I think the title says it all in this one but in short, if you don’t like sales but you need clients…you still have to “sell” in some way.

The good news is, you can “sell” web design services without coming across like a sweaty used car salesman with pressuring, icky tactics.

That’s exactly what we’re going to cover in the newest episode of the podcast because my guest Anchen le Roux of https://simplydigitaldesign.co.za (who you also may know as one of the co-hosts of the uber popular Page Builder Summit) also doesn’t like to sell but has built up an amazing freelance web design business.

In this convo, we cover:

  • How to sell without “sleazy selling tactics”
  • How to find and go to your ideal customers
  • How to find clients online (not local to you)
  • Whether a location based domain extension (like .za, .us, .uk, etc) is beneficial or not
  • How web design meetups are a gold mine

And more!

If you hate selling or like me, can do it but prefer to make it as easy and no-brainer as possible for your potential clients, this episode will help!

In this episode:

00:00 – Selling Without Sleazy Tactics
06:53 – Choosing a Local or International URL
10:35 – Building an Online Client Network
18:38 – Build Authority, Get Clients Without Sales
29:50 – Web Design Maintenance Strategies
39:55 – Networking and Finding Clients Through Meetups
46:22 – Marketing With Newsletters
55:46 – Utilizing Network and Building Relationships
1:03:12 – Marketing Strategies for Web Designers

Simply Digital Design

Featured links mentioned:

Episode #295 Full Transcription

Anchen: 1:14
Yeah, I think definitely start starting your like your own groups or starting your own networking things, especially if you are struggling to, if you’re introverted or struggling to join other things or starting to struggling to be visible in other groups, sometimes as hard for people. So yeah, then, just starting your own thing and joining. Joining, paying to join is also a very, very good thing. I know it’s hard when you start out to pay to join a high level thing, but it really really does make a huge difference.

Josh: 1:54
Welcome to the Web Design Business podcast, with your host, josh Hall, helping you build a web design business that gives you freedom and a lifestyle you love. Well, hello friends, great to have you in this episode. By the title, I imagine you’re probably quite excited about this one, because if you are like me and most every other web designer I know, you probably don’t love sales and it’s probably the part of your business that you may not dread, but you’re like oh, sales calls, feel like I’m pressuring somebody to buy. It’s just it’s the unfun part of business for some people. But the reality is, if you want web design clients and if you want to make a living at this, and unless you’re not hiring out a salesperson, you got to sell. But the really good news is nowadays you can sell in so many ways without being that like sweaty used car salesman vibe who’s pressuring people and using kind of icky web design tactics. So that’s exactly what we’re going to cover in this episode. My guest in this episode is Angela LaRue, who is a freelance web designer. Her business is called Simply Digital Design. You also may know her name because she is the co-host of one of the most popular online summits in WordPress called the Page Builder Summit. That’s how we initially got connected and ancient recently joined my community web designer pro. So I’ve I’ve got to know her business a little more. And what’s fascinating about ancient is she is somebody who, as as she admits in this interview, does not like doing sales, but she’s done an incredible job of bringing her ideal clients to her, primarily online, through online groups and also local meetups and some other organizations. But she does not have a harsh sales approach, but she’s done a really good job at growing her business. So how has she done it? That’s exactly what we’re going to cover here. We’re going to get into how to sell without using like sleazy selling tactics. We’re going to talk about how to find and actually go to your ideal clients and also attract them to you. Ancient really dives into how she’s got clients online that are not local to her, and we get into, interestingly enough, location based domain extensions, things like dot us, dot UK, dot ZA, and whether or not you need to do it like that, if it’s beneficial or if it’s not beneficial, and then I think you’ll find out to how meetups, even if they’re industry related, like web design meetups, are actually a goldmine for for finding clients. So all that and more we’re going to dive into here with ancient Leroux of the web or, excuse me, the page builder summit, which I highly recommend go to page builder summitcom for the next one. I think they’re doing one in Q1 of 2024. In her freelance site is simply digital design dot, co, dot, za as of now, but as you’ll hear, she might be changing that soon. So here’s ancient. Let’s talk sales without liking sales. Ancient, welcome to the show. I’m so excited to spend some time with you to chat today. This is our first time really getting the to chat one on one. We’ve known each other for a few years now, with you being the page one of the page builder summit leaders, and you’re a web designer pro my community so excited to have you in there. So thank you for taking some time to chat today.

Anchen: 5:18
Yeah, I’m super excited to be here. I’ve been really looking forward to talking to you. Actually, I can realize, because it’s so different, like communicating via email and things like that. So, yeah, really good to be here.

Josh: 5:31
And I. Anyone who’s listened to this podcast for a while knows that my favorite accent in the world is South African accent. Now, are you from the area or did you migrate there? What’s your? What’s your jettison story on how you landed in South Africa?

Anchen: 5:48
Okay, so I am born in South Africa, so I was. I heard you say you like the South African accent and I was wondering, because in South Africa we’re speaking 11 different languages, so there’s there’s so many different accents, but normally the one that that everyone likes is the, the, not the English. They’re like first language English speaker, just South African. But I’m, my first language is African, so my accent’s a little bit different, a little bit more that she.

Josh: 6:18
I was gonna say you’re European. I would have figured by your accent that you were, yeah, somewhere in Europe and then and then migrated down to South Africa.

Anchen: 6:27
No, so yeah, so, born in South Africa. I’m German family, but, yeah, totally born. They’ve been there at well, not been there in always, but yeah, so and I’ve. Well, I now live in Portugal, so we’ve been here since last year, I so yeah actually moving moving to New Zealand next. So we’ve already got our visas. In November we are moving to New Zealand.

Josh: 6:53
So that might explain why you’re, while your URL for your website is simply digital designcoza. Then is that? Did you do that because you’re going to move there?

Anchen: 7:04
So the Coase is actually the South African domain.

Josh: 7:08
Oh, is it? Oh, I didn’t realize that. Oh, that’s right, it’s New Zealand. Is that in Z?

Anchen: 7:11
Yeah, in Z yeah, okay, okay.

Josh: 7:14
That’s right, got it Got it yeah. It’s so fascinating to me with the different URL extensions which I guess, if anyone can’t get acom, I guess the options areco, ornet, which I don’t do that. Do people usenet anymore?

Anchen: 7:29
I haven’t seen it in a very long time. I haven’t either. I feel like that’s for like a telephone company or some weird corporate thing.

Josh: 7:36
Other than that, it’s like you got to get like theus oruk or yeahnz or in your caseza, I didn’t realizeza was South African.

Anchen: 7:47
Yeah, so I actually don’t have thecom as well, but when I started out it just made sense, more sense to have thecoza because it’s local. You know, having thecom, then you struggle getting work locally and at that stage, like it was, like just what we did was more local, but obviously everything changed 2020.

Josh: 8:10
So Well, this is an interesting case. Yeah, I was just going to say this is kind of an interesting case study right up front, Whether you should get a URL that’s local based or not, because are you primarily, have you primarily worked with clients locally over the past five, 10 years I know you’ve moved, but has that been the case or are you working with people all over the world?

Anchen: 8:32
Yeah, so I did move. I did work locally up until 2020. My niche was like wedding pros, so I worked with photographers and, yeah, dress designers and stuff like that mainly. So it was very local and I did like local SEO and stuff. But that from 2020, that totally changed because I started doing VIP days, I started doing summit websites and that was, you know, it wasn’t the market, wasn’t the local markets anymore. So I started, you know, I was already very online, I was already in contributing to the WordPress community internationally. So, yeah, I just moved more, more online, more internationally. And then that’s also the reason why I could move to Portugal, because if I were working with local clients, that wouldn’t have been possible Like till today. I get it because I’m still like, actually my business is still in South Africa and I still have a COSA and South African email address and everything. I still get people that wants to come see me at the office and like if I say no, I’m only online, they think I don’t hear from them again. So interesting.

Josh: 9:51
So would you advise somebody who is going to plan to move out of their country one day or is going to travel? Would you advise sticking with com, like if you were to go back would you? Would you try to stick with just com?

Anchen: 10:04
Yes, definitely, yeah, no, if you, even if you live in a country and you, your clients are international, then get the dot com, because the COSA also doesn’t rank for international clients at all. Like they don’t see it. If I don’t, you know specifically, give them the URL they won’t pick it up in, and then yeah.

Josh: 10:27
Gotcha. That’s fascinating and, by the way, anyone watching on YouTube, I am using my new page builder coffee mug for my coffee this morning. Thank you, anshin, and your partner, nathan, for for sending this over. Your guys’s summit is one of the top in WordPress the page builder summit and is one of the best I’ve been a part of, for sure, with how organized it is and everything. And that leads me to something I was curious about with you, because one thing I like about your approach that I’ve seen so far is that most web designers try to like find clients and like go out and kind of hunt them down, but you have done a really good job of like attracting clients by a way of being a part of the summit and doing WordPress meetups and being involved in online communities and then sounds like some local things as well. So I really appreciate that about you. I’m kind of curious before because I would like to dissect how you do that and what’s worked for you. But before that, how and why did you get involved with a summit? Was that a business decision? Because I can’t imagine that you’re working with web designers as much. How, how did the summit come to be?

Anchen: 11:35
Yeah, so yeah, thank you for saying that about the summit. So, yeah, we, it is not a business decision at all, really, because, yeah, nathan and I did normally summits. The whole point is to launch something on the back end Because you have all these eyes on you, but we, we don’t do that at all. We don’t have anything we’ve. We thought about it and we’ve tried to monetize it, but I think that’s actually one of the reasons why it’s working that well, because we don’t. You know, the whole idea is just to put the summit on. Obviously, we, we, we do sell the whole access part, so there’s some sort of monetization just making it worthwhile, but it’s not, it’s not like a you know for the audience or anything. So, but I started in. It was in 2019. I wanted, I started, I loved summits. I like the whole idea of summit was just awesome and I was part of Krista Miller’s summit in the box when she, when it was just coming out, like I was part of the beta group for that and I just wanted to do a summit that didn’t know what, I just wanted to give it a try. So I did like a WordPress related summited, just just like a general WordPress one, and then that was end of 2019. And then me and Nathan met in person at that in 2019, at the WordCAP in Europe, and we were talking about the summit and we would started talking about doing a summit together. And he had this idea of doing a page build, specifically on page building, and I love that idea because the more specific you can be for a summit, the better. So I just thought that that’s really cool and yeah, and then we started planning it. And then obviously the whole COVID thing happened and there were no WordCAP happening. There was like so our WordCAP, our summit in 2020, was actually like like all the sponsors were interested because they didn’t have anywhere to put their money and it was really, it was a big one. So, yeah, that was really good and yeah.

Josh: 13:42
I didn’t think about that in the golden age of summits. Yeah, because everything was locked down. That’s true.

Anchen: 13:48
Yeah, so that those first three I would say was like really like big and yeah. And then we, we just kept on going, because we’re like every time there’s so, there’s a lot of engagement and the speakers got, you know, a lot of positive feedback, and then we say, okay, let’s try it once, one more and see how it goes up. While people are still loving it thing, now, let’s, let’s just keep on doing it, because we’re mostly doing it just just for doing it, so just for for serving, so yeah yeah, so community, you’re obviously expanding your network of web designers, but your clients like who, who are your ideal clients?

Josh: 14:27
as somebody who is has traveled and has relocated, are you, do you have like a niche and ideal type of customer avatar, or or has that changed over the years for you?

Anchen: 14:40
So that definitely changed from the more local type of businesses to more online creative service providers. So I’m I still love working with creative people, but I now focus on like online, so it’ll be designers or copywriters or but and a lot of coaches. I get a lot of coaches and mainly, I would say people are very focused on online, booking online and funnels, like having you know either digital products or doing summit or any kind of of yeah, things that need like recurring creation of funnels and pages.

Josh: 15:20
So so a lot, probably like a lot of creators, dot leaders, online entrepreneurs, stuff like that.

Anchen: 15:25
Yes, yes, yeah yeah.

Josh: 15:27
That makes sense. That’s interesting too. What? What’s that been like going from local clients, who are probably just business owners who don’t even know what WordPress is, to, yeah, like an online entrepreneur? What’s that difference been like? Good, bad?

Anchen: 15:41
Oh yeah, it’s not, it’s been good. I, the type of client I have had so far, Mainly is not that you know they’re technical and they know what they’re supposed to do and they have coaches and they’ve gotten a lot of them have marketing people already so they know what they want and they do know about funnels, but they’re not necessarily that technical, so they do still listen to my advice and everything. So I think, yeah, I found like a sweet spot where they can do things themselves and they can make changes, but they either prefer me doing it because they don’t have enough time. That’s actually one of the big things that they can do it but they just don’t have the time to do it. And yeah, and I just found them like it’s easy to work with because they know about these stuff and they know why we need it and why it’s important.

Josh: 16:39
Yeah, I found, as long as clients get you content at a reasonable time for the clients who don’t have time, they’re actually great clients usually because they’re like, yeah, you just do it. You know I’m running my business If you can get like a mature business owner, they’re like, yeah, do you do what you do? I do what I do that. Just that the tricky part of that is the content collection, because it’s like, all right, we need some harsh deadlines and everything in place here and some some processes to make sure we get the content even if it’s limited time. But I’m glad that’s working out for you. That’s cool because it is a very different customer profile and online entrepreneur and I’m kind of curious. We’re kind of going from this backwards because I kind of thought about starting with your origin story and how you got into web design and getting clients and up to where you are now. So we’re kind of going backwards. So, right now, with where you’re at these online clients you’re getting is, did these come just by making connections online and doing things like summits and being part of the WordPress community, or are you a part of, like, broader creative networks and groups Like how are you finding these, these creators and online entrepreneurs as clients.

Anchen: 17:43
Yeah, I think. Just I’m not part of any broader groups, only the real. The one group that really helped me was being part of the summit in a box group and I’m also one of Christa’s preferred suppliers, so referrals or whatever, so that definitely worked. And then from there, you know it, referrals, like I get a lot of people referring me that I’ve worked with, and then they because they are copywriters, they’re marketing directors, things like that then when they get a client that needs a new website, they refer me again. So that’s one thing. And then just being visible, like the, even though you know the summit, definitely it’s not my audience, but this I’ve done white label work for people on. You know, from the summit I’ve done a lot of things that yet just being visible and just yeah, yeah.

Josh: 18:39
There’s a lot of authority. There’s a lot of authority being someone who puts on a summit I mean I’m good friends with Emma Kate and her partner, anna Dower with the designer boss summit like that. I’ve seen them both like blow up really with the start of their summit, like that’s what kind of jetted them off to the web design stratosphere and others who have done summits and events. Like even if you’re early on putting that on, you become an immediate connector and I’ve talked about that in the form of networking and having a network of people you refer to. But somebody who does an event or an online summit is the same, it’s the same principle. You’re just, you’re a connector in your relationship building. So that’s really really cool to see how it’s like an authority piece for your brand. I feel like.

Anchen: 19:25
Yeah, I think I can do more because I hate sales. So that’s one of the reasons why I can’t change and can’t get clients like I did. The attraction strategies just works for me, but I think I could do more to actually, you know, tell people that I do have offers or I do have services.

Josh: 19:45
Okay, hold on, I’m going to go into the podcast show notes for this and I’m going to change the title I had in mind because you hate sales but you get clients. That is a great line. Hold on, hate sales like it’s clients with ancient. Okay, that’s only going to be the title, because this is fascinating and this is the common story with all web designers, and I’m in this boat too. I actually, one of my close colleagues, jason Grosse, I’m going to mastermind with. He has like this productized site for coaches, for coaching sites. Have you seen it? Swift sites.

Anchen: 20:16
Yes, it’s amazing.

Josh: 20:18
He loves sales, like that’s. All he does is sales calls, but he’s very he’s not like a harsh salesy kind of guy. But recently we were talking about the launch of my new business course, the new version, and when I told him the entire process they’re building it, revamping it, launching it, marketing it as soon as I talked about the marketing sales, my posture kind of dropped and I just wasn’t sounding as excited. And he’s like Josh, you love creating but you hate selling, don’t you? And I was like, yes, I just know how I feel and I don’t know if that’s just natural to all web design. I don’t know, I don’t know where that maybe it is, and maybe that’s why I like hanging out with web designers is because we’re not like the harsh salesy people. But you’re doing it right and you’re bringing people to you. You’re you’re communicating and networking online. You’re building referral partner relationships, you’re getting referrals and that’s amazing. Like you’re a perfect example that you don’t need to be the quote unquote salesy person to build your business and to get clients.

Anchen: 21:15
Yeah, I will work really hard and do a lot of things. Do not have to do sales like outbound sales. So, yeah, I think yeah, I’ve the amount of time I’ve said is put into like creating like funnels and things just to be more automated. So I don’t have to. It’s actually yes, but yes.

Josh: 21:38
So I want to dive into your referral relationship. Was it? Was it Christina? Is that right?

Anchen: 21:45
Christa Okay.

Josh: 21:47
So that’s right. So she, yeah, she like pioneered the summit in a box. I’ve never been through it. I don’t know her personally, but I’ve heard her name brought up, just kind of peeking into the summit world. How did you become her, one of her referral partners as the web designer? Did you? Were you a student of hers? And then she found out you did websites? Like how did you make that relationship without selling to her?

Anchen: 22:12
So I’m trying to think back against. It’s been a while. Yeah, it’s so, I was. Yes, I was a student. I would like I mentioned I jumped onto hers when I probably was one of the first 10 people to join her summit in a box, when it was still like a membership and she was still like she was still creating it. So it was, and I immediately implemented. So I think that’s also a good thing. And then I think she knew I was a developer as well, but I just started answering questions in the Facebook group. So there were a lot of technical questions and I and obviously I just started helping out answering questions and I think she at one stage she, oh, yeah, she did. She offered like a license. You buy like a license to work with people that’s not summit in the box, clients so that you can use all the templates and everything. And I did buy that one at one time. Nowadays, everyone I work with already did the course or so different, but at that time you’re having to use her templates and having to use the process. You needed the license, or you still do. Obviously you’re not clients, but yeah, so I bought that and in that way it just became like I think I helped out a few times with when they couldn’t they also do like basic setup and then when they got they were too many people so I helped out and I also, like Krista, hired me to help out with client summits for them. So I did some of the development when I think that it was in cadence and they didn’t want to do that cadence side, so I did that. So yeah, it was just a organic type of relationship from joining her.

Josh: 23:58
So when people asked me, how do I get clients that aren’t local? Like, how do I get clients online? My number one strategy because it works for me and it works for everyone I know, like yourself, who has done this is to join a community multiple communities and be the most helpful person there and you will get clients. Is that fair to say, like, do you agree? I mean, obviously your story shares that at work, but is that a strategy that you would recommend for folks who don’t have clients locally?

Anchen: 24:25
Yes, yes, definitely. So nowadays it’s harder because the groups are more full and like especially the general groups. There seems to be so many people jumping in. But yeah, especially if you can get like a niche group or a group where you might be one of the only web developers that you know, if it’s like a more like, you know, like a specific, like a membership specific or core specific group and there’s not a lot of designers in there. Well, even like in our community.

Josh: 24:58
Web designer pro. Like there’s a lot of people who are hungry for work at certain points in their business and what I’ve seen. This has been really interesting and I saw this in my my debut web designers Facebook group, which was, which was a huge group and similar with web designer pro, just at a different level. But there’s a lot of people who are really helpful and really active and then they disappear Because usually they get really busy and that’s often the case Now. Some people disappear for other reasons, not in pro, but particularly in fate free Facebook groups. But it is something I’ve seen a lot recurring where, like, I think about, like one of our members, dan, who is slammed right now and last year he was in pro every day, every thread being really helpful, sharing what he knew, what he could and, yeah, I just turned the corner for him and he’s partnered with a lot of people in pro and it’s just a really good example and I do recommend, if people can swing it, to join a premium community at some point. There is you’re just going to get better people generally to network with and affiliate with. But free Facebook groups and other spots are okay too, but you’re right with like, just imagine web designer pro. We’re at 150 members right now. It’s way easier to stand out in a crowd of, you know, a couple hundred people, then a group of 25,000 people, because there is going to be a lot more people. Now the good news is I found it doesn’t mean that there’s going to be a lot of quality people, and often a lot of people in a big Facebook group tend to be pretty rich, real like, with responses and stuff. So if you’re just nice and actually really helpful, you will get work. But I just say that to say like if you can swing a premium group, whether it’s pro or anything else, like you did with the Soma in a box, you will stand out a lot faster and those relationships tend to happen easier. I feel like.

Anchen: 26:49
Yeah, now, that’s definitely one of my turning points in my whole business as well is starting to join like higher level masterminds, and you know, and different ones, like not just whip whip related, but general business or CEO. You know type of masterminds.

Josh: 27:09
Where are you finding those? I’ve always been curious about that because I don’t. I never personally like I didn’t have too much experience personally finding groups that weren’t web design online. In person that was all I did was just business groups and referrals and networking groups, but online I’ve only ever been in web design groups. Well, that’s not. That’s not true. I have been an SPI pro smart passive incomes group and that was pretty cool. For a little while I’ve been in a membership with my coach, james Sramko, but I haven’t really utilized those for clients. It’s been more coaching for me in this endeavor. But where have you found some of those like online business groups?

Anchen: 27:47
So again I it was. It wasn’t really to find clients, the idea was more for me, but so I think it’s mostly women groups, like, if I’m thinking, both of the groups that I’m in is mostly just women. I think there’s a lot of it’s like business coaches, and the one is Rachel Cook that I’ve been part of the CEO CEO collective. I’m not in that one anymore, but that was a really, really nice one that I’ve been and then I’m also in the modern CEO from Amber McHugh and that I’ve been in hers for a while. And then there’s other ones like, just like focused on a specific thing. So there are one focused on content, specifically from Haley Dale, and yeah that’s. But yeah, if I think about it, most of those groups are women, but which is good, because that is mainly a focus nowadays I mostly work with women.

Josh: 28:42
That makes sense, and I mean for somebody like myself, who may not be welcomed in all those groups like there are so many business groups online and there’s also this huge new market of the industry under the umbrella of the term creator, which encompasses everything from YouTubers, podcasters, online coaches, anybody doing content marketing. Like I’m a creator, and the really cool thing about that is a lot of creators are not great at websites or the tech stuff, or they might have some familiarity with it, but, like you said earlier, they’re just they don’t have the time for it, so they’re looking for web partners to help fill in the gaps of all this. So I think there’s actually a really, really exciting segment of the market opening up purely online for, like, web designer, for creators. Hold on, I’m going to get that domain name before somebody takes it. What you know? What I mean, like that idea of thought leaders. I mean you could. I guess authors could be in there as well, but I see that. I mean it sounds like that’s kind of what you’re catering towards in some way too, but that seems like there’s a really, really exciting market for that for web designers.

Anchen: 29:51
Yeah. So, like I’ve mentioned before, the thing with those kind of clients is it’s not a one and done thing. It’s like they always need new things, that they’re always selling and say bring out new offers, and yeah, so it’s a. It’s literally if you and I think I’ve mentioned that to you you can have three clients and they can get you basically the years of, especially if I am like I have two or three recurring summit clients that have a summit every year. Some of the some have a summit more than once a year and that’s like a. That’s a big, that’s a three month project. So, having a few of those clients and you, you don’t have to sell too much.

Josh: 30:30
Heck, yeah, no. You’re a great example of yeah, get a handful of clients or a couple dozen clients and then serve them well and you don’t need to sell. It’s a wonderful world of web design. Are you still working with local clients? You’re like the previous ones. Do you still have like a Rolodex of local clients that you’re maintaining and working with?

Anchen: 30:49
Yes, so I still most of my key plan clients are still South African clients, so they and so I do still work with them and I do still get inquiries from. I just booked, I just onboarded a South African client and it’s, it’s so weird because I can’t think I can’t, but I charge them convert to dollars or euros, because then it’s like, why am I doing this? It’s crazy, but I it’s just, I think, while I’m, while I have enough of the other clients to, you know, be financially, financially, as long as I do have still have some space for local clients, I will keep on doing that. But yeah it is a bit crazy.

Josh: 31:37
And how are you? How are you keeping? I mean, there are some clients, like you mentioned in the summits, and others who may have campaigns that they generally run a couple of times a year or whatever, but are you taking a proactive approach with your current clients to to keep them, or do you have like a newsletter? Do you reach out personally every once in a while? These are all strategies that I share in my business course to to keep top of mind and keep clients coming back Like how, what, what’s your approach, I guess, to to keep clients coming back?

Anchen: 32:06
So I am again. That falls under sales and marketing, which I’m terrible with, but I do. I do try to in times in my business. I’m good with creating content and then sharing it on email. So I do kind of have that. Every this time of year I’m always planning to go beg again and do like weekly emails and everything. But yeah, I’m not that great but I do have. I’m in a lot of bundles and I have small courses. So I do. My email list is always growing and I do. If I decide to send out and create a new offer, I do send that out to them. So there are some some proactive email marketing. But I then, especially with the clients, that does do the summits. I will like, if they did a summit like last year the fall, I will reach out like ahead of time and say just to tell I’m I’m booking up for the summit in the fall. If you are planning one, let me know. And yeah, thanks. So I do try and keep you.

Josh: 33:08
You just hit on a wonderful sales technique which I’m sure you didn’t think about it like a sales technique, but it is. If you have a booked out model to like give people a heads up to say, hey, I’m already 30 days out. If you’re going to want work done in the next couple of months, book me now. Actually, my, one of my, I have two VAs one who handles a lot of the podcast stuff and distribution and it helps me with some tech related stuff and I reached out to her just to see where she was at and she’s already booking out a month out. And it got me thinking like, yeah, for her, which she doesn’t need to do this, but anyone with that model, if you just give clients a head up like heads up, I’m booking out next month, they will work with you or book out that time and plan accordingly. So there’s another free sales tip for everybody Do that little. If you have the booked out model, do that. Or even if you’re like me and I never did the booked out approach, I did get busy and have like a window of delay and I one thing I would do if I would go back is to say like, hey, just let clients know we’re, we’re about a month out starting new projects. So if you’re going to plan to do a redesign or have some stuff added, if it’s outside of your maintenance plan time, book it now. We can take a 50% deposit and then we’ll get on the schedule for next month. Great sales tip and for anyone struggling with cashflow or in a dip, do that and see how many people you’d get potentially.

Anchen: 34:32
Yeah, and it’s, it’s. It’s such a non-salesy way to reach out because you’re not sounding desperate at all, but you just really and in my case it’s really because it’s a 90 day. You know you meet about 90 days to create a summit, not only from my side, more from you know, actually planning it and getting speakers and stuff. So it is a good heads up for them. It’s actually it doesn’t sound salesy at all.

Josh: 34:57
You know, I actually think it’s mandatory as a designer, if you are booked out, to let your clients know that you’re booked out, because what would be worse, what would be worse than feeling salesy is for a client to say hey Josh, I’m looking to add some new pages of the website and redesign some stuff and do this and this and this probably going to be like 10, 20 hours, and then you say, oh well, I can’t until like two months from now because they’re going to be like oh well, I would have appreciated some heads up on that. So I think that idea of feeling salesy sometimes gets in our way as web designers, when it is our duty to let people know if we’re, if we’re, busy and to give them a heads up. It’s not salesy, it’s, I think, it’s the right thing to do, Like it’s out of respect for clients.

Anchen: 35:42
Yeah, definitely Good way. Yeah, that’s an interesting point.

Josh: 35:46
I really didn’t really think about it too much until this conversation, but yeah, it really is kind of a yeah, my mind kind of a respectful thing to do. So you’re interesting because you still, even when you got started, from what I’m aware of let’s so again, we’re kind of going in reverse your journey, like let’s go back in time a little bit to local clients and when you were starting as a web designer, because you kind of fumbled into web design, right.

Anchen: 36:13
So I was a developer. So I did study as a computer, computer, information science or whatever it was called back in the day. And then I started as a dot net developer and it was around 2012 that I started getting. You know I was a contractor in any case so I started getting like people from the outside asking for websites. I first tried to do like dot net website but that. But then I discovered WordPress and it was just like, oh, it’s so much easier, just, you know, doing it in WordPress. So I started doing a few. And then, yeah, in two I think 2014, 2015, I went like full out, but I was still doing contracting work on the side for my company. And then, in 2016, I went, I you know, full on being and how were you getting local clients?

Josh: 37:06
Was it kind of the same approach, Cause I can’t imagine ancient in 2015 or 16, was you know hard selling people Like? Was it the same approach you take now, Just in person?

Anchen: 37:17
Yeah, yeah. So it was exactly the same Only met people and, like you know, when they when they asked me that they wanted to decide I would do that. But again, I was very visible and I started a meetup group, the WordPress meetup group in our city. So I was quite visible and I also joined. When I quit my job, I joined a coworker space. So and I started and that was really great because I specifically joined a coworking space for creative, for a photographer. It was a studio, so it had like a lot of photographers, designers, stationary designers.

Josh: 37:59
So another hidden secret to getting clients yeah, I joined a co-working space because everyone in there if they, you know, you all meet each other. And they’re like what do you do? I do website design. Like, oh my God, my website sucks, we should talk. Or my client’s site is, you know we’re uploading, you know of their photographer. They’re like, yeah, we’re putting photos on there. It’s just horrendous. It’s a great way to make, to meet people and make clients.

Anchen: 38:18
Yeah, so the these clients that I still have till today, they are all still from that co-working space. Wow, Like at least five or six of them that I still, you know, maintain till this day. So definitely that was exciting.

Josh: 38:36
Can we dive into the WordPress group you founded? What did you look for like a WordPress group, and there just wasn’t anything available, so you started one. Is that kind of how that happened, or what prompted you to start a WordPress meetup?

Anchen: 38:49
I guess. So I was. I didn’t even know about weird camps at all and I think I was on WP Mavins. Wp Mavins, I was part of that mastermind and I heard about this weird camp thing and I looked and I found that there was in Cape Town. There was actually a weird camp, and I decided, okay, no matter what, I’m going, and I was living in Pretoria, so I decided I’m definitely going to go. And then one of the talks at that weird camp was how to contribute more and be part of the WordPress community more. And then they talked about these meetup groups that I knew nothing about. And then there weren’t any group in Pretoria at that stage. So at that weird camp already I applied to be to start it. And then, also at that weird camp, I found out that in Johannesburg they want to start a weird camp as well, but it could also be the first time that they will have a weird camp there. So I joined the group. So, yeah, I started organizing the weird camp for Johannesburg and started started up the meetup.

Josh: 39:56
Did that lead to getting local clients at all, just being in those groups?

Anchen: 40:02
It did Not as much as I could have. Probably, again, I did not sell anything. I did get a lot of people asking me for help, but it was a lot of lower budget, diy type camps. I definitely found that. Yeah, but I had the referral partners that I met, like other developers that I then started working for, like I did white labeling for one huge project for one of the guys that I met there I started. I met people from an agency that till today I’m still doing the K-Plants Alliance for, so, yeah, so I think it’s more that when it comes to WordPress specific meetup groups, it’s more like the peer-reminded yeah, have you found that any DIYers go into those?

Josh: 40:53
or are the groups that you’ve been a part of mostly like serious web designers and developers? Yeah, it’s definitely DIY.

Anchen: 41:01
There were a lot of DIYers, but they were not looking too higher, or if they were, they had like really low budgets. So yeah, so even at that time my budget for South Africa was a little bit high. So, yeah, it was a little bit more than established clients.

Josh: 41:18
Gotcha and were they like yeah, because I was curious about with WordPress meetups, are those going to attract just developers? That would usually just be like partners and affiliate people and collaborators, which those can be great affiliate relationships, because you may have a WordPress meetup and you may meet a developer who doesn’t do branding and if you do branding along with your website design awesome, you’re a great pair to work together. And if they do, you know e-commerce and you don’t do e-commerce awesome. You send them clients, they send you clients. That’s a win-win-win right there, baby. So I love that approach. When it comes to like the meetups that are like industry related, like WordPress or whatever, that’s really one of the hidden gems of in the networking world. We call them core groups, but it’s the same approach here with like meetups and web design conferences and that is, you’re meagling with people who are in the same vein as you but might do a few different things, and those are like the best referral people ever Like. Some of my best referrals came from my core group with an SEO guy, a videographer, we had a branding person, a marketer. Those were great because none of them did websites. So, yeah, I just wanted to hit that point, because I think it’s a really good representation of what you did early on. It sounds like yeah.

Anchen: 42:37
And also I think if you are the organizer of the group, you can decide. You can. If your topics that you do are more DIY related, if you’re more focusing on like content creation inside WordPress, then you’re definitely going to attract the. So if that’s your whole strategy is to get clients from these meetup groups then definitely it can work.

Josh: 42:59
Yeah, if you host, like a PHP functions talk, you’re not going to get the business owner who’s playing around with WordPress. But if you talk about, like, how to use your WordPress site to build your business or something, they’re like oh yeah, all right, yeah, that’s a good point. So you, you this has been a really cool encapsulation so far of your journey from being a developer, getting into WordPress and starting your business, doing freelance, making relationships, getting into the online world through communities, both free and paid. It sound like Just really working on not selling but just being helpful, and then being a connector. It’s kind of taken to where you are now. So how long have you been in business? Now? That ancient?

Anchen: 43:42
So I think it’s about eight years like full on, like registered business, and obviously I did like the odd project before that. But I think, yeah, about eight or nine years. So you’re in my community.

Josh: 43:55
I wanted to take a couple of minutes to do like a little coaching here with you because I want to help you, like not that you’re in a position of challenge or struggle, but what are the challenges that you have now in your business? And I think it’s to be an interesting case study for people who get to this point where you’re closing in on the 10 year mark. But I don’t know like what do you feel? Like you have any pieces like gaps that you’re looking to close in your business or challenges that you’re facing right now?

Anchen: 44:22
I think I could still do more with I think I did mention this to you with all these things that I’m do, I think I’m very visible, but I’m not. I do need to do a little bit more selling, you know, or something that doesn’t doesn’t look like selling, but because I, like, I’m part of the organizing team for WordCamp Europe and but I would never know and they would even know what I do, you know, they wouldn’t, maybe not even know. Besides, the page will the summit. That’s the one thing that people do know. But, again, I don’t use that as this, really as a selling thing. So I could do with more strategies to actually, you know, convert the visibility that I have into actual clients at the end.

Josh: 45:08
Yeah, I mean my initially, my first thought would be to do the email thing, because you have a robust network and whether this would be tied to the page builder summit or whether you would keep that separate. I don’t know what that would look like but depending on your email list. You said you have some courses and products I would recommend highly to start out with, even if you just did like a monthly email. That would just basically it doesn’t need to even be salesy, but it just showcases, like what work you’ve done recently, results that you’re getting clients something personal, something that you’ve learned, stuff like that, like any tools that you’re really hot on. I think that would be a really, really good way to go at first, because it’s just a top of mind thing and I’m getting ready to launch my newsletter and in classic Josh fashion, I’m going to do it once a week and, you know, probably make it overly complicated, but I thought about doing once a month. But I feel like from my brand I don’t know because I don’t do service work I have more time to be able to devote to, to do in a newsletter, even keeping it as simple as possible at first once a week. But I get for like your position. Once a week is a lot. I think it would be too much, honestly. So for like for service providers, for web designers, I think once a month is totally fine. Actually a guest who’s been on this podcast a couple of times, and Stefanik. She is the CEO of a company called Canopy Studios. They do mostly Drupal sites. I need a lot of e-commerce for bigger brands. They have a monthly newsletter and I’ve been subscribed to them since the first day she came on my show and they have stuck with it every month religiously and it’s great. It just is a simple newsletter that just shares something they learned and recent projects, case studies, and I know that that really keeps top of mind with their, their pool of clients and network. So I don’t know if that is, if you’re interested in that, but I feel like that would be the easiest place to start, would just be something yeah, basically just a newsletter, because it really is kind of just a encapsulation of of what you’re doing and then particularly with, like, the results that you’re getting, clients and case studies and new project launches. Those are always the biggest, I guess, converters that I’ve seen when it comes to email. And then you could say, like I’m building websites right now for creators, or whatever it is. You could splice in a quote unquote salesy section without you know like, doing an email that’s like hey, buy my thing.

Anchen: 47:35
Yeah, I like that idea. I don’t know why I don’t do it. Because I could, I, because I just I do send emails, because I’m in summits and bundles and stuff, so I do, but I don’t do enough valuable or anything behind the scenes. I never give them a peek into the studio or anything. So definitely, and the idea of doing it once a month, I don’t know, I could just do that.

Josh: 47:57
This is probably me to maybe do a challenge in pro to have like everyone commit at least for like three months, like three months once a month. We can all do that. Did you happen to see Leanne, who is in pro and had been on the podcast recently? Did you happen to see her post in pro about the newsletter that she did Cause she got some clients from it and I actually have it here All message it to you in pro? But it was a really really good example and I’ll see if she’s cool with me sharing this maybe on the show notes for this episode. It’s a really great example of a newsletter and it is just kind of a classic newsletter that has everything I just mentioned. But she said I think I remember right I think she got like two new projects from it and it was a newsletter. She didn’t have to go to a networking event, she didn’t host a webinar, she didn’t do any sales thing, she just did a newsletter and but made some clear like proactive call to actions in there to like help if you, if you need help, cause newsletters can run the risk of just being like company updates and you don’t want that. That’s when I first got into web design. When I thought of newsletters, I thought about like a corporate business sharing, like the new team members and company retreat that they had. But as I’ve really learned to love email and newsletters more and more, it’s so much more than that. It’s like it’s a personal look at what’s going on. You have a lot more room to especially if you like writing, to be yourself and to put your personality into it, and then you have your showing results and then there’s a not an ask, but a like, proactive approach to like hey, I would like to help you and I’m booking out next month. I’ve got, you know, 30 days booked, but November is open in this case. That’s a great way to go. So that’s definitely my challenge to you. I think I’m going to make it official and pro.

Anchen: 49:39
Yeah, cool. Yes, I would love that. I love a challenge Like any, anytime there’s like an official challenge. I’m in Two days.

Josh: 49:47
I’m going to put that in pro and mention that in the next Q and A. So I really think and actually just everyone watching and listening like it’s something you can do too. You can do a monthly hit, a monthly hit of you, and it really doesn’t have to be anything fancy. You could keep it simple and make it, you could evolve it, but it’s certainly something I would have done if I could go back, cause I never had an official newsletter. I did email all my clients occasionally, but it wasn’t an official, it wasn’t anticipated or expected, and I think that’s really important and, yeah, so it’s given me.

Anchen: 50:23
So these there are things that I do Like. I do a lot of product productivity techniques and a lot of things. That, and a lot of well, a lot of web designers is into productivity. But I have things that I do specifically and then I always think I want to share this with people. But I don’t do reals and things. I don’t want to do anything that I have to do weekly or daily or anything, but I can do that. I can have like one video of things you know nice things that I’m doing once a month. That’s not, that’s not too bad. Or showing a VIP day. You know how I’m doing a VIP day and I’ll setting it up or see you all day, cause I do quarterly see a retreat and things like that, and I know people oh, absolutely yeah, and those, those kind of things too.

Josh: 51:11
That’s kind of cool. This is the approach that I’m taking with my newsletter is it’s not like you have to wait and only do one a month, like you can put out resources and content as much or as little as you want, but the newsletter is like the, the table of contents. It’s like okay, this month, here are some things I posted, uh, and then, you know, here are some projects that we released. Here are the case, case studies, if you can show them some client results, and then, yeah, just that, that call to action. Essentially, I mean, that’s what worked for Leanne with her, with her pushing her newsletter out and getting some clients. So I just love that approach. I I’m a little shocked I think you’re a good example of and maybe why I’ve delayed my newsletter up to this point. It’s like why not? What is what is there to lose? Mine is the time commitment thing. I’m like do I really want to commit to doing another thing once a week? But I do feel like it’s a missing piece in my business. And for you, anshin, like you said, it’s like you’re excited about it. You said I don’t know why I haven’t done it. There’s nothing to lose. It’s not like you’re committing to making video reels once a day or once a week. It really is kind of a nothing to lose situation in my mind for everyone. Yeah, so that’s exciting. Have you thought about other? Yeah, no it sounds good yeah.

Anchen: 52:33
No, no, no, no. I think you cut out a bit.

Josh: 52:37
I was just going to inquire as to whether you had other ideas marketing-wise. The email thing would be a great way to go, but had you thought of other marketing strategies? To this point, especially now, I mean, you’re going to be moving, you’re even more into the online world what were some of your other ideas for marketing and client acquisition?

Anchen: 52:59
Not quite not fair, not at all. I have. Anyway, people are getting more mature. I have this new offer that it’s very productized. So it’s basically we have brand kits and we have like a templated layer, and my idea with this is to be like very, very automated, like they get a site spin up for them with Atrium and they can just fill in the copy on the site, and so the whole idea is like very productized. But to market it I was thinking to do like a challenge. So I will see if I do like a live or semi-live challenge or maybe just have it automated as well and then have like Facebook ads, because that’s the kind of thing that you could run Facebook ads do, because it’s free and everything and it’s an event and it’s the cost per lead on that is usually lower than I think. That would be a great phase too.

Josh: 53:59
I mean, I would personally start with the email right away, because that’s where that’s the home, that’s where you can bring people to. And then if you do a challenge and even if you get like 50 people to sign up for it or whatever it is that’s 50 people on your email list that will get the next newsletter and will deepen that relationship. Because we all know like when you meet somebody who’s a cold lead, it’s going to often be a while before they buy from you, unless they’re hot leads, like you’re getting from your referral network, which is my preferred way to go. For sure, when it’s organic but with a proactive approach on marketing, it is usually outbound more cold leads. The other thing I was thinking, though I would honestly I would make that like a last case. Sorry, I didn’t mean to make this like a coaching call, but it is fun kind of talking about marketing for web designers because there’s so many ways to do it, but I would make that like a last case scenario for me. I mean, with your network, anshin, you could, apart from the newsletter, if you were to partner up with some of the people in your network to do like, if you did a training instead of a cold audience to run ads to what? Have you offered a training to the people in the summit world? Like a case in point, I’m doing one for my friend, shannon Matter, and for her audience. This week I’m doing a free training just for her podcast listeners and email subscribers and there’s going to be some freebies that they can get and it will be a lead into my business course for those who would want it and want to go deeper. And my business course is a good fit with Shannon because she goes much higher level and deeper into money, mindset, pricing and marketing and some other stuff that I currently don’t go too far into. But it’s like my business course fills in a lot of the gaps that she doesn’t necessarily teach on, so it’s a really good fit. So I say that for everyone to think of. Who are you a really good fit for and can you offer something for their audience or their customers? That would be really the next thing I would do. I would do the newsletter and the monthly newsletter and then those affiliate relationships. Can you do a training of live for them instead of a cold audience? I wonder what that would look like for you.

Anchen: 56:09
Yeah, yeah, I wonder, yeah, I wonder. I’m very, very scared of being live on any training. So the whole idea with those challenges, like everything recorded, and everything behind this scene.

Josh: 56:25
Oh, okay, I was thinking when you said live, I was thinking it was like a live challenge that you would do. But even that, I mean you could create a workshop, have it be pre-recorded and then have it as a bonus for affiliate partners or something Like if you wanted to give support for people to come into your world, for something else you could offer like a pre-recorded workshop but do like a live Q&A after or be live in the chat while it’s going kind of like the summit type of thing. That’s always something you could do as well. I’m just trying to think of how you and everyone could utilize your current network without having to go cold, because cold marketing is just like the last. That’s the last thing I would do. I almost feel like you just don’t even really probably need to, unless you just wanted to grow your email list.

Anchen: 57:16
Yeah, I don’t really have to. So if I, my email list is big enough and that’s not the summit. So the summit has a separate list. We don’t, I don’t, you know, I don’t go to the it’s not my client, so yeah, I don’t use that list, but the one that just my my own clients. If I hack it, 1% conversion on my email list. I’m, I’m, I’m good, I have enough. You don’t want the way you just said ancient, that’s interesting.

Josh: 57:45
They’re not your clients. But what would be interesting is how many people are in the summit who would refer you to their clients or who would like to affiliate with you in some way. Like I as a as an attendee of a summit, if I were to get all the value from all the speakers and everything and it was free and you and Nathan worked your ass off to make this awesome summit I would not be offended if you each emailed us once at least and said I’m one of the hosts of the summit. I really appreciate you being here. If you would like to connect with me, here’s my website. You can. I have a monthly newsletter where I share some things I’m learned. I don’t know. I would seriously consider that. And then, even like with any, most summits have two people involved. So, like if you or Nathan were were to combine that in one email or do it separately, I would be completely fine with that. As an attendee, like, by all means, you have the right to and it’s not salesy, it’s not saying like, buy my thing, but just say like, if you would like to connect with me and learn about more about what I’m up to, follow me over here, and I think that would actually be a really interesting way to make more affiliate and colleague style relationships like that, because there’s probably a lot of people in the summit who, like I, didn’t know too much about what you’re up to until you joined pro. Honestly, I mean, I knew your name and I knew you were a part of the summit, but I didn’t really, I didn’t really look into you because I it was a proactive like you didn’t say check out my kind of thing, so I don’t know.

Anchen: 59:16
Just an idea as a coach I can’t help, but yeah, I hear you I I’ve never even thought about doing that, because it just feels so. How can I do that? You know, because Nathan is even worse than me. He is not salesy at all. He like all of the funnels and stuff that’s happening is because I said it.

Josh: 59:38
The cool thing about that, too, is this wouldn’t really be more about relationship building, whether they’re web designers, rather than client work directly. It would be more of an indirect thing, because with the page builder summit list again I think there’s a huge, I think honestly kind of goes back to that, like not that it’s your duty to do that, but like people want to know who’s behind a summit, like who are you, what do you do, who do you serve? And then knowing who you serve, now that gives me a better idea of what you do, who you do it for. So there’s probably thousands of people on that email list who really don’t know you very well and don’t even know what your brand is called or what you do exactly. They may think you just do summit sites but, if you do freelance work, you may be a really good referral partner for people. So, yeah, I I don’t know, that’s a whole separate challenge but I definitely and it’s not salesy at all, it literally is just like you know meet the person behind the summit and if they subscribe to your newsletter, you’ll continue to build that relationship and you could make a hundred referral partners for you in a couple of weeks, potentially doing something like that, depending on how many thousands of people are on the list. Yeah, I don’t know, sorry, I’m just probably just filling your head with a bunch of ideas, but I would personally do that. I would be, do you? see how I’m avoiding it.

Anchen: 1:00:53
No, but it’s good it’s, good it is. I love this, though.

Josh: 1:00:56
This is the kind of thing we do in pro for hot seats, it’s like. But the reason I’m saying this is because I avoid cold outreach like the plague, like I do not want to hit people cold and that’s actually one of my problems with what I do now. I’m actually in a business where it’s much more important for me to do that in this way because I do a root. I do a pretty good job, I feel, at nurturing the people who are already a listener of the show and subscribers and students. But I am not good at the cold outbound kind of thing. But I’m working on that with like free stuff and continuing to do more for YouTube videos and even then the podcast is free but it’s not as much of a cold audience, like not that many people are finding the show randomly. Some people are, but it’s not like YouTube channel or ads or whatever. But I’m in a position where it’s actually more important for me to focus on this. If I was doing all service work, as I was as a web designer for a long time, the focus is nearly 100% on referrals and affiliate relationships and more organic kind of stuff. So I expect to see an email from mansion at pagebuildersummitcom next week saying hey, I hope you enjoyed the summit. Here’s a you know. If you don’t know me, here’s a little more about me. Got a newsletter coming that’s going to help you in your web design career. There we go. Don’t even need to that one, you don’t need to say anything.

Anchen: 1:02:25
Sure Okay, I will see, I was already planning to do it the next time we do this, because then it’s not that far removed, I wonder. No, the next, the next one is going to be Okay, but I mean this one just happened, yeah, so yeah just just happens.

Josh: 1:02:46
I wonder how long are those videos still available? Well, they’re not available to everyone, but they are available. Have you’ve already sent out like a survey right On like?

Anchen: 1:03:01
yes, okay, okay, I promise, yeah, yeah, I promise. This is the last one that I answered Then.

Josh: 1:03:05
I’ll stop. I’ll. I know this isn’t a coaching call, it’s a podcast. Can’t help myself. This is so exciting. My last thought would be to make it the early announcement for, like the page builder summit. Like, hey, I hope you enjoyed the summit we did last month. Okay, a little bit more about you and what you do, that kind of thing. And just as a heads up, like, I hope you look forward to the next summit that we do in 2024, it’ll be likely in February. Keep your eyes peeled, whatever. And then, if you haven’t had a chance to meet me, you can check out my stuff. This is what I do and, again, you could phrase it however you want, but I just think like I would like to know. I don’t know anything about Nathan either. I did briefly look at his website. I didn’t even know he was a podcast host for a WordPress show. So, yeah, I mean, this is an important point. Visibility is great, but there’s also a point where most people just aren’t going to take the time to research us. It’s up to us to share who we are, what we do and how we help, and often like all the time, because not everyone sees our stuff. You may send an email but not everyone’s going to look at the email. I’ve learned this with, like sales emails, like when there’s like a launch it’s ending. I learned that to me I sent five emails. That feels like a lot, but not everyone looked at those five emails. It’s likely that people only looked at one or two. So, yeah, just some thoughts.

Anchen: 1:04:33
Cool. No, that sounds doable.

Josh: 1:04:35
I think that could be pretty cool, so sleep on that one Think about that. Hit me up in Pro. We’ll go from there, but for right now, start with the monthly newsletter. I think that would be a great challenge. I’m going to 100% put that in Pro. Yes, I’m good. I’ll see if Leigh-Anne’s cool with letting me share, because I do. She sent over the newsletter. She sent that she got some clients from. So I’ll see if she’s cool with me sharing that in the show notes for this episode and I’ll send that to you in Pro too, just as an example. But yeah, really really cool, why ancient? So again, I took this into coaching called Territory. But I’m sure this is really valuable for web designers who are looking at the marketing, because when I asked you about challenges, it seems like probably just acquisition, just new clients. Is that just kind of where the challenge is right now?

Anchen: 1:05:24
Yeah, and it’s hard because I am booked. So at this stage I’m booked up until summits for February. So it’s always hard to go all in with something and to market when you are booked, but I can’t do nothing because January is going to come and there’s not going to be a new client. So I think that’s one of the challenges where you have to stay visible, you have to stay proactive, and that’s the beauty about this approach of even those few strategies there between a monthly newsletter reaching out to past and current clients who may need you.

Josh: 1:06:04
That’s another thing we didn’t hit on. But what I teach in my business courses start there. Even if you have 10 clients reach out to them, check in with them, see if they need any work that could kind of come into play with a newsletter. And then, yeah, in your case, the Page Builder Summit. You could make a ton of connections like that with your affiliate partners, see if there’s something you could do for them with their audiences, and that way you don’t need to find new clients in a cold, outbound way. And then, because you’re right, and that’s also equally tricky, interesting point it’s really tricky if you have a booked out model, because cold clients are going to, if they are going to move forward, they may want to do that. But imagine starting a relationship with somebody and being like hey, I do web design. And they’re like, oh yeah, ok, I’m in. By the way, I can’t start for 45 days. It’s like, oh well, it’s an odd way to start a relationship like that.

Anchen: 1:06:56
So yeah, yeah, no, definitely. So this challenge was a whole separate model, a module offer, but it is very elected. That’s not part of what I’m booked out for, so that could be something that could still happen. Well, I certainly don’t want to discourage you from doing that.

Josh: 1:07:18
I’d say go for it, especially if you have a plan in place and are looking forward to it. Yeah, by all means, it would be a nice addition. But yeah, it’s just an interesting point where you’re at right now, where, yeah, like you said earlier, it’s like there’s a lot of things you just probably could do that you just haven’t done yet. Sometimes we just need someone to be like, hey, I’d do this, if I were you.

Anchen: 1:07:42
Yeah, and also I am very get new ideas and then go all in with that and not do the things that could actually bring in the real thing. So I do need to hear that. So it’s not I’m, I’m. I’m glad you you say that, because I do need to stop trying new things where the whatever works double down.

Josh: 1:08:02
Sometimes they are the old school things and the news there. The reason I harp on that right now is because it is working like I literally see it working. I’m in a really cool position to where I talk with hundreds of web designers and the ones who are doing newsletters are staying booked and are getting clients and are having recurring income booms and everything else, so I would definitely do it for everyone.

Anchen: 1:08:26
I would do it if I think that is how I buy things. There is, you know, I buy when I get an email. I hire people from you know service providers, when I’ve been on the newsletter for like all on their email list for a long time. So that is how I buy. So, yeah, obvious. And you have such a cool name, simply digital design newsletter.

Josh: 1:08:48
Like you don’t need to even need to know, that’s one thing to hang up. That I’ve had is like I just don’t know what to call my newsletter. I still have not solidified a title yet. There’s like three in the running right now that I’m going to and I’m going to finalize here. But but yeah, like for web designers, you just make it your business name and you’re good to go. So, yeah, awesome. Well, and this has been great, I’ve actually really enjoyed this chat with you. You are again a really good model to look at when it comes to somebody who doesn’t like sales but is doing a really good job of getting clients, which is amazing. This is going to be an episode. I want to refer back to a lot with your approach, with just being relationship building. I love that you have started WordPress meetups and summits and been active and engaging in groups and just helpful, and you have such a warm, just chill personality, like you know. Like there’s certain people where it’s like, oh, I don’t know if I’d want to work with them, but I imagine working with you is a dang pleasure, so I think that’s definitely contributed to as a referral person you know people want to refer people who are cool and who are nice. So, yeah, I love that. Do you have any? Maybe? Like just a last thought on what you would recommend for somebody else who’s in your position, who maybe they’re just earlier on like they want clients but they hate sales. Would you give them a tip or advice?

Anchen: 1:10:08
Sure, I can’t think of anything that we’ve happened. So there we go. What about what we’ve mentioned?

Josh: 1:10:18
What one would be the thing that you’d recommend.

Anchen: 1:10:21
Yeah, so definitely, yeah, I think definitely start starting your like your own groups or starting your own networking things, especially if you are struggling to, if you’re introverted or struggling to join other things or starting to struggling to be visible in other groups sometimes as hard for people. So, yeah, then, just starting your own thing and joining. Yeah, joining, paying to join is also a very, very good thing. I know it’s hard when you start out to pay to join a high level thing, but it really really does help. That’s awesome. Well, that’s well said ancient.

Josh: 1:11:05
Thank you so much for taking some time to share everything that’s worked for you so far. I had a really good time chatting with you. You know kind of getting into some coaching stuff too. Just because I love where you’re at there’s, I feel like very, really exciting times are ahead for you. Just, yeah, warm strategies versus cold strategies that’s kind of a cool case study we went into. So, yeah, thank you for allowing me to kind of share some thoughts with you and being open to that, and again, everyone can go check you out. Your website is simply digitaldesigncoza. Is that changing when you move?

Anchen: 1:11:44
Yeah, it will, probably I will, but I’m busy thinking about a redesign, so I will probably just do a redesign and then move it to thecom, but I will always forward.

Josh: 1:11:55
That makes my life easier, so we can still link this one for the show notes. So I appreciate it. All right, anton, thanks so much for coming on. I’ll see you over and pro here. So there we are, friends. I hope this gives you some empowerment and some confidence for those of you who just hate sales. But you need clients because I mean, we’ve talked a lot about this in the podcast and different episodes as well, but I just am thrilled about this nowadays because you don’t need to be the 1950s refrigerator salesman knocking on doors, pressuring people to buy. They don’t want to buy. We’re not in that industry Like, people are going to come to us and they are ready to buy because they want somebody to be their partner and to help grow their business. And that can be and should be you if you’re a good fit for them and if they’re a good fit for you. So you don’t need to quote, unquote, sell. You can provide the services that are good fit for them and charge accordingly, without again having to have those sleazy sales tactics. So I really hope this helps you out. Let me know, drop me a comment on the show notes for this episode. You can find that at jobcom. So you can find that at Josh Hall Co slash two nine five for this one. All the podcasts have show notes, time stamps and a lot more information. Thanks to my VA cam, who does that on all of these episodes. She puts a lot of work into this so I don’t want you to neglect or want to make sure you realize that every episode has full transcriptions, timeline, show notes and everything links, everything covered. You can go to Josh Hall Co slash podcast for all of the episodes and again this one with Anshin is going to be at Josh Hall Co slash two nine five. Go check her out right now at simply digital design dot co dot Z a. And then again she is the co host of the page builder summit, one of the best page builder or one of the best summits in WordPress. You can find out more about that at page builder summitcom. For the next one, which is going to be in Q one twenty twenty four. Hope you enjoyed this one. Friends, again, love to hear from you. Please leave a podcast review If you’ve been joining us. Join the show on Apple or on Spotify If you listen there, and I really, really am excited to help you feel better about sales. Friends, all right guys, enjoy this one and I will see you on the next episode. We’ve got some doozies coming up. I hope you’re excited, as I am All right. See you then.

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