440 – From Freelancer Stuck at 70k to Multi-6-Figure Agency Owner | Marc Hyde

From Stuck To Multi Six Figures
Marc Hyde 1:05

I was stuck at a ceiling and I wanted my ceiling to become my floor. I hit the same revenue mark twice. And I was stuck for a little bit at uh one income ceiling. So the reason why I joined Pro was I knew I needed to make a certain dollar amount in order to take care of our family. I knew in this age where we were going, six figures had to be the goal, like no questions asked. And then, you know, once we got to it, it was a lot of compounding interest, a lot of hard work, hard days, figuring things out and having conversations on um hot seats. And you’ve always told me like and helped me pivot a couple different key moments of like, okay, don’t chase that rabbit yet because there’s no money in that yet. And your kids need to eat. So stop chasing what looks fun right now and do the hard work to get paid. And then once you get paid, then you can do some fun work.

Josh Hall 1:53

Welcome to the Web Design Business Podcast with your host, Josh Hall, helping you build a web design business that gives you freedom and a lifestyle you love. Welcome in, my friends. It’s so good to have you here. And if you are somebody who is feeling a little stuck in your web design business or stuck at a certain revenue range that you just can’t seem to get past, I think you’re going to be extra happy you tune into this one because in this one, we’re digging into a web designer story who was stuck as a freelancer at the 70,000 annual revenue range in his business as a freelancer. But as a member of Web Designer Pro, I’ve been coaching him for several years now, and I’ve seen him really step into the owner role of his business. And I’m very happy to report that just a few years later, after being stuck, he has built a multi-six figure annual revenue web design business. He’s growing it, he’s even scaling it. We’re digging into all of the things in this one: his pricing, his offers, how he has a support system behind him to help free him up. This is Mark Hyde of Mark Hyde Creative Rockstar Web Designer Pro Member. I got to give a special shout out to Mark and a big thanks for him to be just so transparent in this chat with his pricing, his offers, and his numbers. And he had a big emphasis you’ll see here on recurring revenue through both support and maintenance plans and even growth and marketing plans. And you may wonder, are these plans together? Are they separate? Does he does he start with both? Does he start with support? And then that on marketing, what is working for Mark today with his multi-six figure agency? Well, good thing you’re here because that’s what we’re digging into. We’re talking all things about how Mark has gone from a stuck freelancer to a free owner in his business. So I’m so excited to bring you this one. Now, Mark and I share a lot of things in common, but one thing that we both have in common

Termageddon And Auto Updating Policies
Josh Hall 3:53

is our privacy policy tool for our websites. And that is Termageddon. They are the sponsor for this episode. If you would like to join me, Mark, and 10,000 plus agency owners who have their websites protected with privacy policies that auto-update so you never have to touch them again. Go to joshhall.co slash termageddon to get two free agency licenses. That is uh $200, $238 a year savings. You will get two free licenses that you can protect two websites for. And this is also something you can add on as a value add to your maintenance plan, by the way. I have been working with Termageddon for many years now. This tool was co-founded by an attorney and Hans, a for me our former agency owner. And again, it is a privacy policy that auto-updates. So you don’t need to track down and worry about being an attorney/slash web designer when they can do this for you. They cover 120 plus privacy laws, rules, and regulations. If you’ve seen anything about what’s going on with some of the updates with GDPR and the SIPA lawsuit stuff going on, if you are not taking this seriously, guys, now is the time. And you can go to joshhall.co slash termageddon to lock in two free agency licenses. Again, I use them. Mark uses them. Pretty much everyone in Web Designer Pro uses them. And I would recommend that you do as well. Joshhall.co slash termagedd is where to go. Link below as well. All right, my friends, here’s Mark. Let’s see how he got past. Feeling stuck at the 70,000 range and is now building, running, and scaling a multi-six figure web design agency.

Mark Hyde Creative 1.0 To 3.0
Josh Hall 5:37

Awesome, dude. Mark Hyde back on the show. Technically round three. You were back in episode 336, man. Really digging into a lot of your story and how you built recurring revenue and with both maintenance plans and growth plans, but that was over two years ago that we published that.

Marc Hyde 5:56

Was it really two years?

Josh Hall 5:57

Yeah. We talked like two and a half years ago. Isn’t time weird? Yeah. Granted, we have 11 kids in between us, so I’m just doing the math in my head and I’m just like, was that really?

Marc Hyde 6:08

But yeah, that was at my old house in office number one of office number two over there. And so yeah, guess that was two and a half years ago. That’s dude, that’s bonkers.

Josh Hall 6:16

Heck yeah, man. And when we did a little panel last year, um, we’re both special needs fathers. Uh we have unique situations as business owners. We have a lot in common. So I’m pumped to catch up, dude. I really want to dig into kind of where you’re at with the business now and what’s working for you with Mark Hyde Creative. I am curious though, when did because I will say it’s probably worthwhile referencing back to episode 336 for your, you know, kind of the full story. Um, but I do want to just double click into when you went from freelancer, even like just the mindset. When did you take your web design business like seriously? Like go from like, you know what, I’m doing this on the side, making some websites to like, I think I’m like really going for this. What?

Marc Hyde 7:03

Yeah, that’s a good question, bro. So right now, I would say I’m in Mark High Creative 3.0. That’s that’s how I use the the actually I do use that term with Beth, um, my wife. And so like Mark High Creative 1.0 started out of COVID where I just I needed to work, I won’t need to take care of my kids, uh, you know, was going through a divorce, was going through different changes with business, decided to step down from church ministry. And I’m like, I I gotta freaking hustle to feed these kids. And so Mark High Creative 1.0 was a I did everything and anything for anybody who, you know, could clear a check, like is kind of the idea for that. And then um I started taking the business seriously though, in about I would say 2022 is kind of when it really started getting serious. Um, because Beth and I, we got married in 2021. Um, and I woke up in a panic attack. And I Beth and I were talking about it, and I don’t remember if it was the fall of 2021 slash like going into 2022. Um, I had a panic attack of just like I finished the project, I had no more coming, I didn’t know where the next uh client was going to come from, I didn’t know what to do with it. Um, and then so I’m like, all right, let’s make a hard pivot, let’s start to see if we can make this thing work. Um, and so that’s when I started offering maintenance plan clients. Um, that’s when I started not even hosting, just maintenance and support, no hosting. Um, and so I started offering that and started getting some recurring revenue from from those clients, I guess, so to speak. And then um, about last year is when I made another pivot in the business where it’s like I can’t do this alone. Um, not that I didn’t have contractors working for me before, but those are more like ghostwriters because I needed, you know, blog posts for SEO clients, or I needed this for that client. But really, more of like, no, it’s it’s time to actually build a team, not just some little subcontractors under me. So I would say Markai 3.0 started, I would say about last year, and we’re potentially looking at Mark Kai Creative 4.0 and what that means.

Josh Hall 9:01

Wow. So 2020 1.0 was just freelancing, getting clients, like I’m thinking, social media graphics, I made a video reel for somebody.

Marc Hyde 9:10

Like, yeah, literally, kind of like you, like just anything. Do you have uh did you have any sort of music lessons on your business card? I I offered bass lessons, not on the business card, but I did uh and he just went off to Purdue when he was a junior high. I gave him bass lessons and he played bass for the church I was on staff at for a consistent four years after that. So yeah, bro, did music lessons a little bit too.

Josh Hall 9:32

All right. So for those of you haven’t been doing my business course, the the uh the the hidden joke in this is that yeah, I literally had drum lessons on my business card, which I feature in the business course. Actually turned out to be quite a conversation starter. So I’m not gonna say I regret it, but that’s how I so 1.0 2020, 2022, panic attack, started taking it seriously, specifically with the frame of recurring revenue. I really want to dive into that because I know that has been literally just an absolute game changer for your business and your bottom line. And then 3.0 2025, with really I’ve seen you. I’ve seen this with you coaching you inside Weber Center Pro. I have it’s been so cool, dude, because I’ve seen you go from like when you joined Pro in January 2024, at that point you were becoming like I think you were looking for someone to give you approval to be a owner of your business. You were like fighting the freelancer, fighting the solo printer. And then uh it’s been just an honor over the past couple years to kind of help you where I could to fill in the gaps and really just you know encourage you in the ways just to see you thrive as becoming the owner, which is not uh ever typically a fast thing. I mean, it’s been a two and a half year process, just from what I’ve seen.

Marc Hyde 10:43

And to be honest with you, bro, it wasn’t the goal. Like I didn’t set out to own a business, I set out to uh buy food for my kids. Like that’s what it came to. But you know, like all good things that grow. I’m one of those guys where it’s like if you ain’t growing, you’re dying. So we just kept growing, and now I look back and go, holy crap, like I own a business.

Josh Hall 11:01

I had this thought yesterday while I was mowing the lawn. I feel like such a dad, such a dad quote right there. I was moved the lawn and had a thought. Well, even better, we were talking before we started recording that uh you’re not too far from me in Indiana, but all the rain has been skipping you and hitting us, so my grass looks immaculate right now.

Marc Hyde 11:20

And I when I moved, I left my beautiful sprinkler system at the old house, and I don’t have one at this house, and um, I’m sad, but it’s okay.

Josh Hall 11:27

Well, I’ll send you a picture, I’ll send you a picture of my lines today to

The Identity Shift Into Ownership
Josh Hall 11:29

make you feel better. Um I did have this thought, which is I feel like the hardest point of a web designer’s journey is not when they get started, not the dip that inevitably hits shortly after that, but it’s actually when they are a swamped solopreneur. Yep. And there’s just it it’s so hard because there’s a lot of things at play. There is you’ve got an established business, you’ve got a foundation that you know could be more, and you probably have a weird feeling in you that you know, you know, it’s gonna be more to whatever level you want to make it. Typically, like in my case, you get swamped with work all at once and you realize you cannot continue on like this. And the scarier proposition there too is that nothing, unless you go with a booked out model, which I don’t prefer in most cases, unless you say I’m gonna stop new leads, nothing’s gonna stop potentially. So you really do are you’re at a point, I feel like, and I saw you, I think more so when you joined Pro, you were close to that point to where you’re like, you really are becoming an owner from a solo printer or freelancer. Do you do you feel like I’m right in that feeling of like that is like one of the hard maybe the hardest points as a solo printer, as a business owner?

Marc Hyde 12:52

Just like all my answers, yes and no. So yes, because there’s yes, it’s hard because I have to give up a lot of ownership and I have to give up a lot of um not even control, because I still, you know, micromanage the business in some regards, but it’s more the fact of I can’t take full ownership of the product that’s being produced. I think is more so it. And like uh, you know, like when I like college football programs or even professional professional football programs, the best coaches were your Nick Sabins, your Bill Belichick’s, and those guys were legitimate micromanagers for culture, for the product. This is where we’re going after, and I’m gonna have my hand in there because I we got to make sure it’s done. But you also have to know you can’t get it all done by yourself. And so for me, it was a yes, it was very, very hard and still is, dude. I still struggle with it because my name is the business and my name is slapped everywhere. So like it’s my reputation on the line. Um, but also it was hard because again, it wasn’t the goal. Like, like, you know, there’s some people inside a web designer pro, like I think of, you know, Big Ben. Uh, sorry, just just Ben. I call him Big Ben. Um, but I think of Ben and I I think of Dan, I think of these other guys where it’s like they set off inside of Pro, like, hey, the goal is to be a business owner. That was their entire goal. And for me, it was never just a goal to be a business owner. The goal was just to do really, really good work and take care of people. That’s really what it came down to. And so, but the more you do good work and the more you take care of people, the more you become those people’s guys. And then when other people need the work, they’re always gonna funnel it to like, you gotta talk to my guy Mark. You gotta talk to my guy, Mark. And that’s literally how I built the business. And so um, I got to the point where I would get sick and tired of being sick and tired of being pissed off about I gotta do this and I gotta do this and I gotta do this, complain enough to Beth, and then Beth comes in with solutions, or I complain to you and you come in with solutions. Um, and so it’s more of a, I just had to find help in areas that were either frustrating me, like maintenance for maintenance reporting or things like that. Like that took 10 hours of my like 10 to 15 hours per month on the first week of the month. And I’m like, this is killing me. Can somebody else do this? And now it’s the fact of we’re able to have, I think we have eight active projects, like active design and development projects right now happening. And I’m able to do it, and I still clock out every day at like 4 15 and I get to work when they drop the kids off for school. I Beth texted me yesterday. She was like, hey, you want to grab lunch really quick? I’m already out by the doctor. And I’m like, Yep. So I literally just shut my computer and ran over to B does with them. And we’re able to do these things because, you know, I just know I can’t do it alone. And now I’m learning that there’s actually people out there that are better than me and want to do the work. And so that’s that’s been a fun, fun realization too.

Josh Hall 15:38

I think what you hit on is kind of more so why I still think that is either the hardest or one of the challenging, most challenging points in a web designer, like a professional web business owner’s journey is the identity shift. And just like you, I have the same story. So most web designers do. Most web designers didn’t set out to start a true business. We just started website doing websites, enjoyed the work, loved our craft. Next thing you know, we got a business. We want to try to do it all ourselves. It’s a controlling industry anyway. We like our control, we like our creativity, we we like our DNA and all the designs. But you do get to a point where I think there is that realization, you had it in a different sense than I did of like, wow, this is becoming something much more than me, even though your name is the brand right now. But it’s also, yeah, it’s an identity shift of truly going from like, yeah, doing most all the things or a lot of the things to like overseeing the thing or casting vision. And it is a it’s a really big identity shift from creating a job essentially to creating a true business. Now that’s it.

Marc Hyde 16:39

And I know you talked about that with artillery media, the fact of most freelancers is just a different job and you’re just having to pay your own taxes now.

Josh Hall 16:47

Yeah, and there’s nothing wrong with that, by the way. Absolutely. Like I you should create, I think in most cases, unless you are savvy with the the skill sets and expertise of a business owner already, yeah, create a job, create your SOPs, create your style, create your services, figure out what you want to do, build a life of freedom, but then be prepared for the inevitable next stage, which I’ve just I don’t know. The reason I want to say that is not to discourage or disparage anyone from getting to that point, but I’ve noticed in five and a half years plus of coaching web design, almost six years now, that the new chapter starts right after that. And everyone I’ve seen get past that point, you’re past that point now, feels even more freedom than they did right then because you really bottleneck yourself. And I don’t know of a way out of it, honestly, unless you sell your business, sell your clients and pivot, or unless you charge such premium rates that you only take on very, very few and far between work. But I don’t really see anyone doing that now unless, like, once you start charging 20, 30, 40k for projects, you’re kind of a part-time employee for a business. And most people don’t want that.

Marc Hyde 17:59

So And that’s that’s where that awkwardness comes in too. Where, you know, I have a few maintenance plan clients that are I’ve I’ve had to train a little bit where it’s I don’t I I can’t just jump when you tell me to jump. Like I could if you pay me enough. Um, like, and I know Shannon Mattern talks about what’s what’s your jump rate of like if you had to drop everything and jump when they ask, what is that number you want them to pay? Um, I don’t know what that is yet, but there there are some clients I’ve had to teach like that where it’s like I’m not an employee, like you know, requests come in and then we manage them and take care of them, do like that. But a lot of that too is just upfront expectations that you got to set. And because, you know, clarity is kindness and people want to know what they are paying for, but more importantly, they have to know what they’re not paying for too. And if you want that premium touch, you want that premium white glove, you know, people don’t expect it unless you tell them. But if you don’t tell them nothing, people are gonna have their own, you know, unreasonable expectations. And when they go in with unreasonable expectations that are also not verbalized, then you’re just screwed.

Pricing That Broke Six Figures
Josh Hall 19:00

So before we get into kind of this new version, this next chapter for your business mark with 3.0, what would you say, like what price points and services did you build the foundation of your business on? Oh, like back in the day? Yeah, even going back to like, you know, 22 when when things got really serious. Was it mainly just 5k-ish websites with maintenance plans that were a certain price point? What what were like your what was your your core service that really built the foundation of what you have now?

Marc Hyde 19:32

Yeah, um, honestly, it was the there were two people in particular that it went very backwards compared to what a lot of them other ones did, where I was like, hey, we want to it was two two bloggers and content creators. And I was like, hey, rather than build out an entire blog now and then roll into a maintenance plan, why don’t we do this into phases where for phase one, it’s a lower amount. We, you know, build a very small foundation, and then every month we’ll just keep adding on top of that. And I had those both set at 500 bucks a month after the initial, I don’t remember what the setup was. And they honestly they still pay that to this day, almost four years later. And so I have two clients alone that I mean, I’ve rolled them into growth plans and we do more things for them now. Um, where I was like, hey, rather than, you know, let’s do like a 4,000 up front and 50 bucks a month, like I’ve done for some, hey, let’s go a little bit smaller and then go bigger from that. Um, but honestly, I would say the the ceiling broke at six figures, I would say, was when I started charging at bare minimum, like 25 to 3K for a website, like a very standard website. Um, and the most I ever charged up to that point in that area was probably like 6,500. But it was at that same time where, you know, I was doing white label work for a church marketing company. I know we talked about that in the pod. Um, white label work for another marketing company here in the area. And I’m like, all right, I I know what they are charging folks. And I don’t see that as like a mad way of like, I can’t believe you’re charging them this and then paying me half and blah, blah, blah. Like, nah, dude. It’s more the fact of like, oh, so if they’re paying this company AK and I’m getting half of that, why can’t I charge that when it’s my work, anyways? And then I had to figure out, okay, so what then allows people to charge that rate? What’s expected? How do you have those different, you know, agreements and arrangements? But, you know, even with that, like I’m my prices haven’t changed drastically that they’ve had the last few years, to be completely honest. Um, that being said, I’ve learned how to position uh different projects where like I do have a client and it was a 14K project. Now that was a you know big website, other big website, some some smaller one pagers as well that were just rebuilding for them. Um and but you know, I still need to make a case study for it. But we didn’t do anything on their website except take it from Wix to WordPress. We did better, you know, better words for the headers. We did uh better structure for HTML and you know, but we just got some things baked in better for schema. And we went from took them from page five to literally number one, like not page one, number one in three weeks. Only just some foundational SEO, which just very and we’re talking very basics. It was a kids’ ministry conference, and they’re like, we’re one of the biggest ones in the Midwest, and we don’t show up at all. I’m like, well, yeah, because your website doesn’t tell anything that you are that, so let’s lean into words. Um, and so you know, when when people expect results and then you start having bigger conversations of, oh, okay, so you want to have a ticketing platform that charges you $13,000 a year to do your all your big events. Well, we can just put it over here and do all these different things and then roll you into this and roll you into that. And so I become less of a, oh, Marcus, build us a website and more of like a what can we do to really position everything in such a way where it really does serve the business? And so I still sell $3,000 websites, $2,000 websites. Um a lot of my churches, my sweet spot around that $6,500 mark. Bloggers are more around that $4,000 mark. So we’re still not charging. Charging big agency prices, but I’m also able to do that because of who I’ve hired. Now how many projects we can take on, which is almost doubled. We can double the amount of or almost triple the amount of productivity we’re able to do. But then also, I would say about 90% of my clients sign on for a recurring uh plan in some way, shape, or form. And then they stay on that. In fact, I looked, dude, I looked at this yesterday. I’ve had eight people total leave a maintenance plan in some way, shape, or form over the last five years. Only eight people. And that’s, you know, now we got 60 something plus clients in some sort of, you know, monthly recurring revenues plan, whether it’s just hosting for cheap hosting maintenance supports or growth plan initiatives.

Josh Hall 23:47

Do you know the percentage between ish for people who you are just doing maintenance for versus hosting and maintenance? Oh, good question.

Marc Hyde 23:55

Let me let me pull up Notion really quick.

Josh Hall 23:57

Um you’ve seen you’ve seen the conversations in pro. There’s so many, it’s just such a not divisive, but there are there really are two camps. There are people who absolutely want to do the hosting and the maintenance. And then there are people who absolutely don’t want to do the hosting but do the maintenance.

Marc Hyde 24:14

Right. And

Hosting Versus Maintenance Plans
Marc Hyde 24:14

so hosting’s not that scary once you figure it out and you have a good host to do it. You know what I mean?

Josh Hall 24:21

I’m in the like, do the hosting because people will turn off maintenance.

Marc Hyde 24:24

And worse comes the worst. I mean, if they’re like, hey, we don’t know what to do, we’re losing money. I’m like, hey, we can roll you into just a hosting plan and you’re gonna pay the exact same rate that you’re going to, you know. If Psychron’s my host, I pay for their cloud. I’m in their cloud um hosting. In fact, I’m talking with Jake of Artillery Media right now of like, hey, here’s a here’s a thing I’m dealing with. I know you guys have like 10x what I have. How do you guys deal with this?

Josh Hall 24:47

So exactly. Yeah, I mean, that’s that’s a prime example at scale of an agency US 500. And they even say that Jake said when he was on the podcast a while ago, he’s like, what we really want is to host clients.

Marc Hyde 24:58

Yep, and that’s that’s mentally where I’m I’m almost at, almost there. Um, so I’ve had one client go from a hosting maintenance support plan down to just hosting. Um, and honestly, I’m also a big believer in if you build the website right, do you have to I I don’t know. Um, but he he’s a buddy of mine. His kids go to the same school. He he did my roof. I’ve been friends with him for forever. So we moved him down to just hosting instead of hosting maintenance and support. But the other clients, um, I hosted and maintained their website one, two, two. One company went out of business. The other ones were just uh no, three, three went out of business. Like like one went all AI, one went more specialized with their school, and then the other ones were just maintenance people. And they like I didn’t host their stuff, and they were yeah, they but again, it’s easy, it’s easy to turn that off if somebody doesn’t understand the value. They were cheaper, anyways. They were like my 50, my old plans of like 50 bucks a month or 60 bucks a month for for maintenance hosting and support. And so when I lost them. So I’m just curious, okay.

Josh Hall 26:01

I’m curious about like the current setup of the 60 plus sites that you’re hosting. Yep. Well, maintaining, supporting. We’ll call it supporting. Do you know the rough percentage of like how many are you hosting and maintenance versus just doing maintenance for?

Marc Hyde 26:14

Uh so the only I wish I had that number I could pull out. Is it kind of like just gut feeling? Is it kind of like a 50-50 thing? Oh, I don’t know. No, it’s it’s more like I would say 80% I host as well.

Josh Hall 26:26

Okay. Um price.

Marc Hyde 26:28

The only ones I don’t are more so like there’s a handful of bloggers that have like bigger, big scoop plans. Um, there’s a handful of websites where I actually got them from a bigger marketing agency in town um that works with like not kidding, like Visa. Oh, okay. Like we’re talking like like they don’t want to deal with the low, like the for them, the smaller clients, which I’m like, that’d be the biggest client I could ever rake in. You kidding me? Um, and so like some of them are hosted on like the hosting plan that they came with, no biggie. But you know, one company in particular, like I’ve built another three websites for that company and host those websites, or I brought them onto my host.

Josh Hall 27:05

So you’re doing doing a mix of like just hosting is more of a fallback kind of deal, maybe a unique situation. Ideally, you want to get hosting and maintenance, and you have some that are just maintenance for sounds like maybe 15, 20% of your clients. Yeah, and I would say maybe even if that maybe less. Yep. Um, and that is gonna happen for anyone who like says I will not support a site that I don’t host. I the only caveat to that is like I had some clients, I had a um a surgical, like a retina surgery place, and their website was on the same server as their HIPAA compliant stuff that had a client portal and they were like, we cannot have this hosted elsewhere. We have to host it here. So I was like, okay, I’ll absolutely do your maintenance and do the support. Um what has the price points of have evolved on that, or what what are the current price points?

Marc Hyde 27:53

Yeah, so for me, if if I do just hosting is 30 bucks a month. Like I know some folks like artillery and others will do like a 69 or 79 bucks a month plan. But for me, it’s easier to have a clean, harsh break of if you want me to just host it on the exact same on like you’d be paying SiteGround 30 bucks a month, anyways. Like that’s just a fact. So I’ll charge you 30 bucks a month. Now, if you’re a church or like not for profit, 25 bucks a month for just hosting. Um, but I don’t lead with those, those are my fallback plans. And based on conversations with folks, um, sometimes you you just know with talking with them where it’s like, hey, if I can just build your website and just host it, still better than nothing. Um, but then with the hosting, maintenance and support plan, that’s 99 bucks a month. Um, I used to do like, okay, if I’m not gonna host it, I’ll knock off like 10 bucks. But now it’s like, no, because I gotta deal with the headache of another host. Um, so that’s 99 bucks a month. And then recently I flipped to a um my uh I I’ll call it my complete plan. Um that’s 300 bucks a month. So I go from 900 nine, or sorry, 99 bucks a month all the way up to 299 a month, but that includes three hours of of work. Um, I pay for the advanced CDN, uh, pay for more security sweeps and that kind of stuff too. So like I do have a few people on that. Um, and I found that if I just offer it and put it in front of them, it’s like, hey, here’s the two options, here’s what you both get. Just pick. I’ve had a few people are like, yeah, give me that $300 a month plan. And I’m like, oh I don’t know if you needed it, but cool. But they also know that if they have a request, like they they shoot to the top of the list.

Josh Hall 29:28

Yeah, priority. Yep. Love having a priority plan for those who need it. Um the if you just do maintenance, is that still at the 99 range? Or would you customize? Okay.

Marc Hyde 29:38

Nope, 99 bucks a month. And I mean, the reason being, I mean, it’s still all the same stuff.

Josh Hall 29:42

I mean, sure, it I don’t mind because then it’s sometimes more work if you’re dealing with a crappy host or a different host you don’t know.

Marc Hyde 29:48

Like, I got like and I tell people where it’s like there’s I have three sites in particular where I’m like, look, I’ve done all I can to optimize it, but because you’re on a um Ryan’s with no daddy hosting plan, I can’t do anything else. Like, I mean, I I know how to optimize a website for those because I’ve had to deal with it in the past. Um, but that’s fine. But like most of my other clients are either like on rocket.net hosting or big scoots hosting, which are fantastic, fantastic people to work with. So um, yeah, but it’s it’s more the fact of they just have me in their corner to like I’m the one making the support tickets with Big Scoots or talking with SiteCround or whoever.

Josh Hall 30:25

So version one, mainly just building websites, version 2.0

The $99 Plan And $300 Priority
Josh Hall 30:29

of your business. Oh no, version one was everything.

Marc Hyde 30:31

Social media, like it was just it pays the bills. Number two was like, we are a web design company.

Josh Hall 30:37

Gotcha. And then really that focus that like, you know, wake up at 3 a.m. sweating bullets, thinking, God, what am I gonna do? Got kids to feed. Yep. The idea of recurring revenue sounds very good once those moments hit, as every one of us has some degree of like, oh, I need some recurring revenue. Um, so that’s freaking awesome. And I believe that’s where I came in. Did you go through my maintenance plan course before joining Pro? I’m trying to remember.

Marc Hyde 31:00

Maintenance Plan course was the first one I did. In fact, I listened to that on my way back from East Tennessee uh that when I went down to propose to Beth. So that would have been end of 2021, my birthday, 2021.

Josh Hall 31:13

Oh, wow. I didn’t realize it went that far back. Almost six years. Almost six years. Wow, that’s freaking awesome. So you just did the one off maintenance plan course, which I’m actually currently revamping right now.

Marc Hyde 31:26

And then after that, I did the I paid for the SEO course. I did I don’t know, I didn’t pay for that. I did that one inside a pro, I think. Um, I don’t know, man. The days are long and the years are short sometimes. So it’s hard for me to do that. I know.

Josh Hall 31:37

I mean, it gets all muddy because I did have one-off courses only, and then I had them available and pro and I want to say I did the one-off course when it was on uh was you use Lifter, right?

Marc Hyde 31:48

Lifter LMS back in the day. And you learn Dash with WooCommerce and all that kind of stuff. So yeah, that was that was the OG course.

Josh Hall 31:56

Okay, yeah, I do recommend Lifter. Yeah, if I were to build on WordPress, of course, I would do Lifter for sure. Um so that’s freaking awesome. What an honor to be kind of not coaching you in that capacity, but guiding you in that way, just you know, from a distance with the course. But then you built your business up to a much more like stable foundation. I’m kind of curious. Before did you have growth plans in between the 22 and 2024 time frame? Do you know? Or was it mainly just doubling down on being a web designer and then support plans?

Marc Hyde 32:32

No, I did. Um, I actually I have because I was working, I was I’m working on for another presentation too. So I have like all my contractors when I signed them all up. Um so no, I first started offering growth plans in 2023, actually. So that’s my signed on my first SEO client. And that’s was um so and and so for full full story, I joined another program. Um dare do you, Mark? Well, you know, then I came over to you. So, and I’m still here. And so I I joined another program um mainly, mainly because it was a not web design, but more like here’s how you can offer these specific services to clients. And so um I got my monies back from it. So that was fantastic. Was that Lee’s stuff? That was yeah, I didn’t want to say so. That was double that’s like Lee’s great, yeah. Lee Blue, yeah. My double stack trophy. Oh, yeah, you’re double stack cool. And so they’ve been my longest long-term client for a lot of things with topping dental, is is what I was able to use using his tools to get into that growth plan. And gotcha, but I I didn’t lead with like I’m a local SEO guy, I can do this. It was more of um, I I started doing their maintenance and support, they would give me different questions, and I said, um, like, hey, is there more I can do? And then they asked the question back of, well, what can you do? Because we want to do this. And then she’s the the at that time, the office administrator was the dentist’s wife. Um, and she was like, Hey, why don’t you just come in and let’s talk about what what Brian wants to do and get it done. Um, and then that’s when I said, Okay, then I built the review request engine. We replied to all their reviews, we do blog post writing for them, we’re building out bigger, better, badder pages. Um, with my two big time SEO clients, like I’ve rebuilt their websites. Like I’ve rebuilt one from Duda to WordPress, and we’re building them a new website now. Um, kind of one of those things where I’m like, you know, why keep building new pages when we just need to build a better website for better conversions? Um and so we’re doing that. But yeah, so so I offered the SEO plan, not with a I want to do SEO plan, so I’m gonna sell it, but really just what do you need? And then I built the plan around it. And so like that’s kind of how I built it.

Josh Hall 34:36

More of a back end high-ticket offer versus leading as more of like a digital marketing cogency trust.

Marc Hyde 34:42

Yeah, honestly, dude, I still don’t push local SEO and I don’t push those other SEO stuff. Um, and so if you want to learn about that, talk to Sam.

Josh Hall 34:48

Well, and we’ve gone, we’ve gone, we’ve had a lot of conversations over the last couple of years with your growth about that as and it’s so common where I feel like people feel the urge, and this is great for some people, but not for others, where yeah, that you lead with a specific approach, whether it’s local SEO or whether it’s digital marketing and websites are a big part of that offer, but it’s more about like growth plans and marketing plans. And what those growth plans? Oh, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. Well, I was just gonna say, you’re you still fit a very like, I feel I sense a confidence in you now compared to where to where you were last year, because you were really thinking, like, should I go like high-end paid discovery and just serve less clients and do all the things? But I think you even got to the point where you’re like, you know, and I don’t know if it was the conversation with Jake with Artillery Media, but you’re like, I want to mainly be a web agency. I want to build sites that are freaking awesome, highly converted. I want to host and maintain them, and I want to have marketing services to some degree, whether it’s SEO or whether the blog stuff or content for the clients who need that and kind of qualify that. And I feel like you found your sweet spot, man, with your.

Marc Hyde 35:53

And I feel it too. And so, like

Growth Plans Through SEO And Ads
Marc Hyde 35:54

with these growth plan stuff, it’s one of those things where I found that once I removed the term grow off my website, and when I removed that I had those abilities, a lot of people are like, ooh, I don’t just want a web. And this is what’s helped me with AI is oh, I don’t want just a website. I want to actually get found online. So I found where if I keep those words, I do growth plans, we can build these out, we can do SEO things. Honestly, that’s helped me with a lot of deals as well. Whereas the fact of like, look, we’re gonna build the website, we’re gonna maintain, support it. And yes, I’m gonna build it where it will grow. You will get better, bigger, better clients. Because one of those things where, you know, if you build it, will they come? No, not necessarily, but you got to build it right for them to come too. And so, but then if you want to take those growth plan initiatives, we can do that as well.

Josh Hall 36:42

And so you said so you do you meant you said that when you remove the growth terms that that help is, but so you actually vice versa, you actually do say growth on your plans, right? Yep.

Marc Hyde 36:54

And so, but on most quotes, like like I found that a lot of businesses will do better if they just run Google Ads rather than, you know, we’re gonna do a blog post all the time, we’re gonna do new landing pages, we’re gonna do this, where it’s like, no, if we just put like a wildlife company, right? Like, I got a raccoon in my attic, I need to call somebody. Like, yeah, we build a lot of good content around that, but what makes sure he is always up there at number one? It’s Google Ads. And for him, that has rev, I mean, he’s now brought on a couple full-time people. He has an office worker picking up the phone. And so, like, we’re driving, we’re we’re getting him leads. Like, he is being successful because of that. And I found that a lot of people where I say, like, you know, we are a um, we are Google ads certified, Mark High Creative is. I’m not, but the people I white label are um Lori over at Web Shine and uh with um Lori, who’s who I always talk with, um, but with uh like Pathfinder SEO and Lindsay. Yeah, Lindsay. And so like I white label with them and she handles all of it with reports and everything. I mean, we’re still building pages and and having conversations with strategy around it, but you know, that’s that’s the that’s one of the main growth I always put on the on the quote. So I would send over the proposal. Here’s how much it’s gonna be. Um, here’s the after launch options that you have. And then we also have growth plan options as well. And so in the in the quote I give, I always give these parameters of like, we can grow this if you want, you just gotta do it. But if I get the growth plan client, like that’s cool, but I I I want the hosting maintenance support. That’s my goal. Yeah, and so I’ve even taken on different projects, bro, where I’ve rebuilt their entire website on my tool stack for free on my server to get them into host like a full-time hosting maintenance and support plan.

Josh Hall 38:38

I do love that you’ve kept them separate too, because as you know, people I’ve said this time and time again. People will turn on and off and ramp up and down marketing services. Yep. But you never they’re never gonna turn their website off unless they are done with business. So the hosting and basic support needs to be separate. I love that you’ve continued to play around and add new services and tweak your offers inside my my framework of build support grow. It just I just see it work time and time again to different degrees. But you’re you’re at an established place in business where I feel like you’ve been able to confidently uh create some growth plans that are worth I know it’s not perfect yet, they’re still evolving, but you’ve really figured out I feel like a sweet way to build awesome converting sites, host and maintain and support them, and then have those growth options for all those. I’m curious to this point, Mark, like if you could just off the top of your head guesstimate the percentage of those those three main services again in those buckets, is it kind of like a 3030-30 split, would you say, as far as revenue total? Or is there one that’s like a big chunk of your revenue lifetime?

Marc Hyde 39:47

You know, that’s a good question. So I here, let me let me let me do fast math here. So if I do I want to say it’s about 55% on web design projects, like brand new projects, and then 45% of them are recurring revenue. And and and I mean, you know, we’ll just call it what it’s like. I’m a multi-six figure company. And so 55% of our revenue comes from new projects, 45% comes from ongoing. Now, inside of that ongoing, we would be looking. Let’s see. This is where it’s hard because some of my clients pay me for their ad spend, and then the ad spend goes in my credit card, and then I get the credit card points for it. Um, so that’s that’s always fun. So so I would say probably about 25% of that is growth plan stuff, and 75% is just hosting maintenance and support. So I like that’s like it is a good make or break when it comes to those ongoing marketing clients for SEO. Like they do add a lot to my bottom line. Don’t don’t get me wrong there. But I like having just a few of my clients be in the growth plan because I mean, here’s the deal at the end of the day. For growth plan stuff, you have to be proactive as an agency. Whereas hosting, maintenance, and support, I’m proactive in what I set up and my security measures, but then everything else is reactive, is just what do you need me to do? And so, like churches will say, like, like I got one church client right now where I’m hopefully rolling them into that $300 a month plan instead of the the $99 a month because they’re wanting to update their websites, but they’re giving me the content, they’re giving me the copy. We’re not designing, we’re not thinking. Um, we’re just doing. And, you know, like I get a lot of emails where it’s like, like, hey, we found that for some reason this book now button is going to our old CRM, not the new one. Okay, cool, we’ll fix that. Um, hey, we are trying to do this, we’re trying to do that. But at the end of the day, I’m not doing the thinking. I’m not doing the proactive, hey, we can try to do this, we can try to do this, we can try to do that. Now, there are some clients where, I mean, because you know, I want to see these people succeed, where I do that. Like I sent an email to a camp who just wrapped up their summer camp year and said, Hey, how did the summer go? Like, are are you are you finding that there were questions you were asked all the time that we can put on the website? Um, what programs do we need to put onto the website now? Um, give me those, like, what do we need to do for next year’s camp numbers? Like, send all that stuff to me and we’ll we’ll update everything. But again, that’s more of just a prompt. Like, I’m not actively doing and thinking and responsible for the growth. I’m just responsible for making sure the website stays up, making sure it stays secure. When, you know, like the uh I don’t know if I don’t know if you saw all the fluent form spam happen that like people like they were actually getting hacked and sites were getting hacked. Two of mine got severely hacked and I had to fix all that. So um I would rather do that and be responsible, like like just like responsive rather than being proactive, because then as those requests come in, now I either just forward it on to my my developer assistant, um, and she takes care of it, or you know, I I do it myself based on what her capacities are right now.

Josh Hall 42:55

So really the past few years to get to this multi-six figure level with

Revenue Mix And Proactive Work
Josh Hall 42:59

your business, I think you’re close enough to the to the percentages where we could probably simplify and say, like, you’re getting about half of your business, 50% with new website builds, 25%-ish support maintenance and hosting plans, and then another 25% growth and marketing plans with SEO ads, yeah, somewhere in there. What does are you happy with that, Mark? This next version of your business 3.0. I know we’re gonna because I really want to dig into how you how you started to scale a little more and build your team, but I’m kind of curious, would you in the future like to see those percentages be different? Or do you like that? Do you like those percentages?

Marc Hyde 43:40

I’m happy. I’m content. Like we’re, you know, the kids are the kids are supportive. We’re doing fine. And and Beth and I, and this was this was uh DM me tell you what our our plans are. Let’s do it. Yeah, give me the BHAG.

Josh Hall 43:52

Give me the big hairy audacious goal.

Marc Hyde 43:54

The goal I wrote down uh a couple weeks ago, and Beth even brought it up, was I only want to work four work four-day work weeks. That’s the goal. No five days, four days. And that’s the big goal. That’s the goal.

Josh Hall 44:05

Because I thought you were gonna want to hit a million.

Marc Hyde 44:07

Oh, not yet. That’d be dope. That’d be dope. Uh no, but because what does that mean? That means I have to be hands-off in a lot of things. But and for me to still go and speak at events, for me to still go and like, you know, always do marketing, always doing these things, having all these conversations, for me to say I’m going to just be gone for an entire day from my desk is huge because I tend to not do that. Um, I’m normally on all the time. And so for me to do that, that would mean I have to rely on my team. And then from there, my team has to learn to communicate to them, to each other versus through me. And so could I eventually get and not just like four days, because some people are like, Oh, yeah, we’re doing 10 hour, 10 hour days, four day work weeks. No, like I some days I only work six hours a day. So if I’m only doing four weeks, like that’s like a 25 hour week some weeks.

Josh Hall 44:57

I was gonna say you’re actually probably on mentally all the time, but I I wonder if like you I don’t know if I don’t know. Doesn’t sound like you’re probably actually. Like 40 hours behind your desk per se.

Marc Hyde 45:08

No, not necessarily. Just because we’re always doing things. And so, but normally what happens is like uh let’s say I go speak at the kids’ chapel, right? And so like they’re at the Christian school down the road. If I speak at their chapel, I’m gone all morning. Well, I normally make up for that and work at night, or I’ll have my computer open and do this, that, the other, which I mean, thankfully, Beth doesn’t mind if I tinker my computer at night because if we’re both just unwinding, she’s like, What’s the difference if you’re unwinding with the book versus your computer open? Like, yeah, for her, she’s like, as long as when I need you, I need you. So yeah.

Josh Hall 45:36

And especially with you with your schedule with that many kids and your guys’ schedule, it’s probably more a matter of like just reducing hours per week versus like set day, unless you did want to have like a dedicated day off.

Speaker 3 45:47

Right, right.

Marc Hyde 45:47

And so that’s the goal is to not work Fridays eventually. And then if there’s other days where I have to be gone, like, you know, Lennox, he has a surgery here in a couple of next week, next Wednesday down at Riley, like I will let my clients know, like it’s totally okay. But I just know in my head, like, yeah, that’s just a day I take off. And so it’s more so, and I know it doesn’t sound like a big pivot, but it causes a big pivot because now all of a sudden I can’t be a bottleneck. I have to be able to step out. And so we’re working on training clients where now when I forward a message on to uh Malin, my my developer, she has access to her email at support at markide.com. She lets the clients know, hey, I finished it up, review it, let me know if you have any more changes. So some of my clients now, like I go into that email or go into Notion. I’m like, holy crap, they’ve had like 10 email correspondes this week. Like they’re they’re talking. Like, I don’t even know what’s going on over there, which is great. Um, and Maylin does a really great job. I mean, she always is updating Notion, so I can always go in there and just see what notes she did and what she didn’t do. And um, we’re talking inside of Slack and things like that too. Um, and so, but now the goal eventually is going to be is can I pull myself out of even more? Because like right now I have a designer that designs things. He packages up, sends it based on my prompts and my words. But I’m trying to be like, okay, can I give you know Aubrey more writing? Can I give Malin or more development and more ownership of that? So it really is changing, dude, from just freelancer to founder. Like that’s the uh thing that I’m positioning. And, you know, we’re even have the conversations of now of like, you know, I’ve I’ve talked about this before, where it’s like I was a pastor for for many, many years. And by me doing this, am I able to step back into a um not a necessarily paid, I don’t care about that, but can I step into a role back into a local church where they do require more of me, where I can have the business do what it needs to do and then do what I love to do with church life. And can I somehow marry those two where we’re creating a life for us that honestly is not possible for most people? And so can I do it where the business funds our life and our lifestyle, you know, but I’m able to be a dad to eight kids. Um, there are five of six of them have special needs, so we’re dealing with a lot that people don’t see behind the scenes, not even just physically, but a lot of emotions and mental stuff that we’re dealing with too. And so, you know, I’m able to be present for those different things. So, you know, we’re we’re we’re just trying that. So I know that’s not like a big revolutionary, like, holy crap, Mark 4.0 is what everybody’s doing online these days. Yeah, but for me, it’s huge because all of a sudden Mark Kai Creative is my business. And that’s scary to say is I I I own the business, I don’t run the business.

Josh Hall 48:27

That’s no, no, I it’s great, it’s great. I apologize for being, I didn’t mean to be little that goal. I I was expecting something different, but now as I hear you talk about that, it makes total sense because it is a big shift. And I I do so that’s on me. Apologies, Mark. No, you’re good.

Marc Hyde 48:41

And money is not the goal. Like, I mean, I could always get more money, like I can get more clients and do more things, but it’s like, you know, what’s what’s your tag? Free of money. Yeah, yeah.

Josh Hall 48:51

No, but it’s it’s so funny. Like, yeah, like in a lot of ways, it’s actually a bigger goal than than maybe hitting like seven figures just because it is

The Four Day Workweek Goal
Josh Hall 49:00

a it’s not just a like marketing goal or a promotion goal or a hustle goal. It’s actually like a life, it is a true lifestyle goal. It’s a lifestyle challenge.

Marc Hyde 49:09

It’s the first time I’ve done this. Everything else has been monetary goals or uh this many client goals, or like I like I’m still building Christian School websites, so I’d love to get that to a point where that’s becoming its own machine. And so um we’re we’re gonna double down a little bit more on that this this upcoming year. And so it’s it literally is the first time I’ve had a lifestyle goal where it’s like, what type of life do we want to live? Because I mean, I got a freshman of high school now, bro. Like holy crap! Like I got a uh my son who’s I remember when he was like, you know, a little baby beeping around the church, and all of a sudden, like he’s a fifth grader now. Like, holy crap, what is happening? And so just being able to still live a life and be present with my kids, be present with my community, be present with anything I want to be present with, I’m able to do that. And and I don’t want to be a marketing bro where it’s like, you know, I made eight figures working five hours this week. It’s like, nah, dude, like that’s that’s that’s not the game. That’s not the goal.

Josh Hall 50:04

Well, what’s cool about that too is I like that you’re almost giving yourself a bit of a challenge, just because, like, in order to do that, you you kind of verbalize the right question, which is like, what does my business have to look like in order to do that? Because I, and the reason I almost felt like it wasn’t that big of a goal is just because I feel like with the infrastructure you have in place, it’s so doable. So, like part of me is super pumped because I actually think you’re gonna be able to, with with just a little bit of leverage on a few things that you have in place, you could absolutely do that. The the challenge I gave you in pro, I think it was last year, which I know we’ve talked about, not on the podcast here, but I just for those who weren’t in Web Presenter Pro on the coaching call we did, I told Mark, like, you know what? I think you should give yourself a goal of not logging into WordPress for you know what did I tell you? I probably told you a long time.

Marc Hyde 50:56

I don’t remember how long it was. I think it said a month. Like, don’t log into WordPress for a month. And I’m like, oh boy. And yeah, that’s still hard because like a lot of my projects, it’s still my developer might take it from you know 0% to 80%, but I still get it that final 20. So it’s yeah, it’s hard, bro. Like that one sounds terrifying.

Josh Hall 51:15

That that’s a big that’s a big one. That’s like the true BHAG goal right there. But the more like moderate version to start off with is for sure, like a day or two days. Or to your point, like try out a week or two of you’re off on Fridays completely. You are piece out what in the team, like honestly, unless there’s a an absolute emergent situation. I could confidently tell you most everything in your agency with the team you have in place and a few support parameters ready to go to put out a rare fire, you should be fine until that following Monday. Again, unless there’s like an emergent hack or something. But that is a great way to start, which is it’s a good challenge. Like you it doesn’t mean you need to stick with it forever. This is just a general rule of coaching I’ve learned. It’s like if you really want to get to the next level, try it out. You don’t need to commit to something forever. Like in your case, Mark, obviously, you know, this week you’re not stopping working on Fridays, but maybe it’s one week out of the month you don’t work on Friday. Then it’s two Fridays out of the month you don’t work, and you just kind of work up to it, which again, yeah, I just think you’re gonna kill it, dude.

Marc Hyde 52:21

With the Yeah, but that’s that’s the goal, bro, is just and it’s hard for me to say that because I I don’t like the idea of someone profiting off someone else’s work by not doing anything, but at the same time, I am doing something. It’s just a mental shift and a mental pivot, is is really what it comes down to. And it causes me to have to get things out of my head and onto paper and have hard conversations and and and actually be a business owner and a manager, not just the doer. So, like that’s that’s hard to do for me because I’m a I’m a doer. I’m a I’m an owner operator by default.

Josh Hall 52:57

The thing is, I’ve thought about this mindset a lot. That’s so what a timely thing you said there, which is that feeling of like I’m almost gonna feel bad about like not doing as much work and making more money, potentially. Actually, you probably will, especially because the work you will be doing will be the high-level tasks, it will be the sales, it will be the vision, it will be the things that no one else in your team can do because they’re not the CEO, they’re not the founder, they’re not the owner. The thing I think about that with that mindset though, is again another lawn thought I had. There’s our new podcast. We’ll start to get our lawn thoughts. Lawn thoughts with Josh. I was just thinking about that this month because I’ve actually had like that’d be a funny series for LinkedIn. Uh-huh. I had the same thought though, dude, where it was like, I had like a really good August, and I don’t actually feel like I like we’ve taken at least one to two days off a week, just enjoying the summer and going to the zoo and stuff and doing activities. And part of me had that same thought where it’s like, how did I have such a good month? This sounds douchey, but I’ve just it’s not all the months, but we just happened to have a really good month and I worked a lot less. But like, you know what? It’s because of the amount of absolute hard hustle that I’ve done over the years that has put me into the position to be able to do this. And that is the the change there. Also, I think about it like a farmer, like a farmer who works really hard in the seasons where you need to plant and see and do all the work. I don’t know if that farmer is sitting back and selling a lot through the winter and thinking, I feel terrible about myself because I’m not doing work right now. No, they’re probably sitting back thinking, like, I deserve a damn break because I worked my freaking butt off for these months. So I think that’s the mindset shift there, man. And yeah, I just want to give you the encouragement that I’ve wrestled with myself because I’m of this of the same blue-collar mold where like we like put our work boots on and stay busy. That’s it, Midwest. That’s it, man. Yeah, it’s Midwest. But you will work. You’re just it doesn’t need to all be in your current capacity in your business. So I love this message, man, because I think it is important, especially for those who are truly moving, like you have, from freelancer, solopreneur to founder to owner. And that is a shift. And I think there’s just such a narrative, not only in our culture, but just all cultures around people who own a business to where, and I mean, I had this too, where it’s like, oh wow, it must be nice to be the boss and you know, not work as hard as I am. But you know what? That boss worked way harder than I knew for years to create the opportunity for me to work a certain amount and to not have to worry about the stress or the pressure or the overhead or everything else that is going on there that I didn’t even know about. So And that’s it.

Marc Hyde 55:51

What’s funny though is I never had those thoughts with my bosses because I’m like, they’re the boss. Like that’s just how it is. Like I want to work and like I was built to work. And then and then, you know, then I got Beth tripping in and she’s like, So if you think that way, why do you think nobody else in this world thinks that way? It’s like, yeah, you’re right. You’re right.

Josh Hall 56:07

Well, I think it’s probably stem from my Drew. Beth’s always right. It probably stemmed from my my cabinet making days when I was working in the shop because there was a very, it was almost like a class uh of like you were either uh a warehouse guy or you were an office guy. You were the blue collar, white collar. And because I was working in the blue-collar realm, I just looked like at the the white-collar people like they just weren’t working as hard or they weren’t working as much, or because they were just sitting at a desk, obviously they couldn’t be working as hard as me, building cabinets or taking trash out or cleaning bathrooms and everything else I was doing. But I realized mental work is so different than hand work. And they’re both so important, and sometimes it’s in conjunction. But yeah, man, I just I don’t know. I don’t know if you need any encouragement on that front. But that mindset, which is what you you’ll get into even deeper, is like the work that you will do is so high value at this level that it is going to make opportunities for so many, not only current team, but future team. It’s gonna make so much opportunity for your clients and and their growth. And it will all stall, it will all stop if you just go back to that mindset of like, oh, I you know, I feel bad about making more working less, because it’s like the work you are doing is at such a high level at that point that no one, again, no one else can do in your business. So anyway, which is true, which is true.

Marc Hyde 57:37

And and hopefully, you know, I’m just thinking through like the high points that we’ve hit so far on the pod, where it’s just we always joke in pro calls that like if Mark’s up on a call, make Mark go last because Mark will take the whole call just talking with Josh for funsies. Um, but was there anything that we need to hit still in this episode to

Why Join Pro And Build Support
Marc Hyde 57:54

help your listeners where it’s just like what we need to do?

Josh Hall 57:57

So I think it’s probably because you really got to that point where you started to kind of scale up your business. I’m curious, I really what what is the current well, okay, before we look at the team structure today, I think it’d be a great way to just kind of put a put a cap on where your business is at today with the multi-six figure range. But I’m personally curious, why did you join Pro at that point in January 2024? You had a a bit, I mean, obviously I established some trust for you when the maintenance plan course. I know at that point, you know, you at that point you joined. I remember you telling me like your maintenance plan was a a huge percentage of your business at that point, even with limited goals.

Marc Hyde 58:36

It was over half at that point.

Josh Hall 58:37

Over half at that point. But you had done League Blues program, which I Ali’s a good friend of mine, he’s awesome. But what but what made you join Pro? What was I’m just personally curious, like what was what was the gap that needed to be filled at that point for you?

Marc Hyde 58:51

You know, I I wish I knew what episode it was. Because I remember like I signed up after listening to an episode, and then I think you might have done it live on YouTube that that I watched, and I signed up, and I signed up so fast that because I was just ready, because you know, I was a long time, long time listener, long time stalker, and then I was like, all right, I just need to do this. Where I signed up before you could even mention what the coupon code was. And I had to email you to be like, um, yeah, bro, I I didn’t even hear the coupon code before I signed up. So uh can we can we uh backfield that a little bit? And we did. Um, but the biggest thing for me was I knew that I was stuck at a ceiling and I wanted my ceiling to become my floor. And I know that’s very metaphysical to say that, very just you know, what woo-hoo, whatever. But I hit the same revenue mark twice. And I was stuck for a little bit at one price, uh, one income ceiling. I think it was like 30K. And then Lee helped me get that up. And then my first year with Pro, it was a lot of like I got up to like I’ll say numbers, I got to 75 a year. And then the next year was a lot of rebuilding and a lot of restructuring of the business. And um, because at that time I was still going back and forth on is this just a you know, a layover business? Am I gonna go back into corporate? And so, like, I in those years I interviewed with a couple companies, got all the way to the job offer and went, nah, I can’t do that. Like, why would I do that for you? And knowing what I can make, or I could work at home and know that I’ll like I can still do these things. Um, and you know, I get to the end and I’m like, okay, so why would I do all of the same work for other people when I could just do it for myself? And so the reason why I joined Pro was I knew I needed to make a certain dollar amount in order to take care of our family. I knew in this age where we were going, six figures had to be the goal, like no questions asked. But the biggest thing for my family is at that time, seven kids, then going into eight kids, it I had to be at a place where I was able to be there for the family. And I didn’t want to get sucked into the hustle culture. I didn’t want to get sucked into the 80-hour a week culture that you know so many entrepreneurs say you have to do to get there. Um, I feel like there is a bit of a an awkward swing there right now on TikTok and Instagram where people are like, you don’t need to work 80 hours, you only need to work 20. It’s like, nah, homie, there is something called the sprint mode where you gotta sprint. Like there were a couple, couple years there where I sprinted hard, uh, really, really hard. Um, but the main reason why I joined Pro was twofold. Number one is I knew I needed someone to keep me accountable with where I was at and where I needed to go and walk me in that journey and knew all the different things. Um, because honestly, Beth needed didn’t need to take those hits. Like Beth didn’t run need to run a business. Beth didn’t need to hear me grumble and complain and process different things. She wanted me to be her husband. She wanted me to be, you know, dad to our kids, not a business partner where that’s all I’m talking about at the table. Um, I needed someone else to talk to. And so I needed someone to come alongside, support me in that, and go, yeah, dude, like I’ve I know where you’re at. Let’s get to the next level. Um, and so that’s that’s the main reason why I joined was I’m like, okay, if I could join this program, knowing that I could break a ceiling and turn that ceiling into a floor, why the heck not? And then, you know, once we we got to it, it was a lot of compounding interests, a lot of hard work, hard days, figuring things out and having conversations on um hot seats and you know, even just having a place where I can be like, hey, I’m thinking about this idea and this project. What do you think? And then you telling me, no, Mark, don’t chase the shiny object. Okay. Um, and then put that in the back burner. And so, you know, stuff with my Christian schools, like, I’ve been doing that now for five years. And, but you’ve always told me like and helped me pivot a couple different key moments of like, okay, don’t chase that rabbit yet, because that’s there’s this is gonna sound really bad, but it’s like there’s no money in that yet. And your kids need to eat. So stop chasing what looks fun right now and do the hard work to get paid. And then once you get paid, then you can do some fun work. So that’s that’s really why I joined. Um and the reason why I haven’t left is it’s like I don’t want to lose my friends. I don’t want to lose my friends. And it’s it’s funny where it’s like, you know, I view you as one of my good close friends, and we’re both, you know, we we have very similar needs with our kids with some special needs that they are dealing with. Like we’re we’re in the GTube unit. GTube like we’re here, and but it’s funny where it’s like, yeah, um, a lot of my friends I have to pay to be friends with them um because of the community that was built. And it’s just it’s a beautiful place. It really is cool. And I’m part of other different communities that are teaching me other different things as well. Um, but when it came to establishing Mark High Creative as just a I’m Mark and I do freelance work into like, no, we got to turn this into a business. That’s that’s why I joined. And I mean, I’m I’m a living testament of what three years later, like we made it.

Josh Hall 1:03:47

You did, dude. You you live, like I said earlier, you you won. You you it’s kind of like what gets you here doesn’t get you there. You had the revenue goal and the hustle push when you needed it to get to the business to this point, but now you are at a different season. Now the point is time back. The the the next challenge, the next ceiling for you. I love that term,

Support Goes To Team Strategy To You
Josh Hall 1:04:14

ceiling to floor. You just I feel like you’re like your head is into this new this new floor, and the next ceiling is yeah, one less day of the floor.

Marc Hyde 1:04:23

But here’s different though, bro, is with you, I don’t that I I feel like it’s not so much a ceiling now where it’s more of like a do you want to climb this staircase or not? And I don’t have to, like I could be totally content and doing the business the exact same way with having my team, which my team still are extensions of me. Like, you know, they don’t necessarily jump until I tell them to jump, like not in a bad way, but just like they don’t know unless I tell them what I need done. And so right now they’re all like mini marks, like mini, mini versions of me. And I’m trying really hard to get some of them up to a place where it’s like, no, like you can talk to Mark, but you really want to talk to Malin about this because Malin will get that done for you. Like, Mark will get it done at some point, but like, you know, if I need help with my website or I’m trying to update this or I need to get these changes done, it’s like, why would I go to Mark? I can just go to Malin because Malin’s gonna take care of it for me. Like, that’s that’s the goal where I’m trying to get toward.

Josh Hall 1:05:19

The the analogy that I’ve been using that I think is really applicable for you, dude, is I’ve just been really into the civil war here recently. Yeah, you have, bro. I’m surprised you didn’t go the smoking route, smoking meat route. Right. Uh what I was gonna say is like you you started out as the soldier on the front line, and then you know, you became a lieutenant and got to go in the back row, and then you became a captain, and then you became a colonel who’s on the horse, and you’ve got, you know, a line of four or five, you know, lines of guys in front of you now. I feel like you’re becoming the general. And like you’re you’re really moving like a couple layers back to where over the next little while here, my next challenge, uh, you know, heads up, no surprise. The next challenge for you is gonna be that you don’t have like any initial support coming your way. Doesn’t mean that you’re completely removed from clients and stuff at this point, but I think over the next while, however long this next iteration of your business is gonna be, is to really get to you to the point where you support is not even in your job description.

Marc Hyde 1:06:19

And that’s that’s that’s what we’re working toward right now. And so we’ve put up systems and um I can I can even put this inside a pro about like what softwares I’m doing when support requests come in, how those are managed, how those are. That’d be great. Yeah, let’s hot seat.

Josh Hall 1:06:31

Do you want to do a hot seat? Yeah, we can definitely do that.

Marc Hyde 1:06:33

In fact, I’m doing a training in Austin’s freelance cake community on Monday about all of this, about how let’s yeah.

Josh Hall 1:06:38

So we’re it’s really timely too, just because I’m I’m in the middle of revamping the uh the maintenance plan course, this next version of it. And I’m gonna be doing, yeah, like really just getting a feel for like what is everyone using for support? What are the lines of communication look like? So that could be super timely. I’d love to absolutely, bro.

Marc Hyde 1:06:56

That’d be that’d be a heck of a lot of fun. And so and that’s that’s the goal right now is like, can I do this? And this is the way I’ve always done it is let’s do it same with same with growth plans and SEO. Can Can we do this with a few clients? And okay, let’s work out the kinks and then you know, conversations with Maylon by like, okay, so what’s working well? And I’ve done that already, where it’s like, okay, here’s how it’s set up. How do you want it to work? And then she said, I want it to work this way because I think this would work best. I’m like, all right, cool. And now we’re going down that path. And then um, at the top of next month, I’m gonna follow back and be like, all right, how do you feel like things are working? Do we want to do it? Do we want to push it harder? Do we want to push more? Um, so that way the idea would be is like, okay, so if you have just a request that’s just a hey, we need this done, go to this email. And I mean, if you email me, that’s cool. I’m just gonna forward it on anyways. It’s just gonna take an extra day potentially for you to get that in the queue. Um, but then if you need to like have a conversation around here’s what we’re trying to do, and we don’t know what to ask. And so now we’re getting to the strategy mindset, which, you know, I’ve I told all my maintenance plane clients, like, yeah, if you want to talk about that, absolutely, it’s because that leads into other business avenues. So I don’t want to do the whole, you know, like, oh, you got a quarter, because I tried that, it didn’t work. People don’t want to have a scheduled time. It’s more the fact of when they have a problem, they want to know, can I click a button, schedule a call, and talk to you? And my clients all can’t. And so if they want to talk with me, and again, not like in a like, you know, ivory tower versus in the field worker, but more the fact of if you want something done fast and you it’s just a really quick request, just send it to Maylin. She’ll take care of it. But if you have a question about it and you’re trying to figure some different things out, yeah, go to me. I’ll email you back and forth, and then I’ll kick it to Maylin.

Josh Hall 1:08:31

Yeah, support goes to Maylon, strategy goes to you.

Marc Hyde 1:08:34

And that’s that’s the divide that that I’m working on right now.

Josh Hall 1:08:37

You made it, Mark. Super exciting, dude. Like, and that’s what that’s what’s cool about where you are now. Again, you went from like money goal when that needed to be the goal, quite frankly, in order to get to freedom goal. Yep. So now it’s like, okay, I have a killer established business. You have some wiggle room and some leeway to play around and maybe add Christian school websites as its own product-tized brand and see where that wants, you know, see where you want to take that. But then yeah, like you have all you have the foundation built to be able to pull yourself back and get a couple layers back. So that’s the next step, man. And obviously, you know, I’m the cool thing about that too, I know you came into pro for coaching, stayed for the community, which is what a lot of people say, hurts my feelings, but it’s fine. It’s the reality. But I do appreciate that you’ve continued to trust me with coaching because now that I’ve grown in this area too, I feel like I feel like I’m a way better coach for you where you’re at now, even compared to where I was in the beginning of 2024, for sure. Like I like mainly, especially with our mastermind group and and pro, like mainly what I coach about is is team and leadership and time back. And so yeah, I’m really excited to to kind of see what our coaching relationship will look like. And I’ll be trying to figure that out too, bro.

Marc Hyde 1:09:51

I’m glad so I’m glad you brought that up. We’ll we’ll we’ll talk offline about that of just what that next relationship does look like. Because, you know, like Michael Jordan had a coach, but like you think Michael, I mean, like, let’s just be honest, could could Jackson actually shoot the ball and dunk like MJ? No. But like he was his coach, and same with Michael Phelps. Like, could he swim as fast as Michael Phelps? No, but he still had a coach. Um, not saying that I’m MJ and you’re not. That’s not the not at all what it is, but more just the fact of everybody needs a coach and no one’s above it. And that’s that’s kind of where why I keep sticking here inside of Pro, whereas the fact of I need someone in my corner who knows my finances, who knows my structure, who knows my setup to be like, hey, have you thought about this? Let’s go down that route. And I’m I’m part of other communities where they’re just communities. It’s and if I want access to higher level, sure, I can. But why? Why would I? Like that’s that’s kind of what I keep going back to in different things as well. Because I still have a lot more to learn, and I’m trying to position myself now as just a marketing strategist and be able to bring that into as a part, and web designs are just part of that.

Josh Hall 1:10:53

So yeah, that’s what we’re working toward, man. Heck yeah, dude. Well, I’m glad you said it because that’s absolutely true. The best in the world, the the big key common denominator of every best athlete ever is I had a coach to some degree who was pointing out blind, yeah. The coach could not throw as far as they could or play as well as they could, but they could they spot things. Coaches spot things that, yeah, like you sit back, you know, it’s like some of the stuff I’ve we’ve talked about. You’re like, oh, I duh. Or like, you know, like, yeah, I just needed like, you know. And sometimes minor tweaks are all it needs.

Marc Hyde 1:11:25

Like, yes, I think it was Sue Bird, who her coach said, hey, on a free throw, point your toe a little bit. Like instead of going straight, point your toe just a little bit. And she went from like 75% to 90 something percent on her free throws, just because of a tiny little and that free throw made her millions.

Josh Hall 1:11:38

So yeah. All right, Mark, can’t wait to work on your free free throws next year, man.

Marc Hyde 1:11:42

I knew it was coming, bro. Yeah, dude. And I just want to say, dude, it’s it’s always a pleasure to come here and hop on the pod and just talk because we don’t get to do this as much inside the community. And that’s that’s all right. That’s all right. But I’m always thankful for the opportunity, man. So thank you.

Josh Hall 1:11:54

Well, we’re gonna be opening up the mastermind here in the near future, so we can talk about that. We can do it more and more. Um, yeah, dude, man. You yeah, I just again I just want to publicly say, Mark, dude, freaking pumped for you. So well deserved. Um, so proud as your coach, as your friend. And dude, yeah, you should. I hope you and Beth celebrate this. I feel like you guys should like celebrate this new chapter of the business because it is absolutely what version 3.0? Is that where you’re headed or 4.0?

Marc Hyde 1:12:21

We’re headed to 4.0. 3.0 is really comfortable. 3.0 is really comfortable. 4.0 is actually going to that owner position, that owner seat.

Josh Hall 1:12:31

Dude, congrats, man. Thanks for thanks for sharing everything you did today, dude. Always appreciate it. Awesome. Thanks, Josh. So, again, a huge thanks to Mark

Wrap Up Next Steps And Reviews
Josh Hall 1:12:39

for being totally open about what has worked for him and his business and all the real world life experience here that we were able to learn from in this conversation. And again, I just I really appreciate somebody being so transparent because I know it’s gonna help you and so many other web designers around the world. Guys, it’s totally possible. If you are stuck, even if your range is at 50, maybe you’re stuck at 40 or 50 or whatever it looks like. Maybe you’re stuck at $10,000. Or maybe you’re stuck at $150 and you want $250. The same principles that work for Mark are what can work for you when it comes to building, growing, and scaling your web design agency. Obviously, I’d love to be a part of your journey on a deeper level. Go to WebdesignerPro.com to join me, to join Mark, and to join over 200 Web Designer Pro members in the community and coaching levels who are, yeah, just a bunch of Marks, just a bunch of rock stars who really care about doing good work and love their craft and want to serve their clients and want to build freedom and financial security for them and their families. If that’s you, then you can not even find your tribe, you can join your tribe by going to WebCenterpro.com. So go there if you would like to join me and Mark and be the next. Maybe Mark Hyde success story. Uh the show notes for this one are going to be at joshhall.co slash 440. Again, a big thanks to Termageddon for sponsoring this episode. You can go to joshhall.co slash termageddon to lock in two free licenses to have an auto-updating privacy policy. All right, my friends, thanks so much for joining. I can’t wait to hear from you. Leave a comment if you would on this episode, joshhall.co slash 440. And I haven’t requested this in a while, but I have done a terrible job at asking for podcast reviews. Spot uh Spotify or Apple, if you would be so kind to leave a podcast review. I do read those and it is still appreciated. Please leave a review. Let everyone know what this show means to you. And again, I will be reading those. And uh it really, yeah, it would really help grow the show and it helps me see what uh what’s working for you. All right, friends, have a great time. Have a great rest of the week, depending on when you’re listening to this, uh, or a great weekend. If you’re listening to it while you’re mowing the lawn, I don’t know, but I will see you on the next one.