thoughts on these. Now there are there’s something really, really important that we need to hit on before we dive into these questions. And that is, there is a big difference between being kind of what I call the Big Three. As a web designer, there’s really kind of three categories you’re going to be in, you’re either going to be number one, a web design employee, and you’re gonna work for an agency. This is going to be you know, your full time job. And I have some friends who are full time web designers at agencies and a lot of them really like it.

Josh 4:24
Now the next step from that, and one is not better than the other by the way. Like if you just want to be a web designer and work for somebody, there are so many opportunities in this world for that. Now the next step from that is number two, a web design freelancer. And this is where you’re often you might work for an agency like part time or for a certain amount of hours, but you’re also going to be freelancing on the side and have your own clients as a contractor or as a freelancer in a lot of cases. For those of you who are brand new into web designer, you’re listening to this and just wondering, you know What What is this world is it for me, there is such a thing called white labeling, which is where agencies look for web design freelancers who are available and can work as many hours as they want to build sites for them and their clients, but they are doing the marketing.

Josh 5:14
So the difference between being a freelancer and next up, we’ll talk about you know, owning your own web design business is as a freelancer, you can work for other businesses like other web design businesses, and a lot of my students are doing this, particularly if they’re just getting clients online, or if they’re brand new. And they don’t really feel comfortable with sales. But they’re an awesome web designer and a good designer, then you can partner with agencies and other freelancers who have growing businesses, and you can actually do the fulfillment. And I did this for a lot of period of my time as a freelancer. And it was really beneficial. Because you can learn from other agencies, you can learn the scope of projects, you can get a feel for other processes, it’s a great way to go.

Josh 5:54
And then number three, there is the web design business owner. And this is what I became. And when I started scaling my web design business, I eventually focused on just the sales and the onboarding, and the client management stuff. And I still did design and strategy. But I handed off most of the actual development of sites, to my team of subcontractors, and I never had a huge agency. But I eventually kind of worked my way up through the ranks that I just shared with you.

Josh 6:22
And again, one is not better than other. I think there’s also a time in place like I really enjoyed being a freelancer for most of my web design career. And then eventually, I got to the place where particularly when I started this endeavor, a Josh hall.co, I started scaling, because I wanted more free time to build this brand and teach. So that’s when I became a business owner. So there is a big difference between those three and employee, a freelancer and a business owner.

Josh 6:49
So as I start to answer these questions, what I’ll try to do is kind of hang around in the middle, I’m going to answer these with my experience. And most of what I learned as a web design freelancer for gosh, I mean, I was in web design for over a decade, and most of that time was spent as a freelancer and a couple years as a business owner. So that’s kind of where I’m gonna hang as far as my advice and my experience lies. So we’re gonna start off with question number one, again, 15. Awesome. Questions from the gentleman we’ll call Robert.

1) What Education is Needed?

Josh 7:21
Number one. To become a web designer, what type of education is needed? Awesome question. I just talked about this very recently on the Podcast, episode 184. Talked about college. And if you need college, to be a web designer, the good news is you do not in short, and I have a lot of thoughts on that. But that’s why I did that whole episode 184, if you want to revisit that, you do not need to get a higher ed $100,000 Plus education to be a web designer. Now, is college bad in any way? Or is it useless? Absolutely not. There are plenty of programs out there where you could go through it. And you could definitely get a web design job with a degree. So I’m not saying that, you know, that’s not absolutely something you shouldn’t do.

Josh 8:09
However, just to recap briefly what I said in that episode, college will slow things down for you, it’s going to take way longer to get through something. Whereas the best thing you can do, probably no shocker here and you know what’s coming, because I’m an online course grader. And that is to take online courses from people who are in it. That is my best advice. So what type of education do you want, you definitely don’t want to just go to Mr. Google, because Google is awesome. And you can find a lot out on Google. But the trade off is going to be your time and the information you get is going to be scattered at best. And there’s going to be no clear roadmap from start to finish. When it comes to learning, design, learning WordPress, if that’s the route you choose to take, learning, copywriting, learning, conversion, learning, SEO, all the things that need to be in place with web design. If you just rely on Google, it is going to take a very, very long time. And again, you’re gonna have a very scattered approach to being a web designer. So I recommend courses.

Josh 9:12
Robert, thank you for making this question number one, because this is exactly why I have my web design courses. It’s really the start to finish path for you and others who want to get into web design. So you can learn the web design side of things like the tech stuff, and then we can move into the business side of things, once you feel good about actually building websites and doing really good job. So I recommend online courses. Again, I don’t recommend higher education, but it’s not going to be all for loss all for naught. If you do go into higher ed.

Josh 9:43
And then one of the best things you can do is to try to get some sort of mentorship opportunity, or just learn from others who are in the business and quite frankly, you can get in web design very easily by just watching tutorials on YouTube. It’s why I have my YouTube channel at gmail.co/youtube. There’s tons have tutorials there, I’ve had a lot of colleagues who have awesome tutorials, you can just search WordPress deep. And actually, I shouldn’t say too, if you are going to want to learn the tech side of web design, I do have a free resource for you can go to Josh hall.co/learn. And that is a 10 step action plan you can get access to that will basically write all of the coding languages, I recommend, which luckily, you don’t need to know much code event any nowadays to get going. But it kind of lists out the main tools that I use and recommend if you want to go to Josh hall.co/learn. And it’s a free guide that you can get access to.

Josh 10:35
So that’s in short, what I recommend on the education front is not higher ed online courses, though, from people who are in it, or people who have just like myself, got done with a 10 year plus experience and journey of being a web designer, and now business owner who are teaching it and who are very well connected with people who are doing it right now and with what’s going on. So that’s what I recommend. And there’s so many online course, options out there, which is awesome. And again, my courses are there for you, for those of you in this situation exactly in the situation.

2) What is the Average Pay?

Josh 11:06
Now, number two, what is the average pay? Great question. So if you Google Online and just look at the different pays of web designers, this is going to depend on where you’re at in the world for sure. I just did a Google search on US base salaries for web designers. And this is again, keep in mind, this is probably well, for sure. These are the numbers reported from like employees. So as a freelancer, the cool, this is the big difference between an employee and a freelancer by the way, an employee is going to get a set salary. This is why I don’t want to ever have a job because I never want to be capped with my income.

Josh 11:48
Whereas a web design freelancer, you have no roof to your income. Now the trade off is you don’t have quote unquote, security, as they say in the corporate world. However, if an employee makes $30,000, at a web design salary job, I can teach you how to make 30k in a couple months, if you really want to put your nose down and get to work. So I consider that security actually find much more security and having no cap on income, rather than having a cap. And as hard as you work, you only get 30k kind of thing. So that’s the big difference that you need to keep in mind when it comes to being an employee and being a freelancer. But the average pay for us web designers, as of right now, at the time of releasing this episode in springtime 2022 is anywhere between the low end at about 25 or $30,000, all the way up to $100,000 and a little more.

Josh 12:50
Now, web design employees are generally not going to make more than six figures, more than $100,000 if you are just a front end web designer. Now, if you are a web developer, and you’re doing some like decent code and things like that, then a lot of those jobs get into the 121 3150 range. And in the higher if you’re doing like advanced coding, I am not a coder. I love CSS, which is the styling of websites. But that’s pretty much all the code I know. So that’s where the difference is coders tend to make a lot more hourly as an employee. But that’s a different skill set. And it’s very different than being just a web designer, who and particularly as a web design freelancer, who’s going to be dealing with clients and design and copy and SEO. Whereas sometimes developers, they just they just do code they code all day.

Josh 13:42
Not my personal idea of a great work day. Personally, I just don’t love that. But some people do. And that’s awesome. So that’s the difference between those two? And to answer the question, what is the average pay, being that 25 to 30 on the low end is generally where most of those jobs start. And then 100,000 Plus, the average looks right now to be around $60,000 per year. Again, that is average US base salary, some lower some higher, and that is based here in the US. But again, starting out 60k On average is pretty good, which shows you a lot about the industry, which we’re going to talk about here too. But as an employee, those are averages.

Josh 14:23
Now what I do know like I have one of my best friends additionally from high school is a full time employee as a web designer for an agency. And he does a lot of development and design. He’s incredibly skilled at both, but he does freelance on the side. So just because you want to do freelance or just because you want to have a little bit of security as a web design employee doesn’t mean you can’t do both. It’s just going to be kind of a side hustle. Essentially, freelancing would be a side hustle. If you are an employee working for an agency or different company, but 30 to 100 is average and then or that’s generally the main scope right now and then 60k is average.

3) Do You Have to be Tech Savvy?

Josh 15:00
Number three here. I used to love editing videos and pictures, and things growing up for fun, says Robert. But I would not consider myself a super tech savvy person currently wasn’t sure if you think this is a job where you can learn those skills, or do you feel like this says a career path you should be super into technology already for? So I think what I’ve mentioned so far about my experience with not being a computer person and some of the stuff I just covered, as far as like, you know, what you need to know. And that’s why I have my my guide at Josh hall.co/learn.

Josh 15:36
Hopefully, that gave you a kind of a foundation for this because the good news is that you do not need to be a super tech savvy person to get into web design, especially nowadays. It’s very different than when I even started back in 2010. So I started in 2010. And my first exposure to web design was an old program called Dreamweaver, if I have any old school folks here, can I get a holla for Dreamweaver. And back then there were no like visual page builders, which is why I recommend WordPress, and then the Divi Theme by Elegant Themes, because WordPress is kind of the engine of it. And then Divi is the Page Builder. That gives you a nice visual way to build websites, for those of you who are brand new to this industry.

Josh 16:19
But I say that to say Dreamweaver was code base, so like you can see the visual side but you had to know HTML and CSS to make some sort of website. So luckily, the barrier of entry now is so much easier, so so so much easier, because you can literally build websites. And there’s a lot of different tools out there. But I’ll just hang on Debian WordPress, because that’s what I use. You can you can build a website with WordPress and Divi and not touch a line of code, which is really empowering.

Josh 16:48
Now I do recommend learning at least the basics of CSS, which is again style the styling of a website, just because it’s so handy. I cannot imagine building websites without doing a little bit of CSS, just to customize things. But you don’t have to and you can always do that as like phase two. So this is one reason for example, I have my Divi beginners course which is no code, you can learn how to build a WordPress Divi website and feel completely empowered to build a website without touching any code. And then I have my Divi CSS course to teach you a little CSS. So it’s very intentional with how I’ve set up my courses and why I’ve set them up like that.

Josh 17:27
All to say, You do not need to be super tech savvy. And the good really good news is so many different backgrounds will translate into web design, particularly if you’re going to be freelancer. Because one reason I love web design, and this is kind of a different answer for this question. I would almost like to had like a three B to this question, which would be like what type of skills do you need to be a web designer? And the answer is, well, first off, you got to be you got to learn quick and be adaptable. Like do not worry about memorizing anything, get out of the corporate and academia mindset where you need to know what to know, for a test that is not the real world, especially in web design.

Josh 18:11
So you gotta learn quick, and you got to be able to just dive into something. And there’s a there’s a skill that I’ve learned as a web designer over the years, and I like to call it figure out if this, if you can just figure something out, you will be ahead as a web designer. So those are the most important things. And as a follow up, the really cool thing I like about web design is it’s not just designing a website, there are so many different aspects to web design, like copywriting light, which is like the words on the screen, like do they engage? Do they sell, there’s SEO, there’s design itself, there’s conversion based design, which we talk a lot about on the show, and on my YouTube channel.

Josh 18:51
There’s all these different aspects to website design, then there’s also there is development and coding. And there’s all these different things which can sound overwhelming. But what I like about that is that for one, it never gets old, it keeps you on your toes, and you can choose what you are good at and what you want to do. So if you hate SEO, and you’re just like, this is just not my thing that drains me, you can partner with somebody to do the SEO for all your sites, and then they can partner with you if you’re really good at design, and you’re really good at conversion.

Josh 19:20
So that’s one reason I love web design. And that’s also why I think it’s good to be well rounded on most of the topics, which basically my suite of courses cover, it will they will all make you a well rounded web designer. They all cover the most important things you need to know but then you can decide what you really want to go ham on and dive into. So again, if you really like copywriting and you like writing things and you find yourself liking social media and marketing and that’s what I would recommend you focus on. So from just doing web design, there’s so many aspects that you can dive into and you do not need to be an expert for and you don’t need to be super savvy for as well.

Josh 19:59
So that’s really good news. So a lot I could keep on going. But I’m going to stop it there for question number three. Because for Robert, who liked editing videos and pictures, listen, if you can do that type of work, you can do web design. And a lot of those things will transfer into graphic design as well, when you’re playing around with Photoshop, or Canva, or whatever it is to make graphics for websites, what I highly recommend as well.

4) What is Your Favorite Part?

Josh 20:22
Now, number four, who I love this question, what is your favorite part about the career path? So what is my favorite part about web design? i There’s so many things I love about web design. And I’m gonna hang again, on being a freelancer to where I’m doing the websites, doing all the things, but I’m also working with clients. And this will lead to the next question, which is the least favorite part. But my favorite part of all this is, first of all, Freedom. Freedom, for me is more important than anything, I will take freedom over a really good salary any day. And like I mentioned earlier, there is no cap, there is no cap to your income as a web design freelancer.

Josh 21:05
However smart and however much you want to work or however hard you want to work, that’s a better way to phrase it, I don’t, I don’t want you working 90 hours a week, there’s no reason to do that. You can do things yourself, work 30 to 40 hours and do an awesome job and then take plenty of time off. And you can make a ton of money, especially as you get better and raise your rates. So no cap the freedom you have. And then the time as well. Just having the time especially as a family man, I am so blessed. I actually posted recently about this on my Instagram, which by the way, if you have not followed me on Instagram, hit me up over there, you can go to Josh hall.co/instagram Give me a follow, I’d love to chat with you shoot me a DM and I’ll get back with you. I’m trying to grow that now that I just recently launched that and I’m really enjoying my time on Instagram.

Josh 21:49
Anyway, I just shared a memory from four years ago, when I was in the NICU with my daughter who was in the NICU for 56 days when she was born. And every spring I’m reminded of how amazing web design is because I was able to be with my daughter every day in the NICU. And I was able to work remotely from the hospital or across the street was a Panera Bread, to where I did a lot of work over there. And I only worked a few hours a day at most, on average, I would just get what work I needed to get done. And I was able to hang out with my daughter and be there during that really stressful time in our family.

Josh 22:22
And I could never have done that with a corporate job or a different situation. And it would have killed me to not be with my daughter every day and to leave my wife to handle all the doctors and everything that was going on. So that is a biggie. And then there’s so many things I love about it. But additionally, the last couple things I love about web design is you can be creative, it’s not a boring job, again, it keeps you on your toes, and there’s nothing better is challenging as it can be to see a white screen, and then be like I got nothing, there’s nothing better when your creative juices are flowing. And you create something.

Josh 22:56
A lot of people don’t work in a job where they can create. And I know not every one is a creator. But for me personally, and I think anyone listening to this, you’re probably you probably get a lot of satisfaction with creating something. And that’s what you can do at web design. And then once it’s live, then the really, really cool thing comes into play. And that’s when you get to see the the results it gets for your clients, which we’ll talk about in a little bit. But it is very fulfilling work as well. So those are the main things I love about web design. Apart from many, there’s a lot of different things there. But we’ll get to some others that I think will kind of fit into this bucket as well.

5) What is Your Least Favorite Part?

Josh 23:33
Now, number five, here we go. Here’s the big question. your least favorite part about the career of web design, I will say this, there’s kind of two things that can be the least favorite part. The first part is technical. And the second part is just the I guess the business side of things, particularly as a freelancer, this may not be as much as of a case of you are going to be a web designer for an agency, because you’re not going to be likely working with clients as much. And you’re not gonna have to take the stresses on of administration and the business growth, but you will definitely get the tech side of things.

Josh 24:10
So the first side of things the tech side of things is it can be frustrating. It will be frustrating heads up. It’s not can it will, you will have seasons of heavy frustration and web design. Speaking of the day, I’m recording this what a timely answer. I don’t even think about this. But today, I am having some tech issues with my site with some profiles that seem to be just randomly disappearing some user profiles and I don’t know why. I’m trying to figure that out. I’ve got Christian, my lead dev who’s looking into it for me right now we’re kind of working this out together.

Josh 24:44
Luckily, I am fortunate to where I have very little tech issues on my site and that’s mainly because I’ve chosen WordPress Divi and a few other really good tools that are trusted, that I use all the time and this is something I’ve talked about and this is something I talk about in my free guide for you at Josh hall.co/learn, which is where you don’t want to do too many tools, like you want to limit the amount of tools that you use just for your sanity. But frustrations and tech issues are going to happen. So you have to get used to that, it will be frustrating, you cannot let it take you by surprise.

Josh 25:20
Like right now I’m able to record this podcast episode, and I’m not freaking out, because I just know this stuff happens. I’m used to it. I’ve been doing it for almost 13 years now. So tech issues are going to happen, the tech side of things. And I think because it’s an industry that is evolving, so fast, and so quick, you’re gonna have to learn a lot of new things, which again, can seem daunting, but I love that because it means that anyone can get in anytime you’ve never missed the boat. So it can be very frustrating from the tech side of things.

Josh 25:48
And then on the business side of things, it’s all the things that go along with business, it is the administrative parts of things, it’s taxes, it’s getting clients, its sales, which in its content collection, like a lot of times somebody thinks about, you know, being a web designer, and then if they’re going to start their own business, it’s like well hold up, you’re only doing web design part of the time, you’re actually doing mostly, you know, business building, and admin and all the other stuff that comes with it.

Josh 26:13
So particularly Content Collection, that’s one of the biggest hang ups for web designers, which we’ve talked a lot about on this podcast on how to alleviate that, or at least how to help it. And those are the things that can really bog you down as well. So it’s the tech side of things that are frustrating. And then just the other stuff, business and admin taxes, clients, all the all that kind of thing. And you mirror you’re working with people to a client is not a thing, it is a person. So how you work with people is going to translate how you get clients and how you work with them. So that’s my least favorite part. But there it does not weigh the cons do not outweigh the pros as far as what design.

6) Do Most Designers Work for Company’s or Contracted?

Josh 26:51
Now number six, let me cut through some of these I know we’re already getting close to half an hour here. Number six here. Do most web designers work for companies? Or are they contracted? So this kind of goes back to my three distinctions, and particularly the first two where you can be an employee, a web designer working for a company or you can be a freelancer and work for a lot of different companies? I find that most people are in freelance, especially my audience, because most everyone listening, and most every one of my courses are freelancers, building their own web design businesses, getting clients and doing websites.

Josh 27:25
So most are in freelance, I know. But of course, there’s a ton of people who are employees, and get jobs for web design agencies. So you can go both routes for sure. Most people tend to be a web designer employee, then they get into freelance because you want more freedom, you want more time and you want most importantly, I think, and a an uncapped earning potential, which I love. So yeah, it really depends. It just depends on whether you want security at the start. But again, that’s air quotes security, because you could always get laid off. And a lot of agencies have high turnover, and they don’t always last a long time. So I definitely recommend morphing into freelance as soon as you can. And this goes for Robert here and anyone else.

7) Would You Recommend This Career

Josh 28:07
Number seven, would you recommend someone go into this career? I’ve got one answer that I wrote down for this. It’s two words, and that is hell Yes, and I think for all the reasons we’re talking about that probably explains why I say those two words. Hell yes. I recommend getting into web design.

8) Is There Job Security?

Josh 28:26
That leads us to number eight. In general, is there a good job security? A great question. Yes, apps have frickin lewdly. There is so much job security in web design. And in fact, I was just looking, we may have already talked about it as far as the amount of jobs that are going to be. Let’s see here. Okay, so yeah, we’re actually going to get to this in a couple of questions. But there’s so much job security and web design, because there’s so much opportunity, especially in the wake of COVID, where all businesses now if they’re not already online, or coming online, there’s so much need, especially if you learn like timeless skills, like just being adaptable. And again, that figured out of this and then especially if you’re getting in as a freelancer to like sales and communication and marketing and you know, some SEO, you know, some design and you can learn quick, there is endless opportunities out there. And again, you can dive into what you like and what you’re good at. So gosh, yes, there’s so much job security now and in the future. This is going to come up in the next question here, but I’ll stop it right there for number eight.

9) How is Your Time Spent During the Day?

Josh 29:36
Now, number nine. Robert wants to know in general, how is most of your time spent during the day like managing websites, designing sites talking with customers? So as a freelancer, you’re going to be designing sites, generally less than 50% of your day and of your time because yes, you have to remember when you’re a freelancer not only are you a website designer, but you are a business owner, whether you like whether you like it or not, or whether you realize it or not, you are a business owner. So you’re going to have to spend a lot of time actually building the business, talking with customers, etc. There’s a question later on here about having a bullet list of like, what a day would look like. And I think that’s gonna help answer this question. But yeah, most of your time, about 5050, I found as a freelancer is going to be spent actually designing sites and then actually running the business, etc. Especially as a solopreneur, as a freelancer.

10) Do You Think the Industry Growing?

Josh 30:35
Now, number 10. Do you think the industry is growing? This goes back to the question I was just talking about? I don’t think it’s growing. I know it’s growing, it is 100% growing like gangbusters right now, there’s so much need for web design. Again, all the things we just talked about from development, from design, SEO, to copywriting, whatever marketing sales, so many things. In fact, I did a little bit of research on the Bureau of Labor and Statistics, I think this is us base. But it says employment of web developers and digital designers is projected to grow 13%, from 2020 to 2030, faster than the average for all occupations.

Josh 31:21
In short, that’s a very technical, boring way to say web design is like the fastest growing industry and the need is greater than ever. And this was based off of the beginning of 2020. I think it’s even more now. And then it says about, oh, nearly 18,000 openings for web designers and digital developers are projected each year on average over the decade. But I consider that very low that may be looking at just certain actual, like job openings for agencies. But again, if we’re talking freelance that’s not even factored in here, how many? How many businesses are in your local area?

Josh 31:53
So I live in Grove City right outside of Columbus, Ohio. How many businesses are in Grove City, I don’t even know hundreds and hundreds and hundreds? How many businesses are in Columbus, Ohio, hundreds of 1000s, maybe millions, probably it’s got to be millions, there is so much opportunity. And if you are a freelancer, it is all yours. You can craft your services do what you want to do. And the opportunities are endless. And yes, the industry is growing so fast, there’s going to be such a need for digital people. I mean, how many businesses just want to have a webmaster, whether it’s their trusted web guy or the web gal, they want to have somebody they can trust or a small team they can trust. And that can be you. You just need to do it and offer it and make awesome money and have uncapped, earning potential and have some fun and enjoy yourself. So absolutely. The industry is growing like crazy. All right, let’s last let’s wrap up these last few questions.

11) Do You Believe There are a lot of Remote Jobs?

Josh 32:43
I’ve read it, there are a lot of remote jobs. Number 11. Do you believe that is true? Again, I don’t believe it’s true. I know it’s true. It doesn’t matter what I believe it is a 100% True. All web design is pretty much remote. Now there are some where you’ll go into an office if you work for an agency. But even those are our hybrid models now or a lot online due to the lake of COVID as well. So yeah, that’s the that’s the real beauty is like, you don’t have to go anywhere. You only have to put jeans I’m in shorts right now. And a jackets t shirt and I just came in from going for lunch with my family. Like we went out went to Chick fil A came back, I’m recording this podcast, everything’s remote, and you can work when and where you want as long as you get your work done. That’s the really freeing part about this, which is awesome.

12) What is the Most Rewarding Part?

Josh 33:30
Number two, or excuse me, number 12. The most rewarding part of the job as we wrap this up. For me personally, this goes back to what I like about the career I think the most rewarding part is to to parts. personally seeing a project done, like after all the work after all the planning, after all the design after all the headaches and the back and forth and everything. When you see a project done. It’s like, Ah, it’s done. There it is this thing that was a blank screen and idea from my client from myself is out there now. It’s amazing. That’s so cool. So many people, isn’t it? Isn’t it terrible that like maybe you are in a job right now where you don’t really see a project completed, you just do your thing. And there’s really no completion.

Josh 34:13
For web design, you get to see it, you get to see it done. And that is awesome. And then the follow up to that is personally, I think this is really important too, is because it doesn’t stop there. It’s the results you get for your clients. And if you see your clients business grow, there is nothing more gratifying than that. Because then even just a little bit, you are literally helping somebody provide for their family and provide jobs and help people that is amazing. So there’s the selfish aspect, seeing a project done. And then there is the the impactful aspect of this, knowing that your work is out there helping people and making a big impact and if your clients are helping their customers, it’s just this amazing spiral effect of awesomeness. So it’s so rewarding in so many ways. That’s too You have many, but we’ll stop right there.

13) What’s the Most Challenging Aspect?

Josh 35:02
Number 13. What’s the most challenging aspect? So we talked a lot, a little bit about this a little while ago between tech and the other side of stuff. But yeah, I think, personally, as a web designer, specially web design freelancer, the most challenging thing is you get in to be a web designer, and then you find out again, heads up, shocker. You gotta sell, you got to work with clients, you got to learn to communicate. And then again, there’s the tech side of things that’s ever evolving. So we kind of already talked about that. But I think those are the two most challenging things.

Josh 35:32
I mean, there’s like the ebbs and flows of business. But that’s just that’s business in general. Because sometimes it can be challenging knowing you have a really good month, and a really bad month, particularly if you don’t have recurring income going. But yeah, I think the just the sales and the client management side of thing, I personally, I don’t find sales as challenging as the managing of clients. And then the tech side of things. Those personally are the most challenging parts of web design. But what is challenging to some may not be as challenging to others, so it’s going to vary between that spectrum.

14) How do You Spend Your Typical Workday?

Josh 36:03
And then 14, before we get the last question, could you give me some some bullet points of how you would spend your typical workday as a web designer. So it’s going to vary day to day, depending on how you have your day set up, like we’re in web design, and back me up on this friends who have been at this for a while, no day looks exactly the same, your it’s always going to vary, what I highly recommend doing is crafting your week. So you have days to get shit done, basically, and then take calls.

Josh 36:35
So you have to remember with web design, especially as a freelancer, you’ve got to work in the business, meaning you’re getting work done designing sites, deliverables, development, fulfillment, actual SEO work, whatever it is, and then you have to work on the business, you have to actually make sure you’re marketing and you have to improve your systems and your processes. That way, you can get better and better and faster and faster and more profitable as you move forward. So you really have to balance on in in, in the work on the work.

Josh 37:04
So that said, You’ve got to craft your week, you have to craft your week to where I recommend having like three days at most be called days. And that doesn’t mean you’re on calls all day. But those are when you’re open for calls, I recommend keeping Mondays completely open to have no calls. And if you do, let me just have a segment where clients can check in with you. And then either way, you’re always going to generally have a couple email segments, I always did an email segment in the morning to where I would just check my email to make sure nothing was broken, no emergencies. And then I was going to follow up with this. But if you do have an emergency, unless a website is like down, you most emergencies, you can get to within 24 to 40 hours. And that’s why I recommend having what I like to call reactionary work time I talk about this in my business courts in depth.

Josh 37:52
But particularly for maintenance and stuff. At some point in the day, most every day, your work and you’re going to want to have at least a half an hour dedicated to like just reactionary work. And this can be in conjunction with an email segment as well. So I recommend just a quick email segment. And then working either on the business working on your systems and processes or marketing, doing some social media or maybe you’re going to a networking group, or some in person meetings and then always having a segment for in the work. We’re actually designing websites. And you could do this in the same day. Or you could have certain days like I had some friends. And I’ve got some students right now who have like a day dedicated to sales, marketing, and then they just schedule everything out. They might have a couple networking groups on a Friday. And then they schedule social media posts for the next week. They work on their systems, and then the rest of the week is in the business, their work, they’re getting projects out.

Josh 38:45
So there’s really no exact certain day but are certain schedule, but those are the things you’re going to kind of move in between. And then again, the big kicker is you when it comes I love this question because when it comes to scheduling out your workday, what you do not want to find yourself being is a 24/7 support person. And that’s what I found myself being and the way you avoid that is having a scheduled call times. And it doesn’t mean that you know, if somebody calls, you’re never gonna get back for a week or two, it just means that you’re not going to answer the phone right away. Or you say like, Hey, I take calls from you know, 2pm to 4pm, Tuesdays and Thursdays, or you can use my Calendly link and we can set up a call segment for like a 15 minute 20 minute chat, or like a consultation kind of thing.

Josh 39:29
And then the biggie is you gotta turn off your freakin notifications. You gotta turn your phone off, you gotta turn your email off. No social media notifications, all that crap has got to be off in order to be really good and get a lot of work done. And as Cal Newport says, and one of my favorite books, deep work, gotta have these deep work segments. That’s how you get stuff done in time segments and work segments. So that’s that’s really the big thing that you’re going to have to avoid as a web designer. No matter where you are in the journey you’re you’ve got How to avoid being a 24/7 support person. And you can do that. And then boundaries too when it comes to like, how you talk with your clients, which we talked on the podcast recently about boundaries. So yeah, that’s the biggie. There, you’re going to be doing email in the work on the work calls and meetings and definitely reactionary work time.

15) How Good are You at Tennis Right Now? 😉

Josh 40:18
And then finally, perhaps the most important question, we’re going to end this off with a question that I feel is really going to benefit you personally. And the question from my friend, Robert, is, on a scale of one to 10. How good are you Josh at tennis right now? Because Rob, and I were on the tennis team to get oh, I just said his name. I just said his real name. Well, the cat is out of the bag. His name is not Robert. It’s actually Rob. So that helped me with identifying who it was anyway, you’ll never know his last name. But all right, Rob, and I were on the tennis team together, where we were a part of the Wolfpack as we are known by to other people who are on the team.

Josh 40:59
And I say, at the height of my tennis prowess, from a scale of one to like, what is this racket thing to like? 10 like Roger Federer, who’s just going to wipe the floor. i At the height of my game, I was probably like a seven, it’d be a 7.5. Like I could pretty dang good, I could do some damage. I’d say I’m probably like a five right now I just I really haven’t had time as a family man with two toddlers and one on the way and everything else I just have. Well, I could say I haven’t been able to make the time. But we’re just in this season of life where I’m just not able to make tennis playing a priority as much. But it’s definitely something that I would like to do over there and plan to do over the next couple of years. A little more.

Josh 41:37
So Robert, you’re in town next and let me know because I don’t believe you’re in Columbus, Ohio right now, let me know because actually, you were the last person I played tennis with, can you believe that as a couple years ago. So I’m going to give myself a five I could definitely hang a little bit. But I would love to do that to work off some web design Pudge and yeah, I’m, I’m gonna have to work on my consistency and get my surf back. But luckily, just like web design, even when you’re out of it for a little while, it doesn’t take too long to to get back in action. So I’m going to give myself a five.

Josh 42:07
There we go, friends, those are my answers to these awesome questions submitted by my friend who’s, you know, testing the waters with web design. So I’ll call you, Robert. Rob, I hope this helps you. I also help this I hope this helps a lot of people who are considering web design, great questions, a lot of honest answers on how I feel about the industry. I thought this was going to be a 15 minute episode, shocker, or a 40 plus minutes, but I hope this was helpful to you. And I would love to know your feedback. Send me a comment, if you would go to Josh hall.co/ 190 190. And let me know your thoughts on the the state of web design now. Do you back these up? Do you back my thoughts up? Or do you feel differently? Let me know. I read all my comments. Josh, hold up CO slash 190.

Josh 42:53
And if you enjoyed this, here’s my ask. Send this to a friend if you feel like somebody is interested in web design, but they’re they want to get a lay of the land from somebody who is non biased and who is honest and has been in the industry and knows a lot about what’s going on right now but is not an employee. Let them know share this episode, it would mean the world to me and I really hope it helps them out as well. So thanks for listening, and I’ll catch you on the next episode. Peace everybody.


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