Last week on the podcast I interviewed Mike Michalowicz diving into a lot of the struggles of being an “accidental entrepreneur.”

One issue I personally faced as an accidental entrepreneur who never had a solid path or plan when I entered the business world was that my systems, procedures and operations were…oh yeah, I didn’t have any systems in place.

Maybe you can relate?

When everything is in your head, there’s no process to follow for website builds and you don’t have any systems or automations in your business, it leads to this nasty O word…overwhelm.

That’s why I’m so excited to have owner of Melissa Morris on the podcast to share her top tips for creating systems and operations that will help you save time, reduce overwhelm and enjoy your business day to day.

Let me know your favorite takeaway from this one on the show notes page at! (yes, I do personally read all comments)

Enjoy friends!

In this episode:

00:00 – Introduction
02:21 – Greeting to Melissa
05:16 – Accidental mismatch
08:48 – Intentional SOP’s
11:44 – Stress is a systems problem
15:12 – Map the workflow first
21:37 – SOP’s are different
23:46 – Building your tool
29:35 – Do this first
31:31 – Get out of your head
34:37 – SOP’s for SOP’s
43:57 – Everything in place
46:16 – A visual example
48:43 – Track your tools
51:56 – Set a goal
55:35 – Success story

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Episode #251 Full Transcription

[00:00:00] Melissa: Well, you don’t have time. Not to like, quite honestly, like you have to get it done. Most of the business owners I work with, they’ll save a minimum of five hours a week. Now you’re saving five hours a week. Your contractor is saving five hours a week. Your VA is saving five hours a week, and you start trickling that out and then I’m gonna save it this week and next week and the week after, and the week after and the week after.

[00:00:23] Melissa: And that’s assuming it just stops at saving five hours. Like we’re not even gonna fix any other processes or get anything else streamlined or continue to tweak and improve. We’re just stopping there. The time savings of that is massive.

[00:00:38] Josh: Well, hello fine friend. Welcome in to this episode of the Web Design Business Podcast, where we’re gonna dive into systems operations and all the things that help us.

[00:00:51] Josh: Essentially save time and work a whole lot less. In short, we’re gonna talk about better systems equaling less overwhelm. I’m so excited to have the owner of Agency Authority, Melissa Morris, onto the podcast for this one, who, my gosh, what a great chat I had with her. I really learned a lot. Uh, and if you’re like me, um, This is not my strong suit.

[00:01:14] Josh: Organizational systems and things like that came very later on in my journey and I’ve had to learn to prioritize those in order to save time and to have less overwhelm. Melissa really challenged me with a lot of good thoughts in this episode that I think are gonna translate to help you in your business too.

[00:01:30] Josh: When it comes to. Essentially making time to save time. I also really got much more clarity around the subject of what’s the difference between systems versus operations, and a lot of things that you can do in your business right now to just clear the overwhelm and just enjoy your day-to-day better. I think what I’ve learned over the years is the more organized you are and the better systems you.

[00:01:53] Josh: You will just enjoy your business much more. So I hope you get out as much as I did in this conversation with Melissa Morris. I’m really excited to dive in here before I bring her on. She is the owner of Agency Authority. You can check them We can also connect with her on LinkedIn, Instagram, and Facebook.

[00:02:11] Josh: We’ll have all the links, uh, on the post for this episode. So without further ado, let’s talk better systems, less overwhelmed with Melissa Morris.

[00:02:27] Josh: Melissa, welcome onto the show. Thanks for taking some time to chat. I am so excited to get into systems operations and business tidying, if that sounds good today.

[00:02:37] Melissa: Sounds great. Let’s do it.

[00:02:39] Josh: So, uh, we were joking before we went live. You made the analogy of. What, what did you say? Kind of like having a, your first apartment, that’s just a scattered mess and you need to tidy it up. Can you elaborate on what you see, uh, most problems from?

[00:02:52] Melissa: Yeah, yeah. I definitely see as a business really starts to gain traction and they’re, um, getting clients and things are starting to really click from a sales and and revenue standpoint. Um, you suddenly turn around and realize your business back in looks a bit like your first apartment.

[00:03:07] Melissa: It’s haphazard, mismatched, and a little messy. And it’s, it’s time to like, tighten things up and, and uplevel that space a little bit. Maybe a couple visits to Ikea or an order, is what I’m saying.

[00:03:19] Josh: There’s so many, uh, corny cliches that are running through my head for taglines. For, for what you do, uh, for what, what did we say? Like, Marie, you got a Marie Condo. Your, uh, your business your business back in yes. Which is where you help. I’m really curious, I love asking this question for entrepreneurs who do a lot of different things. When somebody asks you, Melissa, what you do, uh, what do you tell them?

[00:03:41] Melissa: I say that I am a project manager and operations consultant, and I help agencies leverage operations to maximize their team, increase productivity, so ultimately they can increase their.

[00:03:53] Josh: Okay. And then for somebody not business minded, uh, like your aunt who, you know, has never worked in, uh, a business setting or, or maybe hasn’t run a business, how do you explain it to folks who maybe don’t have that mind for operations or profit yet?

[00:04:07] Melissa: Yeah, I usually just tell ’em I’m a project manager. that I, I just make sure the projects get done and they get done on time and within budget and they say, oh, okay, . Okay. That’s usually just kinda where I leave it.

[00:04:18] Josh: Nice. The reason I ask that too, in all honesty, is because I’ve found a lot of my audience of web designers who are not yet in the business owner mindset. like myself, we come from backgrounds that are not business related, so operations profit. Organization. These things tend to come later on in the journey. Like you very well said here just a minute ago. You like, you make a mess and then you’re like, oh shoot, I gotta clean this up.

[00:04:44] Josh: Cuz like, now I have a business and I’ve got a mess behind everything because sometimes our creative services look great as web designers and we have our process for like, building websites down, but it’s the onboarding, the project management, the revisions, the content collections that take a backseat until it’s a an absolute disaster.

[00:05:01] Josh: I’m kind of curious from your perspective, do you, have you seen a difference between people who are accidental entrepreneurs versus people who like create a business plan and are a little more business savvy when it comes to operations and things that you help out with?

[00:05:16] Melissa: So yes and no. Um, definitely that the accidental business owner definitely has a lot more of that kind of mismatch of stuff going on that I would say is the, the biggest red flag to me that all of a sudden they, they looked around and thought, oh, this isn’t a hobby or a side hustle anymore.

[00:05:33] Melissa: Like, this is a legitimate business. I’m able to really, you know, provide income to my family. Um, so yeah, I would say the, the mismatch of processes, and, and when I say processes, I mean what I’ll, I’ll see is they have like an Excel spreadsheet and then they’ve got this other Google doc where they’re tracking their to-dos and then they’ve got a Slack channel with like a team member.

[00:05:56] Melissa: And then they maybe have like something going on in Basecamp, but then they’ve also kind of got something going on over here in Asana. And then they’ve got that trial to HubSpot that they’re not really doing anything with, but you know, 50, whatever dollars pulls out of their account every month.

[00:06:11] Melissa: Um, so I start to see a lot of these things where things have just kind of built up in silos and they find a problem, like they encounter that roadblock. And entrepreneurs are, obviously, we’re problem solvers, right? Like we tackle challenges, we’re bootstrap folks, so that problem comes up. and they’ll build a solution, but they’re not seeing how that affects all the other pieces of their business, so they’re not looking at it holistically.

[00:06:35] Melissa: Whereas someone who has set out to create a business, their mindset is often a little more holistic. So sometimes there is still a bit of a struggle with some systems and processes there only because initially when you start a business, your first focus is sales. Get clients, get clients as it should be, right?

[00:06:54] Melissa: Like that’s what you have to do. You’ve gotta get out there, you’ve gotta experiment with your service offerings. You’ve gotta experiment. With the work, see how all that’s going. And so sometimes even for my intentional business owners, it’s not even that. They don’t reckon they’re, they just have a better awareness too.

[00:07:10] Melissa: And like, I know this is a mess. I know this needs to be fixed, but now I don’t have time to fix it. And then my accidental business owners are like, What’s going on over here? Like, and then they’re just, you know, ready to throw their hands up because they’re, they’ve got a bit of like, Frankenstein’s monster going on over there. Yeah. Or, or the MacGyver approach, as I like to call it.

[00:07:28] Josh: Nice. And I love, I love the two terms you kind of categorize there between intentional business owner and accidental business owner, because it is generally, I, I, I guess you’re really in one of the two camps. , particularly for web designers, we tend to do graphic designer web design on the side.

[00:07:45] Josh: You get a referral, they pay you, you get another referral from them. Next thing you know, you have a business just, yep. Like I found out early on, I’m like, oh shoot, I was not prepared for this now. And here. Here’s the, the real danger and the real value of, I think what you do, Melissa, and just the mindset of working on systems.

[00:08:02] Josh: Yes, you generally start out with sales. Everyone wants to just get their first client and learn how to get another client, but here becomes the problem if you don’t focus on your systems. It’s like I found out once you start getting a decent amount of clients, if you can’t provide a really good experience for them because your systems are a mess.

[00:08:20] Josh: It’s not gonna be a good experience and you won’t have good referrals. That project may go really badly, not because of any problem with your creativity or skillset, but because your business is just a mess. So there, I guess one question I have about this is like, what other benefits are there to and working on your systems other than just profitability. I mean, client experience was one for me. Do you have any other tips on like why this is so important?

[00:08:48] Melissa: Yeah, and I just wanna reiterate what you said to start, because it is so important. A lot of service based businesses, especially in this arena, web design. Um, you know, even in, in my own business, referrals are where it’s at and that’s how we often build our businesses is based on referrals.

[00:09:06] Melissa: And you’re exactly right. If you are failing to deliver on your promises, if people start having a bad experience with you, word will travel. Um, it’s. I forget the exact statistic, but you know, there’s a saying that like, if you have a bad experience, you’re gonna tell 10 people. If you have a great experience, you’ll tell three.

[00:09:24] Melissa: Um, and that’s really just kind of the nature of how, how we behave. And so we don’t want that, we don’t want people out sharing. You know, with 10 people or you know, whatever that number was, um, that we had a bad experience. So the client experience is definitely a big one.

[00:09:41] Melissa: and where I really see the operations and systems starting to break down is we end up with business owners in severe overwhelm and they’re looking around thinking, okay, I started a business to have flexibility because I wanted more time with my family.

[00:09:55] Melissa: I wanted to be able to pick my kids up from school, and now all of a sudden they’re working way more than they ever did when they. They’re nine to five job, and you’re thinking, what did I do? Like, how did, how did this happen? Um, and then you, you start to build this resentment, you get all this frustration, and then sometimes the business owner thinks they don’t like their work anymore.

[00:10:16] Melissa: Um, and, and I’m like, no, no, no. Pause. Like, let’s pause . Let’s, let’s strip it all the way back. And a lot of times when we start to peek underneath that overwhelm and that feeling, You know, this business isn’t gonna work. We realize that if we just implement some good processes and get some tools in place, a good project management tool, create some standard, some SOPs, we can start to free up a significant amount of time for the business owner.

[00:10:43] Melissa: So now you’ve got a good client experience and you’re having more time back and you know, as we continue to move down that line, now you can bring on more help and more support. It’s so much easier to bring on additional help and team members when you have clear processes in your business and the tools to support that process.

[00:11:04] Josh: Mm. Well said. I mean, all right. We’ve laid out the groundwork for why this is so important. Now I’m excited to dive into some tactical stuff. Before we do though, have you read the book Free Time by Jenny Blake?

[00:11:15] Melissa: Ooh, I haven’t. I’m down.

[00:11:17] Josh: I think you would love that, Melissa.

[00:11:19] Josh: I’ve got it back here. Free time. I’ve got it back here on my shelf Free Time by Jenny Blake. I had her on the podcast a while back and she said a quote that resonated with me so much, and that was that, and I think there’s different versions of this, but it boils down to stress. Is a systems problem. And it’s true, like as I think back to all my biggest stressful points in my case as a web designer of a decade, all of my biggest stresses were because I did not have a system behind that to either be prepared for it or to know how to deal with it.

[00:11:50] Josh: Case in point, content collection, I just said, Hey. Client, will you send me your website content? Naturally it was a disaster. They would give me content delayed all over the place. They would text me like I didn’t tell them when or where or how to give me content. So once I made a system for when, where, how that changed my life.

[00:12:08] Josh: And so it just, to your point there, that was one area of my business that I made a system for that just completely changed the game for me. And I’m kind of curious. , as you said, you were talking about some key terms there, overwhelm operations. I almost feel like stress is a systems problem. Overwhelm is an operations problem, and I don’t know.

[00:12:29] Josh: Do you think that systems and overwhelms, or excuse me, systems and operations, do you view those terms the same as interchangeable terms? Do you feel like there’s a difference between operations and systems?

[00:12:42] Melissa: I think systems is a piece of operations.

[00:12:44] Josh: Okay,

[00:12:45] Melissa: so we have operations as a much bigger area, and then systems is, it starts to become a piece of that, um, if you, you know, can kind of picture that. Right. Um, and so they are very intertwined though, and depending on the size of your business, systems and operations may feel almost interchangeable. Um, and then as a business grows and now you’re introducing HR issues or, um, you’re really lean leaning into KPIs, um, then operations can start to oversee.

[00:13:20] Melissa: A lot of these departments, how these departments work together. Um, but I would say until you get to that point, It can almost feel synonymous, um, for a lot of, a lot of business owners and, and they’re very intertwined, right? Like operations is making the business run smoothly and all the departments underneath that.

[00:13:41] Melissa: And so really on, on the highest level when you think about it, it is just systems in every sense of the way. They just may feel more higher level and more like strategic type systems than maybe a click up list or a click up, if that makes sense.

[00:13:57] Josh: Yeah. I love, no, I love that distinction. I’ve never heard a phrase like that or really thought about it until this conversation, because I hear catchy terms like systems operations, but I never really knew how to tell to separate those two, they always seem the same to me. And I think to your point, you’re right, with a business of a certain size, they may be exactly the same until suddenly you do have some team members or subcontractors.

[00:14:20] Josh: Then there’s a separate set of systems for that versus the systems for client stuff, and that’s all under the operation umbrella of your business. So, Ooh, I love that. I’m loving this visual. Now I like, I wanna dive into Canva. Make this a visual cause this is good. Um, you designer, you I know, right? I’m gonna add to my to-do list, which I shouldn’t do.

[00:14:39] Josh: Speaking of to-do list, you made a great point early on about talking about, uh, having just a Frankenstein scattered approach to different tools. This is so easy to do. Because, oh my gosh, everyone listening I’m sure is like, yes. All right. I’ve got some in Basecamp Anasana and in my email and click up and, and I have a Trello board still. I don’t know if you have any tips other than just say, just choose one tool or like tool tools, but I don’t know.

[00:15:06] Josh: I’ll put the ball in your core here. Melissa, do you have any tips on solidifying your tool set to be able to manage systems in your operations?

[00:15:12] Melissa: I do. I do. So first, let’s think about why does someone go to find a tool? Because they’re feeling overwhelmed. They’re feeling stressed. Balls are dropping. They can’t keep track of things.

[00:15:24] Melissa: And so yes, we do need a tool to help us. Keep track of our work, make sure we’re meeting deadlines, and then ultimately delegate that work as well. But where I see so many business owners make a mistake is they go straight to tool. What you really should do is map out workflow first. Because when you map out your workflow, you start to understand what tool, what you need that tool to do to support the workflow.

[00:15:52] Melissa: So when I say workflow, what I’m talking about is all the pieces and all the steps, the the things you have to do to. Execute pieces of your business. So like if we talked about client onboarding, that’s a process. What are the steps we need to execute client onboarding? And then we’re gonna look for the milestones.

[00:16:11] Melissa: What are key moments in client onboarding when they’ve paid their deposit? would probably be a key one, right? When they’ve scheduled a kickoff call would be a key one when they got their content to you, right? Because we’ve told them how to deliver the content. So we have these key milestones and these are the things we wanna track in our workflow.

[00:16:29] Melissa: So now that we start to see, okay, I need to be able to know when deposit has been paid. When contract has been signed. I need to know when it’s time to loop in the designer or the person who’s gonna do the backend, whatever that starts to look like. So now you really start to see what you need that tool to do for you.

[00:16:49] Melissa: And that is big. Um, and I often see people when they skip that part. That’s how they end up in tools that don’t serve them. Um, I’ve seen people try and use like a, a tool that’s actually a C R m as a project management tool. I’ve seen people try and use, um, really, uh, like a productivity type of app, app or something that’s really just intended for an individual to track and manage their own tasks, trying to use this to manage projects.

[00:17:16] Melissa: A task manager is not a project manager. There’s different functionality. Yes. Preach it. Yes. Praise hands. That’s so important. Yes. So really getting a clear idea of that is the first step. Then you can start to look at the tool. So I will say my favorite tool, especially for web designers and people in this space, is click up for a few reasons.

[00:17:39] Melissa: One, I think it’s robust enough to handle a growing agency. The free version packs a big. For, for what you can deliver on it. And while yes, there is a little bit of a, a learning curve there, it can feel a little steep, um, ultimately like the functionality that provides, like in terms of finding tasks, keeping track, and really getting that high level of what’s going on in your business.

[00:18:02] Melissa: I think it’s, it does the best job. Couple other good ones. I think is another really good one. And then Asana really can hold its own as well. So these are three project management tools. If you’re considering or wondering if you’re in your, you’re in a right one. These are three that you could consider.

[00:18:18] Melissa: But again, think about your workflow first, and then that will help you dial in which of these tools you, you really need. And then the second big piece of all of this, When picking a tool and thinking about a tool is the training, like you have got to have somebody on the team who is like the the tool champion, right?

[00:18:38] Melissa: Like they’re the person who’s gonna understand that tool. You need to make sure the tool, the team is trained on it. And there are two areas that you wanna train your team on. One, we have to technically understand how to use the tool. How do I create a task? How do I go find my. How do I understand where we’re at in a project?

[00:18:54] Melissa: And then part two of that is how do we use it as a team? And this is the piece that a lot of those tutorials, and courses aren’t gonna show you because you need to understand how, when do I sign it to you and you assign it back to me? when do I leave a comment? Am am I putting you as a watcher on this?

[00:19:13] Melissa: How? What do I mention you? Is this a notification? And not having clarity around that is one of the biggest reasons I see people get frustrated with their tool cuz they’re getting overwhelmed with notifications. they’re assigned to everything in there, especially the business owner. And then you feel more overwhelmed than when you didn’t have a tool.

[00:19:34] Josh: So true. Oh my gosh. So many points. So many great nuggets in there to unpack. First thing, yes, the, since we’re right on this, the notification thing is really important. I can’t recommend enough everybody like beware of the notification because also, As a c e O, creative director, project manager or whatever, somebody is in a role where you’re working with people under you to give them tasks.

[00:19:57] Josh: If you just overwhelm them with notifications that doesn’t serve anyone. So I agree. There almost needs to be like a workflow for, for notifications. If you really drill down, it’s like, what? Yes, notifications are, you absolutely need to know. This is the same principle for all notifications, like email, social.

[00:20:15] Josh: I actually turned all my notifications off I did years ago, and it’s the best thing I ever did for my sanity and personal health as a business owner. But the same thing for for project management, like Yes, does. Do you need to know like, Every single little task that’s done. Or do you need to know when a like phase is done?

[00:20:33] Josh: And if you just need to know when a phase is done, then get the notification for that. Like, I can’t recommend enough that this might be a good reminder for people to look at your notifications if you’re working with a team or you have a team and be really careful about those notifications. The other really important thing, I don’t wanna, uh, skip over what you talked about there, Melissa, was the difference between a project manager and a task manager.

[00:20:55] Josh: Because there’s also two other elements to this, which is client communication and team communication. I don’t know from your perspective, I’ve found that project manager tools are good for the client side of things. Task managers are good for team side of things. Do you, would you agree with that principle that,

[00:21:13] Melissa: so when you say the client side, do you mean client facing?

[00:21:17] Josh: Yes. Client facing, client communication, things like that? Yeah. Versus like, you know, project, like I have a 50 step process for all my website builds. The client doesn’t, isn’t gonna see the 50 step process. My team will, but the client just sees like, all right, phase one is done, now we’re on phase two. Uh, that’s the way I approached. With those two differences.

[00:21:37] Melissa: Yeah, I think of it very similarly, and I think maybe we may just use like different vocabulary or language around it, but I think we’re on the same page. So something else I wanna kind of comment on, is there a dif there’s a difference between your SOPs and your workflows?

[00:21:52] Melissa: Right. And this is another one where people tend to use it interchangeably. Um, and, and I think you just need to be careful of that. So your standard operating procedures, your SOPs are literally step by step by step. How do you do this? You go to this file, you go and click it, you name it like this, you tag these three people, right?

[00:22:13] Melissa: Like it is very, very granular, but you don’t need all of that in your workflows, in your project management like, I don’t need, if, if I’m trained, I’m the team member. I don’t need this like, name it naming convention. This as a task check. Because what this is gonna do is it’s gonna overwhelm your team members with tasks for things they just do intuitively.

[00:22:35] Melissa: Or that I’m gonna. You know, as I’m doing this setup, I’m gonna check off these 10 tasks in literally seven minutes, cuz that’s how long it’s gonna take me. So what this can also do is this can confuse the agency owner because you’re gonna look at the number of tasks a team member has and go, oh my gosh, they’ve got 52 tasks due today.

[00:22:51] Melissa: Okay. But 27 of those, they’re gonna knock out in 40 minutes because it’s just like, Right. These simple things intuitively do so you have to be careful on which pieces of your s o p, you start plugging into your project management tool and trying to track. You want to pull out, like you talked about, those key moments, those milestones, like copy design, client approval, like these are those big things that we need to have and be tracking in there.

[00:23:19] Melissa: So yes though, as the team member, I need to be doing task management. Like I just need to see what do I have to get done today? Can I prioritize it? Can I look at my due dates and get it knocked out? The project management component, is that a little more higher level versus like the detail, right? Like you were saying, like as I’m task managing, I need the little details, like I need to get the iStock photo and I need to this, but on a project management piece, I just need to know the homepage is.

[00:23:46] Melissa: Right. So building your tool and setting it up in such a way so that everybody is getting the information they need so that me as the team member can track like, did I get the five iStock photos? Like, and I need to make sure, I need to know where I grabbed them. Did I buy them yet? Did I charge the client?

[00:24:02] Melissa: Like all those little tiny things. Business owner doesn’t need to know all that. They need to know. Check, it’s done. Client doesn’t need, they don’t need to know that you found four of the five iStock photos and that last one’s given you a hard time. Like they just need to know check it’s done. So, yes um, making sure things are set up in such a way that it is flexible enough to accommodate task management and project management is really useful.

[00:24:27] Melissa: And that comes to setting it up properly, your project management tool properly the first time right out of.

[00:24:34] Josh: What a great, great point. I, I, I really like the idea of separating workflows from SOPs. The way I’m envisioning that is it’s like SOPs are essentially checklists, like itemized checklists, whereas workflows may be like a I guess more of a guide or a map from like, here’s where you start, here’s where you want to get to, but the little steps in between each main point, that’s where the SOPs come in. That’s kind of how I’m visualizing that.

[00:25:03] Josh: Case in point, I’m thinking about, we talked about my process a little bit ago. I’m happy to share it on this episode if anyone isn’t in my, I have a process course for web design, and it’s essentially five phases, which I would view as the.

[00:25:16] Josh: That would be my workflow, those five phases. But then this 50 step process that is in between all that is my s o p bingo. So five. The five phases are plan number two essentially is build. Number three is develop. Number four is revisions. Number five is launch. So yes, five phases. But the S so P that the client does not need to see is like how to submit your site to.

[00:25:39] Josh: Search console and how to check your files and check your permalink structure in your website. Sorry, I don’t wanna get technical, but No, exactly, exactly. Yes. That’s why I view that. So I love, yeah, I’m, I’m loving. This is really interesting for me because I have always grouped a lot of this together, but I’m already, I feel like I’m already getting so much clarity on the difference between operations, systems, workflows, SOPs, et cetera.

[00:26:01] Melissa: Yep. Yep. And what that starts to do too is when you’re thinking about project like your five phases, how useful is that as you as a business owner to know how long each of these phases take, where the heavy work periods are, where the lighter work periods are, because now you can actually manage capacity.

[00:26:17] Melissa: How many projects can I handle at a time? When can I onboard my next web client? When can I bring somebody else on? Um, and so looking at workflows and. Arena is just really powerful

[00:26:30] Josh: and I imagine you would back me up in saying that we have got to get this as business owners out of our head in on the paper or well on the digital into a task manager, a project manager into systems SOPs.

[00:26:44] Josh: Because when I start, I actually did not realize I had pretty good systems. In place until I started creating courses and sharing what I had set up in my business. And that’s when I took it to even a deeper level on all this stuff. And then I realized, I know and have, have built up a lot of systems and processes and it’s all, it’s all been in my head.

[00:27:08] Josh: Like I had no idea how complex things were about under the hood of my business until I actually wrote everything out. And I say that. I think a lot of people are probably in a situation right now where you have no idea how much is going on in your head until you put it down in a a task list or a S O P.

[00:27:27] Josh: I do wanna say too, though, this may sound overwhelming to create all this, but have you seen that, like if you take the time to build a system out in a process, yes, it may take a little bit of time on the front end, but then it just starts saving time over and over and over and over again. And, and that’s when the, the, the less overwhelm happens.

[00:27:47] Josh: You get the time back once it starts to, to, I don’t know if you have any thoughts on that, but that’s certainly my experience with taking the time to create a.

[00:27:55] Melissa: It absolutely is. You know, and it can feel like, oh, I don’t have time to do this. Well, you don’t have time. Not to like, quite honestly like you have to get it done. Most of the business owners I work with, they’ll save a minimum of five hours a week. Now you’re saving five hours a week. Your contractor is saving five hours a week. Your VA is saving five hours a week, and you. trickling that out and then I’m gonna save it this week and next week and the week after, and the week after and the week after.

[00:28:21] Melissa: And that’s assuming it just stops at saving five hours. Like we’re not even gonna fix any other processes or get anything else streamlined or continue to tweak and improve. We’re just stopping there. The time savings of that is massive. So either, hey, you’re starting to get your life back. Um, you could probably bring on more clients and increase revenue.

[00:28:42] Melissa: Probably do both. Um, I mean, Like the, the snowball effect of that time savings is just amazing.

[00:28:50] Josh: I, I think that is the key to remember with all this. Uh, I think for anyone who gets to a point where you are overwhelmed and you have that thought, like, well, there’s no way I can work on systems. I can’t even keep up with my projects.

[00:29:01] Josh: I personally learned, my insight on this is to make it a project like make your systems a project. And yes, you don’t need to do the entire business, every little piece, but just a project. I guess that’s kind of a question I have for you is how do you figure out the priority on what to focus on? Because somebody might hear this or see this and think, okay, sounds great.

[00:29:21] Josh: I I need onboarding, I need my SOPs, I need everything. One of the biggest tricks I’ve found is priority, like what is the most important thing? Do you have any insight on maybe figuring out what to focus on or figure out what the priority is on what system to tackle first?

[00:29:35] Melissa: Yeah. For most service providers, it’s gonna be client onboarding and client management and getting those two short up and here’s why. Because when you’re not chasing down your clients and fielding all their extra emails and checking in with the designer and checking over here and scrolling up and down your Google document or your Excel spreadsheet, you actually have the time and bandwidth to start looking at other processes and workflows in your business.

[00:29:59] Melissa: So in my experience, if you can start, start there with onboarding and manage your, like the actual client management and managing that work and getting those in a tool and getting those really short up, like I said, you’re gonna start saving five hours a week. Your team members are gonna start saving five hours a week.

[00:30:14] Melissa: Suddenly there’s a little more breathing room to start taking a look at. Okay. What should we look at next? What should we look at next? And the next step is usually gonna be like your sales referral marketing type, cuz you wanna keep the funnel full, right? Like you wanna get a good handle on those referrals and your marketing so that you can continue to, to keep the business at a nice sustainable growth and you know, really start getting out of that feast and famine.

[00:30:41] Josh: Yeah. For the, uh, I love these succinct, succinct answers, by the way. Uh, I, I, I have a little marker, so I’m using Riverside to record this for anyone doing a podcast interview or video or whatever. And you can click m to make a little mark for like, Ooh, that’s a good clip. And I think I’ve got like 10 already, so I need

[00:30:58] Josh: Every segment is like a gold tip here. For the business owner, like the solo printer. This is a really, really interesting situation because most solo printer, I’ve experienced this myself and then I teach and I coach, are to the point now where they still are like holding onto. processes in their head because they may not have a team yet.

[00:31:20] Josh: What is your, do you have any guidance or advice for people who are just clinging onto their processes and systems in their head and it’s, it’s getting messier as their clients are growing?

[00:31:30] Melissa: Yeah. You’re, you’re so spot on. You gotta get it outta your head. I tell all my, my agency owners, all the business owners I work with, you’ve got to get things out of your head.

[00:31:38] Melissa: And I think there’s a couple ways that you can do that. One way I think is really useful is to have someone else. , um, talk you through it because you know it so intimately, you often don’t know what you, you know? Right. You have a hard time meeting someone where they’re at when they are not familiar with their business.

[00:31:56] Melissa: So I have worked with, um, business owners and I say, okay, well send me what you have to start, and it’ll say like, get the photos. . And I’m like, well, where, where are they? Like, oh, they’re on the drive. Well, in which folder? Like, oh, and which, or is this organized? But they don’t think, they don’t think that because they just know it so well, it’s really hard to step out of that and rem, you know, remember that n I don’t know what your Google Drive looks like, or your Dropbox or, I don’t know these things.

[00:32:26] Melissa: Right. Um, so having somebody else talk you through that and really. Say, okay, well then what do I do then? What do I do? Um, and really taking every step. Another thing that you can do, which I think is really useful, and especially if you’re feeling strapped for time or this idea of, I know for some of my creatives and quick starts actually writing down a process or like starting to, can feel very draining and just not fun at all.

[00:32:51] Melissa: So I would say this, the next time you go to onboard a client, turn on loom. And just record yourself doing it. And you can, and you know, really, if you had to, you could stop there because now it’s, it’s somewhere. And now when you’re like, oh my gosh, I’m so busy. I’m gonna hire a va. You need to onboard this client.

[00:33:08] Melissa: Just go watch this video. Just go watch this video. And they will see. Right, like everything you did, and then now someone can actually get in there and start helping you. So even if that’s all you did was just record yourself doing tasks, that alone would go like a long way to getting some help and some backup.

[00:33:26] Josh: I love that. Yes. It’s better than nothing. And honestly, in a lot of cases it may be even better than written documentation because it is a visual that walks people through. I can’t recommend that enough. And it is one of the, the benefits of that is it’s like, it’s not like I need to clear three hours and write out my processes.

[00:33:44] Josh: And maybe there’s a point where you need to make a checklist of things, but with a loom video. You just, you’re gonna do it anyway. You just do it while you’re recording and try to be as succinct as possible. And yeah, there you go. That’s the sop. I, what do you, what have you found? I, so I have a web design membership and we were talking about SOPs the other day, and a lot of members were curious about what SOPs look like.

[00:34:07] Josh: And I showed them some of mine, which are super, super fancy, Google Docs with. Checklist and Loom video. So like, that’s my SOPs. What have you seen SOPs look like for A lot of, it doesn’t have to be just web designers, but creative agencies, digital marketers, like what? I’m kind of curious from your perspective, you see a lot more systems and operations. What do SOPs look like? Are they like PDF documents? Are they, you know, gated? I don’t know. Are they all over the place?

[00:34:37] Melissa: Well, I can tell you, you and I obviously have the same taste in SOPs because my favorite are Google Docs. Yeah. Or I mean, I guess it could even be a Word doc. Like this is not something that should, in my opinion, be fancy and overcomplicated like.

[00:34:55] Melissa: If I’m going to an S O p, I need just step by step what I need to do, and the more buried it is in fancy pictures or this or in this intricate software, the harder it is for me to just get to what I actually need to know so there are. Some softwares and programs out there. Train I know is one, um, the, the name of the other one is escaping me right now, where, you know, a process street is another one where they’re gonna have your processes for you.

[00:35:23] Melissa: What I have found is the people, and I don’t know, maybe it’s just because those are also the people who are come to me, coming to me for op support. They’re spending a lot of time like in there and trying to tweak and then it matches to this. And then they’ve gotta update that and then, and I feel like they’re really spending a lot of time on this.

[00:35:42] Melissa: Whereas if you had a Google Doc, you can track changes, you can make your comments, um, and you can really just very easily and quickly find what you need. And what’s nice about that too is. You can download it, you can store it on a cloud, you can have it on a usb, like you’ve got this information and it’s really easy for people to update. But I will say you need an SOP for managing your SOPs.

[00:36:05] Josh: That’s great. I, I wanted to ask you about that because then I was just gonna say, my problem that I discovered recently is I am really good at creating processes, but being a creative, I never, ever wanna look at it again. Uh, the other problem I discovered about myself is that I’m really good at creating processes, but I don’t.

[00:36:24] Josh: Have an sop, like you said, that actually has them linked and grouped together. So I’m literally in the process right now of putting my processes together and organizing them in folders because as my members were asking me to see my processes, I looked for ’em and I was like, Shoot, I can’t find this one.

[00:36:39] Josh: Where’s my podcast process? And then I realized I had it on a different, I I, I was signed in with a different Gmail address when I created it and sent to my va. And now I’m like, well, now I have to log out and find it. So it was a good, uh, bec I sent that, like, I made that like two years ago. and I haven’t looked at it since I made the process, gave it to her, and then I haven’t looked at it.

[00:36:58] Josh: So I’m in the process of finding all my SOPs and organizing them. Yeah. I love that reminder, because that’s the other big problem for a lot of creatives is organizing your organization.

[00:37:09] Melissa: Yes. And then what happens is you start ending up with outdated SOPs or if people have just kind of, can go rogue and just go in there and start making changes. What can happen sometimes too, where I’ve seen is when this is just shifted to the team members and team members can go. Cuz I, I think there’s this mindset of like the agency owner where they’re doing the work, they know what needs to be done, they should just go in and update the SOPs as needed and yes.

[00:37:37] Melissa: But what can happen then is you start having people doing things their own way, and the standards that you created for your business are starting to get watered down. And then what I’ve also seen as team members doing things in such a way that the business owner was not aware of, that the business owner, that’s not what they wanted, that was not their intent.

[00:37:56] Melissa: And I’m not talking about anything egregious, obviously. Um, you know, I, I don’t think it’s like a lack of trust issue, but when there’s process for managing your process. and someone who is kind of like the the overseer with anything in your business, someone needs to be the person accountable for it.

[00:38:14] Melissa: Like I am a big believer in that. And someone needs to be accountable for your tools and your processes. And if someone internally isn’t able to serve that function, then maybe it is time to start looking outside of the business for someone to manage that. And then what needs to happen is when. Account manager or a designer or somebody comes and says, Hey, this is not feeling like the way we need to do things anymore.

[00:38:36] Melissa: We need to do them this way. Cool. That’s great. And now what your, uh, accountability. The person accountable for keeping the systems and processes and tools and in place. What they’re gonna do is they’re gonna go back to the original, so, They can make those changes, then what they’re gonna do is they’re gonna make sure your tool reflects the changes that we’ve made in the s o P and if there’s file changes that need to be made, right?

[00:39:01] Melissa: Anything else that that s o p touch and impacts, and then they’re gonna make sure the rest of the team is trained. and knows about this change now, and this sounds long and complex. I mean, all of this could happen in a matter of a couple of days, right? Like this, yeah, this talk through that makes it sound like this, this long, and you’re like, oh my gosh, this sounds like so, no.

[00:39:20] Melissa: I mean, you could knock all of this out in an afternoon depending on the size of the change. But the point is, is you’re then keeping your systems, processes, and tools clean. Tidy and you’re keeping the integrity of them. And then of course the team is, is up to date.

[00:39:34] Josh: Can you tell me more about this SOP for SOPs? Like, is it basically just a quick link type of like, uh, hierarchy document that should be probably one or two pages. What are some, because this is, as I’m thinking about this, as I’m thinking about organizing my stuff, I was just going to make a folder and do bookmarks, but now I’m like, well, . What if I just have a Google Doc that I have bookmarked right under my main folder that.

[00:39:59] Josh: The so P for SOPs and it’s just, IT link, it’s almost like a website. It’s like a homepage. It’s like the navigation I guess. Yeah. And that would link to the subsequent SOPs and then the subfolders. Is that a good example of an SOP for SOPs?

[00:40:11] Melissa: I think that’s part of what your So p for SOPs should, we’re getting very meta right now. Um, I think that should, that should be part of it, cuz that’s really the table of contents that’s gonna help me navigate through the SOPs and find what I need. But I’m also talking about things. In the scenario I just addressed, who will verify a change? Who’s allowed to go in and make changes? How are we gonna note that change?

[00:40:35] Melissa: Um, you know, I’ve seen things too. I mentioned before that I really like click up and you can have statuses in there. Well, or. Custom fields, and I don’t wanna get too down the rabbit hole on some of this language, but what I have seen is team members think, oh, well I need to add this new status so that I can keep track of this.

[00:40:53] Melissa: And then someone else goes and they add a new status and then someone else, and then all of a sudden the tool and the software itself is getting very, very messy because I put put something as like copy and writing, and then someone else put it like copy slash. and then some. And so then now when I’m trying to go in and figure out what’s going on, I have all these weird different versions.

[00:41:15] Melissa: So I think including in your SOP for SOPs, you wanna say who can make changes to it? Like, does someone need to approve those? How are we gonna make sure the whole team knows it? How are we noting that that has been updated? Are we changing the name of the file? Are we just making a note there? How do we need to track who made the change?

[00:41:34] Melissa: Does that matter? And some of these things may or may not matter to your business, but the point is, is you have it documented and you know, and the team two. So then this way when we recognize there needs to be a change, you come back to it. And the last thing that should be in it is a time to come back and review your SOPs.

[00:41:52] Melissa: And you should have a task and your project management tool that says, Hey, it’s July. You need to go check out the onboarding workflow. Um, and it’s useful too sometimes to just, to make sure the links still work. Um, if you set up an automation, if you have any zaps going on, that those things are all still functioning properly because it happens sometimes and you don’t even.

[00:42:11] Melissa: But you know, people are getting sent to a broken link, um, or a zap stop functioning six weeks ago, and you thought people were getting pulled onto your list and they’re not getting pulled onto your list. So making a point for somebody to go through and check those is really useful.

[00:42:26] Josh: Yeah, that’s such good advice. I mean, now I’m like, now this, this conversation has made me realize my next big project is to get all my freaking SOPs together and clean up some stuff and organize this because I. I did what I tell my students not to do, which is to just build stuff and then not keep it well organized on my end.

[00:42:46] Josh: And then as I’m looking at it now, it’s just because, it’s one of those things where a lot of the stuff I’m not doing myself or it’s kind of in my head or, or I, I wrote it down somewhere, but I, I have not done a good job at organizing all of it, and now it’s all scattered.

[00:43:00] Josh: This is you’re, you’re kind of, I know you’re not personally calling me out, but this conversation is calling me out to get a handle on this stuff, especially as I level up in my business and get some more help with some processes. Honestly, it’s like cleaning. It’s like doing anything, like cleaning your house.

[00:43:17] Josh: It’s like once you do it, it feels amazing. And then the next time you make a, there’s messes I told you before went live. I have 305. Um, that’s a whole different ballgame, but we, we have learned to try to, here, here’s a big point that I’ve learned in life to carry, that carries over to systems and operations.

[00:43:32] Josh: everything needs a home. And because if you just make a process and let it sit in the Google Doc universe, , good luck. I mean, luckily the searchability is great, but it needs a home. Like where does it go in that sop for SOPs? That’s, that’s my big mindset shift recently when it comes to organization is give your files, give your systems process as a home. Um, I don’t know if you have. Insight on that, but that’s definitely something I’ve learned that.

[00:43:57] Melissa: So no, there’s a saying, um, everything has a place and everything in its place. Like the, there’s a spot where everything is supposed to go and then put it there, like put it there And you’re absolutely right. And then one of the things too that people forget about, you know, cuz you mentioned searchability.

[00:44:13] Melissa: Have been on countless calls with an agency owner and they’re like, oh, I’ve got that workflow written down. Um, onboarding, oh, I didn’t name. Um, onboarding workflow, um, starting our project. What did I name it? And then they’re looking and looking and looking. Naming conventions will save your s o p life. Have a naming convention.

[00:44:35] Josh: That’s beautiful. That’s literally what happened. Well, night, live call the other week when I was looking for the sop, I was like, well, I found this version or this other style or this other, uh, aspect of it, but I didn’t find the main one.

[00:44:47] Josh: And then that’s when I realized, ah, I think I signed in with a different Gmail and then I didn’t tie it to the one I’m using now. So yeah, great point. But regardless, yeah, the searching thing is like, well, what Josh? Calls onboarding right now, Josh, five years ago may have called getting started or Right. Uh, yeah, yeah. Like that’s a great, great point.

[00:45:05] Melissa: Or the welcome, the welcome thing or the, the onboarding email or the welcome email or, and that, yep. And then you’re hunting around

[00:45:12] Josh: and I do think that that point of, uh, the mess and then just trying to organize the mess. I think one other component that’s interesting to this, I literally thought, With my family recently, uh, after Christmas, a while ago, we had their toy room.

[00:45:29] Josh: Our kids, we have a big play space, which is awesome, but it becomes just a disaster often. But we had all these new toys, grandparents went wild this year, and so we had all these new toys and it was just a complete like, Cluster of mess in the middle of the floor and we couldn’t pick it up and organize it because we needed to decide where these things are gonna go.

[00:45:49] Josh: And it was a perfect analogy for these, these systems and processes when you’re creating new ones. So I, I don’t know if you have any organization tips, maybe it’s already something we’ve covered, but. That strikes me as a parallel to this because it’s like if we get a bunch of new toys from my kids, it’s going to be a mess until we decide where they go, where their place is, where their home is, what current toys we need to take down in the basement and store for a while. I imagine that translates to the systems world too, right?

[00:46:16] Melissa: Oh, I think that is a perfect analogy. And I have two young kids, so I feel your pain. Um, but you’re right. You have this ma you have all of these toys, right? You have all of these processes. Well, first, let’s see, maybe what don’t we need anymore?

[00:46:29] Melissa: What have they outgrown? Like what, what is the business outgrown like, we actually don’t need that anymore. Okay, well, let’s donate those. Let’s, let’s get rid of those. Okay. Now let’s start to look at what’s left. Well, now we can start to group them. Like we’re gonna put the, the cars and trucks and we’re gonna put the puzzles and games, and then we’re gonna put books and dolls.

[00:46:49] Melissa: Right? You can start to. Legos over here. You start to get them in their piles. Okay, well now I have all these piles. Well, where am I gonna put ’em? Okay, well now let’s get one of those little cubbies, or you know, or those little bins, right? So now I can say, okay, well all the cars and trucks are gonna go in this bin and all the Legos are gonna go in in this bin.

[00:47:07] Melissa: And then you can sort and stack and label. So just as you would like with these physical toys or anything. Right? Like organize them. You wanna think through that same mindset when you’re doing it just with a digital files. What don’t I need anymore? Okay, well let’s just archive those. We don’t need anymore.

[00:47:24] Melissa: Well, what’s left? Okay. Well let’s, these are all in relation to this service offering, so we’re gonna put all those in a folder and these all go to our sales. So we’re gonna put all these in a folder. Okay. Well now I bins for them? Well, the bins are really gonna be like your file structure and your hierarchy, right?

[00:47:41] Melissa: So maybe I have a services folder. My bin. So any of those other folders that we’re holding service documents are gonna go in there. And then I have this other one, right, that’s, um, it maybe accounting and money and that so that, you know, the folder with the statements and the folder with, uh, the, the employee documents.

[00:48:01] Melissa: Both those folders are gonna go in the finances bin or folder. So when you can start to think about it in that way, it does get easier to visualize how to organize and keep these things tidy.

[00:48:14] Josh: Yeah, I love that. And I was thinking back to that, like the first level of the s o p that essentially links is like a table of contents, everything else.

[00:48:22] Josh: One final question on that note was, was there anything else that you would recommend for that sop, for SOPs? You mentioned like the access points, team members access hierarchy. Some sort of table of contents that goes to the main levels before subfolders. Is there anything else that maybe we’ve overlooked for that? Like first s o P that main one?

[00:48:43] Melissa: No, I would just, I, well, I guess maybe just make sure you’re including to the tool, like any tools that you would need to check on, uh, maybe the level of tool that you’re at, like in terms of are you a beginner, a premium level, uh, whatever, how much each seat costs for that tier or that level.

[00:49:00] Melissa: Um, and then maybe like some billing information associated with that. That can actually be really useful too, because as your SOPs are growing, you. You know, if you decide, oh, actually we’re gonna bring all the contractors into click up, well, how might that impact? Um, you know, the, the seats that we have, do we need to upgrade?

[00:49:18] Melissa: Um, or again, if someone wants to make a change, like, oh, that is a really good idea, but how would this impact, like that would require upgrading. So what’s our current? And so just having that stuff handy could be also be helpful in making some decisions quickly.

[00:49:32] Josh: I think that is a wonderful page or two of information that links out to all the SOPs is, uh, team members with their access points and options and then the tools slash billing of the tools and then your table of contents for all the, that’s wonderful. That’s literally what I’m gonna do for my next big project.

[00:49:53] Josh: And side note to that point with keeping track of your tools, I’m so glad you mentioned that because the other thing is, as you mentioned in the very start of this, you’re, I’m sure there’s a lot of people listening and watching right now that have a bunch of subscriptions that are not using, but you just forgot about it and.

[00:50:09] Josh: I did that. I recently, I’ve reevaluated some of my SOPs, uh, with Cam, my va, and I, oh, well, I got an annual renewal for Otter, which is our voice transcriptions that we use for this podcast. And, um, somehow we get to talking about that and she’s like, oh, I’m using my own Otter. Uh, like we had talked about it when she came on board and I completely forgot that she had an access with Otter.

[00:50:32] Josh: So I was paying whatever it is, like a hundred or 120 bucks a year. And she wasn’t even using it. It’s not her fault. I just, I had bought it and then I forgot that she mentioned that she has an, has a plan to it and so I just wasted like 120 bucks not using it. Um, good for Otter. It’s a great tool, but it’s just a practical example of if I had that in SOP and saw my active subscriptions on tools, I would’ve been like, oh, well we’re good on that.

[00:50:57] Josh: So we’re good on that. Yeah. Not a great room. Yeah. Another great deal. Yeah. Well, Melissa, this has been awesome. Uh, I wanna get towards wrapping this up because my head’s spinning and I, before I like, make it any more complicated on myself, I feel like I have plenty to do. This is my favorite part of all this, though, is I really feel like as a creative person, We struggle with visualizing operations systems and all the stuff we’ve talked about, but this is really, this has honestly shed some light for me.

[00:51:23] Josh: I, I, I think it probably has for a lot of other folks as well, with the difference between operations and systems SOPs, how to practically do this, not overwhelming. Uh, I, I am kind of curious I have found doing things step by. Phase by phase has been a key to sustainability with all this stuff. Have you, I, I guess for somebody who is overwhelmed because of their overwhelming systems, how do you help them?

[00:51:48] Josh: Ta, maybe we’ve already covered this with priority and focus, but how do you help them take it step by step? Do you give it like an annual goal? Do you give it a quarterly goal? What’s that look like?

[00:51:56] Melissa: Yeah, so when I start working with somebody, we six months. Okay. I say, stick with me for six months. Right? And then we can reevaluate because especially when you’ve brought in someone like us who has that experience, um, we’ve, we’ve seen it. We’ve obviously have our own systems that we can really help move and expedite people through. If you can just get through those six months, you’ll start seeing big, big gains and, and we’re gonna tackle those systems and processes that I’ve already mentioned.

[00:52:24] Melissa: The onboarding, the management, we’re gonna get the tools, we’re gonna get the team trained up. And really, once all of that is done, it’s like, , right? Like, you’re like, okay. And you start to see the light at the end of the tunnel. And at that point, you know, sometimes we’re even ready to move into like a bit of a maintenance phase with, with businesses.

[00:52:43] Melissa: So, you know, if, if you feel ready, start tackling it on your own. Start with onboarding. Start with management. If you’re at a space though, where you know, time is not allowing, or some people. They just, it’s not their thing. They’re like, I hate this, I don’t wanna do this. I don’t like this. Um, some people it’s just a time, like this is something that they feel really good about, but they don’t have time. Then it’s okay, like, you know, phone a friend and, and, and get some support.

[00:53:10] Josh: I love that mess. It’s again, for my audience who are primarily creatives, there’s, there’s a lot of folks who are business owners and business minded right from the start, but a high percentage of people are like me who come from a background that’s very different or creative.

[00:53:24] Josh: And then next thing you know, you got a Frankenstein business that’s a complete and utter mess. And maybe, yeah, maybe you do good work and you have a lot of good, you know, skillsets. But running the business. On the business and not just in the business, getting projects done. That’s the, that’s the true struggle.

[00:53:40] Josh: And look, the reality is, I hate, I, maybe I have to be blunt in telling everyone, you may not like it, but would you rather just be outta business in a few years because that’s probably where it’s gonna lead. Or you’re gonna be overwhelmed and burned out, hold the burnout, and then you’re gonna burn it.

[00:53:57] Josh: Great point. Yeah. So you really have to get to a point where it’s like, I’d rather have a little bit of suffer just to get these processes done. And I’m telling you right now, I promise everybody, cuz I’m, I’m right there with you right now. When you build these systems and organize your SOS and everything, it, first of all, it doesn’t take as long as we make, we think it will.

[00:54:16] Josh: It’s like, my God, that took like 35 minutes and I’ve been thinking about that for two years. Why didn’t I just freaking do it? , uh, so just do it. I promise. It’ll make everything better, especially for those who are scaling and are adding team members and going that next level. So yeah. Gosh, so much. Great.

[00:54:32] Josh: So many, uh, great points in this. Melissa, I have one final question for you, but, uh, you talked about your, your, your services. Where would you like people to go to connect with you and find out more about you here?

[00:54:42] Melissa: Yeah, yeah, you should go to my website. So if any of this is resonating with you or you’re feeling like you have questions, you can just hop over to your agency

[00:54:52] Melissa: Um, we can hop on a call. I can share some more info with you, or you can always hop into the LinkedIn dms and find me over there too, Melissa V. Morris, and I would be happy to, uh, share some, share some ideas with you.

[00:55:05] Josh: Awesome. Well, I wanna have one final thought with you here, and I, I just wanna allow you to maybe share what has been one of your favorite examples of like a success story that you’ve helped somebody? Has there been one that you know is just like a absolute mess and I, I don’t know, I’d love to hear from you, like what’s a, what, what’s a good example? We, we’ve talked all about the benefits, the tools, the tactics, but I would love to hear a result that you’ve seen.

[00:55:31] Melissa: Yeah. For me, it’s the person who, and there’s been a few of ’em, so I couldn’t pick just one, but when they say like, I didn’t work this weekend. I didn’t work this weekend and it was okay. Um, one of my clients, she, um, we’ve been working together a little over a year at this point, and she took her first week long vacation.

[00:55:51] Melissa: and her team was able to handle things and everybody knew what was going on and everybody, and it was fine. And it was fine. And so when, when those business owners come to me and say that, like, I took a vacation and it was great. Everything, I knew what was going on, the team was equipped to handle it. Um, or I, I didn’t work this weekend. When they say, Melissa, I didn’t work this weekend. I’m like, yes. We did it.

[00:56:16] Josh: that’s wonderful. I’m so glad you share that. Hey, if I could step into my business coaching shoes and give you just maybe a thought to consider it would be to maybe put that on your website as like a case study or success story, uh, because with a business like yours, Seeing those like real life results cuz we all see these terms, profit, uh, productivity, time, all those things like that.

[00:56:42] Josh: But that little story right there, Melissa, I got to go on vacation for a weekend. I didn’t even see, I didn’t even log in my email. That’s like, that’s the true win and that’s honestly a win for everyone in this conversation. Like that is what all this leads to. The end result is, is something tangible like that when it like, it’s so funny.

[00:57:01] Josh: There’s all these different layers of, okay, I’m overwhelmed. Gonna work on a system, gonna create an s o p, gonna organize it, gonna do all the things we just talked about, that’s going to increase profit. Give my time back. But that’s not the end goal. Now it’s like, well, what’s the result? What’s, what are you gonna do with your time back?

[00:57:17] Josh: Maybe it’s more time with kids. Maybe it’s not working weekends, maybe it’s going on vacation. So I just, I don’t know. I just wanted to share that. I was just checking your website out and I thought, I feel like one missing piece is to share some of those, like few.

[00:57:30] Melissa: I will. Yeah. I appreciate that. Absolutely.

[00:57:33] Josh: So, hey, this was a coaching session for both of us, uh, for everyone listening. So Melissa, thank you so much for your time today. I really, really enjoyed this. I, I, look, I do not like talking systems and processes much because it’s not my thing. It, uh, this doesn’t fire me up. It systems and processes tend to drain me.

[00:57:51] Josh: Uh, Unless I don’t have them organized like my SOPs, which is why I’m going to bite the bullet, get it organized, and then and reap the, reap the reward afterwards. So you’ve really given me a lot to think about. I appreciate your time and your expertise on all this.

[00:58:06] Melissa: Oh, thank you so much for having me. I truly enjoyed our conversation.

[00:58:11] Josh: All righty then. Well, I hope you enjoyed this episode with Melissa on all the things in regards to better systems and less overwhelmed. I would love to hear maybe one of your favorite takeaways that we went over. You can leave a comment on the post of this podcast. This podcast is episode 251, so you can go to josh 2 51.

[00:58:30] Josh: Leave us a comment there on all the posts for these episodes. We have all the links mentioned, resources and anything else that we, uh, went into. And if you are just an audio listener, we do have the video version of this conversation, which you can find on YouTube or on that post page. So head there after this.

[00:58:46] Josh: Again, thank you to. For coming on and sharing some awesome tips in regards to, uh, reducing your overwhelm as a web designed business owner. Check her LinkedIn, Instagram and Facebook. She’s active on all those links are at the post. Until next time, thanks for tuning in. Make sure you subscribe and hey, if you would, a personal request, leave a podcast review.

[00:59:05] Josh: If you’ve been enjoy joining the show. I read all them. It really does help grow the show and it would mean. To me, if you’ve been enjoying it and you wanna spread the love and leave a uh, a podcast review, you can do that if you go to josh review and you can leave a review wherever you listen.

[00:59:21] Josh: All right, see you on the next one.

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