Email is back, baby!
What was (not long ago) considered an outdated way to market and grow your business is thriving and there are more opportunities than ever to grow your own business through email marketing and offer it as one of your web design services if interested!
In this podcast episode, I’m so excited to bring on one of my students and founding members of Web Designer Pro™, April Ray who literally pulls back the curtain on how she sells and offers email marketing as a primary service in her business.
- How to sell email marketing
- How to offer it along with your other primary web design services
- How to separate list building vs sales sequences
- How to package up ongoing email marketing services
- Whether or not emails should be blog posts
And oh so much more.
I’ve seen April grow her business from freelancer just starting out, to soloprenuer profession to now scaling her business with a copywriter and contractors. And one of the many things she’s done well is refine her services to get results for clients while also doing things she enjoys and is darn good at, like email marketing.
If you’re interested in offering email marketing or just curious about what it’s like adding a service like this, I hope this conversation helps!
In this episode:
00:00 – Introduction
03:44 – Greeting to April
06:25 – Have three offers
14:02 – Email practicality
18:35 – Social media posting
23:21 – Different strategies
26:46 – Setting expectations
29:22 – When to sell email
40:55 – Pricing email
49:33 – Email & SEO
53:04 – Scaling with superpowers
1:00:40 – How to start email sales
Connect with April:
Featured links mentioned:
- SEO Specialist Michelle Bourbonniere | editedbymichelle.com
- Amy Porterfield’s Free Masterclass – The Relaxed Business Owners Guide To Building A Profitable Email List
- According to Google – Kentucky adopted a policy of neutrality until September 1861, when a pro-Union element gained control of the legislature.😉
Episode #257 Full Transcription
[00:00:00] April: For pricing. I, you know, I kind of looked at it hourly, how much time it takes, and then I kind of try to factor in like results. What kind of results is this going to provide? So my setup fee obviously is one of the lowest because it does not. It gets results as, and it adds people to your list. But then sales sequence and the, um, nurture sequence that is more results driven because the, that’s actually the con converting the people on your list to customers that the goal of that is, is to convert those people.
[00:00:37] Josh: Hello, friend. Lovely to have you here for this episode. I say lovely, because it is a lovely day outside right now at the time of recording this.
[00:00:46] Josh: So I’m in good spirits. Not only because of that, but because of this episode. We are gonna take a deep dive into offering email marketing as a web design service. So we’re going niche in this one. Now, the really cool thing about email is that email’s back, baby email is more important than ever. And there’s so many opportunities to offer email marketing, four web design clients, apart from just doing email marketing yourself, uh, to grow your business.
[00:01:16] Josh: But you can actually, if interested, use this as a service to help grow your client’s business and to bring traffic to the website. But the question is, how do you offer email marketing? How do you sell it? What’s included in it? What are the variables for managing email marketing? Well, good news if you’re interested in offering this, or maybe it is something you’re doing just kind of on the side.
[00:01:37] Josh: This episode is really gonna pull back the curtain of somebody who is doing this very well and who has email marketing as one of her primary services. This is one of my students, April Ray, who I’ve been fortunate to see grow her business from a freelancer to a full-time solo per Panera, and now she’s scaling and email marketing is a big part of her business.
[00:02:00] Josh: This is April Ray and wow, she has done such a great job of refining her business over the past few years. And one thing I like about what I’ve seen her do is she’s taken my principles and recommendations for having three categories of services. So real quick before she comes on, for those who don’t know of you have not yet been through my business course, which is inside a web designer.
[00:02:23] Josh: What I teach in there is to have three categories of services, one category for building services like building and redesigning websites. One category for supporting through websites, through hosting, maintenance care, and ongoing support. And then the third category is to help clients grow their business with their website.
[00:02:42] Josh: Now, the third category, you can do whatever your heart desires for April, she has chosen email marketing because she has learned a lot about it and found out that she enjoys it. She’s good at it. And in this episode, she really does pull back the curtain on how he offers it, how she sells it, what’s included.
[00:03:00] Josh: And I really think it’s gonna help you if you’re interested in offering email marketing for your clients. So can’t wait to hear what you think. Please let us know your thoughts on this episode. Go to josh hall.co/ 2 57 to drop a comment and to check out all the resources that we’re gonna be mentioning in this episode, which we’ll have linked over there.
[00:03:16] Josh: And before I bring on April, I highly recommend if you want some inspiration on how to have a successful solo web. Uh, business. Check out april ray creative.com. You can go over there to connect with her and to see everything that we’re talking about here on this episode. Without further ado, here’s April to share everything that she’s learned and offering email marketing for her web design clients.
[00:03:43] Josh: April, welcome officially to the show. You’ve been, you’ve one of my first students. I talk about you. I feel like I’ve talked about you a lot on the show recently, and I feature your website and some of your stuff and some presentations I do. So I feel like this is long overdue. Awesome.
[00:04:00] April: Awesome. Well, thank you. I’m so excited to be here.
[00:04:03] Josh: Uh, we have like several topics that we explored diving into and I think we’re gonna get to some of those in, in different regards moving forward. But I thought what might be really interesting today is to focus on email market. For web designers. I know that’s something you have experience in in kind of two different areas it seems like What, so what you’re doing like email marketing for you, for marketing, but then also you’re doing email marketing for clients now, right?
[00:04:28] Josh: Maybe. Maybe we can go backwards. Maybe we can like start with how. Well, how you’re offering email marketing now and then I’d love to get a little bit of the backstory that led you here.
[00:04:37] April: Yeah. Yeah. So, um, so with my clients, I, um, you know, I obviously offer web design as a main thing, but such a big part of that is making sure we capture the people who get on your website and then maybe bounce off and forget about you.
[00:04:52] April: But we want to capture those leads and we do that through email marketing. So I offer pretty much three different things, uh, in like a package form offer, like a, a setup, um, email marketing setup where I, I, I use Flow Desk primarily. Um, I was the early adopter of it by accident and, uh, love it. It’s great, it’s beautiful.
[00:05:14] April: Um, but I’ll go in and I’ll set up their brand settings and set ’em up with, um, like a, a lead magnet, a form, um, a workflow so that people can automatically get that response back. All those things, uh, even might even set ’em up a template. Like for a newsletter or something that they can go in and. So that’s like the setup package.
[00:05:36] April: And then I offer a sales sequence package, which Josh have you read? Um, I know we’ve all read Story brand, uh, but Marketing Made Simple by
[00:05:45] Josh: Donald Miller. I have not read that yet. Is it good? I kind of wonder what the difference was between that and Story Brand. Yeah, it’s good.
[00:05:51] April: It’s very practical. Uh, it like, gives you, it shows you like here is what you put in your header on your website. Ah, it’s, uh, I’ll recommend it to my clients a
[00:06:01] Josh: lot. So. Well, it’s funny you mentioned Donald Miller cuz I just like a couple weeks ago sent a request to his team to see if he’d be interested coming on the show, so Oh, if he does, I’ll read that. And then that’s my public, um, that, that’s my public commitment. I’ll read that book and try to get Donald on. That’d be great. Yeah,
[00:06:18] April: and it’s, it’s really short. I keep it in my desk because that’s how we use it. Uh, cause it’s so practical. But one of the chapters he has is on sale sequences and just, it’s the kind of the intentional path that you want your client to take or your potential client to take.
[00:06:34] April: So they get that lead magnet. Then they get the next step of like, okay, here is the problem you’re facing and here’s how I can solve it. That’s one of the emails. Then there’s an email on testimonials or case studies, there’s an email about, um, I’m trying to think like a paradigm shift about how like, now you understand this information and this is why you’re gonna hire me.
[00:06:57] April: And like, um, there’s one more and I’m totally blanking on it, but, um, and then there’s a final sale email. So, um, it’s like five emails and it just kind of intentionally walks someone through the journey of like, of the buying decision. So that’s.
[00:07:13] Josh: You’re able to apply that for your clients, but then for you too, right? Yeah. Like I guess that’s one cool thing about email marketing. If it works for a client, you can put it in your own business.
[00:07:21] April: Yeah. Yeah. So I do that with my, my business, with my clients. I’ll bring in for the sales sequence, I bring in my copywriter. So she writes all the copy, and then I go in and design the emails, um, and set up all the automation and everything.
[00:07:35] April: And then the final thing I offer is ongoing newsletters, uh, or monthly email blast. And then that also ties in with seo, which I’m doing stuff with Michelle. So it all kinda, uh, ties in together. But yeah, those are, those are kind of the three big services I offer an email
[00:07:53] Josh: marketing. Oh, that’s so great. And if anyone goes to your website and wants to check out how you display these services, you do. April. You do such a great job. It’s one reason why I view you as like, A plus case study student. I’ve seen your brand really just mature over the years, which has been so cool. And the way you have your services, the big three website design, monthly plans, and email marketing.
[00:08:16] Josh: What’s interesting about this is I feel like you followed what I share in the business course, which is to have three different categories of services. One for website builds, which could entail redesigns and any sort of building work. And then monthly care, hosting, maintenance, all this stuff, which, that was the first course you joined, I think you.
[00:08:35] Josh: Didn’t we look at it recently? I think you were in like my first five or 10 students in my, uh, maintenance plan course like you, which you, which is crazy.
[00:08:41] April: I didn’t even realize you just launched it. I figured it had been up for years. Oh,
[00:08:45] Josh: that’s funny. Yeah, I didn’t realize that. Yeah, like Richard, who I had on a little bit ago, he said he was like waiting and then, uh, he was hoping to be the first. so yeah, I was like one of those where yeah, you join it had, you didn’t know I just launched it. But I say that to say I’ve seen you, you know, since I started teaching, I’ve seen this evolve. And then you have your, your email marketing, which is in the grow, the grow category, that’s mm-hmm. Grow could really be so many different things.
[00:09:08] Josh: It can be SEO like you’re doing, it can be email marketing, it could be social media marketing, digital marketing, whatever. What made you, cuz I wanna get a little bit of the backstory on how you got into the email marketing side of things. And maybe this will answer that question, but I’m kind of curious from your perspective, April, like why email marketing? When did, when did that come into the, the forefront for you?
[00:09:31] April: So it’s funny because, I have experience in a lot of different digital marketing arenas. I started in higher education actually. Um, I was in college and I got a job working for the provost and Vice President of Academic Affairs. I had answered the phone like that.
[00:09:47] April: Oh, what a title. Um, and so they used Constant Contact and I hated it. One of my earliest, uh, reasons I had to use like HTML code, cause you, you would just go in, the formatting would be all messed up and you had to go into the code to fix it. And so I hated it.
[00:10:07] April: And then, Five years goes by, I’m back in another higher ed college situation, working as the director of marketing and our director of pr she did the email marketing, but she would have me come and edit the newsletter because it was so frustrating and it was still constant contact and it still was awful. It was just so hard to use. Um, and I, so when I launched my business, I intentionally left email marketing out of my services that I offered.
[00:10:35] April: I offered, oh, all sorts of stuff I offered like logo design and video editing and all these things I don’t do anymore. Really.
[00:10:43] Josh: I feel like I remember that it was like a buffet of April services. Yeah, I
[00:10:46] April: was like, I don’t know, I’m just gonna throw everything at the wall and see what sticks. So it was really one of those situations. But I left off email marketing cause I hated it. I thought it was awful. I was like, no one’s reading this crap. It is super hard to use any of these platforms. Well, I was only using Constant Contact and I think they’re one of the oldest ones. Um, and since then, lots of better ones have come along. Um, so anyways, I was in a business group, actually you interviewed Ellen.
[00:11:14] April: my old business coach, I was in her business group and she had us do a like guest coach call with the founders of Flow Desk in 2019 when they just launched it. So we were like one of their beta tester groups. And so when they showed us the platform, I’m like, oh. This could work. This actually looks like it’s intuitive, it’s beautiful.
[00:11:39] April: It’s very, um, clean and elegant and simple. Um, it, there’s no coding involved, which I know how to do now, but you don’t wanna have to do that every time you go in and wanna send an email. Yeah. Um, so I, I started doing it for myself and I quickly offered it to a few of my top clients. Like, Hey, I just started doing Flow Desk.
[00:12:02] April: They were in my business group with me. So they’re like, we wanna use it. We don’t really know how. I’m like, I figured it out. Let me lemme try it for you. And so I just started offering it that way. And then, um, Donna Miller’s book talks a lot about email marketing, so I’m like, these are the services. This is what I can do, I can do this. Well, it goes really well with design and, um, and websites and growing and all that stuff. So yeah, that’s, that’s where that kind
[00:12:26] Josh: of started. I love that it’s how ironic that you intentionally didn’t want to do it because you had a sour experience with it previously and then now it’s one of your driving like it’s, it’s really a differentiator for you compared to a lot of other web designers, which you’re such a great example, April of. Having a service that is a bit specialized, but in the umbrella of web design. Like you are a web designer, but you have specialty in maintenance and email marketing.
[00:12:54] Josh: Whereas like, I don’t know if you talk about SEO, a level back with clients, but it’s not something that you project out there. Like you, you’re not an SEO person. Um, at least that’s not where to, it looks like on the website, but that’s fine. Like you don’t have to be, and you don’t have to be a digital marketer.
[00:13:09] Josh: You don’t need to run everyone’s social media if you don’t want to. If you like email marketing and you know it, and you’re getting results, then by golly, feature that in that third grow category because that really is. I think one thing I’ve learned over the past couple years in particular teaching and coaching a lot of web designers is you can do whatever you want in that third category, have the first two be build websites and then do hosting and maintenance.
[00:13:35] Josh: And there’s all the different types of models you can do v i p days and day rates in that where you can do subscription like our friend Steve Strm shares. Um, or you could do my model with the one-off websites and just do hosting and maintenance. But that third categor. That’s your time to shine. That’s what you can like really customize.
[00:13:50] Josh: So I love that you’re doing email marketing and I, I do think it’s a good time for it too, because there’s, I don’t know, have you seen there to be this resurgence of email and the importance of email nowadays?
[00:14:01] April: Yes, absolutely. I really thought it was dying. I think that’s another reason why I didn’t wanna offer it as a service, because when I worked for the college, they would send out these extremely long emails and I’m like, only people who are reading this are retirees, which is probably their I ideal client because they wanted people to, uh, donate to the college.
[00:14:21] April: Ah, but, um, the, you know, it, it was really just, um, not practical, I felt, and not a, a good, you know, I, at the college we were, I, our ideal client was students. And so I’m like, they’re not reading these emails. This is not important. But then all of a sudden, I don’t know what happened, but it has, it’s just been.
[00:14:44] April: Like everyone email does email marketing. We get these weekly emails, these short bits, we’ll get longer like newsletter type emails that, you know, I even read like, I, I enjoy those now cuz they’re, they’re done in a very engaging and authentic way I think. Mm-hmm. And not so much of professional pR writing, um, you know, you learn about the business owner, you learn about the person behind the brand, and I think that’s, that’s hugely important in making it successful and making it different than what it was in its early days.
[00:15:16] Josh: So I think at some point here in this conversation, I might, uh, turn the tables on you and have you coached me on some email stuff because I have this nagging like feeling and this nagging pool to do a weekly newsletter. Finally, I mean, I send emails weekly about the podcast and anything going on, but I don’t have a specific like newsletter or like weekly dose of Josh.
[00:15:39] Josh: I don’t know, I have no idea what to call it, but my thought was to do something like that that is very raw, real curtain back transparent, short, sweet, like something that would just be maybe lessons that I learned that week or something I’m thinking about, that’s kind of what I’m thinking about for my business that I think would be a good.
[00:15:58] Josh: Next phase. And quite frankly, we both have little kids. I don’t always wanna be on video, and it’s hard sometimes to do a bunch of videos. So the thought of like, once the littles are down and I could get my lap, laptop, laptop out, and just write for 10 minutes, sounds awesome. Like, I, I really, I think I’m think I’m gonna like that.
[00:16:14] Josh: So, um, what would you suggest, like, I don’t know, let’s just dive into that now. What do you think about that idea and is that something you’d recommend for clients and for web designers?
[00:16:23] April: Absolutely. So I think there’s a little testing that goes into it because I have done weekly emails before and my audience just does not respond as well to it. They don’t open it as much. And so I, I don’t, for me, I have not found it working. And also for time’s sake, you know, uh, but I know a lot of people that weekly is what works best because you don’t have to do a huge long newsletter once a month.
[00:16:48] April: but what I recommend, and actually I’ve just created a, a freebie. Uh, with a template on how to do this, but so you essentially, um, you have four topics each month and you can do them as like a monthly newsletter or you can do them as a weekly email and do one a week. And you can even take those and do those as social media posts. Um, but I always recommend something personal to connect with your audience, some sort of tip advice or service.
[00:17:18] April: Some sort of like little quick win, maybe something you’ve learned this week that you wanna pass on, a testimonial, a case study, and then a resource, like a book. You just. Um, read or podcast you found. Um, and it makes it really valuable. It, um, it really connects with people well. So, um, I, I’ve, I have found that to work really well and it can be used however you want.
[00:17:43] April: I’ve, I’ve seen people even do all four of these in one email every week, and then that’s their four social media post. And then they’ve got their content for the month, cuz they, they create all these every week. You know, it works really well. So, love.
[00:17:57] Josh: Sorry, go ahead. Oh, I was just gonna say, I love that idea of repurposing that, those categories of content, it reminds me of what I learned from Amy Porterfield and her, uh, list Builder Society course, which is to have like those different types of content, personal fa like quick win education, um, and then yes, success stories.
[00:18:15] Josh: And then resources. And then, uh, her recommendation is to add some sort of sales generally, uh, if you’re gonna do a promotion or something like that. Uh, occasionally to sprinkle it in. My question with Rebecca is like, quarterly. Yeah. Yeah. And now, devil’s advocate, if I’m gonna repurpose this, this on social media, then why would somebody give me their email if they’re con, if they could just find it on social media.
[00:18:35] April: social media is way too crowded. They’re not seeing every one of your posts. That’s, and that, that’s, I mean, it’s, the great thing about social media is that you can get on there and see all sorts of different content every week, but people are generally not seeing your stuff every week. Um, with email, they are more likely to catch all of the great content that you have.
[00:18:57] April: And so you just, I mean, yeah, with the algorithm, with social media now you just, unless you are doing it as an ad, you just can’t guarantee that people are gonna see everything that you
[00:19:06] Josh: post. Oh, that’s such a relief to hear. Uh, because I kind of wonder, I mean, I ask that tongue in cheek because I, I figure that’s where this would, would get to.
[00:19:15] Josh: But I also, in all honesty, it is like, it’s one reason I haven’t done that yet, cuz it’s. Well, all my content’s already out there, but I think the idea of centralizing it and I, I almost like the idea of a weekly recap, quite frankly, and mm-hmm. I don’t know, like you’ve been, you, you’ve been a listener of the show.
[00:19:32] Josh: You’ve been a student for many years now, April. Like, would you find that valuable if at over the weekend or something? If I sent an email just highlighting some of the things that I dished out this week and then I learned, like, would that be valuable for you as Yeah, a representative?
[00:19:47] April: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I, I, the ones with, uh, web Design Pro, I bet you that are, I don’t know if they’re automatically sent out or if you gather them, but like the top post of the week, I always read those because I don’t always have time to actually hop in, but then I can see what’s been happening.
[00:20:02] April: Like, do I, should I make the time to happen right now so I can respond to these or, you know, see what’s going on? So yeah, I, I absolutely think so. And then also something important to remember is, you know, we always want our emails to be opened, of course, but even if they’re not, your email is like a teeny tiny billboard and someone’s inbox every single time you send that.
[00:20:23] April: And so it’s just keeping you top of mind for your perspective. Clients or your clients or whoever are reading your emails. So ev even if they’re not opening all your emails, you are getting that exposure.
[00:20:36] Josh: Okay. What we’re doing is literally a live case study on how I’m gonna craft my weekly emails here when I launch ’em. So I love the idea of the four categories for sure. That could be spliced in there, maybe not every week, but occasionally, like, you know, tweaking those. I also like the idea of like maybe a, something personal, transparent, um, basically a personal note that would be short, snappy, quick to the point, those other categories.
[00:21:00] Josh: And then kind of like a recap of content that week, particularly for folks like myself or anyone who does a lot of content. I had to learn years ago that not everyone is gonna see all of my content. And just like you said, April, if it’s on social media that people are connected, they’re definitely not gonna see everything.
[00:21:17] Josh: So I might release an episode like this week we’re talking on the week that I released episode, my episode with Mike Malowitz. And in my mind I’m thinking everyone probably knows that I did that, but maybe not. Like not everyone saw that on social media. So I love the idea of a personal, a recap in those four categories somehow to, to put that together.
[00:21:36] Josh: So that’s kind of my challenge. I’m literally writing out to myself right now, uh, to help me kind of formulate this. Cause I do feel like it’s kind of a missing piece in my business that I feel really led to do. And I say that to say, I hope this is helpful for everyone because I think even web designers, maybe even if it’s once a month, a monthly newsletter type email that goes out to your clients with some tips and tricks that you learned or what’s working well for a, a client of yours.
[00:22:00] Josh: Or if the industry changes and there’s a big new thing, or clients start hearing about AI and they’re freaking out, and you can be like, Hey, here’s my view on ai. Like, is that, is that something you’d probably recommend for web designers, specif?
[00:22:11] April: Oh yeah, absolutely. I think it’s, it’s just so important to stay top of mind with your clients. And you’ve talked a lot about this lately, Josh, that you know, of course we want new clients, but we need to serve the people we have right now. And so by serving those people, then they can come to you and say, Hey, I saw what you wrote about this, actually, I’ve been really thinking maybe we should add this to my website, or maybe we should go ahead and do a redesign, or, you know, something along those lines. So, um, those are the easiest people to sell to. And it’s, it’s very true because they, you, they already know I can trust you.
[00:22:41] Josh: So, yeah. And there, yeah, there’s already a relationship there. I email is, is what, like solidifies that relationship. And I’m kind of curious, I guess it might be a little bit different for new subscribers versus.
[00:22:57] Josh: Current clients, right? Like, would that be two different strategies? For example, let’s say you get a client, they pay you, they’re on your mar your, your monthly care plan, the emails that you send them may be different than somebody who signs up for a lead generator, I would imagine. So how would we work how would we cater our email marketing efforts to both of those? Like basically a lead versus an actual current client.
[00:23:21] April: So that’s where the sales sequence comes in handy. Because you’ve already set up and you already, it’s kind of like a welcome sequence. Welcome to my email newsletter list, and here are the things that I can help you with and here’s why. And you know, really warming them up. And then once they’ve gone through that process, then they’re added to your weekly newsletter.
[00:23:43] April: And then I’ll still send a separate email to my clients, um, once a month for, uh, their maintenance plan. Right. And I try to include like, you know, the information from, I, I’ve captured from their Google Analytics and hey, I’ve noticed this and that, and maybe make a recommendation if I see one. Um, so I still have that separate email for them. But then yeah, you kind of send that lead through. That initial sequence Gotcha.
[00:24:11] Josh: Before they go to your newsletter. That makes total sense to have a sales sequence versus, versus more of a, what, what would the other be? Be called? Like a nurture sequence or something.
[00:24:20] Josh: Or, yeah, I never remember to call it that.
[00:24:23] April: I don’t know why, but yes, it is a nurture sequence.
[00:24:25] Josh: Yeah. I’m trying to, yeah. It’s almost like a top of mind. See, or maybe even if it’s not automated, but they just get on your list for like your weekly dose or whatever. Monthly emails, whatever they are. Yeah. Uh, that’s a good distinction. Have
[00:24:38] April: people with a bigger strategy do a nurture, a full on nurture sequence where they, you know, once they do the sales sequence, then they move into a nurture sequence and they walk them through like maybe a list of tutorials, send out once a week a tutorial that. Very process driven, like, okay, step one, watch this tutorial next week, I’ll send you in the next one.
[00:25:00] April: And they have 52 weeks of, you know? Ooh. Yeah. But I mean, it’s kind of, for your new people, it’s done and you have a very processed way of doing it. I don’t like that because you’re still having to come up with new content and it’s, I don. It’s, it’s a bigger strategy. It’s a little more in depth and it just depends on the type, how much content you have to work with.
[00:25:23] Josh: Yeah. 52 weeks too. That sounds like a nightmare to keep track of and automate, like, oh yeah. If you go in and then you have to, if you wanna change something in all the emails, I don’t know what the global options look like with Flow Desk or anything else, but that, that sounds like, yeah. Woo. That’s a lot.
[00:25:40] Josh: But I think that idea of having a, whether it’s a challenge or whether it’s a sequence or automation or a journey, I still use MailChimp just because I am such a, if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it kind of guy. And I have so many Zaps going in there, I’m like, I am not changing that unless I absolutely feel led to.
[00:25:57] Josh: Um, but I said to say like in MailChimp there’s journeys, so, oh, it’s very similar to, uh, I think sequences, whatever you wanna call it. I wore flows and floes all flows. Now I, I wanna at some point here I would love to talk about when and how you offer email marketing for clients. But a quick question before we get to that April, how much is too much?
[00:26:19] Josh: Like, I would think the worst thing you’d wanna do is overwhelm people. We’ve all signed up for somebody’s email list and it’s like 15 emails in like three days I’m gone. That is tell me too, not what I’m interested in. So particularly if it’s a case of a lead signing up for a legion and they become a client and if you have like a notification that they get or, or a weekly digest or a monthly digest, my fear would be having too much hit their inbox at the same time. What are your thoughts on that?
[00:26:46] April: So, yeah, I agree. And I don’t recommend doing multiple emails per week like that. You could probably get a by by with two. I think the biggest thing though, is setting expectations. And I have seen people do this and I love it when they do this, Hey, I’m gonna pop in you, welcome to my email list.
[00:27:05] April: I’m gonna pop in the next five days and just kind of give you some information after that. I swear I’m gonna leave you alone. Like, and they’ll make it like a little funny. But you know, just setting those expectations that I’m popping in. For the next five days, and then you’ll hear from me once a month.
[00:27:22] April: Um, ah, that’s good. So that they know what to expect because Yeah, I’ve gotten those emails and I’m just like, every day, multiple times a day and I’m like, no, I don’t wanna hear from you. Old Navy. Not this much.
[00:27:34] Josh: Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think I bought some Madewell jeans and uh, their email marketing was relentless and I was like, I just can’t, I can’t do it. I like the jeans, but I am just, if I need to get some more, I’ll go buy some. But like, I do not need to get this much. I mean, it was like twice a day I think at one point it was crazy. So yeah, there is, it’s like in line, right? With being top of mind and just being like overly in their.
[00:28:03] April: Yeah, and I think that’s where you, you gotta watch your, your analytics and your, uh, email marketing platform and if you’re getting a ton of unsubscribes, pull back a little bit. But yeah, if, uh, if, if, if things are going well, your open rate rate is good, you probably have hit a good rhythm. So I, I definitely recommend testing and just keeping on top of your analytics and making sure you’re, you’re seeing what’s working and what’s not.
[00:28:28] Josh: Gotcha. So let’s talk about selling email marketing as a service. So you kind of already hit your backstory, which was perfect, like we didn’t need to dive too far into that. Id love to maybe on a, at a separate episode, just because your journey has been so cool to see evolve to where you’re at now building close to a six figure business.
[00:28:45] Josh: Uh, so you have like, you have really refined your processes for building websites. I’ve seen you really take your maintenance and care plan and hosting to another level. But with email marketing, a lot of my question is, cuz I never did this. My question would be like, when do you sell this? In that process?
[00:29:03] Josh: Do you, do you mention it early on and just let them know it’s an option as an upsell eventually. Is it a part of, because email marketing could be a part of the build, I would imagine. If you have lead generators that you specifically want to have in the site, you may wanna do that from the ground up. So yeah. I guess a quick question would be when, when do you sell email?
[00:29:22] April: Yes. So I have, um, it, it depends on the service I include on most of my websites. I, you know, obviously we have a conversation to see if they’re interested in that, and some people are and some people aren’t. But the ones that are, I include the setup as part of the website build.
[00:29:39] April: Um, and that is just a great way to lead into more because once they have it set up, then they wanna use it. And if they are, don’t feel like they can, some, some can, and I’ve got them set up and they’re doing their own thing, but some just want me to do it for them and I’ve already got ’em set up. And so it’s a great upsell down the road.
[00:29:59] April: And what I have done recently is, um, when I am talking to them in the initial discovery, call it, or anytime during the process, if they mention like, Hey, down the road I might wanna do email marketing, or I might wanna do seo, I make a note. And my system, I use Asana. And so like my last two check marks are.
[00:30:21] April: Bring back up these two things they, they ask for. And so I’ll send a wrapping up email at the end of the project and be like, also you had had mentioned that you wanted these other services. Would you like to go ahead and look into these or do you wanna wait? And we can look at those in three months and whichever one they decide if they wanna go ahead.
[00:30:40] April: Obviously I send them the information, but if they wanna wait, I will set myself a note and in three months I will go back and say, Hey, I remember you got, you were interested in doing this and, you know, upsell then. So I, I have to set myself a lot of timers and notes, but it gets done so
[00:30:58] Josh: well. Anne, if you’re doing, if you’re doing like a monthly recap with clients or a monthly newsletter, what a perfect time to have that in there. Like, by the way, if you’re not utilizing our email marketing services, here are some results clients are getting. We could do this for you. Shocking tip for everybody. You can use email marketing even to do it once a month to sell services to your current clients.
[00:31:19] April: Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I, I don’t recommend only selling, I, I feel like you should also provide value to your clients. Sure. But if you’re doing both, absolutely. I always recommend selling, like have a call to action in every single email. Um, and so you can, you know, you can give them that value and want to take this next step in your, whatever service you’re offering. Great. You have that option there, but also give value so that they keep coming back to open it. If you’re just selling, people get burn out on that. So offer both.
[00:31:54] Josh: Yes, yes. The case of the Madewell story, it was like nonstop selling. Uh, it was like, good guy, which I think it’s probably common with clothing stores and stuff. Yeah. I mean, my gosh, the unsubscribe and, and rates for that for clothing must be just astronomical.
[00:32:07] Josh: But they get so many new people, it’s like they just churn and burn ’em. Yeah. So you don’t wanna be a churn and burn email marketer. Um, yes. I’m kind of curious. April, which by the way, the connection’s kind of lagging on me a little bit. I don’t know if it’s that Kentucky wifi.
[00:32:20] April: Uh oh yeah. I’m on a cattle farm, so, you know, uh, lemme, lemme see. I’m just checking. I think we’re good.
[00:32:28] Josh: It’s back now. I just, I, I missed a couple things you said there, so I just didn’t wanna miss anything. Um, we should be good though. We use Riverside, so it, luckily, it, it records locally on your end and it all syncs up, so. Okay. We should be fine, but I just wanted to make sure I didn’t miss anything there.
[00:32:41] Josh: But one thing I was curious about is how many clients are coming to you? I don’t know if you have an exact percentage or just a guesstimate, but how many clients have some sort of email marketing in place and an email list versus have no email marketing at all?
[00:32:56] April: I would say about half of my clients at least have some sort of email marketing set up. Um, because I just push it on every project and like, they literally will need to tell me, no, I don’t wanna do that. And they’ll be like, okay, fine. Gotcha. But if they, I, I mean, I just kind of include it in my pro process because it’s, I just find it that important because you should at least be capturing those people that visit your site.
[00:33:20] April: Yes. My, my big tagline on my site is turning visitors into customers. And you can’t capture the visitors e every time. They’re not just gonna come on your site and immediately request a quote every single person. No, you gotta capture those people. So,
[00:33:33] Josh: yes, such, such a great little li word of wisdom there. And quite frankly, the way you have your services set up, I feel like you’re already really a shining example of your vibe attracts your tribe, particularly when it comes to what somebody wants to do with their website. Because you have email marketing, uh, as your, one of your main services. So when somebody works with you, they’re not gonna be sidelined or blindsided by the fact that, oh, April’s gonna talk about email marketing cuz it’s one of your services.
[00:34:00] Josh: So I’d imagine just by having email marketing front and center, you’re getting people who have an interest in it or at least are open to exploring it. I don’t know, that was intentional or, you know, it just, uh, it just became such a good results based service for you that you made it pri a priority. But that’s definitely how I view it.
[00:34:19] April: Yeah. Yeah, it, well, it definitely, I, I feel like elevates my client’s, uh, site and results because they have, you know, the ability to capture those, you know, potential clients Yeah. When they come to the site. So I
[00:34:32] Josh: also, I think one really important thing that you do, if anyone else is considering offering email marketing, is to have the tiered approach.
[00:34:40] Josh: So if everyone goes to April ray creative.com, you can check out April services, and you talked about this before April. You have like these, these few different tiers basically. So there’s the email marketing setup weekly or monthly, and then email sequences, because I would imagine just like web design, it might depend on the client.
[00:34:59] Josh: As far as how needy they are, how savvy they are, like I don’t know. I mean I could almost see eventually you just do email marketing. Um, although it’s nice to be able to control the website end of things cuz it does all work together. But I say that to say like, this could get really complicated real quick. Right. Have you learned to kind of hone in your offers and constrain what you do and how you help As far as email.
[00:35:22] April: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I’ll help people with a, a lot of things that they want. I generally don’t do much outside of Flow Desk because I know Flow Desk so well. I, I don’t offer that. Like, now, if I have a client who’s like, I’m struggling with MailChimp, I’ll be like, let me see if I can dive in and fix it as part of like a maintenance kind of thing.
[00:35:41] April: Okay. But I don’t just offer mail chip services because, I don’t use MailChip very much. Like I’ve been in there a few times for clients and that’s it, you know, so yeah, I, I definitely try to keep it refined. I think you talked about that in something that I watched of yours, that you, you’ve gotta keep your services and like, you know, that’s why I only use Divvy, um, Mo for 90% of my websites, I only use Divvy to design with because I know it so well.
[00:36:05] April: Yeah. And it keeps my process flowing and it doesn’t, you know, hold me down, like hold me back or anything.
[00:36:10] Josh: So that’s such a great lesson. It’s so important. The shiny object syndrome is what all web designers face. Like, there’s so many tools, so many options. Nowadays it seems like it’s worse than ever.
[00:36:20] Josh: Like I, I’m sure you’ve seen it just like I have since we’re both in the divvy community. There’s so many divvy people who are using other themes now and trying other stuff, and that can be okay. But if you have eight different tools that you use, that’s eight different things to keep up with. And to learn and to see how they update and adjust.
[00:36:38] Josh: And it’s just, It’s incredibly unprofitable in the long run to do that. If you give yourself constraints and have a limited tool set, you can learn it really good and you can excel with your tools. I, I learned that as a drummer. Like I only had a few, you know, I had like my symbols and my certain drums and I got really proficient and good with what I had right in front of me.
[00:36:59] Josh: Whereas, you know, sticking in the musician realm, if you have a guitar with a 3 million effects, it can be overwhelming to decide what to choose. So it’s kind of the same deal with websites? Yeah. Or, or are your tool all your tools? Email marketing? Yeah. Or your
[00:37:13] April: services cuz you know, services. I mean, I used to offer social media. And I took like a year break from social media stuff because I had my child and you know, we, I was not in it. And then I came back and everything had changed and I’m like, I don’t know how to do social media anymore. Like I don’t know how to ran.
[00:37:30] Josh: I dunno. Yeah, I feel like when I really started looking at your brand, that was the case. I feel like I remember you initially as more social media. And then the tables turn to email marketing. How, actually, I’m kind of curious, so when did you get into web design? April? Was that 2019 or 18?
[00:37:48] April: Um, well, I’ve been doing some sort of web design since 2010, I think. Oh, okay. Um, when I worked for the college, yeah, they, they gave me a big project to redesign por a portion of the website. And so that was with a, um, a program called Sitefinity. I’ve never heard anyone that knows what that is. I’m tired. I heard that. It was terrible.
[00:38:13] April: Um, and so, and then I, uh, I, I worked for another organization, a nonprofit that used WordPress, and I’m like, Ooh, I like WordPress. This is better. Um, and then, um, when my daughter was born, I started my own business when she was a year old because I didn’t wanna work full-time out of the home, away from her.
[00:38:31] April: I wanted to work when she napped or went to preschool or something and, and kind of have that flexibility. So I started my web design business, um, yeah, 2018.
[00:38:41] Josh: Okay. Yeah, that’s what I was thinking. I was wondering like, you know, when that actually became an actual business that you, that you did working from home. How long did it take to make email marketing and Ming service then?
[00:38:52] April: It was probably another year cuz it, I, I learned about Flow Desk, I think it was like April of 2019. Um, and so I started playing around with it for myself and then I started offering it as, um, for my clients and I really started liking it and I can’t remember when I made it.
[00:39:09] April: One of my main things, cuz I think for a while I had like marketing services very generic. Um, I had SEO on there for a while, even though I’m not like fully, like, I like seo. I think SEO is wonderful, but I just don’t feel like I offer enough to make that one of my main
[00:39:25] Josh: services. Yeah. Do you link SEO in with your builds just as like foundational seo? Is that how you mentioned that
[00:39:32] April: to clients? Yeah. Yeah. I, I always have basic SEO included and then I’ll do, um, per your course SEO O boost, um, for like, clients are like asking about SEO and want a little extra. And then, um, side
[00:39:46] Josh: note, do you find that clients understand and love the SEO O Boost term? Yes.
[00:39:51] Josh: And well, and that was my, that’s really why, that’s literally why I was like, I’m not an SEO guy, but everyone liked the idea of Boost, like my conversion rates on SEO Boost for 500 or a thousand dollars for, for each different tier was crazy. Cuz we were like, yeah, I could use an SEO boost.
[00:40:07] April: Yeah. Cuz it’s not, it’s not like the, you know, huge strategies that like Michelle offers, but it, it’s, you know, it’s just a boost. It’s just, you know, let’s put our best foot forward and that’s how I explain it to my clients. A lot of times we’re just putting our best foot forward, um, with what we’ve got and if we wanna do more, we can, but if not, a boost is great. I
[00:40:28] Josh: love that. Do you, uh, do you, do you carry that same like principle and methodology to your email marketing with the idea. I guess you can’t really do a boost with email marketing unless you just did a time, like, let’s try three months of it.
[00:40:43] Josh: Uh, I, cause I guess one question I had is, how the heck do you price email marketing? I’m sure everyone’s really curious about that. Do you do it hourly? Do you do it per tier that you have set up? Like how, how have you learned to price email marketing?
[00:40:54] April: Oh my gosh. It’s been really hard because I have not found a whole lot of people, like, you know, you provided a proven path for web design. There is not much out there for a proven path for email marketing. For offering it as a service. Um, you know, I’ve done, uh, list builders and, uh, with Emmy Porterfield and, uh, email marketing magic with, um, pat Flynn.
[00:41:13] April: Oh yeah. But I have not found anyone that’s like, here’s how to offer this as a service. So maybe, maybe down the line I’ll do that. But, um, you know, Sams like a great
[00:41:23] Josh: course from April.
[00:41:26] April: Yeah. That will be my 2024 course. Um, no. Um, but for pricing, I. You know, I kind of looked at it hourly, how much time it takes, and then I kind of try to factor in like, results.
[00:41:41] April: What kind of results is this going to provide? So my setup fee obviously is one of the lowest, because it does not, it, it gets results as in it adds people to your list. But then sales sequence and the, um, nurture sequence that is more results driven because the, that’s actually the PE con converting the people on your list to customers, that the goal of that is, is to convert those people.
[00:42:06] April: So those are a little higher. Um, On a, well, the monthly one is not higher, but over a year it is because, you know, if you’re paying me monthly to send out an email for you. Sure. And then I’ll include that a lot of times with my maintenance plan. So you, if you’re on my v i p maintenance plan, we can do website stuff and we can do, um, email marketing.
[00:42:31] Josh: Basis. Yeah. And then how, like practically, when you price these out, are you comfortable with sharing like typical price points? Like do you, do you judge it by the time that you have involved with it or is it value-based? Like, I’m just terribly curious how the heck you price email marketing.
[00:42:47] April: Um, a lot of times I’ll do it by email, so, um, like generally like 125 per email for me. But then if I bring in my copywriter, she charges, um, Oh gosh, I’m trying to think how much she charges. In the past we’ve done about 1500 for a sales sequence and then like the setup fee, depending on if they get a lead magnet or not, it can be about 6 25 is the starting point for that.
[00:43:17] April: And then it can go up from there depending on how much work we’re doing on the lead magnet, if we’re designing it, if we’re, you know, helping them with the content and the strategy and all that stuff. So that one kind of starts around 6 25 and then for a monthly newsletter, that one is usually, it’s usually included in my maintenance plan. So I haven’t priced, I’m trying to think what I would price, I can’t remember what I would price
[00:43:40] Josh: if it was someone else. I imagine if you have all that set up, the monthly newsletter would probably be the easiest aspect of that.
[00:43:47] April: Yeah, yeah. Cuz we set up a template and then we just reuse that every month. But we um, you know, we do the content. Uh, a lot of times we’ll do blog posts with that and that’s part of their, Email. Oh, okay. Strategy, so is to do, we’ll help them with their blog post. We’ll bring Michelle in and we do like a blog post, uh, an SEO blog post. And my copywriter will write it and then I will post it and do, uh, a newsletter.
[00:44:13] Josh: So. Well, I’m so glad. Thank you for sharing that, by the way. Cause I was curious on how, how that would all work out. I imagine just like all pricing, it could vary drastically with variables and skillset and results. And I think the thing with email marketing is, it’s like with a sales sequence.
[00:44:28] Josh: People are going to invest in something that is specifically to get sales. So, and they can measure that if you charge 1500 bucks for a sales sequence and they average, like, let’s say their average sale is 500 bucks, well, it only takes three people to convert from that email to make that up. And then it’s all profit from there.
[00:44:45] Josh: So that’s, I think it’s an easier way to sell email marketing. I almost wonder if email marketing is a little easier to sell than websites in general if people don’t understand it, that it’s a sales tool. Yeah. That’s interesting. You just mentioned the blog post and the email working together.
[00:44:59] Josh: I’m so glad you mentioned that. Cause I meant to ask that earlier. So would the idea that I had of like a, a weekly dose of Josh, and it sounds douchey, I don’t know what to call it right now, my question would be, should I make that a blog post or should I just have that via email? But then, you know, me, April, I hate, I hate, I hate creating something that is not gonna be on my website for years to come.
[00:45:23] Josh: Like the idea of creating content that’s just gonna vanish like stories. And reels. I, I just can’t stand it. So my thought would be to do a weekly thing that would be an email and a blog post. But then of course now I’m starting to make it complex. So where do you draw the line between an email just being an email versus it being like a blog post or you start an email that leads to a blog post?
[00:45:45] April: So, I have stopped blogging unless it is with SEO in mind because for a while there I was just, You know, writing up these short little posts and Google dinged me for it.
[00:45:59] Josh: Oh, is that cuz it’s not related or just
[00:46:02] April: It was, you know, it wasn’t related. It wasn’t long enough. It wasn’t targeted enough. And so then Google just started saying, oh, well this website is irrelevant.
[00:46:11] April: And so, uh, thank goodness for Michelle. I keep bringing up Michelle. She has been a lifesaver for me. Um, and Josh, you recommended or. Pardon of me or however you say.
[00:46:21] Josh: Yeah. Forget how, yeah. Yeah. I mean, she’s been web designer pro, so I, she talks about you as well. Everyone doesn’t know Michelle yet. She’s been on the podcast multiple times.
[00:46:28] Josh: She is our SEO o guru. She’s the resident, s e o expert in, uh, web designer pro and our copywriter specialist now too. Like her, I don’t know if you’ve used her for copywriting punch up or tune-ups, but she’s like really, really savvy with that as well. She’s, she’s
[00:46:43] April: great. Yeah. I have, she, she undersells herself. She’s just always like, oh, I don’t know if I’m good enough at this. I’m like, Michelle, you were fantastic. Like, absolutely fantastic. Um, but anyways, so yeah, she, um, so I’ve totally lost where I was. Uh,
[00:46:59] Josh: you made a great point though about not using it as a blog post. Yes. Unless it’s meant for seo. Yes.
[00:47:06] April: So I just, I am very intentional about my blog post. I don’t do them very often. Like I’m, I’m doing ’em like quarterly. Honestly, but I do them really well. I bring in my copywriter and she writes them, uh, for me and she know, she, I bring in Michelle and do her content briefs. Like we do a very intentional job on my blog post for my clients. We do that too.
[00:47:28] April: We have a, we we’ll do them monthly though, for them.
[00:47:31] Josh: Yeah. Cause is it, is that one of your blog posts high up for Flow Desk
[00:47:36] April: too? Actually it’s my email marketing page. It’s okay. Um, last I checked the number one result for flow desk specialist.
[00:47:42] Josh: Wow. Hold on. Live test. Let’s make sure we’re still there.
[00:47:47] Josh: Flow desk specialist. Let’s see. Flow, flow desk specialist. Did I get that right? It’s,
[00:47:55] April: no. No. W. It’s just Oh, nw. Yeah.
[00:47:59] Josh: A lot of people w that changes a lot there. Yeah. First organic result. How about that Ray? Creative email marketing flow desk service? No. W wow. That’s awesome. April. That’s freaking sweet.
[00:48:13] April: Yeah, Michelle, uh, clued me into it. Cause I was on page like two by myself and then she came in and, um, helped me tweak it and get it where it needed to be. So
[00:48:24] Josh: how have you found that to drive leads just by that? Yes. That appeal? Yes. So that’s another example of like having a, so you cr, so essentially you whittle down your services from all the stuff that you were doing earlier. The video, it’s also media. Everything honed in on email marketing. Did a simple version of that got results for clients.
[00:48:45] Josh: You’ve expanded on that and you niche down with a tool, and then now you’re using SEO to bring people into that with a proven system. I’m just, I’m, I’m basically just shedding light on the entire process that you did to offer email marketing and now you’re excelling with it, which is incredible. Like what an awesome case study this is on how to do this. Thank
[00:49:04] April: you. Yeah, it’s, it’s been, uh, it’s been exciting cuz you know, it’s hard to rank for web designer Kentucky or anything like that, but, um,
[00:49:13] Josh: actually, oh no. I feel like you might be able to crush that one.
[00:49:17] April: There’s a lot. Well, Louisville’s a big city, so there’s a lot of web designers
[00:49:21] Josh: there, so Yeah. And with the SEO people that come to you, do you find that they need web design services? Does that work hand in hand or are they just primarily hiring you for email stuff?
[00:49:33] April: Some have just hired me for email work, um, cuz that’s what they were looking for. But then I have had, because the, the problem I’m running into, there’s small problem with it, is I work with WordPress and so, and divvy and so people have come to me with like a Squarespace site and I’m like, I’m not judging that.
[00:49:49] April: Yeah. I know Squarespace people, I’ll refer you out, but I can help you with the email marketing part of it. Um, so, and, and if they’re not ready for a redesign, but you know, if they’re coming to me for email marketing, my hope is down the road they will want, um, a redesign website with WordPress.
[00:50:05] Josh: Yeah. I wonder I face that same problem as, you know, because we’re both WordPress and Divvy folk. But, um, I have such a Midwestern, like Kentucky, Ohio thing to say, like, we’re the Dvy folk. Um, but you know, now, you know, April, I’m teaching a lot of people who use Squarespace or Webflow or something different. And the thing is, is yes, I have divvy specific and WordPress specific tutorials and resources, but I have a lot of other stuff.
[00:50:30] Josh: Most everything else is evergreen and uh, platform agnostic as we call it, and web designer pro like it, you know, and I just, I say that to say I wonder if you could do something similar at some point offer like a general email marketing service that is not necessarily platform specific. That could be I won.
[00:50:50] Josh: That’d be kind of cool. I wonder if that would be something that you could implement at some point. Although there’s nothing wrong with staying niche and really, really capitalizing. Like I could see you at some point, we were talking about this earlier with the course you’re gonna do eventually, which I’m definitely gonna stay on you to do because I think it’s needed.
[00:51:06] Josh: The e selling email marketing for web designers holla. If uh, anyone wants that, just leave us a comment. Leave us a comment, go send April a message. Um, but I say that in all seriousness because I, I feel like you could, the way I would see that as you step further into the web printer world, which I know we’ve talked about in pro together, is you could have like a flow desk, beginner crash course training program, whatever.
[00:51:31] Josh: Then you can have like an advanced one where you’re really getting it into sequences and automations and tagging and stuff like that. And then you could have your like, sell this for web designers service, like sell the, you know, or you could have a general type of email marketing cheat sheet or something like that to get everyone through the door.
[00:51:48] Josh: And like you just said, if you have enough results with using the tools you like and trust, people will go that route. Like I have, I have a ton of people who come to Web Zone Pro using Elementor or Squarespace, and then now they’re suddenly trying divvy out and they’re using the tools that we use. So, It can work both ways.
[00:52:06] Josh: So I don’t know, I just wanted to share some thoughts on that, cuz I feel like that could be a really, really exciting next step for you as you get further into the email marketing side of things. Yeah.
[00:52:16] April: Yeah, actually I, I am working on, um, like, like a basics course for right now. Um, not sure when it’ll actually get done. I was hoping summer, but things keep piling up. I dunno.
[00:52:27] Josh: Yeah. The, the, the perils of having a scaling growing business. Yeah. Good challenges to have, but it just keeps the passion projects on the side. But you are scaling, I think something we’ll talk about in some other separate capacity is that you are scaling to be able to manage this.
[00:52:41] Josh: Actually, that’s an interesting question I was wondering about, like, do you think you could do this if you hadn’t started scaling and hiring out and delegating work? Because if you’re gonna do web design, maintenance care and getting to put your marketing hat on and doing email marketing for clients, that is a lot for one person. So, yeah. How do you manage that? How, how has scaling helped you manage.
[00:53:03] April: Oh my goodness. I could not do this without my copywriter. Kelly Burch. She is fantastic. I’ve known her since the first day of college. Um, we met in journalism one-on-one, but she, uh, she has just really helped me take this to the next level because, you know, I can provide all the design stuff and I can help a little with copy, but that’s not my expertise, nor do I want it to be.
[00:53:26] April: Because it slows me down when I have to write stuff for clients and it’s a whole other, I feel like a whole different creative process. And so I don’t do copy, but bringing her in, it just elevates everything. All of the websites we write and the copy or the content for, um, emails and blog posts that we write is just so much better than what I could do.
[00:53:51] April: And I wouldn’t be able to serve as many clients. I wouldn’t be able to move projects as long as fast. Like it’s just, um, It’s, it’s really helped. And then since then, I have now started bringing on, um, um, Alexis has been helping me a lot with, uh, design work and Jacob and Dan have been helping me with development work.
[00:54:11] April: And so just these things that would normally slow me down and keep me stuck for days trying to figure them out. I can just toss it over to them, get something else done, they throw it back and then we move the project along. So, oh,
[00:54:25] Josh: that’s so awesome. Well, and what you’re shedding light on is why I have crafted Web Designer pro the way it is, as it is what people who are like really good in, in certain aspects. And I, I really don’t mean to sound like salesy with Web Designer pro, but I am very, I’m kind of bullish on it now cuz it’s freaking awesome.
[00:54:42] Josh: Like you are the exact, the exact like shining student of how to utilize web designer pro. You taken the processes, you’ve refined your business. And then you figured out your superpower, and then now you’re filling in the gaps of stuff that you don’t wanna do or need help with.
[00:54:58] Josh: You mentioned Jacob, expert developer, you mentioned, uh, Dan, security expert, guru. Uh, you’ve got Michelle in your corner and you know, I’m happy to guide you where I can, I feel almost like insignificant now with where you’re at. I feel like you’re gonna be coaching me in the next couple years, April, like, so it, I just love I say that to say publicly.
[00:55:16] Josh: I love that you’re utilizing pro like, like I’d hoped somebody would. So that’s off to you. How did you find your superpower, by the way? What is your superpower? April? My
[00:55:27] April: superpower. Um,
[00:55:29] Josh: what’s your main one? You’ve got like six that we talked about in this conversation so far, but what’s your, what, what do you feel like your superpower is with, with, uh, in relation to like your, your service?
[00:55:40] April: Oh gosh. I, you know, I, I, I’m trying to think. Web design. I love web Desi. I love design. I really like, I wanted to be a designer since I was in high school. Um, I was scared of doing art though cause I can’t hand draw. So they make you take art classes when you do graphic design. But I really do love design.
[00:56:00] April: I get into that like flow. With design. But then I also think that, um, and, and you know, this is not true of most people in web designer probe, but I feel like a lot of web developers that I met before, like meeting you and the web divvy community, so many web developers have no personality. And I just felt like, you know, I, I try to keep things really simple with my clients and explain it well and, you know, be personable.
[00:56:29] April: Um, and, and you know, someone that they, you know, feel like they could also be friends with, you know? So I, I just, I think having that, you know, nice friendly southern personality helps, uh, and then just loving design and. Feeling like it’s a, it’s fun.
[00:56:48] Josh: Yeah. I can have fun every day. Oh, that’s great. Yeah. I think there’s something to, uh, have in the easygoing, friendly, Midwestern vibe. Is Kentucky considered the South? I mean, you’re, depends
[00:56:58] April: on who you ask. I feel more south because we’re almost in Tennessee.
[00:57:02] Josh: Yeah. But in the Civil War was Kentucky, north or South?
[00:57:06] April: We were neutral.
[00:57:08] Josh: Oh, okay. I’m sure it was probably split. Yeah. Cause if you get into the Tennessee realm, I’m sure those boys were all about fighting for the South. I mean, like Kentucky, we, I can get to Kentucky in an hour and a half from, like, from Cincinnati. So that’s very northern still feeling.
[00:57:24] April: Yeah. And I mean, I used to live in Owensboro, Kentucky, which is um, a little more in the middle of the state, a little more north. And it feels very different than down here in Mayfield, Kentucky, where it’s we’re a little more self
[00:57:37] Josh: fascinating. Well, I don’t wanna take off us off on too much of a tangent, but now I’m really interested to find out Kentucky’s stance in the Civil War and how many people were split, uh, or did no one fight in Kentucky?
[00:57:50] April: I’m, I’m not actually sure. I’m not the Civil
[00:57:52] Josh: War Represe. Sorry, I didn’t mean to put you on the Civil War spot, but I’m totally, I’m
[00:57:55] April: now I’ll talk wars and all sorts of stuff with you. Um, but yeah, no, I, I think it was like a neutral ground. Like, I think people came here for like assistance and stuff, I
[00:58:05] Josh: think. Okay. I, well, if anyone knows, let us know on the, the, uh, leave a comment on the, the post for this episode. You had no idea. April, you’d be coming on to talk Civil War history for
[00:58:15] April: Kentucky. I wanna be not proud at all. He’d be like, you’re,
[00:58:19] Josh: yeah. Have him message me. I’d love to have a chat with him so we can figure out where Kentucky stood. Uh, well, April, this has been absolutely awesome. I really, really appreciate you sharing some insight on what you’ve done. Like I said, you’re just a, a shining case study of, of building your business your way, refining your services.
[00:58:37] Josh: You have a nice why with being a stay-at-home mom. Being able to work from home. You came from the education world where I remember you shared with me like, you know, I think you were working like eight hour, 80 hours a week at one point with everything you’re doing. And, um, I love, I’ve loved seeing you build a life of freedom and the lifestyle that you love to live.
[00:58:55] Josh: And we’ve even talked vacation spots now since you guys are, uh, headed down to Alabama sometimes where we, uh, tend to vacation at. So like I’ve seen you, uh, carry not only a successful business and growing business, but you’ve carried that in your personal life and being able to manage it with scaling.
[00:59:10] Josh: So all that to say April, I absolutely love what you’re doing. Keep at it. What a blast. Getting to know the email marketing side of things. One final question for you, but before we get to that, you mentioned a free resource you have or is there anywhere you would like folks to go to, to check you out or maybe, uh, something they could grab?
[00:59:27] April: Yeah. Um, you can just head over to my website, april ray creative.com. And, um, I am just putting the finishing touches, so by the time this goes live it will be there a email newsletter, template, and workbook.
[00:59:39] Josh: Oh, I’m picking the heck up outta that as I get mine going. Cause I really, this conversation really solidified a couple things for me personally and for anyone considering a weekly or monthly newsletter.
[00:59:50] Josh: It’s to have those different areas of content and then make sure, you know, stay top of mind but not overdo it. And then also the idea of it not being a blog post was a huge takeaway for me because I didn’t even think about the SEO components with that. Mm-hmm. If I’m sharing something that’s not necessarily web design business related.
[01:00:09] April: Don’t want Google to
[01:00:10] Josh: ding you. Yes, yes, yes. Michelle’s listening to this going, amen. We do not want Google. April last question. If somebody wants to start offering email marketing, but they’re feeling a little overwhelmed with all the things that we covered because you are a little bit more of on the advanced stage, what would you recommend they start with, or what would you recommend when April got started doing email marketing? What, what did you wish you would’ve done the first, you know, maybe six months?
[01:00:39] April: Um, so I would definitely recommend that Marketing Made Simple Book by Donald Miller. It just really gives a framework for how you can do this and, and what should be included. And then just trying to find where your skill sets match into some of those, those offerings, those things that you can do.
[01:00:57] April: Are you great at design? Are you great at copy? Um, and then maybe bring in some other people to help you. Form the team. So, um, yeah, I, I definitely would recommend that Donald Miller book. And then I, I think that a very easy starting point is just like a setup. Help people get set up, help them figure out their lead magnet, help them set up a, an account on, you know, whether it’s Floes or Convert Kit or MailChimp or whatever.
[01:01:24] April: Help them get set up with that, and then you just kind of go from there.
[01:01:28] Josh: Ah, that’s beautiful. And until your course comes out, which I’ll recommend once it does, I recommend Amy Porterfield’s List, biller Society. Um, if anyone wants to check that out, you can go through my firstname.lastname@example.org slash lbs. Reason being is not only can you apply what you learned to your business, but you can literally use that as a template for your clients.
[01:01:47] Josh: So like when your client asks you, I don’t know what to blog about or send emails about, you can just take what you learn there or in this episode and just share it to them. Um, so I said to say with all courses, just remember that knowledge is not just yours. It’s now you can use it for your clients. So, um, yeah, you’ve really taken that approach.
[01:02:05] Josh: By the way, April, I have to say publicly, I was gonna tell you this off, uh, when we stopped recording, but you have come a long way on video. Um, I remember just a few years ago you were very, very shy and reserved on video, but you are like, you’re getting like pro status, so hats off to your video game and, uh, just communication as well.
[01:02:25] Josh: Thank
[01:02:25] April: you. Yeah, I got the mic. Uh, one of the mics I think you recommended. The blue. The blue Yeti. Blue Yeti, yep. Got that one. And, uh, great way to go. Uh, I, I literally film a loom. Once a day for my clients. So I’ve gotten more comfortable for sure.
[01:02:40] Josh: That is interesting how that helps, isn’t it? Like literally just looming clients. You get used to talking to a camera, but there’s no pressure. Like you don’t have to be on a podcast or a video show, you just send something to a client and you will get better at communicating and condensing your words and being more thrift and just getting used to looking at a camera, which is awkward.
[01:03:01] Josh: It’s, oh, it’s, it’s not like a natural thing for a human just to stare at a camera until you do it every day. So I’m glad to hear that’s worked out for you.
[01:03:07] April: Yeah, yeah. Thank you.
[01:03:08] Josh: Awesome. Alright, April, well I think the next time you come on is probably when, uh, your course will be launched, which I’m super excited about. Again, I think there’s quite a few different ways you could, you could go with your web printer services, but I definitely see a need for, like you mentioned earlier, offering email marketing as a web designer. Two on that one. I’m sure you’ll wake up at like three in the morning tonight thinking about that, what to call that, and then yeah, we can have a chat about mapping that out.
[01:03:35] April: Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, Josh, thank you so much though. I just wanna say I’m very grateful that I found you when I did because it really, I don’t know, like where I would be without having taken your courses and finding your community and, and you know, just working with you one-on-one. So I’m just very grateful that you’ve come into my life and helped me grow my business.
[01:03:54] Josh: Oh, April. Well thank you for that. That means a lot to me. I, again, it’s the pleasure’s all mine because you do the work, uh, there, there. For people who, who learn. Like it’s one thing to learn and get information, but it really is all about applying it. So to see what you’ve done with your business is incredible.
[01:04:11] Josh: I’m gonna take, I’m gonna take what you just said there and I’m gonna put it on my little happy, my little, uh, happy wall. My smile wall of testimonials cuz you’re, uh, a great example of how to do it. So, One exciting chapter, April, like you’ve got to this point. Now you’re at a whole nother level with your mindset, your business, uh, your specialty.
[01:04:30] Josh: So yeah, this is, this is super exciting. Thank you so much for your time today, April, and for sharing the goods with us.
[01:04:36] April: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me.
[01:04:40] Josh: Boom, there we are friends. That is what is behind the curtain for April’s business on how she offers and sells email marketing to her web design clients.
[01:04:50] Josh: Again, nowadays you’ve got to sell results. You’ve gotta help web designers grow their business. You can’t just build a pretty website. So that third category, like I mentioned, is so important to decide on how you can help clients get results with their website that you design. April was a prime example of how she chose email marketing.
[01:05:09] Josh: So even if you decide not to do email marketing itself for clients, I hope hearing April’s story and how she’s specialized and went niche in this and how she’s implemented it, I hope that gives you some inspiration to do something similar. And definitely for those of you who are interested in email marketing for your web design clients, Be sure to connect with April.
[01:05:29] Josh: Her website is april ray creative.com. Go there to get connected with her and maybe send her a, a message saying you heard her on the podcast. And as we talked about, I think a chorus is in her future on email marketing for web designers. So I’m very excited about that. And the last thing I wanna know before we head off here is I want to encourage you to connect with both April and me inside of Web Designer Pro.
[01:05:51] Josh: She has been a founding member of my membership Web Designer Pro. So when you join that, you get to meet awesome entrepreneurial web designers like April and over 115 other AP uh, web designers as of right now and myself to help you coach, uh, coach you through your services to make sure you have the best offers possible.
[01:06:10] Josh: So join us over in Web Designer Pro. To do that, go to josh hall.co/pro and I’ll see you in there. And again, april ray creative.com to connect with April. Thanks for NC on the next episode.